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Manchester Terror Probe Spreads to Libya; Police Make Sixth Arrest in Terror Investigation; UK Criticizes U.S. for Leaks on Manchester Attack; Manchester United Win Europa League on Emotional Night; Police: This is a Network That We Are Investigating;

Aired May 24, 2017 - 16:00   ET


[16:00:00] RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR: Big Ben chiming, nine o'clock in the United Kingdom behind me. As the investigation into Monday's bombing in

Manchester expands rapidly. New arrests and raids. The United Kingdom at its highest level of threat alert. Good Evening form outside the houses of

Parliament at Westminster in London.

I'm Richard Quest. And tonight, extra security is fanning out across the British Capitol and other cities as we get new details on the Manchester

bomber. The point of terror plot that may branch out far beyond the United Kingdom.

According to a Libyan militician Salman Abedi brother, Hisham, has been arrested in Tripoli while planning a terror attack. It says he confessed

under interrogation. The both brothers belong to ISIS and were aware of the Manchester plot. CNN's not been able to independently verify the

malicious claims.

The U.S. and the UK officials have variety said Salman himself was recently in Libya before returning to the UK a day or two before the attack. And a

Abedi family friend tells CNN that it was his father who took him to Libya because he feared he was getting into trouble or would get into trouble in


The number of people arrested by the greater Manchester police in connection with the bombing has now risen to five. And the implication is

clear, the police are hunting a network of terrorists.


IAN HOPKINS, CHIEF CONSTABLE, GREATER MANCHESTER POLICE: I think it's very clear that this is a network that we are investigating. And as I said it

continues at a pace. This extensive investigation is going on and activity taking it a place across Greater Manchester as we speak. So, thank you

very much ladies and gentlemen.


QUEST: Clarissa Ward is in Manchester tonight and joins me. Now Clarissa, they'll be plenty of time during the course of our program to get into

obviously, the grief, but these events, and active cell, a network now being searched, with your experience what does this tell us and what does

it mean?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting, Richard. Because it's not just the fact that we are now

looking at a potential network of terrorists with bomb making capabilities. But that network appears to stretch further than the UK. We know now that

the Libya connection appears to be strong. And I just wanted to touch again on the point you made earlier about the brother. We're hearing now

from a Libyan militia, and as you mention, we can't confirm it. That the brother of the bomber Hisham Abedi has been arrested by a militia. That he

was planning an attack on Tripoli, Libya. That he spent time in the United Kingdom here while his brother was reportedly coordinating and

choreographing the attack. He only went back to Libya, according to this militia, on April 16th. But apparently, he even told them under

interrogation that he and his brother Salman, were both members of ISIS.

We're also hearing from a family friend that the father of the bomber and his brother, Hisham, had actually brought them to Libya because they were

causing too much trouble here in the United Kingdom. They were reportedly involved in some kind of a grievance with the gang. They wanted to get

revenge according to this family friend, for the death of one of their friends who had been killed by the gang.

He took them to Libya, confiscated their passports, but then Salman was able to lie to his father claiming that he was going to Saudi Arabia for

the Umrah pilgrimage. And took his passport and came back here to perpetrate the attack.

QUEST: OK, so this picture -- and I understand it's early days -- this picture of a network operating in the United Kingdom and bearing in mind,

that as I was reading what one expert was saying, you don't just put together a bomb like this out of things you find in the local supermarket.

This required an element of expertise either from them themselves, or from others and external forces.

WARD: Absolutely, Richard, I mean I think it was clear to quite a few of us when this attack first happened that this did marker departure for some

of the more recent attacks that we've seen in the West with improvised weapons.

[16:05:02] People using things like trucks or cars or knives. This was a bomb. It was a highly effective explosive. 22 people were killed. There

are indications that this was a carefully choreographed attack. The timing of it was done just so that the bomb went off as all those people were

pouring out of this stadium and they were in that kind of crush zone, that funnel on their way to the train station. So, for number of reasons, the

reason authorities are taking this so seriously is because it really has become apparent that it was quite a sophisticated attack. The worry now

is, did ISIS orchestrate and coordinate it? If so, did they do it from Libya? Did they do it from the United Kingdom? How big does the network

stretch? These are the questions authorities are asking themselves tonight, Richard.

