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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Teens Kill Grandparents, Then Party; Cops Mistake Black Teens for Armed Suspects; Dramatic Body Cam Video; Murder Trial Starts; Mom`s Mayhem on Video. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired April 25, 2017 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[20:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was very unexpected.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST (voice-over): The face of an angel, but police say she behaved like the devil.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dragged her grandmother into her grandfather`s bedroom. She was duct-taped.
BANFIELD: Did Cassie and her boyfriend Johnny kill her grandparents and then party for a week with their bodies upstairs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Johnny began to attack the grandfather.
BANFIELD: Those victims may have been just the beginning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cassie then said that she had a surge of energy.
BANFIELD: And another victim, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not in another million years did I think something like this would ever happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground!
BANFIELD: Children held at gunpoint after police are tipped off that a group of kids has a gun, just 12 to 14 years old. Tensions are on the
rise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just keep your hands out, OK?
BANFIELD: Officers trying to stay safe and find that gun. But these were the wrong kids wearing the same clothes, and the parents went into a panic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t help it! That`s my baby!
BANFIELD: A receptionist on trial, accused of poisoning her boss.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family member felt that Merry`s (ph) death was suspicious.
BANFIELD: Did Caitlin Connolly (ph) use a little-known drug to commit murder undetected?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it`s used for gout medicine.
BANFIELD: So how did the trail lead back to her? And how did they trace that drug?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A research grade (INAUDIBLE) more pure form than the pill form.
BANFIELD: Drunk and disorderly driving. Police said a woman sped and smashed her way through several cars before finally crashing out. A
shocking find, two little kids in the back of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How old are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
BANFIELD: So why was she surprised when she heard this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone needs to come and get the kids. You`re going to jail for DWI.
BANFIELD: And it just went from bad to worse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you (INAUDIBLE)
BANFIELD: And a stomach-churning surveillance video, a toddler running across a busy road. She`s run over by a car, and then a second one, too.
So how on earth did the girl in the little pink coat survive?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Hello, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
One thing stands out when you look at Cassie Bjorge. Actually, a couple things stand out. She looks like she could be a standout on the
cheerleading squad or the most popular girl in school, maybe even captain of the debate team. But what you would never imagine about Cassie is that
she`s a diabolical killer who butchered her grandparents and then partied with their bodies in the house for a week. And yet that is exactly how the
police are describing her.
Those grandparents were kind enough to fight for custody of Cassie, search for Cassie each time she ran away, and feed and clothe Cassie for years.
And still, police say Cassie and her 19-year-old boyfriend, Johnny Rider, planned their murder for days, and even laid in wait until the lights went
out and the grandparents went to bed. They were duct-taped, beaten with a tire iron, and their throats were slashed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVE BRUCZ, GWINNETT COUNTY, GA, POLICE: Johnny began to attack the grandfather. Cassie then said that she was -- basically, had a surge of
energy. She then dragged her grandmother into her grandfather`s bedroom. She was duct-taped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: When police zeroed in on Cassie and Johnny, a standoff with the SWAT team ensued, and it only ended when the two tried but failed to kill
themselves. And it gets worse. Police say in a Manson family kind of plan, Cassie Bjorge may have intended to kill even more people, people you
would least expect.
Want to begin with Tina Douglas, who`s an anchor-reporter for news radio 106.7 in Atlanta. The plot is remarkable, Tina, the details even more
remarkable. And perhaps the most stunning part of a lot of this is that Cassie has been talking to the police.
TINA DOUGLAS, 106.7: Yes, she has. She`s said quite a bit. Her boyfriend, Johnny Rider, though, isn`t saying much about what went on in
this home and what their plans were. But she`s had plenty to say in court.
BANFIELD: How do they know about the details of the house party, that kids were there, that this went on for days, that there was marijuana in the
house? How did the police know those details?
DOUGLAS: Apparently, she`s been talking a lot in court about what went on after her grandparents were murdered, and she has shed a lot of information
to the courts about the behavior of her and her boyfriend after this heinous crime.
[20:05:04]BANFIELD: And the detectives who`ve been investigating have said a few things, as well. And you don`t often hear this about a young woman
when it comes to her own grandparents, but here`s what one of the homicide detectives had to say about what happened after those grandparents had been
beaten to death. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUCZ: They did hang out in the residence and smoked marijuana for a few days. She admitted that after the murder, she was texting family members
because they were worried about them and she was pretending to be Wendy (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Pretending, Tina, to be Wendy, her own grandmother, speaking on behalf of the grandmother, whose body presumably was rotting upstairs, to
other family members. Is that accurate?
