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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Child Molester Moves Next Door To His Victim; Valentine`s Day Murder; Beyond Reasonable Doubt; New Video Inside Police Car; Sheriff`s Threat; CNN Heroes; Breaking News
Aired June 22, 2017 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You drinking?
TONI ANDERSON, DRIVER: No.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST (voice-over): Pulled over for acting strange behind the wheel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re heading in the wrong way on this street.
T. ANDERSON: Well, yes, I know. I was about to head towards...
BANFIELD: And driving on the wrong side of the road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pull in that parking lot, sit there for a while and gather yourself.
BANFIELD: A DUI would have stopped her. Instead, she drove away to a watery grave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re facing the wrong direction.
T. ANDERSON: I know. You just made me really nervous.
BANFIELD: Now new video shows what that young woman was doing just hours before she died.
DANYELLE DYER, VICTIM: It makes me not want to go home ever.
BANFIELD: She says the new neighbor is the pedophile who attacked her as a girl.
D. DYER: He`s, like, right there in my -- like, practically in my back yard.
BANFIELD: Just out of prison, he moved in a stone`s throw from her house.
LAURINA DYER, MOTHER: I can only imagine what it does to my daughter.
BANFIELD: How is this legal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meet my abuser and my new neighbor.
BANFIELD: Fighting for justice for everyone like her.
D. DYER: I feel like I`m making a difference.
BANFIELD: Like something from a James Bond movie, a Valentine`s Day attack, charged with killing his ex. Can the spy-thrilling murder be
proven in court?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She loved everyone. She loved everything.
BANFIELD: It`s not supposed to be deadly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a very, very tragic situation.
BANFIELD: Just days after graduation, whitewater rafting kills a teenager.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not a great surprise that we found that there.
BANFIELD: But it wasn`t the rapids. It was poison in the water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there`s all kinds of ways that that water can get contaminated.
BANFIELD: Now her family is suing, saying the park should pay up.
Message to dope dealers in Florida!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re coming for you.
BANFIELD: The sheriff has had enough!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Enjoy looking over your shoulder, constantly wondering.
BANFIELD: If you`re in the business of heroin, be prepared to face a murder rap.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Enjoy trying to sleep tonight, wondering if tonight`s the night our SWAT team blows your front door off the hinges.
BANFIELD: And he`s not pulling any punches.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are coming for you. Run.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Hello, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
There is no question that a DUI is life-changing. You can lose your license, you can lose your car, you can lose your freedom. But there is
one thing you cannot lose with a DUI, and that`s your life. In fact, you could argue the opposite. A DUI could save your life. Just ask Toni
Anderson.
On second thought, you can`t ask Toni Anderson because Toni is dead. She was drunk behind the wheel and she drove into the Missouri River, and it
took two months to find her car and her body.
But just a few hours before Toni drowned in that river, she was stopped by the police, and if they had taken her keys and slapped on the cuffs, Toni
would not have ended up in that river. Toni would likely be alive today.
Police ruled her death an accident, but they had something else to answer for. Why is it the officer who stopped her let her go? She`d been
virtually parked at a stoplight on the wrong side of the road for 12 minutes as the light cycled green between three and four times.
When that officer questioned her, she slurred and giggled through her answers. Police said the officer did nothing wrong by letting her go.
So through the lens of his dashcam, I`d like you to put yourself in the patrolman`s shoes. Would you have forced Toni to do a field sobriety test,
or would you have let her go?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) white -- correction, black Ford Focus. (INAUDIBLE) one occupant, Kansas license 989 George Adam X-ray.
Good morning.
T. ANDERSON: How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fine. Where are you trying to go to?
T. ANDERSON: I`m about to go downtown. I live down there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You live downtown?
T. ANDERSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where are you coming from?
T. ANDERSON: Downtown. I live at -- well, I was working at Chrome tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At Chrome?
T. ANDERSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You drinking?
T. ANDERSON: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re heading the wrong way on this street.
T. ANDERSON: I know. I`m about to head that way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which way? This way?
T. ANDERSON: Well, yes. I didn`t know I was about to head towards Shady, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shady? What`s Shady?
T. ANDERSON: Shady Lady.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shady Lady?
T. ANDERSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know where you`re at now?
T. ANDERSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where?
T. ANDERSON: Well, I was about to head towards Shady, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Driver`s license and insurance. You`re heading the wrong way.
T. ANDERSON: Well, yes, I know, but...
[20:05:00]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, you`re -- this is not -- this is a two-way street. You`re on the full left side of the street heading into
oncoming traffic.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Huh? Not funny.
