Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Pence: The Strategy Of "Strategic Patience" Is Over With North Korea; Turkish President Wins Vote To Expands His Powers; White House Briefing To Hold Briefing Amid Rising Tensions With North Korea; Trump To CNN On North Korea: They "Got To Behave". Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired April 17, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:54] WOLF BLITZER, CNN THE SITUATION ROOM ANCHOR: We're continuing to follow the very tense developments involving North Korea. On his trip to South Korea, U.S. Vice President Mike Pence visited the demilitarized zone and warned North Korea that the strategy of strategic patience was now over, at least, from the U.S. perspective. The U.S. is also sending a carrier-led navy strike group out to the waters off the Korean peninsula.

Let's bring in Congressman Duncan Hunter to talk a little bit more about all of this. He's a republican from California, member of the Armed Services Committee, served with the U.S. Marine Corps in Afghanistan and Iraq. Congressman, thanks for joining us.

DUNCAN HUNTER, UNITED STATES CONGRESSMAN FROM CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: President Trump has said military action is a possibility. All options are on the table if North Korea conducts another nuclear test. Would you support U.S. military action against North Korea?

HUNTER: Yes. And for one reason, this is a decision that's going to be made by the President, H.R. McMaster, General Dunford, the chairman of the joint chiefs, and Secretary Mattis. If you -- if you can't trust those group of people coming to a decision, then there's nobody in the U.S. you can trust with our U.S. military. So, if they decide that, then I will support that.

BLITZER: But even if there's a limited military U.S. strike, Congressman, you know what the capabilities of North Korea are. Not just -- forget about their nuclear bombs and they have at least half a dozen, maybe more, that could kill millions of people. But just in terms of their conventional capability, thousands and thousands of artillery pieces, missile launchers, just north of the demilitarized zone, a million North Korean troops facing what nearly a million South Korean troops, 28,000 U.S. troops in between Seoul, a city of 15 million people, 30 miles from the demilitarized zone. You know the slaughter that could develop.

HUNTER: Yes. I mean, you would have tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people dead immediately. I mean, that's -- I understand that.

(CROSSTALK) BLITZER: Including almost 30,000 -- including almost 30,000 American soldiers and marines and sailors and airmen, they would almost certainly be killed within a few days.

HUNTER: I wouldn't necessarily say that, Wolf, but, yes, you are -- you are talking massive conventional warfare of the like we haven't seen in decades, right? So, I think that President Trump understands that. I think that McMaster and Dunford and Mattis also understand that. I mean, that's -- they have to take all of that into account. You know, but what are your other options? China said it's going to stop coal from coming in from North Korea. They didn't kind of went back on that. We have proof that they allowed North Korean coal exports.

China supposedly put 150,000 Chinese military people on the border of North Korea. It hasn't been totally verified yet. What if -- what if Japan looked to this and said, "We have to go nuclear now." I think the main question we have to -- we have to ask ourselves is, does Kim Jong-un, like his caviar, his wine and his women, or is he suicidal? And I think it's the former. I think he likes being a dictator that lives in a nice mansion and enjoys his life and can show up at these big military parades and look menacing, but he also understands what the U.S. could choose to do if he provokes us.

BLITZER: But let's just be precise. Let's say they do have another -- their sixth nuclear test. They've already had five. Let's say they had their sixth. We were bracing for that over the weekend. They didn't do that. They had a failed ballistic missile launch following their big parade and all of that. But let's say they do have a sixth nuclear test. What are you saying, the United States should immediately respond with a preemptive military strike? Am I -- am I hearing that from you?

HUNTER: No. You're -- what I say is let's trust the military guys that know more on the ground than I do. And again, that's the National Security Adviser, the chairman of joint chiefs, and our Secretary of Defense, they know what's going on, Wolf. I don't know what's going on. Meaning, I haven't -- I haven't been, you know, briefed at the super top secret level on what's happening on the ground right now in North Korea. But those guys have. So, if they decide that that underground nuclear test is worth a preemptive strike, then yes, I would support that.

[13:35:16] BLITZER: But don't you think Congress should be involved in all of this? Doesn't Congress -- and you're a member of Congress -- have a role if the United States is about to go to war, and as you describe it, this is a war that we have -- that we haven't seen since World War II.

HUNTER: Yes, but if you've got to move decisively and Trump doesn't want to show his hand, you know, you've heard this over and over, President Trump is not going to show the enemy what we're going to do. He's not going to talk about it. He's not going to --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: But Congress is not -- Congress is not -- Congress is not the enemy. Congress is not the enemy.

HUNTER: That's true, but he can come to us secretly and that would be leaked within minutes, if not live leaked as we get that secret briefing as you know. So, no, if there is a nuclear test and the President decides to act immediately and not fly Congress back to Washington from their districts and say let's have a big council on this and try to pass an authorization of use of military force or declare war on North Korea, I would support them acting -- I mean, our government acting immediately to respond to a nuclear military test if they chose to do so without consulting Congress first.

