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Trump Speaks After Meeting with Netanyahu; Source: Flynn to Plead 5th, Decline Subpoena; Saudi Arabia, Israel Join Trump in Attacking Iran. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired May 22, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The White House is not under any impression that's going to happen on this trip but hoping to set the table with that. One of the ways they're doing that and we've heard this over the last 48 hours, when the president was in Saudi Arabia, now that he's in Israel, he is sort of playing the game of the enemy is my friend. He was talk in Saudi Arabia about the threat posed by Iran and low and behold he arrests in Jerusalem after visiting the western wall and so forth and is talking about the threat posed by Iran and the Iran nuclear deal. And so this is a message that we're hearing from the president repeatedly throughout this foreign trip. He hasn't said so far he's going to rip up that Iran nuclear deal. I suppose that will be one of the questions that is asked. But he certainly emphasizing that every step of the way.

But I do think it's interesting, Wolf, once again, the president who comes from that really background of putting Middle East peace in negotiation terms as if it is a deal that perhaps he can bring his skills to bear and make happen. The prime minister certainly someone who will be driving a hard bargain in that department and the president now is going to meet with the Palestinian president next. He's going to find perhaps not as receptive an audience because the Palestinians have their own laundry list of issues they feel the United States has not paid close enough attention to and they certainly feel that perhaps the president's feelings are more heavily weighted in the direction of Israel than in terms of the Palestinians. I think it will be fascinating must watch TV to see how the president handles the Palestinian president after this very warm reception he's received here in Israel from the prime minister and the Israeli president and so on.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: He received a very warm reception from the Saudi king in Riyadh. Now very warm reception from the prime minister of Israel in Jerusalem.

John Kirby and Elise Labott are still with us.

John, the notion, the theory is that with this Iranian fear that the Saudis, Egyptians, the moderate Sunni Arab states have, maybe you bring them into this peace process. They have a lot of money to contribute that the pa Palestinians, whether it the West Bank and working together with Israel and the United States, you can come up with some sort of two state solution. That's the U.S. Goal right now. JOHN KIRBY, CNN MILITARY & DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: Yes. He's clearly

trying to use Iran as a unifying element. He's putting his finger on the Sunni. When you put your thumb on the scale in terms of the Muslim faith like that, you are making it a little bit harder to get long-term peace in the region, which is what he says he wants. I also think, again, you've got to think of domestic politics and Israel don't really lend themselves to finding a so collusion to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. It could take some time. But you notice what you didn't hear. You didn't hear either guy talk about the two-state solution. That's what will really be interesting to see what happens tomorrow when he meets with President Abbas. I don't know that it's going to be a frosty meeting with President Abbas, but I do think that President Abbas is going to want to drive down to more practical elements of mid east peace including a two-state solution.

BLITZER: Elise, what did you think?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I think a couple of things are going on here. First of all, John is right about that. These Arabs are not going to make a peace deal with Israel, are not going to get close to Israel and have a partnership with Iran -- against Iran until there is some steps for the Palestinian. I've been speaking to a lot of Arab diplomats. President Trump is trying to bring Israel into the fold. Yes, there is a lot of cooperation to be had but we're not going to do it fully or publicly until Israel starts to take some steps. When President Trump says there's a lot of love in the world, there's not a love of Israel in the world from these Arab states.

Also what you didn't hear President Trump say is echoing what Prime Minister Netanyahu said, a unified Jerusalem, the unified capital of the Jewish state. This will continue to be a pic prickly issue. This is the embrace that the Israelis expected. As he goes to the Palestinian territory, he's going to say very nice things to President Abbas. Yes, the relationship with the U.S. and Israel, is sacrosanct. It will be a very tight relationship, but I don't think they're going to get a rubber stamp from President Trump like they expected.

[13:34:43] BLITZER: The Israelis are encouraged that there are behind-the-scenes, not publicly, behind-the-scenes movement in terms of cooperation between Israel and various Arab states that haven't necessarily happened in the past. That's encouraging not just to the Israelis, but to the U.S. side as well.

Everybody stay with us.

There's a lot more coming up, including breaking news here in Washington. Michael Flynn expected to refuse to cooperate with the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee's investigation. We have new information, new details, what this means for the investigation, a lot more, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now to a major new development in the Russia investigation here in the United States. CNN has learned the president's former national security adviser, retired General Michael Flynn, plans to plead the Fifth and will not testify before the Senate Intelligence Committee as requested. We're also told he will decline the official subpoena sent to him by the committee investigating Russia's meddling in the 2016 presidential election.

