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NEWS STREAM
President Trump Meets with Palestinian Authority President; Theresa May Talks Tough on Brexit; Interview with Futuristic Architect Ole Scheeren. 08:00a-09:00a ET
Aired May 03, 2017 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:13] IVAN WATSON, HOST: I'm Ivan Watson in Hong Kong. Welcome to News Stream.
Donald Trump meets with the Palestinian Authority president at the White House as his vice
president says he's considering moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.
Humiliated by a high-profile defection, North Korea tries to discredit defectors by taking us
to meet the families they left behind.
And as Theresa May talks tough on Brexit, the EU says it will be painful and will not be over quickly.
Iit's a goal that has eluded many of his predecessors, and now Donald Trump gets to assess his prospects of brokering an Israeli-Palestinian peace
deal. Hours from now, he sits down with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas at the White House. That meeting comes as the
militant Palestinian group Hamas revises its policy positions. Its leader spoke to CNN and we'll have more on that in a moment.
But first, let's take you to the west bank, that's where Ian Lee joins us from Ramallah. Now, Ian, at an Israeli independence day event, this week
Vice President Pence said that President Trump is giving serious consideration to moving the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to
Jerusalem. How is that kind of statement playing with the Palestinians there in Ramallah?
IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ivan, that has always been a bit of a red line for the Palestinians. They say the embassy should
be moved when the final status of Jerusalem is determined through negotiations.
You know, this is the first time that President Abbas and President Trump will meet. They've spoken previously over the telephone. So, expect them
to get a feel for one another, but talking to people on the street, there's not high expectations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): There is no hope because there's nothing new. We just hope the situation stays the same and doesn't worsen,
both politically and economically.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We don't expect any positive results out of any
meeting between Palestinians and Americans. American politicians are very biased toward Israel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both of them are serious.
LEE: So, you have no expectations, no hopes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No, no. As a Palestinian living in this circumstances for years, no expectations, at least not positive
expectations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Trump is very strong. He will find a solution. I'm very positive, 100 percent. Only strong people he
will find a solution. Weak people cannot find one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: You know, the interesting thing, Ivan, when talking to people around the Palestinian president, they told me that the one thing they do like
about President Trump is his direct style of diplomacy.
They say previous U.S. administrations, they would talk to the State Department and then that would be relayed to the White House. They say
right now, they have direct line to the White House and they say that is important because they think that President Trump's reputation is on the
line now for some sort of peace deal.
WATSON: All right, that's a good point.
Ian, what about Mahmoud Abbas himself, what do you think he can - is hoping to trying to get out of this visit to the White House?
LEE: So definitely one thing, Ivan, is stopping the embassy moving from Tel Aviv to
Jerusalem, but also expect him to put more pressure on the Americans, on President Trump to have them talk to the Israelis to stop the settlement
construction in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. They say that has been a barrier to a peace deal all along.
Another thing is talk to them about revamping this peace negotiations, trying to get something going. and previously President Abbas has said
that he will meet with Prime Minister Netanyahu anywhere, any time under the patronage of Donald Trump. So, they are putting a lot on the U.S.
president.
As far as President Trump goes, he said this is the ultimate deal.
WATSON: All right. Ian Lee, live from Ramallah, thanks for that important update.
Now, this meeting comes after Hamas released a new policy statement. It appears to accept a
Palestinian State within the 1967 borders without explicitly recognizing Israel.
Now, Nic Robertson, he has spoken with the leader of Hamas and he joins us from Abu Dhabi.
Good to see you there, Nic.
Are you getting any signs that Hamas wants to reach out to this new Trump administration?
[08:05:13] NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What it's doing with this new policy document is putting on the table publicly issues like
accepting a Palestinian State along the lines of the 67 borders, things that they've been saying sort of privately over a number of years and in
interviews, but they're putting this out as a serious statement as the guide for the way forward. They're softening their image and some of the
language they're using here and Khaled Mashal does see President Trump, despite the fact that he he has talked about putting - moving the U.S.
embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, an incredibly contentious issue, Mashal sees President Trump as somebody who actually can potentially break the
logjam on the talks in the Middle East between Palestinians and Israelis.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON: Hamas has issued a new political document. Has anything changed? Has Hamas changed its position on anything?
KHALED MASHAL, HAMAS LEADER (through translator): Of course. Since its birth in 1987, Hamas has been evolving and changing. Groups are like
living creatures, if they don't evolve, they die.
