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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Police Release Names, Photos Of Two Attackers; Witness To Attack Recounts Frightening Moments; London Victims Include 30-Year-Old Engaged Woman; Polls Tighten Ahead Of Thursday's Election; Trump Lashes Out At London Mayor On Twitter. Jeremy Corbyn Calls on P.M. Theresa May to Resign; Mayor of London Vows to Battle Extremists; Six Nations Cut Ties with Qatar in Diplomatic Crisis; UK's Capital Keeps Calm and Carries On; Vigil held in Memory of Those Dead in the London Bridge Attacks; Six Countries Cut Diplomatic Ties with Qatar. Aired 3-5p ET
Aired June 5, 2017 - 15:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live in London. Thanks for being with us on this Monday. You are watching
continuing coverage of the terrorist attack that Britain's prime minister called today an attack on the entire free world.
Police have been working around the clock to identify the assailants and now just in the last few hours, we have some photos and names. Two of the
three attackers have been publicly identified, on the left, Khuram Shazad Butt, he was British, born in Pakistan, and on the right, Rachid Redouane,
who police say claimed to be Moroccan and Libyan.
The London mayor, Sadiq Khan, spoke at a vigil a short time ago and did not hide his disgust.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR SADIQ KHAN, MAYOR: As the mayor of London, I want to send a clear message to the sick and evil extremists who commit these hideous crimes.
We will defeat you. You will not win. As a proud and patriotic British Muslim I say this, you do not commit these disgusting acts in my name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Police made several more arrests this morning as they expand their search trying to determine whether the attackers who killed seven people
were part of a wider network.
CNN terrorism analysis, Paul Cruickshank is with me in the studio with new details on the attackers and particularly the Khuram Shazad Butt.
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Right. Yes, they've identified him as one of the attackers, 27 years old, a British national born in
Pakistan, somebody who came over to the U.K. and somebody, we understand, from our very (inaudible), who did a lot of reporting on this group back in
2014, 2015, 2016 and actually met with Khuram Butt several times.
We understand that he became influenced by the British extremist group, (inaudible), that's a group that has been supportive of ISIS. Its leader,
Anjam Choudry (ph), last year was convicted for (inaudible) ISIS sentenced to five years in jail.
He, Khuram Butt was very much part of this group, was influenced by them. Our colleague, (inaudible), spent time with him, described him as very
quiet spoken. He was not really a leader, more like a follower. He really appeared to have become brainwashed by this group's propaganda very, very
supportive of ISIS. He was on the radar screen of the police and MI-5 for some time, it appears.
Rachid Redouane, 30 years old, also from Banking, on the right of the screen, that he was not on the radar screen of either the police or the
We also found out from a friend at the gym who just recently saw Khuram Butt just a few days ago, just a few days before the attack, that he had
recently told this friend that he and his wife had a baby just a few months before this attack. So some very interesting details coming out.
We understand that Khuram Butt works as a receptionist at a fitness center in east London.
GORANI: All right, so we have two. Police have not released the name of the third.
CRUICKSHANK: Police have not released the name of the third as of this point, Hala.
GORANI: All right, let's go back there because this Khuram Butt now according to the reports I have read several neighbors expressed concern,
we understand, reportedly even called authorities.
[15:05:10]We understand as well that he was thrown out of his local mosque for being too extreme. He was in fact also in a documentary on television
last year, "The Jihadis Next Door." This guy was on the radar.
CRUICKSHANK: Yes. He was not only --
GORANI: This is not some random guy that nobody has ever heard of.
CRUICKSHANK: You're right. Not only on the radar screen, but on a major television documentary (inaudible) on Channel 4. Colleagues of us featured
several times in that documentary, including during a sequence when several of them unfurled a black flag (inaudible).
Somebody who was moving in the circle of (inaudible), this pro-ISIS group. This pro-ISIS group in the U.K. as you know has been around for a very long
time, since even before 9/11.
And they've actually been linked to about half of all terrorist plots in the U.K. around the world where British nationals have been involved.
So a lot of questions to security resources given the fact he was part of this proselytizing group on the streets of Islam and very visible
GORANI: I mean, if he's unfurling an ISIS flag (inaudible) on television, he is hardly flying under the radar, that's the thing.
CRUICKSHANK: You better believe it.
GORANI: Yes, absolutely. Paul Cruickshank, thanks very much for your reporting with that breaking new, the latest on the investigation. We'll
be speaking with Paul a little bit later.
Let's get more now on what police is saying. Samuel Burke is live at Scotland Yard. Tell us more about what police have announced today. We
have some important elements here with names and pictures.
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Hala. We are learning more about Rachid Redouane, 30 years old, claimed to be Moroccan and Libyan, but
more importantly what you and Paul were talking about just now about Khuram Shazad Butt, again, 27 years old, a British citizen, but born in Pakistan.
And I say more importantly, when talking about him because the folks here at Scotland Yard tell us that he was known by both police and MI-5.
And this gets to this very important question that is growing here in the U.K. about A, what type of resources the police have, what type of
resources have been cut, and B, what they are doing with the information that they do get about these people.
As you reference, as CNN reporters spoke to a neighbor who claimed that they had flagged up one of these attackers to the authorities and Hala,
just a short time ago, we had the police commander for community engagement come out here with a group of Muslim leaders.
And they said in a statement that they had crafted together that the commander who is himself a Muslim fasting on Ramadan right now, he said,
and they said, quote, "Muslims must do more."
Though Hala, you and I, were both in Manchester and we heard in the wake of the Ariana Grande concert terrorist attack, members of the Manchester
Muslim community tell us that they were concerned about Salman Abedi.
That they had flagged him up to the authorities. So I asked this police commander, how can you reconcile saying that Muslims need to do more and
the fact that we've heard reports from U.K. media today saying that some of those calls from people in the Muslim community may have gone to the wrong
department and fall into the crack, and this is what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAK CHISHTY, METROPOLITAN POLICE COMMANDER FOR ENGAGEMENT: Unlike -- single person rules, a lone wolf may keep everything to himself. When you
got three people in concert, necessarily, there must have been some discussion around that and some people even have the closest point to them
must have known something. And we are saying they had a duty. The Muslim community say they had that duty to report it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURKE: So even if Salman Abedi was just one person, what this police commander was saying was that if three people must have known about this
attack, if the three attackers knew, he is saying that it's not enough for the Muslim community to just flag up the attack.
He said they also have a responsibility to flag up the actual attack because he said in his assumption if three people must have known then
other people would have known. So it really calls into question if people are flagging up these people as individuals and that's not enough.
What type of resources do the U.K. police need to carry out further investigations to try and prevent attacks like we are living through here
GORANI: All right, Samuel Burke, thanks very much. We'll be obviously asking those questions a little bit later in the program. Do the police
numbers need to go back up to what they were a few years ago when then Home Secretary Theresa May cut police numbers by about 20,000? This is going to
be a big topic as well as we are in fact only three days away from the next general election.
[15:10:00]Now let's get more in the investigation and on these suspects. We have new video. We were discussing with our terrorism analyst, Paul
Cruickshank, who is in the studio that Channel 4 last year featured around Khuram Butt. So we see him there with that ISIS flag. Tell us more about
CRUICKSHANK: Yes, there he is right there on the screen right now. Khuram Butt, 27 years old, a British national from Barking and here you see him
with followers of this British pro-ISIS extremist group called (inaudible) Barren Regents part just a few years ago.
We understand from our colleague, (inaudible), who actually did a lot of reporting on this group in 2014, 2015, and 2016. That one of his closest
associates in this group that you see here on the screen was a British national known as (inaudible).
Now (inaudible) actually went off to Syria in October 2014. He skipped bail. They wanted to arrest him. They managed to arrest him, but he got
out on bail and he managed to get away from the country join ISIS.
He actually then taunted the British after joining the group and there is some speculation that he was involved in a January 2016 execution video for
ISIS, somebody who appears to be playing a somewhat prominent role in the terrorist organization.
Somebody that according to (inaudible) who did this great reporting was very, very close to Khuram Butt and why is that interesting. It is
interesting because as the British investigators probe overseas connections, it is certainly plausible that he would have had a cell phone
number, an email, something for a very prominent British member and ISIS.
Could ISIS have had some role in this? That's what they are claiming --
GORANI: Why wasn't he arrested, Khuram Butt?
CRUICKSHANK: Khuram Butt?
CRUICKSHANK: Well, that's a question we are going to have asked British police, British authorities, presumably they weren't able to arrest him
because they did not have enough evidence to charge him --
GORANI: Because Anjam Choudry (ph) is in jail for inciting people to join a terrorist group, I mean, I guess, they didn't have enough evidence to
charge him with the same type of crime?
CRUICKSHANK: Well, going to regent's part and helping unfurl a black Islamic banner is not sufficient grounds for prosecution. Attending a
group who have these views isn't necessarily sufficient grounds for prosecution either, Hala, or there has to be sort of something more rising
to a certain threshold.
They managed to get that evidence when it came to Anjam Choudry (ph). It was a lot of YouTube videos that he posted, some of the things he'd said
that that the British Muslims needed to pledge their loyalty to Abu Bakar al-Baghdadi, the head of ISIS.
For Anjam Choudry (ph), the leader of this group, that sort of passed a certain threshold. He was a foot soldier in this movement. They don't
appear to have focused on him and of course, there are many other foot soldiers out there that in the days ahead could be inspired by what he did.
GORANI: Well, (inaudible) group certainly is going to be looked at a lot more closely after this. Thanks very much, Paul Cruickshank and will catch
up with you little bit later with more of our breaking news.
Now witnesses to these attacks are describing obviously horrific scenes, but also acts of heroism by the police. I'm joined now by Liam Connell,
who was at a bar when it all unfolded.