QUEST: OK, so, we've look at the, if you like, those that committed the atrocity. Now let's perhaps remember the important ones, those who are the

victims. Behind you tonight, tell me what's happening?

WARD: Well, it's really, it's quite a beautiful scene. I don't know if you can hear the singing. A group of mourners have just started impromptu

singing hymns. People have been coming through here all evening. Earlier on in the day there was another vigil in a different square. People are

laying flowers. And I think, Richard, if yesterday was a day of shock and horror, today you really feel the grief. You really feel the outpouring of

pain of a community that has just been devastated by the hideousness of this attack.

But you also feel quite tellingly, and I have to say it's really quite moving. I've covered far, far too many of these terror attacks and I've

never seen anything quite like what we're seeing here in Manchester. This incredible embrace of community spirit. People from the Sikh community,

the Muslim community, the Jewish community, the Christian community, they're all coming out here. They're all laying flowers. They're offering

people free food. They're bring journalists drinks and water also to policemen. There's a real sense here that these people will not be

divided. They will not give in to hatred. They will not give into the divisions, because somehow that doesn't behoove the memory of all the

people who died. So many of who, Richard, as you know, were just young children.

QUEST: Clarissa, may I as if you step to one side and maybe through your microphone and the microphone on the camera we can perhaps just listen.

Thank you, if your cameraman can just give us a shot and we can see just what's being seen over there at the moment. Thank you.

WARD: We'll just show you. We'll show you some of the scene here. Our cameraman Joe Shaffer will.


WARD: Unfortunately, Richard, it's a little bit difficult to show you everything because there's such a crush of cameras here. But you can hear

the beautiful singing of these girls. You can't see them they're just behind the camera. And a lot of people are just taking a moment to just to

stand and be thoughtful. Just to try to get their heads around what's happened to this extraordinary community.

QUEST: Clarissa, thank you. We certainly feel the mood and we can hear the people singing. Clarissa Ward who is in Manchester. Thank you.

Now, while Clarissa was briefing us I've just been informed that a sixth person has been arrested. No more details. And it's also worth noting

that under the UK's very strict reporting requirements, and reporting rules when somebody is arrested and is about to be charged, there is very little

that one can say about this.

Now we know the first person was arrested almost hours after the event. And then on Tuesday the second and the third and then a fourth and a fifth.

The fifth was this afternoon and now a sixth person has been arrested. Who they are in the nature of those arrests we don't know. Will effort to find


[16:10:00] We spent times talking about the arrests and those who committed this atrocious act, but now let us reflect that this was an attack that

targeted children and families. The victims were sons, daughters, fathers and mothers and now we are learning more about them. For instance, the

parents of Marcin and Angelika Klis from Poland. They died waiting in the concert hall to collect their daughters who had been seeing Ariana Grande.

Nell Jones, this teenager from nearby Cheshire. Her head teacher described her as a bright and popular student.

There was Martyn Hett, 29-year-old Manchester resident. His brother Dan said the family was heartbroken.

So, remembering those we lost and at the same time crucially remembering the wounded who are still fighting for their lives in many cases.

Emergency doctors at the Royal Manchester hospital, the Children's Hospital said, treating the victims has been hard for everyone at every level.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the hardest things that certainly I've directly dealt with, with my colleagues in Children's Hospital is looking after

children who we didn't know who they were, we didn't know their name. We hadn't identified them. And I can imagine what their parents were going

through until we have done that. But actually, it was more remarkably hard.


QUEST: Muhammad Lila is at Manchester hospital where many of the people hurt in the attack are being treated, joins me now. Before we get into it,

please do update us on the condition as best we know of those who are critical.

MUHAMMAD LILA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that there are still a number of patients right behind me in the hospital that are being treated

both here and down the road at the Children's Hospital. You heard from the doctor there talking about those initial few hours, those crucial few hours

when victim after victim was being brought in. Well, I actually asked those doctors afterwards, I said, look, what you do in a situation when you

have all of these children that are brought in and you don't know who they are? And without hesitating their answer was simple, they said, "We treat

them." And that's exactly what they did. They treated them and they said it was thanks to the hard work of law enforcement and police that they were

able to track down the family members of those children and get them reunited.

