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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Fierce Fallout From Trump's Decision To Exit Climate Deal; EPA Chief: Exiting Paris Deal Does Not Mean Disengagement; Philippines Police: Attack Is Not Terror Related; Brexit, Immigration, Economy All Concerns For Voters; Salman Abedi's Cousins Speak to CNN; Black Eyed Peas on Manchester Tribute Concert; Lebanon Bans "Wonder Woman". Aired 3-4p ET
Aired June 2, 2017 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live at CNN London. Thanks for being with us on this Friday. This is THE WORLD
It is hard to get almost every country in the world to agree on something, anything, but there's nearly universal condemnation today of Donald Trump's
decision to withdraw his country, the United States, from a landmark climate accord.
The White House is defending itself from all the backlash and insist it has nothing to apologize for. Spokesperson, Sean Spicer, addressed reporters a
short time ago along with the head of the Environmental Protection Agency, Scott Pruitt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT PRUITT, EPA ADMINISTRATOR: The president made a very courageous decision yesterday in behalf of America. He put America's interest first
with respect to environmental agreements in international discussions. I really appreciate his fortitude. I really appreciate his leadership in
The discussion over the last several weeks has been one of a thoughtful deliberation. He heard many voices, voices across a wide spectrum of
vantage points and the president made a very informed and I think thoughtful and important decision for the country's benefit.
SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: At the end of the day, the president's number one priority is to get the best deal for the American
people. This is who they elected last year. This was -- I think one of the things that we got to remember is that the president was very clear on
the campaign trail about his position on this, but he's also clearly is going to negotiate the best deal for the American people.
And if you look at all of the deals that we have, whether the trade deals or Paris, the president has made it very clear that he is committed to
getting the best deal for America, America's workers, America's manufacturers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, that was Sean Spicer and Scott Pruitt, the head of the EPA. What we did not hear at that news conference is also important, the White
House yet again is refusing to answer a very simple question at the heart of the matter, does Mr. Trump believe in climate change or not?
CNN political producer, Dan Merica, is live at the White House. So Scott Pruitt was asked this question, I don't know if you've counted the number
of times, but I could count at least five times that he was asked, does the president believe in climate change, and does he believe it is hurting the
DAN MERICA, CNN POLITICAL PRODUCER: You know, frankly, White House officials have been asked dozens of times here at the White House, on TV,
at different locations, whether the president just believes in climate change, yes or no, and they won't say.
And up here just a few minutes ago, Sean Spicer basically said that he was focused on jobs for the American people and believe the Paris climate
agreement was not a good deal.
But Sean Spicer also said that he hadn't really even talked to the president about his personal views on climate change. Now that stance is a
stark contrast with how upfront the president was during the campaign before when he was just a businessman about his views on climate change.
Regularly tweeting and interviews saying it's a hoax -- one time saying it's a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese and throughout the campaign saying
that he didn't think we should be spending money on U.N. programs that fight climate change.
So while the president is making this huge sweeping announcement that as you mentioned a number of foreign governments have almost all decried.
They don't want to talk about what the president's personal view is because in the view of the White House, this is about a bad deal for the American
people and for jobs.
GORANI: And he's not being criticized the Donald Trump only by foreign governments but by the governors and the mayors, and also CEOs in his own
country in the United States, 30 mayors at least, several governors, all saying they will abide by the guidelines set out in the Paris Accord.
What's been the White House reaction to that?
MERICA: The White House reaction is basically they can do whatever they want. They know that the president has a lot more power than a few mayors
and some governors because he controls the entire form of government. He can dictate what standards they apply to a whole wide array of government
programs and policies.
But while he may be getting criticism from Democrats and some mayors, and business leaders, this was a decision he made really to make good on a
promise to his base voters.
[15:05:05]This is a president who is facing historically low approval rating numbers, and who realized I think at this time that he had to --
that he had to play to his base. He had to play with the nationalism that got him elected, and that's what you saw yesterday in the Rose Garden.
The rhetoric that he used was purely out of his campaign playbook and you saw him talk about how he was elected to represent Ohio, Michigan,
Pennsylvania, not Paris, that's what got him elected.
GORANI: But Dan, he went against the advice and the wishes of some of his closest --
GORANI: -- I mean, in fact, his own daughter is reported to have advised her father to stay in the Paris Accord. Rex Tillerson, his secretary of
state, the former head of ExxonMobil also was reportedly in favor of staying in. So is this more sort of influence potentially coming from
Steve Bannon, formerly of Breitbart News, one of his top advisers, who we know was against staying in the agreement?
MERICA: Yes, it certainly a win for Steve Bannon. I mean, it was pretty clear yesterday, he was walking around the Rose Garden smiling and talking
to different aides and not there or not seen was Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner. That was all you need to really see.
