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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Stars of "Wife Swap" Murdered; Three Killed in Home Fire, Hubby Missing; SC Serial Killer; Dalia Dippolito Guilty in Murder-For-Hire Plot; Caught on Camera; Disturbing New Details; Bizarre Lawsuit Filed; What`s the Sentence? Aired 8-9p ET

Aired June 19, 2017 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST (voice-over): A church-going, hit-singing, clean-living family, the least likely place for a double murder, a mom and

son shot to death.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know they impacted so many lives.

BANFIELD: A third son still alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I have to just pray for everyone.

BANFIELD: But police say that survivor was also the killer.

Eerie mystery off a quiet shore, a driverless boat running in circles, the inside covered in blood. Back on dry land, the owner`s family dead and

burned to a char. Where is that husband? Did he die on that boat? Or was it a brilliant escape?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to continue to look at all angles.

BANFIELD: A mom, two daughters and a couple across town.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have their own crime scene. We have ours.

BANFIELD: See the man accused of killing them all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her friend George`s car was there, and I left flowers.

BANFIELD: How their bodies were staged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s on the bed, he`s on the floor, and neither one of them`s responding.

BANFIELD: What clues are in the crime scene? Was it a spree killer at work? Plus, the boyfriend who says he`s haunted by what if`s.

They come to you in your greatest need, but some New York EMTs are being sued by the guy they rescued. Too drunk to stay put, he dived from the

back of the ambulance. Now he`s blaming the heroes for what happened when he met the pavement.

Night driving turns into night terror, hard to see it coming. And that wrong-way driver somehow took off and is still out there somewhere.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Hello, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.

You know those super-Christian families you see on TV with the perfect home and the perfect kids and the perfect life, the ones that you make you

wonder, Where did I go wrong? I could never have it that perfect. Tonight, I`m here to tell you, you don`t want it to be perfect like that,

not if it means ending up like the Stockdale family because even the super- Christians, they have their share of struggles and secrets.

And in Ohio, if you knew bluegrass music, you knew the Stockdale family. That family band toured, played fairs and other gigs around the state and

posted their performances on their YouTube page.

Over the years, the band changed up a little as some of the boys grew up and moved away, but the two younger brothers at home, well, they stayed and

they played together with their dad and with a family friend. A couple years ago, we even got an up close and real personal look at the

Stockdales, their family values and their strong religious beliefs when they signed up to appear on the ABC reality show "Wife Swap."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Stockdales are devoutly religious and have banned TV and video games believing it`s their moral responsibility to censor all

that their kids watch and listen to. And the boys are also home schooled in order to control their influences.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s important we have control over their character and their education.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The kids in that video are now in their 20s, but they kept playing bluegrass together right up until about a week ago when something

happened in the Stockdale house on Friday. Someone inside that home called 911 and got cut off. The sheriff`s deputies paid them a visit, but they

heard a gunshot just as soon as they arrived.

And once they got inside, the unimaginable, a scene that defies the perfect Christian home that the Stockdales have lived for decades and displayed on

TV. Kathryn, that mom, manager of the band -- she was shot dead. Her son James on the stand-up bass -- he was shot dead. Another son Jacob, the kid

who was playing the fiddle in those picture -- well, he looked to be dead, but he was still alive, even though he`d been shot in the head.

And it did not take investigators long before they figured out the scene. They say James, the one who survived, (sic) this one on the fiddle, shot

his entire family and then tried to kill himself. The neighbors described what they heard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a rapid, you know, Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, like that. And then time enough to reload and another five or six shots.

So I thought they was target practicing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The Stockdales` dad, Timothy, the one in the center there, also in the band -- he was not home at the time of the shooting, but he did

arrive home to the news that his family, many of them, were dead.

Jim Michaels is an anchor reporter for WHBC radio. He joins me from Canton, Ohio. Jim, what happened at that home?

JIM MICHAELS, WHBC RADIO (via telephone): Well, you know, we got simply a family of four at this point in time. And when sheriff`s deputies arrived

-- they, of course, got, as you said, that 911 hang-up call and they came to the door and saw the big door was open, the screen door closed, saw a

body on the floor. Then they heard a gunshot. That`s apparently the point where Jacob shot himself. And they were able to get inside and see that,

of course, Mom and his brother were dead.

BANFIELD: Jim, it seemed like they were the perfect family. You look at the pictures. You see them perform. You hear people talk about them. You

see them on the TV show, the reality show. There seemed to be nothing wrong with them. Were there any reports that there was something wrong

with this family?

