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CONNECT THE WORLD
Breaking News: London Terror Attack. 11:00a-12:00p ET
Aired June 4, 2017 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:42] BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Hello and welcome to CNN's breaking news coverage of the terror attack in London. It happened right here in what is
one of the most fashionable parts of the city. It's the third terror attack in England in less than three months and all just days before this
country picks its new government.
Let me get you bang up to speed on what is our breaking news.
London Metropolitan Police arrested 12 people in connection with Saturday night's attack during raids and searches in the East London neighborhood of
Barking. That is not far from the attack sites.
At least seven people were killed and 48 wounded in the terror attack. It began when three attackers rammed a van into pedestrians on London Bridge.
They then leaped out to launch a stabbing spree in nearby bars and restaurants before being shot dead by police.
In the wake of this latest attack, British Prime Minister Theresa May says enough is enough. She spoke on Downing Street earlier calling for the
nation to unite against Islamist extremism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: While we have made significant progress in recent years, there is, to be frank, far too much tolerance of
extremism in our country. So we need to become far more robust in identifying it and stamping it out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, let's take a closer look now at how the attack unfolded.
ANDERSON: Terror in London, starting with a van careening into crowds of people on the city's iconic London bridge and ending with several stabbings
in a popular restaurant area. It's the third terror attack in the UK in the last three months.
Police say they shot and killed three attackers.
JACK APPLEBEE, EYEWITNESS: About six or seven times we heard gunshots going off down the street. Each time there were three or four, maybe more
gunshots at time. That the first one, we probably heard 10 or 15 gunshots.
ANDERSON: Calls started coming in shortly after 10:00 p.m. local time of people being mowed down by a van on London Bridge.
One eyewitness describes the van speeding, swerving, hitting several people, tossing one person
20 feet in the air.
MARK ROBERTS, EYEWITNESS: Within my line of sight there were five or six bodies that I
could see on the ground of people who were not moving.
ANDERSON: Seconds later, the van crashed near Borough Market, the bar and restaurant area that was packed on a busy Saturday night.
According to police, the suspects got out and started stabbing people.
APPLEBEE: I literally turned around and there were these three men standing there, one of which with a machete, and they had this sort of belt
on. We didn't really -- they just looked at us and I just didn't really know what to do.
ANDERSON: That market area is where police say they shot and killed the three male suspects.
This image from the scene of what could be two of the assailants on the ground.
London's mayor had this message for his city.
SADIQ KHAN, LONDON MAYOR: Londoners will see an increased police presence today and over the course of the next few days. No reason to be alarmed.
I'm reassured that we are one of the safest global cities in the world.
ANDERSON: Well, that was Sadiq Khan, the investigation then moving quickly. Police have arrested, as I said, a number of people in the East
London neighborhood of Barking.
Melissa Bell is there on the scene. Melissa, what are authorities telling you?
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've been speaking to locals really here, Becky. We're just outside the flat where early this
morning between about 7:00 and 8:00 one of these raids took place. Locals five people were arrested from this flat and of course a lot of locals
hanging around trying to get more information about precisely what happened here this morning and what police have learned.
I am joined now, Becky, by Jibril, who is a local and who believed that he recognized one of the men that has - we speak to has been circulating in
the press lying on the ground near London Bridge in the wake of that attack. Tell me a little bit about the man that you believe may have been
the man involved in the attack last night.
JIBRIL PALOMBA, NEIGHBOR: Well, the man I know is - he was a wonderful guy. I would never, never expect him to do such a horrific or horrible
things, especially to his community because he's from London.
[11:05:04] BELL: If it does turn out to be the man in the photograph, this man that you know, what was he like? What - is this the kind of thing you
would imagine him doing?
PALOMBA: No. Never. I always played with him, football, in the park with my kids. He approached my kids, you know, approach my kids. You know, my
kids, they were with him, so I always look at him in a good father way because he did have kids, as well, himself.
BELL: The last time you saw him?
PALOMBA: Three days ago, just around the corner at the park there, and he offered me to come to the swimming pool with him, and I refuse it. And
from there we organized a barbecue, which one I attended for a little while, and there was no strange environment or no strange talking about it.