But you know, Richard, you been talking a bit and we've all been talking a bit about the investigation and the multiple layers of the investigation

and that's all very crucial information, but the other side of what happened in this tragedy is the very real human toll that it has taken on

school communities, and families, and neighbors, and friends. Given how wide reaching this is, look, a lot of the victims who have lost their lives

weren't necessarily from Manchester. They were in communities surrounding Manchester. So, the impact is being felt much further than just this city.

In fact, it's been felt across the UK and that just shows you how vicious and deadly this attack was. But also, the real human impact of all of


QUEST: Muhammad Lila at the hospital, thank you.

London's Metropolitan police have just announce an extra thousand armed police officers will be deployed across the country. Now that thousand

extra police is in addition to almost a thousand troops already deployed nationwide. The soldiers have been told to guard key locations. It's

called "Operation Temperer." To give you an example, the Queen's own guard have been redeployed to help. That means the changing of the guards at

Buckingham Palace was canceled. The official threat level has only been this high twice before. Once in 2006 after plot to bring down

transatlantic planes was foiled. And in 2000 and 2:07 failed attacks in London and in Glasgow.

Dame Pauline Neville-Jones is a former head of Britain's Joint Intelligence Committee, Dame Pauline joins me from Manchester. Always good to see you,

Dame Pauline. Thank you for joining us. Let's just focus for the second on the raising of the threat level to critical. Now give us your expert

opinion because you've been there, you know what the circumstances are. What does it mean when it goes to critical?

PAULINE NEVILLE-JONES, FORMER CHAIR, UK JOINT INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: What it means when he goes to critical is that the government is in effect

saying that an attack may be eminent. It's not saying it will be eminent, but it's saying it may be eminent. Which is a considerable advance on

simply saying severe, know that there is a highly likely possibility of an attack. Now the reason the government, I think, and I'm not any longer

inside government when I was previously security minister, is that they do not yet know where the bomb maker is and whether they have made another

bomb. And so, they are extremely concerned about the possibility of another attack.

[16:15:00] When they have establish onto their satisfaction that there is not going to be a likelihood, then the level will come down.

QUEST: And on that point the Manchester police said that they're looking for in network. Now the seriousness of that is that network is still in

this city could either lash out again or escape. And we saw the results of both of those situations in Paris and in Brussels, didn't we?

JONES: Yes, I mean, I think you know the general public, and I include myself in that, do not know where this network is. And we don't know the

extent to which the government has actually established where the possible links are. They're certainly not going to take any risks. There may be

individuals in this city, I mean Manchester. Or of course there may be still abroad. But it doesn't matter even if there somewhere else because

they can communicate. So, what they need to know is that they have succeeded in finding the individuals who are potentially, immediately

dangerous and that they have succeeded in breaking up this network. They know enough to be able to prevent it acting again.

QUEST: The alleged perpetrator here Manchester born, Manchester brought up, radicalized, went to Libya. Now, Dame Pauline, I know in your post

government work you have looked at ways in which you can build a shared British community if you like, an identification of shared values. But

this is an outright rejection. So, I ask you, Dame Pauline, is it possible to deal with, to treat, to root out this sort of evil?

JONES: Well, I think so. But I think it also takes time. And it takes obviously, a very active policy on the part of not just government,

government can set guidelines, it can give leadership, but actually it requires the whole of the country in the whole of the community actually to

get behind it. We need the Muslims in this country and I think there are many of them who wish to join in the values of this country, defend them

and be helpful to actually the security of all of us. So, I don't believe that this is an impossible thing to do. Do I think it is difficult? Yes,

because it requires leadership. Not just outside government -- not just inside government but outside government. And so, we have to get together.

And I do believe as a result of this particular attack which is much more sophisticated, much more severe than we've had for some time that there

will be a renewed impetus behind this aspect of policy.

QUEST: Dame Pauline, thank you for joining us. Thank you, always good to have you on the news on these situations.

The British Home Secretary has touted the United States for leaking details about the Manchester attack and she was quite frank. She called the leaks

irritating. And Manchester's most famous export pays tribute on an emotional night in football.