T. ANDERSON: I`m sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s why I`m asking, have you been drinking? Do you take any medications or anything?
T. ANDERSON: No. I`m just really sick. I don`t feel good so...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay right here for me, OK?
Toni?
T. ANDERSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do me a favor. Pull over on that parking lot, sit there for a while and gather yourself.
T. ANDERSON: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So when it clears, I`m going to make sure the light turns, Go there and park yourself and sit.
T. ANDERSON: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK?
T. ANDERSON: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because you`re nowhere near and you`re facing the wrong direction.
T. ANDERSON: I know. I`m just really, really nervous. I`m sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand. So pull over there and gather yourself, OK?
T. ANDERSON: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Now, if you thought that Toni seemed intoxicated, you would be spot on. Her autopsy showed there was both alcohol and cocaine in her
system.
But tonight, there`s something new, surveillance video from that convenience store where Toni went after the officer told her to go gather
yourself.
After pulling up to the pump, Toni walks inside the store to pay for her gas. And it seems that she`s opening her wallet on a counter in the back.
She then approaches the register and looks outside towards her car, pays the cashier, then looks outside again, this time craning to get a better
look. Is she looking to see if anyone is messing with her car, or is she looking to see if that police officer who stopped her has gone on his merry
way?
After paying, Toni leaves, she walks back to her car, and she pulls out of that gas station never to be seen alive again.
Ian Cummings is a reporter with "The Kansas City star" and he joins me from Kansas City, Missouri. Ian, does that new video tell us anything more
about this story?
IAN CUMMINGS, "KANSAS CITY STAR" (via telephone): Hi, Ashleigh. Yes, it did reveal something. As you mentioned, the video, the cameras outside
show Toni pulling up to the nearby intersection and remaining stopped there in the wrong lane for fully 12 minutes before a police officer pulls up
behind her.
BANFIELD: Twelve minutes as the light cycles over and over, green, red, yellow. I mean, this was obviously someone who was not in her right mind.
And yet the police are sticking by what we know from "The Wichita Eagle," which is, "We do still stand by our officer. Many factors go into a patrol
officer`s decisions. We go on what information was available to the officer at the time."
They`re still standing by this?
CUMMINGS: Yes. I spoke with North Kansas City Police yesterday about that, and yes, they said they`re still sticking with the -- standing by the
officer, that it was a reasonable decision at the time, although it was a surprise to the north Kansas City Police official I spoke with that Toni
had been at the intersection for that long. They may not have been aware of that. Again, it was Kansas City, Missouri, Police who investigated the
disappearance.
BANFIELD: Ian, be real clear with me. The officer who is on our screen right now, the officer who questioned Toni, the officer who let Toni drive
away and gather herself -- we still don`t know who he is, do we.
CUMMINGS: His name is a matter of public record. We haven`t published it yet. We`re still doing some more reporting. But I do have his name. I`ve
been told his name by North Kansas City Police.
BANFIELD: And so what`s the holdup? Why no publishing? Is there some issue with publishing that officer`s identity?
CUMMINGS: We usually -- before we do that, we`ll do some more reporting to see what are we adding to the story by talking about that? What else is
there to be learned about it? So that`s just a process that we go through at the newspaper.
BANFIELD: Ian, stand by, if you will. Toni Anderson`s parents, Brian and Liz Anderson, are live with me now from Duluth, Minnesota. Thank you to
the both of you for being on the program Tonight.
Liz, I understand as you were watching at the top of our program tonight and watching that video, it yet again affected you very deeply.
LIZ ANDERSON, MOTHER: Yes. Just -- yes, it does.
BANFIELD: Are you any closer to finding out why that officer let her go, given what we now can see, given what we can hear and given that the
autopsy showed she was two to three times the legal alcohol limit?
BRIAN ANDERSON, FATHER: No. We do have some people looking into that just to try and find out where she got the alcohol. We know she had not drank
anything prior to going to work that night. She`s 20 years old, was walked to her vehicle at 4:00 o`clock in the morning. So that`s one area of
concern.
[20:10:04]And then, obviously, the actions of the police officer and all the red flags that were there. We`re looking into that, too, to try and
really determine what he was really thinking because based on the video and both the dashcam, as well as QuickTrip (ph), there were so many obvious
signs.
And I know any one of us that would be driving the wrong way at an intersection at 4:30 in the morning, going from one bar to another bar and
telling him that, and then being told to go collect yourself -- it`s unbelievable.
