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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER
W.H. "Don't Know" If Flynn Broke The Law; Judges Blocks Part Of Trump's Sanctuary Cities Order; Interview with California AG Xavier Becerra; Interview with Sen. Cory Booker; Source: GOP Proposal Doesn't Include Wall Money; Interview with OMB Director Mick Mulvaney; Ivanka Trump Heckled While Defending Her Dad In Germany; Facebook's Sheryl Sandberg Opens Up About Loss And Grief. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 25, 2017 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:02] JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump said we're going to win so much, you're going to be sick and tire of winning. And then federal courts said, not so fast there, Donald Trump.
THE LEAD starts right now.
Breaking news, another judge dealing President Trump a major setback, this time regarding a crucial executive order on sanctuary cities. Senator Cory Booker will be here to react in minutes.
Also breaking tonight, the House Oversight Committee saying that the president's former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, may have broken the law regarding a Russian payday (ph).
Plus, a candid conversation with Facebook's Sheryl Sandberg, how she and her children are coping with the immense pain of shockingly losing her husband.
Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to a special prime time edition of THE LEAD in which we're marking President Trump's first 100 days in office. I'm Jake Tapper. And we're going to begin with some breaking news in our politics lead.
Major developments in what could be the most jam packed and crucial week of Donald Trump's presidency. So far, in just the past few hours, the Senate Intelligence Committee met behind closed doors about the investigation into possible coordination between Trump advisers and the Russian government in the 2016 election.
The White House brushed off questions about their former national security adviser after a key Republican lawmaker suggested that Michael Flynn might have broken the law and a federal court just struck down another key piece of President Trump's agenda.
A judge this time blocking part of a Trump executive order that would cut off federal funding for sanctuary cities that protect undocumented immigrants. All the while there's this looming threat of a federal government shutdown.
CNN's Senior White House Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is live on the North Lawn of the White House for us. And, Jeff, this latest order from the judge, let's focus on that, just the latest roadblock for President Trump's hard line immigration crackdown in the federal court system. Tell us about it.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, the White House was planning to showcase its accomplishments this week leading up to the 100 days of the Trump presidency. But it's also showcasing unwittingly something else, a string of legal defeats.
Now, I was speaking with the Chief of Staff here of the White House, Reince Priebus, just a short time ago. We had a briefing with reporters. He assailed this ruling. He said the Ninth Circuit is going bananas. They also said eventually that this case would be appeal and they would win at the Supreme Court. But, Jake, that will come later. For tonight, it's a defeat for this White House.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES : Busy day. We had a very busy day.
ZELENY (voice-over): The ink was barely dry today on President Trump's 26th executive order, when one of the earliest of his presidency hit a legal roadblock. Tonight, another lesson in the limits of presidential power with the federal judge in California blocking the administration from enforcing a threat to take money away from sanctuary cities.
TRUMP: And finally, at long last, cracking down on sanctuary cities.
ZELENY (voice-over): On his fifth day in office, the president signed the order withholding funding from cities that limit cooperation with federal immigration enforcement. Tonight, that order frozen from the bench. The judge citing the president's own words, just like previous rulings that twice blocked Mr. Trump's travel ban.
DENNIS HERRERA, SAN FRANCISCO CITY ATTORNEY: This is why we have courts, to halt the overreach of a president and attorney general who either don't understand the constitution or choose to ignore it.
ZELENY (voice-over): As the first 100 days close in on the Trump presidency, the White House is eager to show action and accomplishment, tonight, new defeat. A common theme is emerging, using executive authority rather than building consensus to pass a law, even in a Republican controlled Congress.
Frustrated with Washington, the president relishes signing executive orders with even more on tap this week, but running for office, he bemoaned such presidential power.
TRUMP: We don't want to continue to watch people signing executive orders because that was not what the constitution and the brilliant designers of this incredible document had in mind. We need people who that can make deals and can work, because right now in Washington there's total, absolute gridlock.
ZELENY (voice-over): Now, the gridlock is his. Playing out this week with his border wall and keeping the government open.
TRUMP: The wall is going to get built fast, just in case anybody has any question.
ZELENY (voice-over): There are many questions. The biggest remains, how to pay for it. The White House is punting on that answer for now at least. Republicans presented a plan today to avoid a government shutdown by Friday, but it doesn't include money to actually build the wall, never mind what the president says.
TRUMP: The wall gets built 100 percent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When? When, sir? When, sir? When? When, Mr. President? When, Mr. President? When will the wall get built? When will the wall get built?
ZELENY: Now, the White House believes the president is showing reasonableness. That's the word from Reince Priebus tonight to keep the government open and allow a funding for border security to be OK for now. But he insists there will be a discussion of funding for the wall coming up.
