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Hala Gorani Tonight
Last Day Of Campaigning In Presidential Election; Conservatives Make Big Gains, Labour And UKIP Vote Falls; Toxic Rhetoric Shows No Sign Of Letting Up; Le Pen Supporters Optimistic Ahead of Vote; The Song and Dance of South Korean Politics; Cartoonists' Role in Politics; Last Day of Campaigning in Presidential Election. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired May 05, 2017 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:33]
(HEADLINES)
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live in Paris this hour. Thanks you for being with us on this
Friday. This is a special edition of THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
Well, it comes down to this, a centrist who has never held public office and a far right candidate known for her anti-E.U. and anti-immigrant
platform. They have left France's mainstream parties in the dust of a dramatic first round vote.
And now either Emmanuel Macron or Marine Le Pen will be the next president of France. They have made their cases to the voters, in two days we will
know who was successful. But as Melissa Bell reports, the final day of campaigning proved just as exciting as the rest of the race.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A noisy end to a noisy campaign. Protesters gathered outside the Hans (ph) Cathedral.
Inside the far-right candidate, Marine Le Pen, was paying a surprise visit, the last of her campaign, and one she was obliged to bring an abrupt end.
Immediately afterwards, Le Pen blamed her rival.
MARINE LE PEN, FRENCH PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through translator): This is very revealing, perhaps it's a choice that French have to make. The horde
that came to shove me to insult us at this sacred historical place. I think it is symbolic and practically organized by the militants in both
cases.
BELL: In a debate on Wednesday that was as aggressive as it was personal, Emmanuel Macron had accused her of stirring up violence.
EMMANUEL MACRON FRENCH PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through translator): I am talking about the party of the far right, the one that you lead. It's a
party that spreads lies on social media, which encourages hatred, molests journalists, and generously dispense brutality everywhere.
LE PEN (through translator): We have never molested anyone.
MACRON (through translator): You did on several occasions. At my meetings, you have threatened and beaten people and I have experienced
that. That is the truth, Ms. Le Pen.
BELL: By the following day down the south of France, Macron's tone had become more magnanimous.
MACRON (through translator): For the past ten days or so, we have been leading this fight, this fight for the second round that opposes the two
projects face-to-face, and the one of the National Front. No! No! No, don't boo them, don't boo them, it is pointless to fight them. Make them
lose. Vote against them. We must defeat them in the ballot box, and not boo them.
BELL: The independent centrist had not only risen in the polls after the debate, he'd also had a very unusual endorsement.
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I know that you face many challenges, and I want all of my friends in France to know how much I am routing for
your success, because of how important this election is, I also want you to know that I am supporting Emmanuel Macron to lead you forward. Lamarche,
viva la France.
BELL: But Barack Obama isn't the only American president taking an interest, only two weeks ago just after an attack against police on the
Champs-Elysees, Donald Trump tweeted that "There had been another terrorist attack in Paris, the people of France will not take much more of this, will
have a big effect on presidential election." A reminder of the fact that the world will be watching when on Sunday, the French decide which of these
two candidates should become president. Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Our senior international correspondent, Jim Bittermann, has been following this race throughout. Jim, we saw a messy end of campaign in
there for Marine Le Pen, when she has been egged and booed, you name it.
[15:05:06]JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is been all downhill from Wednesday onwards, the debate where she was roundly
criticized and people said that she lost, and eggs on Thursday, and today her last day of the campaigning, she was off to the cathedral and got booed
and had to leave through the back door and so it's a real mess for her.
GORANI: I find it remarkable how close the people can get to these candidates and also given the security concerns here.
BITTERMANN: Yes, it is amazing, and earlier on we saw Macron get flour, and Fillon get flour, and as you were saying, you can practically make a
crepe out of the ingredients, but it is amazing that people can get so close.
GORANI: So the latest poll really gives Macron a huge edge, 62-38 and he gained ground in fact after the debate on Wednesday. However, it is not a
done deal. There is still a path for Le Pen.
BITTERMANN: There is a clever researcher over at one of the French institutes who did a study of the votes and said that basically just
because the Marine Le Pen voters are so committed, 90 percent of her voters will do it. They will not abstain on Sunday, whereas with Macron, they
calculate that something like 60 percent of his voters will actually carry through and vote, and so, because of that fact, the opinion polls could be
skewed.
GORANI: And you always have the unknowns. A rainy day, this is a long holiday weekend, you can have all sorts of things happening in the last two
days.
BITTERMANN: Absolute terrorist attack.
GORANI: Yes, exactly. What about Macron, we saw that Le Pen got egged and booed and all of the rest of it. What did he do because he has had some
tense moments?
BITTERMANN: Yes, he's had some tense moments mainly with confrontations with workers and that happened again today. He had face-off with the some
workers. He was also at Media Park today, which is a left wing media organization here, and there he did a little bit better, but he also was at
a cathedral today, but he did not get booed.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, Jim Bittermann. Of course, we will stay in touch with Jim over the next few hours for more.