MICHAELS: There was just one little report that Jacob -- there was a get- together about a week before the shooting, and Jacob indicated he wasn`t feeling well. He left kind of a gig and that a couple of groups got

together and did here. But it`s hard to say certainly that what we see on the reality show I think is what this family is about. And that`s what

makes it harder to figure out, I think.

Friends of the family that I talked to say that they were sort of a normal family, very strict, no doubt stricter than most, but still pretty down to

earth, pretty normal. So that`s what makes it a big, big question mark.

BANFIELD: And of course, the microscope is on every aspect of their lives. They lived so publicly, after all.

I want to play for you, if I can, a part of that ABC program "Wife Swap" that talked about the way they live and the kind of work that the kids had

to do all the time to be a part of that family. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In order to earn privileges, the boys must gain tokens by completing a chore they must then check off on a chart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It also addresses attitudes. Just because the job is done does not mean it`s necessarily done in the right way. The boys pay 20

tokens to listen to a radio show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s important to instill in our children that you need to work and not expect to have a handout.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Now, plenty of families have that kind of a value where kids have to do chores in order to get the benefits. That`s not so unusual.

But there was something unusual from the ABC program "Wife Swap" that did stand out, and that was the parents` rules about their teenage sons and

dating. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do not allow any cussing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aw, rats!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that dating has physical dangers like pregnancy. It`s not worth it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve never been out on a date. There`s better ways to find out about girls than dating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have not kissed a girl in a romantic way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Not, Jim, I don`t want to pass judgment on anyone, but it is not particularly in the norm to prevent kids who are 16 years old-plus from

having any contact for dating. Is there some thought among investigators that this kind of lifestyle may have led to what transpired in the house

last week?

MICHAELS: I don`t really believe so, Ashleigh. Again, friends of the family I talked to indicated that that really doesn`t accurately portray

what the family was like. Maybe that`s not correct, but in particular, one close friend saying that it`s pretty much reality TV and not what it was

really like. But how much that might have played a role, I`m not sure (INAUDIBLE) maybe it did.

BANFIELD: You know, with the situation as it is, what we know is that James, at 21 years old on the stand-up bass, was shot dead. His mom, 54

years old, Kathryn, was shot dead. And Jacob -- you know, if you ask the police, they think Jacob is the shooter, but he would be a four-year senior

to his little brother if that were the case.

I want to just play a little bit more of that ABC program "Wife Swap." If there`s any insight anyone can get from anything, it would be at least what

they left behind on video. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The work I have to do is sweep the porch, sweep all the downstairs, clear the table, unload the dishwasher. It`s kind of boring

after a while. I`ve been doing it for about eight years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We raise a lot of our own vegetables. We raise all of the meat that we eat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That one`s dead. That one`s a little bit not dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I like to cook from scratch. I like to cook from nutritious food.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Joining me now in studio, Areva Martin and Mark Eiglarsh. Look, that video -- that whole show was filmed back in 2008, so we`re talking

about better part of a decade ago. Will that factor in at all into the investigation just to get some insight into how the family dynamics played

out?

AREVA MARTIN, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: I think, Ashleigh, law enforcement`s going to be looking at everything, absolutely, that

videotape, as well as talking to neighbors, talking to other family members. Oftentimes, in these situations, there is some mental health,

some psychological issue that hasn`t been diagnosed, maybe not even talked about widely in the family. I wouldn`t be surprised in this case if we

don`t discover something that`s lurking beneath the surface that wasn`t revealed in that reality show.

BANFIELD: So interesting because, Mark, one of the questions, you know, I think a lot of people have -- What were they like when they weren`t on TV?

Because all we`re looking at is when the cameras are rolling. And family friend Giovanna Todd -- you know, she was asked about what she knew of this

family, this family`s dynamic. And she kind of said that they seemed to be pretty much great together. Have a listen to what Giovanna Todd said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIOVANNA TODD, FAMILY FRIEND: They were performers, you know? They -- they may just smile when they would perform and they`d crack jokes and

you`d laugh because their humor was funny.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So Mark, that doesn`t help me at all. It seems more mystery now than resolution.

MARK EIGLARSH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: See, Giovanna is just one of the many people who`s attending the theater, the show. They`re showing you what

they want you to see that they`re like. But behind closed doors, I`ve learned from doing 25 years of criminal defense work and prosecution, you

never know what somebody is really like.