DOUGLAS: That is the information that we have received about the things that were brought out in court last week when they made their appearance
there. Apparently, they had caulked several windows and the front door of the home so they could eliminate any odors emanating from the house.
BANFIELD: And there is also new evidence in this case that`s come out regarding what detectives say was a bit of a hit list, that this couple had
plans to kill several other people. Who were they?
DOUGLAS: They also had plans to kill his family and her mother. But apparently, they were scared away or either her boyfriend was scared away,
according to her, because there were several cars in the driveway. Now, I don`t know if that meant the driveway of her home or his family`s home that
kind of spooked them. And so that`s why they didn`t carry that out, according to her.
BANFIELD: I can only imagine what it would be like to be Cassie`s mother hearing the news that she might have actually been on a hit list, that
there was a plan to have her killed, as well. Tina, stand by for a minute.
I want to bring in Alex Manning because Alex is the attorney for Cassie`s mother. Alex, can you hear me?
ALEX MANNING, ATTORNEY FOR CASSIE`S MOTHER (via telephone): Yes, I can hear you.
BANFIELD: What was your client, Amanda`s, reaction when she heard that detail that, allegedly, her own daughter was planning her to be next?
MANNING: Well, when she found out that Amanda was -- I mean, Cassie was being accused of killing her -- her -- you know, Amanda`s parents, Cassie`s
grandparents, she didn`t think things could get any worse until she went to the preliminary hearing and found out that she was actually on a hit list.
She could barely walk out of the courtroom that day. She was devastated.
BANFIELD: And yet, strangely enough, and correct me if I`m wrong, an overture has actually come from Cassie. She wants to communicate with her
mother. Tell me about that.
MANNING: My client has received a message from Cassie either wanting her mother to visit her at the jail or talk to her on the phone. And any
client is not inclined in any way, shape, or form at this time to communicate with Cassie in any form or fashion.
BANFIELD: I just seized on a little detail that you said, "at this time" is not inclined. Is that possible to change, Alex?
MANNING: I don`t know. I can`t imagine to begin how Amanda feels at all. And you know, I think she`s struggling with the fact that it is her
daughter. Her daughter had some behavioral problems. (INAUDIBLE) custody battle. She was having behavioral problems in the beginning. And there`s
a mother-daughter relationship between Amanda and Wendy that I don`t think anybody will ever know all the details to. But it was -- there was some
bitter, OK?
So we, myself and Amanda, agreed that we would let Cassie go with Wendy. And the thing is, is that her bad behavior escalated, with only contact in
November from Amanda that was, you know, started by Cassie, who sent her a message on Facebook, you know, Mom, how are you, or something. She
responded, Hey, Cassie (INAUDIBLE) had never really heard anything else. There were times Cassie...
BANFIELD: Well, Alex, let me stop you for a moment there. Let me stop you for a moment there only because our audience should know this is a
complicated family. Your client, Amanda, effectively shifted the custody of Cassie over to these grandparents, Wendy and Randall.
MANNING: Yes.
BANFIELD: Now Wendy and Randall are dead. Amanda (ph) is facing possibly going to prison for the rest of, possibly, most of her life, anyway -- it`s
complicated when, you know, you`re under 18.
MANNING: Right.
BANFIELD: But Amanda has lost her parents and is going to lose her daughter. And yet there doesn`t seem to be a lot of love lost between any
of them. How is she processing all of this emotionally?
MANNING: She`s changed jobs. She used to work with her dad. And she`s really trying her best to remain wallpaper right now and figure out how to
process it. She just can`t do it, you know?
[20:10:08]The police were called over 30 times out there once she went to stay with her grandma, Wendy. Wendy never reached out to Amanda and said,
Cassie is a problem, you were right, Amanda. And this is how -- well, we went back to court in January because Cassie had -- one of the times where
she`d Wendy. And once again, Wendy blamed it on Amanda, that it was Amanda...
BANFIELD: But Alex, without...
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: Without ascribing blame, as, you know, the parties...
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: The parties aren`t here to answer for it, I do want to ask you - - there was an incident. Can you confirm that Cassie attacked her grandmother and the police were called in and did charge her? Is that
accurate?