Liam, thanks for being with us. Where were you on Saturday? What did you see?
LIAM CONNELL, WITNESSED ATTACK: I was at a (inaudible), which is a couple (inaudible) and yes, it was a standard night -- I mean, I've never been to
London Bridge before (inaudible) that it's my first night there. And yes, like at 10-ish, we've started to get evacuated by staff and there's no
police at this point. We were told it was best to stay where we were. We are actually in the basement (inaudible).
About 1020, I started to notice police and that's when I started filming, and soon after that we were told to drop to the floor because they've
actually armed police in the place.
And yes, that was the scariest part (inaudible) and then, yes, there is a lot of trying to find out what actually happened at this point we didn't
GORANI: Yes -- so it was 10:20 at that point so it was about 20+minutes after the van started plowing into people. When there were armed police in
the bar where you were on that Saturday night, what was the scene like then? What were they telling you to do?
CONNELL: (Inaudible) is to leave. No one knew what was going on. We didn't actually realize anything (inaudible). We were completely used to
and that people tired on drinking. People making jokes. It looked fine.
[15:15:06]It wasn't until that the armed police came and that we were like something is wrong. Once we dropped to the floor, there was a lot of
speculation of what was going on. A lot of people checking their phones.
I was saying to my friends actually that nothing bad had happened. It was something small and this is just almost like an overreaction or just
(inaudible). It wasn't until -- we were told that if there's any armed police, drop to the floor.
It wasn't actually until we got up and that I kind of realize how bad it was because my friends told me that there was someone behind who actually
GORANI: And what did you see when you finally left the bar?
CONNELL: We just kind of ran. Yes, I mean, the police are there at the hallway. They helped us the whole way. They were there and everyone was
saying thank you to them. Everyone was so, so grateful to them. Even though everyone wanted to leave and quite quick to leave after all these
pieces of guns around, no one panicked. No one was (inaudible) shoving, everyone was just (inaudible) to leave almost.
GORANI: OK, well, thanks very much, Liam Connell there on Saturday night. I know it must have been really frightening for you and his first time at a
London Bridge bar as well. Thanks for joining us this evening and sharing your story.
Still to come, Saturday's shocking attack is bringing terror and security to the floor, but this is all as we mentioned there happening three ahead
of a big general election year here. We are live at Downing Street next.
Also the other news we are following, a diplomatic disaster after decades of cooperation, Gulf nations turn their collective backs on tiny Qatar.
We'll explain why.
GORANI: Even as the investigation intensifies, London slowed for a moment today and pause to remember.
GORANI: Mayor Khan leading the crowd at a moment of silence in the shadow of Tower Bridge to remember the victims, people like Christy Archibald, a
30-year-old Canadian, who worked at a homeless shelter until moving to Europe to start a life with her fiance, Tyler, her family told the CBC.
It was her first trip to London. The young couple was crossing the bridge together when the van hit Christy. Tyler's sister told the CBC, he held
her until she passed away.
[15:20:09]Christy's family had asked people to honor her by, quote, "making your community a better place."
I want to go back to the vigil now. Melissa Bell, joins me live from Putterfield's Park with more on a day of remembrance but also a race
against the clock to get this investigation moving as quickly as possible - - Melissa.
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Hala. And even as we were hearing the beginnings of the fruits of that investigation,
it has taken a remarkably long time for those two names to be announced by the police as you've been talking about tonight.
People gathered here for what was really the first opportunity, Hala, that London has had to get together and remember those victims of Saturday
night, a tragic event.
And it was a minute of silence as you heard there led by Sadiq Khan, and he spoke for many of those who'd gathered here a while ago, many of them
Muslims when he said that he spoke as a proud British Muslim, a proud patriotic British Muslim speaking directly to the attackers and saying that
they did not speak in his name.
There were several groups of young Muslims here, young women, young men, a group of imams, Hala, who were applauded as they made their way to put
their flowers at the memorial that's just begun -- the flowers that's been put down by those who attended the vigil earlier on and still people
gathered there lighting candles and remembering those who lost their lives.
GORANI: All right, Melissa Bell, it's become a depressingly familiar scene after Manchester now London. Thanks very much.
Saturday night (inaudible) here in London comes just a few days before a crucial general election and it has put the issue of security front and
center once again.
Labour's Jeremy Corbyn has fiercely criticized Prime Minister Theresa May, it is an election campaign after all, over her past handling of police
resources from the time she was home secretary. May has hit back strongly defending her record.
All right. There you have both candidates of the leading parties. Let's go to Downing Street. CNN's Nic Robertson is there. So we are a few days
after this horrible attack, a few weeks after Manchester, and a few days before this big election. Politically describe the landscape, is the gap
between the two candidates still narrowing?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The gap is still narrow as we know it's been narrowing over the past several weeks. So that
really gives an indication that there were other issues here. Theresa May has cast herself as a strong stable leadership, the only one who can lead
the country into the Brexit negotiations, which begins 11 days after the election, 14 days to weeks from now, to be precise.
And that seems -- that campaign seems to have found a little bit. There have been -- Labour has been taking a run over the treatment of the health
service in Britain, over the treatment of schools. There have been a lot of talk about how you turn.
So as supporters eroded over a number of issues but over the issue of terrorism, this is a place where she is particularly sensitive and open to
criticism because of the six years she had as the home secretary running the country's security, if you will, overseeing the police.
She had an abrasive relationship with the police because she reduced the number of police officers in the country by about 19,000 and that's what
the leader of the opposition is picking upon now.
She had tried -- she is leading obviously on the stable and strong leadership. It is hard to maintain that narrative when there are a number
of terror attacks going on to during the campaign in the run up of the elections.
But that seems to be, you know, the terrorism part of it is an area where she can also excel on whether the public thinks she is good because she
does have this image of being strong and her statement since this attack have been declarative and have been clear, and have certainly given support
to her base.
So you know we're really not going to know until Election Day itself how it's going to play. We are getting very, very close, but there is no doubt
about it that with the polls being as narrow as they are, she's certainly cannot afford any more erosion and she is -- she is open to that erosion
over this issue.
And that is what the leader of the opposition has been focusing on, focusing in on over the past 24 hours. So yes, this could be a key issue.
GORANI: All right. Certainly this is front and center in people's minds across the country and especially in London. Nic Robertson, thanks very
By the way, we'll be speaking to a conservative MP a little bit later in the program with more on the criticism that Theresa May, the prime
minister, has been facing because of those cuts to police forces while she was home secretary.
The leader of the opposition, Jeremy Corbyn, this is a political campaign criticizing the prime minister. We will be the thing that later.
Now speaking of politics and rivalries maybe just on one side in this case, while London authorities are working around the clock to try to crack a
possible terror network, the American president, Donald Trump, is ramping up some personal attacks on the city's mayor.
[15:25:11]Originally he said on Twitter, "At least seven dead and 48 wounded in terror attack and mayor of London says there is no reason to be
Khan declined to comment to Trump directly. His spokesperson said he had more important things to do than respond to Mr. Trump's ill-informed tweet.
Now context, by the way, Sadiq Khan did not say that. He said people shouldn't be alarmed by the increased police presence.
Then in terms next week was even more negative in tone, "Pathetic excused by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had think fast on his no reason to be
alarmed statement, MSM," as in mainstream media, "is working hard to sell it."
In the last hour, the White House deputy press secretary weighed in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: I don't see that the president is picking a fight with the mayor of London at all. I
think again the president's point is something he said frankly back on almost two years now, a year and a half ago when the president talked about
how we have to be more committed to national security. One of the reasons we have the travel ban here through that executive order is a focus on
national security. That was the point he was trying to make.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Sarah Huckabee Sanders. He is not picking a fight. Dan Merica is there at the White House. What would it be if you were picking a fight?
Those two tweets sure looked like he was trying to pick a fight with Sadiq Khan?
DAN MERICA, CNN POLITICAL PRODUCER: I think what's fair to say that this is not exactly what the White House wanted to talk about today. This is a
big week for them. He tried over the weekend to float out that they're going to push infrastructure reform throughout the United States.
At an event earlier today with the president to do that, but what is the dominant talking point here with both Republicans and Democrats is the
president's early morning tweets. It's not clear maybe he did not want to pick a fight with the London mayor, but that is exactly what has had
The back and forth between these two men has led to not only some questions domestically here in the United States, why is the president doing this?
But it's become somewhat of an international incident with both Mayor Khan and other leaders having to respond.
What is very clear here is that the president relies on Twitter to get his message out to his voters. It's what he did during the campaign. It's
what his done during in his White House.
Going forward though you have a number White House aides who after this morning and have said we shouldn't focus as much on these on these tweets.
What remains clear, though, is that these tweets are the president's most distilled thoughts.
This is what he thinks in the morning and this is how he gets his message out. So they may say he is not trying to pick a fight with the mayor, it
was pretty clear that he was doing something to antagonize him in these tweets.
GORANI: Right. And the mayor as we mentioned through a spokesperson saying he does not even have time to respond. So it's not so much a spat,
but just two tweets by the president interpreted as being criticism of the mayor of London during a very difficult time.
President Trump hasn't just been tweeting about Sadiq Khan, he's turning to the Supreme Court for help with this executive order on immigration. He's
now emphatically calling it a travel ban, Dan.
He tweeted that "People the lawyers and the courts can call it whatever they want, but I am calling it what we need and what it is, a travel ban."
So now he's gone on this tweetstorm just as the administration is appealing to the Supreme Court of the United States to reinstate this ban. What is
exactly behind this move?