BANFIELD: So Brian, the reporter we just spoke with, Ian Cummings, said he knows who the officer is, that it`s a matter of public record, but it`s not
being published yet. Do you know who the officer is? Have you had a chance to speak with this officer? Has the officer explained to you why he
let your daughter go that night?
BRIAN ANDERSON: We have not spoken to anyone. We`re aware of who the gentleman is, but we`ve not requested or been given access to him at this
point. That`s something for...
BANFIELD: So Liz, if I can ask you, for the two months that Toni was missing, this was an excruciating time. And you were both very supportive
of the police as they did everything to look for her. Ultimately, then they found her. But they knew about this video. They knew about this
traffic stop. And you didn`t. And they didn`t share it with you. And when you did see it for the first time, what was your reaction?
L. ANDERSON: I wanted to throw up. Like, I just couldn`t believe that, number one, somebody could let her drink that much and let her go, and then
she gets pulled over by the police and they did not arrest her. Clearly, she was intoxicated.
BANFIELD: Did you feel, though, as though the police had held critical information from you for those two months, which you were so supportive of
their efforts to find her?
L. ANDERSON: I wish they would have shared that information because it was pure hell for us. We had so many thoughts of so many horrible things that
could have happened to her, and it was an endless nightmare. And unfortunately, the nightmare just keeps continuing because of the lack of -
- I don`t know what the word would be -- some people`s judgment or thoughts. And you know, I mean, just -- we want answers.
BANFIELD: So in looking at the new video that we`ve now aired tonight from that QuickTrip convenience store, when Toni is inside the store, it doesn`t
appear that there`s anything wrong with her. She`s not stumbling. She doesn`t look confused. She`s not tripping. She looks to the ordinary eye
as though there`s absolutely nothing wrong. But you`re her parents.
B. ANDERSON: And that`s, Ashleigh, only a small portion of the video that we saw about a month-and-a-half ago. We had all of the surveillance
cameras both inside and outside of the QuickTrip throughout the entire store. And it`s a much longer video. And it was very apparent to us.
We actually multiple times, when we first viewed that, asked them to stop the video, and at one point, finally asked what the results of the
toxicology report were because they didn`t share that information with us up until that point, and because Liz and I just looked at each other and we
knew.
There was a lot of bobbing, a lot of weaving, a lot of just random around the store, so that what was put on line yesterday or the day before is a
very small piece of all of the video that I believe explains a lot more of her action and condition at that point.
BANFIELD: So Liz, at the beginning of this interview, your husband said that you have -- you`ve been talking to counsel. You`ve been assessing all
of your options. Does that mean a wrongful death suit?
L. ANDERSON: We don`t know yet. We`re still exploring those options.
BANFIELD: If that is an option, does it include the police who let her go?
L. ANDERSON: Yes.
BANFIELD: Any other parties that you can allude to tonight?
B. ANDERSON: Well, her place of work. They were aware that she was underage, and they had shown us video, as, well inside the club, security
footage of her drinking at work throughout her shift. So that`s where it was (INAUDIBLE)
BANFIELD: My heart goes out to the both of you. And I can`t thank you enough for talking with us tonight about this because I think there is a
great civic interest in what happened to your daughter and why things played out the way they did that night. I really appreciate it, Liz and
Brian. Thank you so much for being here tonight.
[20:15:10]L. ANDERSON: Ashleigh, thank you for doing such a great job. Thank you.
BANFIELD: Our appreciation goes to you. I think you`ve endured more than your fair share.
I want to bring in now, if I can, from New York, Joey Jackson, defense attorney, and from Los Angeles, Margie Mow. Joey, I want to begin with
you. Just your assessment of the facts as you`ve seen them play out.
JOEY JACKSON, HLN/CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Assessment is as follows. Number one -- and I don`t mean to be inflammatory. Certainly, our hearts, our prayers
-- it`s painful to watch the interview with the family. But you look at the way that this girl, young lady, was treated, and then we look at
another video that we saw yesterday like Philando Castile and see him shot seven times -- that`s an issue for another day.
But when you look at this, it speaks to me and smacks of personal responsibility. And we can blame police officers for exercising their
discretion, letting people go. Or we could say, You know what? She looked like she was walking fine, the officer made a judgment assessment, either,
A, giving her a break, or B, not realizing that she was drunk.
And how, by the way, do we know about the issue of causation? How much did she drink after that encounter? She clearly went in there to purchase
something. And as a matter of public policy, are we now going to hold police accountable and responsible for all ills that befall humanity
because they say, Go ahead, go home, and something happens? I don`t see it happening. If a lawsuit is filed, I do not see it being successful at all.
