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Trump On North Korea; President Trump's Resolve; Warning for North Korea. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 17, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 8:00 p.m. in Ancora (ph), 2:00 a.m. Tuesday in Seoul, South Korea. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We start with a warning for North Korea from the U.S. Vice President Mike Pence. During a stop in South Korea and a visit to the demilitarized zone between north and south, the vice president warned the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-Un, not to test the strength of the United States military forces or the resolve of the American president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The era of strategic patience is over. Just in the past two weeks, the world witnessed the strength and resolve of our new president in actions taken in Syria and Afghanistan. North Korea would do well not to test his resolve or the strength of the armed forces of the United States in this region.

We will defeat any attack and we will meet any use of conventional or nuclear weapons with an overwhelming and effective response. But as President Trump made clear just a few short days ago, if China is unable to deal with North Korea, the United States and our allies will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All this comes after more North Korean bluster, another failed missile launch and the threat of new nuclear tests.

Joining us now, our Senior White House Correspondent Jim Acosta. He's on the north lawn of the White House. And our Senior International Correspondent Ivan Watson. He's joining us from Seoul.

Jim, we expect to hear from the White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, that's coming up, his daily briefing in the next hour. What is the White House saying now about the vice president's comments and the continuing threats from North Korea?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what you're hearing is a more muscular posture coming out of this White House right now, Wolf. Take, for example, early this morning on the south lawn of the White House where the president was hosting the Easter egg roll along with the first lady and the rest of the Trump family. I had a quick moment to ask the president what his message was for North Korea and that communist country's dictator, Kim Jong-Un and here's what the president had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Any message for North Korea, sir? Kim Jong-Un?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Got to behave.

ACOSTA: Mr. President, do you think North Korea can be resolved peacefully, sir? What are your thoughts on Kim Jong-Un?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Probably it can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: So, you heard the president there, Wolf, say that they have to behave, they've got to behave, and that he opens that this whole situation can be resolved peacefully.

But what you're hearing from the vice president, Mike Pence, when he was over there in the region as well as other administration officials, is they are saying that this era of what they call strategic patience has ended.

And even though you have a lot of foreign policy thinkers here in Washington, saying, well, you know, perhaps the administration, perhaps the president shouldn't give Kim Jong-Un so much attention. Perhaps they should lower the rhetoric a little bit.

You hear the president say this morning at the East egg roll that Kim Jong-Un and the North Koreans got to behave, that's not exactly toning things down or ignoring the North Korean problem. They are essentially saying, at this point, don't dare us, don't take this risk. You're putting everything at risk if you test the resolve of this administration -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Ivan, you're there in Seoul, South Korea. What's the reaction there in Seoul to what some regard as this increasingly more aggressive U.S. stance towards North Korea?

IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're caught between the regime in North Korea which is unpredictable, which likes to surprise the world with nuclear tests and firing missiles that are banned by the United Nations Security Council, and a young U.S. administration that has also been somewhat unpredictable.

And in some of his statements today here in South Korea, Vice President Pence invoked two attacks within the last two weeks. The cruise missile strike on the Syrian air base and that use of the MOAB, also known as the Mother Of All Bombs, used against a suspected ISIS complex in Eastern Afghanistan. And he argued that those showed American strength and resolve and he warned North Korea not to test that resolve.

So, that was a pretty stark warning linking recent U.S. military actions to North Korea. In the last hour, we've heard from North Korea's ambassador to the U.N. who has fired back and accused U.S. Sabre rattling, as he put it, of raising tensions further on the peninsula. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM IN-RYONG, NORTH KOREAN DEPUTY AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: The United States is disturbing global peace and instability and insisting on the gangster-like logic.

The United States introduced in South Korea the Korean minister, the world biggest hot spot of the huge nuclear strategic asset seriously threatening the peace and security of the peninsula and are pushing the situation there to the brink of war. It has been created a dangerous situation in which the semi-nuclear war may break out at any moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:05:12] WATSON: So, there you have it there. These two sides still kind of threatening each other.

But Vice President Pence did have some other messages here. He talked about commitment to South Korean peace. He talked about the demilitarized zone, describing it as a frontier of freedom. And he also pledged to work in concert with the South Korean government about any steps that the U.S. would take forward.

Wolf, you know well that South Korea perhaps stands to lose the most, if things escalated out of control between these two sides that are still technically at war ever since the Korean war of more than 60 years ago -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, Seoul, where you are, what, only about 30 miles south of the demilitarized zone. Very, very tenuous situation right now.

