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U.S. Intercepts Russian Bombers Off Alaskan Coast; Pence: "Encouraging" North Korea Getting The Message; Trump Rebuffs Latest Calls To Release Tax Returns; Trump Administration's Mixed Messages To Turkey; Trump Congratulates Turkish Pres. After Controversial Vote; Trump To Sign "Buy American, Hire American" Order Today. Aired 1:30- 2p ET

Aired April 18, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:36] WOLF BLITZER, CNN THE SITUATION ROOM ANCHOR: CNN has learned that U.S. Air Force fighter jets intercepted two Russian bombers off the coast of Alaska. The U.S. says the intercept took place at international airspace yesterday. They say it was safe and professional. Illinois Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger is a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. He's joining us from Ottawa, Illinois; serves in the U.S. Air Force right now. The reserve served in Iraq and Afghanistan. What do you make of this development? A statement from the North American command saying two Russian Tu-95 bear bombers were intercepted off the coast of Alaska on Monday by two U.S. F-22 fighter jets. The fighter jets were scrambled by NORAD. The intercept took place in international airspace. Walk us through what all this means, especially at such a sensitive time right now, Congressman.

ADAM KINZINGER, UNITED STATES CONGRESSMAN FROM ILLINOIS AND HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS MEMBER: So, this is -- well, so this is basically, you know, I hate to admit it, I hate to say it, but it's almost a rejuvenation of the Cold War, and, you know, not where we have thousands of nukes pointed at each other on a hair trigger, but this is a show of force by the Russians to show they're still here, they're still operating, this is what they used to do back in the day. And there's a lot of benefits to them doing it. They can see what our air defenses do. They can map out how our intercepts occur. You know, this is the Russians trying to bear their teeth, trying to show their teeth. And I think the thing that Americans need to keep in mind is, look, you know, Russia is an adversary. It's an adversary we need to be very concerned about, and pushing them back in areas. But, the Russian military is totally incapable compared to the United States military. This is not like it was back in the Cold War where you have equally matched forces.

BLITZER: So, what you're suggesting, Congressman, and you served in the U.S. Air Force, this was not a mistake by those Russian pilots of those two Tu-95 bear bombers that they inadvertently got pretty close to the Alaska coastline in international waters. This was some sort of deliberate Russian provocation? Is that what you're seeing to -- saying, to test the U.S. ability to deal with that?

KINZINGER: Yes. I mean, it's -- if this was a mistake, they were way off and they had huge navigational failures. But I'm sure it was not a mistake. This was an attempt to come up as close as they could to our international border to see what our reaction would be to show Americans that the, you know, the Russians are still there and operating. It's like when we see Russian, you know, MIGs buzz our destroyers in the ocean and buzz our carriers. This is part of their show of force. And, you know, this is -- it's understandable to an extent that this used to happen during the Cold War, but this is like a rejuvenation from their end of the Cold War. And what I worry about is somebody, somewhere, a pilot on their side is going to make a mistake, get too close and we'll end up with a bit of a shooting conflict which we do not want.

BLITZER: Yes, Adam, that's a good point. And it comes at a very tense time, internationally, as far as national security is concerned. North Korea, as you know, the Vice President Mike Pence says that it's encouraging that North Korea appears to be (AUDIO GAP) the message (AUDIO GAP) stopping its nuclear threats, its nuclear activities. The Vice President says, "All options are on the table when it comes to North Korea." What does that mean to you? Realistically, what are those options?

KINZINGER: Well, I think -- I think the last option, but an option before a North Korea marries a nuclear warhead to a -- to a missile that can reach United States. The one right before that, the next to the worst option is a preemptive strike against their nuclear facilities. And we know that's going to probably lead to a broader war, so we don't want to get there. But this is a really complicated maneuver going on. So, you have three instruments of power that the U.S. has at play. You have an economic, a military and a diplomatic instrument of power.