BANFIELD: Well, Margie, but for her driving away from that stop, when she was slurring and giggling and she was -- it was proven to be through the
toxicology reports -- drunk, two to three times the legal level, with other substances in her system. But for being let go, she`d be alive today.
Isn`t there something there where these parents have a right to say, You could have stopped her? You should have stopped her. You didn`t, and
she`s dead.
MARGIE MOW, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And my condolences go out to the family, as well. That was very painful to watch. However, looking at the video, as a
reasonable officer, when you look at the stop, the officer didn`t know how long she had been there. It was raining. And she acted just like any
normal person would act when they get pulled over. It`s a very nerve- racking situation. You`re scared. He obviously didn`t think that she was three times over the legal limit because if he had, he would have had
pulled her over. He would have arrested her. He would have had her do an FST.
It doesn`t look to me like she`s acting like a person that`s that intoxicated. And like Joey says, she could have drank after the incident.
She could have used cocaine after the incident.
But more importantly, officers have immunity. They have qualified immunity. And if he acted as a reasonable officer in this situation would
have, which I believe he did, unfortunately, there`s no liability.
BANFIELD: Well, we`ll see that standard of being reasonable. We`ll see if a jury is asked to judge that reasonability, if that, in fact, ends up
being a civil case. Thank you to the both of you. I`m going to ask you to stay, if you will.
In Oklahoma, a woman who was molested as a child found out that this man, her convicted attacker, is now her next-door neighbor, and it`s all
completely legal. How does this happen?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:02:42]BANFIELD: You probably could not title a Hollywood thriller any and better than "The Sex Offender Next Door," but it`s no movie for
Danyelle Dyer, who has to look out her window every day to a sight she should not be seeing, the man who molested her when she was just 7. He`s
now her neighbor, and there`s absolutely nothing she can do about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANYELLE DYER, VICTIM: He`s, like, right there in my -- like, practically in my back yard. And that kind of makes me nervous and it makes me not
want to go home ever.
LAURINE DYER, MOTHER: When you have to see it, I can only imagine what it does to my daughter when she`s there and she has to witness it, and she
shouldn`t have to.
GREG DYER, FATHER: Not only is my daughter feeling her past come back to haunt her, but a lot of years of rage and anger that I`ve kept under my
collar is sitting right outside my door.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Meet Harold English. Ever since he was sprung from jail for what he did to Danyelle, he`s living with his mom next door. And although
Harold is not allowed to live near any day care or school or playground -- his victim`s house, well, that`s absolutely no problem. And tonight
Danyelle and her family are fighting to change that.
Scott Mitchell is the host of Mitchelltalks.com. He joins me from Oklahoma City. Scott, why on earth is it OK in that state for that man to live
beside his victim when I think in Alabama, Arkansas, Tennessee, Utah, West Virginia restricted sex offenders absolutely cannot move in beside their
victims?
SCOTT MITCHELL, MITCHELLTALKS.COM (via telephone): Well, it is obviously a big oversight. A very few states have taken issue with this and have done
something about it. And because Danyelle really is a hero because she`s speaking out, I think we ought to add Oklahoma to that list as soon as it`s
possible.
BANFIELD: Because of Danyelle`s efforts, because she has actually taken to advocacy about this?
MITCHELL: I don`t think there`s any doubt she did exactly what she needs to do. Instead of complaining about it, she contacted her representative,
Representative Carl Hilbert (ph), who contacted the person who would run that sort of legislation, the criminal justice chair, Scott Biggs (ph), who
is from southwestern Oklahoma. They`re already planning to close this loophole, and that`s because a young lady is a hero and has the courage to
stand up for her and other victims.
[20:25:14]BANFIELD: So here`s Danyelle Dyer. She spoke with my colleague, Erica Hill earlier today on her program "ON THE STORY," and she talked
about this very mission. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. DYER: I would love for -- to see the change of not only in Oklahoma, but multiple different states, of changing their laws against where sex
offenders can live. And I also -- I want there to be a change of -- I feel like nowadays, our society victimizes our victims even more. And I want
victims to know that, like, they shouldn`t be ashamed of what happened to them in the past. They should use that to make a difference. And that`s
kind of what I`ve decided to do with what happened to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Danyelle Dyer speaking today on Erica Hill`s program.
Derek Logue is a convicted sex offender, and he`s the founder of Oncefallen.com. That`s an advocacy group for sex offenders. He joins me
from Cincinnati. Mr. Logue, thanks for being on the program tonight. Does Danyelle have a reason to be upset because her attacker lives next door?