QUEST: The British Home Secretary has criticized the United States for leaking information to the media about an ongoing investigation into the

Manchester attack. Amber Rudd told the BBC that the UK police are trying to protect the element of surprise.


VOICE OF AMBER RUDD, BRITISH HOME SECRETARY: It is irritating if it gets released from other sources and I have been very clear with our friends

that should not happen again.


QUEST: Juliette Kayyem is with us. Former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security, now CNN national security analyst, joins

me from Newton, Massachusetts. Juliet, the British government, the British Home Secretary, I mean she's got a right to be pretty angry when an

important detail, a name, the British did not want released, is given to their security partners and lo and behold leaks out of Washington.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It's beyond annoying. It's actually dangerous what happened. And in terms of the leaking of

Abedi's name. And the reason why is, you know, at the stage that they identify him he's dead. So, his identity matters to no one if you are in

pursuit of his brother, of his colleagues, of his roommates, whoever it is. And so, by disclosing the name you're now triggering to that network that

may have been helping him that you know who it is. If you're in the UK and that you might be after them. That gives them lead up to disperse, to hide

evidence or whatever else. And I think it explains -- go ahead.

QUEST: Well, I just want you to jump in there. I mean, those who know the name in Washington, or New York, or wherever it leaks from, they I assume

are in the inside and therefore they know the importance of that name remaining secret for the time being. So, why did they do it?

KAYYEM: I have no idea. It's sort of inexplicable. The good news is that it's rather unique. I mean, there's not an equivalent case at least

involving an eminent terror investigation. You know, in other words the day of. And so, I don't know exactly what happened. It's clear that it

came from the United States and that the name was probably disclose to U.S. officials, law enforcement intelligence so that they can begin a scrub on

him. Had he ever traveled? Did he get pinged on any of our lists? What do we know about him? And someone disclose that name. They know the

dangerousness of this and I'll tell you in light of what happened the same week in terms of White House disclosures about ISIS to the Russians, it's a

bad week for our allies in terms of what we're disclosing.

QUEST: You elegantly brought me to my last question. Which is exactly that. Bearing in mind that it came from Israel allegedly the name

concerning in Syria -- bearing in mind that leak and the fact that it seemingly Donald Trump's White House is leaking like a sieve on all sorts

of issues. Right the way down to confidential memos of White House conversations. Would you expect intelligence allies, even the five eyes,

to turn around to the Americans and say, get your act together or we won't share.

KAYYEM: I think it would be worse. That would be the good scenario that they get tough with us. My fear is that everyone will speak about

cooperation and will continue to cooperate, but really on the operational level you'll get less sharing. Because if I'm in the UK and I have

information, I'm not necessarily going to disclose it to the U.S. if I fear it's going to leak. The Israelis have already said that they're going to

change their intelligence protocols vis-a-vis the United States. I don't think the British or the EU will be as explicit as the Israelis have been

about a change of protocol. But I suspect in practice there will be changes. That's a danger to all of us. It's a danger in terms of these

investigations because we know they cross borders. We know that there is not just in Europe but that the United States has very extensive

intelligence capacity. I'll be more explicit than the Home Secretary. This is outrageous what happened.

[16:25:00] QUEST: That's why we like to have you with us for the explicit bluntness of calling it as it is. Thank you, Juliette, good to have you.

Combating terror is expected to be the focus of Donald Trump's first NATO summit. President began his day with the Pope at the Vatican as his

international trip rolled on. He was welcomed into Brussels. Barry is with the Pope. And he goes from Rome up to Brussels.

Now, Mr. Trump is to meet the 28 NATO allies on Thursday. He once labeled the alliance as obsolete. He doesn't necessarily believe that anymore.

Jim Acosta is traveling with and joins me now from Brussels.

Jim, the President can only bang on about 2 percent, paying your dues, stumping up to pay the bills for so long. Now he's got to deal with this

issue of terrorism and NATO's response.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right and remember, Richard, when he talks about what NATO partners are contributing

to the alliance that is wildly popular out on the campaign trail so the NATO partners may not want to hear this and Brussels tomorrow, but

President Trump is going to mention that again, and again, and again. He's going to keep hammering that issue until he feels like he gets some sort of

progress in that area.