MERICA: It's hard to state how much this undercuts what his aides had said in the past. You had Sean Spicer in January who said, it is a
misrepresentation of this to call it a travel ban. But then you have the president this morning saying outright it is a travel ban, I'm going to
call it what I want to call it.
This was very clear the way that it undercut those White House aides and the Department of Justice. This was clear in tweets by George Conway, who
funny enough his Kellyanne Conway, a top White House adviser's husband, who tweeted today saying that this undercuts the Department of Justice's
ability to argue on behalf of this travel ban.
Going forward, you're going to hear President Trump use Twitter like this. He is going to say what he wants to say, but it is very clear here in
Washington and this is an annoyance in the White House and is forcing, not only forcing them to respond but really undercutting the credibility of
some President Trump's top aides.
GORANI: But why very quickly -- why does the president keep tweeting like this? I mean, it is a fair question. It is the focus -- taking away focus
from big policy questions. It's dominating the headlines. All of his aides and advisors do not want this to happen anymore. Why does he keep
MERICA: To be completely blunt, I think it's what he enjoys. I think he wakes up in the morning. He watches the news. We've been told multiple
times that he watches the news and response to it via Twitter. And you can actually correlate what he is watching in the morning with what he is
tweeting in the 6:00, 7:00, 8:00 hours here on the east coast. So you know, for a lack of a better explanation, it's just what he enjoys doing.
GORANI: All right. Dan Merica at the White House, thanks very much.
A lot more coming up, more on the men behind Saturday's attack in London, review of the details, CNN is breaking this hour just ahead.
[15:30:00] HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: -- more on the men behind Saturday's attack in London, a review of the details CNN is breaking this hour just
GORANI: Welcome back. We're covering Saturday's terrorist attack from every angle. Let's review what we know right now. British police have
named two of the three men behind the assault, both from East London. You see their pictures there.
Khuram Shazad Butt was a British national born in Pakistan. He's on the left. He worked for the London Underground briefly last year. Police and
MI-5 were familiar with him, but police say they had no intel leading up to this attack.
On the right is a man named Rachid Redouane. He, also, was gunned down by police on Saturday. He claimed to be Moroccan and Libyan, was not known to
The three attackers were confronted by armed police and shot dead, as we've been reporting, within eight minutes of the first emergency call, right
before 10:00 p.m., in the London Bridge area.
Let's talk a little bit about what's coming up in three days because it's a big general election. Conservative politician, Kwasi Kwarteng, is here.
Hi. Thanks for being with us.
KWASI KWARTENG, MEMBER OF THE PARLIAMENT, UNITED KINGDOM: Thanks.
GORANI: There have been calls on Mrs. May, the Prime Minister, to resign because, during her time as Home Secretary, she cut police forces by 20,000
and therefore, in some ways, she should be held responsible for the drop in policing numbers. What do you make of that?
KWARTENG: I think that's, you know, part of the election. There's a lot of big words. Jeremy Corbyn's trying to make an impact. I think it's
nonsense though because, as you pointed out in your report, the police came within eight minutes and did an incredibly good job.
So it's not just a question of the numbers. If we're going to tackle this thing, it's about mentality, it's about ideology, it's about philosophy.
And I think that, you know, as the Prime Minister outlined yesterday, there's a lot more that we could do to try and integrate our communities.
GORANI: But the Prime Minister has been wanting this image, this strong and stable image of the government, of the Prime Minister coming into this
campaign with an enormous lead in the polls. It has done nothing but shrink. And here, also, we have really a government that perhaps seems may
be not as strong and not as stable, having to go back even on pledges made in its own manifesto.
KWARTENG: I don't think that's true at all, I mean, if you look at campaigns generally. I remember 1997, the Labour Party headed hugely at
the beginning of that campaign and the lead actually shrunk. I mean, that's what often happens in general election campaigns.
And the government's message has been very clear. I think the Prime Minister gave a good speech yesterday where she outlined that enough is
enough. We can't simply carry on as we were before, and there has to be a change of direction. We have to look at the philosophy, as I say, the
ideology of Islamic extremism.
[15:35:04] GORANI: But how do you do that? How do you do that?
KWARTENG: I think there's a lot more that could be done in some sort of --
GORANI: I mean, there were no real specific actions or policy proposals in that speech.
KWARTENG: No, she made a broad statement saying that, clearly, what we've been doing in the past needs to change. On that front, I think there's a
lot more that could be done to integrate actual communities for us to find out what's going on, what sorts for messages are being preached in mosques.
And also, as she said in her speech, we've been too tolerant of extremism in our midst. We've been too relaxed about a lot of the hate, that things
GORANI: Her critics would say she had years as Home Secretary to address this and didn't.
KWARTENG: Well, as we know already, reports have suggested that MI-5 and a lot of other security services have foiled many plots in the last year, and
I think that was the case, certainly, when she was Home Secretary for six years.
GORANI: Now, regarding the campaign, you're saying it is not unusual for parties that go into campaigns with a very strong lead in the polls to see
their lead shrink.
GORANI: But in this case, there have been some polls within the margin of error. Are you concerned your party's going to lose its majority in
KWARTENG: Well --
GORANI: -- and therefore that Theresa May's gamble may backfire?
KWARTENG: Well, let's see what happens. I mean, we've had lots of predictions before ahead of elections that had been wrong. I mean, there
was Brexit. There was obviously President Trump that no one --
GORANI: You want this one to be right though, don't you?
KWARTENG: -- no one foresaw.
KWARTENG: And, of course, the polls now are very varied. I mean, some polls have shown us, I think, 11 points ahead. That was one today. A
number have shown smaller leads. So we'll have to see what happens on Thursday.
It's notable that no poll has shown Labour in the lead. And I was a candidate in 2015, and, of course, you know, every other people, half the
poll, showed Labour ahead and the conservatives won. So the trend, I think, is the conservatives are ahead. We just have to wait and see what
the actual result is. Nobody can say that now.
GORANI: What do you make of what Donald Trump tweeted about Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London, calling him pathetic today?
KWARTENG: I think it would be helpful for Donald Trump to, you know, focus on United States of America. I mean, I don't know that we need to have
Donald Trump, the President, commenting on our internal affairs or internal politics. And Sadiq Khan is the mayor of London. He's been elected, he
has a mandate, and he should be treated with the respect that he deserves.
GORANI: Theresa May said he was doing a great job. Donald Trump, obviously, wouldn't agree with her. Do you think it's hurt Theresa May,
her close association with Donald Trump, in this country? Donald Trump is not popular in Europe or in the U.K.
KWARTENG: Well, I think as Prime Minister of Great Britain, any prime minister would have to have a good relationship with the President of
United States, and I think Theresa May was very conscious of that.
And in a way, the relationship is bigger than the actual individual holders of the office, whoever the Prime Minister or the President happens to be.
It's more important relationship than that. And I think Number 10 realize and it was on that basis that she tried to form this relationship.
GORANI: Because she didn't sign, for instance, that letter condemning the U.S.' decision to withdraw from the Paris Accord. That was highlighted
perhaps and the --
KWARTENG: Well, I mean, as politicians, I mean, even at my low level, I mean, we're asked to sign all sorts of things, and I tend to avoid that
because I want to use my words But I don't know what the reason was.
GORANI: Kwasi Kwarteng, thanks very much. We really appreciate it. Always great having you on the program.
KWARTENG: Thank you.
GORANI: Well, speaking of the attack and the reaction from the Muslim community, of course, I am not sure you saw this, but more than 130 British
Muslims -- imams and religious leaders -- issued a statement. They're saying they are refusing to perform the burial prayer for any of the
perpetrators of the attack.
"We will not perform the traditional Islamic funeral prayer for the perpetrators, and we also urge fellow imams and religious authorities to
withdraw such a privilege. This is because such indefensible actions are completely at odds with the lofty teachings of Islam."
The London Mayor, Sadiq Khan, had strong words for the perpetrators today, too, saying, "As a proud British Muslim, I say this, you do not commit
these disgusting acts in my name."
Well, Khan's election as mayor last year was seen by many as a celebration of London's diversity. He also had to deal with attacks undermining it.
Take a look.
GORANI (voice-over): When he was elected last year, expectations were high for Sadiq Khan, London's first ever Muslim mayor. He has since risen to be
one of the most recognized Muslim politicians in Europe.
MAYOR SADIQ KHAN, LONDON, UNITED KINGDOM: I never dreamed that someone like me could be elected as Mayor of London.
GORANI (voice-over): The son of a London bus driver and a seamstress, his parents were Pakistani immigrants. He grew up in public housing, went to
states schools, and then became a lawyer, Member of Parliament, and government minister.
Khan's role defies a political trend dividing Western nations across America and Europe. Islam has become an emotive, often fearful political
issue after large terror strikes in the U.S., France and Belgium, and now, in the U.K.
[15:40:04] And after the attacks in London, Khan is now facing that challenge head-on.
KHAN: The basic promise has to be to recognize, just like a terrorist and others are finding new ways to harm us, we've got to evolve and find new
ways to keep us safe.
GORANI (voice-over): And after the attack in Manchester two weeks ago, the Mayor expressed the need for good interfaith relations.
KHAN: Here in London, we show that we don't simply tolerate different faiths, we respect and celebrate them too. And diversity is what makes
London the greatest city in the world.
GORANI (voice-over): Sadiq Khan's supporters say having him as the Mayor shows many people here are very comfortable with the clear difference
between those who murder in the name of Islam and the rest of the Muslim community.
GORANI: This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Still ahead, the worst diplomatic rift in decades, why the oil-rich nation of Qatar suddenly finds itself all
alone in the Persian Gulf.
Also, Londoners keep calm and carry on as they return to work following the terror attack. We'll be right back.