MANNING: That`s what I was -- and I wasn`t ascribing blame at all. I would never do that. But yes, that was the time. But once again, Wendy
kind of laid the blame and so it`s kind of that whole dynamic between the women of this family that -- I don`t know. Wendy never reached out to her
again and asked for help.
BANFIELD: OK, I want to get Tina back in for another detail. Tina, as we look at the video of Cassie in court, she is bandaged to the hilt. She`s
got a bandage on her neck. She`s got bandages up both arms. I am only presuming without the benefit of fact here that this is a result of that
standoff that led with this apparent suicide attack. Do you know anything about these bandages?
DOUGLAS: According to what we know, that is exactly right, that her and her boyfriend, once they were cornered, tried to take their own lives, and
that is cover up or to help mend those injuries that they reportedly inflicted on themselves.
BANFIELD: And the one last detail, and that is the kids that came to the house party or parties after those grandparents had been murdered and were
upstairs decomposing in this house...
DOUGLAS: Right.
BANFIELD: The police had put out a call for parents to ask their kids if they`d been to this house. Did they find those kids? And did those kids
talk to the police about what they knew?
DOUGLAS: That is an ongoing investigation. And according to what we know, I`m sure they`re trying to track down as many of those kids as they can to
find out what they knew about what was going on in that home and if they were even aware that Cassie`s grandparents were in the home.
From the initial information that we`ve received, the kids that were attending the parties at the house had no idea, had no idea the
grandparents were there. In fact, I believe some of them were told that the grandparents were out of town or just not in the home.
BANFIELD: What a tragedy. Tina Douglas, thank you for that. Alex Manning, thank you, as well, for your input. We`ll continue to watch this
case.
Every day somewhere in America, police are asked to respond to a call about someone with a gun. But there is one response in Michigan that now has a
lot of people asking questions after five young kids were mistaken for armed suspects.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come over here! Keep your hands where I can see them and get on the ground! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Did the officers respond correctly? Was there something else they could have done? Three of the boys` parents are going to join us to
talk about this next, as will the police with their side of the story, too.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:17:36]BANFIELD: There is perhaps no better video that shows the fear, the stress and frustration that both black lives and blue lives endure when
they collide in the vague circumstances and high tension. But some brand- new bodycam video from police in Grand Rapids, Michigan, puts a lot into perspective for both camps.
Police got a call about a group of kids, one of them with a gun. But when they arrived, they asked the witness what he had seen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) probably saw someone drop a revolver (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) all black?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was all -- the kid was in -- he was dressed in all black, and there was another kid who was trying to call him back, kind of
light-skinned (INAUDIBLE) he had a red top and a black (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) sports jacket-type zipup. And the kid who dropped it was in all black. And he was calling the other kid in the red
and black to come back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He dropped a revolver, you said?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) all black (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just (INAUDIBLE) not even five minutes ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Not two blocks away, police come upon this group of children appearing to match the witness description, between the ages of 12 and 14,
one kid in a red top, one all in black. And with guns drawn, they order all five children to get face down on the pavement. On the video, you can
hear the officers` concerns, and you can hear the kids begging them to put that gun down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys, get on the ground. Keep your hands out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did we do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, come over here. Keep your hands where I can see them and get on the ground! Get on the ground! Get on the ground. Get on
the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 19 (INAUDIBLE) at gunpoint. They`re being compliant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just keep your hands out, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) He`s my son! (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Ma`am, can you go back in your house for me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did we do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, go back in your house. Go back in your house now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) Oh! Oh!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, go back in your house. Go back in your house now.
[20:20:12]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did we do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re giving you directions, OK? Just follow our directions, and we`ll be all right, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you want to this, Troy (ph)? Do you want to just approach?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: There is much more video, and it shows a sense of fear and perhaps outrage that only a parent could feel in an incident like that.
And there is also the officer`s side of the story.
I want to bring in Jacquetta and Bomesa Sims. Two of their sons were among that group of children asked to lie face down, and Shawndryka Moore whose
son was also in the group. Welcome to all three of you, and thank you all for being here.
I can`t imagine what you went through. I could heard a voice of someone who knew some of those children, and she sounded devastated watching the
scene that she saw unfold. Shawndryka, take me from your perspective to what went through your mind when you first realized what was going on.