This was clearly a win for Steve Bannon, but what I will say is that this is not -- it's not -- it's a fluid situation, you know, just because he won
yesterday, it doesn't mean -- it means he's permanently on a rise and Ivanka Trump is permanently in a deep climb.
That's just not the case in this White House. You know, the paper parlor game here in Washington is who's up, who's down in this White House, and I
can tell you, as somebody who's been covering this White House since day one, it's not at all cemented. It's very fluid and I guarantee you in the
next week, Ivanka maybe rising and Bannon maybe falling.
GORANI: Right. And we'll have Comey testifying and the news cycle will move on. Thanks very much, Dan Merica at the White House. We appreciate
My next guest says President Trump's decision to pull out of the Paris agreement is, quote, "a disaster for the U.S. and the planet." Former
Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd joins me now live from New York.
So I told our viewers essentially what your reaction was. Could you expand on that? Why use the word disaster in this case, Mr. Rudd?
KEVIN RUDD, FORMER AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: Two levels, the first is the United States represents 15 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions.
You pull that out of the global pile that means we can't deliver an effective global solution. It's the second largest polluter on the planet.
And the second reason is this, when you start fragmenting a very difficult consensus achieved in Paris, we do not know what its consequences will be
in terms of others deciding where they can either sit on their hands and do nothing or formally leave the Paris Convention or the Paris agreement. As
in fact (inaudible) the United States will do. That's why I've chosen those words.
GORANI: Well, there is the argument and I've seen this laid out that with the United States leaving, for instance, because it is the largest economy
in the world, the second largest polluter, but certainly largest polluter by capita by far, that if it had not for instance followed these voluntary
guidelines and there had been no repercussions, other countries might see that, you know, as potentially an open door to do the same.
But with the U.S. leaving, you have sort of a tighter alliance of big polluters who might actually stick to some of these guidelines. I mean, I
know that it -- I mean, this is sort of looking at it in a positive way from some people. Do you agree on any level with that?
RUDD: You must have had a very cherry breakfast cereal over there in London that's all I can say but good on you. I think that's absolute non-
sense and the reason I think it's non-sense is I've been in these negotiations before, I represented Australia at Copenhagen. It is about
achieving a common baseline agreement which we then act as global peers looking at each other with global monitoring called measurement,
verification and reporting on what we do as opposed to what we just say.
And if you have someone who just walks out of the system altogether particularly a country which is a co-designer of the system at what
happened in Paris then the credibility of it begins to fracture. That's why I think that argument is non-sense --
GORANI: But China has said we are sticking to it and China is the largest polluter. They said it -- they reaffirm this -- with the E.U., they said
we will not walk away from this.
RUDD: Well, I'd say in response to that God bless the Chinese, God bless the French, and God bless the Germans because we've seen I think clear
statements of leadership and as for Macron's statement, which is let's make the planet great again, I think he's actually captured the global feeling
at the moment.
Because why this is not just an American decision is that the planet by definition goes beyond any national boundaries. So I think the hope of the
western side lies somewhere between Macron and Merkel if she's re-elected and the hope of the eastern side lies with China. But we do hope with this
other huge polluter, the United States, see sense and comes back into the system before it's too late.
GORANI: And you mentioned Emmanuel Macron, the newly elected president of France, this is what he had to say after Donald Trump made that
announcement in the Rose Garden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[15:10:05]EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): I do respect his decision, but I do think it is an actual mistake both for the
U.S. and for our planet. We all share the same responsibility, make our planet great again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And Kevin Rudd, one of the interesting things that Macron did during the campaign is he invited American scientists to come work in
France on climate change. It's kind of interesting. What do you make of this new president positioning himself globally in a way that making
headlines and making waves already?
RUDD: Well, I might be proven to be wrong by events in the future, but I'm a big Macron supporter after a few weeks. What the world needs now is a
clarity of moral statement about how scientific purpose here on the business of climate change and he's providing that I think with superb
Secondly, though, and this is the responsibility of Macron and the others is that the world will be watching on delivery, not just rhetoric and that
is whether each of the member states is bringing down their global greenhouse emissions.
Here in the United States, though, Hala, I think the burden now flows to frankly those outside of Washington. You've heard it said before, but it's
doubly important now, the state government, and the municipal governments.
But here's the rub, the big private corporations including the energy corporations pressured by institutional investors, shareholders to say
whatever the laws of the United States might be. We expect you as responsible corporate citizens to act on climate change with an effective
carbon price in your calculations.
GORANI: And this is one of the, I guess, for climate change -- you know, for those who support action on climate change, the benefits of
globalization. If you have shareholders in other parts of the world of big American corporations then they'll pressure obviously those corporations to
But I guess, one of the ways to look at it too is, look, this was a non- binding agreement. The guidelines were voluntary. The outlook is decades away. This is not a permanent withdrawal. Donald Trump will not be
president of the United States forever. Is it such a catastrophe today?