Generally, hurt people hurt people. So somewhere along the way, I think this guy was hurt. I don`t know if it was physically, emotionally, mental

illness, as was mentioned earlier, but people don`t act like this when they`re truly normal, living a happy, healthy existence.

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE) this is Kathy Stockdale`s YouTube channel. This is a mother putting her kids` and -- you know, and her husband`s performances

so proudly out for everyone to share. And some of the comments -- you know, These guys are great. I can`t wait to see them again. And she`d

tell them when they`d be performing.

You know, I got to say, personally, as I investigated this story, I was very drawn to their performance. I watch them...

EIGLARSH: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: ... and I was even more mystified because they seemed so happy. Let`s just listen in for a little bit.

(VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Again, that`s James over on the right-hand side with the fiddle.

Real quickly, Jim Michaels, what`s the condition at this point of Jacob?

MICHAELS: Jacob, yes, still critical, and of course, sheriff`s deputies can`t really speak to him about anything until his health situation

improves. He`s critical in Cleveland Hospital.

BANFIELD: And I said it was Jim, I meant Jacob. That was Jacob, you know, on the fiddle playing on the right-hand side. Seems so happy. They all

seem so happy.

But Mark, to your point, you just never know what goes on behind closed doors.

EIGLARSH: Absolutely. And one word I heard used several times by the mother in the full "Wife Swap" video was "control" -- We control this, We

control that. Listen, my children don`t like to be controlled, and they`re young. They get older and she`s still controlling them, that`s a recipe

for disaster.

BANFIELD: But Areva, I -- you know, that`s exactly what I thought. And then I realized Jacob is 25, living at home, and Jim -- James, 21, living

at home. If you don`t like being controlled, you don`t need to stay at home until you`re 21 and 25.

MARTIN: And I think that`ll be what the investigators will be looking at, too. Why are these grown men living at home? What`s going on in the

family dynamics? And I think there`s some family dynamics clearly not presented in a reality television show. We know that`s just a snippet.

You know, when they go in with the cameras and they follow families, they`re putting forth a storyline. And oftentimes, the bigger story is

never revealed in what`s presented to the public. And as we know, a lot of musicians, and you know, people who are under scrutiny, intense scrutiny,

there`s often things that are happening that we never know about until something tragic like this happens.

BANFIELD: Well, here`s one thing we`re going to need to know about whether Jacob survives, can talk to investigators. Right now, they haven`t been

able to talk to him. And whether they can get any more sort of intelligence out of this from him. He has not been charged yet, which is

fascinating. Do you think that`s just insult to injury for a family already grieving?

EIGLARSH: Yes, you don`t charge him yet. I did come up with one other theory. Let`s say they really did have it going on. This was the perfect

family. And just -- he started to develop mental illness, as many people do in their early 20s. He hears voices, Kill Mom, kill Brother.

Everything else is seemingly normal. Nobody really notices anything. And he does so.

BANFIELD: Oh...

EIGLARSH: Is that possible?

BANFIELD: You see these pictures and it`s just so sad. I mean...

MARTIN: I just think there are signs. Oftentimes in these cases, there`s signs, and we ignore them. We don`t want to see them. But they`re there.

BANFIELD: All right, I`m going to have to leave it there. We`re going to watch to see, obviously, what happens with Jacob and whether they are able

to ask questions and if there`s going to be some charging. You bet your bottom dollar we`re going to follow that story, as well.

In Florida, a fiery inferno levels a family home, absolute charred. Nothing there except the remains of three people, and one of them is just

9, a little boy found in the debris. Police suspect foul play. They have not yet named a suspect mainly because one of the victims, her husband, is

missing without a trace.

And this -- a terrifying dashcam point of view of a wrong-way crash as it happens. But guess what happened to the driver who was in the oncoming

lane?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: There are a few things that you never want to come across in life, a headless horseman, a faceless ghost, and a driverless boat running

in circles on otherwise calm, quiet waters, but that`s exactly what police came across not far off of Florida`s Palm Beach coast.

And what`s more eerie, inside that driverless boat, evidence that sure looked a lot like blood. Before they could even figure out what happened

to the driver of that boat, they sadly figured out what happened to his family. Their bodies were smoldering in there -- that`s miles away, back

on dry land -- after a huge inferno torched their home.