DEREK LOGUE, CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER: I have to respectfully disagree with her methods of dealing with this. You don`t put a huge sign in front of
your door and in front of your house encouraging vigilantes to come and attack your family.
She not only attacked the person that she`s mad at, she attacked the grandmother. The grandmother is listed on this big, gigantic sign saying,
Hey, vigilantes, come attack her, too.
No, I don`t agree with her method of doing things. I don`t agree that she should have taken this publicly. This is something that should have been
dealt with with the family. And the guy is not even going to be there permanently. The grandmother took him in specifically because he was
needing a temporary place to stay until he finds something more permanent. This not going to be a long-term solution.
BANFIELD: So this is Danyelle`s fault.
LOGUE: I`m not saying it`s her fault for what happened to her, but I`m not really excited about the fact that she went out and she`s done all this
stuff. She`s planning a protest. She`s trying to make his life as miserable as possible.
You know, when a person serves his time, that should be the end of it. I don`t believe in these laws, these ex post facto laws that punish people
after the fact. It`s very difficult for a person to come back into society and be a productive member of society when everybody is doing everything
they can to pass more laws to make it near impossible for a person to be able to do anything for themselves.
BANFIELD: So whose comfort level...
LOGUE: I mean, what to you want this person to be, homeless and on the streets?
BANFIELD: ... right now -- OK, no, I don`t think anyone should be homeless and on the street. That`s not definitely what we`re saying. But Mr.
Logue, whose comfort level is more important right now, the 21-year-old young woman who has dealt with the reality of being a 7-year-old and being
molested by her uncle for the last 14 years, or that uncle who needs the place to stay and chose, willingly, to move in next door to his victim?
Whose comfort level is more important here?
LOGUE: It`s not about comfort level. It`s about doing the right thing. It`s about doing what benefits society. You want people who have served
time to come out and be productive members of society. And right now, people who are convicted of sex crimes are more likely to be homeless, more
likely to be unemployed, less likely to have social support networks, less likely to qualify for the kind of benefits that help poor people get on
their feet. They can`t get jobs. They can`t get assistance. They can`t get a small business loan to go into employment for themselves.
And so they have to -- you know, unfortunately, it also means having to make choices that you wouldn`t want to do. You know, I`ve been homeless.
I`ve struggled. I`m on welfare. You think I like being on welfare? No. But sometimes, you have to do things that make you uncomfortable.
BANFIELD: So not -- notwithstanding...
LOGUE: And Danyelle`s going to have to learn to -- and Danyelle`s going to have to learn to do things to make herself uncomfortable, too, because...
BANFIELD: OK. Notwithstanding...
LOGUE: ... she`s talking about...
BANFIELD: ... the struggle...
LOGUE: ... wanting to be -- listen to...
BANFIELD: I`m just -- let me -- let me...
LOGUE: You know, I have a very poor -- I have...
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: You`ve got a lot to say, and I appreciate it. But notwithstanding the struggles of those who have served their time and have
been convicted of sexual offenses, the victims also suffer greatly throughout their entire lives.
They have huge percentages of suicide. They are often homeless themselves. They become repeated rape victims themselves. They are often homeless.
They are often jobless! And many of them suffer from depression for the very rest of their lives!
And this was not their choice! They didn`t choose to be the victims. But the offender, that man chose to offend! So who the hell do you support
here?
Who do I support? The thing about it is, I`m here to clean up the mess that society makes when they pass laws...
BANFIELD: The offender made the mess!
LOGUE: ... that continue to perpetuate...
BANFIELD: I didn`t make the mess! Society didn`t make the mess! The offender made the mess! Why won`t you own that? Why do you blame the
victim?
LOGUE: We have a system -- we have a system in place, a system of laws, that punish people justly, we hope, for people who do various offenses and
that`s not just sex offenses, murder, armed robbery, you name it. But the difference is, many of these people, many of the other crime types and also
all of the victims have services that they can go to to help them overcome the things that harms done them in life.
Lots of people who are on the registry have had harms done to them as well. The difference is people who are convicted of sex crimes get treated
completely differently and they don`t have the opportunities put before them. All they have are obstacles, way more obstacles than anybody else.
You can kill a person and not have to live a thousand feet from a place or not be able to get a job or not be able to.
BANFIELD: You can also be imprisoned for life with the death penalty when you kill people. When you kill people, you can also get the death penalty.
LOGUE: . go to certain places or be placed on a public registry. You don`t know if a murderer is living next door to you.