RUDD: Well, firstly, let's go to the definitions. In terms of non-binding agreements, welcome to the world of international law. It's never been
binding and this one starting with the U.N. Convention on Climate Change back in 1992, signed and ratified by George Bush Sr. of the Republican
body, is part of the fabric of international law, and how does it work?
We act together as nation states based solemnly on the commitments that we've made and we are subject to scrutiny in terms of the production of
reports as to whether we are doing or whether we are not. And overtime, it works.
But the key thing here is also -- and I don't know if those in the White House fully get this particularly those in the national security side of
the equation is that by decisions such as this chip by chip, bit by bit, the global moral authority of U.S. leadership starts to crack whether it's
on trade, climate, and I'm not sure with all of the bits can be easily put back together in four years' time.
GORANI: All right, and we'll see who if anyone fills that vacuum if it indeed emerges. Thanks very much, Kevin Rudd, the former prime minister of
Australia. Thank you for joining us.
All right, we'll have a lot more, of course, on the U.S.' decision to exit this Paris Accord. Later, we have many guests to comment on it.
But now let's turn our attention to that story that we covered pretty intensively for about an hour yesterday. You might remember, and that was
what happened in Manila, in the Philippines.
So ISIS today is claiming responsibility for Thursday's deadly attack on a casino and hotel complex in the Philippines' capital. However, police
continued to deny that what happened is linked in any ways to terrorist. Could it be ISIS desperate to claim responsibility for something it had
nothing to do with?
Well, to be honest, we've covered enough of these attacks and the M.O. in this case looks like nothing we've seen in the past that would make sense
that what the police is saying is in fact accurate.
Now instead what authorities are saying is that the death of 37 people in that hotel resulted from a botched robbery. Alexandra Field reports now on
how the attack unfolded -- Alexandra.
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dozens were injured in a mad rush to escape from a casino under attack. By the time
smoke clears inside the Resorts World Manila Casino in the Philippines' capital city, workers and guests are found dead.
STEPHEN RELLY, CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, RESORTS WORLD: We are mourning with the families of those affected by this tragedy.
FIELD: Police later discovered the gunman burned beyond recognition. Authorities say he lit himself on fire and shot himself.
[15:15:01]He entered around midnight, they say, armed with gasoline, a machine gun, and a pistol, getting passed the security guard at the door
then shooting up gaming machines and setting tables on fire. The victims suffocated police say. They were not shot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There were shots when I got to the ground floor. I hid in the washer room.
FIELD: SWAT teams scrambled to the Manila casino in the early morning hours amid reports of a possible terror attack. Investigators now say
robbery may have been the motive.
RONALD DELA ROSA, POLICE CHIEF: As far as the police is concerned, we cannot declare that this is a terror-related act.
FIELD: The chaos in the capital unfolded days after ISIS raised its black flag over Mindanao, a southern Philippine island now under Martial Law with
ISIS-linked militants still locked in conflict with government security forces.
(on camera): Police in Manila now say they are reviewing security procedures for hotels, shopping malls, and casinos. We know that the
international airport just a mile away from that casino did go into lockdown mode overnight. Additional police checkpoints sprang up around
the city as the chaos unfolded. In Hongkong, Alexandra Field, CNN.
GORANI: Well, so I mentioned that initial confusion in the beginning over what happened and who was responsible for this deadly incident, was it a
botched robbery? Was it something else? Ivan Watson joins us with more on that -- Ivan.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hala, the Philippines authorities are dismissing claims coming from a number of ISIS outlets
claims that a deadly attack on a casino in Manila that led to the deaths of at least 37 people were the work of an ISIS affiliated militant.
The Philippines authorities were saying that simply not true and they are claiming that this was some kind of a robbery saying that the lone gunman
did not shoot at his victims. He set fire to gambling tables using fuel and that all of the victims were the victims of smoke inhalation.
Also saying that it appeared at one point that he was trying to make off with millions of dollars' worth of casino gambling chips. Regardless, it
comes against a broader context of uncertainty in the Philippines after ISIS-linked militants launched an attack on the southern island of Mindanao
gaining control for some time over the city of Marawi and forcing the Philippines government to declare Martial Law on the island and carry out
airstrikes to try to push them away.
Now the threat of jihadi violence that is a concern that's being discussed here in Singapore at this Asian Security Summit. It was invoked among many
other concerns by the Australian Prime Minister Malcom Turnbull.
In opening statements, he says he's concerned that as ISIS territory shrinks in the Middle East, that battle hardened militants with training
could return here to Southeast Asia and pose a threat to societies here in the region -- Hala.
GORANI: Ivan Watson, thanks very much.
A lot more to come this evening. Six days to go and the race tightening, might not be the best news for Theresa May at this stage. We are live
across the U.K. as the country looks forward to next week's big vote.