Hamas is a serious movement and is aware of variables of the conflict within the regional and international context. Consequently, Hamas has
developed itself. It has opened up.
It has opened up.
ROBERTSON: So what is it in that document that you want the world to understand that changes the way that they should view you to get this
engagement that you want?
MASHAL (through translator): In the document, there are numerous artiOles and political stances and concepts that the entire world, especially the
western countries, ought to positively engage with. For example, when Hamas addresses internal Palestinian issues and stresses that it's keen on
democracy and stresses its respect for election results, its keenness to build the Palestinian society
and political order on democratic foundations.
ROBERTSON: The spokesman for the Israeli prime minister says that you're just trying to fool the world, you're trying to pull the wool over the eyes
of the world. That, in fact, Hamas still attacks Jews, that Hamas still calls for the destruction of Israel. Are they
correct in that?
MASHAL (through translator): Netanyahu and the Israeli leadership try to frame - blame the Palestinians for their own crime. They are the ones
occupying the land, they are the ones building settlements, stealing land.
The second point, Netanyahu wants to see Hamas and the Palestinian people the way he wants, weak on the ground and hardliners in their political and
media rhetoric. Hamas is doing the exact opposite of what Netanyahu wants.
ROBERTSON: Will Hamas stop its shelling of Israeli civilians? Will you renounce violence?
MASHAL (through translator): We don't practice or apply violence. We practice legitimate
resistance against the occupation. If the occupation and the settlements are gone, then there is no need to use force or resistance.
ROBERTSON: What I'm not hearing from you, and help me understand this, I'm not hearing the sort of language that's going to move the dial for the
international community. You're not saying you'll renounce violence, stop shelling Israeli civilians, stop tunneling, that you recognize the state of
Israel, the sort of language that would make the international community pay more attention to Hamas. I'm not hearing that.
MASHAL (through translator): It's not equitable to ask the Palestinians or to ask Hamas to be subject to the criteriaof the Israelis. How should
Hamas be asked to stop resistance while its lands are being occupied, swallowed by settlements? I am saying now that the
charter is enough for equity. World capital should seize the opportunity and engage seriously with Hamas, Palestinians, the
Arabs and to exercise pressure on the intransigent party which is Israel.
This is a plea from me to the Trump administration, the new American administration, break out from the wrong approaches of the past and which
did not arrive at a result and perhaps to grab the opportunity presented by Hamas's charter.
This is an opportunity for a new rapprochement that adopts the positive stance of Hamas, the Palestinians, and the Arabs.
ROBERTSON: Does President Trump have the approach, the personality, do you think, to break the logjam?
MASHAL (Through translator): Yes. This provides an opportunity that this administration has approaches that are different. It has a greater
threshold for boldness. Naturally, without changing the conditions, we can't expect to change the results. If we continue with the
same faulty and redundant approaches, how can we expect different results? Like Einstein said, that would be insanity.
As such, I believe that the current administration is capable of affecting change in the way it engages with the Arab-Israeli conflict.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[08:10:11] ROBERTSON: Now, I also asked Khaled Mashal about his relationship with the Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas,
because right now it's on that relationship is on the rocks.
He played down the differences, which is interesting that he would do that just when Abbas is in Washington. There does seem to be a concerted
effort, if it's not coordinated here, to try to present this moment in front of President Trump as a time to do something and to get a collective
Palestinian message to his ears.
WATSON: Fascinating seeing these rival factions apparently trying to work a little bit together with some kind of hope and optimism towards the Trump
administration.
Nic, thank you very much for bringing us that interview.
Now, from diplomacy to domestic U.S. politics. In just under two hours, FBI Director James Comey, he'll testify before a U.S. Senate committee and
he's sure to face questions about alleged Russian meddling in last year's presidential election.
Over the past 24 hours, President Trump and Hillary Clinton have traded barbs over the outcome of that race. Our Joe Johns reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Trump firing back at Hillary Clinton after her scathing indictment of the 2016 race, insisting that FBI
Director James Comey influenced voters.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was on the way to winning until a combination of Jim Comey's letter on October 28th and
Russian WikiLeaks raised doubts in the minds of people who were inclined to vote for me but got scared off. Had the election been on October 27th, I'd
be your president.
JOHNS: The president responding in a series of late night tweets, even slamming his own FBI director. "FBI Director Comey was the best thing that
happened to Hillary Clinton in that he gave her a free pass for many bad deeds. The phony Trump Russian story was an excuse used by the Democrats as
justification for losing the election. Perhaps Trump just ran a great campaign." This response coming hours after Clinton took a job at one of
the president's sore spots.
