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Wolf
Tillerson: Nuclear Deal Ignores Serious Threats from Iran; Tensions with North Korea Continue; Russian Bombers Spotted Off Alaska Coast Twice in 24 Hours; Judge Targeted by Trump Gets Deported Dreamer Case; Mike Pence Praises "Modern Islam" in Indonesia. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired April 20, 2017 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00] REP. TRENT FRANKS, (R), ARIZONA: We are now seeing a situation where some of the most dangerous people on earth are beginning the capacity to do us harm. We're relying on their intent not to. And Iran is on a very frightening path and I hope the president can do things necessary to interdict that path because otherwise --
(CROSSTALK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: So what are you suggesting, Congressman? What can he do?
FRANKS: I'm suggesting, at this point, that he has to rely on other things that Iran is doing that are outside the framework of what they should be doing and applying enough pressure to at least move towards a regime change. Because if we don't either interdict the president trajectory, we could see nuclear terrorism in our lifetime. And that is not a casual statement. I have 8-year-old twins. I'm pretty angry that, somehow, we, under the administration prior here, have just let things get to the point that they are. Now I think that we're in a pretty significant situation. North Korea tested nuclear-potential weapons five times during the Obama administration, and that puts it in perspective in my mind, and we did essentially nothing.
BLITZER: And so if the North does a sixth nuclear test in the coming days or weeks, what should the U.S. do about that?
FRANKS: Well, when they first started doing the missile tests, my suggestion was that we should have had egis capability to take down their missile test. But as I said, without speaking in terms that only inflame or escalate the situation, the president's options now are fewer and much more dangerous. But we cannot, we cannot let either North Korea or Iran remain on their present trajectory. It is a threat to the United States. It's a threat, in Iran's case, to Israel and we just can't let that happen. Unfortunately, this is sort of the harvest of a left-wing ideology that simply stands by with a golf club and ignores some of the dangers that are in front of us at this point.
BLITZER: Congressman Trent Franks, thanks very much for joining us.
FRANKS: Thank you, sir. BLITZER: Up next, strong words from the Secretary of State Rex
Tillerson on the threats coming from Iran. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REX TILLERSON, SECRETARY OF STATE: An unchecked Iran has the potential to travel the same path as North Korea and take the world along with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll talk about Iran and North Korea with a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. There you see him, Democratic Congressman David Cicilline. He joins us after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:37:57] BLITZER: China putting some of its forces on high alert as tensions with North Korea are ratcheting up. A U.S. defense official says Chinese missile-capable bombers are among the forces now on alert.
Meanwhile, more threatening talk from North Korea as the United States flexes its own military muscle in the region. The Max Thunder drill, as it's called, with South Korea, is billed as the second-largest military flying exercise between the two countries. Today's drill takes place as North Korean state media issues a new warning saying the U.S. would be, quote, "completely destroyed" if North Korea launched a preemptive strike.
Democratic Congressman David Cicilline is a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and he is joining us.
Congressman, thanks for joining us.
REP DAVID CICILLINE, (D), RHODE ISLAND: My pleasure.
BLITZER: Tensions with North Korea clearly showing no sign of letting up. If anything, they seem to be intensifying. Under what circumstances, Congressman, would you support U.S. military action against North Korea?
CICILLINE: Well, I think, Wolf, before you even talk about that, we have to do all that we can to really deescalate this potential conflict. What I think is really happening here is symptomatic of a larger problem. The absence of the administration of an actual plan on North Korea, the lack of staffing with hundreds of positions remaining unfilled at the State and Defense Department, important positions, and thirdly, the absence of a coherent decision-making process. These are complicated foreign policy questions. They require kind of the best and brightest, and a real system for evaluating options. I think what we're seeing in a number of areas, and North Korea is just the most recent example, is the absence from this administration of a real understanding of the importance of a thoughtful plan of consistency, of professional staff to help create options and to share those with you. What I think we cannot do is continue to escalate this rhetoric. This is a very serious situation. We have to continue to rely on China's intervention and keep pressure on the Chinese. We, of course, don't want to unify the Korean peninsula, but we don't want a military conflict in the region. So they, I think, have an important interest here.
BLITZER: You made headlines recently when you suggested or implied at least that President Trump would possibly risk war with North Korea to boost his own popularity. What was the basis of your saying that? Explain what you had in mind.
CICILLINE: Sure. Actually, what I said was that what we want to be certain of is that a president is not responding to the political benefit of an action. I think the president saw a sort of bump in his popularity after the Syria strike. It wasn't part of a plan. It wasn't something that was developed in response to a real strategy. It was sort of a one-off response. And I saw some bump in his popularity. Then there was the Mother of All Bombs in Afghanistan, which I think some folks greeted with great admiration.