Let's take a look at France's election in the wider context of Europe because you have two candidates who are diametrically opposed on that
question, one pro-E.U. and the other one very much against France's current participation in the E.U. as it sounds.
Pascal Lamy is a former director general of the World Trade Organization. He's been a high level adviser in the French government and the European
Commission. Thanks for joining us live from New York.
First of all, what do you make of this race? The fact that in the second round, Marine Le Pen, the National Front candidate against the centrist
upstart who has never run a campaign in his life, Emmanuel Macron?
PASCAL LAMY, FORMER DIRECTOR-GENERAL, WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION: Well, I think that as you are rightly said, it is -- it is a clear dividing line
between a pro-European candidate and a Emmanuel Macron was the only real pro-European candidate, and clearly, anti-European candidate with Marine Le
Pen.
So it is something that is rather new in the French politics where you have a sort of combination of traditional right versus left, and sort of the
Obama versus Trump in some sort, and on the other side open against closed Europe being the dividing line.
And I think the result on Sunday, whatever it is, it looks good for Macron although as you rightly said, there are remaining certainties on the number
of voters. The result is a sort of referendum about Europe.
GORANI: Yes. But you say, it is right versus left, but here, you really have two entirely different visions and the traditional parties, the
conservatives and the socialist, performed pretty dismally especially the socialist. This is a rejection of the establishment, of people who say,
listen, the way that things have been run over the last several decades have not worked for us and we do not trust our traditional politicians.
Why is it happening in France? This is completely new.
LAMY: I totally agree with you. It is incredibly new. I mean, none of us sort of reasonably informed French people or the politicians would have
thought a year ago that Emmanuel Macron would be now probably the next French president.
It is an incredible story, but right you are the root of it, the starting point is a sort of the disintegration of the traditional party system in
France where the traditional right wing parties went to the extreme, and the traditional left wing parties went to the extreme.
And this opened a huge space for a guy like Emmanuel Macron who obviously was clever enough to jump into that big hole that opened up within the
traditional parties.
[15:10:05]GORANI: But those who were others jumping into that big hole are the far right, Marine Le Pen, but also the far left, Jean-Luc Melenchon.
You have another candidate who may not be a household name granted outside of France, (inaudible) almost 5 percent.
All those three put together represent 45 percent of the French electorate comfortable with the idea of either exiting the E.U. or renegotiating
France's role in it, possibly even exiting organizations like NATO.
I mean, what do politicians like yourself, and other establishment figures, maybe what have you and others done wrong to create a situation where it is
possible for politicians like them to find a real audience?
LAMY: I mean, France has always been very specific with the sort of the tendency to move to the extremes, which is higher than other more
traditional European countries, and that is true that if you are look at on the one side if Macron wins, great news for Europe.
On the one side, if there is still 40 percent of people who feel disenfranchised and against the political system, this is big. But mind
you, the French political system is not a presidential system.
We have presidential elections on Monday, and if Emmanuel Macron win, if, the next big step is a month from now parliamentary elections. France is
basically a parliamentary system, and the president who would be elected with a majority of the parliament against him would be severely
handicapped.
So the real fight now assuming that Emanuel Macron wins on Sunday will be whether he can get a proper parliamentary majority a month from now, and
this is another fight. So assuming he wins on Sunday at 8:00, the next immediate thing is what about parliamentary elections?
GORANI: Right. He might start the presidency if he is elected and it is the expectation weak. Marine Le Pen could be looking at five years from
now, this is a long game for a relatively young woman of 48 who has a very, very passionate support base.
LAMY: It is one of the many paradoxes, and one of the very extraordinary things in this campaign that a guy like Emmanuel Macron succeeds in making
Marine Le Pen, who is roughly the same age as he is, as an old politician. It is many ways incredible if you are not following the detail of this
incredible story which I think for you media people, it must be a fantastic story.
GORANI: Well, I'm not -- I am going to actually agree with you on that one. Certainly, it's been fascinating and a pivotal moment for France and
Europe as well. We appreciate you joining us this evening, Pascal Lamy, the former director general of the WTO. Thanks for being with us from New
York.
There's a lot more to come tonight, it has been quite the week for Brexit negotiations and they have not even officially started yet. We will
explain the latest swipe from that man, Jean-Claude Juncker.
And with just a few hours of campaigning to go, both candidates are trying to get everything single vote. We will have much more from Paris. There
were eggings, boos, and verbal confrontation, and this is just Friday. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:15:57]
GORANI: To another vote now in the U.K. where they've counting results in local elections. Now we would normally tell you about local elections in
the U.K. 15 minutes into a world newshour, but here's why we are.
It's because this vote is being seen as an indicator towards what could happen in the very important June general election, and it will make
Theresa May very happy, because her party picks up seats while the opposition, Labour, hemorrhaged them.