CLINTON: I did win more than 3 million votes than my opponent. I feel a tweet coming. Well, fine, better that than interfering in foreign affairs.
If he wants to tweet about me, I'm happy to be the diversion.
JOHNS: Comey expected to face a grilling from Democrats at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing over his potential influence on the campaign.
Hillary Clinton blaming Comey's letter to Congress about her use of a private e-mail server and WikiLeaks and Russia for hacking her campaign
chairman's e-mails. Clinton refusing to even say Vladimir Putin's name.
CLINTON: He certainly interfered in our election, and it was Olear he interfered to hurt me and help my opponent.
JOHNS: But acknowledging some ownership for her defeat.
CLINTON: I take absolute responsibility. I was the candidate. I was the person who was on the ballot.
JOHNS: And now vowing to speak out against her former rival.
CLINTON: I am now back to being an activist citizen and part of the resistance.
(APPLAUSE)
JOHNS: All this as sources tell CNN that former acting attorney general Sally Yates will testify next week that she forcefully warned the Trump
White House in January that then national security advisor Michael Flynn lied about discussing sanctions with a Russian ambassador, directly
contradicting the White House's version of events.
SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: They wanted to give, quote, "a head's up" to us on some comments that may have seemed in conflict with
what he had sent the vice president out in particular.
JOHNS: Yates' testimony likely to raise further questions about why it took the administration nearly three weeks to fire Flynn, a decision that was
ultimately made on the same day the story was reported in the "Washington Post.:
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAYES: Now, that was our Joe Johns reporting. And there are signs that recent tensions between the White House and the Kremlin could be easing.
President Trump and President Putin spoke by phone Tuesday. It was their first call since Mr. Trump ordered a missile strike against a Syrian air
base.
The White House says the two leaders discussed the need to end the violence in Syria and
the possibility of meeting on the sidelines of the G20 summit in July.
To the Korean peninsula now where North Korean media say this man, American citizen Tony Kim, was arrested for trying to overthrow the North Korean
government. It says Kim carried out hostile acts against the DPRK in the past and also during his most recent visit.
He was invited to North Korea to teach accounting at the Pyongyang University of Science and Technology.
Another man under fire from Pyongyang is the former deputy UK ambassador Thae Yong-ho. He was the most senior diplomat to defect in 20 years.
We're going to bring you a CNN exclusive the North Korean government takes Will Ripley to speak with the former diplomat's family and the families of
other defectors in this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Everything in Pyongyang, from the almost hourly music to the stories in state media, to
the omnipresent portraits of the late leaders, all of it to remind North Koreans, just how lucky they are to live in what the government calls a
socialist oasis. Which is why it's considered the ultimate act of betrayal when someone tries to leave.
Thae Yong-ho wasn't just someone. He was the most senior North Korean diplomat to defect in almost 20 years. The number-two in the North Korean
embassy in London before defecting to South Korea with his wife and two sons last August.
He has humiliated his homeland, giving a series of interviews, blasting the socialist system, and its Supreme Court leader.
"I spent 50 years of my life on the wrong side, and now I have to deny my past," he told CNN in January.
The North Korean government takes us to meet the brother and sister he left behind. This is their first ever interview, which they say is being done
voluntarily.
(on camera): In South Korea, Thae said he did this to break the slavery chain.
(voice-over): "100 percent evil propaganda," his sister says.
Thae also said he feared his family may be forced to speak against him or face prison camps, banishment from Pyongyang or worse.
"Not one person has been punished in my family", she says.
His brother says, "If I don't wash this sin away by myself, my sons and further generations will have to pay for this."
We made Thae aware of the interview but didn't get a response.
Another embarrassing case for North Korea, what South Korea calls the mass defection of a group of restaurant workers. North Korea calls it a mass
abduction, saying more than a dozen restaurant workers were all tricked.
We were also taken to meet some of their families.
(on camera) Some people may watch this and think that your government is forcing you to talk to us.
(voice-over): "Look at this stark reality," she says. "We parents have lost our child, all of a sudden, our precious daughter. If something that bad
happens to you personally, would you sit idle?"
In past defector stories, we've had to interview these people in hotels. Now, we're being taken to their homes.
At both homes we visited, the young waitress's dresses and portraits were prominently displayed. None have spoken to the media in South Korea. Their
families in the North have been told by their government that their loves ones are being held hostage, some near death, and they must do everything
they can to fight for their return.