And working backwards, they had themselves a bizarre murder mystery. The charred bodies of three people, Chrissy Hughes, her 9-year-old son

Sebastian and Chrissy`s sister Linda were found inside what used to be a 3,000-square-foot home. And investigators say it looks like at least two

of them were killed before the fire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOD GOODYEAR, BREVARD COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: They found what they believed to be the remains of a child. It`s a terrible thing. I would

hate to be, you know, a parent or relative of this child and have to have this news delivered to me that my relative died in this manner.

THERESA BRYAN, NEIGHBOR: That`s horrible. It just -- it just sends chills through me to think that anybody would do anything like that to anybody,

and let alone a young child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Investigators quickly launched a search for Chrissy`s husband, Tony, but all they found was his truck and his trailer at a boat launch.

And strangely, the truck`s engine was still running. Trailer was backed up into the water. It was the Coast Guard that came across Tony`s boat, an

18-foot motorboat, again, driverless, covered in what looked like blood, going in circles seven miles off the shore.

Tod Goodyear is public information officer for the Brevard County sheriff`s office. He joins me from Titusville, Florida. Tod, really weird story, I

mean, very strange circumstances. I`m not sure what to make of it. Does your group of investigators think that Tony Hughes jumped overboard out

there, or do they think this is some elaborate staged plan?

GOODYEAR: Well, you know, the premise right now is that he committed suicide. There`s some blood in the boat that we know is human. There`s

some more testing (INAUDIBLE) need to be done to confirm whose it is. But we`re also still continuing the homicide investigation to build a solid,

prosecutable case in case he were to be found alive.

BANFIELD: Does it not seem strange to you and your investigators that someone who`s intent on taking his own life seems to be in such an

incredible hurry as to leave the engine of the truck running at the shore?

GOODYEAR: Well, there`s some evidence there that I can`t really go into because of the investigation, but there may have been some circumstances

(INAUDIBLE) that made him think he needed to leave in a hurry. It is a strange set of circumstances to go that far off the coast and commit

suicide, but you know, you don`t know what`s in his mind at the time. Maybe he had another idea and changed it.

So until we get all the pieces put together, it`s really a lot of speculation on our part, and we`re hoping that that all comes together as

the investigation unfolds.

BANFIELD: Can you confirm that the boat actually did have blood inside?

GOODYEAR: Yes. From what I`m told from the investigators, it did test positive as human blood. However, we do not have the further lab testing

that would be needed to confirm who the blood actually belongs to.

BANFIELD: OK. Can you tell me, was it a lot? Was it a little? I mean, I`ve nicked myself on the ropes trying to tie up. Are we talking about

something that might have been there a long time, or are we talking about somebody who might have tried to kill himself in a really gory way?

GOODYEAR: Not having seen it, I don`t know exactly how much it is. And not knowing the circumstances of possibly how he may have taken his life,

you know, it`s hard to say is it enough to point to that determination? There`s many ways to take your own life, depending on where he is with the

boat when he did that, depending on the type of weapon he used, you might have all kinds of different amounts of blood there.

So until we`re really finished with the investigation, it`s really tough for us to tell exactly what happened out there.

BANFIELD: Tod, was there a weapon recovered there on the scene, I mean, in the boat or in the truck?

GOODYEAR: As far as I`m aware of, there`s not been a weapon recovered.

BANFIELD: And what about this report of unspecified trauma that the victims in the fire suffered? What can you tell me about that?

GOODYEAR: The only thing I can tell you right now, because of the investigation, is there was some trauma that was observed that led

investigators to believe that at least some of the people in that house were more than likely killed before the fire was set. We`re not releasing

the type of trauma or anything to do with cause of death right now because of the investigation.

BANFIELD: Can you at least tell me if it`s the kind of thing where perhaps a gun was used or some kind of instrument was used?

GOODYEAR: I really can`t go into that right now. It`s something that we want to, you know, hold back in case he were to be found alive, we want to

have some ability to talk to him and if he were to talk to us to be able to confirm what we found there to make sure that the investigation we have is

correct.

BANFIELD: So there are reports from witnesses -- and these are unconfirmed reports, but maybe you know more because you have a lot more tools than we

do -- that Tony and Chrissy were having some problems, marital problems. Do you know that to be true?

GOODYEAR: From what I understand from the interviews that were conducted with friends and some family members and co-workers, those types of things,

there was some problems with the relationship. And that may be what led to what happened there at the house.

BANFIELD: So that`s what gets my spidey senses tingling. And look, you got to make a lot of Hollywood leaps to get to this incredible situation

whereby three people are murdered, whether they were murdered before the fire with some kind of instrument, like you were alluding to, and Tony`s

now missing, but his boat is mysteriously circling in the waters off of the Florida coast with some blood inside.