BELL: But he did leave you with words that surprised you, but perhaps now you question.
PALOMBA: Well, he left me with words like Jibril you need to be faithful and a Muslim, and you will be aware, you know, if you're not faithful and a
Muslim, you're going to be in hell, this kind of stuff, but I would never expect him to do such horrible things, really and truly.
Especially me, myself trusting him with my kids as well around him, you know, playing football and this kind of stuff, so - and a plus going to the
same gym, doing a sparring together, boxing, you know, about seven years boxing, so we have seven years boxing. So, we're training each other. We
were heavy lifting together. So it's a little bit strange.
He's introduced me to the gym, as well, because he told me about it. It's a new gym, a Muslim gym, come here, you know (inaudible). So, I say, OK,
I'd come around and have a little (inaudible).
BELL: Thank you very much, Jibil, for talking to us. Jibril, who believes, then, that he recognized his neighbor, his friend also, from
those photographs that have now been circulated in the press, Becky.
But, of course, you can imagine a great deal of shock here at these raids and at the news that
some of those who lived here may have been involved in last night's attack.
ANDERSON: Melissa Bell is in Barking, more from Melissa as she gets it.
We've got more reporters covering all sides of this story as it continues to unfold.
Our senior international correspondent Clarissa Ward is at number 10 Downing Street. And Isa Soares is standing by at one of the scenes of
Saturday night's violence. Let's start with you, Clarissa. And what has been the government's response to this to date?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, Prime Minister May did not mince words when she came out here just a few hours
ago and said quite simply enough is enough. She described the primary problem in this terrorist attack as being this ideology which she called
the evil ideology of Islamist extremism.
She went on to say that in addition to the three terrorist attacks that have taken place here in the United Kingdom in the last three months, there
have been a further five terrorist plots that were successfully foiled by the government. So it's clear that there is a sense here that there is a
Now, the government has not lifted the terror threat to critical as they did after the Manchester
attack, so far the threat level remains at severe which is obviously still very high, but the thought behind that is that simply the three assailants
who were killed within eight minutes of police arriving on the scene last night that they were the only attackers, that there isn't at least they
don't believe at this stage, a larger network who may be facilitated this attack and nonetheless, when Prime Minister May came out she sort of basically put it down to four
points, four things that need to happen in order to deal with this problem. She talked about how British values need to triumph over this evil ideology
of Islamist extremism, that is of course is easier said than done, Becky.
Secondly, she talked about the need to more successfully patrol the cyberspace because of course Social media is a rampant place for
radicalization, also allowing young people who do become radicalized to meet each other. She talked about the necessity of a
decisive victory in Iraq and Syria, against ISIS, a military victory.
And then finally, and most interestingly, she talked about this idea of dealing with the ideology. She says that britain has been too tolerant for
too long of extremism and that now it's time to reassess or review counterterrorism procedures - Becky.
ANDERSON: Enough is enough, she said. Things need to change, alluding to what you have just explained.
What does she mean by that, practically, do you think?
WARD: Well, that's the million dollar question, isn't it? Because there has been a lot of concern that while we hear this rhetoric about the need
to clamp down on terrorism, we don't hear a lot about increased funding going to police and law enforcement; in fact, rather the reverse. And you
heard Sadiq Khan, the London mayor, talking to our Christiane Amanpour earlier today saying just that. We can't have any more cuts in law
I think, Becky, what she was trying to get at more specifically was the idea of tackling this ideology, but of course, the British government has
been working for quite some time, most famously with its so-called prevent strategy, which aims to sort of isolate or identify, I should say, young
potential extremists in their schools, in their communities, at an early stage and then sort of pull them back from the brink. That prevent
strategy has been very controversial, let's say, with many people in Muslim communities around the United Kingdom feeling that it's invasive, that it's
a form of spying.
So, it's not exactly clear what Prime Minister Theresa May meant when she said that. It's easy in these instances to talk about the need for change
and to talk about the need to review current policy. What appears to be much harder, and it's not limited to the United Kingdom, but across the
western world, and across much of the Middle East, is to find a clear strategy for dealing with this ideology
once and for all - Becky.