But make no mistake, what happened in Manchester earlier this week has change the equation, change the conversation for this president. It change

the conversation when he met with Pope Francis earlier today in Rome. Sir, sir, please. It was during that conversation where the Pope impressed upon

the President that, listen, you have to also consider the radicalization of young people as one of the contributing factors for terrorism. That is

something the president has not talked a great deal about. That was a conversation that he had with the Pope at the Vatican. Here in Brussels

he's going to really talk to these leaders about upping the ante when it comes to the fight against ISIS and he hopes to make some headway in that


Keep in mind, the Secretary of State was briefing reporters earlier today. He hammered that message for reporters on Air Force One earlier today, that

what happened in Manchester changes the conversation, should change the conversation here in Brussels.

QUEST: Jim, are you able to take another question or do we need to end here?

ACOSTA: No, it's fine. I think were fine. Just somebody showing their affection for CNN.

QUEST: As one might expect in Brussels, Jim, as one might expect. Now, look, the reality is though that the president -- he's in such a tricky

area here now. Because he's got to convince NATO and the G7 that actually he understands the threat. Is willing to put the resources behind them and

his own domestic policies back in the U.S. do not hamper him. Can he pull that three-card trick off?

ACOSTA: He's going to try to, Richard. And keep in mind the President every step of the way is reminded of what's happening back home as well.

Don't forget, he has this Russia investigation that he's going to have to deal with in about three or four days from now when he heads back to

Washington. He just hired an outside lawyer who will work outside of the White House counsel's office to assist him in that investigation. To

essentially provide counsel in that investigation. And so, yes, this is a tricky balance for this president, but at the same time, you know, a few

weeks ago the President acknowledge that he was moving in the direction of NATO. Evolving in his position on NATO that it was not obsolete as he set

out on the campaign trail for so long. And so, we've noted this from time to time and is going to keep happening. This president what he set out on

the campaign trail may not necessarily be what happens in practice.

The Pope earlier today, the Vatican was impressing upon this president to change his mind on Paris Climate Accord. And the Secretary of State said

earlier today that the president is thinking about that. So, this president is capable of changing his views and we've seen that a lot

lately, Richard.

QUEST: Jim Acosta in Brussels. Who seems to be more at risk of friendly Belgians.

ACOSTA: They're very friendly here.

QUEST: Jim is join us -- absolutely.

Now, as we continue tonight, counterterror officials do know more about the Manchester bombing than they did yesterday. They do not know who made the

bomb and he did it that night that killed so many people. Big Ben is chiming 9:30. We have another half hour QUEST MEANS BUSINESS after the



QUEST: Good Evening, I'm Richard Quest outside Westminster the houses of Parliament in London. Allow me to update you of the latest developments,

Greater Manchester Police have now arrested six people in connection with Monday's attack. A woman was arrested in the suburb of Blakely not long

ago. British counterterrorism officials are telling CNN that the bomb maker in the Manchester attack may still be at large. An official still do

not know who made that bomb.

A Libyan militia says that the bomber's brother has been arrested in Tripoli while planning a terror attack, Hashem al Abedi confessed under

interrogation that both he and his brother Salman were members of ISIS. CNN has not been able to independently verify those claims. Now for Atika

Shubert who is in Blakely for us this evening. This latest development, and obviously, I am aware of the various reporting restrictions at this

stage, but what do we know about any of these people arrested?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: All we know at this point is that there are six people in total and they are in some way linked

to the attacker, we believe that one of them, for example, is a relative of the attacker arrested yesterday. We know another arrest happened in Wigan,

and we know the latest arrest happen here in the building behind me. A few hours ago, residence here heard an explosion and they came outside and they

saw heavily armed police moving into that building. Now two eyewitnesses inside tell us they saw a woman being arrested and that two apartments

inside were searched.

Now what exactly they were looking for we do not know yet but it is all part of this expanding investigation, is clear now from the chief constable

that this is not just focused on the attacker but on a network behind him. And as you pointed out, what is key is trying to figure out whether or not

there was a bomb maker who gave him that bomb and then of course, finding out who that person is.