You got to make those Hollywood leaps to think, Well, maybe this was staged, maybe there was someone who met him there, maybe there was a lover.

And I wondered if you had gone into the bank account history? You know, were the bank accounts cleared out? Were there things missing from, say,

you know, a safe that was found in the rubble of the fire that was empty? Is there anything else that you could piece together in that respect?

GOODYEAR: Well, and that`s why this investigation hasn`t been closed because we are looking at every avenue that could happen. And that is a

possibility that this could have been a staged event. Investigators are pulling a lot of different records. And it takes some time for those

records to get to us from financial institutions, you know, cell phone, a lot of the other things that we can pull and try to pinpoint where people

are at specific times.

So investigators are now going through kind of that tedious process of putting together the last, you know, period of time of these people`s

lives, and then, of course, the events after the discovery and those types of things, to see where it leads us. Does it lead us to where he may be if

he did stage this?

BANFIELD: But you are pulling the records. I mean, if I have something to write out of this interview, Tod, you pulled the financial records. You

are looking to find out if accounts were cleaned out and if there was something that happened forensically before all of this went down.

GOODYEAR: That`s correct, we are, because you have to look at every possibility. It would be easier to close this and say this is a

murder/suicide. But we don`t have a body. We don`t have Tony Hughes`s body. It has not been recovered. So you have to leave that avenue open.

And as an investigator, you have to make sure that you cover all those bases with the intent that if he were to have staged this and is found

alive that we can prosecute him and successfully prosecute him and have him pay for what he`s done to these people.

BANFIELD: I get it. It takes a long time. But it`s already been a little over a week. So I`m going to call you back, Tod, and see if we can`t get

some resolution to this, as those results come in from those financial institutions and as you`re able to release a little bit more of that

mysterious situation by the boat launch.

Anything more that you can shed just before I leave you, Tod, on the boat launch, that what you said made him maybe speed up his plan and leave his

car running?

GOODYEAR: No, ma`am, other than from what we understand, there`s a possibility there may have been some witnesses there that may have seen him

launching the boat. And if that`s so and -- then that may have spurred him to leave in a hurry.

BANFIELD: Was it just him alone, or was there anyone else there?

GOODYEAR: From what I understand from this witness -- and they haven`t confirmed that it was positively him, but they did observe a man putting a

boat in the water from that trailer.

BANFIELD: By himself?

GOODYEAR: Yes, ma`am.

BANFIELD: Well, we still got a good old-fashioned mystery on our hands here, Tod. I sure appreciate you coming on with us. Will you come back

again when you`re able to say a little bit more?

GOODYEAR: Sure, be glad to.

BANFIELD: Tod Goodyear from the Brevard County sheriff`s office joining us tonight. We`re going to continue to follow that story. It is bizarre,

isn`t it? Just think about what the Coast Guard saw, that boat around and around all by itself out there, driverless boat covered in blood.

[20:30:00] Tonight, in South Carolina, the investigation into that serial killer who kept a woman in a container chained up, Todd Kohlhepp -- well,

it may not be over yet. According to the Greenville News and Independent Mail, the FBI still consider this case to be open.

There are specifying exactly why but there are some outstanding questions about where Kohlhepp got his gun as well as his claims to Kayla Brown while

she was locked inside that incredibly secure container that took more than half an hour to open and several different tools as well. You can see the

effort that they had to exert to try to get in to rescue her.

He said all things to Kayla about having a high body count. So what does that mean? Todd Kohlhepp was arrested in November after the officers

serving a search warrant discovered this. Kayla, chained in this position inside that container in the pitch black, right on his property. And boy,

could she talk about everything. And she did.

And ultimately Todd Kohlhepp confessed to seven counts of murder as well as kidnapping and criminal sexual assault as well. Sentence for him, seven

life terms and a additional 60 years for good measure for all those sex assaults. We are going to continue to update you, if the FBI comes up with

more victims, more stories, more counts for Todd Kohlhepp.

In Florida, third time was the charm for prosecutors in the Dalia Dippolito case. You will remember in 2011, she was convicted of trying to hire a hit

man to kill her husband. But that conviction was overturned on appeal. And last December, her second trial ended with a hung jury.

But on Friday, not the result she was looking for. The jury took less than two hours and found her guilty. Her case made national headlines when video

of her reaction to the news of her husband`s death, the fake news of her husband`s death, well that video just went viral.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no, no.