SHAWNDRYKA MOORE, MOTHER: The first thing that went through my mind was just fear. I was scared. I didn`t know what had happened. I was very
scared. I thought my son was hurt. I thought he had been hurt by the police or something. I don`t know what was actually -- I didn`t know how
to feel. I was just scared, terrified.
BANFIELD: And Jacquetta, you had two children. Shawndryka has a 14-year- old, you have a 12 and a 14-year-old, you and your husband, Bomesa. Two of your children were in that group. When did you come upon the scene, and
what were your first thoughts?
JACQUETTA SIMS, MOTHER: Well, my first thoughts where when we first got the call, were that something had happened, and the police said that they
did not do anything wrong. We did not know that they were held at gunpoint once I first initially got the call. They let us know it was an incident
at the Crock (ph) Center, but they failed to mention anything else until I actually got to the screen.
BANFIELD: So there is a part of the tape -- Shawndryka, I want to go back to you for a moment because I watched you as you had a conversation with
the officers about how terrified you were about what had been happening. And I think your body language is worth a million words. I want to play
that for our audience and ask you about it. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just happened to be possibly at the wrong place at the wrong time, matching the clothing these kids had. OK? Like you said,
your son is fine (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) but you all got to understand that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand! But you have to understand...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s my baby right there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen, you have to understand our position, as well. We have to investigate...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, but when a mother come (INAUDIBLE) just show me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the way you were acting, I couldn`t...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t help it! That`s my baby!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand. I`m a parent, as well, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve never -- we don`t deal with police! I don`t ever even have no child (INAUDIBLE) We don`t do this! All the stuff that
goes on in this world, I worry about my kids every day. That`s why I don`t let them go nowhere. And to come around here to this, people banging on my
door (INAUDIBLE) Do you know how that made me feel?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Shawndryka, the -- I said your body language said it all, and I really saw that the -- the anxiety that you were going through. At the
same time, were you able to understand the officer`s perspective? Did it resonate at all? Did you feel anything in terms of where they were coming
from in the way he was explaining it?
MOORE: Yes, I did. I understood what he was saying. And I -- you know, I get that part. But at that time, I just wanted to see my son and make sure
he was OK. You know, like I said, all the stuff going on in this world, especially with police officers and black people, it scared me. So I
understood what he was saying, but he had to understand where I was coming to it from a mother`s perspective. I needed to know my son was OK before I
talk with you. Just let me know everything is OK.
BANFIELD: And Bomesa, from a father`s perspective, clearly -- it is not lost on the three of you how much we have seen on the news about
interactions between the black community and police officers. And that may have formed the foundation for how you believe this might have played out.
Ultimately, Bomesa, one of the officers said to you this is a case of mistaken identity and the kids were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
How did you react to that?
[20:25:00]BOMESA SIMS, FATHER: Well, I simply told them they were at the right place at the wrong time. Our kids go to the Crock to play basketball
all the time, like three or four times a week. And for them to be leaving and just be rode (ph) down on like that, with guns drawn, you know, it`s
devastating.
I`m 38 years old, and I`ve had many situations with the police, but never have I had guns being drawn out on me. So imagine my 12 and 14-year-old,
that happening to them. I couldn`t think straight driving to the scene. You know, then the officers always want you to just understand their point,
like their point is the greatest thing of all. And that`s not the truth, especially when you`re dealing with minors.
BANFIELD: So I`m guessing that the three of you have had some pretty intense conversations with your boys at home about what`s happened and sort
of how to process this going forward. I`d love to hear how they are and how they`ve reacted and how this has affected them. And all three of you,
either one of you, you know, you can each, you know, give me your -- you know, your perspective on that.
B. SIMS: Well, I feel like -- I mean, our boys -- it`s a day that they think, you know, we had got to a point where it had kind of died down here.
We were still having conversations, but as far as it being all over social media, it wasn`t really like that.
But then once the bodycams got released -- I mean, when we first saw them, I knew that once the public seen those tapes, the perception was going to
go totally different because the video that was originally aired on Facebook does it no justice compared to the bodycams.
So you know, now they`re frustrated with all of the attention that they`re getting. You know, kids at school, teachers, you know, everybody is coming
to them saying, We saw you. So you know, it`s a day-to-day thing for our boys. You know, they ask us questions all the time, like, you know, What
could we have done for this to not happen? And I`m,like, it`s just the case of walking while black. You know, that`s just how I look at it.
