Return to Transcripts main page


PM May Fights To Hold On To Power; Downing Street Won't Confirm If Queen's Speech Delayed; DUP Rises From Minor Player To Kingmaker; Report: Over 900 Arrested In Russia Demonstrations; White House: Travel Ban Will Be Upheld By Supreme Court; White House: Attorney General Sessions Could Invoke Executive Privilege; President Macron's Party Set To Win Huge Majority; Political Turmoil As Brexit Talks On The Horizon. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired June 12, 2017 - 15:00:00   ET





HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN INTERNATIONAL GUEST ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones sitting in for Hala Gorani. We are live from CNN London and


Good evening and welcome to you. This was the Monday where Theresa May hoped to get to work leading a big conservative majority into a new era,

but voters had other ideas instead she is scrambling to save her job.

In the last few hours, she has been meeting with her back benches here in London looking to shore up support as she tries to build up a majority to


Those talks could mean the delay of the queen speech, and that speech lays out the next parliament's agenda. But all of this political confusion

comes of course with crucial Brexit talks just over the horizon. They are supposed to begin next Monday.

Let's go live now to Westminster. Melissa Bell is outside 10 Downing Street for us. Melissa, Theresa May will be clinging on for her political

life and she will have needed to have pitch -- done the pitch of her life in front of her back benches in that 1922 Committee just a few hours ago.

How did it go?

MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it seemed to have gone remarkably well, Hannah. We watched her leave for the meeting and we

watched her come back about 15 minutes ago looking much more relieved as she returned to Downing Street than she had when she set off for this

crucial meeting.

As you say it was essential that she convince first of all the members of her own party, and you have to remember that there is a great deal of anger

within her own ranks. From all that what we are hearing since it ended, she appears to have given a good performance.

She appears to have appeared contrite enough and I think that was essential to have given assurances on the fact that some of the measures that have

been outlined in the manifesto, and clearly rejected by the British people would be rethought.

Then there is the question of Brexit, and before she went off to that meeting, she held a cabinet meeting here at number 10, the first held since

the election with her newly formed cabinet, many of them reappointed after the election.

We heard -- we've been hearing from Ruth Davidson, one woman who is much more important within the Conservative Party than she was before since she

leaves the Scottish conservatives and now represents 12 MPs, who are crucial to Theresa May's hopes of cobbling together a minority government

over the court of the next few days.

And she said that she had understood from her meeting with Theresa May that the approach to a hard Brexit would be rethought and I think that is really

the conclusion of today that Theresa May has insured her short-term political survival.

And that a soft Brexit, the very thing that had been -- the hard Brexit that had been the thing that Theresa May had been hoping to ensure by

consolidating the majority is now definitely off the cards with a soft Brexit now looking almost certain to be what the government if it manages

to secure that working majority will work towards.

JONES: OK, so she may have won the support of her parliamentarians, but we still don't know about the queen's speech and this is what the government

delivers to the outline the entire legislative agenda for the parliament ahead. We are hearing now that the queen speech might be pared back in

terms of the pomp and grandeur of it, but also we don't when it's going to be.

BELL: That's right. Downing Street (inaudible) refused to confirm that it would go ahead next Monday, and you're right, Hannah, this 1922 Committee

meeting was a first step for Theresa May, a crucial first step, but a first step nonetheless. Now she really has to ensure that those talks with the

DUP, the ultra-unionists lead to that much needed deal.

The conference and the supply deals are just short of the formal coalition, something that will ensure that they voted together on crucial matters, for

instance, no confidence measures but also budgetary measures.

That is her only hope of ensuring she gets the minority government, ensuring that she has majority and that prevents Jeremy Corbyn from having

his turn trying to cobble one together. Very much will depend on another meeting to take place here today.

[15:05:07]Theresa May has an incredibly busy schedule as you can imagine. Tomorrow the leader of the DUP will be here for crucial talks and we'll

have an idea whether that crucial second step. That is the deal with the DUP has indeed been cemented.

And it is only once that it's happened, Hannah, that the key talks about what can go into the key speech since after all this is about announcing

what the government intends to push through from a legislative point of view in the coming session.

It's only once that deal has been cemented that really the contents of the queen's speech can be decided, hence the delay, which has yet to be

confirmed. But as I say, no confirmation that it would go ahead next Monday, and I think it is unlikely that it will.

JONES: All right, Melissa Bell live for us on Downing Street. Melissa, thank you.

Well, from relative obscurity, the Democratic Unionist Party, DUP, are now potential kingmakers in a new Theresa May government. Let's go live to

Belfast. I'm joined by the DUP's Nelson McCausland. He is a former minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly. Sir, welcome to the program.

Thank you for joining us.


JONES: I say relative obscurity in the introduction to you there. I should say that that's on an international scale (inaudible) Northern

Ireland politics itself, but as far as this deal is concerned with the Conservative Party in Westminster. Is it on the table definitely, and what

are your conditions for any kind of deal to go through?

MCCAUSLAND: Well, the announcements that have been made so far by both Theresa May and the leader of the Democratic Unionist Party, Arlene Foster,

their statements have been very positive, and encouraging, and I would hope that by tomorrow, we'd know that a deal had been indeed agreed.

And that there was an understanding between the two parties, so that the ten members of the DUP, who are in the Westminster parliament will be able

to give their support to Theresa May.