BANFIELD: The video was actually part of a sting. Those cops, they`re all in on it. Look closely at their faces. You might even be able to catch

their knowing glances. They had been tipped off about her plan.

Just can`t see that video enough, really. Especially the guy in the back who was trying to like -- he really looks nonplussed, yeah, this lady`s

nuts. Look, the serious story here is that Dippolito could be sentenced to 20 years in prison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: We`ll continue to update you as to what she actually gets. We hear about wrong-way accidents all the time. But it is not often that you

actually get firsthand video of what it looks like. What it looks like and what is sounds like is absolutely terrifying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yeah, that is Sunny Mallick`s point of view. That was his dash cam rolling as he caught it all. I can pretty much attest my language

wouldn`t have been as clean as Sunny`s. That car slammed right into him.

Amazingly, Sunny did not sustain any major injuries, just some minor ones. The Utah highway patrol says the wrong-way driver somehow after this

happened was able to drive away. He`s on the run. He made it. He got away. Left Sunny in that condition.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: He`s still out there and they`re still looking for him.

All right. This is an outrageous image. A guy named George Brinkman facing five counts of murder. Looks a little like Walter White, doesn`t he?

Appearing to sob as he makes his first court appearance in Ohio. But are these real tears? Are there actually tears? And wait until you see what he

mouthed to the cameraman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We are now seeing the man that police say went on a killing spree that stunned the quiet neighborhood and wiped out two families. A man no

one suspected. A man who knew all of the victims. A man named George Brinkman who was hauled in drank and shirtless, after a nine-hour standoff

with police. A man suspected of murdering five innocent and unsuspecting people.

And the details of how the victims` bodies were staged, curious and gruesome. Suzanne Taylor and her beautiful daughters, Taylor and Kylie

Pifer, were found in the bedroom of their Ohio home by one of the victim`s boyfriend. They were all positioned together, all three of them. They were

laid out faced down on the bed. Right next to each other.

They were cold to the touch, possibly dead for more than a day. Suzanne`s boyfriend says George Brinkman was Suzanne`s friend. And that once he

started dating Suzanne, things went downhill with George. Suzanne told them that George would say things to her like, how do I get a girl like you? And

that George was quote, being an ass, but that she could handle it.

A day later across town, this couple had just returned from out of town and were shot dead in their home. Their house sitter? George Brinkman. George

Brinkman was in court. Where a judge not only went over the charges but the sheer horror of the crimes he was accused of committing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: . 17 CRA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Brinkman Jr. did by force, restrain the liberty of victim Suzanne Taylor at her residence to cause the death of Suzanne

Taylor by slitting her throat with a knife. Did cause the death of Kylie Pifer, age 18, by using a telephone cord to strangle her. George Brinkman

did purposely with prior calculation and desire (ph)

[20:40:00] cause the death of Taylor Pifer, age 21, by smothering her. Do you understand the nature of the charges against you?

GEORGE BRINKMAN, SUSPECT: Yes.

BANFIELD: And while George Brinkman stood in front of the judge, he may not have appeared to be the monster painted in court and by police because he

seemed to have a message for everyone. See that? Did you catch it? The man who officers say left a trail of bodies in his wake turns to the camera and

mouthed those words. Watch again. Look closely. I`m sorry. I`m sorry, at least that`s what it looks like to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Melissa Neely is an anchor reporter at 700 WLW Radio. She joins me from Cincinnati, Ohio. Melissa, is that what he did? Was that I`m sorry?

Am I wrong?

MELISSA NEELY, ANCHOR REPORTER AT 700 WLW RADIO: No, you`re not wrong. It looks like that. It appears to be that was he was trying to communicate. No

one knows why he was trying to do that other than the fact that he maybe sorry if he is in fact the person that did all of these things.

BANFIELD: Do you have any idea why -- I mean, we`re looking at the pictures of him as he`s led out after the standoff and he has no cast or injury it

seems to his right arm in those pictures, but when he was led into court, he had a big old cast on his lower right arm.

And all we know about was that he was tased during this arrest. See that cast there? If you just look beneath the banner that we have, you can see a

cast on his right arm. What was that for?

NEELY: Right, well, we`re not really sure, but it has been reported, and he did tell a local reporter that he had punched a wall and allegedly that is

why he was injured. He had scrapes and cuts and a cast there, although that hasn`t been confirmed.