GORANI: Now to a diplomatic rift that has left one of the world's richest nations -- and smallest nations -- isolated. Multiple countries in the
region have abruptly cut off ties with Qatar, accusing it of supporting terrorism. Those countries are Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Egypt, Yemen, the
Maldives, even, and the United Arab Emirates. Qatar calls the allegations baseless.
The move is causing chaos for many people in the region, so what is really behind this major diplomatic shift? My next guest is Fawaz Gerges. He's
the chair of Contemporary Middle East Studies at the London School of Economics and the author of "ISIS: A History."
What's really behind this here? You have GCC countries, normally should be united. In this case, they're all turning their backs except Kuwait,
interestingly, on Qatar at the same time.
FAWAZ GERGES, PROFESSOR, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS AND POLITICAL SCIENCE: It's a very serious family dispute. I think, this thought that triggered
the crisis was the summit in Saudi Arabia, as in Trump. And basically, he wants a broad coalition, not only against ISIS but also against Iran.
The emir of Qatar, Thani, was very unhappy. He went back and he criticized the American president, he criticized the meeting, some Gulf States. And
he said, well, look, Iran should not be turned into a hostile state. That was really the hair that broke the camel's back and has fathered the whole
But this goes back to 2014. The reality is, I mean, I think what Qatar is trying to do, Hala, is trying to really play a bigger role in the Middle
East by supporting Islamist groups throughout the region -- the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Islamists in Libya -- who are seen as this trap by the
pivotal states -- Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates.
[15:45:06] What you will have now is that Qatar is isolated. Qatar is in the eye of the storm. Not just physically but even politically and
diplomatically, they are pressuring Qatar to really change its behavior and accept the consensus in the Gulf and the Arab world.
GORANI: So I'm getting this news, urgent, which is -- sorry, apologies, I'm looking down. The Kuwaiti emir has spoken out. So Kuwait and Oman are
the two countries in the Gulf that has not cut ties with Qatar.
Potentially, Kuwait would play a mediating role. It looks like that's what's happening. The emir of Kuwait has urged Qatar's emir to exercise
self-restraint and refrain from steps that would escalate the situation. So it appears as though, at least, from some members of the GCC, there's an
attempt to mend fences here.
GERGES: That's exactly what happened in 2014. Saudi Arabia broke diplomatic relations with Qatar. It took nine months and the Kuwaitis
stepped in and brokered a settlement between Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Saudi Arabia now says, look, Qatar has not basically charged its obligations.
In fact, if you read carefully, it's really amazing, Hala. If you read carefully what the Saudis and the Egyptians and the Emirates and the
Bahrainis, they accuse Qatar of supporting terrorist groups, including al Qaeda and ISIS. They accuse Qatar of conspiring against the national
security of Saudi Arabia and Egypt. They accuse Qatar of supporting the Houthis in Yemen.
So this is a serious situation. My take on it, the Kuwaitis will not be able to do what they did in 2014 because neither Saudi Arabia --
GORANI: But this is just a pretext, isn't it? I mean, it's the fact that the emir in Qatar made those comments that were broadcast, by the way, by
the state-run Qatari agency, later said to be fake and that they were hacked, essentially in support of more openness toward Iran. And this
tremendously angered the Saudis --
GORANI: -- for whom their bete noire in the region is Iran.
GERGES: Iran is an existential enemy for Saudi Arabia. Iran really is a very, very important rival for Saudi Arabia. The fact that the emir of
Qatar -- this is not the first time. The Saudis did not really buy the denial by the emir of Qatar.
The reality is, this particular crisis today will not be resolved in the same way that it was in 2014 --
GORANI: But Qatar can't afford it. It cannot afford to be isolated.
GORANI: I mean, it's a big gas producer and the rest of it, but it still needs to trade with its partners. It still needs to have open borders. I
mean, they actually are throwing people out of --
GERGES: Not only that, Hala.
GORANI: -- GCC countries that are Qatari also.
GERGES: Not only that. Qatar has land borders with Saudi Arabia. It's the only land crossing Saudi Arabia. It's physically isolated. It's
bleeding. I mean, it suffocates without the land. That's it.
Not only that, can Qatar afford to take on Egypt and Saudi Arabia, two pivotal states in the region, given the fact that this coalition is
empowered? My take on it, the Qataris will finally accept the terms made by the Saudis.
GORANI: And what are the terms? What are the terms, then?
GERGES: Desist from supporting Islamists, the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamists in the region. Accept the consensus in the Gulf and in Egypt
about Iran being a rival and it should be confronted. And also not to use Al Jazeera. It sponsors Al Jazeera, one of the most important satellite
stations, to criticize not only the Gulf States but also Egypt.
These are very, very, I mean, important terms. And my take on it, Qatar is in a very weak position now.
GERGES: What choices, what card does it have? They feel --
GORANI: Well, it wants to be a world power. It wants to hold the World Cup. It wants to be this big player. But in the end, it's a tiny country.
GERGES: It really is. And this is --
GORANI: And if it doesn't have the support of its neighbors, what does it have?
GERGES: And that's why the only card that Qatar has now are the American bases in Qatar. But even the Americans, the emir of Qatar criticized
President Trump. There are major tensions between, I mean, the Trump administration and Qatar.
GORANI: Last question. After the Donald Trump visit, did this embolden these countries to do what they did just now?
GERGES: Oh, absolutely. I mean, what President Trump did basically to really accept the strategic view of Saudi Arabia as the pivotal state in
the region, along with Egypt. And this is why, now, they have Qatar where they want it to be, in a corner. It's squeezed and basically, they would
like to force Qatar to change its behavior in the region, not just in the Gulf itself.
GORANI: Fawaz Gerges, as always, great pleasure having you on. Thank you very much.
Coming up, London unbowed. The U.K. capital shows its resilience. People head back to work following the terrorist attack. We'll have reaction from
the streets of Central London. We'll be right back.
[15:51:29] GORANI: The streets of London are changing in the face of this terrorist attack. Barriers have been erected on some of the city's bridges
as authorities respond to the second attack in London where vehicles were used as a weapon on a bridge. You see it there on London Bridge. It's a
difficult balance -- no, I should say that's Westminster Bridge, apologies.
It's a difficult balance as they try to protect the innocent without making them feel under a siege. There are also calls for all police to be armed,
but the head of the Metropolitan Police and, in fact, it should be said, a lot of Britons disagree.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRESSIDA DICK, COMMISSIONER, METROPOLITAN POLICE SERVICE: Those people who carried out this attack wants to change our society forever. I don't think
we want arms to the police officers or military standing on all our street corners as an example.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: As officials try to walk the fine line between ramping up security and keeping society fundamentally unchanged, Londoners are keeping calm and
trying to carry on, as the expression goes.
Fred Pleitgen is here with me. He was out in the streets of London today.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. And that's exactly what people are doing, they're keeping calm
and carrying on.
I do have to say that we spoke to many people, especially around the London Bridge area, many people who were going to their, obviously, first morning
commute on a Monday, and there were some who did say that they are more concerned than they were before because, also, there had been, you know, so
many attacks in the past 10 weeks here in Britain.
So that's something that did concern people. But by and large, they were very defiant and said, of course, the city is going to carry on. Here's
what we saw.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Meticulously looking for even the tiniest clues, forensic workers comb through the scene of Saturday's terror attack. But
just a few yards away, the city is getting back to its normal pace, commuters rushing to work, one of London's ways of defying the third act of
terrorism since April.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think over the weekend, the coverage and there are a number of people that talks about London as being determined. And I
think that's absolutely what we are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The English are used to it. It's something that we just come together at times like this and just carry on.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): The terrorists plowed through London with a van on Saturday night, hitting many people, killing at least seven.
On Monday, the grief and sorrow still very present. Many stopping and laying flowers at the edge of the crime scene, some overcome with emotion.
There is more police on the streets for extra security but otherwise, the city is barely missing a beat.
PLEITGEN (on camera): There was incredible carnage here on London Bridge as the van apparently swerved from side to side trying to hit as many
people as possible. But only two days later, the bridge is open once again, with people walking across, enjoying the London skyline.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Defiant in the aftermath, defiant during the attack. Romanian baker, Florin Morariu, is being hailed as a hero for
hitting one of the attackers in the head with a basket to save people hiding in the store he works at.
FLORIN MORARIU, BAKER: I have two baskets, yes. I need to take on two baskets, yes. One is (inaudible) is no -- it's like that these guys, yes.
Number two basket is delivered in the face, yes.
PLEITGEN (on camera): You hit him in the face with the basket?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come with me.
MORARIU: What are you doing (ph)? Stop.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pick that up (ph). Somebody take it with me. He's stabbed.
MORARIU: Here, take this. Take this, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Florin Morariu also recorded the moments immediately afterwards, the chaos and the carnage. He says he doesn't feel
like a hero.
MORARIU: It's not about threat. Maybe it's my father, maybe it's my brother in this moment, yes? If possible help, help.
[15:55:01] PLEITGEN (voice-over): Keep calm and carry on, they say in Britain. And that's exactly what London is doing, the residents and the
tourists appreciating their city and its many attractions even more after a tough weekend.
PLEITGEN: So you see Londoners carrying on as best as they can. There is a lot of grief, there is a lot of sorrow, but, of course, there is also a
lot of defiance. And by the way, one thing that we didn't see is -- London Bridge actually partially open to traffic.
PLEITGEN: One lane or one side is open to traffic. No additional barriers yet, but I'm sure that, especially there, some will come up pretty shortly.
GORANI: Yes. So the ones we were showing our viewers were at Westminster Bridge.