ANDERSON: Clarissa Ward is outside Number 10.
Isa is very close to where one of the attacks happened last night. Isa, what do you understand to have happened where you were?
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know at this moment, Becky, that this is still a very large police operation underway, if I move
out of the way. Still cordoned off. But where we have - this is Barrahai Street (ph) and just further on as well there's another cordon. That leads
to the bridge where the man, the men were plowing in that van, plowing into people before they left the van and then started coming into this Hyde
Street, going into these bars, into these restaurants and started knifing people.
We heard from one lady who was here. She was basically saying she was taking cash - money out of a cash point and then she was told to run. She
saw one of the assailants dressed in black. There was panic as people ran down this Hyde Street.
And Becky, yesterday, you know you were here, Saturday was a sunny day in London. People were out. This is a very popular part of London, and you
can just sense the panic that people must have faced when they were told to move.
I've been speaking to people who have slowly started going into their hotels. Behind me you have premiere and we were told they were told to
leave yesterday. And what police have been doing today, they've were escorting them in small groups, taking their statements, of course, because
this is critical because the investigation is still ongoing before taking them
inside to get their belongings.
And throughout the night, many people didn't have anywhere to stay, Becky, but in true London spirit, Londoners have been opening their doors to the
ANDERSON: Well, the area, of course, is still cordoned off as it is here, which is just around the corner from where Isa is.
We are right next to where the attack happened last night. There are countless ambulances, police cars fanning out around this area. It's
normally just full of people hanging out. It's a really cool area, this, buzzing with loads of cafes, restaurants, bars, you name it, all right by
the river Thames.
If you've been to London, you probably been to Borough - it's a massive market - over the weekend, a farmer's market. It's a fantastic area. But
what we see as a fun spot, terrorists see as a soft target.
Tyson Cladokun witnessed some of the horror as the attack unfolded. He's with us now.
You were driving across London Bridge last night. Tell us what happened.
TYSON CLADOKUN, LONDON TERROR ATTACK WITNESS: I was driving along the bridge late last night, so where I saw quite a lot of commotion towards the
pavement. As I drove closer towards the incident, I saw a man lying on the floor. He was cradled by another man and had blood on his chest.
At first it looked like a bicycle accident or motor accident, but as I moved closer towards him I could tell that the blood was concentrated in
his chest area, so it looked like he had been stabbed. I saw another person lying down next to him and they had covered his head with a blanket.
It did look like this guy may have died.
We were stuck there for around 30 minutes or so. We weren't moving. There was a lot of commotion. People were going crazy. The police seemed
relatively calm at the time. It was only subsequently I saw quite a lot of city police and they were chasing people across the bridge. This was normal, civilians, normal pedestrians, over
the bridge and screaming at them to run, run, run for your lives, terror.
At that point, I realized it was a lot more serious than I initially thought, and I thought at a moment I need to get myself out of here. I'm
stuck in my car. I didn't feel safe. And that's when I mounted the pavement with my car and drove in the other direction. And once I did
that, quite a lot of other cars followed me out away from the bridge.
ANDERSON: So, my sense is you couldn't believe what you were going through. You're a Londoner, are you?
CLADOKUN: Yes. Yeah.
ANDERSON: Saturday night in London?
CLADOKUN: Yeah, so I didn't expect that. So, as I was approaching the accident, I just assumed it was the normal motor accident or a cyclist had
been knocked off his bike. It didn't cross my mind that it could be terror related in any way.
[11:15:11] ANDERSON: How does it make you feel as a Londoner?
CLADOKUN: It's scary. It's scary. Because you don't expect to be at risk of being stabbed as you're crossing London bridge. It's completely
unprovoked. It's scary.
ANDERSON: And not the first time, of course, in England. You know, the Westminster attack, the Manchester attack only a couple of weeks ago and
CLADOKUN: Yeah. It's shocking. It doesn't feel safe to be in London at the moment. It's scary, and it's just not somewhere I would want people to
ANDERSON: Right, but you say that and yet I've walked from home to work today, you know, London's on the move again. I walked past the museums. I
walked through the park.