JONES: We did have mixed messages --

MCCAUSLAND: And you know that --

JONES: My apologies, sir, we did have these mixed messages over the weekend where on the one hand the government in Westminster was saying that

a deal had been at least an outline deal had been agreed upon, and then the DUP said, well, actually, no we have not reached any agreement yet. Are

you effectively holding Theresa May and the Conservative Party to ransom?

MCCAUSLAND: Well, I think in many political proofs, there are misunderstandings, and that is the case of the weekend, but it is fairly

clear now that there will be a meeting between Theresa May and Arlene Foster tomorrow, and then hopefully the deal between the two, the

understanding that has been reached and will be announced.

JONES: The DUP, your party, anti-abortion, anti-same-sex marriage, climate change denials, are you surprised at all that many people in Westminster

and across the U.K. at large are concerned about a deal between the Tory's and your party?

MCCAUSLAND: Well, the DUP is generally a socially conservative party, and the difference of opinion on some matters such as climate change, but on

other issues there would be unanimity and it is socially conservative. But there are people within Theresa May's own party, and the back benchers who

are also socially conservative.

And at the end of the day, those are not matters that will arise in course of this conversation because in Northern Ireland those matters are devolved

from Westminster down to the Northern Ireland Assembly. They are dealt with here in Belfast, and therefore they wouldn't arise in the course of

these discussions.

JONES: They are devolved issues, sir, and we of course understand that, sir, but they are still broad principles, which will leave many people

across the United Kingdom very, very uncomfortable about any kind of deal and my question to you though is about Brexit. Is your argument with the

Tory Party to say that we want a seat at the negotiating table when it comes to Brexit?

MCCAUSLAND: Well, first of all, as regards and public opinion, there is a wide range of opinion on social issues. Some people are more liberal, some

are more conservative and it is a free society, and therefore there are different opinions, and that is true of the people within Theresa May's own


And as regards to the discussions and the debate regarding the entry or the exit from the European Union, and as regards the process of that, I'm not

aware of what the details are of that discussion. I think it will be after that meeting tomorrow that those would be announced.

I'm not aware of what requirements or conditions have been set by Arlene Foster, but it is important for Northern Ireland how the United Kingdom

leaves the European Union.

The DUP was a Brexit party. It believed in leaving the European Union and reclaiming the sovereignty back to the United Kingdom, but we do have a

situation whereby there is a land border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic.

[15:10:11]And therefore, it is important because people live on one side of the border perhaps and then yet work on the other or there is moving

backwards and forwards.

There would be all sorts of issues that arise at that border, and helpful for people there if we have more (inaudible) I suppose easy passage across

the border as possible.

JONES: Yes, and we should just remind our viewers, of course, that the reason we are talking about the land border is because in the event of a

Brexit when the U.K. leaves the European Union, the only land border then with the U.K. and the E.U. would have between the Northern Ireland the

Republic of Ireland. Unfortunately, we have to leave it there, sir, but thank you very much indeed.

MCCAUSLAND: Thank you.

JONES: Nelson McCausland there live for us there in Belfast. Thank you.

Now to other news, hundreds of people have been arrested in Russia, including leading opposition figure, Alexey Navalny. He had been planning

to lead a parade of anti-corruption protesters down one of Moscow's main streets.

It was one of several demonstrations scheduled in cities across the country. Our Diana Magnay was in St. Petersburg and brings us this look

inside a Russian protest.


DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If the demonstration was about start 10 minutes ago, and the organizers of Russia said that anyone who was here for

the protest would be arrested and so now there are police moving in clearly to do just that.

That chant means you will not detail everybody. They have been funneling some people who they have arrested out from the crowds, but as you can see,

there are so many more who are determined to keep protesting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Our prime minister's house there is a big, big (inaudible) which has a special duck house in the middle of

it. So this has become a symbol of how easily (inaudible) of his corruption.

MAGNAY: Police seemed to have got their system of detaining people pretty well organized. Funneling people out of the square, and then sending in

riot police back in. They had various buses on standby. We have already seen two or three leave filled with people who have been detained.

But what's interesting is when I spoke to people before about whether they were nervous, they said, what are they going to do? They are going to

arrest us for three or four hours and then they'll let us go.


JONES: And Diana Magnay joins me now live from St. Petersburg. Diana, it looks from your report there like this police crackdown has been pretty

effective, but are they thinking that it is the start of more to come, especially, of course, with this main opposition leader, the protest

ringleader, Alexey Navalny also among those detained?

MAGNAY: Yes, there's already been one large protest nationwide back in March. This was really a rerun of that. Alexey Navalny called for a

second round of protest and he will probably call for more. Perhaps today, there was a slightly smaller turnout. It is hard to tell from the numbers.

But the outcome for many hundreds of demonstrators was the same, and that was arrest. Now Alexey Navalny is clearly trying to build up some kind of

momentum ahead of his presidential bid. He wants to be on the ballot for next year's presidential election. They happen in March.

At the moment it's unclear whether he will be allowed to stand and that is because of some really fairly spurious embezzlement charges that he has

been convicted of here, and you cannot run for presidency or public office if you have a conviction, but his lawyers are trying to get around that.

And of course, these protests are trying to build public support and legitimacy for his campaign bid or indeed make it appear and so if the

kremlin blocks it, they are illegitimate in doing that.