GORANI: Strong and stable, they are the words Theresa May touted as polls a few weeks ago showed her way ahead of Labour's Jeremy Corbyn, and I mean,
way ahead. But here's the thing, with just six days to go, nothing look certain anymore, as polls show the race tightening considerably.
May faced more pressure earlier denying that Jeremy Corbyn's claim that she was subservient to President Trump over the climate change deal. After all
she didn't sign a letter opposing the U.S. move that was signed by France, Germany, and Italy.
CNN is covering this election from across the U.K. Let's go live to Elgin in the north of Scotland. CNN Nic Robertson is there. And by the way,
Scottish politicians could be playing quite a significant role come polling day and the polls are tightening at this stage.
Is this a concern for them? Because Theresa May went in with a huge majority in the polls, and now according to some, she's only 3 percentage
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, a lot of people scratching their heads asking themselves, you know, how could this happen,
why did this happen? And part of it that message you said at the beginning, strong and stable, it was the same message the conservative used
in the election 2015, it didn't resonate so well.
She came into the election thinking that Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the opposition was weak, that was an assumption. She hasn't wanted to go in
for TV debates that hasn't gone well for Jeremy Corbyn has looked better and sounded stronger.
She has been criticized for previous U-turn, U-turn over on national insurance for self-employed people, criticisms over the so-called sort of
dementia taxes, social services, possible payment by the elderly when they get older, all these sorts of things have come together.
The strong and stable message hasn't resonated because the country has been a terror attack. Jeremy Corbyn criticizing the prime minister as you say
over association with Donald Trump didn't just begin following his pullout of the Paris climate agreement.
He's been criticizing her on the basis of security and tying Britain's security to the United States. So there's been a lot of things eating away
and eroding. The party even tried to soften their image and that didn't work either.
GORANI: But what needs to be done for the Tory's here? They went into this whole adventure, this whole surprise election that Theresa May called
even though she'd promised many, many times that she wouldn't this year. So clearly they need to change something with six days to go.
ROBERTSON: Well, I suspect the rules they're hearing from people hold your nerve, don't always trust the polls. The polls were wrong going into the
Brexit vote. They were wrong going into general election. Last time that things maybe better.
But you know, it's very tough to change a narrative at this point and part of it has come down to the way that people view Theresa May, and you know,
that is something you just not going to turn around.
They tried to turn it around and it hasn't happened, but the narrative that is picking up now from the Labour Party and up here in Scotland as well,
the Scottish National Party, 56 seats or 54 seats now at Westminster could be a real force in the -- you know, in a new parliament.
And Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the opposition, Scottish National Party Leader Nicola Sturgeon have both indicated that they could cooperate to
form a minority government if there is a hung parliament.
I asked the leader of the Scottish Conservative Party today what she thought about that (inaudible). This is what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUTH DAVISON, SCOTTISH CONSERVATIVE LEADER: She's got a Labour Party that says (inaudible) for the United Kingdom, but is saying that, you know, they
are listening to and Jeremy Corbyn says he's open minded about second independence referendum. You got one of his key (inaudible) saying that
she wants to do a deal and use the SMP to prop them up in government.
It's a sort of chaos that I think people across Scotland don't want to see. I think as the Scottish Conservatives has a very clear message for us to
say we will do no deals with the SMP. They want to rip the U.K. apart. They want to disrespect the result that we had as a country and we won't
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: So Scotland is coming into a play in the elections that perhaps nobody really anticipated and the sense here is you got a choice of two --
you know, two uncertainties, the uncertainty of voting for a party that supports Brexit or the uncertainty of voting for a party that supports
independence, both outcomes are uncertain. As you can imaging that's not a good proposition for businesses all across Scotland.
GORANI: Certainty is in short of supply. It has to be said in the U.K. since Brexit. Thanks, Nic Robertson, up in Scotland.
[15:25:05]And all this week, Richard Quest has been touring parts of the United Kingdom. He's looking at opinion ahead of the crucial vote and
today he's on the final part of that tour in Windsor, which is right next door to Theresa May's constituency. You have some of the leaders there
with you I see.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": We have them all here actually. Everything from the Greens to UKIP, to (inaudible) to Nicola
Sturgeon where of course, Nic Robertson was talking about and (inaudible) and Jeremy Corbyn, and Theresa May.
We brought them all to Windsor as we wrap up this Brexit week from Cardiv (ph) to Windsor. The one thing I've learned is that the British people
I've spoken to, A, may believe this election is not necessary, B, having been to the polls, this will be the third time in two years, they've had
enough of it all, and C, they somewhat recent the way in which an election was called for opportunistic reasons.
But even if they don't think Jeremy Corbyn is that strong a leader, they are not entirely certain that Theresa May is the right one either, but this
is -- the real issue here, Hala, is it really -- look, the real issue is that in 11 days after voting, the Brexit negotiations begin.