BANFIELD: A lot of people who are watching, you know, would probably see - - I hope would see both perspectives from the videotape and also from hearing the three of you.
I also want to bring in Sergeant Terry Dixon, if I may. He`s the public information officer with the Grand Rapids Police Department. You know,
thank you so much for also being a part of this tonight. I want to ask you, is there anything that could have been done differently? Was there
anything that wasn`t done properly?
ST. TERRY DIXON, GRAND RAPIDS PD (via telephone): Well, the first thing I would like to say is that the police department -- our chief of police and
also our leadership, we all are disturbed as to what took place here. This was a very unfortunate incident that we -- we wouldn`t like any of our
youth here in Grand Rapids to go through. So we do feel for the family.
As far as the situation, how it -- how it evolved, the officers were responding to what they felt was a credible threat, a credible report of a
person, a teenager with a revolver. The witness appeared to be credible, right on down to the description.
As the officer approached a group that he believed that matched the description, it is his responsibility to investigate that. And he did
that. Once -- it is our -- it is the police department -- its responsibility is to protect the citizens and the officers on scene. And
in order to do that, the officer has to exhibit control in the face of a reasonable threat of harm to himself or others. And he exercised that, and
he gave clear...
BANFIELD: So Sergeant Dixon -- Sergeant Dixon, I`m sorry to cut you off. I just do want to ask you, though, that ultimately, these were five, you
know, completely innocent kids who were just out playing in their neighborhood, and everybody in America should have that right and should
feel safe doing that.
To that end, I know that these parents have said they wanted an apology from the Grand Rapids Police. Is that forthcoming?
DIXON: They have received an apology from our chief of police. The chief of police has met with the commissioners in our town. The chief has also
met with various organizations, including the family and the young men themselves, and he has offered an apology regarding the situation and how
unfortunate that this is.
BANFIELD: So Shawndryka, I was watching you -- I`m going to ask you another question, Sergeant, but I do want to get Shawndryka`s reaction. I
think I saw you sort of -- it felt somewhat hollow.
[20:30:00] Did you not feel like you got an apology from the chief?
MOORE: The boy didn`t get a sincere apology. You know, I felt it was from the chief, but the chief didn`t pull his gun on them either. It was the
officers. And I feel if the officers would have did it, it would make the boys feel a little more safer and a little more -- it would make them gain
their trust back with the police officers, if the officers, you know, themselves apologized to our boys, which never happened.
BANFIELD: So, Sergeant Dixon, Shawndryka makes a very interesting point. You know, these are children who are so impressionable. These are good kids
who may have, you know, a traumatized image now of what policing is. In the spirit of trying to work and get these communities together, Sergeant
Dixon, is there something that can be done better? Is there an overture that can be made to these families to change the mood?
DIXON: Well, here in Grand Rapids, the chief of police is responsible for all the policing activity that happens in the community here. He did extend
an apology on behalf of the officers who were exercising their responsibility under the chief`s direction. In this particular situation,
what we have is -- we are very sensitive of what the youth are going through. But we have to remember.
MOORE: No, you`re not sensitive to what the youth are going through.
DIXON: We are responding to what we perceived as a credible threat. We did not know that these youth did not have a gun. We encounter youth with guns
and weapons a total of seven times this year, in 2017 alone. So we have to respond with due regard of safety to citizens and the officers.
BANFIELD: So let me ask that one question, and any of you can answer this. What the officer is saying is that there was a report of a child with a
gun. And if a child had a gun and shot another child, wouldn`t it be on the police for not having done something? If I`m getting it right, there`s sort
of dammed if they do, damned if they don`t, given the credible -- what they felt was credible witness account that they got. Isn`t that resonate with
you, guys?
SIMS: We`re not saying that the officers did not follow protocol. We`re not saying that they did not do it. What we`re saying is (inaudible) all the
youth should be different, period. They should not be five, six guns, five guns and a taser on these boys. What you don`t see is the body cams that we
saw. The only body cam that you all see is Caleb Johnson. We saw every last officer`s body cam that was there. You know, you guys didn`t see that in
the public eye, but we did as parents.
SIMS: Also, the police chief didn`t offer us an apology on behalf of his officers. What he said to us was, he would -- he said, I apologize as a man
and as a father. But I will not apologize for the actions of my officers.