[21:05:06] But, Jake, that is uncertain at this point, of course. Democrats are opposed to it. Some Republicans think it's a bad idea. This all becomes more complicated tomorrow when the president announces his tax reform plan. Republicans so far are among its biggest critics. Jake?
TAPPER: All right. Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much.
I want to bring in my guest, Xavier Becerra, who was once a Democratic congressman, but now took a different game. He's the attorney general of California. General Bacerra, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.
XAVIER BECERRA, CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Thanks, Jake.
TAPPER: So what's your response to White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus saying that this is the Ninth Circuit court going bananas?
BECERRA: Another case of the administration in denial. You just have to read the constitution. It's very simple. You can't force states to do things that the constitution lets them do. And public safety is one of those items that a state has the responsibility to take care of, not the federal government.
And so, Trump administration can say as much as it wants, but we're beginning to see all of those words of Donald Trump the candidate unravel as he tries to exercise power as Donald Trump the president.
TAPPER: What do you say to the average American sitting at home who says, "Hey, look, I understand that most undocumented immigrants are otherwise law abiding and are peaceful people." But sanctuary cities seem to also protect violent criminals. And why can't these cities actually take care of deporting these people who are a threat to the community?
BECERRA: Actually, Jake, you got it half right and half wrong, and if you're quoting what others are saying because, one, California, in our cities, we're locking up violent people, those who are committing serious felonies. They're going to jail. And if they are undocumented, they're likely being deported right after they finish their sentence.
What we're not interested in doing is doing the work of federal immigration authorities to go hunt down people whether at a grocery store, at a child's school or at a place of worship. What we're trying to do is make sure that we allow our police officers and our sheriffs to do their work so they can gain the cooperation and the confidence of the people that they can report crime as witnesses, report crime as victims. And we want that relationship to continue.
Everything the president has been doing has eroded the trust that communities can have, especially communities -- immigrant communities with our local law enforcement because they're getting swept up with ICE enforcement when our local folks aren't in the business of deportation. They're in the business of public safety.
TAPPER: Do you support the measure to make California a sanctuary state?
BECERRA: I've yet to see any -- find anyone who could define what a sanctuary jurisdiction is, because it means a lot of different things. For me when we talk about sanctuary, we're trying to make sure that people who are law abiding working very hard, who have their families and concentrate on that aren't caught up in this net that Donald Trump's authorities are now exercising in places to capture people who are just going to work.
Capturing young men and women who are DACA recipients, who are Dreamers who under the administration are still permitted to go ahead and work and live in this country. And so, we're trying to make sure that there's protection for people who are working very hard. But serious criminals, lock them up and deport them if they don't have documents.
TAPPER: If California can ignore laws, like immigration laws, that it doesn't like, this is another argument. What's to stop another state from refusing to honor different laws? Civil rights laws, for example. Isn't this a precedent, this stance against abiding by federal immigration laws that only works when its laws you don't like?
BECERRA: And, Jake, again, I know that's what people are saying. But, everything you just said falls on its head because it's a false premise. An executive order is not a law. A law must be passed by Congress. California respects all federal laws.
Right now, we respect the federal constitution. But we're under no obligation to respect an executive order, which violates the U.S. constitution as we now have heard another court say about another Trump executive order. The overreach under the constitution isn't something that the courts will permit.
And so, Jake, California is not violating any federal law. California is simply saying to a president who is overreached beyond what he can under the constitution that we don't have to respect a dictate from a president who probably hasn't read the constitution in quite some time.
TAPPER: Attorney General Xavier Becerra, thank you so much. It's good to see you again.
BECERRA: Thank you.
TAPPER: Our coverage of this breaking news continues. Up next, the former mayor of Newark, New Jersey, a sanctuary city, he also happens to be Senator Cory Booker. Stay with us.
[21:13:39] TAPPER: Welcome back. We're back with our politics lead now. I'm Jake Tapper. A major legal blow for the Trump administration this evening. A federal judge just hours ago temporarily blocking part of a Trump executive order withholding federal funds from so-called sanctuary cities. This comes after the president's ban halting travel from six Muslim majority countries was also stopped by the courts earlier this year.
All right, joining me now is Democratic Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey. His previous job was mayor of Newark, New Jersey, which is a sanctuary city. Senator, thank you so much for joining us.
SEN. CORY BOOKER, (D) NEW JERSEY: It's great to be on again, Jake.
TAPPER: So here's the question that a lot of people out there might be wondering. Why shouldn't U.S. immigration laws be enforced in cities if someone is in the country illegally, why should law enforcement look the other way?