And what the British people have to decide is who they want pretty much of these two to actually do the negotiations and the reason we are in Windsor,
of course, up there, Hala, Windsor Castle. Let us not forget that is the home of Her Majesty, the Queen, whoever becomes the prime minister, it will
be the queen that invites them to take that role.
GORANI: Now what if -- you've been into Wales, Western (inaudible) and other places. I saw you were at a (inaudible) yesterday and then finally
today in Windsor, what is the main thing you think -- and you know, obviously when we go out into the country and speak to ordinary people, you
always learn so much more than just reading articles and sitting in a studio. So if you had to share with us one important thing that you
learned on this trip, what is it?
QUEST: The one important thing I learned on this trip is that the people, they would not necessarily have changed their minds on Brexit, but they are
not deeply uncertain and they want to certainty. They want this thing to be done and dusted, and the difficulty they've got is which one of these
two is best positioned to actually give the result --
GORANI: What things do they want done and dusted Brexit or this election or both?
QUEST: They want --
GORANI: Because Brexit might not be done and dusted anytime soon?
QUEST: They want security. Right, but they want the security of knowing have they got things like, for example, single market access. What's going
to happen on migration? The very issues that she says she is stable, but he says that he will get a better deal.
This is -- look, we are no different now than we were three weeks ago when the election was called except she's performed badly. He's performed
better and British people are considering basically the level of uncertainty that they hit upon themselves, by the way, with the referendum
GORANI: Right. Well, thanks very much. Exactly, if you want certainty, you vote for the status quo. That's definitely the truth right there.
Thanks very much, Richard Quest. We will see you at the top of the hour on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" in Windsor.
And we'll have much more obviously on this important election race over the next week and next Thursday, we'll have a special show. Richard Quest and
myself will be anchoring that overnight as the results roll in.
Still to come, world leaders promised to fight climate change without the United States. Europe leads the global outcry after President Trump pulls
America out of the Paris Accord. Outrage abroad but how is this move playing for Mr. Trump in the United States. We discuss the politics of
climate change just ahead.
[15:31:40] GORANI: The White House says Donald Trump has nothing to apologize for after he withdrew the United States from the Paris Climate
Accord. Press Secretary Sean Spicer says the President put America's interests first in rejecting the deal signed by nearly every country in the
Police in the Philippines say an attack on a casino and hotel complex in Manila was a robbery and not a terror attack despite a claim from ISIS that
its soldiers carried out the assault. Staff and guests were among the 37 people who died at Resorts World Manila, mainly from smoke inhalation.
Ireland is about to get its youngest Prime Minister. Thirty-eight-year-old Leo Leo Varadkar won the race to become the new leader of the country and
take over from Enda Kenny. Varadkar, I should say, will become Ireland's first openly gay Prime Minister.
Remember back in 2015 when the Paris agreement on climate change was signed. There were scenes, literally, of jubilation at that conference.
Today, a very different picture is emerging, one of a global course of condemnation as President Trump pulls the U.S. out of the pact. Melissa
Bell looks at the fierce criticism he is facing from other world leaders.
MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was the long- awaited sound of a deal, 195 countries had agreed to act together to save the planet.
LAURENT FABIUS, FORMER MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT: I had in front of me the representative of all the world, and
for the first time in history, I was able to strike the gavel. It meant that it was a new step for humanity.
BELL (voice-over): Laurent Fabius presided over the Paris negotiations. He says the deal is now a matter of life or death.
FABIUS: The question is the question of food all over the world. The question of oceans, the question of typhoons, the question of migrations.
You know, there are so many problems with some migration, but if you multiply it by 100, at the end of it, it's peace or war.
BELL (voice-over): At the time of its signing, which brought together more than 190 nations, there had been a sense of disbelief that the deal had
proven possible at all. Many had wondered whether the world was ready for Paris. Now, just 18 months later, the question is how the world could do
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE: Because wherever we live, wherever we are, we all share the same responsibility -- make our planet great
BELL (voice-over): French President Emmanuel Macron expressing France's resolve with a twist on President Trump's campaign slogan. Other world
leaders from China to Germany, also vowing to honor the deal.
The strength of the world's reaction had surprised Laurence Tubiana who led France's negotiations. She says it shows how strong the Paris Agreement
LAURENCE TUBIANA, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN CLIMATE FOUNDATION: That's the future. It's just because that's modernity. And that's what I think the
Trump administration is just missing. They don't understand that the train has left the station. The matter is just, to be out, it's just like that
you look at the train and it's just going and you are not in.
[15:35:01] BELL: That is something, Hala, that's come back over and over again over the course of the last 24 hours. The idea that even in economic
terms, that is those chosen by Donald Trump to defend his decision, there is a question about whether it will not prove more costly in terms of jobs
growth, for instance, than it will beneficial.