MOORE: Exactly.
B. SIMS: So, to me, that`s not an apology on behalf of his officers.
MOORE: Exactly.
B. SIMS: And our kids are the ones that originally asked for the apology. It wasn`t us as parents. I couldn`t care less about an apology from the
GRPD, because at this point, you put out these body cams that of course are edited, and you also don`t blur out our children`s face.
MOORE: Right.
B. SIMS: I`m sure right now you`ve probably showed a video with our boy`s face blurred.
BANFIELD: No, we haven`t. And I promise you that, we don`t. We always digitize children`s faces unless parents give us permission to do it. We
wouldn`t do that to you.
B. SIMS: No, I`m saying the police.
J. SIMS: Not you. When they first put it out, they didn`t blur out the kids.
B. SIMS: When they first released it, they didn`t blur out our kids.
BANFIELD: So, I do have this question. Obviously I`m a white woman with white kids who doesn`t feel these same terrors in the same way that you do,
and that is palpable in this country. At the same time, these police officers said two, I believe, two weeks later there was a 14-year-old boy
who had a gun in that neighborhood.
If they had come upon the group of kids the witness saw and if in truth there had been a gun, what should the officers have done were that group of
kids and there was a threat of a possible gun?
B. SIMS: I`ve seen countless videos on Facebook. I also know that police have discretion. I`ve seen countless videos where they`ve got calls about
guns, and they didn`t just jump out on a person and put out a gun. I saw one where a guy, I couldn`t tell if he was Mexican or white, but they got a
call about him and they said, sir, can we talk to you for a minute?
[20:35:00] You know, but you see five boys walking with obviously basketball gear and a basketball in their hand, and you don`t even say hey,
let me talk to you for a minute. You automatically pull your guns out. To me, that`s excessive and that`s overboard, period.
BANFIELD: Sergeant Terry Dixon.
MOORE: Had those boys actually did have a gun, went and shot somebody, they wasted too much time doing what they did to our boys (inaudible).
BANFIELD: Sergeant Terry Dixon, I want to wrap this up just by saying if the apology doesn`t feel sincere enough, personalized enough from the
chief, is there something more that can be forthcoming from the Grand Rapids PD?
DIXON: We`ve met with them several times. What we would like to do is develop relationships with those young men, bring them into the fold of the
GRPD. We would love for them some day to wear the GRPD blue. This is a very honorable profession. The officers exhibited professionalism in the course
of their duties. Just this past weekend, we did have the almost exact situation, where there were six youth.
One was 12, one was 14, and the other one was 16. We did recover a gun from the 14-year-old. This is unfortunately the situation in our city
neighborhoods. And the officers have to act with due regard for the safety of citizens and the officers themselves.
BANFIELD: I`m going to have to wrap it there. I can`t tell you how much I appreciate all four of you coming on the air and giving a very frank
discussion, in truly very difficult times to have frank discussions. There is so much sensitivity and so much concern on both sides. Shawndryka Moore,
Jacquetta and Bomese Sims, and Sergeant Terry Dixon, thank you all. I do appreciate your time tonight. We`ll be right back.
[20:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Be honest. Many people at some point have muttered, I want to kill my boss, right? You don`t really mean it. It`s a far cry from actually
doing it. But tonight, a young receptionist is on trial for allegedly doing just that. The victim, a doctor, Mary Yoder, was a popular chiropractor in
upstate New York. She suddenly fell ill mysteriously in July of 2015, left the office. Her symptoms kept getting worse. She was rushed to the ER. 48
hours later, she was dead. The cause, an utter mystery. Until the autopsy showed something strange. She had been poisoned with a drug that is used to
treat gout.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT NELSON, ONEIDA COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: This colchicine is used for gout medicine. But this colchicine in this case was a research grade
colchicine in this case. It`s a more pure form than the pill form.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Naturally the investigators did what they typically do. They look to the husband first. Didn`t work out. Then they looked to the son. Didn`t
work out. And then a weird breakthrough. The sheriff and the medical examiner got an anonymous letter claiming to know who poisoned Dr. Yoder.
So they forensically tested that letter, of course. It had come from Mary`s own medical practice. That`s when the evidence started to pile up directly
in the this person`s lap, Kaitlyn Conley.