Joining us now, CNN legal analyst, Laura Coates, former federal prosecutor; and CNN congressional correspondent, Phil Mattingly, up on Capitol Hill.

Phil, what does this mean for General Flynn for the Russia investigation? This is a major new development, a former national security adviser to the president of the United States refusing to testify.

[13:40:53] PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No question about it, Wolf. What it means at least in the near term is it is unlikely you will see Michael Flynn in a public forum discussing what actually occurred, that all of these investigations are looking into anytime soon. A source close to him said it would be highly imprudent for him to do such a thing. It's also important to pay attention to the fact that not only is there Congressional probes going to on, but an FBI investigation. Several friends have received a subpoena because of this investigation. It's worth noting as well that Michael Flynn's lawyers requested or at least discussed the possibility of immunity with the Senate Intelligence Committee earlier on in this process. That was rejected. I'm told it would still be rejected up to this point in time. What this means is as the Senate Intelligence Committee continues its investigation, really kind of quickens the pace of that investigation as it currently stands. Michael Flynn's participation and testimony and the documents the committee has requested for Michael Flynn related to any contacts between the former national security adviser and Russian intelligence officials, those will not be part of the investigation.

BLITZER: Laura, explain for our viewers here in the United States and around the world the legal issues involved for General Flynn right now, his decision apparently to plead the Fifth, refuse to answer questions from members of Congress. The argument against that is, if you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide, why not just go up there and tell everything you know?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The Fifth Amendment is geared towards providing you with protection not to incriminate yourself. People who say the Fifth Amendment is used by only the guilty are really shortsighted in the long run. The government has the burden to show your guilt. You don't have the burden to prove your innocence. Therefore, it is actually prudent of him to make sure that he is not offering ways to incriminate himself, given that he has at least four investigations around him.

Having said that, while he can certainly use his prerogative and say I'm not going to respond to your subpoena or give you documents, there are legal consequences, one of them being contempt of court. There are two avenues to get there. You can recommend to the DOJ, the Justice Department to actually hold the person in contempt or you can ask a federal court. It doesn't always work out to get the contempt advance, but it's certainly a consequence here.

But overall, remember, he is facing a huge investigation. It is criminal in nature. It will have certainly jail time associated with it. He's probably getting advice from his counsel to not provide information at this time, given the appointment of Robert Mueller as special counsel, because he knows there's maybe a probe, whatever he says, whatever he says, whatever he gives over in a document form can be used against him and likely will be used against him.

BLITZER: All right, Laura. Thank you.

Phil, on this Hill, thanks to you as well.

I want to bring in Juana Summers, CNN politics reporter; CNN Politics reporter and editor-at-large, Chris Cillizza; and CNN senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson.

The potential fallout from this could be significant.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: In some ways, we kind of saw this coming because Flynn at least through his attorney expressed a desire for immunity from both of the panels that wanted to hear him testify. So in that way it's not surprising. But what this means is all of the questions about Michael Flynn, what did he know, what was the nature of the relationship between Donald Trump and Michael Flynn, what Donald Trump knew. All of those answers won't be answered. All of those questions will still hangover Michael Flynn and hangover this White House. Of course, we don't know what Michael Flynn ends up doing in terms of cooperating with this special counsel, with Robert Mueller. It also gives the fact that we have investigations going on in two parallel tracks. One going on in Congress or multiple investigations going on in Congress and then one going on from Robert Mueller, this special counsel. We don't know how they're going to kind of affect each other and whether or not they'll kind of be conflicts between these parallel investigations.

BLITZER: During the campaign, Chris, you remember this well, then- Candidate Donald Trump had this to say about Hillary Clinton's staffers pleading the Fifth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's people taking the Fifth Amendment. Four people, plus the guy who illegally did the server. You know, he put in the illegal server. So there are five people taking the Fifth Amendment. Like you see on the mob, right? You see the mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

[13:44:49] CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER & CNN EDITOR-AT- LARGE: Well, I feel like there's either a Trump -- a piece of Trump tape or a Trump tweet that fits every circumstance essentially. Two things. One, I actually think, and Laura makes the right legal point, but I think Donald Trump is channeling what the majority of people think about taking the Fifth which is they have something to hide. What does it mean for Donald Trump? Nia touched on this. Just to accentuate it. Why knowing what he knew, being warned by the former -- at that point the current president of the United States, on November 10th, stay away from Michael Flynn as national security adviser, with all the red flags he knew prior, why was Michael Flynn hired? So the deeper that this Michael Flynn thing goes, the more poorly, even if there's no ties beyond this, the more poorly it reflects on Donald Trump. Let's remember one of his first hires, one of his closest advisers and he repeated said he would hire only the best people because all the people currently working in there were stupid and bad.