But the vast majority of defectors will never return. Going to South Korea means cutting ties forever with family, friends, and North Korean society.
(SINGING)
RIPLEY: A society that says it can't imagine why anyone would want to leave.
Will Ripley, CNN, Pyongyang, North Korea.
(SINGING)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[08:21:22] WATSON: Welcome back to the program. This is News Stream broadcasting live from Hong Kong with a view there over Victoria Harbor.
Now we're watching two pivotal elections this week, one is entering its final nailbiting moments, while the other, well, it's just beginning.
In France, Presidential candidates are preparing to spar one last time in a head-to-head television debate. It could be the most important in the
entire race coming just days before voters go to the polls for the second and final time.
In Britain, Parliament has been dissolved officially, sounding the starting gun in the snap election.
Prime Minister Theresa May says a victory for her party ensures a smooth and stable Brexit.
But the European Union's chief Brexit negotiator says it will not be accomplished quickly or
easily. CNN's Max Foster is outside the Houses of Parliament with more on this story. Max, good to see you.
What are the biggest issues for voters going into this election? And is who will guide the country through Brexit at the top of the list?
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This is really why Theresa May called this snap election. There wasn't meant to be an
election for another couple of years. And she said I need a mandate going into these very tough negotiations with Brussels. And so I'm going to go
to the polls, and it does look as though she's going to get that mandate, partly because of the weakness of the other parties. So, the opposition
Labour Party, which you may associate with Tony Blair, for example, who are not fans of Corbyn and they don't want him to be prime minister.
So, there will be lots of people in the Labour Party presumeably is capitulating under its leader Jeremy Corbyn. There will be lots of people
in the Labour Party, presumably, voting for Theresa May's party, which is pretty extraordinary. If you look at the polls there, that's what they're
suggesting. Also the UK Independence Party, which really brought about this debate about Britain leaving the European Union also collapsing, a lot
of internal fighting there and their very charismatic leader Nigel Farage isn't really - isn't standing in this election. So, he's not really part
of either. He's not the leader.
So, she's probably going to get their votes as well.
So it does look as though the polls, they might not be absolutely right. They have been wrong in the past, but they are going to stand up to the
extent that she has such a big lead. She almost certainly will win. And she wants it to be about Brexit. She's leading the debate. It does seem
as though she's going to manage that.
WATSON: All right, so she's looking strong right now at home.
How about in her relations with Brussels and the European leadership right now? We're hearing reports of acrimonious exchanges. What more can you
tell us about that?
FOSTER: Well, yeah, this goes back to a dinner that was on Wednesday. Jean-Claude Junker came over to London. They had a meal. They were
talking about Brexit, as you would expect. Downing Street didn't really brief on that, but then we heard lots of soundings coming out from European
officials in Brussels suggesting that it was an absolute disaster.
So, even to the extent where Theresa May said she thought Brexit it would be a success, Jean-Claude Juncker's side appears to saying it doesn't see
how it can be a success, they can't agree on the basic rules on how to go into the negotiations. Theresa May, for example,
wants to talk about a new trading rule alongside the exiting rules, and he won't accept that. There's this idea that Britain would
have to pay a huge bill, up to a hundred billion euros to live up to commitments it's already made to the European Union. Here in London many
suggesting there are no laws around what sorts of amounts should be paid out so why should Britain pay anything?
So, they can't even get talking. Even today we heard from Michel Barnier (ph). He's the
Brexit negotiator in Brussels. And this is what he had to say just to give you a taste of it, Ivan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHEL BARNIER, EU CHIEF BREXIT NEGOTIATOR: Some created the illusion that Brexit would have no material impact on our lives or that negotiations
can be concluded quickly and painlessly. This is not the case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Very quickly becoming a reality, Ivan, that no deal will be reached. As you can imagine, we've got two years to negotiate this
process. We got the election delaying it already and they haven't even agreed to the ground rules.
So a hard Brexit as it's called seems very likely where Britain leaves the European Union.
WATSON: Well, I'm sure you'll be covering that, Max. Thank you very much for that
update from London.
Now, we're going to cross the English channel now to France and look at another pivotal election that's taking place there. As mentioned earlier,
Emmanuel Macron and Marine Le Pen are preparing for their final debate against each other. And our Jim Bittermann
is following the last stretch of this presidential race from Paris and joins us now.
So Jim, how do the latest polls look going into this final debate?
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The latest polls give easy victory to Emmanuel Macron, 59 to 41 according to the poll.