BANFIELD: And what`s all the head shaking. He just seems despondent in court. He looks like he was squeezing his eyes and trying to keep back

tears, but I don`t see any tears on his face at all. And then there`s this weird I`m sorry. What was the demeanor of this guy in court?

NEELY: Well, if this man does have a conscience, he murdered a childhood friend. Suzanne and him had been friends since they were children. He was

close friends with her, may have had a crush on her, according to her boyfriend. When they started dating, his demeanor and behavior became

strange.

So, you know, maybe there`s a little guilt there because he killed somebody that he had been lifelong friends with and was trying to be kind to him.

And he also allegedly killed the parents of his girlfriend or his ex- girlfriend rather.

BANFIELD: Where he was house sitting. I mean, he is a house sitter. I do need to repeat, these are charges he`s not convicted. Aggravated murder,

three counts murder, two counts, kidnapping three counts, tampering with evidence one. I want to bring Mark and Areva back in real quickly if I can.

Permit me if you will, Melissa.

Guys, this whole business of mouthing "I`m sorry." I need you to know, this was to the camera. This wasn`t to, you know, reporters who were beside the

camera or family members beside the camera. This was to a camera that was basically by itself in his eye line. What do you make of that? Was that

something they can use against him?

EIGLARCH: Oh, gosh, they can. So now I`m thinking as a defense lawyer, what do I do with that?

BANFIELD: What do you do?

EIGLARSH: Well, I can be laughed out of court by saying he`s saying I`m Sally, and Sally is the one who actually killed -- I`m joking. There`s no

way that is going to work.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

EIGLARSH: But the other is I`m sorry, sometimes when people do cry, they`re saying like I`m sorry, I`m crying. That doesn`t necessarily go to an

admission, it just goes to I`m sorry that I`m weeping. That`s the best I got. That`s all I`m saying.

MARTIN: I don`t think the guy`s weeping, I don`t think he`s sorry. This guy is a murderer. He killed someone who was very close to him.

EIGLARSH: Allegedly.

MARTIN: Allegedly. But he`s not there because they don`t have any evidence. Let`s be very clear. There must be a very, you know, some strong evidence

that the prosecutors have that caused them to issue an arrest warrant for him to be held like this. Even though he hasn`t been tried and convicted.

BANFIELD: Can I just say elephant in the room.

MARTIN: . we know that there`s something.

BANFIELD: Walter White. Elephant in the room. Walter White. The first thing.

MARTIN: I`m not buying his story. I`m not buying Sally or sorry.

EIGLARSH: No, another one, no.

BANFIELD: In homage to my pal Bryan Cranston, this is not a good look for that man, because it does look a little eerie and scary. And the first

thing that came to mind was Walter White, the vicious, violent, murderous criminal. Delightful, lovely criminal. All right. We are going to watch

that one as well to see what happens in terms of that case.

A New York man goes out on a bender. When the EMTs find him, he is loaded and he is asking for help. But before they can treat him, he bursts out of

the back of the moving ambulance. And now, he`s suing those EMTs and the New York Fire Department because he got some boo boos, and I`m not kidding.

[20:45:00] Also, this Friday, HLN`s original series "Beyond Reasonable Doubt" takes a closer look at a 1986 cold case about the murder of a young

bride. Investigators always assumed they were looking for a male suspect, but DNA led them to a woman. "Beyond Reasonable Doubt: Murdered Bride" airs

this Friday, 9:00 p.m.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: If you find yourself in the back of an ambulance, not usually a good thing, most of the time you`re on that gurney because you`re seriously

hurt and you`re in need of medical attention. Police and EMT figured that Yaugeni Kralkin needed a doctor fast after they found him

[20:50:00] in a pretty bad way on Staten Island, New York. They say the 54- year-old who had been walking unsteadily was on the ground and according to reports, Yaugeni had been turning up the bottle and smoking hookah all

night because he`d been having some problems with the family. He claims that he wanted to go home, but instead the officers sent him to the

hospital in an ambulance.

That`s when things went sideways because Yaugeni`s attorney said he was not happy in that ambulance, managed to unbuckle himself from the straps of the

stretcher, opened the back door of the vehicle while it was moving and just jump on out. He claims he was knocked unconscious with that jump, suffered

multiple injuries and bleeding on the brain.

Now, Yaugeni is suing the EMTs and the Fire Department and the city of New York for not taking care of him or not restraining him properly, claiming

they didn`t do enough to keep him from jumping out. And I am not kidding. Boris Chernyy is the attorney for Yaugeni Kralkin and he joins me on the

phone. Okay, Mr. Chernyy, thank you for being with me. My first question is, are you kidding me?