I'm a Londoner, you're a Londoner, you and I know this is not a city under siege today and nor
would we want it to be so, would we?
CLADOKUN: No. I do feel a sense of unity with people. I feel like this has united Londoners and us British people against terrorism. So
regardless of what you believe or where you stand with politics or any kind of faith, I feel like it has united the people against
such a terrible, terrible thing.
ANDERSON: And if you had a message for anybody who was considering one of these disgusting acts, what would it be?
CLADOKUN: I would ask them why? Why do they need to do this? It's -- it's harming innocent people. I don't think there's any rationale for
ANDERSON: Thank you for joining us.
CLADOKUN: Thank you.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
Well, we saw emergency workers -- thank you, mate. We saw emergency workers treating the wounded and the national health service say 21 people
are in critical condition, many have suffered harrowing stab wounds. Thankfully, Tyson was just in his car. He was away from it, but 36 victims
are still in hospital, some of them undergoing hours of surgery.
Well, CNN's Saima Mohsin joins us now from King's College Hospital where I know, Saima, many of those victims were taken and that's a hospital in
South London just a couple of miles away from where we were.
What's the situation there?
SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Becky. They've been taken to hospitals right across London. 14 of those 48 victims were
brought here to King's College Hospital for accidents for emergency. One of them has been discharged overnight. And I've been speaking to the teams
here who describe the scene overnight, how extra medics came in. They didn't need to be called, they just came in because they knew a major
crisis was unfolding, and all hospitals would need those doctors and nurses to come in.
Now, they have told us that six females and eight males have been treated here. Now, they won't tell us the ages of those patients and victims.
They won't tell us what kind of injuries, but we do know, of course, that all of the victims that were taken to hospital had serious or critical
Now, of the 48 that were taken to hoitals across London, 21 of them do remain in those
hospitals across the city with critical injuries. So a very serious situation. It's touch and go for them now.
Overnight, families have been visiting here, some next of kin have yet to be informed, we understand, and of course, because of patient
confidentiality, they are not willing to disclose any more information about those victim. But Becky, you can probably see just over
my left shoulder the police officers there. Now, it's a slightly reduced police presence here, but when we arrived this morning there were five
police vans and right around the perimeter of this hospital alone a lot of police standing on guard - Becky.
ANDERSON: Saima Mohsin is at King's College where some of the victims are these terrible attacks were taken Saturday night.
Well, we are very close to the scene of these attacks. Coming up, the latest on the terror investigation that is now underway in London. We'll
hear from a former chief superintendent with the metropolitan police. Stand by. Back after this.
[11:21:48] ANDERSON: Well, welcome back to our breaking news coverage of the London attack. Police here in the UK have arrested 12 people in
Barking in east London in the wake of Saturday evening's terror attack in London. Seven people dead, nearly 50 wounded after three masked men drove
a van into pedestrians on London Bridge before launching a vicious stabbing spree nearby.
In the last hour, Prime Minister Theresa May visited some of the injured in hospital earlier. She claimed there was too much tolerance of Islamist
extremism in the country, and vowed a clampdown.
After the attacks in Manchester two weeks ago. The terror threat level was raised to critical, the highest level, before being lowered again days
later. That hasn't happened this time so far, at least it's staying at severe.
But earlier Theresa May said it's time for Britain to review its entire counterterrorism strategy. So, where does that leave counterterrorism here
in the UK? I am joined by a Dal Babu, who is a former chief superintendent for the Metropolitan Police.
And when she says we need to review our entire counterterror strategy, what does she mean by that?
DAL BABU, FRM. SUPERINTENDENT METROPOLITAN POLICE: Well, there are four main strands. And the one strand that's been contentious is the prevent
strand, which is about identifying individuals who are prone to radicalization and then dealing with them.
So I think that's probably one of the areas, but I should imagine there will be an over review of all of the things that we're doing in terms of
catching these individuals.
What you have to remember is this is the third incident in as many months and we are -- people
are rightly concerned and it's about making sure that people feel safe.