So he will certainly be trying to build on the momentum that has begun in the last two months around his YouTube campaign.

JONES: Just briefly, Diana, as well, will the kremlin care about the fact that so much of the spotlight from the rest of the world has been put on

Russia in not the best light one might argue?

MAGNAY: Well, we have already heard from the White House Sean Spicer condemning the arrest of peaceful demonstrators. What I would say having

been there today, and talking to my colleagues who were in Moscow. You know, I have seen more heavy handed police activity against peaceful

demonstrators in other countries.

[15:15:01]This was extremely orderly even if it was mass detentions and those people who were detained will face just a few hours or overnight in

the detention centers. It won't be comfortable, but it is what it is, and they may face administrative fines.

It's probably not more than that, and would imagine that the kremlin if they say anything about the external comments would say that what they do

most of the time on that front which is that we don't interfere in other country's affair, and so don't interfere in ours -- Hannah.

JONES: Diana Magnay live for us in St. Petersburg. Thank you.

Still to come on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW, tonight, a court has ruled against U.S. President Trump's travel ban order. We will bring you the latest

details live from Washington.

And from fledgling party to potentially overwhelming majority rule. How Emmanuel Macron's homage is making French history.


JONES: Welcome back to program. A U.S. Appeals Court has delivered a stinging ruling against President Trump's revised travel ban order citing

his own tweets as part of the decision. Here is what the White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer had to say about the decision not too long ago.


SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We are currently reviewing that opinion. I think that we can all attest that these are very dangerous

times, and we need every available tool at our disposal to prevent terrorists from entering the United States committing acts of bloodshed and


We continue to be confident that the president's executive order to protect this country is fully lawful and ultimately will be upheld by the Supreme



JONES: Joining me now from Washington to talk more about the ruling, White House reporter, Jeremy Diamond and U.S. justice reporter, Laura Jarrett.

Good to see both of you. Laura, to you first, so it's been upheld again this appeal on the travel ban. Where do they go next?

LAURA JARRETT, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: The next stop is the Supreme Court, Hannah. This is now a second federal court that has found that this travel

ban cannot stand, but they are doing it on slightly different grounds and others have done before.

In the past, for instance, the Fourth Circuit of Appeals has looked at the constitutional grounds and had said it appeared as though the president was

discriminating against Muslims on the basis of their religion.

But this time, the court is looking at the statutory grounds and saying the president has broad authority under immigration laws to bar immigrants from

coming into the country, but he has to show why he needs it on national security grounds and he can't do it in a way that discriminates on the

basis of nationality.

GORANI: And Jeremy, we heard from Sean Spicer just not long ago saying that they were confident to take it to the Supreme Court and it would all

go through eventually, but do they have to water down the travel ban so much that it is not looking like the original ban?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, as of now, you know, they are proceeding with their case that is going to go before the Supreme

Court, which is essentially defending the revised travel ban, that is the second executive order that the president signed.

[15:20:02]Which of course we know the president himself has taken to Twitter to decry that second revised order, which he himself signed as a

watered down version that essentially wouldn't accomplish as much as the first version calling it politically correct revision.

So you know, it's going to be interesting to see how exactly the administration defends this particularly in light of the president's

tweets. As we know already in this decision released today and others before it, the courts and the attorneys arguing against the administration

have repeatedly cited the president's tweets as a way of undermining the administration's case in this.

And now with the president once again in the last few weeks tweeting about this revised order calling it a watered down version of the first one, it

is likely those problems will resurface again as this heads to the Supreme Court.

JONES: OK, well, the other story we have to talk about is Jeff Sessions. Laura, back to you, as our justice reporter. The attorney general, Jeff

Sessions, has confirmed now that he is going to testify. It is going to happen tomorrow, and it will be in public. He was not invited, so why is

he doing it?

JARRETT: He appears to really want to tell his story to the American public. There was this whole back and forth over the weekend about will he

or won't he appear in public, and he says today that he wants to get his story out there.

I think in light of James Comey's, the fired FBI director's testimony last week. There were a lot of questions about Session's role in his firing,

and also certain meetings with the president in particular one back in February where to hear Comey tell it, Sessions left him alone with the


And Comey later told Sessions that was not OK, and it is inappropriate, and it could not happen again. And so I think you might hear Sessions try to

take this on directly, and to try to clear up the record at least from his perspective.

JONES: And there has been lots of confusion differing views on whether the president has full confidence in his attorney general. Jeremy, one would

imagine the White House paying very close attention to what goes on in the Senate Intelligence Committee tomorrow.

DIAMOND: Yes, that's for sure. You know, it is a big question as far as what exactly Jeff Sessions will say tomorrow, how far he will be willing to

in varying aspects of his testimony. You know, we know last week the White House two days in a row declined to say whether the president had

confidence in Jeff Sessions before ultimately saying that the president has confidence in his full cabinet.

We saw Sessions today with the president during a full cabinet meeting. Nothing appeared awry during that meeting, of course, that public meeting,

but you know, questions as far as how far Sessions can go tomorrow.

You know, the White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer today suggesting that Sessions might invoke executive privilege on conversations between himself

and the president depending on the scope of the questions that he is asked.

So not closing the door on that possibility which could of course very much alter how far we hear, how much we hear from Sessions during his testimony

tomorrow particularly as he is asked about conversations between himself and the president.

