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House Subpoena; Crisis Management; Trump Hires His Lawyer; Interview with Rhode Island Sen. Jack Reed; Michael Flynn Could Be Held in Contempt; Interview with Wyoming Sen. John Barrasso; Health Care Bill in Senate. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 24, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in Manchester, 7:00 p.m. in Brussels. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Right now, we're following developments on two critical stories. First, former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, is now refusing to turn over important documents to Congressional investigators.

And this could lead to more action from Congress as they try to get to the bottom of allegations of possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.

All this comes as the White House considers its own legal options and the possible addition of a crisis team.

And in Manchester England right now, there's new information on the suicide bomber. We're now learning that he traveled to Libya just days before the attack.

There's also been as many as five people arrested in connection with the deadly terror attack outside a crowded concert venue Monday night. Authorities believe a network, not just one bomber likely carried out this attack.

Also, news from U.S. officials that 22-year-old Salman Abedi, the named Manchester bomber, was in Libya three weeks before the attack and that's raising questions about how much British authorities knew about Abedi's movements.

All of this as the community mourns for the 22 victims killed in the blast; 64 people remain hospitalized with injuries.

Joining us now, our Chief International Correspondent Christiane Amanpour. She's in Manchester for us.

First of all, Christiane, what can you tell us about the investigation?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the fifth arrest, that you just mentioned, happened this afternoon in this, sort of, area. So, that's now, as you say, five people arrested here in the Manchester area.

And the chief of police, the police constable has said that it is clear that what we are investigating is a network. So, that much is clear.

The question is, what kind of network and how direct or not are any links to any terrorist groups? As you know, ISIS claimed responsibility but we still do not know the extent of the direct links and connections.

Meanwhile, here in St. Anne's Square in the center of the city, this has become the focus. And, in fact, I'm going to step away so you can see. Look at all these amazing flowers, a sea of flowers, a hash tag there, we stand together.

And there are people who've come and they've written messages of solidarity in chalk on the sidewalk and just balloons. And everybody is trying to, really, see the best side that they possibly can as this is investigation continues.

And, yes, we learned earlier today from the home secretary that this man who was the bomber was, quote, "known up to a point," is the phrasing she used, to the authorities.

So, again, we don't know the why. Was he known because he was a petty criminal? Like has been the case in so many of the other terrorist attackers over the last couple years in Europe. Or was he known for being more radicalized, a jihadi? We don't know what he was doing in Libya where he recently traveled to know and then returned in the days before this attack.

We don't know exactly the nature of the explosives that were placed in that public foyer, the lobby of the Manchester arena that killed 22 people.

And I must say, of those 64 now who are in the hospital, 20 remain, we're told, at least 20, in critical care, condition and in those units -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Very, very sad indeed. We're going to have more on this story coming up. Christiane Amanpour in Manchester, England for us with the very latest.

Meanwhile, here in Washington, the White House is circling the wagon, so to speak, as a response to the congressional investigations on Russia.

President Trump seems ready to bring in outside private counsel, private attorneys he's dealt with on other matters before, to help navigate through the investigations. The president could employ a, sort of, crisis team to deal with what's expected to be more allegations as the investigations move forward.

And, remember, the U.S. Justice Department's probe is now being led by a new special counsel, Robert Mueller, former FBI director who hasn't even started to really dig into the details.

Let's bring in our Crime and Justice Reporter Shimon Prokupecz and our Congressional Correspondent Phil Mattingly.

Shimon, first of all, what do we know about the steps the White House may be taking, the people they may be bringing in to help manage the message as these Russia investigations go forward?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, there are two different things, though, that we've learned the White House is doing. One of which is Mr. Trump has now hired, retained his personal attorney, Marc Kasowitz. He's a long-time attorney to Mr. Trump. He's from New York. He basically has been Trump's personal attorney. Has worked with him on personal matters, on real estate matters.

[13:05:00] So, he's coming in, you know, to, sort of, try and build this legal team around this investigation. Trump trusts him greatly.

And so, we're told he's going to bring him in and he's going to start putting together a team to try and address some of the legal issues, Wolf, that are going to begin to mount in this investigation.

BLITZER: It's not unusual for a president who's facing some investigations to lawyer up, as they say to, bring in some private attorneys, right?

PROKUPECZ: That's exactly right.