BORIS CHERNYY, ATTORNEY FOR MAN SUING FDNY: Absolutely not. This is a very serious lawsuit which stems from very serious injuries my client has

sustained from this incident.

BANFIELD: Isn`t it your client`s fault if he just burst drunk out of the back of the ambulance?

CHERNYY: Well, according to the medical records and the EMS call report, my client had an enormous amount of alcohol. He was grossly intoxicated, which

is our contention that he was equivalent to being helpless and could not care for his own safety and could not make any informed decisions at the

time when he jumped out of the ambulance.

BANFIELD: What do you expect the EMTs to do? Restrain him and then worry about maybe being sued for illegally restraining him?

CHERNYY: Well, they found him pretty healthy. He was just drunk as a skunk. There was a host of things that could have been done. Presumably in his

state, it took him at least 20 to 30 seconds to unstrap himself and jump out of the ambulance. But at that time, all they had to do was stop and let

him get out because he was not in medical distress.

BANFIELD: Listen, you`re a lawyer, you`re a smart man, you passed the bar in New York for God`s sake. You know full well EMTs make about between

33,000 and 47,000 a year, been there at least five years.

This is the kind of profession where you`re not going to put your life on the line when someone is drunk and belligerent and possibly dangerous. Do

you really expect them to put themselves in danger to stop your drunk ass client from jumping out the back?

CHERNYY: Well, all they had to do was stop the vehicle and open the door. And he could have done whatever he needed to do, whether it being.

BANFIELD: So you`re assuming, sir, that they knew exactly that the vehicle was going to stop and they could time this out. I mean, your client was

kind of in the proverbial driver`s seat for when he was going to jump.

CHERNYY: Well, if they believe he was dangerous, all they have to do was call for additional assistance and just stop the car. He was absolutely in

no medical distress whatsoever.

BANFIELD: Okay, I am a taxpayer in New York, and I got to say I am just personally -- I`m really pissed off at your client for being so drunk that

the EMTs had to go there in the first place. So, we got that going against you. But then to actually hold them responsible for him jumping -- I`m

going to read you the language because I don`t get this in the lawsuit.

Occurrence and resulting injuries of plaintiff were due without fault or wrongdoing on part of plaintiff. Are you truthfully trying to tell me that

your client had no fault or wrongdoing in this whole escapade?

CHERNYY: I believe that the state of mind that he was under based on the amount of alcohol that`s verified in the lab report, that he consumed, made

him not responsible for.

BANFIELD: did I lose you? Okay, there, you`re back.

CHERNYY: Yeah.

BANFIELD: Okay. You feel he was not was not responsible because he was loaded. Well, that`s like telling somebody -- you know, who is behind the

wheel when they`re loaded, they get it to a DUI, that they were too drunk to know what they were doing. Just real quickly, what is the dollar figure

on your suit, it doesn`t say so, but do you have an idea in mind how much do you want?

CHERNYY: The jurisdiction of this lawsuit is about $25,000. And my client hasn`t come up with an exact number, but that will come in the near future.

BANFIELD: Well, my staff and I are all going to have to kick in a little extra on our taxes next year to make sure that your drunk client gets

looked after. I say this tongue in cheek. You know, I really appreciate you coming on to talk about this because I think you`re going to get beat up

pretty big in the press for this. Thank you, Boris, thank you for being on.

[20:55:00] CHERNYY: Pleasure being on your show, thank you.

BANFIELD: Earlier this year, we told you about a man who pled guilty to armed robbery because he`d rather be in jail than with his wife. Well, now

he`s been sentenced, and you`re not going to believe what he got.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Do you remember Lawrence Ripple? He was the guy who pleaded not guilty back in January to robbing a bank. At the time he said that he

rather be in jail than be at home with his wife. Well, he was sentenced this week to six months of home confinement. It`s not because the judge

wanted to rub it in.

According to the Kansas City Star, Ripple`s robbery was a cry for help. After undergoing heart bypass surgery in 2015, he got depressed. He is now

being treated for his medical issues. He apologized to the court, apologized to his wife for frightening her. He`s also going to serve three

years of supervised probation. Areva and Mark, that`s that.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: Thank you both. I do love that story. Thank you for being here, really appreciate it.

[21:00:00] Thank you, everyone, for being here. "FORENSIC FILES" is coming up next. Stay tuned.

END