And when you add to that the question of America's standing in the world, its leadership position, there are many people wondering whether America's
announcement of its withdrawal might not yet prove to be America's lost. Hala.
GORANI: Melissa Bell, thanks very much. That's the international fallout, the view from France in particular. After all, the man you saw there with
the gavel at that U.N. conference was the former Foreign Minister of France, Laurent Fabius, and he was also in that report.
Now, I want to bring in Larry Sabato. He's the director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. He's live from Charlottesville.
How do you think this Rose Garden moment, Larry, will go down in history?
DR. LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: This is a disaster for the United States, not just for the
world. And it's being viewed that way, Hala.
There have been so many controversial decisions by President Trump since he took office in January, but I have never seen, to this point, a backlash as
intense as we're experiencing right now in the United States.
It's grassroots, it's corporate leaders of all sorts, it's mayors in cities across the United States, and governors in some of our larger states. They
intend to pursue the Paris Agreement without the federal government, which is amazing.
GORANI: But, as you know, you heard the President. He said is hurting American interests. We'll lose jobs because of it. People are laughing at
us. They're taking advantage of us.
This will, essentially, shift wealth from America to other countries in the world who are just laughing at us nonstop. This is what he said in the
SABATO: Yes, well, if they're laughing, President Trump might want to take a look in a mirror. I think that's the major reason why people are
Look, seven out of 10 Americans believe in climate change. They believe it's a serious matter. And almost that many support the Paris agreement.
Now, there are strong opposition, obviously, from right wing Republicans, from some corporate leaders. But most corporate leaders, who, after all,
are almost born Republican, have, in fact, come out and denounced President Trump's decision.
It's stunning to see some of the most heavily Republican corporations move in the opposite direction, including ExxonMobil, the home of his Secretary
of State Rex Tillerson.
GORANI: Yes. What I find interesting is, you mentioned the mayors, you mentioned the governors, you mentioned the big time CEOs opposing this
move, wanting to stay in the Paris Accord. I mean, it's interesting in a way, right, because, I mean, the governor of California, for instance,
Jerry Brown. California on its own, I think, is the world's seventh largest economy.
Are we starting to see an America here, a fragmentation, you know, sort of a shadow parallel government, you know, of states and mayors and other
leaders deciding to go against, you know, the direction in which the federal government is going? I mean, is that fragmentation dangerous,
SABATO: Well, it could be, and you put your finger on something. It's happening. We have almost a federation now, a very unhappy federation, of
red and blue states and localities. They don't agree on much of anything, not just social issues but also many economic ones.
I've had people propose to me that the United States should become a kind of federation or, in essence, apply for a divorce on the grounds of
irreconcilable differences. There's no way to do it legally. We went through this in the 1860s with the Civil War.
SABATO: But it tells you what's underneath this, Hala. There's so much disagreement. At least those who favor the Paris Agreement and who believe
in climate change, we're going to depend on people like Jerry Brown who's just joined forces with Andrew Cuomo, the governor of New York, and the
governor of Washington State.
These three states, containing one-fifth of the U.S. population, have decided to form a pact to put the Paris Agreement into effect without Trump
GORANI: But that's remarkable, isn't it? I mean, New York --
GORANI: -- and California getting together and saying, we are ignoring our President. We're going to go our own way with our own pact. These are
states that form part of the United States of American.
[15:39:55] SABATO: Yes, and you'll see it grow, by the way. Many states with Democratic governors and Democratic legislators will be joining. And
we will also see a major increase, in my view, in the number of Democratic governors in the midterm elections in 2018.
This is going to continue as opposition to President Trump grows. His popularity, of course, is in the 30s. We're going to see more of this,
Hala. It's not good for the United States, but what's the alternative? Are we to go along with decisions that are unpopular?
GORANI: I mean, some would argue he was elected President. And by the way, if the election were held today, he would probably win again. So I
SABATO: I'm not, Hala.
GORANI: -- he's --
GORANI: Go ahead.
SABATO: I'm not sure of that.
SABATO: We're divided, but I think people learned a lesson last fall. Certainly, Democrats and some of the people who supported the Green Party
learned that those sorts of divisions could be devastating.
GORANI: And, Larry, there was an interesting daily news. "New York Daily News" front page, "Trump to the World: Drop Dead." And this, of course, is
kind of a nod to when Gerald Ford denied federal funds to New York City as it was going through a bankruptcy, "Ford to City: Drop Dead." So it's kind
of interesting to see the "New York Daily News" go back in time to the Gerald Ford presidency.
SABATO: Yes. And what happened in 1976? New York City went so heavily against President Ford. He lost New York State in a relatively close vote,
and he lost the presidency.
GORANI: And let's talk a little bit about, also, Comey's testimony, the former FBI Director fired by Donald Trump. We're expecting that on
Thursday, the very day, by the way, that we'll be covering the U.K. election, so that will be interesting to see how that develops.