ANDERSON: Hold on for one sec, we have got a police press conference coming up and let's
go over to it. I believe it's probably Scotland Yard. If it is, let's listen in.
(SCOTLAND YARD PRESS CONFERENCE)
[11:29:27] ANDERSON: That was Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley updating reporters on the investigation into the attacks on London Bridge and
Borough Market. He said police are making significant progress in identifying London attackers. Met Police fired, he
said, an unprecedented number of rounds. Eight police officers fired, he said around 50 rounds in the London attack. A civilian was wounded by
police gunfire in the attack and that person is now in a hospital.
Dal is still with me. Your thoughts on what we just heard from the assistant commissioner.
BABU: Well, Mark Rowley is a hugely popular among the police service and usually
popular individual within the police service and he's hugely popular in the community. So people have a huge amount of respect for him.
And Mark always makes the point about working with the community. And I think that's really, really key here. We need to make sure the community
come forward if they've gotten any intelligence they need to come forward and share that with the appropriate authorities.
ANDERSON: Seven dead, more than 50 wounded and we know 12 arrests made in Barking. We have just heard from the assistant commissioner. Is this an
investigation that is cracking along as it were, as far as you're concerned?
BABU: Well, they've made progress. And if you look at what the Met Police did, eight minutes from when they first got the call to actually killing
these terrorists, I think it was great. It's a great result. It's what needs to happen very, very quickly.
So that action by the police ensured that there wasn't further casualties. And it's horrendous that we lost lives, but it would have been a lot worse
So, I think in terms of what happened originally at the scene, it's great. What we now need to do is the investigation. And it's very, very important
that information is kept confidential so the names of the individuals haven't been released. And that's -- and I think it was one of the lessons
for everybody to learn after what happened in Manchester. So making sure that that name remains quiet so the police have the element of surprise
when they go in.
ANDERSON: Thank you for that.
BABU: Thank you very much.
ANDERSON: Good analysis.
We are going to take a very short break. I'm Becky Anderson with a special Connect the World, of course, from here just very close to the attacks on
London Bridge, and at Borough Market that have taken the lives of seven people and left almost 50 injured. Back in a moment.
ANDERSON: One of the iconic landmarks of London here in the heart of the city, the Shard for you just behind me as we follow the third terror attack
in England in as many months.
Let's bring you bang up to date in what has happened over the last few hours. We have just heard from the police saying they are making progress
in identifying the attackers. This is the East London suburb of Barking, a number of properties were raided there and 12 people have been arrested in
connection with last night's attack.
Seven people have died, nearly 50 others are wounded after three masked men rammed a van into pedestrians on London Bridge before launching a vicious
stabbing spree nearby.
Police say they fired an unprecedented number of rounds, responding to the incident.
British Prime Minister Theresa May calling for the nation to unite against Islamist extremism. This just days before the country votes on a new
Well, londoners have been coming to lay tributes at the scene. The UK will observe a minute's
silence on Tuesday.
Well, for the latest on that investigation, Samuel Burke outside Scotland Yard where we have just heard from the assistant commissioner. Remind us
what he said and what happens?
[11:35:32] SAMUEL BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, I've just actually moved locations. Everything is moving very quickly, but I just
want to remind people that there are still 36 people in hospitals across London, 21 of them are still in
critical condition. And of course, that's on top of the seven people we know, as you just mentioned that lost their lives.
And from the get go, the very early hours of the morning we've had the Met Police telling us that there is this increased presence of police all
across the capital, and you can see that right behind me. You see those three armed officers there, not a sight that you typically see here in
But the most important thing that we're learning right now is of course that they're moving forward quickly with the investigation to be able to
identify the three attackers that they shot dead.
Now this is very important, because not only do they need to know who, but they need to know were these people on the radar of Met Police and were
they part of a cell?
We're also hearing from foreign governments as they identify some of the people from their countries who have been wounded. We know that an
Australian person, a Canadian and possibly multiple French citizens were among the affected, Becky.
So the investigation moving along and, of course, we just can't forget how quickly the police were able to get down here. Eight minutes. That number
just stands out to me. Eight minutes from the time they got that first call and then got here and were able to kill those three attackers, Becky?