Meanwhile for UKIP, you remember the right-wing, anti-E.U. party was an absolute disaster. They lost nearly every seat they defended. Here is
what Theresa May had to say about the results.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: This is a government that works for the whole country, and it is encouraging that we have won support across
the whole of the United Kingdom, but I will not take anything for granted and neither will the team I lead because there is too much at stake.
This is not about who wins and who loses in the local elections, it is about continuing to fight for the best Brexit deal for families and
businesses across the United Kingdom, and to lock in the economic progress we have made, and get on with the job of making a success of the years
ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Now, as you heard, May has a lot on her mind, mainly Brexit, that's the big one. It's been a week of fiery rhetoric being thrown across
the channel between both sides, and the toxic atmosphere did not let up today, Fred Pleitgen has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another day, another rhetorical shot fired between the E.U. and Britain
over at the Brexit negotiations. Once again, it was E.U. Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker lighting the fuse, speaking at an event in
Italy.
JEAN-CLAUDE JUNCKER, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: I will express myself in French, because --slowly but surely English is losing importance in
Europe and then --
PLEITGEN: Juncker's tough guy talk caps off ten days that saw the move between Britain and the E.U. sink from constructive to nearly toxic. The
trouble started last Wednesday when Juncker met Britain's Prime Minister, Theresa May, in London for a working dinner.
According to European media, Juncker left feeling May was, quote, "deluded about Brexit" and that a post Brexit deal may be in jeopardy. May fired
back.
MAY: I was described by my colleagues as a bloody difficult woman, and I said that the next person to find that out will be Jean-Claude Juncker.
PLEITGEN: Since then, new allegations, rumors and swipes almost every day. E.U. based media reporting Britain's final payment to the E.U. could be as
high as 100 billion euros. Questions about the future rights of E.U. citizens living in the U.K., and talk of euro-denominated financial
services possibly having to relocate from Britain to Mainland Europe.
Meanwhile, Theresa May is engulfed in an election campaign at home looking to bolster her government in the upcoming negotiations. May all but
accusing the E.U. of trying to meddle in the vote.
MAY: All of these apps have been deliberately timed to affect the result of the general election that will take place on the 8th of June.
PLEITGEN: The stakes are high leading the head of the E.U. Council to call on all sides to tone down the talk.
DONALD TUSK, EUROPEAN COUNCIL PRESIDENT: These negotiations are difficult enough as they are. If we start arguing before they are even begin, they
will become impossible.
PLEITGEN: Both E.U. and U.K. officials say they want a post-Brexit agreement, but they acknowledge the barbs traded in the past days will make
it tougher to achieve a deal. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Let's get more on the election here in France. The mood, in fact, across the country in the last few hours of campaigning. Janine Di
Giovanni is a contributing writer with "Newsweek." Thanks so much for being with us.
What is going on in France? Something pivotal? Historic? Crucial? How would you -- what adjective would you use?
[15:20:05]JANINE DI GIOVANNI, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, "NEWSWEEK": I think it is catastrophic actually. I think that even if Marine as she now calls
herself rather than Marine Le Pen does not win, she has unleashed something very, very potent in the country.
And Hala, you were here during the attacks, the Charlie Hebdo attacks and the aftermath of that, people are frightened and more than 200 people have
been killed here since 2015. She stirred up fear.
Macron went as far to call her the high priestess of fear. I think she has done something in taking advantage of people who are vulnerable, fragile,
and feeling very insecure.
GORANI: But is it just that, I mean, she and Mellenchon and others, all these anti-establishment candidates, candidates who think France should
exit the E.U. or at the very least fundamentally renegotiate its role within the E.U. even exit NATO. We are looking at almost half of the
electorate, and these are not just fearful people, but they are sick and tired of the establishment.
GIOVANNI: Exactly, and I think that this has been a political, all of the political dinosaurs are gone. As someone said to you, there are corpses
now all over France. We now have a -- it is almost unleashed a new political era.
In one way, it is interesting to see what will happen. Macron could be very fresh. He is very young, let's see what he will do, but on the other
hand, you have all of these people evolving politically.
So it is a very interesting time to be here. It is a very interesting time to be analyzing it, but I also feel that there is so much that is at stake.
GORANI: Yes.
GIOVANNI: And I think that, you know, with the amount of the refugees and the migrants and the Brexit, and the potential for --
GORANI: What's you're biggest concern when you say catastrophic, that's how you describe the current state of affairs, what is your biggest
concern?
GIOVANNI: I'm concerned about leaving the E.U., the Frexit, which would, you know, a disastrous effect on what Marine says it is crucial to the
French identity because the French identity has been erased in becoming part of this alliance.
I am worried about that. I am worried about the effect it will have all throughout Europe. I am worried about the effect it will have on the
immigrants here, and immigrants and people who are vulnerable. I think that the kind of the hate rhetoric --
GORANI: We have reached a stage in France and other western democracies, there is such a divide between urban areas, rural and the working class
areas, and one interesting article that I read in one French magazine that people in Paris have more in common with people in London and New York than
they do with residents in their own country rural and working class areas that have been decimated by globalization. And something at some point
needs -- I mean, it needs to change for them for everything to stabilize, and it is not.
