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N. Korea Conducts Artillery Drills as U.S. Sub Arrives in S. Korea; Michael Flynn May Have Broken Law in Not Disclosing Russian Payments; Criticism After State Department Promotes Trump's Mar-a-Lago Resort; White House Press Briefing Minutes Away. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired April 25, 2017 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[13:30:00] DAVID ROHDE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: The fear is this unpredictability that there is a possibility -- they want the Chinese to think the Trump administration could carry out a unilateral military strike against North Korea. That's very unlikely. This artillery activity in North Korea is designed to show why that would be so dangerous. Many of these weapons could reach Seoul. You could take out and damage the nuclear capability, but you'd have an immediate retaliatory artillery strikes against Seoul that could kill tens of thousands of civilians and many American soldiers as well. An immediate unliteral U.S. strike doesn't solve this.
BLITZER: I've been, and I'm sure you have, along the demilitarized zone. You see the conventional weapons, the artillery pieces, the missile launches that North Korea has. They have a million troops north of the DMZ. South Korea has almost a million troops, 28,000 U.S. troops. The city of Seoul is only 30 miles away from the DMZ and there's 15 or 20 million people right there. In terms of conventional destruction, it could be awful.
ROHDE: It's awful. This really is the biggest, I think, and most important foreign policy challenge President Trump faces. He's banking on this personal relationship he hopefully developed with President Xi when they met in Mar-a-Lago recently. But the key player is China. Will they do more? We don't know. There's a lot of fear going on, a lot of bluffing on both sides. Will China really push North Korea? That's the key question.
BLITZER: I notice Air China has announced they will resume flights between Beijing and Pyongyang. So I don't know how significant that is.
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BLITZER: They were suspended for a couple of weeks and now they're about to resume.
David Rohde, thanks very much for joining us.
ROHDE: Thank you.
BLITZER: Still ahead, the breaking news we're following. The president's former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, may not have followed the law when he joined the president's White House team.
And take a look at the live pictures coming from the White House briefing room. We're standing by. Press Secretary Sean Spicer about to come out, take reporters' questions. We'll have live coverage of that once it begins.
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[13:35:57] BLITZER: It's day 96 of the Trump presidency. Take a look at this. Live pictures, once again, coming in to CNN from the White House briefing room. The Press Secretary Sean Spicer should be coming out fairly soon to start taking questions from reporters. We'll, of course, bring it to you live once it begins.
I want to get back to our top story this hour. The chairman and the ranking member of the House Oversight Committee say it appears the former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, failed to follow the law by not properly disclosing payments from Russia. Flynn received $45,000 for a speaking engagement in Russia.
Congressman Jason Chaffetz, he's the Republican chairman, he says he sees no indication that Flynn received permission from the Pentagon or the State Department, or that he disclosed payment for that speech in his security clearance application back in February.
President Trump came to Flynn's defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I looked at the information, I said I don't think he did anything wrong. If anything, he did something right. He was coming into office. He looked at the information. He said, huh, that's funny. That's what they're supposed to do. He didn't just call Russia. He called and spoke to both ways -- I think there were 37 some-odd countries. He was just doing his job. The thing is, he didn't tell our vice president properly, and then he said he didn't remember. So either way, it wasn't very satisfactory to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: That's why he fired him.
I want to discuss that and more with Congressman Brendan Boyle. He's a Democrat from Pennsylvania, a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.
Congressman, thanks for joining us.
REP. BRENDAN BOYLE, (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Thank you, Wolf.
So you see Jason Chaffetz, the Republican chairman, and Elijah Cummings, the Democrat, the ranking member of that Oversight Committee, they're both jointly calling the situation extremely troubling. And the White House is denying a request to provide documents related to Flynn. What needs to happen next? BOYLE: I think, Wolf, clearly, that while Jason Chaffetz used the
term inappropriate, they both used the term troubling, I'll use a different term, and that's criminal. When you have someone, who was at that point the national security adviser, to be accepting $45,000 from the Russian government, not disclosing that information to the White House, that in and of itself is criminal. And then second, the judgment of President Trump to appoint this person to head the NSC, and now after the fact not cooperating with an investigation, it's yet another layer, a part of this larger Trump/Russia investigation that needs to continue both on the FBI side as well as here in Congress with the House committee and Senate committee.
BLITZER: We just got a statement in from Senator Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader in the Senate. Let me read it to you and our viewers, Congressman: "The disturbing news that General Flynn may have violated the law in connection with his security clearance may be just the tip of the iceberg. These revelations highlight the importance of the Intelligence Committee working in a bipartisan way to request and receive documents with respect to any financial arrangements Flynn and others in similar positions may have had with foreign governments."