GORANI: That's where the attack happened about 2 1/2 months ago in March, outside of Westminster. And the role of the police has been highlighted
quite a lot. I mean, they have really just been described as heroes in many cases. When you spoke to people, what did say they wanted from the
PLEITGEN: I think that a lot of them felt that the police reacted very adequately. I think that some of them who we spoke to said, look, they're
feeling a little bit of unease because these plots were able to able. And I think that has more to do probably with intelligence and others to have
worked rather than with the police work actually once something does happen.
PLEITGEN: I think the reaction of the police force was something that people were very pleased with, but they said, look, they had really hoped
that something just would have been discovered early on.
But I think most people understand that when you have things like this, plots like this, you know, with using a vehicle instead of a bomb, that is
so rudimentary, so difficult to detect, I think they understand it's pretty hard to stop something like that altogether.
GORANI: All right. Yes, and we've seen it in other places, Nice to Berlin, and now in London. Thanks very much, Fred Pleitgen.
The attack is far from the first time the city has had to face adversity. There was obviously the Blitz when thousands of German bombs rained down on
London, killing thousands and causing massive damage. And then there were decades of attacks from Irish Republicans. Both times, the city rebuilt.
It moved on.
So when a newspaper suggested London was reeling after Saturday evening, they replied the way they know best, with sarcasm. The hash tag, "Things
that leave Britain reeling," filled with comments, such as, "Not catching someone's name and having to spend the next three decades avoiding
introducing them to anyone."
GORANI: I've been there. And "People who stand to the left on the Tube escalator. Things that leave Britain reeling." Don't get me started on
Thanks for watching this hour of special coverage. I'll be back on the other side of this break with more.
[16:00:03] GORANI: Tonight, Britain's prime minister vows to crack down on extremism as security services race to investigate the country's third
terrorist attack in three months.
Good evening from London. I'm Hala Gorani. Police have identified now all three assailants in Saturday's attack and they have named two of them.
On the left, a well-known character, Khuram Shahzad Butt, a British citizen, born in Pakistan, who's even been in television documentaries. On
the right, Rachid Redouane, who police say, claimed to be Moroccan and Libyan and not known by authorities, we understand.
Police are holding 11 people, following arrests in two locations. A 12th person arrested Sunday has been released. Authorities say they don't
believe there any additional attackers at large.
The terrorist threat level remains at severe as new security measures are being introduced, and those include extra barriers installed on bridges.
You see it there. Didn't happen after the Westminster attack, but it's happening now.
The prime minister, Theresa May, called for a renewed crackdown on terrorism, online and on the street. It was a harsher message than the one
she had delivered after the attacks in Manchester.
Theresa May warned there has been far too much acceptance of extremism. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: But as the threat evolves, our response must do so too. We cannot go on as we are. Enough
We must do more, much more, to take on and to defeat the evil ideology of Islamist extremism that preaches hatred, sows division and promotes
It is an ideology that promotes a false choice between our Western values of freedom, democracy and human rights and the religion of Islam. It is a
perversion of Islam and a perversion of the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank is learning more about the attackers.
All right. Let's talk about first Khuram Butt, well known.
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well known, 27 years old, born in Pakistan, came to the UK. And at certain point became influenced by the
British extremist group, al-Muhajiroun. That's a group that supports ISIS. You see him on the left-hand side of the screen there.
How do we know that he joined this group? Well, our very own Sandi Sidhu, a CNN reporter, spent 2014, 2015, 2016 reporting on this group and met him
several times while she was reporting on the group, describing him as quiet, spoken, somebody that led the proselytizing that this group did to
others, but somebody who was very committed to the cause, Hala.
He's also appeared in a Channel 4 documentary, if you can believe that, Jihadi Next Door. You see video of this documentary.
GORANI: That's him there in the foreground.
CRUICKSHANK: There he is right there with the black flag, a black jihadi style flag just before that video - in the actual video, you can hear that
one of the preachers there say that they want to unfurl that jihadi flag on the top of 10 Downing Street. This is in Regents Park in London, just
outside Regents Park mosque.
This is a very visible manifestation of radicalization. He was on the radar screen of British security services, of the police. And so, there
are a lot of questions now from the Muslim community who are saying, we warned you about this guy again and again and again.
We warned you about this group again and again and again. Why didn't you go after them? Well, they went after the leader of the group, Anjem
Choudary. They arrested him.
GORANI: He's in prison.
CRUICKSHANK: He's in jail.
GORANI: Let's be blunt here. This is a guy unfurling an ISIS flag in Regents Park in London. His neighbors, two of them that we know of at
least, went to the cops and said this guy is trying to - is radical.
One of them, in fact, said he tried to radicalize my child. He was thrown out of his local mosque for being too extreme. This doesn't look good for
authorities, right? You could not be a more public extremist than this guy.
CRUICKSHANK: You could not. Appearing in a Channel 4 - that's one of the main channels here - documentary, you could not be more public about your
One of the things we should point out, it wasn't actually an ISIS flag. It is a jihadi-style flag that they unfurled there in Regents Park, a sort of
a hardline symbol that they were putting out there.
But one of the interesting details we're learning, and this is from our colleagues, Sandi Sidhu, a CNN journalist who spent time with him a few
years ago, is he was very close to a notorious British ISIS operative, somebody called Abu Rumaysah, who left the UK in October 2014, joined ISIS.
And according to the belief of some, (INAUDIBLE) was featured in a ISIS execution video in January 2016. That's interesting because, if he has a
very close contact inside ISIS, someone who has moved up the hierarchy there in the group, could he have been in touch with him in the weeks
before the attack, could he have given encouragement directly from ISIS in Syria?
GORANI: Quick last question on that. ISIS has claimed responsibility, but has provided no evidence that they were connected directly.
Cruickshank: No evidence whatsoever, but -
GORANI: They've claimed a lot of things, including a Manila thing that ended up being a robbery.
CRUICKSHANK: That's absolutely right. But you have to say that there is a connection there now because this British fighter Abu Rumaysah, his status
is not known, but believed to be still out there. Was very close friends with this individual.
Could he have found a way to communicate with him in some way? Is there some kind of video that's going to come out, like we've seen in the past
after attacks. But a lot of questions for British authorities.
And just one thing to add. I think this is important. Mohammed Shafiq, who is the chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation here in the UK, has
just come out with a statement saying that on the day after that terrible killing of the British solider Lee Rigby in Woolwich in East London in May
2013, he was verbally accosted by this individual, Khuram Butt.
Butt called him murtad, which is essentially apostate, which the jihadis believe means you can be killed. Very, very strong language. And he was
very upset because Mohammed Shafiq, this Muslim community leader was speaking out against Anjem Choudary, the leader of the group.
And Mohammed Shafiq saying, why didn't the Brits take action earlier to go after this group, al-Muhajiroun. And I and other CNN colleagues, we've on
many occasions interviewed this guy, Anjem Choudary, before he was jailed. He was very clear about his support for groups like Al Qaeda, groups like
ISIS, and he has really radicalized a generation of British extremists.
Half of all the terror plots in which British nationals had a role around the world and the UK have links to this group, al-Muhajiroun. Why weren't
they put out of business soon?
GORANI: Right, absolutely. Thanks very much. Very important question. Paul Cruickshank, thank you. The investigation is unfolding against a
politically charged backdrop of bitter dispute between the British prime minister, London's mayor and the president of the United States.
For his part, Mayor Sadiq Khan says his city is not getting the funds it needs to protect itself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SADIQ KHAN, MAYOR OF LONDON: We don't receive the right level of funding as a capital city we should receive. We receive half of the funds we
should be receiving, 170 million versus 370 million.
But also, as the capital city, we have other responsibilities from major events. There's a big cricket match today to state visits. Some welcome,
some less so.
But the fact is, as of yesterday seriously visits some, some less so. But the fact is we need to make sure that our police have the resources and
support they need. And as the mayor, my job is to make sure our city is safe.
And I will do my best as the mayor to be an advocate and a champion for our police to get the tools they need.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, Prime Minister Theresa May says London's mayor is doing a good job after President Trump launched two Twitter attacks against the
mayor. Here's the comment Mr. Trump took issue with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KHAN: Londoners will see an increased police presence today and over the course of the next few days. No reason to be alarmed. One of the things
that police and all of us need to do is make sure we're as safe as we possibly can be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. You will see increased police presence. There is no reason to be alarmed.
On Monday morning, President Trump wrote, "pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his "no reason to be alarmed"
statement. Mainstream media is working hard to sell it."
It follows an earlier tweet where the president misconstrued those comments when he urged Londoners not to be alarmed by extra security. The White
House deputy press secretary insisted that president, after all of this, after those tweets and everything he said about the mayor, was not trying
to pick a fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: I don't see that the president is picking a fight with the mayor on London. I think, again, the
president's point is something he said frankly back - gosh, it's been almost two years now, a year-and-a-half ago when the president talked about
how we have to be more committed to national security.
One of the reasons we have the travel ban here through that executive order is a focus on national security. That was the point he was trying to make.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That's the explanation from the White House. Nic Robertson, who is our international diplomatic editor, he's outside 10 Downing Street.
Stephen Collinson is a CNN White House reporter. He's in Washington for us.
[16:10:08] Stephen, I want to start with you. Why is the president spending so much time thinking about the mayor of London?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, "CNN POLITICS" SENIOR REPORTER: Good point. You would think, at the height of a terror attack as it was unfolding and in the
aftermath, he would be expressing solidarity and working out ways in which he can help the British.
But this is Donald Trump. This is - he is so different than any other kind of president we've ever seen. I think one thing to remember is that Donald
Trump doesn't necessarily see world events for what they are. He sees them for how they influence and how they affect him.
So, as soon as this attack starting unfolding, the weekend, he started tweeting about his travel ban. Then on Sunday and Monday, he went into
this attack against Sadiq Khan.