In order to have a credible diplomacy with an adversary, you have to back that up with the threat, a credible threat of military force as well as the ability to use your economic instrument of power. That's where you can sanction banks in China that do business with North Korea. That's where you can compel the (AUDIO GAP) some of these economic issues to say it is in your interest to hold, to rein in North Korea. It's in your economic interest to do it. So, this is a very complicated dance of international foreign policy at play. But I think this is the right move and it's -- I know it's scary and it's getting a lot of attention but the scariest thing is we wake up and find out that North Korea has the ability to strike America with nukes.

[13:35:00] BLITZER: One final question before I let you go, totally unrelated to all the national security threats that are out there, today's tax day here in the United States. We have yet to see as you well know President Trump's tax returns for any, let alone this year or recent years, the White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said yesterday that he could not say if the President would ever release those tax returns. Is that

distracting from issues like tax reform? He says a major issue on his agenda is major tax cuts, tax reform in the house. Where do you stand as far as the president releasing his tax returns?

KINZINGER: Well, I think he should. You know, we have a tradition in this country of seeing what the interest, the business interest, the financial interest of the person leading the free world is. And I think this has been a distraction to him. The vast majority of Americans want them released, even though it doesn't rank necessarily in their highest priority area. I think it would be in the president's benefit to release them, and I think as the American people, we want to see that. So, I would call on him to release them, and I think it's just the right thing to do.

BLITZER: Yes, yesterday I spoke with one of your republican colleagues, Congressman Ted Yoho. He agrees with you. He thinks it's the right thing to do as well. So, not just democrats criticizing the president on this, but increasingly republicans as well. Congressman, thanks for joining us.

KINZINGER: You bet. Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Adam Kinzinger of Illinois. Up next, Turkey's controversial referendum. President Trump calls the Turkish President to congratulate him on the result, but the State Department wasn't necessarily all that cordial. The administration's mixed messages, that's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:40:57] BLITZER: The Trump administration is sending mixed messages about the outcome of Turkey's referendum. The controversial vote grants the President Erdogan expansive and largely unchecked powers. In a preliminary report, international election observers criticized the measures saying the vote took place on an unlevel playing field with the Yes campaign dominating media coverage. The State Department here in Washington citing those concerns added, and I'm quoting now, "We looked to the government of Turkey to protect the fundamental rights of freedoms of all its citizens regardless of their vote on April 16th."

And stark contrast, the White House says President Trump called the leader of Turkey to offer congratulations but did not raise concerns about the referendum the way it was conducted. In an exclusive interview with CNN's Becky Anderson, the Turkish President spoke about the call from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, TURKISH PRESIDENT (through translator): He congratulated me for the outcome and we talked about our relationship in the forthcoming period. He shared with me his views about that and about Syria. It would be better to have a face-to-face meeting and to take ahead -- take forward our relationship in matters about Syria, and we've agreed that we will have that meeting in due course.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's discuss this and more with our CNN military and diplomatic analyst, retired Admiral John Kirby, served as the spokesman for both the State Department and the Pentagon under President Obama. The messages from the State Department and the White House as far as the Erdogan win seemed to be very different. JOHN KIRBY, CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST AND FORMER SPOKESMAN

FOR THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND PENTAGON: You know, they were. I think it's indicative of the State Department and the White House that aren't on the same page and aren't necessarily communicating. What was interesting was the call came after the State Department's statement was already released and it's not clear to me that there was any coordination about the call itself with the State Department about what was going to be transmitted and what opportunities the president had when he made that call to points that he could make.

BLITZER: It's a serious issue right now. Then, Turkey as you know is a NATO ally, but there's enormous concern among so many of the other NATO allies about what's going on inside Turkey right now.

KIRBY: Yes. And those concerns are well-founded. I mean, look, this is a -- this is an administration, the Erdogan administration that has been brutal in its crackdown on free press, jailing thousands of journalists as well as tens of thousands of former employees of the government. They've been -- it's virtually been a crackdown. And for us to never take an opportunity to talk to him about the health of their democracy, I think, is a mistake. Look, international relations don't have to be binary. And you can still have a healthy conversation with a country that is cooperating with you against ISIS and Turkey is, and still at the same time, say look, we are -- we have legitimate concerns about how this referendum was conducted and about the pace and -- of human rights in your country.