BLITZER: It's interesting, right after Memorial Day, the former FBI director who was fired by President Trump, James Comey, he has agreed to testify about all of everything he knows in open session before the Senate Intelligence Committee.

JUANA SUMMERS, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Absolutely, Wolf. I think that Laura and Chris has made this. The willing advice that Mike Flynn is getting is not do this. To plead the Fifth. Given the fact that Comey has said he'll testify and do so publicly t does come from the judgment of President Trump, has he made the right decisions. Why he did not separate himself from Michael Flynn in those 18 days. I think this could become a distraction for them, particularly on a week where he has a high stakes foreign trip.

(CROSSTALK)

HENDERSON: It also shows how much this is out of Trump's control. Right? I mean, they can message all they want. But there's so many people at this point who are involved at this point involved, not only Flynn, House and Senate investigations are going on and now this probe. You can't message your way out of this at this point. And so many things are at this point just they can't control at all.

CILLIZZA: That's exactly right. And frankly, Donald Trump has not demonstrated the ability to control the messaging anyway, point one. And point two, and Juana touched on this, it's more smoke around an already very smoky situation. Donald Trump insists there's no fire.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: He says it's a witch hunt.

CILLIZZA: Yeah, witch hunt, It's just Flynn, Comey, Carter Page, Paul Manafort, Jared Kushner. There's just a lot of pieces there that none of them are definitive proof of absolutely anything. That's why we have this special counsel and this investigation. But it just feels like usually innocent people, totally innocent people, say I want to talk as much as I can. They don't plead the Fifth. More smoke in that. At some point, I think we'll find out whether there was fire or not. Donald Trump continues to insist nothing to see here, everything is totally fine. Meanwhile, we've got a lot of smoke where he can't see through it. Neither can we.

BLITZER: General Flynn, Juana, has the right to remain silent. He's under investigation. But he will speak presumably if the Congress grants him immunity from prosecution. What are the chances of that happening?

SUMMERS: It's not clear from the reporting that we've done on the Hill so far. I haven't seen a lot of people rallying behind. One question that sticks with me is we talk about the smoke and that there are all of these characters around. What happened when, the conversations that are being had. The question after spending a weekend reporting is how much do the American people actually know about all of these allegations? And how much they actually care about the wrongdoing. I spoke to a lot of Trump supporters and they say they think this is just that smoke and this doesn't change their opinion on the man they voted to elect.

BLITZER: He still has, as you well know, according to the polls, among those who voted for him, President Trump still has an enormous amount of support.

CILLIZZA: He does. He has polarized even more extremely. Not a lot of people like I don't really know how I feel about Donald Trump. You're either one or the other. I think it would take a crowbar to get some of these people away from Donald Trump. Because when we talk about this and we report on this, they just ignore all of it or to the extent they pay attention they dismiss it as fake news. It's not going to change that base. The longer this goes, the harder it is to do what he said he would do which is get things done, economy, health care reform, immigration, build the wall. Those things don't go anywhere because Congress is totally fixated on this and it takes all their time.

HENDERSON: That's when you start to see people who supported Trump maybe, maybe, maybe, at some point start to question whether or not he can make good on all those promises.

[13:49:51] BLITZER: We're going to stay on top of this breaking news. A major development involving General Flynn today.

Guys, thanks very much.

Coming up, President Trump didn't just call on Muslim leaders to unite against terrorism. He also called on them to isolate Iran. We're going to speak to a former Iraqi ambassador to the United States to get his take on what the president is now saying.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: President Trump took his criticism of the Iran nuclear deal signed by the Obama administration and other international countries on the road. Government officials in Saudi Arabia and Israel joined in attacking Iran. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ADEL AL-JUBEIR, SAUDI FOREIGN MINISTER: They want to have better relations with us but then they attack our embassies and attack our diplomats. This is the behavior of a state sponsor of terrorism.