Ivan Watson, Jim Acosta, guys, thanks very much. CNN's Dana Bash is the only U.S. television reporter, traveling with the vice president, Mike Pence, in South Korea right now.

Here is part of her exclusive conversation that she had with the American vice president while he was visiting the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now, you said that the era of patience, strategic patience, is over. What does that mean in real terms?

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It was the policy of the United States of America, during prior administrations, to practice what they called strategic patience. And that was to hope to marshal international support to bring an end to the nuclear ambitions and the ballistic missile program of North Korea.

That clearly has failed and the advent of nuclear weapons testing, the development of a nuclear program, even this weekend to see another attempt at a ballistic missile launch, all confirms the fact that strategic patience has failed.

BASH: But what does it mean, to end it, in practical terms? It's either use military force or find a diplomatic solution that has eluded owl your predecessors.

PENCE: Well, I think, as the president's made clear, that we're going to abandon the failed policy of strategic patience but we're going to redouble our efforts to bring diplomatic and economic pressure to bear on North Korea.

Our hope is that we can resolve this issue peaceably. And I know the president was heartened by his discussions with President Xi. We've seen China begin to take some actions to bring pressure on North Korea but there needs to be more.

BASH: And, you know, this is real for you. You know, that there are estimates that North Korea could have a missile ready that could hit the continental U.S., Seattle, by 2020, which is going to be on your watch. I mean, is that weighing on you and is that a deadline that you all have in mind?

PENCE: I know the president of the United States has no higher priority than the safety and security of the American people. The president have U.S. forces here in South Korea are a long-standing commitment to the Asian Pacific. And ensuring the security of the continental United States will remain the priority of the administration.

But, look, we want to be clear. Our hope and, frankly, our prayer is that by marshaling the resources of nations across the Asian Pacific, not just South Korea and Japan and other allies and China to bring renewed pressure to bear will achieve our goal of a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula.

But the people in North Korea should make no mistake that the United States of America and our allies will see to the security of this region and see to the security of the people of our country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: All right, let's talk a little bit more about that U.S. strategy that's now emerging toward North Korea. Joining us, our own David Miller. He's a CNN Global Affairs Analyst, was an adviser to several secretaries of state while at the State Department. Colonel Cedric Leighton is a former staff member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and a CNN Military Analyst. And Gloria Borger is CNN's Chief Political Analyst.

Any indication, Gloria, this threat is actually working? Because there was a lot of speculation the North Koreans would actually have another nuclear test over the weekend. They didn't do it. GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, there's no way

to really know, Wolf. There's no way whether they would have had another test and postponed it or never wanted to have another test and were embarrassed by the failure of the last test and didn't want to have another embarrassment. We -- you know, we just don't know.

What I just heard the vice president say, though, to Dana is so interesting to me. Because it's clear to me that he raised the possibility there that the Trump administration, in some way, shape or form, is willing to engage with -- in talks.

[13:10:11] Now, there is -- there is nothing to say that these -- that these talks would work or that you could reach a deal that they could be trusted, in fact. But their other options are so bad, as we all know, that they seem to have, sort of, backed themselves into this corner where, in fact, maybe they have no option left but to try and engage in some way, which, by the way, Donald Trump said he might do during the campaign.

BLITZER: You mean actually start talking --

BORGER: Yes.

BLITZER: -- indirectly or directly --

BORGER: Exactly.

BLITZER: -- with the North.

BORGER: Exactly.

BLITZER: Is there, Cedric, really a military option? When they say all options are on the table, what's the military option that won't cause a disaster for millions of people in South Korea 30 miles away from the demilitarized zone?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Wolf, the options are all bad and that's one of the real problems. There are military options that could be used. Some of them at a very high level with a lot of different --

BLITZER: Millions of people would die.

LEIGHTON: That's the problem. And that's why you don't want to provoke the north in that way. However, there are cyber options. There is electronic warfare. There are special operations missions. All of those could be used. The question is will they use them and would they want to use them in any of the scenarios that we can postulate right now?

BLITZER: Because, right now, even in terms of the conventional threat from North Korea against South Korea, all the artillery pieces, the missile, conventional weapons, they could destroy Seoul, basically, within a matter of a few days.