BOOKER: Well, it's actually a matter of public safety and it's not about looking the other way. When I was mayor of Newark, my paramount focus was keeping people in my community safe and that meant having a good relationship with immigrant communities.
If folks don't feel like they can trust the local police, come forward and talk to them about a mugging, a robbery or larger investigation, then we lose our ability to actually enforce local laws. We should not be doing the federal government's job.
And what people don't often understand about this so-called sanctuary city, it's not violating federal laws. Often the requests we get from the federal government are voluntary request.
If I'm holding somebody who is John Smith from Ireland and he happens to match a name of somebody who had a visa overstay from that country, sometimes the federal government would say, "Hey, would you voluntarily hold that person for another day or two?"
[21:15:11] And our position was like, "Look, if that's a federal order, we'll do it." But, I'm not going to voluntary take away somebody's liberty for 48 hours until you guys figure out which John Smith this is.
TAPPER: Right. So -- but here's the thing. The Trump administration says sanctuary cities cause a measurable harm to the American people. They're not talking about your story necessarily, but I think they're talking about a climate where violent undocumented immigrants are not treated the way they should be.
For instance, you know this story well. But in 2006, Jose Carranza, an undocumented immigrant from Peru was arrested in Newark for aggravated assault. He was arrested in 2007 twice for child rape. All those times he got out on bail. Then, of course, in 2007, later in the year he took part in the notorious execution-style shooting of three friends in a Newark schoolyard. He is currently in prison sentenced to 155 years.
In none of the cases, did police or prosecutors report his immigration status to federal officials? And one wonders, did the policy of having a sanctuary city, of being a sanctuary city have anything to do with why prosecutor and police didn't report Carranza to get him deported?
BOOKER: Again, this is a breakdown. I know this case very well. There is a breakdown. The federal government has a responsibility to enforce those laws. And, again, if somebody is caught by our police and we know factually that they are an undocumented immigrant for a violent crime, then that is somebody that we are going to make sure that we do the right thing with the federal government. If they are failing to alert us that a person that we're holding is not undocumented citizen or not being asked by the federal government to retain, then that's problematic.
And, again, the federal government has a very important role to keep us safe. That's why ICE agents, we actually work together on tasks force with them. It's very important that they actually get their job done. But this goes back to something simple and that case is very distinct from what I'm talking about right now, which is making sure that we create a climate in cities where local law enforcement can protect people.
And when the federal government -- when Donald Trump is trying to undermine our ability to create a climate in our cities where we can create cooperation, share information, share fact, we're victims of crime themselves can come forward. If you eroding that environment, you're going to make people less safe in cities so that -- those violent criminals like the ones you're describing, then other people with the immigrate community aren't going to come forward with the information that's going to help them captures -- help us captured that.
TAPPER: But with all due respect, Sir, Jose Carranza should have been deported. Should he not? I mean, right after the first aggravated assault arrest, certainly after the first child rape arrest, Newark police could find out whether or not he was legal and deport him. I don't understand why it's blamed on ICE.
BOOKER: And, Jake, I'm going to give you the best of respect with that. When Newark police are arresting people and putting them into the system, when somebody creates a violent crime, please don't put it on the great police officers in Newark, New Jersey that their job at that point after they've arrested the person and now the person is going into the state judicial system, please don't think that our cop now needs to follow them into that state system to make sure they're deported. That's not the city's job.
Our job is to get violent people off the street and put them into the system. And so, you are trying to obscure things when you're questioning and I just want you to be clear. What our great local law enforcement all around the country are really trying to do, they arrest serious criminals. They put them off the street.
But if they're getting detainer requests for non-violent criminals, people that haven't committed any crime, who are due for release, don't tell me then that we should be holding somebody that we don't even know if it's undocumented or not. And we're not getting an order to do that. We're getting what's called the voluntary detainer request. Don't obscure this.
If you're a violent criminal, those local cops, they want them off the streets as long as possible. Please don't obscure that and they do their job. Our local law enforcement is doing their job on violent criminals.
Don't obscure that with what Donald Trump is trying to do, which is to say, situations, number one, if you are a non-violent criminal that's been caught up for some -- been arrested for something, for non- violent drunk offense or something like that and you're about to be released, don't tell us that we should be holding somebody that could be very well be an American citizen because they match a name on a database.
TAPPER: All right. Senator Cory Booker, I appreciate and I appreciate your passion. I appreciate you taking these questions. Thank you so much. Good to see you as always.
BOOKER: No, thank you.
TAPPER: Meeting is wrapping up at the White House as President Trump prepares to deliver his tax reform plan to the nation in a few hours. A member of the Trump White House will join us next. Stay with us.
[21:23:29] TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. More in our politics lead now.