BANFIELD: But you know something? Listen. I mean, the fact that you think that convicted sex offenders deserve more rights than the people that they
harm for life, it`s a bit disingenuous.
LOGUE: I`m tired of hearing your rhetoric.
BANFIELD: It`s not rhetoric. The Department of Justice says that they have upwards of.
LOGUE: It is when you say -- listen, I have listened to people.
BANFIELD: . as high as 37 in some cases. Do you not recognize.
LOGUE: That`s a load of.
BANFIELD: . sex offenders and that victims worry about that?
LOGUE: Have you ever read a recidivism study in your entire life or do you just quote this stuff from the victim industry because.
BANFIELD: That`s the Department of Justice. It`s all of our department, not my department, not the victims` department, it`s your department.
LOGUE: Recidivism rates are not 37 percent. I don`t know where you pull it, you know, you need.
BANFIELD: Well, you should just let them know that.
LOGUE: Well, you know what? You bring me on a show like this and you bring a person on who is a lot more educated on this subject than you are. And so
you don`t want -- you know, you want to sit there and tell me about recidivism rates. There are dozens of studies that have shown that
consistency rates are well below 10 percent, dozens of them, not just one. I don`t care.
BANFIELD: I said upwards, Mr. Logue. And Mr. Logue, to suggest that you know more about this than I do because you molested an 11-year-old in your
life is ridiculous.
LOGUE: Now we go into the ad hominem.
BANFIELD: No, that`s what you did.
LOGUE: Why don`t we get back to the subject at hand?
BANFIELD: No, that`s not ad hominem. You did it. You molested an 11-year- old.
LOGUE: I`m not here to make this about me. You brought me on the show to talk about this subject, not about me.
BANFIELD: And you came on the show and you need to answer.
LOGUE: I have served my time. I have served my time. And I don`t have to answer to you or to anybody else except to the person that I`ve wronged and
the state. And I`ve done that on both counts. It is not your concern.
BANFIELD: Which is exactly what we thought for Danyelle, that he should answer to the person he wronged.
LOGUE: Since we`re talking about Danyelle, my concern is if this person wants to be -- you know, she wants to work in the medical field and work
with veterans and work with amputees, my concern is what is she going to do when she finds out that one of the people that she`s going to have to treat
is a registered sex offender? Is she going to be able to uphold her Hippocratic Oath or is she going to deny this person service because she
has a personal problem that she has not adjusted?
BANFIELD: That`s a hell of a hypothetical, isn`t it? We`re just going to jump to Danyelle being a nurse or a doctor and try to deal with the kind of
patients she gets. Derek Logue, I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you going head-to-head on this. I don`t appreciate you suggested Danyelle
needs to just get over it, because she was only 7, so it is not her fault that she was affected for life.
LOGUE: Apparently she needs -- apparently she needs to get some therapy and whatever she`s doing right now is certainly not helping her cause.
Vengeance is not something that ever goes away. All these laws do are perpetuate violence, perpetuate vengeance, they are not helping.
BANFIELD: I think the things that don`t help her are the opinions that you`re expressing right now. And anybody who is a victim of sexual violence
out there aren`t helped -- they`re not helped by the opinions that you`re expressing. You have the right to them. God bless America, but I have to
end it there. Derek Logue, thanks for being with us. We`ll be back right after this.
LOGUE: Well, I have the right to be right and you have the right.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Read any good spy novel and the classic cloak and dagger killing usually involves a giant villain with a black belt, a gun with a silencer
or an umbrella with a poison tip. That`s how the James Bond thriller usually plays out, but these plot lines are not typically found in Virginia
Beach. And yet on Valentine`s Day after a long day of work, Ellie Tran came home to a surprise attack in her driveway.
Out of nowhere, a man stabbed her with a syringe, jabbing it into her leg and running off. Ellie`s mom found her in pain and unable to walk. Ellie
told her that someone stuck something into her leg and that it hurt. Police say that something was cyanide and that cyanide killed Ellie within hours.
Home surveillance cameras caught the man who did it red handed.
He was dressed in disguise as a workman, but police say it was this man. Ellie`s ex-boyfriend and the father of her child. Joseph Merlino was
charged with murder. But his attorney said the person in the video could not have been Joseph because Joseph was nowhere near the crime.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
[20:40:00] RICHARD DOUMMAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The defendant was 2-1/2 to 3 hours away when this crime took place. We intend to provide evidence to
prove that at the appropriate time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Jane Harper is a reporter with the Virginian Pilot. She joins me from Virginia Beach, Virginia. Jane, his lawyer says he was nowhere near
the murder, but was there a period of time in which he could have made it a hundred miles away after the murder?