And the reason is he sees political advantage. He sees a chance to play to his base who like the idea of Donald Trump saying that terrorism is taking
place because of political correctness and political leaders around the world haven't been willing to call out Islam sufficiently.
So, that's the reason he's doing it. It's very interesting. He is a world leader, but he doesn't behave like one. He doesn't seem to have any
concept or even care how his remarks might go down over in the United Kingdom and as we've seen with some of his other comments elsewhere in the
GORANI: I guess that's what his supporters like. Nic Robertson, we heard from the Prime Minister Theresa May congratulating Sadiq Khan for a job
well done. That was after two tweets by Donald Trump criticizing Sadiq Khan. What do you make of that? Was she trying to make a point?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I think she is trying to put some political distance between herself and President Trump.
Look, she's come up for criticism in this election campaign and prior to it as well for a close association with President Trump being the first world
leader to go visit him in Washington. Seen together holding hands.
After that, there was that travel ban put in place or called for by President Trump. That resonated terribly here in Britain and it reflected
badly on the Prime Minister at that time.
Go back to just a couple of weeks ago - a week or so - last week even (INAUDIBLE) last week when President Trump announced he was withdrawing
from the climate change agreement.
Theresa May didn't sign a letter that the French, German and Italian prime ministers signed condemning or criticizing President Trump for doing this.
She was criticized by the leader of the opposition here, Jeremy Corbyn. He criticized her previously for saying that - Britain was surrendering its
security agenda to Donald Trump.
So, add on top of that when Donald Trump does this and Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the opposition, comes out again and says that President Trump
doesn't have the sense to understand how to grasp the nuance of what's going on here in Britain, Trump becomes part of the election campaign
that's being used against Theresa May.
She's being criticized by Jeremy Corbyn as well for the cuts on the police force here. So, this is part of the opposition's narrative. The
opposition being the Labour Party, Sadiq Khan being of the Labour Party, these tweets by President Trump are working against Prime Minister Theresa
Yet, Donald Trump has said that he supports Theresa May at this time, supports the British people. It's perhaps an unintended consequence of his
tweets that this could have an impact on what's becoming a close electoral race.
GORANI: And, Stephen, there were some reports suggesting that Donald Trump may have been considering a visit to the UK to show support with the
country after the attack. I take it that's off the table.
COLLINSON: Yes, there was some conversation about that on the Sunday talk shows in the US yesterday. That was fairly quickly shot down by White
House officials. You can imagine the thought in Theresa May's mind that the prospect of a visit from Donald Trump in the week of a British
But I think what Nic was saying there was right. Donald Trump has very little conception about how the things he says play outside the United
States. You saw after the NATO speech, the German Chancellor Angela Merkel come out and make statements critical of the United States, implicit
criticism of Trump, because she is facing election and she is facing candidates who are very critical of Donald Trump, much more critical than
she would like to be.
We saw Emmanuel Macron, the new French President, criticizing Trump over the climate issue. So, these leaders have got their own political things
to worry about. And Donald Trump, by pushing his own political agenda, is creating great political problems for them as they try and navigate this
very, very difficult relationship between their countries and the United States.
GORANI: And I found it interesting, Stephen, and Nic as well, in all the elections we have covered since Donald Trump was elected president, the
populist candidates have actually underperformed the polls.
[16:15:01] I mean, Stephen, maybe you have a thought on that as well. It seems as though perhaps the Trump presidency is harming populist political
candidates in Europe.
COLLINSON: Certainly. And I think there is a real disconnect between the philosophy that Donald Trump is advancing, this America first,
ultranationalist philosophy, which is calling really the US support for the West as it has been for the last 70 years into doubt and what people in
I mean, I was in Berlin very recently and people were seriously considering the state of Germany's relationship with the United States, and that's
something which would have been unheard of before the Trump presidency, even when there was angst between Germany and the United States and Europe
and the United States over the Iraq war.
No one was calling into question the basic assumptions of the post-World War II international consensus. That is taking place right now in Europe
and in the foreign policy establishment in the United States, and it's all because of Donald Trump.
GORANI: Stephen Collinson and Nic Robertson, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.
Still to come this hour, Theresa May says the Internet has become a safe space for terrorists and she is calling on tech companies to do more about
it. Is it realistic?
We'll be right back.
GORANI: Theresa May says much more needs to be done to tackle extremism in the wake of the attack on Saturday and the two others as well. The
president - the prime minister, I should say, is now calling out Internet companies.
She says they are giving extremist ideologies a place to breed and it is time governments band together to better regulate cyberspace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAY: I believe it is right that the UK is engaged in taking on and defeating groups like ISIS and their like around the world. It is in our
own national interest to do so and it is interest of the wider world.
But as our efforts to defeat them overseas are ever more successful, they're increasingly seeking to spread their poisonous ideology and to prey
on the weak and vulnerable in our own countries, inspiring them to commit acts of terror here at home.
They exploit the safe spaces of the Internet and social media and they exploit them in the real world too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Jim Killock joins me now. He is the executive director of Open Rights Group, which promotes the rights of free speech and privacy online.
Thanks for being with us.
How realistic is it to ask big tech giants to regulate this type of speech and close down accounts of known terrorist sympathizers?
JIM KILLOCK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, OPEN RIGHTS GROUP: Well, they do a lot of this already, so it is realistic to ask them to do something about it, but
I think we have to worry about exactly what Theresa May has in mind because she is asking them to automate the detection of this material and then
automatically remove it, and to fine those companies if they are not acting swiftly enough for the government's like.
[16:20:12] So, that could easily see content that's actually criticizing these people, but maybe using some of the same images being swept into the
same regime of deletion and censorship.
And I don't see any sign, at the moment, that they're involving judges or anybody independent. They're just asking the companies to start deleting
GORANI: But what's the solution then? What's the realistic solution to crack down a little bit more on some of these messages? But not just, I
mean, Islamic, you have hate groups on the far right who spread also quite reprehensible language, what do you - what is realistic then in your
opinion? Obviously, not an automated response.
KILLOCK: I think automated response is a bad. I mean, they can be done. They are just bad.
I think we have to think about - yes, I'm sure there is more that they can do to kind of look at this material, to work with government to identify
it. But we just have to make sure what they do is accountable essentially because, I think, they are not going to try to do that.
The other thing is, we have to remember that, companies will try to do this as cheaply as possible. And that's maybe one of the problems here.
Already, they use very strict rules that can be applied - done by people who are very low paid. They are not looking at context. They are just
kind of doing things.
We saw that on the Guardian a few weeks ago. And those rules can be pretty arbitrary. But as you say, there is no way that American companies are
going to want to suddenly sensor a lot of material that's essentially very similar to views which are seen as reprehensible perhaps, but nevertheless
legal within the USA.
So, I think this is very, very hard to tackle actually.
GORANI: And also, there is the other aspect which is, the more you close down these accounts, which is a good thing, I'm not saying it's a bad
thing, but the phenomenon then ends up breeding an underground kind of communication platform on apps like Telegram or these encrypted - end to
end encrypted - right?
So, you get a lot of those communications that happen anyway. They just happen somewhere else.
KILLOCK: Exactly. We have to remember, these people are dedicated to the form of evil that they want to pursue. So, if you move them off Facebook,
if you move them off Twitter or YouTube, they're going somewhere else, they will plot their evil somewhere else.
And that may even make it worse for the intelligence agencies because if they are hiding themselves even more effectively because they've been
chased off these platforms that do cooperate with law enforcement, they could end up with less information.
So, I think we've got to be really careful here. I feel that, to a certain extent, this just looks like something that can be done. The UK government
can complain to these companies and these companies will want to do something. And that makes everyone look good, but it doesn't actually
necessarily help you very much and doesn't necessarily deal with the problem.
You have to remember, these are people associated with countries that are in total chaos. And I'm not saying that's an easy thing to deal with.
Certainly not. But we can't expect countries that are effectively beyond the rule of law - if we leave those countries in that state, we're going to
get terrorism. It will come back to us.
So, we have to think a bit more broadly. And I do feel this is a little bit of a distraction technique.
GORANI: Jim Killock, thanks very much, the executive director of Open Rights Group. Thanks for being with us.
Fighting shock and utter disgust, more than 130 Muslim leaders here in the UK have signed a letter, saying they will not perform the traditional
Islamic burial prayer for the terrorists.
I want to bring in Imam Abdul Quddus Arif who joins us in the studio. Thanks for being with us.
ABDUL QUDDUS ARIF, IMAM: Thank you for having me.
GORANI: Did you sign that letter?
ARIF: I wasn't told about this letter.
GORANI: What do you make of it then? One hundred and thirty Imams and religious leaders have said these are not deserving, these individuals of
the traditional prayer.
ARIF: Well, first of all, let me start by saying that I condemn such atrocities. And being part of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community, there's no
such thing as these individuals being part of our religion. Terrorism has no religion.
So, if this case has happened where Imams have signed, I will support that. I don't think -
GORANI: In principle, you agree with that then.
ARIF: In principle, I agree with them. (INAUDIBLE) to their families as well, how they want to bury them. We can't really impede on their rights
GORANI: But an Imam or a religious leader has the right to say, look, I'm not going to perform this prayer.
ARIF: Yes, he has the right to say that.
GORANI: Now, to the wider question here, of course, this is the third attack in two-and-a-half months. And you heard the police perhaps today
say, well, some in the Muslim community, they need to speak up more, even though we've been reporting after Manchester and after this attack that
neighbors and sometimes even family members of those who committed the attack went to authorities. What's your reaction?
ARIF: So, the community that I belong to, it's a proven model how we work. The Ahmadiyya Muslim community has been here in London for the past
century, and not a single person has been radicalized, not a single person has committed such atrocities.