ANDERSON: Samuel Burke there on the scene.
Well, British Prime Minister Theresa May says there is too much tolerance of Islamist extremism in the UK and she is vowing a clampdown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAY: While we have made significant progress in recent years there is, to be frank, far too much tolerance of extremism in our country. So we need
to become far more robust in identifying it and stamping it out across the public sector and across society.
That will require some difficult and often embarrassing conversations, but the whole of our country needs to come together to take on this extremism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Maajid Nawaz now is with us now. He's counter extremist and co- founder and chairman of the Quilliam Foundation. He is also a former member of the group, (inaudible).
Before we talk about clamping down on Islamist extremism, the words of the British prime
minister, and what she means by that. Just talk to me about what we know of the attackers last night
and whether they fit any sort of profile.
MAAJID NAWAZ, CO-FOUNDER, CHAIRMAN QUILLIAM FOUNDATION: Well, I think usually with jihadi suspects is they don't fit a profile. They can be from
any ethnicity. They can be from various age groups and various -- both genders. I think that's something that's established now with jihadist
extremists. The one they do have in common is that either they are born and raised Muslim or they convert to Islam and of course they interpret,
they have a reading of the faith that is first and foremost Islamist in its ideological bench and jihadist in its violent manifestations.
ANDERSON: Or they're just loser, right?
NAWAZ: Well, of course, many of them are losers, but that doesn't take away from the fact they've joined some phenomenon that they believe that
they're fighting for, a struggle they believe they're engaged in for some form of, you know, savior of civilization complex that they have.
ANDERSON: Let's talk about what the prime minister has said. She says four things need to change in the light of these three terror attacks in as
many months. She says pluralistic British values need to defeat Islamist extremism. What does she mean by that?
NAWAZ: Well, Islamist extremism is the desire to impose any version of Islam over society. We must distinguish it from Islam as a religion.
That's as - you know, multifaceted as any other religion whereas Islamism is the desire, as I say, to impose Islam over society or any version of
Islam. Jihadism is its violent manifestation, the use of force to bring about Islamism.
Now, what Islamists want is they want to undermine our democracy. They want to undermine - the fact we have got a general election coming up, they
want to undermine our secular values. So, keeping that in mind. One of the most important things we have to do now in our response is if it's
correct that this is an attack on the freedom and democratic values and the pluralism, then the way we respond mustn't be to undermine those values
So, there is talk of all sorts of measures that people are - naturally angry and they make during such times, but if the analysis is correct that
Islamists are seeking to attack our values, then right now our best revenge could be to hold on dearly and guard those values jealously.
[11:40:13] ANDERSON: So, you sound as if you don't necessarily agree with what she's saying.
Democratic governments need to work together to regulate cyberspace, she said. Military action must destroy ISIS in Iraq and Syria while there must
less tolerance of extremism in our country. She also said that Britain needs to review its counterterror strategy. Your response?
NAWAZ: What she said was a mixed bag. I agree in naming the Islamist ideology, because it helps Muslims like me and people from my community to
isolate the extremists to says that's Islamism and Islam is distinct from that.
However, you know, come on, frankly, banning the Internet. I mean, I know caricaturing the policy, but America has a First Amendment right. Most of
the social media companies are based in the United States. There is already lots being done online to stop illegal incitements of violence, but
speech we don't like, speech in fact, we despise we should be able to match that and meet and beat it with counter speech.
ANDERSON: But we can't.
NAWAZ: Well, we can't. We can also...
ANDERSON: We can't. We can see we can't because a lot of these guys we find out aren't going to mosques. They're not listening to imams these
days. They're getting it off the internet.
NAWAZ: I'll tell you what, it's a hell of a lot easier to challenge it than it is to think that we
can start regulating the internet. Do you think it's hard to challenge extremist speech? It's a lot harder to try and control the internet.
She called for an international agreement. What do you think China and Russia are going to come on board? We have got all these cyber attacks
going on. There's no way we're going to be able to control what goes on online. And the final thing, you know, extending
prison sentences for even watching minor terrorism offenses.