BLITZER: Let me get a quick reaction to what the Secretary of Homeland Security John Kelly said in an event here today. He was talking about the United States being a nation under attack from cyber threats, drugs, and terrorism. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KELLY, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: And as a coalition we lead wins against what are best described as conventional terrorist formations in the caliphate, the expectations that many of these holy warriors will survive, come back to their home countries where they will wreak murderous havoc in Europe, Asia, the Maghreb, the Caribbean, and the United States.

And because many citizens of countries in our Visa waiver program countries, they can more easily travel to the United States which makes us and continues to make us the prime terrorist target.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is the United States the prime terrorist target right now?

[13:44:44] KIRBY: We are certainly a target for terrorist groups. There's no question about that. And I would be anything less than honest if I didn't say that. So are other western countries. I mean, the whole basis for this jihadist fight is to pushback against western liberal values. So, yes, we are a target. But, I also think it's important to note that we have had and continue to have in place very strong vetting, very strong intelligence coordination, very strong defense relationships around the world that help insulate us somewhat. It doesn't mean you're going to get a perfect insulation. And these terrorists only have to be right once, we have to be right 365 days a year, I understand that. But, yes, we're a target and yes, I think the previous administration, as well as this administration, are taking that threat seriously.

BLITZER: Let me get your quick reaction on this other breaking story that we're working. The North American command just reporting that two Russian Tu-95 bear bombers were intercepted off the coast of Alaska on Monday by two U.S. Air Force F-22 fighter jets. The fighter jets, according to the statement were scrambled by NORAD. The intercept took place in international air space. It was a safe and professional intercept. But you heard Congressman Kinzinger himself in the United States Air Force Reserves saying that this is not an accident. The Russians are deliberately doing something to test the U.S. at a dangerous moment internationally. How concerning is this development?

KIRBY: Well, look, they have been doing this. This isn't new. The last time I think that we intercept - that we had an intercept like this was a couple years ago. So it's a little fresh in that regard. I don't think -- I think you got to be careful not to make too much of it. I mean, it was in international air space. It was a safe professional intercept. They do it to us when we conduct these kinds of flights. I mean, this is -- they're constantly going to prod and poke and try to see what they can get away with, but this wasn't at all something that I think should raise too many hackles here. It was safe, it was professional, something we've seen before, and the good news is - look, it happened in international air space and our air force did respond and did intercept.

BLITZER: And it is, sort of -- as he says, Kinzinger, it sort of reminiscent of the battle days of the cold war when these kinds of events were taking place a lot more routinely.

KIRBY: Well, certainly, Russia, you know, has more expansive ideology and they are -- is certainly going to try to test the west as best they can. But this, I don't think rises to the level of calling it a new cold war.

BLITZER: OK. All right. Thanks very much, John Kirby, our diplomatic and military analyst. Take a look at this. We're getting some live pictures in from Kenosha, Wisconsin right now. President Trump will arrive there. We're told very soon to speak and sign an executive order aimed at bolstering his "Hire America first campaign pledge." How much of an impact can it have on creating saving American jobs? I'll ask his former economic adviser to size it up when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:51:29] BLITZER: We're getting some live pictures coming in right now from Kenosha, Wisconsin. Soon, President Trump will be touring the Snap-on Tools headquarters there. The president will also sign an executive order directing federal agencies to move forward on the "Buy American, hire American" theme, and will call for a review of the H1-B worker Visa programs. Those were all cornerstones of the Trump presidential campaign.

Joining us right now is Stephen Moore, he's a CNN Economics Analyst and former senior economic adviser on the Trump campaign. Thanks very much, Stephen, for joining us. Do you support this "hire American, buy American" program? Because, you know, a lot of economists think it's a sort of a hidden tax on the middleclass, the working class of America because all sorts of products, all of a sudden, it would be much more expensive.