There were reports that Sessions had offered to resign in recent weeks, and of course, over conversations concerning the investigation into potential

ties between the campaign and Russia.

JONES: Yes. All eyes will be on that testimony, and of course, we should remind our viewers as well that CNN will be covering full testimony from

2:00 p.m. Eastern time that's 7 p.m. here in London. Jeremy Diamond and Laura Jarrett, thanks very much indeed.

Now it didn't even exist a year and a half ago, but now French President Emmanuel Macron's political party (inaudible) looks set to control France's

political future. It is on track to secure an overwhelming majority of the seats in parliament. Our Jim Bittermann reports from Paris.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hannah, it was a day of licking of wounds and celebrating. The celebrating first among

those who supported President Emmanuel Macron and his (inaudible) movement. They have managed to come up with legislative scores that indicate they in

the second round of the elections here, will win somewhere between 400 and 455 seats in the 577 seat parliament.

A vast majority that will allow Macron to pretty much impose the kinds of economic reforms that he has been talking about with no opposition at all

except perhaps what might come from the streets.

And those who are licking their wounds were those in the traditional parties. For instance, the Socialist Party president, who was defeated in

the first round elections as well as the presidential candidate who was also defeated in the first round of the elections.

In all, the Socialists stand to lose 200 seats in the parliament they once held a majority. So Emmanuel Macron comes out of the elections in the

first round any indication, in a very, very strong position in the second round, and perhaps one of the strongest leaders in Europe, and one of the

most innovative.

He created this movement just 14 months ago from absolutely nothing, and now he controls the presidency, and the French parliament -- Hannah.

[15:25:07]JONES: Jim Bittermann there. France will, of course, be set to take a leading role in the Brexit talks that are scheduled to begin just

next week.

But given the political turmoil here in the U.K., there are now big questions about whether that date might actually be pushed back. Nina Dos

Santos is live in Strasburg for us, which is of course the seat of the European Parliament.

Nina, what are the Europeans making of everything at the moment? They have on the one hand this new found instability in France, but this turmoil here

in the U.K. What's the view of the U.K. from the E.U.?

NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN MONEY EUROPE EDITOR: Well, there is conflicted feelings this evening. On the one hand, Hannah, they are extremely content

so somebody who is so pro-Europe take such a strong showing at the legislative elections on the first round in France, I'm talking, of course,

about the newly elected president of France, Emmanuel Macron, who when he was elected the French president didn't put (inaudible), which is the

French national anthem.

He actually rode on to the stage using the European Union anthem, which (inaudible) that was the strongest signal yet that the E.U. has a real

friend and ally in a turbulent time like this with they have Brexit to contend with.

But further behind the scenes, people are getting very worried about these deadlines. These are the Brexit slipping, the disarray that seems to be

reigning supreme in Downing Street these days is being watched very closely from here.

Some people are saying, well, look to the U.K., which is ready to borrow one of Theresa May's catch phrases here that you know well, Hannah, "get on

with the job." But of course, they need to see that the U.K. does have a strong and stable government.

They're going to be continuing to negotiate the same counter parties as they embarked upon these two years of a complex talks. On the other hand,

you also have some people who say, well, Britain (inaudible) should be given the space that it needs to reflect upon Brexit, and what type of

Brexit it wants whether it is a hard one or the softer tone now that Theresa May's hand has weakened.

One of the people who espouses that view is Ana Maria Gomez from Portugal. I spoke to her just moments ago.


ANA GOMES, PORTUGUESE SOCIALIST PARTY MP: I can imagine it could lead to a postponement and I would be one of the people saying that we should accept

that postponement because we should accept that indeed Britain at this moment without even a government with prospects of negotiating is in their

position to sack this negotiations.

But that could actually lead to even a longer postponement and I would anticipate if indeed by the end of the year or early next year, we will

have elections in Britain, which is in my opinion the most likely scenario.


DOS SANTOS: Now in the meantime, Hannah, the clock is ticking. The Brexit negotiations are set to take place in less than seven days from now,

and actually, seven days and a few hours, and six days and a few hours if you actually count the number of hours.

And over here, they don't know whether those negotiations formally are going to start on the date they were supposed until the 19th of June. What

we do know is that as per the treaties and law that govern the E.U., the U.K. has now formally tendered its notice to leave, it did so triggering

Article 50 at the end of March.

So there is a two-year window to get on with this job, otherwise the U.K. could find itself out on the street, and outside of the block. So there is

some concern here about these deadlines slipping, but for the moment, they are finely tuned and listening into what Theresa May's gradually forming

government has to say and how long it's going to be in power.

And something they are going to be paying close attention is Theresa May's meeting with Emmanuel Macron, which is set to happen tomorrow evening. In

the past, Theresa May has aides saying that she has a good relationship with Emmanuel Macron, especially when she got a chance to speak to him on

the sidelines of the G7 Summit.

They did not discuss the issue of Brexit on the G7. They might have got on talking about counterterrorism and security cooperation, but when it comes

to Brexit, it's hardly likely to be a big ally first if anything he may play hardball and she better be ready for it -- Hannah.

JONES: Yes. Six or seven days to get ready for it as well. Nina Dos Santos live for us in Strasburg. Thank you.

Coming up on the program, what next then for Theresa May. We will have much more on the political confusion here in the U.K. I'll be speaking to

two senior members of her Conservative Party. Stay with us.