Somebody wants to die in the course of a terrorist attack, believes they're a martyr. They're not going to be put off by longer sentences. They want
death. And when they're killing everyone else they hope they get shot in the process.
So the only real solution to this is a long term, full-spectrum, civil society pushback against the Islamist ideology.
ANDERSON: How many people in the UK do you think are of a mind to go out and do what those three blokes did last night?
NAWAZ: Well, we know the figures the security services are giving us.
ANDERSON: It's about 3,000, aren't they?
NAWAZ: Hardened jihadists are 3,000. There are...
ANDERSON: What does a hardened jihadistmean?
NAWAZ: Ready and prepared to engage in an attack instantly. There are 23,000 who are
sympathetic to jihadist violence that the security services wish they could monitor. That's a significant number. It's not insignificant. Because
there are only, keep in mind, 5 percent of Britain's Muslims and about 4 million Muslims in this country, out of those, 23,000 is a large enough
number to be considered a jihadist insurgency.
So, what we need is the Muslim community on board to start getting active along with everyone else, not just Muslims, mind you. You don't have to be
black to challenge racism. You don't have to be gay to challenge homophobia.
So everyone together needs to stand in solidarity against we are not saying that most of the Muslim community isn't any way on board, right? I mean,
we've had these conversations you and I back and forth over the years. So, there is a huge swathe of the Muslims community in Britain who absolutely
abhor the sort of events we saw last night, correct.
ANDERSON: And they condemn it on a regular basis. What I try and do is push it one stage further and say condemning ISIS is fair and well and
necessary. Let's also push the debate within the community around the need for reforming the discourse and that's the kind of reform that needs to
happen in the mosques with the theology so we can modernize this discourse. Islam is, after all, 600 years younger than Christianity. And it needs to
go through that reform process as well.
NAWAZ: Thank you.
ANDERSON: London's mayor is the first Muslim to hold that position. In the British capital he says authorities must find new ways to battle
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SADIQ KHAN, LONDON MAYOR: And the reality is over the last four years because of the
fantastic work of the police and the security services as a result of the cooperation of the communities, we've thwarted a number of attacks over the
last four years, but unfortunately, in March and in April and now today, last night we've seen terrorists be successful.
What we need to do is make sure that just like the terrorists are evolving and finding new ways to harm us, to disrupt us, we've got to find and
evolve new ways to keep us safe. So, over the Londoners and visitors will be seeing an increased police presence that will include increased armed
officers, increased uniformed officers, but also plain-clothes officers, as well. The threat that will remain severe that an attack is highly likely.
It's been that level for awhile now, save for the Manchester attack.
That means physicists to our city, Londoners should know that we are the safest global city in the world. I've said for awhile now, we've got to
make sure in the west that we recognize that actually Islam is not incompatible with western liberal values, actually terrorists think that
Islam is incompatible with the western, the two are mutually exclusive.
I've always that's not the case. What we need to do is make sure we're teaching our youngsters the resilience, so when it comes to somebody trying
to indoctrinate them, brainwash them, groom them, nowadays it's mainly via the internet they have the resilience to reject that perverse, twisted
But also we've got to make sure that as we're successful in stopping physically preachers of hate
going into mosques or halls or other places, we aren't inadvertently allowing them through the back door via the internet and we need to work
with the internet.
So, we've got to work with the internet service providers to make sure that are hosting preachers who are, you know, espousing this poison ideology,
but also once they're alerted to this stuff that they take this down this stuff as soon as possible. All of us have to work
together to make sure we don't allow a terrorist to cause terror in our communities, but also to fuel division.
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ANDERSON: Well, that's Sadiq Khan, the American President Donald Trump has taken to twitter to respond to the London terror attack and included
criticism of London's mayor. He wrote at least seven dead and 48 wounded in a terror attack. And the mayor of London says there is no reason to be
alarmed, wrote Donald Trump.
We're live from London where last night an attack aimed to inspire fear and division in the UK struck just behind me here Borough Market and on London
Today, people will join together in a celebration of music in Manchester, the scene of the
last attack. The show must go on. That's next.