She worked at the practice. She was also the ex-girlfriend of the victim`s son. But why would the receptionist poison her boss? It`s obviously a big
question for this trial. I want to start with Joleen Ferris. She is a reporter for CNN affiliate WKTV. What could possibly the motive be that
would point to Kaitlyn in this case?
JOLEEN FERRIS, REPORTER FOR CNN AFFILIATE WKTV: That`s a good question, Ashleigh. Actually today during opening arguments, the prosecutor, Laurie
Lisi, actually said to the jury, police do not require that I prove motive in this case because the law does not require that of me.
But then she said, having said that, that the people do intend to provide some idea or ideas about what might have been Kaitlyn Conley`s motive in
killing her boss, Mary Yoder. She didn`t mention that motive specifically today, but they did keep alluding to Kaitlyn Conley`s on again/off again
relationship with the Dr. Yoder`s son, Adam.
BANFIELD: So if the prosecutors are going there saying look, she was breaking up often with the son of this victim, there is this allegation
that she put the pill bottle underneath the son`s seat in his car and then, you know, tipped the police off to take a look at the son. The defense is
pointing to the victim`s husband, saying they weren`t that happy.
In fact, he may have even suffered from gout, according to someone in the practice being overheard, also suggesting that perhaps the day that this
happened, the husband was mysteriously absent from work, something he was rarely known to do. Are those going to be the competing stories in this
courtroom? Is that seem what is happening here, Joleen?
FERRIS: Ashleigh, the big bombshell about the widower today, Bill Yoder, the defense attorney basically during his opening accused Bill Yoder, the
widow, of the murder. Now, the prosecution did say early on in their opening arguments that they told the jurors that they`re going to hear in
the trial that William Yoder, the widower, is now in a relationship with the victim`s sister, his wife`s sister.
BANFIELD: That`s never good.
FERRIS: That`s the big bombshell today. And following up on that, the defense that they have direct evidence, two, possibly three witnesses who
are going to take the stand and say that up to six months prior to Mary Yoder`s death, her husband was seen with her sister in a nearby city,
lovey-dovey was the way he put it. So, that`s going to be the big thing a lot of people are, you know, watching to see how that winds up.
[20:45:00] I`m sure we haven`t heard, you know, the bulk of Yoder`s case yet really.
BANFIELD: Sure. Let me bring in Gaylord Lopez. He is the managing director of the Georgia Poison Center. As I understand it, this is a really crafty
way to kill someone, if that`s what the plan is, because we can`t detect colchicine in the system, all of the typical tests. They don`t actually
look for it or is it just really hard to find?
GAYLORD LOPEZ, MANAGING DIRECTOR, GEORGIA POISON CENTER: Well, number one, there are tests out there that hospitals have easy access to that can
determine whether or not colchicine was used. We`re talking about a drug with very narrow therapeutic window, meaning you can`t really tell the
difference between a dose that is nontoxic, a dose that is toxic, and a dose that can kill.
BANFIELD: Well, it was a very, very painful way for Ms. Yoder to die, that`s for sure. Real quickly, I want to bring in Danny Cevallos and Eric
Guster. Both defense attorneys and both who probably look at this case in unique ways without question. She turned down a plea deal, guys. She`s
going to go to trial. There is no motive. And I know you don`t have to prove it, but juries want to see motive, don`t they?
DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: If I`m prosecuting this case, I want to develop a motive, not because it`s an element of the crime, but just so the
jury understands why it happened. And the other thing is a prosecution I need to be concerned about is causation. That`s surely something the
defense is going to bring up.
This kind of poison, sure it could have killed the doctor, but it could have been a number of other reasons. These are the things that the
prosecution has to shore up at trial and make sure they hammer it home for an airtight case.
BANFIELD: Weirdly, Kaitlyn Conley admitted to the police that she was the one who sent the anonymous letter to the police, telling them I know that
the victim died from colchicine. Is that kind of a nail in her coffin?
ERIC GUSTER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not necessarily because there are times where you can keep some of those letters out because the judge may see that
it is not relevant to the case.
BANFIELD: Oh, that`s relevant.
GUSTER: It may not be.
(LAUGHTER)
GUSTER: There are oftentimes, legal reasoning for something to not be relevant. In this case, we don`t know, similar to what Danny said, the
causation. We don`t know who was giving her the drugs. We don`t know who provided it, whether she was taking it herself. So those are the types of
things that the defense is going to bring up to say, hey, it`s not my client, it`s someone else.