QUEST: But, Atika, one of the points that Juliett Kayem was saying earlier, Pauline Neville Jones who was saying earlier, is that now that

Abedi's name is in the public domain there is this greater urgency, obviously, there is always an urgency for the police in Manchester, if you

like, to round up the suspects.

[16:35:00] SHUBERT: Exactly, and this is why initially UK authorities were reluctant to give out much information, they try and keep that information

to themselves so they can round up and reel in as many suspects or suspected links as they can. The name is out there, Salman Abedi, we know

for example his brother's flat was searched yesterday, that his younger brother has also been arrested in Tripoli, although we cannot verify the

claims that he was supposedly planning for another attack there. But this is all part of the work of investigators to try and retrace the steps,

figure out what is going on. Perhaps, it is most concerned that we know that Salman was in Libya just a few weeks ago and apparently came back to

the UK just a few days ago, now what was he doing in that time, where did he go? This is what police are looking at, they have searched this

location but also a city center location, it may be that they are retracing his steps.

QUEST: And the idea that because the Prime Minister and indeed the Home Secretary both have alluded to the fact that Abedi was known to the

authorities, but we don't the circumstances under which he was known. For example, petty crime, major crime, terrorist activities, radicalism, we

don't know do we?

SHUBERT: No, we have had a few hints for example, it didn't seem that he was a known terror suspect, however he might have been on the fringes

perhaps a recruitment network. We also know from speaking to family friends at the father for example, was very concerned about gang violence

affecting his sons. And we have also heard is that a number of Libyan youth are particularly vulnerable because they feel left behind, not just

by British society but Libyan society as well. Some of them have tried to go back after the revolution and simply were not able to fit in, came back

here and got into trouble, whether it was drugs, crime or as it seems, becoming increasingly vulnerable to terror recruiters.

QUEST: Atika Shubert who is in northern England just outside Manchester tonight. Now among all the talk of terror and grief Manchester has a small

reason, it is minor in the great scheme of things, live pictures from fans watching in Manchester, watching a major match, it was Paul Pogba who got

the first goal for United. He pointed to the heavens and celebration after scoring. The Manchester players wearing black armbands to honor the

victims of Monday's attack. Now the team will return to Manchester with a trophy. It is no consolation at all in the sense of what happened. World

sports Alex Thomas is at the match in Stockholm and joins me now, so, Alex, the match is virtually over, how was this extremely difficult issue handled

in a way that was dignified, respectful but showed that we weren't going to let terrorist determine how we live our lives?

ALEX THOMAS, CNN WORLD SPORT CORRESPONDENT: It was a huge headache for football authorities, you may remember a few weeks ago, the Champions

League which is an even bigger European club football competition than this, the Europa League, when Borussia Dortmund's coach was attacked and

there was a small bomb blast, there were no fatalities, there were injuries. And Dortmund was forced to carry on playing that event as

normal. No question that this Europa League final was ever going to be postponed because of the Manchester attack on Monday. But they did cancel

their pre-match news conference which is normally mandatory, just a short statement Jose Mourinho, charismatic but controversial coach, by twitter on

the eve of the game. And a real sense of a feeling that the team had to win it in tribute to the memories, especially, those young children killed

on Monday night in Manchester.

A huge burden for the players to bear, especially, when you consider --

QUEST: Let we just jump, let me just jump in there, Alex, let me just jump in, forgive me, we are looking at pictures from Manchester of fans

celebrating this win, and I mean I don't see the two as being in contradiction here. Do you? It is right that in Manchester they celebrate

whilst they mourn because anything else means that the terrorists win. Describe that circle for me.

THOMAS: We've seen a huge show of solidarity for the people of Manchester over the last 48 hours, haven't we, Richard. In a huge sense of pride in

the city from the people that live there. And one of the things that Manchester people are so proud about is one of their two huge football

clubs, Manchester United which seems just when the Europa League final behind me, and Manchester City, the red half and the blue half of the city,

who for once have really come together in grief and solidarity. But football is all about getting back to your primeval instincts, it is

standing there on the terraces next to your neighbors and screaming for the team that you love. And we all know the different phases of grief, many of

fans that I have spoken to on the plane over here and in the city center earlier today, or desperate just to have a release of all that anguish if

you like. And they did noisily supporting their team, the atmosphere in there the same as any other major football final, that doesn't mean the

people didn't care, of course, they did but as you say, life has to go on. And I think it will be some sort of boon for the city although as you say

can go nowhere to repairing the damage emotionally and otherwise that that city has suffered over the course of the last few days.