However, when you look at the details, there's still a great deal of nervousness here. For one thing, in
the 10 days since the first round, according to the same poll, Emanuel Macrons lead dropped by five points and Marine Le Pen's lead
has increased by five points, so that's one thing.
The other thing is that that poll also indicates that 18 percent of the French still have not made up their minds about who they're going to vote
for. And that, coupled with a high abstention rate, it's expected somewhere near 30 percent of the French may not turn out to vote could in
fact help out Marine Le Pen and help her vote deficit there.
So, I think there's a great deal of nervousness even though right now going in, it gives the pollsters are giving it to Macron easily - Ivan.
WATSON: And I think, Jim, the elections of the last year have proven that we do have to be
awfully cautious when it comes to polls.
Jim Bittermann with an update from Paris, thanks very, very much.
Now, still ahead on News Stream, any moment now, we're expecting to hear from the leaders of Russia and Turkey. What's at the top of the agenda as
these two leaders meet in Sochi. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(HEADLINES)
[08:31:08] WATSON: Now, we're awaiting remarks from Russian President Vladimir Putin
and Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan out of Sochi. The two leaders are meeting there to discuss the conflict in Syria. And Diana Magnay joins
us now from Moscow.
Now, Diana, Vladimir Putin has been very busy. He hosted the German chancellor yesterday, he spoke to the U.S. president by phone afterwards.
And now he's sitting down with Turkey's president. Is the war in Syria, is that at the heart of all these different strands of diplomacy?
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. That seems to be forming very much the core of the discussions between all of these key
leaders. And you can understand why Russia wants to be forging ahead with a cease-fire here. It doesn't want to commit indefinitely to the conflict
in Syria, even with a reduced troop contingent in Turkey.
President Erdogan arriving today. Turkey and Russia obviously very, very key players in the Syrian conflict over the last couple of years has
brought them much closer together despite the fact that they have wildly opposing ends certainly in the role President Assad might play in any
future Syria and also over the Kurdish question.
But they, together with Iran, are responsible for the latest roundof peace talks which is starting
or has started today in Astana, Kazakhstan. So, I think that that will also form part of the discussions between these two leaders today, Ivan.
WATSON: And about those discussions, those peace talks in Kazakhstan, we're getting reports that the Syrian armed opposition which Turkey has
been traditionally close to, that they've left the talks in protest. What more can you tell us about that?
MAGNAY: Right, they've suspended their involvement for now. But they haven't left Astana, so so there is the possibility that they will return
to the talks either later today or at least tomorrow. And I think that is the hope that people are hanging on to, the reason that they have refused
to sit at the table for now is because of continued bombing in Syria, they say. This is the agency of the high negotiations committee which is one of
the main opposition groups at the table or not at the table or not at the table in Astana.
What we're hearing from Russian media reports is that Russia is proposing what they're calling a four-zone proposal which would effectively mean in
key areas where the rebels -- rebel enclaves are still very much fighting government, so key front lines, would be then patrolled by peacekeeping
forces, possibly from these guarantor countries. But I think that will all - that is all very much up for discussion and will, of course, depend on
whether ANC return to the table, Ivan.
WATSON: You know, Diana, Syria is such a tangled bloody mess, this awfully complicated proxy war. I'm wondering if the recent show of U.S. force and
solidarity with Syrian Kurds, which had so angered Turkey could be seen as an opportunity for Russia to again pull kind of Ankara towards Moscow away
from its traditional NATO ally, the U.S.?
MAGNAY: Absolutely. And I think that is a very delicate balance of President Erdogan to
tread, where should he place his allegiances at this moment? He will be going to visit the U.S. president later this month, but it is interesting
that he's decided to make his first trip after the Turkish referendum to Russia.
And, of course, the Kurdish question is something that President Putin has over him, but we'll see how he manages to negotiate that between these two
great powers, both of whom hold such sway over this terrible conflict, Ivan.
[08:35:10] WATSON: All right. The view from Moscow from Diana Magnay. Thank you very, very much.
Now, it was May 3, 2007 when Madeleine McCann disappeared, sparking one of the most
high-profile missing child cases in history. Her parents say they left their three children in a Portuguese
holiday villa while they went to a restaurant just 50 meters away and when they returned, she was
gone.
A few months later, Portuguese police named Kate and Gerry McCann as suspects in the disappearance of their daughter, citing DNA evidence in a
car they rented days after reporting her appearance.