What I said was we want to be sure our president is making decisions in the best interest of the American people and our national security interests afterthought full consideration of all the implications with really the best advice from people who are deeply knowledgeable about the region, and not in response to what he might see as a political benefit.
(CROSSTALK)
[13:45:13] BLITZER: Let me just press you, Congressman. Are you suggesting that the launching of those 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles against Bashar al Assad air base from which chemical weapons were used against civilians, including kids in Syria, was a politically motivated move on the part of the president or the use of that MOAB, the Mother of All Bombs, to go after that is tunnel and cave, that was a politically motivated movie?
CICILLINE: No. They were clearly military operations. What I said about the Syria strike is because the president has not explained what his policy is and what the U.S. plan is with respect to Syria. We don't have an understanding of exactly what he intends to do. One military action is not a substitute for a policy. What I'm saying is we need to hear from the president, what role does he expect the United States to play in ending the war in Syria, and that includes military action. Then he has a responsibility to come to Congress and seek a use of military force. In Afghanistan, it was made by a four- star general.
What I do think we have is a president who is obsessed with his standing in the polls, more than any president in recent history. And we need to understand and demand that this administration make decisions and explain them to the American people and not for any other reason.
I raise that because we have an unusual kind of devotion to polls and standing in polls, so much so that when the polls don't reflect him doing well, he denounces the polls and says they're not correct. And in the absence of an explanation about what the policies are in the different regions of the word, we all have to be on guard that decisions are made in the best interest of the American people and free that the hope that, in some way, some value will be added because it will make him more or less popular.
(CROSSTALK)
CICILLINE: We want these life-and-death decisions to be made wisely and prudently, and considering all of the implications.
BLITZER: So on top of all of these other tensions, Russian bombers, nuclear-capable bombers now have been spotted off the Alaska coast twice within a 24-hour period. What message is Russia trying to send. U.S. fighter jets had to go up and intercept those Russian bombers. What is the Russian message right now? Because this is a dangerous situation as well.
CICILLINE: It is a dangerous situation. I think the Russians are testing this administration in many ways. I think it's further evidence that Russia is not an ally of the United States. I hope this will persuade the president to stop cozying up to Vladimir Putin and understand that the interests of Vladimir Putin are very much at odds with the interest of the American people and of the United States. They are obviously engaged in destabilizing activities in many parts of the world. But this is just another sort of poke at the U.S., I think, in a very stressful time, to test the capacity of this president and this administration to manage multiple challenges, foreign policy changes at the same time.
BLITZER: Key words "multiple challenges," and there are multiple challenges right now.
Congressman David Cicilline, of Rhode Island, thanks very much for joining us.
CICILLINE: Thanks for having me.
BLITZER: Coming up ahead, the legal fight ahead for the 23-year-old deported from the United States earlier this year. He claims he should have been protected by a program created by the Obama administration. Some legal analysis coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:47:45] BLITZER: As we mentioned earlier, U.S. district court Judge Gonzalo Curiel will be hearing the immigration lawsuit brought by lawyers for a 23-year-old man, Juan Manuel Montes-Bojorquez. Lawyers claim that Montes-Bojorquez was deported despite having DACA protection. They're seeking deportation-process documents from the federal government.
The executive director of the American Immigration Lawyers Association, Benjamin Johnson, is with us.
Benjamin, thank for joining us.
Explain the legal issues right now, what Judge Curiel has to determine.
BENJAMIN JOHNSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMERICAN IMMIGRATION LAWYERS ASSOCIATION: Well, the case in front of the judge right now really is about access to information. Unfortunately, in an immigration court, immigrants don't have a right to see the file and the charges made against him. The case begins with the lawyers, on behalf of Juan, trying to figure out exactly what the file says. They've done a Freedom of Information Act request, the only way to get discovery in immigration court, sadly.
BLITZER: The argument is the federal government alleges he inappropriately left the United States, even though he had DACA protection. He didn't have authority to go to Mexico. He snuck back in. They checked his records, found out he was in Mexico illegally, and then they deported him.
JOHNSON: That's what they're saying now. Their story has changed a couple of times.
BLITZER: The federal government's.
JOHNSON: The federal government's story has changed a couple of times in terms of saying they didn't deport him and then saying, oh, well, he had somehow violated his status and now they're seeing he had previously left the United States a couple days before and he essentially sort of removed himself and then he tried to come back in illegally. Montes has denied those claims. And if there is evidence of him departing the United States and there being two interactions with the federal government, as he claims, that would be reflected in the file, which is the why the lawyers want access to the file.
BLITZER: He's a Dreamer. He was a child when he was brought to the United States. Originally the federal government said his DACA privileges had expired in 2015 but then they took and said he was still subject to that.
JOHNSON: Yes.