GIOVANNI: Well, there has been, I mean, France is suffering. The unemployment rate, the fact that contracts at work, and people can't be
fired or hired, and so there is a whole generation of young people who are brilliant, and brain drain here. They are going to London and now with the
Brexit, they can't. They need to get out the find jobs.
GORANI: They still can. They have a couple of years. Yes.
GIOVANNI: But I think that there needs to be a rejuvenation here, and somehow, Marine has tapped into that. Whether or not she wins, she has
tapped into a dissatisfaction that is very deep and profound.
GORANI: And she is playing the long game. There is 2022 ahead, and perhaps she is hoping that Macron will fail, which he might well do. He
still has to win the legislative election. He needs a strong mandate which he may not get. If he fails, she will step in. I mean, that is a strategy
going forward.
GIOVANNI: I think she has planted seeds as well for his failure. I absolutely agree with you that it is a strategic long term of way of
looking at this. That it is not Sunday which really matters, it is what is going to happen in the aftermath.
GORANI: The issues that Marine Le Pen brings up, the support base that she has, what are the legitimate grievances here, what is it that establishment
candidates have failed to, to -- why have they failed to appeal to that part of the electorate?
GIOVANNI: They feel voiceless. They feel that -- you know, Macron has taken the votes in Paris, but Paris is not France, and we often forget
that, because it is so centralized, but in fact, if you are going to the south, and the north where people don't have jobs, where they see, even
Macron who I would not say is a product of the elite in France. He comes from -- his father is a doctor --
GORANI: I mean, he went to the leading universities.
GIOVANNI: His father is a doctor. He was a banker, but my banker friends funny enough say that he was not a real banker. So I think that he stirs
up something in them. This is something we can never be and they feel that they have no voice with this kind of a --
GORANI: And it is a trend we have seen in so many other elections. So we will see if this one turns out differently from Brexit, and Donald Trump.
We'll see if it's closer to what happened in the Netherland. Any way, it is a fascinating time.
[15:25:03]You saw (inaudible), the legendary political cartoonist in there and he has been drawing for us. I feel extremely privileged and slightly
giddy even. We had him five years ago for the election.
But today, Janine, the last time he actually used an (inaudible) and paper and today, we are joining the 21st Century with him using an iPad.
GIOVANNI: He said he prefers to use his fingers and gets all of the colors.
GORANI: I was very, very interested to learn that he wanted to use an iPad and we will be discovering his images later this evening.
And later tonight, as I mentioned the cartoonist, and we will have much more on the French election. Do stay with us. The rest of the day's news
as well. We'll be right back. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: French voters will pick their next president on Sunday. Today was the last day of campaigning. Far right candidate, Marine Le Pen, was
heckled by protesters as she arrived at the cathedral. Meanwhile, her rival, Emmanuel Macron, headed to the southern town of Hudez (ph), and he
got into some intense discussions with some of the people surrounding him. New polls show Macron holding to a very strong lead ahead of Sunday.
Also today among the stories we are following, an extraordinary accusation by North Korea about an alleged assassination plot. A state news agency
says the United States and South Korea conspired to kill Kim Jong-Un with an unspecified biochemical substance. It provided no evidence, but said
the plot was recently foiled, and CNN cannot independently confirm that report.
In less than two hours a new ceasefire is to take effect in four designated safety zones in Syria as they are called. It is part of a new peace deal
signed by Russia, Iran and Turkey. Moscow say its war planes have already stopped bombing raids in those particular zones, but says it will continue
attacks on ISIS targets elsewhere in the country.
Well, as we said, Marine Le Pen was met with boos earlier, but it is not a scene that you would see in other parts of the country. In Northern
France lies an area that many call France's rust belt. Le Pen is extremely popular there and from that part of the country, Isa Soares sent
us this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Henin Beaumont has seen better days. Once a prosperous mining town, now facing a fight for survival.
Boarded up shops, high unemployment and an aging population, but there is hope in every corner here and it is called Marine Le Pen.
[15:30:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It is true that everyone, including the media and the journalists, call her a bad person
and a villain, but I'm sorry. Look at all the towns governed by the Le Pen party members and the Front National. No one thinks like this, no one has
any problems.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): OK. I'm for Marine Le Pen because of her promises of the limits due to retirement age.
SOARES: And while some are keeping their voting cards close to their chest, others are passionate and highly defensive of Marine Le Pen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I am for her. There you have it. Sorry to say it, but you asked me who I'm voting for. And maybe it is not
what you wanted to hear, but I told you that I am voting for her.
SOARES: There's a real sense of abandonment here by those at the very top by the main political parties, which really explains the support for Marine
Le Pen. But what is striking is how she has managed to do this, turning a town that, for seven decades, voted socialists now turning overwhelmingly
to the right.
At a Bellevue coffee shop, not everyone has been convinced by Le Pen's promises. Local train driver Benesa (ph) is one of them.