But, you know, in this case, you know, the president hasn't done himself any favors. You know, usually, when you lawyer up, you don't speak about matters. You don't speak about investigations.

But the president, in this case, has done the opposite. You know, all of his tweets, all of these conversations that he's had with folks in the intelligence community, with the former FBI director, are all, kind of, going to be -- going to potentially be used as evidence in any kind of investigation.

So, you know, any lawyer that comes in, I think the first thing they're going to do is tell him, you know, stop tweeting. And we'll see what the president decides to do. And if he just, kind of, quiets down.

We haven't heard from him since he's been on this trip. So, you know, going forward, all -- any attorneys, the attorneys that he starts to bill, starts to hire around this investigation, I think will tell him, you know, it's a good -- it's a good, probably, position to just not say anything about it.

BLITZER: Phil, Michael Flynn, the president's fired national security adviser, as you know, he's refusing to turn over documents to the House Intelligence Committee. What are you hearing from the committee and from members there involved in the investigation?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, far from being rebuffed, Wolf, by the refusal to turn over those documents, the decision to invoke his fifth amendment privileges.

Those members are now actually pushing forward, almost redoubling their efforts, issuing two new subpoenas. And these are different subpoenas than the initial one. They are targeting specifically, they are tailored specifically towards two of Michael Flynn's companies.

Their argument, according to a source familiar with the committee, is that the business records are not under the umbrella of the fifth amendment privilege, unlike the personal records that were initially subpoenaed. So, the committee is essentially ramping up their efforts.

And it's not just in the Senate, Wolf. It's also in the House. The House Intelligence Committee had made a similar request for documents. They had been turned down, according to committee members. They will now be issuing subpoenas in the near term, as well.

And the big question becomes if Michael Flynn's, if Michael Flynn's lawyers continue to reject the opportunity to turn over those documents, what happens next?

Committee members have been very clear. All options are on the table, Wolf. And that also meanings, potentially, if it gets to that point, pursuing contempt of Congress.

BLITZER: Serious developments.

Phil Mattingly, Shimon Prokupecz, guys, thanks very much.

The former national security adviser Michael Flynn, by the way, is also refusing to cooperate with the Senate Intelligence Committee's investigation.

Senator Jack Reed is here with us. He's a Rhode Island Democrat. He's a member of the Intelligence Committee.

Senator, thanks very much for joining us.

SEN. JACK REED (D), RHODE ISLAND, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: So, what exactly are you looking for from Michael Flynn?

REED: Well, the requests were for documents related to his dealings, any dealings, with Russia, anything that would be relevant to the issues that's been raised by the intelligence community of contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russian government and Russian intelligence services.

BLITZER: He's refusing to testify, unless he's granted immunity.

REED: He has refused to testify unless he's granted immunity.

BLITZER: Any chance he'll be granted immunity?

REED: I do not think so, no. Particularly after rejecting the request for records.

He's made a claim under the fifth amendment that it would be -- could be incriminating. That's his right as a citizen.

But it's not clear, records alone, are -- they're not testimonial. That claim we're still not accepting.

But what we've done, in the leadership of Senator Burr and Senator Warner, is issued another request for documents from companies that he organized who are not individuals. And should those records should be available.

BLITZER: Do you expect to get those documents?

REED: We hope we do. We're --

BLITZER: Are his lawyers saying those are subject to his fifth amendment privilege as well?

REED: They very well might. I'm not aware we've received a response yet. But our position would be, and there is case law to support this, that the fifth amendment right adheres to a person's self- incrimination, not to a company's and documents that the company has.

BLITZER: So, you think you'll get those documents?

REED: I think that they will probably try to delay and, perhaps, make the same argument about the fifth amendment, although we don't think it holds water.

BLITZER: As you know, Paul Manafort, who was the Trump campaign chairman, he turned over 300 pages of documents to the committee. Have you seen those pages? Do you know what you're looking for in those documents?

REED: Again, I can't comment on the specifics. But, in general, we're looking for any indication of contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia or any other foreign powers.

[13:10:00] That's because of the conclusions that our intelligence community made public in January that there was very clear evidence that there was a deliberate attempt by the Russian government, ordered by Putin, to engage in our elections, to take steps to actually be disruptive of our electoral process.