[15:31:43] HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. We're going to update you now with the top stories that we're

following this evening.

Theresa May has spent the last few hours locked in talks with her party's lawmakers. It comes as the British Prime Minister aims to strike a deal

with the Democratic Unionist Party to try to get a working majority in parliament. Those talks could delay the annual Queen's Speech, which lays

out the government's legislative agenda for the next parliament.

Meantime, a monitoring group says more than 900 people are under arrest in Russia. They were staging anti-corruption protests in major cities across

the country. Among the detained, opposition leader Alexei Navalny who, police say, was going the lead an illegal march down one of Moscow's main


U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions will testify publicly before a Senate committee on Tuesday, tomorrow. Senators are expected to ask him about his

third unreported interaction with Russia's Ambassador, as well, of course, of the firing of the former FBI Director James Comey.

And the jury could soon start deliberating the assault case against American actor Bill Cosby after closing arguments. Cosby's defense team

rested today without calling the actor to the stand. Cosby has pleaded not guilty to the charges that he drugged and sexually assaulted Andrea

Constand in 2004.

OK. Let's now return to our top story and the political chaos right here in the United Kingdom. We are covering it from all angles. Political

Analyst Carole Walker joins me here from our London studios, and Nic Robertson is live for us in Belfast.

Carole, to you first. The Queen's Speech, we understand that it's not only going to be pared back, but also delayed. We don't know when the Queen

might actually deliver what the government's agenda is. Is this unprecedented?

CAROLE WALKER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It is unprecedented in recent times, and I think a real sign of the huge difficulties facing Theresa May as she

tries to work out how to get her program through without the parliamentary majority which she'd hoped to increase at this general election.

The Queen's Speech is a big state occasion. The Queen arriving in the golden coach at the Houses of Parliament to read out the program of new

laws which the government wants the try to get through in this coming session. But the government is having to perform a hasty rethink. Many of

the most controversial, difficult measures are simply going to have to be junked because the government will not be able to get them through the

House of Commons.

Then, of course, there is the Democratic Unionist Party. The government is going to be relying on the votes of those 10 DUP MPs, so there is now this

conversation, this haggling and negotiation going on, with the biggest party in Northern Ireland to try to agree a program and get them on board

to provide as much support as possible to get this program through.

VAUGHAN JONES: OK. Let's talk about the Democratic Unionist Party then. Nic Robertson is live for us in Belfast.

And, Nic, tell us who Arlene Foster is. What do we know about her? This is, of course, the woman who could be kingmaker or, perhaps we should say,


NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, she seemed to be in very sort of political hot water recently because Sinn Fein, their sort

of biggest partner in the power sharing government, blamed her principally for hundreds of millions of dollars they say were squandered in a green

energy scheme that the DUP, under Arlene Foster, didn't properly manage.

[15:35:12] And there was sort of, you know, quite a push for her, you know, to recuse herself from the talks to restart the power sharing government

and to recuse herself from going back to becoming first minister. She takes a very strong position. She is very deeply unionist in her beliefs

and in her outlooks. She is being very careful about what she and the rest of her party are saying publicly about what their negotiations are with

Theresa May.

She was asked a question today at a press conference, the only press conference they have given since this new position emerged where they are,

as you say, are going to be essentially kingmakers here. She was asked the question, going back to 2015, when it appeared at that time as if the DUP

might be in this same position they were. But at that time, they had laid out some points that were important to them, issues that would be divisive

here across the community.

But one of them was the Parades Commission. Many of the DUP Orangemen -- and they go on this traditional parades -- they wanted some greater

allowances there from the Parades Commission. There were issues about protecting former policemen and former Army officers from prosecution, both

dating back to some of the troubles here in Northern Ireland.

These will be very contentious issues. So she was asked that question, will she be pushing for those same points that she wanted to push for back

in 2015? This was her answer.


ARLENE FOSTER, LEADER, DEMOCRATIC UNIONIST PARTY: We're not going to negotiate over the airwaves of our esteemed colleagues in front of us, but

what I will say is this. We are going into these talks with the national interests at heart.

The Union, as I said before, is our guiding star. We believe in the union, we believe in national stable government, and that will be what is at the

forefront of our mind going into the talks again tomorrow.


ROBERTSON: Well, Gerry Adams, the leader of the sort of principal party that they share power with in the power sharing government, Sinn Fein, said

that whatever the DUP does, whatever they agree with Theresa May, it won't be in the interest of all the people of Northern Ireland. He also

predicted that it will end in tears as well, Hannah.

VAUGHAN JONES: OK. Lots of details still to hammer out there before any deal is reached. Nic Robertson in Belfast, Carole Walker in London, thank


Well, it has been quite a week for Theresa May's Conservative Party. I want to get the view now from a cynic and conservative lawmaker. Sir Bill

Cash joins me in the studios.


VAUGHAN JONES: Sir, thank you for coming in. And we are hearing earlier after Theresa May's 1922 showdown with her backbenchers, we heard from

Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary.

CASH: Yes.

VAUGHAN JONES: He took to Twitter to say it was a stonking performance. Has she put paid to any calls for a leadership challenge for the time


CASH: Well, absolutely. And actually, it was also a very effective performance. She covered all the grounds. She took an enormous number of

questions. I was there for an hour and half, something like that, and what was interesting was the fact that she was completely candid as well and

dealing with all the questions very effectively.