BENESA (PH), EMMANUEL MACRON SUPPORTER (through translator): I am for Macron obviously because he is against Front National, and he defends our
values and those French people of North African descent and because of Marine Le Pen's many lies.
SOARES: But in a town led by Front National and home to many migrants, you'd be surprised to hear any anti-immigrant rhetoric, essentially shared
by local Afegi (ph).
AFEGI (PH), HENIN-BEAUMONT RESIDENT (through translator): Not all immigrants are the same. We are all great in France and proud to be
French. Look around. Here, you see people are open. There is no climate of fear, and people from all backgrounds get on.
SOARES: That's because the Front National has muted the anti-immigrant message here, focusing instead on social issues, a simple message that
plays well in a town that enjoys the simple life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, Isa Soares is live in Henin-Beaumont this evening.
So, Isa, obviously, supporters of Marine Le Pen can read polls, and they can see that she in fact lost points since her Wednesday debate
performance. She's around 38, 39 percent. Are they still confident that she can win Sunday?
SOARES: Well, you'd be surprised to get many of them, in fact, Hala, to say openly on camera they are supporting and backing her, very similar to
what we saw with Brexit, those silent Brexiteers, if you remember.
When I was walking up and down the streets and asking people who you're voting for, the Macron supporters actually say, I'm voting Macron because
and I'm not supporting Marine Le Pen. But the Marine Le Pen supporters will basically say, well, it's a secret, I can't tell you who I'm voting
for. And when I pushed them further more on that, they would come out and say, I'm voting for Marine Le Pen. But it was actually quite hard for them
to quite openly say that.
So there is an element of that. There is also an element, Hala, of many people basically saying I'm voting carte blanche, I'm not voting, and
basically they can't decide. So it is hard to tell because, of course, having seen Brexit, having seen with the U.S. elections, there is that
element here, too.
But there is, definitely in this town, a sense of the disillusionment, a sense that the people have lost their voice. Unemployment, I heard you
talking earlier. Unemployment is a key issue here. Twenty percent unemployment in a town of 27,000, that's twice the average.
So what Marine Le Pen and Front National have been able to do here is really tap into that but at grass roots levels, something that we haven't
seen before. Knocking on doors, talking to people, asking them, how can I help you with housing? How can I help you with education? And that's
exactly how they have managed to convince people here, going to hearts as well as their minds, Hala.
GORANI: That's very interesting. So the Le Pen campaign is going door-to- door, sort of the grass roots on the ground, essentially. I mean, this was a strategy used by Barack Obama in 2008. I mean, really, literally going
to hundreds and hundreds of people's home, and Marine Le Pen's campaign is using those strategies as well.
SOARES: Very much so. They have decided to -- really, in this town, you won't see many Marine Le Pen posters because, to be honest, they don't need
it. They've got the support here. You know, if you've seen the latest numbers and the first round, you know that that's who they're backing.
But they're going door to door. They are speaking to people. And they are saying, look, what is your biggest concern? The biggest concern here,
previously, was this, as I said in my piece, 70 years of being led by the Socialist Party. The last mayor was also a Socialist mayor, Hala, and he
was sent to prison for embezzlement.
[15:35:00] Then, really, the Front National came over, the Le Pen mayor. He brought taxes down by 10 percent, local taxes. So they're really making
a change, and they're spending money for infrastructure. They're spending money on bridges, on new housing. And for that, that's really the change
that people want to see.
People have been asking to be heard all of this time. They haven't by the elite. And the Front National, according to them, is really the leader,
Marine Le Pen, the person who can bring that change to them.
GORANI: OK. And very briefly, I see you're in front of the Renault car which, by the way, we asked people on Facebook, what would you like to name
the care? And the winner was Rene the Renault, I think. But there you have it, behind you with the CNN branding on it.
SOARES: Very well, that's 31 years --
GORANI: Have you tried driving it?
SOARES: Thirty-one years today. Well, I don't know whether I should admit it. We tried driving it for a bit, and then it kind of broke down, Hala.
I'm sorry. But we're going to try and get it fixed.
GORANI: Oh, dear.
SOARES: Turning 31 years today, and it has lots of miles in there. But we'll get it fixed and up and going so we can go to Paris again.
GORANI: All right. Otherwise, we are towing it back to the capital.
SOARES: Yes.
GORANI: Thanks very much, Isa Soares in Henin-Beaumont.
Well, there is a big presidential election looming on the other side of the world as well. South Koreans are getting ready to go to the polls on
Tuesday to elect a new president. Thirteen names are on the ballot. It's a very crowded field. But as Ivan Watson reports, the candidates have some
help making their voices heard and some unconventional ways of getting voters' attention. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In a basement studio, young dancers are practice their steps. Enthusiastic, but not exactly
professional.
Have you ever been a dancer before?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it's my first time to dance.
WATSON: You look like you're having fun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, because it's very fun to support a person who I like.
WATSON: Believe it or not, this is politics, Korean-style. These young volunteers are part of a campaign for a politician who is running for
president.