BLITZER: So, Congressman Hunter, let's just talk a little bit about a nuclear test. Why would a sixth nuclear test on the part of the North Koreans justify this kind of war?

HUNTER: Because they're trying to miniaturize nuclear warheads, so they can hit Japan, so they can hit South Korea, so they can put nuclear weapons on artillery shells, because right now, as you said, it would be a big conventional war between North and South Korea. We don't think that they have the ability right now to nuclearize artillery shells. If they get that, you would -- you would see millions more in terms of casualties in South Korea if the North Koreans were able to do that.

So, I mean, every nuclear underground test that North Korea makes, they're making their explosives and their nuclear devices better and better and better in trying to miniaturize them. You have to stop that at some point because there is a red line at some point. And only the guys that know the top secret information of what's going on on the ground right now, they're the ones who understand how close we are to that red line.

BLITZER: Congressman Duncan Hunter, a very ominous picture that you paint right now. But this is a tense situation, and we do know that President Obama told the incoming President, President Trump, when they met near the end of the Obama administration that the North Korean threat does, in fact, represent the major national security threat facing the United States.

Congressman Duncan Hunter of California, thanks for joining us.

HUNTER: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Still ahead, Turkey's referendum. It expands the president's power. But, how much is too much? We're going live to the region. Lots at stake when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:42:30] BLITZER: There was a seismic shift in Turkish politics over the weekend. The president, President Erdogan is claiming a victory in a referendum to grant him expansive new powers that then spawned celebrations and protests across the country. Opposition groups have already said they will challenge the outcome.

Let's go to our Senior International Correspondent Nick Paton Walsh who's joining us right now. Nick, how will the president's powers be expanded?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE) civic changes to the constitution, but the key one really is they're getting rid of the post prime minister. So, effective he as President becomes the most important executive figure in the country, able to appoint judges, the cabinet by himself, the powers of parliament are reduced. And really, this is sort of capitalizing upon a growing sense in the past few years. Recep Tayyip Erdogan apart from being what's supposed to be nominally the president, which is kind of a symbolic figure is now the most preeminent figure in Turkish politics in the law as opposed to just in practice.

Now, of course, we've seen a very slender victory here, 51.4 percent voting yes. Frankly, the three biggest cities voted no, so there's a clear split between countryside and urban elites here in how these votes played out. As you say, it will perhaps be contested in the courts.

European monitors, the OSCE have said there was an unleveled playing field in how this whole referendum was portrayed in the media. A lot of which is very state loyal, but those complaints have been dismissed by President Erdogan as from a group that, "know their place". So, he's very strident. And I have to tell you, Wolf, a few years ago this NATO member, NATO ally was a pretty much healthy democracy on the edge of the Middle East but set with problems from neighboring Syria but in a good place. It's radically changed in the past years. Now, it has a civil war with Kurds inside its borders and it's drawn militarily into Syria. And President Erdogan saying he needs these powers to keep the country together, but really, it does so much feel like the political climate in that country has changed significantly, Wolf.

BLITZER: And as you point out, Turkey is a member of NATO. So, how is it going to affect their relationship with the 27 other NATO allies, especially the United States? Many of them are not very happy with what's going on in Turkey right now.

WALSH: There's a feeling, I think, among most of them that they saw this coming to some degree, and they've seen Erdogan slide towards authoritarianism. And his treatment to the media, many journalists in jail at times more than anywhere else in the world.

[13:44:57] But a key moment in the last few hours has caused some European potential allies to voice concerns. If he wants to join the E.U. it's a pretty long shot, but it's a possibility. And that's Erdogan's comments about reinstating the death penalty, which he said he might possibly do. That's really got a raw nerve with the German leader, Angela Merkel, with France as well. These are countries that need Turkey's assistance when dealing with refugee issues across all of Europe getting Syrians to some degree back to closer towards the Syrian borders. But this slide towards authoritarianism is something many have been seeing in the past years, now, it's basically clear on paper. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right. Nick, thank you. Nick Paton Walsh joining us live from Erbil in Northern Iraq. The era of strategic patience is over. That was the warning from the Vice President Mike Pence to North Korea today. So, what is the White House's strategy on dealing with Kim Jong-un? That topic will certainly be discussed at the White House press briefing. That's scheduled to begin momentarily. We'll go there live once Sean Spicer, the White House Press Secretary, shows up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:50:03] BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) live pictures are coming in from the White House briefing room, expecting to hear from the Press Secretary Sean Spicer. He's expected to take to the podium right at the top of the hour. We'll have live coverage of that. Lots of questions for Sean Spicer today.

Meanwhile, our Senior White House Correspondent, Jim Acosta, he actually had a chance to catch up with Sean Spicer at the White House egg roll on the South Lawn of the White House. He began by asking him about the currently very dangerous situation with North Korea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: China cannot get North Korea to behave. Is the president going to regret some of these carrots he's been offering them lately?

SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No, I think -- look, we're going to do everything we can to do -- to protect our country, to protect the region. As I said, a nuclear North Korea is not in anybody's best interest, so we're going to apply all the diplomatic, economic, and political pressure through the entire world community to avoid that situation.

ACOSTA: Does he sort of let China off the hook?

SPICER: No, I won't say he let them off the hook. He understands that they can play a very important role in making our world safer and we're going to utilize the relationships that he's built with President Xi.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Jim also asked Sean Spicer on a very, very different note about the 138th White House egg roll with thousands attending. There were concerns about the preparations for the event.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SPICER: The First Lady and her team have really worked for months now getting the place ready, bringing all these experiences here to the White House.

ACOSTA: Were there any worries ever that this was not going to get pulled off?

SPICER: I think if you know the First Lady, you'd know you have no worries that that's going to happen. She took this charge very seriously, worked very diligently with the team to make sure that it was a great day for so many of the families that have traveled throughout the country to be here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And Jim Acosta's interview with Sean Spicer, of course, wouldn't be complete unless he asks Spicer about the latest "Saturday Night Live" skit with Melissa McCarthy reprising her role.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: What do you think about when you see Melissa mccarthy doing these skits?

SPICER: I'm usually (INAUDIBLE) fast asleep by the time that comes on.

ACOSTA: You and me both.

SPICER: So, not only if we've the same age, we probably go to bed around the same time. So, I'm in bed, get up, go to church the next day and look ahead.

ACOSTA: But you have fun with it, right? I mean, you enjoyed --

SPICER: I -- my focus is on events and president's agenda and his policies. And, you know, we live in a great world that people can say and do what they want because of the First Amendment and that's what makes this such a great country.

ACOSTA: I mean, I get made fun of, too. I mean, it happens all the time.

SPICER: Well, you know, maybe more deserved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: They had a good laugh. The Press Secretary Sean Spicer, once again, he will be taking to the lectern momentarily. We'll have live coverage of that once it begins. There you're seeing some live pictures. We'll take a quick break. Much more of our coverage, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:57:10] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Here we go. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me on this Monday. At any moment now, the White House press briefing will begin.

Just as the vice president declares the end of, quote, "the failed policy of strategic patience in North Korea," and the vice president saying that standing mere feet from the demilitarized zone, the DMZ there that criss-crosses between North and South Korea. The tensions there are at a boiling point after North Korea launched a missile, Sunday, from the port city of Sinpo. It failed. We should mention, four to five seconds after that initial attempt, but no question if and other missile launches have made a lasting impression on the Trump White House.

So, as we wait to see the Press Secretary there, Sean Spicer, brief reporters including our own Jim Acosta, there he is, watching and waiting. Jim Acosta, you're with me now.

ACOSTA: Hi, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's just begin with - let's begin with that conversation you kind of sort of had with the president there at the Easter egg roll. You were shouting that question on North Korea and I believe his response was two words? You tell me.

ACOSTA: That's right. When in doubt, Brooke, shout a question. Words I live by. We are at the Easter egg roll this morning on the South Lawn of the White House. I would describe it as a conversation, it was a very lengthy exchange with the president, but had a few moments there just to throw a question at the president as to what his message would be for North Korea, and he essentially said that the North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un should behave himself and cut it out. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Any message for North Korea, Sir? Kim Jong-un?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Behave.

ACOSTA: Mr. President, do you think North Korea can be resolved peacefully, sir? What are your thoughts on Kim Jong-un?

TRUMP: Probably, it can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: So, there you have it, Brooke. At a time, when there's some people here in Washington wringing their hands and say, "You know, the president probably shouldn't be giving this much attention to North Korea. He shouldn't be ratcheting up the rhetoric with North Korea." There you heard it on the South Lawn of the White House during the White House Easter egg roll. On that day of all days, he's saying that the North Koreans got to behave, in his words there.

And so I think that that is another indication and you're hearing that from other administration officials, Vice President Pence, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and on and on saying, as you were just saying a few moments ago that this era, this policy of strategic patience is going to come to an end. Now, what does that mean? You know, what does that entail? Does that entail some kind of military promise of a response down the road if the North Korean somehow cross a line? That's very unclear at this point. And I suspect that that will be part of the line of questioning here at the briefing today with Sean Spicer.

BALDWIN: All right. Jim, standby. We'll be listening to the briefing momentarily. As we watch and wait, let me bring in a couple of other voices a bit. Shelby Holliday and David Drucker here to my right, so I'm going to pick on the two of you since you're closest to me. Just on the rhetoric, not just even from - and I was being semi (INAUDIBLE). It wasn't a conversation, (INAUDIBLE) just said, "Got to behave." Right, about North Korea to Jim Acosta.