Amidst all of the chaos of the day and the week and indeed the Trump presidency, so far you may not know that we are right now possibly headed for a government shutdown this week. It's true. If by Friday Congress and the president are not able to reach an agreement to fund the federal government, a whole host of government agencies deemed non-essential will shut down. Among the sticking points, will President Trump get the funding to build the border wall?
And joining me now is the director of the Office of Management and Budget, Mick Mulvaney. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.
MICK MULVANEY, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: Thanks very much for having me.
TAPPER: So we're talking about this potential government shutdown. If this funding bill doesn't work itself out. And let me just ask you, the House is controlled by Republicans. The Senate is controlled by Republicans. The White House is controlled by Republicans. What's the problem?
MULVANEY: Yeah. The problem is the Senate rules, people forget this sometimes, that the spending bills are different than the budget, the underlying budgets sort of move through the House and Senate differently. Anything that had passes on reconciliation moves differently. But most bills, including spending bills, take 60 votes in the Senate.
TAPPER: So you need eight Democrats.
MULVANEY: Eight, which means that Chuck Schumer, the Democrats have a place at the table. We recognize that. But that's why we just can't do it on our own.
TAPPER: A source close to efforts to avoid the government shutdown tells CNN that the Republican proposal in the House will not include funding for President Trump's border wall with Mexico. Is President Trump willing to sign a government spending bill that does not include that money?
[21:25:06] MULVANEY: Yeah, because I think the bill -- at least that the offer that we received from the Democrats the last couple days included a good bit of money for border security.
The Democrats said they would go to the mat and shut the government down over the border wall, the bricks and mortar. But there's a lot of things we agree on, both parties do, in securing the border. And it allows the president to follow through on his promise to make that border more secure.
Stop people coming over, stop drugs from coming over. So there's things we can do by way of maintenance and technology, gates, bridges, roads that kind of stuff that make a real difference in that southern border security, so.
TAPPER: But the president says he's not backing down on the wall.
MULVANEY: Not back -- well, we're not backing down. Keep in mind, this is just -- this bill is just for the last five months of this year. We're actually half -- almost more than halfway through fiscal year '17. We're only talking about through the end of September.
The discussion for what to do in fiscal year '18 starts October 1st. That discussion actually starts as soon as this bill is signed. So we're going to continue these conversations. We just thought that it would be a good first step to get these things that everybody agrees on and take that idea of a government shutdown off the table.
TAPPER: Democrats say that they want some funding for Obamacare subsidies for lower income Americans as part of this deal. Is the president willing to go along with that?
MULVANEY: No. In fact, they only raised that about two weeks ago. They complained about us bringing our issues late to the table. We brought the idea of wall funding, more military funding in early March to the Hill. They dropped this Obamacare bailout, these insurance company payments about two weeks ago. I think they also raised Puerto Rico for the first time a couple of days ago. So these are things they brought to the table very late.
We made it very clear early on that, "Yeah, OK, if you want to talk about those payments to the insurance companies, we will trade you a dollar for dollar on bricks and mortar for the wall." But they said no to that. We agreed to put that off for another day and then try to move forward on securing the border as best we can right now.
TAPPER: And there will be an agreement, you think?
MULVANEY: I hope so. Here's what concerns me is that we informed the Democrats yesterday that we were not going to insist for now on bricks and mortar. We're going to move that discussion until September of this year for fiscal year '18.
And we thought that was going to get a deal done. And we've not heard anything from them today. So now I'm not sure what's happening. I'd be curious to ask the Democrats where they stand on a shutdown right now because we thought we had a deal as of yesterday.
TAPPER: And let me ask you about tax reform. The president's proposal expected this evening or maybe tomorrow on lowering rates, maybe not detailed bill but some broad strokes. Lowering the corporate tax rate 35 percent to 15 percent?
MULVANEY: Yeah. I don't want to confirm the actual numbers, but I can tell you that number is pretty accurate. Official rollout would be tomorrow. We talked about it in terms of guiding principals, plus some rates and that's what we're going to talk about tomorrow. Talk about the specific corporate rate, some of the individual tax rates and so forth along with some principals that the administrations are going to be pushing as part of its proposals.
TAPPER: You are a deficit hawk. Are you one when you're on the Congress and that going to explode the deficit?
MULVANEY: No, not really. There will be growth on the other side. In fact, that's what this entire thing is keyed to do. We backfilled our tax plan. We didn't start off with rates. We didn't start off with impact on particular segments.
What we said was we need economic growth. We need people to go back to work. We need people in better paying jobs and more jobs, more ability to move between jobs. We need more upward mobility in the country again and that's what this tax bill is designed to.