JANE HARPER, REPORTER, VIRGINIAN PILOT: I`m not sure. I mean, it`s a 2-1/2- hour drive. He says that he was there the whole weekend, that he was visiting with his mother and his brother, and the defense has indicated
that they will vouch for him.
BANFIELD: But there are reports that just back in December, something happened to Ellie from a man dressed in a wig and a dress, doused her with
a chemical in the parking lot of the nail salon where she worked and the reports say that that also was Joseph Merlino. What do you know about that?
HARPER: Well, she -- that was the second report that she has made against him. And it was in December of 2016. She said that she was leaving work and
got into her car, was driving away when someone intentionally bumped into her. When she got out, the other person got out, and doused her with this
caustic liquid.
And she said it was a man dressed as a woman and she told numerous people that she was convinced that it was Joseph Merlino that did it. The video
captured the incident and police have reopened an investigation into it.
BANFIELD: So this video of both of these incidents -- I want to bring in Joey Jackson and Margie Mow. Joey, first and foremost, the charge,
strangely enough it`s second-degree murder.
JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, CNN AND HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah.
BANFIELD: . which I`m not quite sure I understand because if you load a syringe with cyanide and you dressed in a costume and you wait on someone`s
driveway, isn`t that a definition of premeditated?
JACKSON: Certainly appears to be. Not only that, Ashleigh, but you look at the issue of not premeditation and you look at lying in wait. In addition
to that, you look at the plot, the plan, the scheme. And this to me seems even worse.
It`s one thing to take a gun and to end it, but to allow somebody to linger in pain, and I`m looking at the statute and it appears to be right within
the definition of the statute itself. So, I can tell it is willful, deliberative. If this is not willful, if this is not deliberate, if this is
not allowing someone to die in first degree, I`m not sure what it is.
BANFIELD: So, Margie, listen, they always have the option of upping charges along the way, maybe that`s in the offing, maybe not. But as far as the
identification goes, his brother says it`s not him, her family says it`s him. Don`t you need to just get a couple of co-workers and neighbors to
come in, take a look at the video and say, is it or isn`t it Joseph?
MARGIE MOW, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the interesting part about this case is that she did not identify him. She said that a man injected her with
something, that you would think that a woman who knows him so well, that she even had a child with him, she would know if he came up to her and
injured her, but she never said it was him. She said it was that man over there. So, I think.
BANFIELD: I need to jump in on that. And here`s why, Margie. If we were dealing with a typical scenario, I would say you`re right, but this might
be lost in translation because her mother is translating from Vietnamese when she says a man or that man, but it very well might have been just
something lost in translation.
She might have said, right there, as if someone seeing a man running away, should know that it`s that guy, not the other guy. But I mean, just to play
the devil`s advocate, it`s important when you`re talking about two languages being translated, that might get cleared up at trial, don`t you
think?
MOW: She did not say his name. I don`t think that would have been something that would have got lost in translation.
JACKSON: Spoken like a true defense attorney, Margie.
(LAUGHTER)
BANFIELD: If it`s on video, does it matter, guys? She`s dying after all, right? Does it matter what she said?
MOW: He`s not on video. There`s a man who is walking away on video. They can`t see his face. The victim didn`t see his face. How do you expect
anybody else watching a video that`s probably grainy and from a distance to be able to identify a male figure?
JACKSON: You know, I think..
MOW: I think there`s a big issue as to identification. I don`t think that they can properly identify him. Furthermore, he has an alibi.
JACKSON: That is going to be the crux of the case. But it`s not only the face. They`re going to look like how did he walk? What was his body type
structure? How tall was he? What did he weigh? Other things could be concerning and clearly show it`s him, but to Margie`s point, the alibi is
going to have to be looked into, but if he brings in oh, my cousin, my aunt and my mom, you know, it needs to be something a little bit more.
BANFIELD: Hey, by the way, guys, we are so early in this. We haven`t even looked at the forensic analysis of all his computer searching for, I don`t
know, cyanide or maybe there`s some transferred DNA. You never know. We`re early in the case, but it`s a fascinating one.
[20:45:00] Stand by if you will, guys, because I`ve got something to say about this Sunday. There`s an HLN original series that`s about to air. It
is fabulous. "Beyond Reasonable Doubt." That`s what it`s actually called. "Beyond Reasonable Doubt" takes a closer look at a 1986 cold case about the
murder of a young bride. Investigators always assumed that they were looking for a guy, but the DNA led them to a woman.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
LYLE MAYER, DETECTIVE: The suspect, I believe, was losing the fight. I believe the decedent got the gun away from the suspect. Afraid to shoot the
suspect. There was probably talk, there was probably screaming. It was obvious in the investigative process the suspect was panicking, losing the
fight, bit the decedent on the arm tremendously, a full teeth bite mark on the arm.