LEIGHTON: That's right. And, of course, we wouldn't let that go unchallenged. I mean, American air power would be brought to bear on those targets. The operations plan is called 5027 is the one that is actually used to go after North Korea. And, basically, what it calls for is a lot of sustained attacks if there are things that happen like an artillery barrage on Seoul.

BLITZER: Yes. And let's not forget, there are 28,000 military personal along the demilitarized zone as well, right in the hot spot.

So, let's talk diplomacy, Aaron. You worked at the State Department for a long time. Is there a significant diplomatic option that would avoid what they say the abandonment of this policy of strategic patience?

AARON DAVID MILLER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, as a departure point, you know, Churchill was right. Jaw-jaw is better than war-war. And the fact is there is no agreed instinct. We're not going to denuclearize the Korean Peninsula anytime soon

I think the only -- well, the fault position is a freeze. A freeze on development of new fissile material, a freeze on testing, a freeze on the export of North Korean component parts abroad. And a freeze might actually work as an interim accord, you build confidence and trust.

The question is whether you can create a channel and that, I think, is the real challenge for the administration. Talks about talks. Authorized at a very high-level secret in order to test the proposition that, in fact, we're in the same universe here. And that is risky. As Gloria knows, it's risky politically. It's risky because our experience with North Koreans have been fraught with deception. You're dealing with, literally, a criminal family regime that has immunized itself against pressure.

So, yes, I think it's worth a turn of the wheel before we go to what the vice president had, at least, intimated is possible which is preemptive for preventable military.

BORGER: And also so unpredictable. I mean, you know, the question is if you want to have talks about talks, as you put it, and which seems to be to be a realistic or possible scenario, let me put it that way. How could you trust anything, you know, that you even agreed to in a preliminary way? As Ronald Reagan always said, you know, trust but verify. Well, how would you even begin to do that with this family?

MILLER: I mean, I wasn't a great advocate of the JCPOA with Iran. It had all kinds of imperfections. But you'd have to bring the IAEA in. You'd have to impose reliability monitoring and verification standards. It's all the question of whether or not you're prepared to confront the alternative which is a preemptive preventative strike1 which is likely to lead to war on the Korean Peninsula. Now, who's willing to run that risk? 13 presidents have now dealt with the challenge on the peninsula. Three on the nuclear issue.

So, the question is, Mr. Trump who treated I think during the campaign, Gloria, that he could solve this with Kim Jong-Un over a hamburger. BORGER: Yes. I don't think so.

MILLER: You know, I mean, --

BLITZER: Well, the key is really China right now that they have the leverage. They have the ability to do something if they really want to do it. Will they?

LEIGHTON: Well, that's, I think, the big question because when you look at the Chinese role, it's fraught with history. You have the Chinese really the reason the North Korean state exists right now. They came in. The intervened. They famously prevented McArthur from keeping his positions along the Yalu River in the Korean War.

[13:15:03] And the fact that they drove U.S. and the United Nations forces back in the 1950s means that the Kim regime was able to maintain its base of power. And they have that, just like we worry about our veterans, they worry about their veterans from that period. So there is that emotional piece.

But the other part of it is, the Chinese are beginning to do some movement here that I think is very different from what you normally would have seen them do. And there may be some hope in that as well. So leveraging the Chinese is certainly another avenue that should be pursued.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: And we see it clearly the president is trying to do that when he suddenly has decided that China is not a currency manipulator anymore because, as he put it I think in a tweet, they're helping us. They're helping us now.

BLITZER: All right, guys, don't go too far away. There's more to come up. Gloria, Cedric and Aaron, they will be back.

Also coming up, Vice President Pence puts North Korea on notice, warning them not to test the president's resolve. Democratic congressman and senior member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Gregory Meeks, he has a lot to say on this. He's standing by to join us live right after the break.

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BLITZER: All right, so we heard the tough talk from the vice president, Mike Pence, on North Korea, threating the North Korean leader to not test the resolve of the new American president or the strength of the United States military.

[13:20:08] Joining us now from New York, Congressman Gregory Meeks. He's a Democrat from New York and a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D), NEW YORK: Good being with you, Wolf. BLITZER: So what do you think of the tough words from Vice President

Pence, the warnings to North Korea?