TRUMP: We gave them wealth and prosperity. And we also gave them an ability to continue with terror and with all of the things they've been doing. Because no matter where we go, we see the signs of Iran in the middle east.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:55:15] BLITZER: I want to bring in Lukman Faily. Until last year, he was the former Iraqi ambassador to the United States.

Mr. Ambassador, thank you so much for joining us.

LUKMAN FAILY, FORMER IRAQI AMBASSDOR TO THE UNITED STATES: Thank you for having me.

BLITZER: I want to get your quick reaction to what we heard in Riyadh yesterday, what we're hearing in Jerusalem today, as far as Iran being the unifying force for the Sunni Arab states and the Israelis and the U.S. and perhaps forging a new Middle East.

FAILY: But this being promoted as Shia versus Sunni, and that's the dangerous element.

BLITZER: You speak as an Iraqi, who is a Kurd as well as a Shia.

FAILY: Yes.

BLITZER: So why are you upset, speaking as a Shia?

FAILY: No, not just that. As an Iraqi, because it's bundling everybody who is not Sunni in one camp. And even if you're not with Iran, you would be bundled as that. So the people that are invited to Riyadh, it's being promoted as alliance of Arab and Sunni countries so to that it, Sunni countries. So to me that's a dangerous narrative to promote.

BLITZER: You're upset that Haider al Abadi, the prime minister of Iraq, who is a Shia, he was not invited to Riyadh. Is that --

FAILY: I'm confused, rather than upset. I'm confused as what's the message here. Who do you want to reach out to? This polarization does not help. Attention needs to be reduced to manage the situation. All the Arab springs and other issues, terrorism is an issue, and we have ISIS and everything else, that's a Sunni problem. So I think that's what needs to be addressed.

BLITZER: You heard the Saudi foreign minister, al-Jubeir, you heard the president of the United States lash out at Iran for what they are doing in the region, the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism, they call Iran, specifically, what they are doing in Iraq right now. Do you see the Iranian role in Iraq as something that is destabilizing and terrible? FAILY: Iran has a political interest in Iraq. It may not align with

the Iraqi interests. That's the complexity of the region, but to be viewed that anybody who is a Shia is with Iran, that's the dangerous narrative here. So to me, that's the problem that we have. My ex- colleagues, the minister of Saudi Arabia, the president's statement, and all, try to oversimplify the problem. We have a problem of ISIS. Does it have to do with Iran? So to me, over simplification is dangerous.

BLITZER: Adel al-Jubeir, the Saudi foreign minister, a man you know well, used to be the Saudi ambassador --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: -- here in Washington before he became foreign minister, not only went after the Iranian role in Syria, he went after Hezbollah saying they are playing a disruptive role.

FAILY: I understand that. What I'm trying to say is to -- the region is a bit more complicated, as the president is finding out. Previous narratives of Islam terrorism that now saying it's a good sign that based off change of that administration and views is to me something that has not fully understood the nuance of the problem.

BLITZER: What do you think of the way the president spoke about Islam yesterday?

FAILY: It's a very good sign but, again, the dramatic change of the narratives statements versus election campaign tells me they have not fully digested the nuances of the region. They have not fully understood how to tailor it. I do understand that a good sign out of this is that the U.S. is interested in engaging the region. That we need that. But at the same time, taking signs this early means they have not fully digested it.

BLITZER: Your prime minister, Haider al Abadi, did he have good talks with President Trump?

FAILY: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Are they on the same page?

FAILY: There's good chemistry. They are on the same page. But the problem we have, we are confused over the last or 48 hours. How do we read this as Iraqis? Where do we stand on this?

BLITZER: When will Mosul be liberated?

FAILY: In a few weeks.

BLITZER: A few weeks?

FAILY: Yes.

BLITZER: Three weeks, four weeks?

FAILY: I don't know exactly. There less than 10 percent left on the eastern side. So 90 percent has already been liberated.

BLITZER: Lukman Faily is the former Iraqi ambassador to the United States.

FAILY: I am.

BLITZER: Mr. Ambassador, you're always welcome here.

FAILY: Thank you, sir.

BLITZER: Thank you so much for joining us.

FAILY: You're welcome. Thank you.

BLITZER: That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."

In the meantime, the news continues right now right here on CNN.

[14:00:03] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go, top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

We are watching two major stories for you breaking at this moment.