But anyway, is there a possibility, do you think, for Donald Trump to use what's called executive privilege to block Comey from testifying? Is that
a possibility at all, do you think?
SABATO: It's a small possibility. I don't think even this very unusual administration would try a trick like that because it would automatically
suggest that they're very worried about what the former FBI Director will say and that they believe that it might irreparably damage Trump. So I
don't expect them to do it.
It would be unbelievably foolish if they did because the testimony would leak. Comey would find another form. And also, I don't think it would
hold up in court. Comey's a private citizen now. And Trump himself has tweeted extensively about this very subject, so it's hard to see how
executive privilege would work.
GORANI: Lastly, Rex Tillerson who we mentioned and we've been telling your viewers over the last hours -- he's the former head of ExxonMobil --
reportedly was in favor of staying in the Paris Accord. When asked about Donald Trump's announcement, had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REX TILLERSON, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, it's a policy decision. I think it's important that everyone recognize the United States
has a terrific record on reducing our own greenhouse gas emissions. It's something I think we can be proud of and that was done in the absence of
the Paris Agreement.
I don't think we're going to change our ongoing efforts to reduce those emissions in the future either, so hopefully people can keep it in
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.
SABATO: No, it isn't. He was whistling past the graveyard because he clearly doesn't support the decision no matter what he said. And he
understands that there are people in the administration who are pushing in the other direction -- Steve Bannon in the White House, the Director of the
Environmental Protection Agency. They are climate change deniers, so it's a battle. Rex Tillerson and, let's remember, his successor as CEO of
ExxonMobil, endorsed continuing in the Paris Agreement.
GORANI: Right. Larry Sabato, as always, always a pleasure having you on. Have a great weekend and hope to speak soon.
And join us next week. We'll be staying right across FBI Chief James Comey's testimony. He will be testifying before a Senate committee next
Thursday. And as we've been reporting, he took notes during his meetings with Donald Trump, so we'll see how much of that he shares. There'll be a
closed-door session as well after 1:00 p.m. Eastern time, so we'll be reporting on that.
And check out our Facebook page, facebook.com/halagoranicnn. And there, you can check out some of the content from the program. This is THE WORLD
As Manchester police continue to try and find out about the movements of the bomber, Salman Abedi, his cousins speak to CNN about their horror at
the attack by one of their relatives.
Also, coming together for Manchester. My interview with The Black Eyed Peas. They are here in the U.K. ahead of a benefit concert for the victims
of the attack. We'll be right back.
[15:44:56] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Police say a car they've located could be significant in the investigation into the Manchester Arena bomber, Salman Abedi. The area
around the white Nissan Micra was evacuated while police investigated. They're trying to find out more about Abedi's whereabouts between May 18th
and 22nd, the day of the attack that killed at least 22 people.
Meanwhile, two of Abedi's cousins have spoken to CNN following the horrific attack. Isaac and Abz Forjani were questioned by police for a week
following the attack on the arena. Fred Pleitgen has our story.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Salman Abedi blew himself up outside the Manchester Arena, killing 22
and wounding dozens, he not only took innocent live, he also affected his own family.
CNN spoke to Salman Abedi's first cousins, Isaac and Abz Forjani, who said they were traumatized by the crime he committed.
ISAAC FORJANI, SALMAN ABEDI'S FIRST COUSIN: It took a while to believe, to be honest, when we saw his name. How did it happen? I had to just ask
myself, is this actually really happening?
PLEITGEN (voice-over): As part of the massive police operation in the aftermath of the bombing, Abz and Isaac Forjani were taken into custody two
days after the incident. They were questioned for a week and then released, no charges brought against them.
I. FORJANI: What makes it worse is there's not distance. He's obviously related to us by blood and it makes it a whole lot worse.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Abz and Isaac say they used to see their cousin frequently when they were younger, but that changed in recent years. They
don't whether his personality changed, but they say his mood seemed darker when they last met him several months ago.
ABZ FORJANI, SALMAN ABEDI'S FIRST COUSIN: It felt like he's a bit lonely and maybe a little bit depressed. You know, again, which doesn't mean, you
know, it is -- excuse the thing.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): The two men say they're ashamed of what their cousin and feel sorry for the victims, and they're angry at him for what
A. FORJANI: Just like everyone else, the victims' parents, you know, they all want answers. I want answers even though he's my cousin. And I've
been arrested because of that situation, but I want answers. I want to know. He has misled them all. You know, he's got the idea in his head.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): The same question British authorities are asking as well as they continue their effort to identify and dismantle the network
they believe was behind Salman Abedi's suicide bombing.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, London.
GORANI: Well, this didn't happen long ago, but already, some of the world's biggest music stars are heading to Manchester for a major benefit
concert. Ariana Grande is heading back to Manchester, but also one of the acts is Black Eyed Peas.