So, there must be something they're doing right. For example, from a very young age, we tell our children that you have to make a pledge of
allegiance to your country. So, you serve country, you serve your nation, and you serve your faith.
So, me as a Londoner, serving my faith, serving my - and loving my city are hand in hand and is part of my faith. So, this is - from the very
beginning, that's how we are brought up and is a proven model for why radicalization and terrorism does not happen within our community, the
Ahmadiyya Muslim community.
GORANI: But these terrorists, in fact, many of them, stop going to the mosque altogether. One of the suspects in the London Bridge attack had
been thrown out of his mosque for being too extreme.
So, in a way, this radicalization that happens outside the mosque, how do you address it in some people?
ARIF: So, I think social media has got a lot. I think you were discussing it before as well, has a huge role to play. I think social media companies
need to really crack down on certain accounts. And we just have to have a watchful eye.
I think the government, they should also play their part as well. For example, if someone they know is under - very suspicious, they should keep
an eye on him for more than -
GORANI: It's just a question of staff or they say we just don't have enough to monitor 23,000 potential -
ARIF: The government's main responsibility is what? To protect its citizens, to safeguard their rights. So, if we need to put more budget
into it, we should do that. But we cannot allow a suspicious person to walk free or just carry on doing his own activities.
If you have to put sanctions on that individual, you should do that. Whatever the government, it's best to do so. But it's important that these
measures are taken because always afterwards we have the case where we find authorities always say that that person was under watch.
Well, yes, he was under watch. Maybe the same should have been longer, maybe up to two years even to - it requires a lot of resources. But the
predominant thing is the government's responsibility is safeguarding its people.
GORANI: I see you have a T-shirt there, but I'm not sure what's written on it.
ARIF: So, this is a campaign that we were doing, today even at the vigil where hundreds of Muslims, they came down at the vigil.
GORANI: I am a Muslim. #IAmAMuslim. What's the purpose?
ARIF: So, it's basically ask me anything.
ARIF: So, they were standing in solidarity with all the Londoners. London is our city. We love it. Like I said, we love our city. We love our
faith as well. So, we're not apologetic about being Muslims either.
So, it was (INAUDIBLE) for the public to say that, you know, ask us about Islam if you have questions about it. It's a source for media -
GORANI: You're put in a position where essentially the Muslim community, you feel like you are forced into the position of having to explain over
and over and over again. We do not support terrorism, this is not our message, we do not support these acts. Does it get tiring after a while?
ARIF: It doesn't get tiring. It's an opportunity to explain once again what true Islam is.
ARIF: Coming together, showing solidarity as part of our faith as well as (INAUDIBLE). And it's nice when we go out into the street, it's a reaction
we get, we get people shaking our hands, we get people hugging us and saying that you guys are doing a wonderful job and you're going to have to
But it's those reactions that we really - we enjoy. And it was amazing tonight as well that when we - I've come literally from there. That's why
I might be a bit wet as well because it was raining.
But we were there in numbers. We had our love for all, hatred for none posters up. And we as the Ahmadiyya Muslim community, we really wanted to
show to the world, not in our name, as the mayor of London said as well.
Imam Abdul Quddus Arif, thank you so much for joining us on CNN. We appreciate your visit.
Coming up, London's defiant response. The city replaces scenes of violence with some tales of solidarity that we'll share with you. Do stay with us.
GORANI: Britain is coming to terms with the terrorist attack on its soil in as many months. Amid the horror of Saturday night, many stories of
bravery and solidarity are emerging, as is often the case after a tragedy. Fred Pleitgen has our story.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Meticulously looking for even the tiniest clues. Forensic workers comb
through the scene of Saturday's terror attack.
But just a few yards away, the city is getting back to its normal pace, commuters rushing to work, one of London's ways of defying the third act of
terrorism since April.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think, over the weekend, the coverage - and there are a number of people that talked about London as being determined. And I
think that's absolutely what we are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The English are used to it. It's something that we just - we've just come together at times like this and just carry on.
PLEITGEN: The terrorists plowed through London with a van on Saturday night hitting many people, killing at least seven.
On Monday, the grief and sorrow still very present, many stopping and laying flowers at the edge of a crime scene, some overcome with emotion.
There is more police on the streets for extra security, but otherwise the city is barely missing a beat.
(on-camera): There was incredible carnage here on London Bridge as the van apparently swerved from side to side trying to hit as many people as
possible. But only two days later, the bridge is open once again with people walking across enjoying the London skyline.
(voice-over): Defiance in the aftermath, defiance during the attack.
Romanian baker Florin Morariu is being hailed as a hero for hitting one of the attackers in the head with a basket to save people hiding in the store
he works at.
FLORIN MORARIU, BAKER: I have two basket, yes. So, I've got two basket, yes. One is give, yes, is no (INAUDIBLE) these guys, yes. Number two
basket is delivered on the face, yes.
PLEITGEN: You hit him in the face with a basket.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...take it with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take this. Take this, yes.
PLEITGEN: Florin Morariu also recorded the moments immediately afterwards, the chaos and the carnage. He says he doesn't feel like a hero.
MORARIU: It's normal. Maybe it's my father, maybe it's my brother in this moment, yes. It's possible help, help.
PLEITGEN: Keep calm and carry on, they say, in Britain, and that's exactly what London is doing, the residents and the tourists, appreciating their
city and its many attractions even more after a tough weekend.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, London.
GORANI: Well, a few hours ago, the London mayor Sadiq Khan led a minute of silence in memory of those killed during the attack. A vigil was held at
Potters Fields Park, close to the site of that rampage.
Let's go to our own Melissa Bell. She is there. Tell us a little bit about how this day - this tribute really unfolded today.
MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was remarkable, the crowds that were here, Hala, given the windy and rainy conditions which continue
And you can see just behind me the flowers that were laid by those who gathered here at 6 p.m. this evening London time, just shy of the 48-hour
mark since those shocking attacks on London Bridge, not very far away.
[16:30:01] We're right in front of Town Hall. This is Sadiq Khan's office. And his message to the crowd as he led that minute of silence really
reflected the view of so many people who turned up here, many of them British Muslims who've come to say not in my name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KHAN: This is our city. These are our values and this is our way of life. London will never be broken by terrorism. We will step up the fight
against extremism and we will defeat the terrorists. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELL: I am, he said, a proud and patriotic British Muslim. And he spoke directly to those attackers, saying you do not act in my name. And that
was really the sense of what so many people who turned up here today wanted to say a group of imams who cheered as they laid flowers of this makeshift
memorial just behind me.
Tomorrow, that minute of silence will be nationwide, Hala, as the entire country remembers those who died so tragically on Saturday night.
GORANI: And just ordinary people going to work for the first time today on Monday after the attack, especially those around the London Bridge area,
what are they saying about this new reality they've woken up to on the first day of the week.
BELL: I think there is this great sense of shock not just at what happened Saturday night, but as you've been saying, Hala, this new reality that
seems to be the one that everyone is trying to come to terms with, as difficult as that is, three terrorist attacks in three months. It is
simply not what Britain had become used to.
It had largely been spared these last two years the horrors that we've seen in Continental Europe. And I think there is at once that sense of
disbelief, but also that sense of unity, of solidarity, of coming together to bring another message of what London can represent.
And I think one of the things that I have heard over and over again is we've begun to hear about some of the names of those who've lost their
lives. They may come from all over the world - Canadians, Australians, French people, Germans have been victim in one way or another of this
attack, and it's a reminder really of all that London represents.
It's an extraordinarily cosmopolitan city, and I think that there is a tremendous amount of pride in the spirit really that's been shown since
those attacks, and in particular today as London went back to work, as London tried to go about its business, at once digested what had happened
and trying to come to terms with that dreadful new reality, but also I think trying to show that it is stronger in a sense of the hatred - of the
hatred that was demonstrated so tragically on London Bridge Saturday night, Hala.
GORANI: All right, Melissa. And tomorrow, of course, we'll be covering that tribute, that minute's silence across the country. Thank you.
Still to come. Airlines have suspended flights to Qatar as the diplomatic rift between neighbors threatens the stability of the Gulf region. That's
next. Richard Quest joins me.
[16:40:08] GORANI: Six countries, including Saudi Arabia, and Egypt have cut diplomatic with Qatar. They accuse the Gulf state of supporting
terrorism and destabilizing the region.
Qatar said the move was unjustified, but the repercussions are already being felt. All transport routes by land, air, and sea into Qatar have
And you can see it on the map there. Qatar is not a huge country, to say the least. The Dubai's Emirate and Abu Dhabi's Etihad Airways are
suspending flights to and from Doha.
Some residents in Qatar have begun stocking up on food as the crisis escalates. A third of the country's food imports come from Saudi Arabia
and the UAE. That will end now.
Air travelers could face significant disruption across the Gulf region. Richard Quest joins me now from Cancun, Mexico, where airline bosses are
gathered for a major industry event.
Just sitting in for you for the day. Richard, you had an opportunity to speak with Qatar Airways, the CEO, off-camera. What did he tell you about
this? This has to be terrible news for his industry.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It is. He described it as a crisis. And he is in Egypt on his way back to his
country because the reality is - look, I'm here with IATA, which is the international aviation body for all airlines.
And this has taken people completely by storm. And the significance, Hala, is that the three airlines that are most affected - Qatar Airways, Etihad
and Emirates - they are also three of the largest crossover airlines in the world at the moment.
And so, not only now does Qatar Airways have to route itself different ways to get to and from Doha, but also it is going to be very difficult for
those three lines to interact, to actually fly between each other's countries, and I think you're looking at a sizable disruption of aviation,
certainly in that part of the world for the foreseeable future.