These dancers are supporters of Moon Jae-in, the frontrunner in South Korea's upcoming presidential election. And in this unique political
culture, song and dance go hand in hand with politics, especially in a crowded field of 13 presidential candidates.
ANDREW SALMON, AUTHOR, "MODERN KOREA: ALL THAT MATTERS": This is a country where you'd go to any extreme to achieve your aim. And if your aim is to
become president, then you're going to have to field divisions of singers and dancers out on the street doing anything they can to grab public
attention and seize, you know, those votes.
WATSON: Look at the scene outside a T.V. station ahead of a presidential debate. Cheerleaders for each candidate, side-by-side, at full volume.
Welcoming each politician as their motorcades roar in for the main event. Korea's flashy approach to politics may sometimes look silly, but the
issues at stake are very real.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am very worried about North Korea because, other big countries and we are a small country. Korea is a small country, and I'm
afraid.
WATSON: Voter concerns about North Korea's nuclear threats and growing youth unemployment, also shared by politicians like Yoo Seong-min.
What's the most important issue of this election?
YOO SEONG-MIN, SOUTH KOREAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Right now, overwhelming economic crisis and national security. That's the most
important issue right now.
WATSON: Even in times of crisis, candidates are expected to put on a show. This one includes a dancing Smurf. It is all part of business as usual
when it comes to South Korea and its K-Pop style of politics.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Seoul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: What's an election campaign without a dancing Smurf? This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
In a few moments, political cartoonist Plantu has left his mark on many, many elections. He'll reveal the piece he's been working throughout the
show for us. Look forward to it. Stay with us, that's right after a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:41:48] GORANI: Welcome back. You are watching CNN. Political cartoonists have always, always played a special role in politics. They
have a unique brand of satire and humor, and it's been key to so many presidential elections. They've provided comfort as well in times of
national mourning and helped countries cope with the threat of terror, a topic dominating this year's French election.
And who better than "Le Monde's" legendary cartoonist, Jean Plantu? His pieces not only added levity during recent elections but also spotlighted
the electorate's concerns. Here is an example of it there.
He captured France's pain from the death of the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists. And after last year's Brussels bombings, cheered the country's solidarity
for its Belgian neighbor.
He's put his skills to work on four new books and has been working all evening on a special cartoon for us, and he's here in Paris. It's finally
time for the big reveal.
Plantu, thanks so much for being with us. First, I want to show our viewers what you drew this evening on your iPad, which, I'm seeing you're
now using an iPad and not the old school --
JEAN PLANTU, POLITICAL CARTOONIST, LE MONDE: Because I use my finger. You know, when I draw a little mouse, I do it like that. And then --
GORANI: Yes. There it is, by the way, in full.
PLANTU: Then the cartoon --
GORANI: On our screen.
PLANTU: -- is finished. And I began --
GORANI: What you --
PLANTU: -- the cartoons with Obama --
GORANI: OK.
PLANTU: -- because he talked to Macron. Maybe the next president, I don't know.
GORANI: Yes.
PLANTU: And your President is thinking, he is not able to know -- I'm not sure, you know, with France but --
GORANI: So you gave him the globe?
PLANTU: -- we can try to express him. And we can show that to speak, where is Europe? Because, sometimes, I am not sure, you know, where is
Europe. And together, they are speaking about France.
GORANI: But Obama, he even put out a video in English supporting Emmanuel Macron.
PLANTU: Yes, yes, to support.
GORANI: What did you think of that?
PLANTU: It is a good idea.
GORANI: OK.
PLANTU: I like very much --
GORANI: Because he is popular in France?
PLANTU: -- because it's not usually do that for another next president. It is new. And well, we love Obama. And we have a problem --
GORANI: And Donald Trump supports Marine Le Pen.
PLANTU: And we have a problem with your Trump president.
(LAUGHTER)
GORANI: Right, 90 percent approval rating for Barack Obama.
PLANTU: Right.
GORANI: I want to show our viewers some of your other cartoons and the drawings from just the last few weeks. We'll get to the one of Xavier
Jugele in a moment, but let's put the first one up now. And it's one of -- in fact, no, that's the one that's come up now. This is the police officer
who was killed just a few hundred meters behind us here on the Champs- Elysees.
PLANTU: And I would like -- because I am a cartoonist, and for the cartoonists, I think, because now is the war but the beginning of a big
problem. And now, we cartoonists, we have to draw every day, maybe every week, the cartoons about the army, French Army, and also the police because
they are killed sometimes in France, for our freedom. And the cartoonists have to draw the policemen when they are killed.
GORANI: And you turned the Arch of Triumph into a ballot box?
PLANTU: Yes, yes.
GORANI: So you're telling people to vote?
[15:44:59] PLANTU: Because the Triomphe is like a ballot box. And they can imagine the future because the dove is the future of the vote.
GORANI: OK. Let's look at the next drawing here that we have. I can't see it anymore. Unfortunately, I have lost that connection here. But if
we look at the next one.