BANFIELD: Okay. A high speed chase involving a DWI suspect, not something that`s new. But the police certainly were shocked when they finally caught
up with the driver they had been after, and what was in her back seat, not to mention how she was behaving when they caught her.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you hurt?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, we`re not hurt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Five.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: For most of us, taking the kids for an evening drive doesn`t usually include mayhem, a string of accidents, a high-speed chase, a
sobriety test, and a stay at the local jail. But police in Albuquerque were getting calls that an SUV was going crazy, was kind of swerving into other
vehicles on a highway, hit a median and finally came to a stop after hitting some parked cars, blowing out a tire.
And then they met this lady, Shirlena Charley, throwing F-bombs and some insults to the cops. And you kind of have the picture of what it was like
for these cops to respond to this call. Just the surface of the story.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone needs to come and get the kids. You`re going to jail for DWI.
SHIRLENA CHARLEY, BOOKED ON TWO FELONY COUNTS OF CHILD ABUSE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yep, turn around and put your hands behind your back.
CHARLEY: (beep) bald head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you hurt?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, we`re not hurt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Five.
CHARLEY: Can I put my shoe on right before you tell me to walk?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know, can you?
CHARLEY: Don`t you disrespect me like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your license is suspended. You shouldn`t be driving.
CHARLEY: I don`t (beep) I know that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you don`t.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: "Don`t disrespect me like that." I`m going to drop every swear word in the book, but don`t disrespect me. Eric and Danny, I know you had
clients like this. What do you do? How do you even begin?
CEVALLOS: First of all, defense attorneys will tell you, these clients never mention that they were engaged in these shenanigans, yelling at cops.
You only learn that when you get that when you first talk to the police or you get the video.
GUSTER: Or with video.
CEVALLOS: And you have that palm to the forehead moment, sometimes in open court. We all get sandbags.
GUSTER: And municipalities, they get the videos very late, so you may see it the day of court. That`s what you walk into. You walk into, you know,
World War III and this is all you have.
BANFIELD: Can I ask you something? I want to just show that video again, but I want to spot shadow the officer who had her cuffed when they got back
to the station and she`s going on and on, yelling all of these profanities, and look at him. Watch what he`s -- he`s like, here we go again.
GUSTER: He`s not bald-headed. She said he was bald-headed. I`m looking for a bald-headed guy. That`s not him.
BANFIELD: I think there was an F-you, baldy.
GUSTER: Yes.
CEVALLOS: They love this stuff, it`s so entertaining. They know it`s all on video and they know it`s going to be an easy case. They`re not going to
have to worry about court on this one.
BANFIELD: And is this easy?
GUSTER: This is one of those cases where cameras work.
BANFIELD: Yup.
GUSTER: The body cams work. They help prosecute this case. Before body cams, you can argue this didn`t happen, the police officer made it up. But
now they have it all on tape from different angles.
BANFIELD: She`s in trouble. She`s in trouble. There were two kids in the back of that car. She`s facing two charges of felony child abuse.
GUSTER: (inaudible).
CEVALLOS: We call it super duper trouble.
BANFIELD: Super duper trouble.
CEVALLOS: Yes.
BANFIELD: Back right after this.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: So, check your calendar. It`s April 25th. And I have it emblazoned on all of my devices. April 25th is a creepily important day for
me. The world shuts down, it`s my mother`s birthday. So look at this woman. There is a true crime that`s going on here, because my mother, she`s going
to kill me, is 79. Look at her! That is the crime on this crime and justice show tonight. That woman, I don`t know how she does it, but there`s an
attic painting somewhere that`s going crazy.
(LAUGHTER)
BANFIELD: And Danny laughs, because Danny met my mom, Susie.
CEVALLOS: Oh, I love Susie. I miss her. I haven`t seen her in a long time. Happy birthday.
BANFIELD: Eric, (inaudible).
GUSTER: Not yet.
BANFIELD: Happy birthday, mom.
GUSTER: Happy birthday.
BANFIELD: You`re awesome. I owe everything to you. And I really mean that. I`m all misty. Happy birthday, Susie. Happy birthday, mom. And thank you,
everyone, for watching. We`ll be back tomorrow night 8:00 for PRIMETIME JUSTICE. In the meantime, "FORENSIC FILES" is next.
[21:00:00]
END