BLITZER: We heard on CNN on Anderson Cooper's show last night that a friend of the fired FBI Director James Comey says the president should be scared by the prospects of Comey's testimony that he's about to deliver before your committee after Memorial Day.

Is there a date yet when that will take place?

REED: There has been a discussion of dates. That's not, I think, absolutely firm yet. But there's been a commitment to have the hearing, have it open, ask questions and I think director Comey will be very forthcoming. BLITZER: Well, what do you expect to hear from him?

REED: Well, I think he it will indicate his position with respect to the comments and discussions he's had with the president or had with the president. I think he will be -- not try to interfere with the ongoing investigation.

But he will make it clear (INAUDIBLE) the things that he has personal knowledge of what he knows and what he thinks about those suggestions.

BLITZER: Do you think he'll make available the contemporaneous memoranda that he wrote following his conversations, his meetings with President Trump?

REED: I would hope so but that's not nothing that I can confirm, at this moment.

BLITZER: Because you've seen all the reports.

REED: Yes.

BLITZER: That the president tried to dissuade him from going forward supposedly with the entire investigation.

REED: I would think. But, again, this is just thinking forward, is that if he has such a document, that would add credence to his testimony. And given his training as a lawyer and his professional skills, he would want to document, not just verbally but in writing, they have such documents.

But that's something that he'll have to make a judgment.

BLITZER: The Senate Democrats, including you, have written to the White House, asking for more cooperation in the entire investigation. Tell us about that. What's the point? Are you not getting full cooperation from the White House right now?

REED: Well, it's cooperation through a number of agencies. There are financial records which the Treasury Department holds, in terms of transfers of money. There is information that the FBI has, information that our intelligence services has.

And we would -- we just wanted to request any cooperation that's possible. I think that's a thoughtful and appropriate message to the White House that we want cooperation.

BLITZER: So, you're waiting for the reply to that.

REED: Yes.

BLITZER: Very quickly while I have you. The Manchester terror attack earlier in the week. It now looks like it was a much more sophisticated operation. What's the latest you're hearing? You're on the Intelligence Committee.

REED: Well, I'm hearing mostly, as you are, from public sources, not from the intelligence sources that it had seem sophisticated because of the nature of the device and what they know about the suspect, in terms of his ability to build it.

Also, the planning to go there. Apparently, he left from London to go to Manchester. The targeting of an audience that was predominantly made up of young woman because of the appeal of the singer. And all those things suggest a degree of planning sophistication that was not just off the cuff or random or a target of opportunity.

BLITZER: We now nope that this terrorist who blew himself up was in Libya just days before coming back to Manchester and then blowing himself up, killing and injuring all of these people.

Yesterday, I spoke to Congressman Mike McCaul. He's the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee. He wasn't sure if this was Al Qaeda or ISIS or maybe some other terror group. What are you hearing?

REED: Again, I don't think there's been any attribution. ISIS has claimed it but it reflectively claims any type of incident like this as they're doing. I don't think anyone has made a determination yet. It's early.

I know the intelligence services, both in the United States and Great Britain, are cooperating very closely together, particularly on the activities of individuals in Libya or elsewhere. They're trying to reconstruct a picture and also the British, particularly, are trying to disrupt any type of associates or accomplices he may have in Great Britain.

BLITZER: There's others that have been arrested.

Here's the question though. Was he simply inspired by a terror organization like ISIS or Al Qaeda or was he actually organized? Was it part of a much more formal organized terror plot?

REED: Well, that's the question, I think, that the law enforcement intelligence services are trying to get to the bottom. There are situations, as you point out, where there's an individual who self- radicalizes through the Internet, then does something without any cooperation or anything else.

And then, there's a possibility, which is much more sinister, that there was a network of people. He was provided aid. He was provided training. He was provided instructions. That's more detrimental and more dangerous to us.

BLITZER: Yes, and the British government has now gone on the highest state of alert, fearing that another terror attack could be imminent which related to what happened in Manchester.

Senator Reed, thanks for joining us.

[17:15:00] REED: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Jack Reed of Rhode Island. Coming up, one of the U.K.'s top security officials slamming U.S. leaks on the investigation into the Manchester attack. We have new details.

Plus, up on Capitol Hill, senators have been working behind closed doors quietly writing their own version of the health care bill to repeal and replace Obamacare. Republican Senator John Barroso is in -- on a working group currently drafting the bill. He's here. You're looking at live pictures of him. We'll discuss that and a whole lot more.