PLANTU: And for example, I think --
GORANI: No, that is not the one. Can you tell me -- "Le vrai visage du debat," the real face of the debate?
PLANTU: Yes.
GORANI: So it is the one where you see both the --
PLANTU: Yes, because it was a surprise.
GORANI: Yes.
PLANTU: Because --
GORANI: And a crying Marianne.
PLANTU: -- we have Macron, he was speaking with Marine Le Pen. And I drew Macron like that. But before Macron, it was not Marine Le Pen. It was the
father. It was Jean-Marie --
GORANI: You didn't draw Marine, you drew her father?
PLANTU: Yes. At the beginning, I began a cartoon for Marine Le Pen.
GORANI: Yes.
PLANTU: But it was the father, and the father is not a good guy for the future of France.
GORANI: I have to day, I'm particularly amused by these two poor moderators who, for the first hour of the debate, we thought might be
missing in action. But you have Marianne, the symbol of France, crying. Why is she crying?
PLANTU: Because, maybe, it is a big problem. Because if Macron is winning next Sunday, a big, big part of France is Marine Le Pen and her father.
GORANI: I see.
PLANTU: And I think that it is not good for the future of the freedom of expression.
GORANI: Let's look at the next one. Here, you have -- I believe it's the one of Donald Trump's hair turning into Marine Le Pen's wings, I believe.
PLANTU: Right, right. I drew these cartoons because Marine Le Pen is like Trump, because they have the same harp (ph) and the same -- all the winds
of the future of Marine Le Pen and it is the beginning of the harp (ph). And maybe --
GORANI: But Marine Le Pen predates Donald Trump by many decades. She has been with the National Front from -- I mean, he father was the founder of
this party. She is actually a veteran politician, and Donald Trump is an upstart, a reality show star and a real estate billionaire. How are they
similar?
PLANTU: Because they speak of -- what is the middle -- when we --
GORANI: The stomach?
PLANTU: Yes.
GORANI: From their gut?
PLANTU: Yes.
GORANI: Yes, OK.
PLANTU: And they speak of the -- because they don't open of the order of the world. Marine Le Pen, she's not able to speak -- what is -- smiling is
good in the world with the other country. And maybe, I think, your president, it is the same. The same due (ph).
GORANI: And talk to us a little bit about what has inspired you most this election in terms of your drawings as we watch more. And by the way,
there, we're seeing, once again, the Donald Trump hair turning into Marine wings one. What has inspired you the most?
PLANTU: I think, in the future, we have this problem in the future because, if Macron is winning, I hope, I think there's a big part in France
that are thinking, we have to make borders against the other country. And I go to the school in France and in Europe to express to the young people,
you will have to speak your thoughts up because the future is not easy for the young people.
GORANI: But how do you reach out to people who feel like Marine Le Pen is the answer because they have suffered? They have suffered from
globalization. They have no job. And you know what it's like to feel vulnerable to the threat of, you know, terrorism and things. How do you
speak to them?
PLANTU: We have to imagine the future of France. It's like that, with free Marianne. Because the people in France, they don't imagine we are
blue, we are white, we are red, and we have to speak each other. Now, it is a big boulder between the three Marianne.
GORANI: Right.
PLANTU: I hope, if I go continue with my association, "Cartooning for Peace" --
GORANI: Yes. And --
PLANTU: -- with my friend of United States also, we speak --
GORANI: Here it is.
PLANTU: -- all in the schools in France and in Europe to begin a new conversation to make the future -- we make bridges, and Marine Le Pen make
broken the bridges. With the pedagogy and the school, we are building the bridges in the future.
GORANI: And you mentioned it, and I want to mention it as well, "Cartooning for Peace," and this is a set of four books that have come out,
I believe, today or yesterday? Today.
PLANTU: And next week in the library.
GORANI: OK.
PLANTU: Because we can speak about Trump, and we speak about immigrants.
[15:50:00] GORANI: About migrants, about women.
PLANTU: And the women. And Europe.
GORANI: And about the European Union.
PLANTU: Because Europe, you know --
GORANI: All in cartoons. This is fascinating, by the way.
PLANTU: Cartoon from all over the world.
GORANI: From all over the world. Yes.
PLANTU: Muslim cartoons, Jewish cartoons, Christian cartoons, agnostic cartoons. And together, Kofi Annan, we build an association, "Cartooning
for Peace," to build bridges between the countries.
GORANI: It's very interesting to see the takes of other countries as well. Plantu, always a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us.
PLANTU: Merci.
GORANI: Merci a vous.
PLANTU: And I drew a good Marianne for the next week.
GORANI: "Bleu, Blanc, Rouge." Thank you so much.
PLANTU: "Bleu, Blanc, Rouge."
GORANI: We'll be right back on CNN. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: I am joined now Olivier Royant. He's the editor-in-chief of "Paris Match." Thanks for being with us.
OLIVIER ROYANT, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, PARIS MATCH: Yes.