If it does lead to deficits, Jake, as a conservative, that bothers me a little bit. But we also look at deficits through sort of a different lens. There's a difference between a deficit that comes from -- let say a wealth transfer payment, a welfare program, and a deficit that comes from allowing people to keep move of their more money -- excuse me, more of their own money. That's a more efficient allocation of resources because you have more control over your money and we think ultimately that's good for the country.
TAPPER: All right. Mick Mulvaney, director of the Office of Management and Budget, thank you do much for coming. We appreciate it and congratulations on the 100 days.
MULVANEY: Thank you.
TAPPER: He is the guy who once led this chant at the Republican national convention.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lock her up. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Lock her up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: But, now, the Republican House Oversight Committee chairman says ex-national security adviser Michael Flynn, well, he might have broken the law regarding payments from Russia. Stay with us.
[21:33:18] TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. More breaking news in our politics lead today. A top House Republican today suggesting that now fired National Security Adviser Michael Flynn might have broken the law.
House Oversight Committee Chairman Jason Chaffetz of Utah said he is seeing no evidence that Flynn complied with disclosure laws regarding the money he took for engagements and appearances in Russia and lobbying for a Turkish company.
Chaffetz said his committee wrote to the White House for more information on this, but got an executive Heisman in response. Asked for information about Flynn's contacts with foreign nationals during the transition, the White House acted as if the transition was some grainy, hazy memory like Woodstock and not the period in which Flynn was the incoming national security adviser in a process run by the vice president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: All the information that they are talking about occurred prior to him being at the White House. To ask the White House for these documents that were not in possession of the White House is ridiculous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: OK, that's during the transition. Well, then after the transition when Flynn was in the White House. Well, for that information, the White House said releasing any such documentation might compromise national security. That's the same reason they gave for not publishing the White House visitor logs. Incidentally, it's a catchall that all administrations use when they don't want to release embarrassing information.
So then the big question, of course, did Flynn break the law when filling out his questionnaire for his national security position and not including the $45,000 in payments from the Russian government? The White House would not say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPICER: That would be a question for him and a law enforcement agency whether or not he filled -- I don't know what he filled out and what he did or did not do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: You might want to look into that. Let's bring in my panel. We have with us Dan Pfeiffer, Amy Walter, and David Urban.
David Urban, let me start with you. The man who won Pennsylvania for President Trump, you're not a member of the White House. You don't have to defend anything you don't want to defend.
[21:35:02] But a few weeks ago people are wondering why Michael Flynn wanted immunity. This might be why Michael Flynn wanted immunity.
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, I think it's a pretty good chance there, Jake. I would say that, Jake -- I mean, Chairman Chaffetz is not necessarily one who is going to take that position that he did today saying that he saw nothing kind of taking a swing at General Flynn there. I'll say -- but I still would say, let's reserve judgment. Let's wait and see General Flynn.
I worked with him. He's had a distinguished career in the military, a three-star general. General headed the Defense Intelligence Agency. He's a bright man. I would like to see what's in the paper. Let's it played out. Let's put the string be pulled. And I'd say let's withhold judgment until all the facts were in.
TAPPER: That's fair enough. But, Dan Pfeiffer, let me ask you. You saw Sean Spicer's -- the way that they're trying to deal with this, which is kind of the same what they tried to do with Paul Manafort, which is kind of pretending like they never even met this person or he had this very small role. Manafort played a huge role. Flynn played a huge role. How would you advice them if you were communications director at White House for him? What would you say is the way to handle it?
DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think what would be -- look, there are no good answers for Sean right now. That's kind of true every day, but particularly true in this case. Those were particularly not good answers. They're going to have to give this documentation over.
If Flynn did something wrong, they -- they've already fired him. From a political perspective, they should cut bait. That is the right thing to do. If he lied to them and lied on his forms, then they should not be up there defending him and he shall be taking political water on, on his behalf.
There are -- it's sort of shocking they allowed this to happen because we all knew about Trump -- about Flynn's connections to R.T. and the Russians. And to not ask those questions and look at those forms before he submitted them is either -- it's a fairly shocking, you know, level of incompetence there.
TAPPER: Do you think that there is political water that he's taking on or is just something that --
AMY WALTER, NATIONAL EDITOR, THE COOK POLITICAL REPORT: That the president is taking on you mean or --
TAPPER: Yeah. I mean, is this actually affecting the White House? Or is this something that like the media follows and --
TAPPER: -- people who hate Trump follow, but generally speaking, this has no affect or does it have an affect? I mean, Chaffetz -- as David pointed out, Chaffetz doesn't normally say things like this.