When he says tip of the iceberg, do you have any inside information what he might be referring to?
BOYLE: No. Not something I would be comfortable talking about in an unclassified setting. But what I would say is that the integrity of the investigation into this matter has to be 100 percent above reproach. That's when we had my colleague, Devin Nunes, acting in a bizarre way, I'm glad he finally recused himself and stepped down so that way the House Intel Committee could move on to having a real investigation. We understand that the Senate investigation is at least appearing to proceed in a bipartisan basis. And then, of course, we don't know what FBI Director Comey and the folks on the Justice Department side are doing, which is happening in parallel. The fact that you have someone as responsible as the Senate minority leader saying that this may be the tip of the iceberg shows the seriousness of what is involved here. So it's so important that all of us put country ahead of party and get to the bottom of this.
Not to mention, by the way, right now, we have important elections going on in France and Germany. So we have to find out what happened in the U.S. in 2016 and then move to prevent that in the future from our allies and our next election.
[13:40:37] BLITZER: Upcoming elections in the United Kingdom in Britain. Lots of elections. Lots of elections coming up.
BOYLE: That's right.
BLITZER: Let's talk about the situation in North Korea. The U.S. has sent a nuclear submarine to the area. The North Korean leader, Kim Jong-Un, threatening to blow up U.S. ships, blow them out of the water. If provoked, is President Trump, from your perspective, Congressman, taking the right approach right now in dealing with North Korea, this nuclear threat? BOYLE: Well, on this, I'm actually going to cut President Trump some
slack. This has been a challenge through the administrations of President Clinton, George W. Bush, as well as Barack Obama. Solving the riddle of Pyongyang and this bizarre regime is something that has flummoxed administrations and us on Capitol Hill. Tomorrow, I will be meeting with defectors from the North Korean regime to have the opportunity to hear from them the horror they've lived under.
In terms of what U.S. policy should be, there are no easy answers. I think continuing to lean on the Chinese, knowing the influence that they have over Pyongyang. But again, this all gets back to the fact that we just know so little about this regime. It is the most closed in the world. So continuing to be vigilant, making clear that any unilateral attack by North Korea will absolutely require a response on our part, I do think that that's the best medicine moving forward. But I have to say it isn't a satisfactory answer to me because there are no easy answers when it comes to North Korea.
BLITZER: You're absolutely right. A very tough situation.
Congressman Brendan Boyle, thanks very much for joining us.
BOYLE: OK, thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Still ahead, we're minutes away from today's White House press briefing. We'll go there live when the White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer steps into the room.
Also, the State Department facing criticism over ethics after touting one of the president's businesses on a website for foreign travelers. We'll discuss that and more right after a quick break.
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[13:46:43] BLITZER: Looking at live pictures from inside the White House press briefing room. The Press Secretary Sean Spicer should be coming out momentarily to start taking questions from reporters on this day 96 of the Trump presidency. We'll have live coverage of that once it begins.
In the meantime, the State Department says it now regrets a website post intended for American embassies worldwide. The State Department posted what is basically an advertisement for President Trump's Mar-a- Lago Resort for visitors to the United States. At taxpayer expense, they promoted the so-called winter White House, raising questions about conflicts of interest.
Joining us now, Richard Painter, former chief White House ethics attorney for President George W. Bush., and Norm Eisen, a CNN contributor. He was ethics czar under President Obama.
Let me start with you, Richard.
What's the concern here? Are you concerned about this at all?
RICAHRD PAINTER, FORMER CHIEF WHITE HOUSE ETHICS ATTORNEY: Well, just one more instance of use of public office for private gain. We don't use the State Department to sell a membership interest in Mar-a-Lago, which is a private club owned by the president, where membership costs $200,000 a year. That's not the role of the State Department. The next time the president wants to sell off memberships in Mar-a-Lago, he needs to go to realtor.com or some other commercial outlet. The State Department has spread a message all over the world that we are here to run a Pay-to-Play regime, where if you do business with the Trump administration, if you do business with President Trump, you're going to get in good with the United States government. There's no separation here between the president's commercial interests and the business of the United States government. That message is being spread all over the world. This is a very, very troublesome situation. And it's just one more development. We see developments like this every single day in this administration.
BLITZER: The State Department says, Norm -- and you're a former U.S. ambassador -- they say it really wasn't meant as an advertisement. They described the so-called winter White House to embassies around the world. Is that a problem?
NORM EISEN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Wolf, it is a problem. Under section 2635, one of our U.S. laws, you are not allowed, if you're a government agency or government official, to promote a private businesslike Mar-a-Lago using your public office. And the -- when I served as ambassador, we had an elaborate set of rules in my embassy and in the State Department on when you can and cannot advocate for a business. This just doesn't meet the smell test.