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BLITZER: The Senate Intelligence Committee says ousted National Security Adviser Michael Flynn could be held in contempt of Congress. Committee leaders say they'll consider that option if Flynn refuses to comply with the latest subpoenas. Republican Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming is joining us. He's a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, part of the Senate GOP leadership as well.

Senator, thanks for joining us.

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R), WYOMING: Thanks for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: Do you support the Intelligence Committee's investigation, the way it's moving forward under Senator Burr and Senator Warner?

BARRASSO: I really do, Wolf. People -- not just the 100 senators, but the entire population of our country wants to know what happened with the Russians, with the election, and the committee is doing an excellent job. But also I think this special counsel to look into this, General Mueller, who had been the head of the FBI, he is the right person to do that. So I'm comforted by the fact that this bipartisan select committee is there, as well as former FBI Director Mueller.

[13:20:10] BLITZER: So you disagree with the president who calls it a witch hunt, a hoax, a charade? You think this is a serious issue that's got to be resolved?

BARRASSO: It has to be resolved. The American people want answers. One hundred senators want to make sure that our country stays safe and secure and strong. We're committed to getting to the bottom of this, finding the answers.

BLITZER: And you accept the conclusion of the U.S. intelligence community and the FBI that Russia directly interfered in the election, even though we don't know what the impact was, that it was Russia that was responsible?

BARRASSO: I absolutely believe that. I am convinced of that. And it's not just the U.S. election where they interfered. They were doing that around the world. We saw that and see it in Germany, I believe it in Britain, as well as in France. They are trying to undermine democracies worldwide. BLITZER: All right, let's get to some other issues. I know you're

working on the Senate version of health care reform, repealing and replacing Obamacare.

BARRASSO: Yes.

BLITZER: I want you to listen to one of your colleagues, Bob Corker --

BARRASSO: Sure.

BLITZER: Republican, said of this process of drafting a Senate version as opposed to what the House passed. He says this, quote, "it's a very awkward process. At best, there are no experts. There's no actuarials. To me, I'd rather have the input as we move along than a bill produced and all of a sudden it's the product and everybody opines." How do you respond to that?

BARRASSO: Well, Bob was in a couple of the meetings with us yesterday, including with an actuary, with people that work with the insurance industry to say, how can we lower premiums.

But let's take a step back as to why we have to do this. Obamacare is collapsing. Premiums have exploded. A report just came out last night that the Obama administration never wanted the public to see. And it's a fact that the first four years under Obamacare premiums around the country have doubled.

BLITZER: So why not -- why not fix it instead of repealing it?

BARRASSO: Well, the question is, you can call it what you will, but it's the Obamacare rules and regulations that have caused this explosion of the premiums, that they have doubled across the country in four years.

BLITZER: Because if you eliminate the word "repeal," you'll get Democrats who will work with you to try to make it better, to improve it, and make health care for Americans better.

BARRASSO: As a doctor, I'm concerned about health care for Americans. And I'm concerned about finding ways to lower the premiums, to protect people with pre-existing conditions, but also to deal with these people that are stuck under the collapse of the Obama health care plan. In my home state of Wyoming, prices have doubled. There are a number of places where you have no choices, no one is selling on the Obamacare exchanges. So you have to say, what can we do for those people now.

BLITZER: The Congressional Budget Office, as you know later today, is going to release its report estimating what -- what you're -- what passed in the House of Representatives, the Republican version, what that's going to cost the American public, how many people will be affected, how many people will lose health insurance. What are you bracing for?

BARRASSO: Well, I want to see what they have to say. But we know that when it came to Obamacare, they were terribly wrong in the past. They said by now there would be over 22 million people signed up for Obamacare. That's less than half of that, only 10 million have signed up. They also said, with the individual mandate, people would go and buy Obamacare insurance. We know that over 20 million chose to ignore the individual mandate, either over 8 million actually paid the fine and another 12 or so million just got -- got a deferral and said, OK, we don't have to pay the fine. So they've been wrong before. But I want to see exactly what happens.

What I do know is that prices have skyrocketed. People are afraid of what has happened to them already. That's what I heard about last weekend in Wyoming is, why am I paying double for insurance that's not right for me? Why can't I buy what's right for me rather than what Washington says I have to have.