WALTER: No. Although Chaffetz is leaving his position and he's going back to Utah, potentially running for governor. So it doesn't hurt to look like you're doing a bipartisan work on ethics reform while you're trying to run for a bigger, higher executive office.
At the same time I would say, I agree with your first point, Jake, that I think that for most Americans they're not sitting around going, "I wonder whatever happened to that Michael Flynn." He's not part of the White House team right now.
It's not a good story when you're still talking about the fact that somebody that you brought on either lied to you or to the other more damming point that you were not as an organization competent enough to find this out before you brought him on.
And I think most people are much more concerned with what is the current national security adviser doing, than what the former national security adviser who was there for 15 minutes. TAPPER: And let's talk about national security. Let's talk about the sanctuary city ruling that the judge handed down from the Eighth Circuit.
URBAN: Ninth Circuit.
TAPPER: Ninth Circuit, I'm sorry.
URBAN: It makes a difference.
TAPPER: You're right in indeed, it does. So what do you make of all this?
URBAN: Look, I think as you spoke with -- earlier --
URBAN: Yeah. I mean, you spoke with Bacerra and also with Cory Booker about, you know, the -- what happened in Newark, right? Not much -- about two years ago something very similar happened in San Francisco, a horrific incident with a criminal alien.
I don't see why these are mutually exclusive goals in terms of protecting folks from criminal aliens and having the cooperation that Bacerra and others spoke about. I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I think the law is in place. You should -- the city should follow the law.
PFIEFFER: Well, I think what --
TAPPER: And you live in San Francisco.
PFIEFFER: I do live in San Francisco.
PFIEFFER: As both Bacerra and Senator Booker pointed out, there's a difference between the policy and the actual implementation of policy. I think what Senator Booker was referring to in Newark, the policy was not handled correctly, either at the federal level or the local level and that's the difference. But there is a reason (inaudible).
There's a long history of people -- members of the community who are undocumented, been there for years not turning to law enforcement, victims of domestic abuse being afraid to report abusers because they're afraid they will get deported. And if that fear of deportation is there, then the law enforcement will not work within the community. So they're doing what's best for the community.
TAPPER: All right, panels, stick around. We've got a lot more to talk about, including Barack Obama and Ivanka Trump getting booed during her debut on the world political stage as her father's adviser. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:40:13] IVANKA TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF PRESIDENT TRUMP: He's been a tremendous champion of supporting families and enabling them to thrive. The new reality --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You hear the reaction from the audience, so I need to --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. That was first daughter Ivanka Trump earlier today being booed and hissed at while speaking about her father on a women's entrepreneur panel in Berlin, Germany. When later asked about the jeers, President Trump's daughter and White House adviser said she's used to it. It's all part of politics.
Let's jump back with our panel. Amy, what do you make of that reception? I guess it's kind of an elitist European crowd.
WALTER: -- group of women who are not happy with President Trump. And, you know, there's become this now mean going around about-- that Ivanka Trump is complicit and that this is her role in sort of being a kindler, gentler face on policies and procedure that these groups of the folks don't like to see.
But, again, I don't know that it really tells us much about the role that Ivanka Trump is going to be playing later on. She's still going to have a pretty significant role with her father, whether or not folks in Berlin are particularly --
TAPPER: David, what is her role? I mean, I know she's senior adviser.
URBAN: She's senior adviser and she's the president's daughter. I mean, she obviously has a special place in his life. When you have kids, you know, your child plays a particular role. Ivanka have extremely talented, very bright. Had the good fortune of working around Pennsylvania where she and the president rolled out their childcare tax credit plan in Delaware County during the campaign and she's incredibly bright.
And you heard her after that she's used to it. I spent several days with her during the campaign and she said its politics. She gets the jeers. And as you pointed out, it's an elitist European crowd. And so, I would have been shocked if they didn't boo her.
[21:45:01] TAPPER: Dan, what do you make of that?
PFEIFFER: Well, I think if she were just the president's daughter and she had gone and she'd been booed, I would have thought that's probably out of bounds, like she didn't choose to be on these, but she did choose to be a White House senior adviser, right? And so in that sense, she is, you know, she is not excused from all the leaks and political hits that White House staff takes because she's the president's daughter. And the challenge here is no one knows what she's doing.
The White House has not outlined that, like we don't know what her duties are. It's simply to advocate for something, sometimes, somewhere. And if she had a clear portfolio, we knew what it was then people could judge her on her work. Instead, you're left in a situation where if this big wall and she's going to take criticism for that.
URBAN: You know, I would just say like -- you know, what was your role when you're a senior adviser to the president? Was there-- did you have a book that had your duties everyday?
PFEIFFER: Yeah, absolutely.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. No, but I had specific roles. I worked on communications and message and --
URBAN: No. But I think (inaudible) when you're simply senior adviser, right?