[16:40:00] QUEST: Alex Thomas, who is in Stockholm for us this evening, thank you, and in many ways it is reassuring to see those pictures of

celebrations. We will go to a brick showing you those pictures of fans celebrating to remind us all that life goes on after these atrocities

because if we don't then the terrorists have won. This is not a sign of disrespect, far from it, it is a sign to show that they haven't won.


QUEST: It is that moment of the day when evening gives away to night and the sky gets darker as Big Ben gets ready to chime quarter, three quarters

to the hour. The Manchester Islamic Centre has denied reports that the suspected bomber had worked there. The trustee of the mosque is now urging

anyone who has information about the attack to go to the police without delay.


FAWZI HAFFAR, MANCHESTER ISLAMIC CENTRE TRUSTEE: The horrific atrocity that occurred in Manchester on Monday night has shocked us all. It has

indeed shocked us all. This act of cowardice has no place in our religion or any other religion for that matter.


QUEST: Almost 48 hours after the attack, and the police still do not know whether the suspected attacker made the bomb or if somebody else made it.

They do say he was part of a network. Peter Neumann is the director of the International Center for the Study of Radicalization and Political

Violence, he joins me from Vienna.

[16:45:00] Peter, with your experience this bomb may be rudimentary in bomb terms, but it was still more sophisticated than anybody could ordinarily

make a lot of things that you can find in the garage or supermarket.


the bomb by now, it was a powerful device, it was also quite a sophisticated device. The battery for example that was used is not a

battery that you can easily find. If experts look at the way the bomb was constructed, we can see that this was probably not done by an amateur, it

is not the kind of bomb that you would construct if you download an instruction from the Internet. So, this indicates that this was done by

someone who probably had training or had a certain degree of expertise in constructing explosive devices.

QUEST: Then what happens now in terms of an investigation, obviously, here the police try to round up everybody that is involved, but this is going to

require links to other cities, to other militias, and it is going to require links I believe, correct if I am wrong, right back to the Middle


NEUMANN: Yes, there are three things happening. The first is that the police are going to look at their own files because we know that the

attacker was known to the authorities, he was considered to be marginal, that's why he was not paid more attention to. But they will go back to the

files to see who he was connected to. Second, they will look at communication devices and his presence on the Internet and his phone calls.

They will try to establish networks through these kinds of connections and thirdly, they will speak to foreign countries. We will speak to the

Americans and partners but they will also of course, speak to the Libyans and they will try to find out what exactly he was up to when supposedly he

traveled there.

QUEST: As this continues, is that you're feeling that the authorities have a handle in countries like UK or in Germany or in France. I mean are we

doomed and destined to have one of these events every so many months on the basis of we have to be right every time, they only have to get it right


NEUMANN: Look, Britain is probably in terms of intelligence counter terrorism, the best equipped country in Europe. If you speak to members of

intelligence services in France, and Germany and Scandinavia, you ask them who are the best in Europe, they will not hesitate to say the Brits are the

best. But what this indicates is that even a system as strategic and as sophisticated as the British one, it is not perfect. Mistakes happen and

certainly the number of cases over the past few years have been of such a quantity that even great countries have struggled.

QUEST: Peter, very much appreciate your analysis, thank you for joining us tonight from Vienna.

The quote says it all, you have got the wrong city if you think that hate will tear us apart. It was the words of the Manchester DJ Dave Haslam, he

joins us after the break to talk about the spirit of Manchester.


QUEST: Dal Babu joins me now, he is a former chief superintendent for the Metropolitan police, good to see you, sir. Now let's go through this at a

clip if I may, because I need to understand a variety of issues. These arrests taking place tonight, there are six of them so far. Obviously, you

don't know the details but give me an idea of the nature of these arrests, what they will be for?

DAL BABU, FORMER CHIEF SUPERINTENDENT, METROPOLITAN POLICE: Well, I think the police would be very, very keen not to have circulated the name of the

individual. Now unfortunately that was released by American secret services, so I think that cause some frustration. But the idea is that you

have a degree of surprise and you go and arrest these individuals based on intelligence.