Here at IATA in Cancun, people are absolutely astounded by what's taken place.
GORANI: Right. I mean, this is going to hurt Qatar Airways more than its competition in the Gulf, right? Because Qatar Airways is not going to able
to fly any of these countries that have cut diplomatic ties with Doha.
And that has to - I mean, I don't know exactly what percentage of its market that is, but it would have to be a huge chunk of it.
QUEST: It is. That inter-GCC travel, basically Qatar Airways, like all the Gulf carriers, is a sixth freedom carrier. The passengers come in, the
passengers go out to different parts of the world.
But Qatar also connects people through the Gulf on to other parts of the world. So, yes, I would expect, coming on top of the laptop ban, which is
affecting its US routes very badly indeed, I would expect this to have a dramatic effect.
Quite simply, it's not going to go out of business, Qatar Airways, but I would certainly expect it to go into heavy losses and need much government
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, Richard Quest. And we'll see you back very soon on Quest Means Business.
Now, the move to isolate Qatar could have far-reaching repercussions. Qatar is home to the largest American military base in the Middle East and
it is set to host the World Cup in 2022.
Mahjoob Zweiri is professor of Middle East politics at Qatar University and he joins me from Doha, the Qatari capital. What's really behind this?
What's really behind this GCC move, do you think?
MAHJOOB ZWEIRI, PROFESSOR OF MIDDLE EAST POLITICS, QATAR UNIVERSITY: I think there was a major political shift post what's so-called Arab Spring,
where every country in GCC has chosen different position.
And that positioning their political side, this contributes to this kind of fragmentation, of division on where things should go in the region.
It is a ramification. It is an important ramification of what happens in the region post-2010 present. And I think that's the reason.
What we see today is the second chapter of this crisis that started in 2014, lasted for eight months. And this is the second chapter of it, where
basically Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates has chosen to maintain the status quo in the region, maintaining the situation in Egypt, maintaining
the situation in Yemen.
However, Qatar has chosen a different choice. And at least according to their statesmen, they want to support the willing of people in different
GORANI: Sorry to jump in there. The hay that broken the camel's back was when the Emir of Qatar was quoted as saying - by the way, they then claimed
that the state news website was hacked - that Iran shouldn't necessarily be isolated. Paraphrasing what he said.
And that to Saudi Arabia was unacceptable. It's clear.
[16:45:10] ZWEIRI: Again, the issue of hacking the news agency, that's the story which is -according to the sources in Doha, it's been manufactured to
cause all of this crisis.
Qatar does not deny that it as a diplomatic relation with Iran. However, the relation, as an observer, I see as not developing since 2010 because of
the situation in Syria.
If you look at the relation, for example, between United Arab Emirates and Iran, it's more progress economically and politically than Doha/Tehran.
And still, the relation, no one asks, for example, United Arab Emirates to cut the relation with Tehran. No one asks, for example, Oman to do so.
I think the issue of Iran and the whole story here is being added just to lead to more pressure on Qatar politically because, as an expert in the
region, the relation has not developed a lot between Doha and Tehran in the last five, six years.
GORANI: But here's the thing, though, the other countries can afford to cut ties with Qatar. Qatar can't afford not to have ties with the other
countries. It cannot be isolated like this.
It wants to host the World Cup. It wants to have a voice on the world stage. It doesn't have a choice here, but to bow to the pressure, right?
ZWEIRI: Again, as an observer, this is the first day of the crisis. I think - I assume, according to what I read in the last 13, 14 hours, that
there was all plan Bs for a lot of items according to the food supply, for the contractors, there is a lot of preparation.
They learned the lesson from 2014 crisis. Even in the street, I was just - came back from one of the malls. I didn't see any of the images, for
example, broadcast in social media. People, they are shopping because it is Ramadan and people normally choose specific hours to shop, which
basically - it shows that there is a traffic.
GORANI: So, there is no panic is what you're saying? These images on social media misrepresent what's going on.
ZWEIRI: I have not seen - I have not seen it myself. I went out. I just came back from actually doing my shopping for my family. I haven't seen
such thing on at least two of the malls I was there.
So, I think this tells me -
GORANI: I'm glad you cleared that up. I'm glad you cleared that up. We have seen these images, but you're right, it is Ramadan, and after all,
people stock up on food when they break their fast.
ZWEIRI: As you know, Hala, sometimes people, they choose the time before Iftar - they want to pick everything for after Iftar which caused a lot of
people crowding on malls and supermarkets.
GORANI: And let's talk again, maybe in a few days and see how the reaction has developed or evolved among ordinary Qataris and residents of Qatar.
ZWEIRI: We'll keep our eyes on the situation.
GORANI: Absolutely. Thank you, Mahjoob Zweiri of Qatar University.
ZWEIRI: My pleasure, Hala.
GORANI: Donald Trump is using the London terror attack to drum up support for his executive order on immigration, affecting several mostly-Muslim
And one of his tweets this Monday, Mr. Trump referred to the order of the travel ban. Now, that appears to contradict his own administration, which
said many times this is not a ban, but a temporary pause among other names and argued that it does not target Muslims.
Well, a few hours ago, the White House defended the president's latest tweets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: I don't think the president cares what you call it, whether you call it a ban, whether you call it a restriction. He cares that we call it
national security and that we take steps to protect the people of this country.
It's real simple. Everybody wants to get into the labels and the semantics of it, but the bottom line is, he's trying to protect the citizens of this
country. The danger is extremely clear. The law is very clear. And the nature of this executive order is very clear. And the president's priority
in protecting the people is very clear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the deputy press secretary. Ariane de Vogue is in Washington. So, Ariane, we know several courts have struck
down this travel ban. I mean, I am not sure. Maybe we can call it that, now that the president himself calls it that.
How will this affect the administration's appeal to the Supreme Court?
ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: It will definitely complicate the job of the legal challengers, right? Because below the challengers
have said, look, we won and we won because we could show that this was an intent to ban Muslims.
And what did they use for their justification? They used campaign statements, right? They used what the president said during the campaign.
[16:50:01] So, now, you have the Department of Justice lawyers and you have these new tweets, and the Department of Justice lawyers, they have bent
over backwards to say, look, you have got to disregard those campaign statements, disregard the tweets, look just at what the ban is.
And on its face, they say, it's religiously neutral and it targets national security. Plus, they say, we've come up with this revised ban. It's
different than the ban that was first put out.
So, what did these tweets do at the end of the day. The president, he sort of dismisses the difference, right, between those two bans and also he kind
of says that his lawyers are simply making politically correct statements to please the courts.
So, that can't be good for the Department of Justice lawyers. And at the end of the day, you ask will it matter? And that depends if the justices
of the Supreme Court choose to look at these statements, the campaign statements, the tweets, and if they choose to take those into
GORANI: But how is this going to change the way the Justice Department lawyers are going to argue this case with the Supreme Court because it's
almost - I mean, it's almost an impossible task to argue it's not a ban when the president himself several times tweets, after he's elected, it is
DE VOGUE: Well, the president can say, look, it's a travel ban. What he can't say is that it's a Muslim ban.
But I'll tell you, what's going on right now is the challengers have a deadline from the Supreme Court and they have to reply to - send their
reply briefs and they've already gone on Twitter because now everybody seems to use Twitter, and they're going to - and they've said, look, we're
going to use these tweets against him because what they suggest is that the tweets show he's in bad faith.
He keeps saying that there is a national security justification for this. But they say that, in fact, it's a veiled attack on Muslims. And that's
why they think they'll their case before the Supreme Court.
GORANI: Ariane de Vogue, thanks very much, our Supreme Court correspondent.
Coming up, we're learning more about those who lost their lives or got hurt in the London attack. We'll bring you their stories next.
GORANI: There was some heroism amid the horror. Witnesses to the London attack say quick action by police saved lives. Liam Connell, who was at a
nearby bar when the chaos broke out, had this to say about them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIAM CONNELL, EYEWITNESS: (INAUDIBLE) and it wasn't actually until we got up that I kind of realized how bad it was because my friends told me that
there was someone behind us too that had actually been outside.
GORANI: And what did you see when you finally left the bar?
CONNELL: We just kind of ran. I mean, the police were there the whole way. They helped us the whole way. They were there. And everyone was
saying thank you to them. Everyone was so, so grateful to them.
Even though everyone wanted to leave (INAUDIBLE) after all these police with guns were around, no one panicked. No one was pushing or shoving.
Everyone was just (INAUDIBLE) to leave almost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:55:13] GORANI: Seven people were killed, 48 injured in the attack. Erin McLaughlin has some of their stories.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're beginning to learn more about some of the victims killed that horrific night.
Chrissy Archibald is the first to be named, a Canadian national, who moved to Europe to be with her fiance. She helped a homeless. She was there
with her fiance on the London Bridge when the terrorist van struck and killed her. The family releasing a statement saying she was beautiful and
loving. She would never have understood the kind of callous cruelty that claim her life.
We're also hearing of heroic acts that night. Journalist Geoff Ho was at a restaurant in the Borough Market when the assailant arrived. He intervened
to help a bounced when he was stabbed by one of the terrorists in the neck.
Social media footage shows him calmly leaving the scene to seek medical help, bleeding from his neck. We understand from the newspaper that he
works for that he's OK.
We're also hearing appeals for help. Maureen Vincent (ph) is a French national. She was at the Borough Market as well, badly wounded by the
terrorists, brought here to the King's College Hospital. Doctors say that her injuries are so sever, it will take her some 6 to 12 months to fully
recover, one of the many lives forever altered that tragic night.
Erin McLaughlin, CNN, London.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. I'll see you tomorrow. Then news continues on CNN.