GORANI: Emmanuel Macron has every reason to feel confident, doesn't he? Does Marine Le Pen still have a chance? And if so, how could she win?
ROYANT: Of course, you never know. I mean, the last poll that we published this afternoon gave Emmanuel Macron 63 percent of the votes.
GORANI: Yes.
ROYANT: Thirty-seven for Marine Le Pen. It's only estimation. I mean, you have wait for the vote, so everything can happen. The feeling that we
have this afternoon, Macron, after visiting the Cathedral of Rodez, he went back to home. He went to rest and put an end to the campaign quite early,
which means they seem to be quite confident.
GORANI: They feel confident.
ROYANT: They feel confident.
GORANI: What did French people make of the fact that Barack Obama, very popular in France, actually recorded a video of support for Emmanuel
Macron? Highly unusual for an ex-president of the United States.
ROYANT: That was amazing. You know, as Plantu pointed out before, the French people, basically, they love Barack Obama. He's a major star in
France.
GORANI: Yes.
ROYANT: But Emmanuel Macron landed a coup last week in talking to Barack Obama on the phone.
GORANI: Yes.
ROYANT: So we knew that there was something in between the --
GORANI: Something going on.
ROYANT: -- in between the two men. On the Marine Le Pen front, I mean, as you were saying before, we have a feeling that the camp is depressed
because of what happened, the outcome of the debate. At the same time, everywhere that those candidate goes, they are meeting people who are
angry.
GORANI: Yes, angry.
ROYANT: And at some point --
GORANI: And France is angry.
ROYANT: France is --
GORANI: You would say France is angry today?
ROYANT: Yes.
GORANI: But why?
ROYANT: I mean, the front of the France is angry.
GORANI: Yes.
ROYANT: And when Trump won in the United States and when the Brexit won in the vote in England, what happened is that the anger could express itself.
In France, if Macron, the center, the middle of the road candidate, won, oh, will the anger express itself.
GORANI: Where will the 40 percent of voters who voted either for Marine Le Pen, for another right candidate, Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, for Melenchon,
also anti-establishment, anti-E.U. -- these are all angry people.
ROYANT: Yes, they are angry and what --
GORANI: And they have a right to be angry.
ROYANT: Yes, absolutely.
GORANI: A lot of them are jobless. A lot of them have issues.
ROYANT: And they are deceived by Marine Le Pen, of course, because she was successful in rebranding herself. I mean, she was successful in portraying
herself as the working class hero. And she understood that the extreme left or the left was not speaking to these dissatisfied people anymore, so
she rushed to these people and she managed to transform herself.
This is not after the debates. I mean the majority of the French people could see that Marine Le Pen went on the dark side of the National Front,
and she was back here. She took her party back to the old history, which has not been her campaign so far.
[15:55:10] GORANI: What happened? Why did she suffer after the debate in the polls? What did she do wrong?
ROYANT: Well, there was an immediate effect. I think that there was some kind of -- I think the French people, they respect tremendously the office
of the presidency. At some point, we had a feeling that Marine Le Pen didn't want to govern. I mean, she was facing this man ready to do the
job, dressed as the next president, and she was --
GORANI: Even though he's a 39-year-old upstart --
ROYANT: Yes, yes. And she was --
GORANI: -- who's never campaigned?
ROYANT: Yes, and she was playing with him, playing loudly and being very aggressive. At some point, I think there was something that the people
were saying, no, this can't work. So there was an immediate effect. For the first time in the French republic, I think the debate has an effect on
the votes.
GORANI: And this was, I understand, one of the first times that we actually saw reaction shots of the other candidate while the one was
speaking.
ROYANT: Yes, for the first time. Yes.
GORANI: That was one interesting show in itself.
ROYANT: And we were in front of our screen and saying, why don't the journalist intervene in the debate? Actually, afterwards, they explained
that they didn't have the right, that the rules were very strict.
GORANI: OK.
ROYANT: And they have to -- they do not have the right to interfere between these candidates, so it went on and on. And people were probably
witnessing the worst debate in the French republic.
What I should point out two days before the election, or one day and half before the election, the results will be very important. Why? Because
what kind of mandate will Emmanuel Macron take out this election?
GORANI: Of course.
ROYANT: And then will Marine Le Pen, Sunday night, be at 40 percent, 42, 38? And will she position herself as the next official leader of the
opposition?
GORANI: Right.
ROYANT: And I have a feeling that -- I interviewed Emmanuel Macron last week, and I had a feeling that he was already the day after.
GORANI: Yes.
ROYANT: Being the president already, and it could be a lonely man on Monday morning.
GORANI: And I'm going to say, I'm sure we'll see Marine Le Pen, as well, the day after. She might start campaigning 24 the hours after the vote.
ROYANT: Exactly. And she will be back in fire. They will rejoin in five weeks from now for the general election.
GORANI: That's true. Olivier Royant, the editor-in-chief of "Paris Match." Thank you so much for being with us --
ROYANT: Yes.
GORANI: -- and for giving us your final thoughts on this special edition of the program.
I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