There is a story running around at the moment. There's a rumor -- you know rumors are like bats that fly in the night -- that somehow or other, we're

going to come out of the Customs Union. There doesn't appear to be any authority for that. And, of course, it would be U-turn on the Manifesto

Commitment. So I just make that point, but that was not raised during the meeting at all.

VAUGHAN JONES: Yes, but, broader consensus on Brexit, this is what we understand she has agreed on. This is what's demanded by the backbenchers.

What does that mean though --

CASH: No, it wasn't actually. No, there were one or two people who raised that question because there was an issue about the question of the single

market. But the single market, quite clearly, I can tell you, is -- you cannot be in the single market. I've been chairman of the European

Scrutiny Committee for the last six years --

VAUGHAN JONES: So what does that mean for hard Brexit then?

CASH: Well, hard --

VAUGHAN JONES: Have we still got hard Brexit?

CASH: Can we forget about the hard Brexit and the soft Brexit? They're totally meaningless expressions. I mean, it is completely rubbish to talk

hard and soft Brexit. Not to you, of course, but in general.

No, the real point is that this is a European Union, which has a legal framework. And that legal framework includes the four freedoms, which are

associated with a single market. If you are going be out of the European Union, and we've had a referendum, we've had a Withdrawal Act -- not a

proposal but an act of parliament saying we withdraw -- and we've also now had a general election where --

VAUGHAN JONES: In which you suffered quite a lot of losses.

CASH: Oh, but wait a minute. There were 494 to 120 members of parliament who voted to get out when it came to the act of parliament. But in

addition to that, in this election, 85 percent of the constituencies said that they wanted to leave, so that is also true.

[15:40:07] VAUGHAN JONES: Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean they want to leave on the terms that were originally put forward by the Tory Party --

CASH: No, but --

VAUGHAN JONES: -- such as a hard Brexit for example.

CASH: Can I reply to that simply by repeating what I've said very quickly, which is you cannot, constitutionally or legally, it is impossible. And

the E.U. will tell you this, too, and that is what they are saying. You can't cherry pick, and you cannot be out of the European Union and stay in

the single market. You have to comply with the four freedoms, which includes the freedom of movement.

VAUGHAN JONES: OK. But these are unprecedented at times.

CASH: Of course, they are, yes.

VAUGHAN JONES: We don't know when the Queen's Speech might even be yet at the moment.

CASH: That's the story.

VAUGHAN JONES: That is what --

CASH: Something about a goat's kin.

VAUGHAN JONES: Exactly. But this is how the government puts forward its legislative agenda.

CASH: Of course.

VAUGHAN JONES: If the Queen's Speech isn't next Monday as it was scheduled to be and puts back a bit, does it then put the entire government's

legislative agenda at peril?


VAUGHAN JONES: And I don't just mean Brexit. I also mean the Great Reform Bill, which I know you've been involved in.

CASH: The Great Repeal Bill.

VAUGHAN JONES: Great Repeal Bill, I mean, which is --

CASH: That was 1832, this is 2017.


VAUGHAN JONES: The Great Repeal Bill --

CASH: Yes.

VAUGHAN JONES: -- which is effectively trying to transfer E.U. laws that we were subject to --

CASH: Yes. Of course.

VAUGHAN JONES: -- into U.K. law in the aftermath of Brexit.

CASH: Yes, absolutely. Yes.

VAUGHAN JONES: Is Brexit, overall, is that now in question?

CASH: No, not at all.

VAUGHAN JONES: Could we have not have Brexit?

CASH: Absolutely not. And for this very simple reason, that we've already, as I've said, the three stages -- referendum, act of parliament,

now a general election -- have endorsed Brexit. Some people are trying to spin it as somehow or other, it hasn't work. Yes, it does and it has done.

And actually, there are massive advantages.

And may I just say, on the single market, which is relevant to this Customs Union question as well, the fact is that we run a trade deficit with the

other 27 member states of 71 billion a year, according to the Office of National Statistics. We have a trade surplus, which is the issue of

running our own trade policy, which is why we need to get out of the Customs Union in order to be able to run our own trade policy. And with

that --


CASH: -- just let me finish my point -- the fact is, we have a massive 34 billion surplus, which is accelerating at the rate of around 10 billion a


VAUGHAN JONES: But you can't get away from the fact that Theresa May, as the Tory Party leader, as our Prime Minister, stood on a campaign of


CASH: Yes, including getting out to the --

VAUGHAN JONES: And the public --

CASH: -- continue getting out of the Customs Union.

VAUGHAN JONES: And the public in Britain largely wanted to talk about austerity and social measures instead.

CASH: Yes.

VAUGHAN JONES: When Theresa May, is she is still Prime Minister over the course of the next couple of weeks, when she goes to Brussels --

CASH: Yes.

VAUGHAN JONES: -- when she goes to Brussels to hold those talks, those negotiations --

CASH: Yes.

VAUGHAN JONES: Is her hand now significantly weakened to Britain's detriment?

CASH: With the DUP, the answer is no. And the DUP are very, very strong allies of ours. I know them extremely well. They're extremely reliable.

And with the DUP or with E.U., you've got rock-like support.

VAUGHAN JONES: Questionable principles though?