STEPHEN MOORE, CNN ECONOMICS ANALYST: Well, look, you know, there's a reason that Donald Trump is in Wisconsin today. That was a state that went for Trump, surprisingly. Trump does believe that he owes those Midwestern states, those industrial states. So, the idea of a buy -- look, you can take this two power but the idea - look, if you got two offers, same time, you know, do it with the American company, not the Chinese company or the Mexican company. I think it makes sense.

By the way, the best way -- I've told Donald Trump this many times -- the best way to get companies to buy America, reduce the taxes here, reduce the regulations, a lot of those companies will come back and create jobs. I do not agree with them on this cap on the H1-B Visas. These are high technology brainiacs who are needed in Silicon Valley's, they're engineers, they're physicists, they're chemists, top of the profession. You know, when I talked to a lot of the employers around the country, they say "We can't get enough." You know, we need the people who are really smart and brilliant -- by the way, this actually ends up creating more jobs for Americans than when they can't get the workers they need.

BLITZER: So, if the order goes out to federal agencies to buy American, but what if the cost is so much more expensive to buy American steel, for example, than to buy steel from another country? That's going to simply raise the deficit.

MOORE: That's right. Yes, that's right. And so, that's why you can take this two-power. You know, look, within 5 or 10 percent of the cost, maybe you want to buy the American, but you're right. If something can be produced in another country for 30 or 40 percent less, then who's going to bear the burden of that higher cost? It's the American taxpayer. You're right. So, I don't -- I don't -- I think you can take "Buy America" too far. But I do think given the fact that we have so many Americans that are unemployed, and a lot of factories that are closing down, this is a way to save American jobs potentially.

BLITZER: And if you go -- step too far with the "Buy American", only if you will, a lot of middle class families, working class families, they're going to go to Walmart. They're going to buy school supplies for their kids but if it's -- has to be made in the United States, it's going to be a lot more expensive than if it's imported from another country where it could be made a lot cheaper.

MOORE: Well -- but I don't think that's what Donald Trump is talking about here. He's talking --

BLITZER: He's not talking about that. I'm just talking about the "Buy American, Hire American". That whole theme, if it goes forward, it's going to -- it could be wind up being a lot more expensive.

MOORE: It could be in higher prices to people, no question about it. But you know what?

BLITZER: If you are buying clothes for your kids, for example, if you only buy clothes for your kids made in America, which is a nice thing to say, obviously, but it's going to be more expensive.

MOORE: It is, but, you know, I believe that's every American's choice. I try to buy American. You know, if it's --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: But you can afford it.

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: But a lot Americans think, you know, if it's a choice between, you know, and they are both, you know, priced near each other, you know, a lot of people do think, "Well, I want to help the American worker, not the worker in India," or something like that. But my point is let's let every American make that decision, not the government tell you. That's why I'm not in favor of tariffs on imports. I mean, that would make -

(CROSSTALK)

[13:55:03] MOORE: Of course it is. And then, who's going to bear the burden of that? The consumers. And that, you're right. You get an A in Economics because that's actually a regressive tax on the lowest income (INAUDIBLE)

BLITZER: So, why do a lot of republicans like that hidden -- the tariff. That's going to make imported goods more expensive for working families.

MOORE: Because they think it's a way to save jobs and, you know, in some cases it might be. We're going to have a big debate in the weeks and months ahead about this idea of order adjustable tax.

BLITZER: Do you support that?

MOORE: You know, I like the idea of taxing what we import and not taxing what we produce in America because all in all I want to see more jobs created in the United States but it has to be done right. I don't like the Paul Ryan plan so much.

BLITZER: Did you give me an A in Economics? Is that what you said?

MOORE: You got it.

BLITZER: All right.

MOORE: I'm impressed.

(CROSSTALK) MOORE: Policy guy?

BLITZER: Yes.

MOORE: Well done.

BLITZER: Stephen Moore, thanks very much.

That's it for me. We're waiting for President Trump to land in Wisconsin. You're looking at live pictures right now. We're going to bring you his speech live. The news continues right here on CNN right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)