I got to speak to them earlier from Cardiff, Wales, where they're performing ahead of the Manchester gig. I asked them what got them
involved in this tribute concert.
[15:49:57] WIL.I.AM, MEMBER, THE BLACK EYED PEAS: Ariana Grande and team reached out to us and asked us if we could lend ourselves to help raise
awareness and funds for the families of the victims, so, you know, they didn't even have to complete the sentence. So we're going to be there to
spread love and remind people that we should not let hate and fear destroy our connection with music.
For so many years, we've bonded around music and melodies and harmonies and messages of love and peace. So we cannot let that, like, break our bond.
GORANI: Obviously, the vast majority from what I've been reading of the families, of the people who were injured or killed, are in favor of it.
But it's happening very close, you know, very soon after, I should say, the attack, a couple of weeks. What message do you want to send by being
WIL.I.AM: So for many years, people say that music is, you know, the universal language because it connects us through our hearts and stories,
that we are not different from those that we, you know, wish to be around, and so we should not let people break apart that bond that connection.
So I'm so happy that it's this close so we could stay close, keep that bond, spread that love, given all the things that, you know, networks cover
on T.V., it's awesome that you're covering love.
GORANI: There's the issue of security. Fifty thousand people are expected to attend this even. Is this something that concerns you?
WIL.I.AM: No, because if it concerns us, we wouldn't show up. You know, and 2001/9/11 happened and on September the 12th, Black Eyed Peas went on
tour. And at the end of that tour, we wrote a song called "Where is the love?"
So like I said, when God calls you to do the job of spreading love, you answer that call and you go, and you will be protected when you're doing
that. And, you know, doubt is always going to come into play but you cannot let doubt destroy your efforts on creating bonds of love.
GORANI: And what are you going to be performing? "Where is the love?" obviously, I'm guessing, will be in the line up?
TABOO, MEMBER, THE BLACK EYED PEAS: Definitely.
TABOO: Definitely. I mean, that song, "Where is the love?" was created after the events of 9/11. And still, to this day, 2017, people ask for it.
You know, people go online and say we need this song, whether things are happening in Paris or in the United States or in Manchester.
That song speaks to the world and it strikes a chord with the world, and we're glad that we're able to perform. It's sad that when something bad
happens, that song has to be theme that we rely on to provide our perspective and our therapy for the people that need it. But we're just
going to out there with an open heart and just spread love.
APL.DE.AP, MEMBER, THE BLACK EYED PEAS: Yes, it's unfortunate, but it's a calling. And, you know, we have our voices, we have the music to spread
the love, so it's our duty to do so.
GORANI: All right. It's about spreading the love. Black Eyed Peas performing on Sunday in Manchester alongside Ariana Grande. Coldplay,
another major celebrity band.
We'll be right back. Stay with us.
[15:54:55] GORANI: "Wonder Woman" opens in North American cinemas this weekend. Its' received glowing reviews so far, but one country has banned
it regardless of how popular it becomes. Oren Liebermann has more on why Lebanon is against "Wonder Woman."
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Israel and Lebanon have been enemies for years, and it seems that extends to the cinemas. Lebanon moved to ban
"Wonder Woman" from theaters because the star of the movie is Israeli actress, Gal Gadot. Gadot served in the Israeli military as a combat
The ban would only affect about 15 theaters in Lebanon. There is a petition to release "Wonder Woman" in Lebanon regardless of Gadot's
starring role. Why? Because of the amazing character of "Wonder Woman," the petition says. The rave reviews can't hurt either.
"Wonder Woman's" history goes back to the rise of feminism in the U.S. When she first appeared in comics in 1940s, she was fighting the Nazis
during the World War II.
This isn't the first time Gadot's movies have started controversy in Lebanon. There was an attempt to ban "Batman versus Superman: Dawn of
Justice" because Gadot had a significant role in the movie, also as Wonder Woman. But the film was eventually shown.
Oren Liebermann, CNN, Jerusalem.
GORANI: All right. With all the problems the region has, you'd think banning a movie would be last on the list but apparently not.
Finally, only the strong survive at the annual Scripps Spelling Bee, and we're talking about kids in elementary and middle school. They are
focused, they're smart, and most of all, they can spell words most adults didn't even know existed.
This year's competition was no exception. Round after round went by until 12-year-old Ananya Vinay of Fresno, California had the chance win it all
with this word.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANANYA VINAY, CHAMPION, SCRIPPS NATIONAL SPELLING BEE: Marocain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, she knows what it means.
VINAY: M-a-r-o-c-a-i-n, marocain.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congratulations, Ananya.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are the champion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Now, I thought marocain just meant Moroccan in French, but apparently it's a dress fabric made of silk or rayon. Ananya wins $40,000
in cash. That's her dad, proud father. She wins a few television appearances and an encyclopedia.
This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. Have a great weekend if it is indeed your weekend.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next from Windsor.