Wolf, if it were one isolated episode, everybody would understand. But there's been a pattern starting with the president himself breaking a 40-year practice. Professor Painter did it in the Bush White House. I did it under Obama. Presidents have to sell or otherwise exit their conflicting investments. His children bring business conflicts to their nepotistic arrangements in the White House. We've seen Mr. Flynn's problems, so many others. There's been 100 ethics violations and we're not even in the 100th day of office yet.
[13:49:57] BLITZER: What do you say, Richard, when the White House lawyers point out, yes, there's rules for White House officials, government employees, but there's special consideration for one person, namely, the president of the United States. What do you say to that argument?
PAINTER: I don't know what the so-called special considerations are that would enable President Trump to do business different than any other recent president. Every president since Nixon has disclosed his tax returns. No president has used the United States government to market his commercial properties. And, most important, no president has had people working for him who have been taking undisclosed payments from a foreign power, much less the Russians. And so, we see today a cover-up at the White House where they are refusing to release documents about the undisclosed foreign documents that were illegal under the emolument's clause. And the White House thinks this is OK.
(CROSSTALK) BLITZER: But, Richard, in fairness, they fired him.
PAINTER: Oh, they fired him. And they won't disclose who else at the White House knew about this. And they defended him really up until they were forced to fire him because it became clear that he lied to Vice President Pence. They didn't bother to investigate at all. How could someone, who is receiving money from the Russians, get this high up in our national security apparatus? This is a serious threat to the national security if the White House operates this way.
BLITZER: Let me let -- let me let Norm button it up.
Go ahead, Norm.
EISEN: Wolf, it's even worse than that because we don't have the president's tax returns. We don't know what his Russian financial ties are. We know the son said, before the dad started running for office, that they see a lot of Russian money in their businesses. Well, we need to get the father's tax returns. We need to cut him off from these foreign payments that he's admitting he's getting from other countries. And we need to stop this rampant disregard for ethics and for law. They say, Wolf, that tone at the top is the secret of good compliance. This administration is tone deaf at the top, that's given us the Trump mess, the Flynn mess and now the Mar-a- Lago mess at the State Department.
BLITZER: Norm Eisen and Richard Painter, thanks, guys, very much for joining us.
We are waiting for the White House press briefing with Sean Spicer. Looking at live pictures. It's expected to begin momentarily. We'll have live coverage of that.
We'll take a quick break. Much more right after this.
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[13:57:15] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to take it early today. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me. You're watching CNN.
We're taking it early because we are watching and waiting for that White House press briefing to begin any moment now, because one of its former staffers, former national security adviser, is accused of possibly breaking the law. What is more, the White House just refused a request to release documents on the very individual. Talking about retired lieutenant Army General who used to serve as the national security advisor, Michael Flynn. He, it turns out, received more than $45,000 from RT TV, a broadcaster run by the Russian government, for a speech back in 2015 he gave in Moscow.
Here's what leaders from both parties in the House Oversight Committee revealed about that payment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. JASON CHAFFETZ, (R-UT), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: As a former military officer, you simply cannot take money from Russia, Turkey or anybody else. And it appears as if he did take that money. It was inappropriate and there are repercussions for the violation of law.
He was supposed to seek permission and receive permission from both the secretary of State and the secretary of the Army prior to traveling to Russia to, not only accept that payment but to engage in that activity. I see no evidence that he actually did that.
REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS, (D-MD), RANKING MEMBER, HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: The United States Criminal Code, Title 18, Section 1001, provides that, "knowingly falsifying or concealing a material fact is a felony which may result in fines up to five years and five years' imprisonment."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So that was the chairman and ranking member on the committee speaking up about all of this.
Again, we're waiting to hear from Sean Spicer who, no doubt, will get all kinds of questions on this very issue today.
Let's begin with our senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, there in the briefing room.
They issue from Congress, Jim, is they wanted documents from the White House on this very issue, and what is the -- is the White House denying them these documents?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, what they are saying at this point, Brooke, is that they don't have the documents. That it's impossible to furnish the documents to the House Oversight Committee because they don't have them at this point. And so, what the White House has done is they have directed the House Oversight Committee and its members to the relevant agencies, as they're calling it. The Oversight Committee, as you know -- we've been reporting all morning -- did receive that letter from Mark Short, the legislative affairs director over here at the White House. The White House is not disputing that they sent that letter but that that's their explanation at this point.
We should point out that General Flynn's attorney has released a statement saying that General Flynn did brief the Defense Intelligence Agency about these speaking appearances and about the money he received for those speaking appearances. And the House Oversight Committee is pushing back on that.