MEEKS: So I think that those words, you know, they have consequences. All words do. Wolf, I just came back from South Korea. Just came back yesterday. And what the South Koreans are concerned about is not having an absolute dialogue with the United States and having a preemptive strike that could kill 25 million South Koreans, as well as the Japanese, and (ph) Japan on this trip also, who are in the direct path. In fact, they were talking about it would take about four minutes to strike South Korea and about 11 minutes to strike Japan. So we've got to make sure that we're working closely with South Korea and Japan and, of course, as you indicated in the last segment, China, who is actually utilizing North Korea in my estimation as a buffer because they have their interest in East Asia also. And so just as, you know, they're concerned in South Korea, as well as in Japan, when the president says America first, does that mean without our allies? Does it mean with our allies? Does it mean that if the allies say don't strike or do strike will we listen? What does that mean? And China it has its interest in the region. It is a - as indicated, it's a complicated scenario that's going to need a strategy and what we're not hearing from this president is what that strategy is. And that's why I -

BLITZER: He does seem - he does - congressmen, he does seem to be warming up to the Chinese. No longer ready to declare them a currency manipulator on day one as he often said during the campaign. He's hoping that China, which you correctly point out, does have leverage, does have influence on Pyongyang. They use that to calm things down. What's wrong with that strategy?

MEEKS: Well, China does have leverage. There's no question about China is the one that does have leverage on North Korea. But China's going to want something other - also and then they're going to want more than just not being called a money manipulator. You know, China does not want the strong presence that the United States has in the region. And there's going to have to be some dialogue there because our other allies, Japan and South Korea, will want the United States to stay in that area. That's the whole fight about the South China Sea.

It is a deeper conversation that just North Korea when you're talking on the Chinese. And so even talking to the Chinese is much more complicated than say hey, just do what we tell you do, help us with North Korea, or we're going to do it ourselves. That's not going to work with China.

BLITZER: Well -

MEEKS: You're going to have to sit down and negotiate a real deal with China.

BLITZER: Congressman, what about U.S. military operations or action against North Korea when the - when the administration says all options are on the table, they mean the military option as well. Would you support any military action against North Korea and its nuclear threat? MEEKS: What I would want is the president of the United States to come

back to Congress and then tell us what that strategy is. Do I support a preemptive strike from what I've seen on the ground? No, I don't think that a preemptive strike would be the one to do, no with reference to our allies that are on the ground. But I do tell you, Wolf, while I was in South Korea, I did meet with General Brooks, who is in charge of the area in the peninsula and I have great confidence in General Brooks. And I think that what they're talking about or what they explained to me is, yes, all options are on the table and they are preparing for anything that if there was an initial attack by the North Koreans, then, yes, we are ready to do what we need to do immediately.

But, of course, the ideal is not to have a war on the Korean Peninsula. The idea would be to try to sit down with our allies, North - South Korea and Japan, along with China, and work it among ourselves to put the pressure on North Korea so that we can try to have a diplomatic result here.

And it's important also what was clearly missing in my trip was the fact that we don't have an ambassador on the ground. I think that if we want to work with a - get a diplomatic solution here, we need an ambassador on the ground who can better give information to the president of the United States, as well as working with both the Japanese, the South Koreans and the Chinese on the ground in east Asia.

BLITZER: I assume you met with South Korean officials, South Korean leaders. Did you get the sense they have confidence in President Trump's new tragedy moving away from that strategy of - that used to be called strategic patience?

MEEKS: No, they're nervous because they don't need a preemptive strike that could cause them to get hit within the next four to five minutes and lose 25,000 - 25 million people. They understand that if the crazy guy in North Korea did something preemptively, we will wipe him out. But that still does not mean that we want to sacrifice 25 million South Koreans, as well as our troops that are on the ground.

[13:25:24] So they would - they want to work it out. They want to have dialogue and conversation and figure this thing out collectively together and to make sure that we're sharing intelligence and can move as a group. They are concerned about the words. That's why words are always important when it comes out of the president's words, what they mean. And when you use the kind of language that the president and the vice president have recently utilized, then they are saying, well, what about South Korea? What does that mean to us? You know, and that's why that conversation has to be had and why the president has to come back to Congress also because we do have a checks and balance. The Constitution demands that. That we should have this debate in talking about what should or should not do when we're going to put our men and women on the front lines here.

BLITZER: Congressman Gregory Meeks, thanks so much for joining us.

MEEKS: Good to be with you, Wolf. BLITZER: Up next, did Vice President Pence hint of possible military

action if North Korea moved forward with its nuclear test? We'll discuss that and more. Republican congressman, former U.S. Marine, Duncan Hunter, he's standing by live. We'll get his perspective.

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