BLITZER: All right. We'll see what the CBO score, as they call it, what it actually shows.

BARRASSO: Sure.

BLITZER: This is the revised version based on the legislation that was actually passed in the House and now you're considering in the Senate.

BARRASSO: Yes.

BLITZER: I want you to listen on another sensitive subject, the president's new budget that was revealed this week.

BARRASSO: Sure.

BLITZER: This is Senator John McCain --

BARRASSO: OK.

BLITZER: You're Republican friend and colleague, on "Late Night with Seth Meyers."

BARRASSO: All right.

BLITZER: Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SETH MEYERS, "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS": It says it makes massive cuts in things like Medicaid and food stamps and our -- Americans who, you know, have less are --

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It's dead on arrival, OK.

MEYERS: This -- this budget.

MCCAIN: Yes.

MEYERS: Yes. Because I think we do forget that ultimately the president can only turn in a budget and you have to vote on it. So it's dead on arrival. MCCAIN: But we do need a budget. And as much as we like to talk about the president, Congress takes us to the edge of the cliff of the next -- of a shutdown of the government, Grand Canyon National Park, one of the great -- could be shut down because we can't get our act together and get -- pass these appropriations bills to make the government function.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Do you agree with Senator McCain, that the president's budget proposal is dead on arrival?

[13:24:57] BARRASSO: Well, it's just a proposal. It's a recommendation. It points to a direction. The things I like about it is that there's more money for the military. It doesn't cut our veterans. It doesn't cut homeland security. But it does focus on some of the domestic programs that are expensive. And we are at a point now where we are addicted to spending in this -- in the United States. It's not that we're taxed too little, it's that we spend too much. What I wish it really would do is look at the major entitlements that spend almost half the money in the country, Medicare and Social Security, and the interest on the debt.

BLITZER: Well, the president -- as you know, the president, during the campaign --

BARRASSO: I know this.

BLITZER: Repeatedly promised, as a candidate, there would be no cuts to Social Security, no cuts to Medicare, no cuts to Medicaid. His proposal doesn't have any cuts for Social Security or Medicare, but it dos have hundreds of billions of dollars of cuts in Medicaid. Are you with him on that?

BARRASSO: Well, we need to reform all of these programs. Those are the things that are significantly contributing to the -- to the debt and the -- and the financial path that we're on. As we spend more and more money on those programs, there's less for education, there's less for roads and infrastructure, there's less for all sorts of things around the country. And, look, we're both baby boomers. Ten thousand baby boomers are turning 65 today. Every time you put someone else on Medicare, which is a wonderfully successful program, and Social Security without actually reforming these programs, that means there's less money for other things out there, which are important.

BLITZER: Well, as a candidate he said no cuts to those entitlement programs.

BARRASSO: He did.

BLITZER: Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. He is proposing, what Senator McCain says, it's dead on arrival, his new budget. You agree it is dead on arrival, right?

BARRASSO: Well, every president's budget that comes to Congress is just a recommendation. I think President Obama's budget never -- Democrats wouldn't even vote for it. We're going to rework and propose our own budget and deal with all the issues that are ahead of us at a time of huge debt.

What we need is the economic growth. You need -- you can't necessarily cut your way through this.

BLITZER: Right.

BARRASSO: You have to grow your way. And his proposal, 3 percent economic growth, I mean that's what we lived with here for decades until the Obama administration's time where economic growth has really been very tepid. That cannot be the new normal for our country.

BLITZER: Well, you'll remember the collapse of the economy happened during the Bush -- at the tail end of the Bush administration, when the great recession occurred. So he inherited, as you remember, the -- President Obama, an awful, awful economy.

BARRASSO: And it was very tepid growth after that time.

BLITZER: Eight -- 900,000 jobs a month were being lost when he took office.

BARRASSO: We need better. We now need to get rid of a lot of the regulations that have really put a handcuff on the economy.

BLITZER: Well, he'd like to see that. Let's see what happens.

BARRASSO: Me too.

BLITZER: Senator Barrasso, as usual, thanks for coming on.

BARRASSO: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: Coming up, one of the U.K.'s top security officials says she scolded the U.S. over the leaks in the Manchester, England, terror attack. And President Trump restart his search for a new FBI director. We're going to tell you why.

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