In July 2008, Portuguese investigators closed the case saying they found no evidence of involvement by the McCanns or another suspect, Robert Morat
(ph). British and Portuguese police reopened the case in 2013 following separate leads. As the tenth year approaches, the McCanns have not given
up hope their daughter will be found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERRY MCCAINN, MADELEINE MCCANN'S FATHER: Inevitably on anniversaries and her birthday, they are by far the hardest day, by far.
KATE MCCANN, MADELEINE MCCANN'S MOTHER: I think it is important though, because despite how difficult these days are, just keeping in mind actually
how much progress we have made, and while there's no evidence to give us any negative news, you know,
that hope is still there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: CNN will have more on the case of Madeleine McCann this weekend. Randi Kaye returns to the scene of the crime and brings viewers the latest
on the search for the missing child.
Now, from a gravity defying tower in Beijing to a Jenga-like apartment building in Singapore,
one architect is changing the way cities around the world look. Up next, he talks to CNN about his few
futuristic designs. You won't want to miss this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATSON: Welcome back to the program. Nothing defines a city skyline more than a remarkable building. And now one architect is transforming
cityscapes around the world by reinventing the very notion of the skyscraper. Ole Scheeran sat down with Kristie Lu Stout during a recent
visit to Asia. And she started by asking what he meant when he said great architecture should tell a story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OLE SCHEEREN, ARCHITECT: I think architecture is about creating space for people and
lives of people and the stories of people. So, the idea of how people live and what they experience in a space for me is a very important tool when we
are designing our buildings.
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Let's talk about one of your designs, the Mahanakon (ph), the tallest tower in Bangkok. It looks
like it's digitally deconstructing. Was that intentional? Was that the look you're trying to achieve?
SCHEEREN: I think the issue with towers is they're so large, that actually people lose any sense of scale. You can't tell how big or how small such a
building is. But also, they suck up so many people in their (inaudible) and you can't tell that actually anybody is
inside of it. So, I wanted to open up this new shaft of the tower and reveal the scale of the human being inside of it and ultimately the
activity of the human being and broadcast it back as a message to the city and to urban life.
LU STOUT: Let's talk about a residential project that you did in Singapore, the Interlace (ph) right here. And it's very Jenga-like. The
31 residential blocks, toy-like structures stacked upon each other. How did you conceive that idea?
[08:40:17] SCHEEREN: Originally, the brief asked for over a 1000 apartments, and with a 24-story height limit, that would have meant
building 24 towers in a compound. The issue with the tower is not only that it's abstract, but that it's also isolating. If you live in these
vertical silos, there's no sense of connectivity between human beings, so I basically toppled the towers and stacked them up in a grid, which from the
side you can't really see, but once you go into the helicopter you see it's a hexagonal grid that forms huge open courtyards, spaces to program with
gardens, with amenities, with the life of people.
And it was this central idea of creating spaces for the people that live, together with a
structure that interconnects everyone, that interlaces everyone, and that was really the idea for the building.
LU STOUT: Let's talk about the CCTV headquarters building in Beijing, because it is a remarkable work, but also very polarizing. The Chinese
President Xi Jinping name checked it as so-called weird architecture. And last year the state council basically banned odd-shaped buildings. When
that happened, how did that make you feel? Did you take it personally?
SCHEEREN: I think controversy is part of breaking the rules and going beyond the status quo. And, of course, a lot of the work we do is in that
sense controversial. I think this building will find its rightful place in history, and I think in parts already actually has
done so. But, of course, it was a building that really radically questioned the status of the skyscraper and said maybe skyscrapers should
not be about height and about vertical hierarchy, but we basically bent the vertical needle back into itself to create a loop of interconnected
activities that was all - it was a vision about collaboration inside a building. And I think these are quite radically different
concepts. And it will take their time until they're fully understood and maybe also fully appreciated.
LU STOUT: Yeah, the last decade has been incredible in terms of architecture in China. But do you think that era of ambitious architecture
is over for that country?
SCHEEREN: I don't think it's over, but I think a very important thing has happened, namely taking a step back and really looking at everything and
starting to think about what is right and what is not right to do.
Of course, the past decade saw so much enthusiastic production that there wasn't always time to
think for many things I think that were built. And it's a very strong and important moment to now say what do we really believe in and what do we
want to build? And I think that will produce a lot of good answers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATSON: That was German architect Ole Scheeren speaking to my colleague Kristie Lu Stout. And she will be back at this time, hosing this program
on Thursday.
And with that, that is News Stream. I'm Ivan Watson. World Sport with Amanda Davies is next.
END