PFEIFFER: Well, even as senior adviser. I was very -- I had very specific task as did everyone else. They have -- within the White House, whether the Obama White House, the Bush White House, the Clinton White House, people had specific roles. She does not -- look, this is a really unique situation. I acknowledge that.
URBAN: And, listen, and those definitions are -- your definitions that I'm sure your responsibilities are much more of two senior narrow definitions what your job duties were everyday. You didn't just color in the lines. You did whatever is necessary to advance the cause of the president. And I think that's what she's doing here. She is working on whatever is necessary that day.
PFEIFFER: There's no one can identify, that is the challenge.
URBAN: Well, I don't know if that's true.
TAPPER: Do you think -- I mean there is this weird thing about like what role do all the people in the White House play. I mean -- and this is something that, Amy, that a lot of us have talked about. First of all, he seems to like -- the president seems to likes to have a lot different centers of gravity. He seems to like to have people play off each other. Sometimes it gets a little tough as with Steven Bannon and Jared Kushner. Other times I guess he likes it and he thinks the competition is good. Ivanka and her husband, Jared Kushner, also a top adviser, they seem to be one of the power centers. WALTER: Yeah. To me, the real question is the ability to get anything done. And so, it's one thing to bring in people who don't necessarily have political or government experience because they're bringing some new, fresh insights. And then you surround them or supplement them with people who are really experienced in those.
But, this is a White House where there's no one who's experienced within the Oval Office, which means there is good parts of that, right? We're going do things really differently. We don't need to follow the same rules every other president did. I totally I buy that.
But at some point, you're going to have to show that that's going to be successful. And right now, whether it's on a budget showdown, whether it's the health care plan, whether we see it on tax reform, they got to deal to deliver on being different.
URBAN: I would say we have 13 out of (ph) 90 days. It's little early.
WALTER: Yeah. Yeah.
TAPPER: David Urban, Dan Pfeiffer, Amy Walter, thanks one in all. Great panel.
She's the COO of Facebook, a mother of two and now sadly a widow. Sheryl Sandberg will be here to talk about the sudden loss of her husband and what she discovered that helped her cope with the grief. Stay with us.
[21:51:37] TAPPER: Our pop culture lead now, Sheryl Sandberg is the Chief Operating Officer of Facebook, a mother of two and now since nearly two years ago a widow. Her husband (inaudible) Dave Goldberg was only 47 when he died on their vacation in Mexico. He was found dead after falling while he was exercising. Later, an autopsy revealed he had a cardiac arrhythmia. He was suffering from coronary artery disease.
Now, Sandberg is out with a new book called "Option B: Facing Adversity, Building Resilience, and Finding Joy." It's a book she wrote with her friend and psychologist Adam Grant. It's not only for those who have experienced the loss, but for those who have not and how they can help those who are grieving.
And here with me now is Sheryl Sandberg. Sheryl, thank you so much for being here. It's great to have you here on horrible conditions, but great to have you here.
SHERYL SANDBERG, COO, FACEBOOK: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it, Jake.
TAPPER: So, I know this has been an awful experienced. And I know however therapeutic writing this book must have been, it must be difficult after talking about the book and talking about Dave, how are you?
SANDBERG: I'm OK. I am, you know, going through this. It's the unimaginable. And I -- since early days, months, weeks, I felt like there was this void closing in on me, the grief. I can't breathe. And I didn't know what to do. And I turn to my friend, Adam, and I said, "How do I get my kids through this, because I was so worried that their happiness or childhoods were going to be wiped away in that same minute, second, we lost Dave."
And what I learned is that we don't have a fix amount of resilience. It's a muscle. And that means we can build it in ourselves and other people. And this book is our attempt to share what we learned and because my husband, Dave, he was such a generous person. He gave so much to so many people.
As much as it is sometimes hard to talk to him, I think if this book helps anyone who's facing any kind of hardship, I feel that it honors the life he led. And like so many people who have lost someone, I want his memory to stay alive.
TAPPER: Right. There's a Jewish saying "May his memory be a blessing." And you-- I think achieve that in this book. Let may read one excerpt. You write a bit about your kids because as you note it's not just your grief, it's your two children and you write about it in the intro of the book and then later in the book you talk about when you actually sat them down, when you came back from vacation they did not know.
I'm just going to read a little bit of this. "With my father's strong arm around my shoulders trying to protect me as he always has, I found the courage to speak." You're speaking to your two children. "I have terrible news. Terrible. Daddy died. The screaming and crying that followed haunt me to this day, primal screams and cries that echoed -- sorry, could echoed the ones in my heart. Nothing has come close to the pain of this moment. Even now in my mind wanders back, I shake and my throat constricts."