Obviously the decedent was in pain, in my opinion, dropped the gun. Suspect grabbed a porcelain statue and hit the decedent over the head, I think
knocked her out. The suspect then utilized a pillow, put it over the decedent, and shot and executed the person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: "Beyond Reasonable Doubt." Murdered bride. Airs this Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Coming up, we`ve got some new police video that we want to show
you. I mean, I don`t think it`s unfair to say this. It will absolutely break your heart. It`s some emotional moments after the police shooting of
Philando Castile.
You`ll remember he was in the car as his girlfriend was Facebook living this police shooting, and her daughter was in the backseat. And the new
video is after the shooting. That girlfriend and that 4-year-old daughter in the back of the police cruiser.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, please, no. I don`t want you to get shooted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: In Minnesota, a new look at some video that was released from inside a police squad car. And it shows the aftermath of the shooting of
Philando Castile. I want to warn you, it is heart wrenching to watch this. This is Castile`s girlfriend, Diamond Reynolds, along with her 4-year-old
daughter, who are in the back of that cruiser. Ms. Reynolds appears to be in shock, and it is her daughter who is the voice of reason trying to calm
her mother down.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s okay. I`m right here with you. Please stop saying cusses and screaming because I don`t want you to get shooted.
DIAMOND REYNOLDS, GIRLFRIEND OF PHILANDO CASTILE: Okay, give me a kiss.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can keep you safe.
REYNOLDS: It`s okay. I got it, okay? I can`t believe they just did that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wish this town was safer. I don`t want it to be like this anymore.
REYNOLDS: Please, Lord, give us a sign that Phil is okay. Please, Lord. I just need a sign.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And tell God that we need him right now too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Castile was shot and killed during a traffic stop in 2016, and the officer involved in the incident was acquitted of that shooting last
week.
Nationwide, police and EMTs are struggling to address the runaway heroin crisis. The sheriff of Lake County, Florida, is taking a very different
approach. He is firing a warning shot right across the bow of the dealers in his community.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
PEYTON GRINNELL, SHERIFF, LAKE COUNTY, FLORIDA: To the leaders, I say, enjoy looking over your shoulder, constantly wondering, if today is the day
we come for you. Enjoy trying to sleep tonight wondering if tonight`s the night our SWAT team blows your front door off the hinges. We are coming for
you. If our agents can show the nexus between you the pusher of poison and the person that overdoses and dies, we will charge you with murder. We are
coming for you. Run.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Charging dealers with murder when someone overdoses is a drastic change in legal strategy that we`re seeing more and more across the
country. Legal experts argue that establishing a suspect`s intent to kill someone is pretty hard to prove. But last month in Minnesota, this woman,
Beverly Burrell, was convicted in the overdose death of one of her drug clients.
So you probably heard the question, where do you work? It`s actually often the first question that people ask, but for a lot of people with
intellectual and developmental disabilities, that`s not an easy answer because it`s estimated that 70 percent of them don`t have jobs. Amy Wright
is a mother of two kids with Down Syndrome and she`s out to change that. And that`s why she`s this week`s CNN hero.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
AMY WRIGHT, CNN HERO: People with disabilities are the largest minority in the world. And yet they`re an invisible minority because most of them are
so used to being in the shadows.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your first latte of the day.
WRIGHT: Our 40 employees, they`re proud to be employed by Bitty and Beau`s Coffee. And they`ll shout it from the rooftops. It`s given them a sense of
being valued and respected in ways that we take for granted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:55:00] BANFIELD: If you are curious to find out how Amy is making this happen, please go to cnnheroes.com. And while you`re there, we invite you
to nominate someone who you think is changing the world to be a 2017 hero. We`ll be back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Less than a week after Bill Cosby`s aggravated indecent assault trial ended in a mistrial, his publicists have made an announcement. They
say the comedian is going to hold a series of town halls to educate young people about, of all things, sex assault. The meetings could begin as early
as next month. No details on how many town halls there will be or where they`ll be held and no details from the prosecutors either on when they
plan to retry Mr. Cosby.
[21:00:00] Thanks so much for being with us tonight. Thank you, by the way, to Margie Mow and Joey Jackson.
JACKSON: Thank you, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: "Forensic Files" is coming up next.
END