CASH: Well, there are some things which are devolved matters, which have nothing, whatever, to do with the question of austerity. Could I just

simply say, there will be changes, I believe, in the great Queen Speech, and they will respond to what took place in the election. I'm thinking of

things like social care policy, which I think will be parked, thing like that.

But the one thing, we only have unemployment at the moment in the U.K. at 4.5 percent. That is a jewel which has to be retained, and we've got to

get out of the E.U. in order to be able to expand our trade and provide the money from reasonable taxation. Venezuela Corbynistas will kill the


VAUGHAN JONES: OK. Sir Bill Cash, thank you very much for joining us on the program. We appreciate it.

CASH: Thank you.

VAUGHAN JONES: And still ahead on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Theresa May is, of course, the Prime Minister, but some of the power in her party rests with a

group of backbench MPs, as we were just hearing. And after last week's election, they are not happy. I'll be speaking with a former member of the

1922 Committee, next.


[15:46:00] VAUGHAN JONES: Welcome back. Let's talk more about British politics and the state that we're in at the moment.

The 1922 is a powerful committee made up of Conservative backbenchers, members of Parliament who don't hold a front bench cabinet position. The

Committee meets weekly when Parliament is sitting. It keeps the government informed of backbench opinions and any concerns that they may have. It

also handles leadership challenges which can be triggered when 15 percent of sitting Conservative MPs write to the 1922 Chairman.

Well, the Committee was founded, believe it or not, in 1923, but it takes its name from a famous meeting the previous year when the Conservatives

pulled out of the coalition with the Liberals.

Well, with me to talk more of about that is a member of that Committee, the Conservative M.P., John Whittingdale. Thank you very much for joining us.

You were there at the 1922 meeting earlier on. What kind of reception did Theresa May receive?

JOHN WHITTINGDALE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT, UNITED KINGDOM: Well, the Prime Minister got a good reception, but she came firstly to express her sadness

about the fact that quite a number off my colleagues did not succeed in our election and lost their seats. And that, obviously, is something that all

of us are sad about, we have lost friends. And the she also came to recognize that we did not fight a good campaign and mistakes were made,

and, ultimately, she took responsibility for that.

But having said those two things, she then went on to say that the important thing now is that we have a strong government, that we go into

these talks about Brexit in just a week's time. And that she, hopefully, will be leading a party with the support of the Democratic Unionists, which

will have a majority in parliament.

VAUGHAN JONES: You said that she said to you that she was sorry for the election results and perhaps the campaign that she led. She didn't say

that to the British public, though, when she took to Downing Street in the aftermath of the election. Has she paid to all of the arguments at the

moment that there should be some sort of leadership contest and perhaps there should even be another general election in the --

WHITTINGDALE: I don't think either would be good for the country, but --

VAUGHAN JONES: There's no appetite for it?

WHITTINGDALE: There is absolutely no appetite for it. And the British people have had to go out to vote three times in the last two years, and I

don't think anybody wants to have another general election. That would just create even greater uncertainty, and nor do we want to go through the

lengthy process of having a leadership election.

VAUGHAN JONES: But is there anyone who could stand against her? Is there anyone sort of in the offing at the moment?

WHITTINGDALE: No. I mean, because, actually, all the leading members have made it plain that they think it best that she continue as Prime Minister

and pledged support. And that was very much the mood in the meeting this afternoon.

VAUGHAN JONES: But hardly a very strong mandate, is it? She said that she wanted to become Prime Minister in order to strengthen her hand going into

Brexit negotiations. Now, we're hearing that she's effectively just the caretaker of Prime Minister and the leader of the Tory Party just until

someone else can step up to the plate.

WHITTINGDALE: Well, I don't think she is a caretaker, but on the other hand, I wouldn't argue that she's been weakened by the result. I mean, as

you say, she decided to call an election, and we ended up rather than having a bigger majority, but with no majority at all. It didn't go as we

had planned.

But nonetheless, we are still the biggest party. We have a responsibility of making sure that this country has a stable government as we go into what

are going to be very challenging times.

VAUGHAN JONES: How could she not be weakened? I mean, it's a humiliating result, even though, of course, the Tories were the largest party as a

result. But still, it's a humiliating result.


VAUGHAN JONES: And shameful, some would argue, that now the Tories are about to sort of jump into bed with the DUP.

WHITTINGDALE: It was a strange result in that, actually, we won seats we've never won before. We got a higher share of the vote than we've had

for many years. But you can't disguise the fact that, actually, we ended up with fewer seats in the House of Commons and we no longer have a

majority. We do need to have the support of a minor party.

Now, historically, we've always had close links with the Democratic Unionist. We have similar views on many issues. Not all issues. But I

think that they have indicated they are willing to at least support the government on the major votes, and that will allow us to have that secure

majority, certainly for the next foreseeable future.

VAUGHAN JONES: But the big question is, though, when going into any kind of deal with the DUP, what that could mean for the Northern Ireland peace

process at the moment and the assembly that is currently dissolved there in Northern Ireland. Is that going to be the main thing that Theresa May is

thinking about when's considering going into a deal with them?

[15:50:15] WHITTINGDALE: Well, I mean, I think we have to have seek an arrangement with the DUP because --

VAUGHAN JONES: She's got no choice.

WHITTINGDALE: -- otherwise there will be chaos. And no party would have a majority in Parliament and we would find it very difficult to govern. But

the DUP will not be joining the government. This is not a coalition.