You write that your biggest fear is that your children will never have a happy childhood. It's been two years. Does that remain your biggest fear?
SANDBERG: Kids are resilient. My kids are resilient and my kids have faced horrible trauma. There are so many kids in this country growing up in poverty facing very, very hard challenges and there are kids who face their every day obstacles and we need resilience for all of them.
[21:55:01] So many people who have loss parents when they were young children told me that they were OK. Early on, a friend of mine I'd never known his father died when he was young. He said, "My father died when I was four." And I said, "Oh, good." And then I said, "Oh, my god, I don't mean that."
SANDBERG: Of course, I don't mean that. But, I never knew his father died and he is a loving husband, wonderful colleague at work and he give me hope. Not that I would wish that on anyone.
My kids have perspective. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but they have it. Just the other day, my son's basketball team lost the playoffs. And all other the little kids where pretty upset and some of the little boys were crying and I looked at my son and I said, "Are you OK? He said, "Mom, this is sixth grade basketball. I'm fine." But they're strong. They've been through something hard and they still laugh and they still play.
TAPPER: And you guys are there for each other. You have a very poignant anecdote in the book about being upset. You go to-- your son has a concert and you go there and you're upset because you see the absence of Dave and all the other -- amidst all the other dads there and you come back and you have a big event. You need to be part of for Facebook. Tell to us the story.
SANDBERG: Yeah, I was at the concert. All the other parents were there, the fathers. It just hit me that Dave will never be again. And I went tried to hold it together at the school and I was upstairs in my room crying and all of Facebook's most important clients are downstairs in my house for dinner. They only come once a year.
And my son came in. He said, "What are you doing?" I said, "We have to go downstairs." He said, "Mommy, they're here." And I said, "Well, I can't go downstairs. I'm crying." And I was just trying -- stop crying, I couldn't, you know, year later. And he looked to me and he said, "Mom, you should just go downstairs. They all know what happen to us. It's OK." And then he turned around and said, "And I bet they have things they cry about too."
And I was uncomfortable as it is in some ways for me in any of us to share these things openly. One of the main reasons I wrote this is I want to kick Allison (ph) out of a lot of rooms because hardship brings in an elephant. Before Dave died, when I dropped my kids off at school, everyone says hi. I walk into work, everyone chit-chat. After Dave, not so much.
TAPPER: Yeah. You write about that, about people not knowing how to handle their friendship with you, not knowing how to address it and some friends of yours just kind of disappeared.
SANDBERG: Yeah. And my closest friends and family were amazing and they're why I'm here. But as I kind of moved to the world, the people I normally interacted with, I think they were afraid to say anything so they didn't say anything at all. And I understood that because that's what I did before to other people.
I thought if I brought it up, I was reminding someone. You can't remind me I loss Dave, that's absurd. I know that. You also can't remind someone they have cancer. That there father just went to jail, you know, that they face sexual assault. We can't remind people of these things, but we don't talk about them.
And that means we're not there for each other when we most can be and the reason I wrote this book with Adam and we started optionb.org is to try to get people to talk openly when they want to, not everyone wants it all the time, but so we can support each other. No one gets through these things alone.
TAPPER: So what do you want people to say to you when they see you and what should be the guiding principal of people when a coworker loses as spouse or a child? How should we-- it's so strange because unless we die early, all of us are going to deal with grief one way or another, sooner or later, and it's devastating and it remains one of the things the society talks about the least.
SANDBERG: I think the most important thing is acknowledging the pain. You can say, "I know you're suffering and I'm here to help you get through it. We will get through it. Not you are going to through it, we. And you may or may not want to talk, but I know. How are you today? Not, how are you."
And the other thing is rather than offer to do anything, do something specific. I use to do this. If someone was in need or facing something hard I would say, "Is there anything I can do?" And I meant it.
But that question kind of shifts the burden to the person to tell you what they need. "Well, can you make Father's Day go away so I don't have to live through it every year?" It's hard to answer that question. Just do something.
My dear friends, Dan and Esther Levy (ph), they have tragically loss their child. They were in the hospital for many months and one of his friends texted and said, "What do you not want on a burger," and just showed up. There's such power in that.
TAPPER: Well, it's an amazing book, "Option B." Sheryl Sandberg, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.
SANDBERG: Thank you for having me.
TAPPER: Be sure to follow me on Facebook and Twitter @JAKETAPPER. You can twit the show @THELEADCNN. We actually read them.
That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. Be sure to tune in tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. and again at 9:00 p.m. I turn you over now to Mr. Don Lemon with "CNN TONIGHT." Thank you for watching.