QUEST: But are they just arresting friends, relatives, people who may -- I mean a lot of these people arrested in two day's time, three or five day's

time, may be released without charge.

BABU: That may well be the case with they will be looking at phone records of this individual, they will look at where he has been living, there will

be looking at associates, there will be other intelligence. This was an individual who was involved in smoking cannabis, he is involved in a whole

range of other issues. So, they have some information on this individual already, so they would use that existing information they have to make sure

they identify and arrest individuals. It is not just about the individuals, once they have arrested the individuals they can seize their

property, it is about taking their property and once they have computers, phones, they can actually look and see what websites they have been going

to. What Internet sites they have been going to?

QUEST: Military on the streets, or at least guarding institutions like Westminster so that armed police can be used elsewhere. It is not

draconian bearing in mind what has happened, but it does tell us a very sharp caveat of what is going on in Britain, doesn't it?

BABU: I think you need to look at resources, if you look at five years ago we had 140,000 police officers, we have now got 120,000. In addition to

that there is a reduction in police staff and community support officers. So, we need to look at are those gaps being filled by military at the

moment? So, I think we need to look at those resources. And some of those roles would ensure that they do the soft work, the soft terrorism, contacts

with the community. So, when you have such a reduction in police officers, it will have an impact.

QUEST: OK, now, the head of MI5, I think or MI6, I forget which it was, about three months ago basically gave a speech saying it is going to

happen. It is not a question of if, it is a question of when. And that really is a message of this is in it? Our last guest Peter Neumann said

the British are amongst the best in the world at having intelligence on these things but these will still get through.

BABU: There will always be individuals that will be clean skins, there will be individuals that are suddenly radicalized without any knowledge via

the Internet, via twitter. I think the big difference in this country compared to France, compared to Belgium is that we don't have guns.

Probably one of the strictest guidelines on guns, so if you don't have the firearms, so when you get these people who are deluded. If you look at

these atrocities they are absolutely shocking. They did not have access to guns.

QUEST: But are you surprised and I am not inviting you to criticize in a way, more like giving an assessment of the seriousness of the huge nature

of the problem. Are you surprised that somebody like Abedi can go to Libya, be dragged there by his father, come back, be in touch with those

who might be able to make a bomb of this level of sophistication, and the authorities are not aware?

BABU: I don't have any specific information but it does appear troubling that there was that level of interaction with countries like Libya. I

understand the father has been arrested in Libya at the moment. So, yes, that is troubling. I think as time passes there may well be some lessons

that we can learn from this in terms of what the authorities did, who they engaged with, who they shared the intelligence with.

QUEST: We are fortunate, we have plenty of time to delve into this evening, so, do give me an idea of what the police from your experience,

what the Metropolitan police will now be doing? Obviously, in conjunction with the Greater Manchester police.

[16:55:00] BABU: The assistant Commissioner of the Metropolitan police is an incredibly experienced individual, so he will be engaging with the

Greater Manchester police. The chief Constable he will be speaking to his colleagues around the country. And they will be looking at one, ensuring

sufficient resources going to those places. Like I said, there has been a 20,000 reduction in number of police officers. So, it will be about

coordinating those resources, so, if it means officers coming from London up to Manchester, 170 or 180 miles away, they will be making sure that

those resources go there.

They would have been talking throughout the night. There is a meeting called COBRA, the acronym cabinet office briefing room, where they will be

basically looking at how they can move resources around. Not just in the police but also elsewhere. And I think the other aspect, so that is about

the investigation, but the other aspect is reassurance. And London is an incredibly diverse community. Manchester is incredibly diverse. It is

about making sure that people remain confident that we are doing the best we can to deal with the challenges.

QUEST: Good to have you. Thank you very much for joining us.

As we continue analyze what exactly is happening, and we look at the various events, well of course, there is plenty more in the hours ahead.

Shortly Big Ben will chime 10 o'clock, stay with the network, stay with us at CNN for the latest from Manchester and around the world. In London, I

am Richard Quest. Because the news never stops around the world, around the clock, this is CNN.