They have indicated that they are prepared to reach an agreement about supporting our major votes, but they won't have a veto on policy. And that

was something, which, actually, the Prime Minister said to us this evening. She made it absolutely clear that, whilst we will be seeking an agreement,

we will not be staying for veto to the DUP, that they can veto any aspect of government policy.

VAUGHAN JONES: But you say there would be chaos if there wasn't a deal with the DUP and therefore, a Tory minority working government. The Labour

Party is saying that they are going to prepare an alternative Queen Speech and put forward their legislative agenda for the next parliament. They

could, theoretically, if Sinn Fein took their seats in Westminster. They could form exactly the same thing that the Tories are trying to form at the


WHITTINGDALE: Well, it would require the Labour Party to have the support, not just their own MPs, but also the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the

SNP, the Welsh Nationalists and, as you say, Sinn Fein, who don't ever turn up. It's almost impossible to conceive that happening. And Labour Party

are way, way short of a majority in parliament, whereas we are just a couple of seats short.

VAUGHAN JONES: Final thought. Interesting that you mentioned the SNP in Scotland. Of course, Theresa May is going to be held very much in ransom

by Ruth Davidson and the Scottish conservatives because it is only because of their success in the election that she's still got any chance of forming

a government.

WHITTINGDALE: Well, I don't think it's a question of being held ransom. Ruth Davidson, certainly, is a conservative. I'm delighted --

VAUGHAN JONES: But you have different views on the Brexit.

WHITTINGDALE: Not vastly. Well, her MPs in Scotland fought on the same manifesto that I fought. I mean, obviously, the question of Brexit, for

now, we know what the priorities are. We know what the British people voted for, but we're going into negotiations starting in a week's time.

Those are going to be long and complicated. But the fact that we have 12 conservative MPs in Scotland, whereas, previously, we had one is a huge


VAUGHAN JONES: OK. John Whittingdale, thank you very much indeed. Appreciate you coming in.


VAUGHAN JONES: Coming up on the program, a bumpy ride for Uber this week. Why the company's leadership is headed for a new route. Stay with us for



VAUGHAN JONES: Not a good start to the week for Uber. An internal investigation could mean big, big changes for the company. One of the top

executives is already out. And now, the CEO could take a leave of absence as well.

Samuel Burke is following the story and joins me in the studio now. Sam, these changes might end up going all the way to the top?

SAMUEL BURKE, CNNMONEY BUSINESS AND TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And just remember how this all started. It was because of one brave former

engineer, a woman who used to work at Uber. Her name is Susan Fowler.

She wrote a blog post where she said, I was sexually harassed, she alleged. And when she took those allegations to Uber, they said she would have to

move departments, not the man that she alleged sexually harassed her. That caused this investigation to be started led by former U.S. Attorney General

Eric Holder.

[15:54:57] Now, the former -- now former -- senior vice president for business, Emil Michael, who is the right-hand man to Travis Kalanick is out

of the company. And "The New York Times" is even reporting that Kalanick himself may take have a three-month leave of absence sometime after this


Now, that could be in the wake of his mother dying or it could be in the wake of this investigation. But at the end of the day, 20 people have

already been fired.

But if you just take a step back and look at this woman who spoke out, and you think about the other women who have spoken out lately, Gretchen

Carlson, the Fox news anchor who spoke out against Roger Ailes, and her allegations of sexual harassment. Wendy Walsh, the radio psychologist in

the States. Bill O'Reilly, the famous presenter in the States at Fox News, out. All women speaking out afraid of maybe being castigated by their

whole industry and causing a huge sea change.

VAUGHAN JONES: OK. So that's what's going on internally within Uber. Externally, though, what does it mean for all the people who use the Uber


BURKE: Well, it's interesting because, at the end of the day, it won't change anything that you do with the app. That's going to keep on going.

It's still a company that's worth nearly $70 billion, but Uber may have lost some people along the way. Maybe not a huge amount but one analyst

said to us earlier, listen, you may have millions and millions of users, but you don't want to alienate half of your user base, of course, being

your half.

VAUGHAN JONES: OK. Well, I know you're going to have lots more on this on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS," which comes up in the next hour. Samuel, thank you

very much indeed.

Now, don't try to silence the Divine Ms. M. Bette Midler won Best Leading Actress in a Musical for "Hello, Dolly!" at Sunday's 71st Annual Tony

Awards. And she refused to be played off by the orchestra during her speech. Take a listen.


BETTE MIDLER, ACTRESS: And I just want to say -- I just want to say -- I just want to say, the Bible -- shut that crap off.


MIDLER: I just want to say -- I just want to say -- I just want to say -- I just want to say --


VAUGHAN JONES: Oh, tell us how you feel, Bette. That's wonderful. She should stay on stage all night as far as I'm concerned. And we should also

say, "Hello, Dolly!" also won Best Musical Revival. So well done to the whole team.

BURKE: We have the same problem with you, getting you off this set.


VAUGHAN JONES: I know. I am going to go now, though, because this has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. And that's all we've got time for.

Thanks so much for watching. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" with Samuel is up next.


RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR: Benjamin Carlson, the Housing Sector, too, of the United States, ringing the closing bell to celebrate National Home

Ownership Month. It does so on a day when the Dow is off 33 points for the main index. One, two -- oh, yes.