BLITZER: So that's another reason that they are questioning the credibility of the Department of Homeland Security on this one.
JOHNSON: They have changed their story a couple of times. They have issued a statement to the press, oddly enough, but they haven't released the file to the attorneys. Again, the attorneys for Mr. Montes are alleging that he was forcibly removed from the United States by Border Patrol a couple of days before. He's been here since he was 9 years old. He has family here. They apprehended him at the border. The question is, was there one contact or two contacts? That would be borne out by the file.
[13:50:29] BLITZER: And Judge Curiel has this Freedom of Information lawsuit to get the federal government to review those?
JOHNSON: That's right. The DHS, the Department of Homeland Security has issued a press release but they haven't released a file to Mr. Montes' attorney. BLITZER: Judge Curiel is in charge of this. Just randomly, he was
selected?
JOHNSON: It's an interesting twist, yes. He got randomly selected for this. He deals with government cases all the time. I think everybody expects he will at least be looking way past this.
BLITZER: Interesting legal case. We'll see what happens with all of the documents once they are released to the 23-year-old's lawyers.
Benjamin Johnson, thank you for coming on.
JOHNSON: My pleasure.
BLITZER: Up next, Vice President Mike Pence praising the largest Muslim-majority country for its, quote, "moderate Islam." Is the administration reaching out in the aftermath of its travel ban?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:55:35] BLITZER: U.S. Vice President Mike Pence is midway through his 10-day swing in Asia. Today he is in Indonesia. While there, he appeared to strike a rather conciliatory tone with the Muslim world. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As the largest majority Muslim country, Indonesia's tradition of modern Islam, frankly, is an inspiration to the world. We commend you and your people.
Rest assured, under President Trump, the United States welcomes all who share our values and strive for that brighter future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Gloria Borger is with us right now.
Pence, by the way, toured the largest mosque in the region, tweeting that the visit "humbled him."
A nice conciliatory tone. Different than some of the tone we've heard before.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. These are people clearly concerned about a travel ban. And what he said was modern Islam. And he did not talk about radical Islam. And I think what he didn't say is almost as important as what he didn't say. He didn't talk about radical Islam and made a conciliatory speech to kind of the modern world over there and the population of 220 Muslims, who are mostly moderate. And they have had their own problem with Islamic terrorism in that country. So it was probably well received.
BLITZER: Let's talk about Bill O'Reilly, who has been removed by FOX News. He'll leave with a $25 billion payout as part of the settlement. Roger Ailes, the former leader of FOX News, emerged with a reported $40 million. How is this going to play when people look back at the sexual harassment accusations that were leveled against both of them?
BORGER: First of all, I would say that the women who took him on got, together, $13 million, and Bill O'Reilly, the reports are, has gotten $25 million.
BLITZER: $13 million in connection with the sexual harassment accusations against Bill O'Reilly.
BORGER: And I think the question is whether FOX News is going to face more lawsuits and whether he's been indemnified against those and whether, in exchange for not paying out his full salary, that FOX News will take care of those kind of legal bills. So I think if you're a shareholder, you're going to add up the $40 million and the $25 million in the lawsuits and you're going to say, this was absolutely the right decision that the company made.
BLITZER: Remember, the president, who has been a friend of Bill O'Reilly for a long time, for 20 years, if not longer, in that interview he gave to "The New York Times" a couple of weeks ago, President Trump says, I don't think bill did anything wrong. And he strongly suggested that Bill O'Reilly should not have settled those lawsuits and made those payments.
The president is going to have a news conference with the visiting Italian prime minister coming up. How do you think he'll respond to the latest developments?
BORGER: You know, I was thinking about that, and I remember what he said about Roger Ailes. He said that he thought it was sad and that he admired what Roger Ailes had done for FOX News and I think he may take the same tone with O'Reilly. I don't think he's going to say he didn't do anything wrong here but I think he's going to talk about how important O'Reilly has been to cable news and what a groundbreaking person he was, et cetera, et cetera, and how he is saddened by this turn of events, because O'Reilly is a friend of his. But will he take on and defend the sexual harassment? I kind of doubt it.
BLITZER: I wonder if, in fact, he'll say anything about it at all.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: We'll see if someone asks. He hasn't tweeted yet.
BLITZER: He hasn't tweeted about it yet. We'll see if he does.
Gloria, thanks very much.
That's it for me. Thanks to all of our viewers for watching. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. in "The Situation Room."
Remember, at 3:00 p.m., President Trump will hold a news conference with the visiting prime minister of Italy. We've have live special coverage of that. In the meantime, the news continues here on CNN right after -- well,
right now.
[14:00:07] ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Ana Cabrera, in for Brooke Baldwin today. Thanks for being with us.
As President Trump's 100th day gets closer, news of a significant potential for --
