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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Mom Set on Fire by Ex Dies; Lawmaker, Let OD Victims Die to Save Money; America`s Nightmare; Killer in Loose?; Shocking Video. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired June 27, 2017 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[20:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST (voice-over): After a two-year fight from her hospital bed...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Judy didn`t deserve what happened to her and didn`t cause it.

BANFIELD: ... Judy Malinowski has died from those burns she suffered in a gasoline attack.

JUDY MALINKOWSKI, BURN VICTIM: The laws of justice are just not fair.

BANFIELD: Sent to prison for just 11 years, her ex might now be facing death.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, he got 11 years. My mom, my sister and I all got a life sentence.

BANFIELD: Will Judy`s taped testimony haunt him from the grave?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He took away my mom. He took away the most precious and most gorgeous person everyone knew.

BANFIELD: Would a murder case be a slam dunk?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re in serious trouble.

BANFIELD: Overdosing drug addicts overloading the system.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The city can`t afford that.

BANFIELD: A harsh new reality as one town tries to surface from the suffocating costs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re talking $1.2 million.

BANFIELD: One leader says, OD on drugs, fend for yourself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of town because if you have an overdose, we might not come.

BANFIELD: He wants to force the addicts to pay for their rescues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What it does, though, I hope, is that it scares these people from coming to Middletown and doing drugs.

BANFIELD: Fourteen years old, she vanished walking her dog.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had her whole life ahead of her.

BANFIELD: Days later, her body found in a landfill.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody deserves this.

BANFIELD: Police won`t say how she died or even if it was foul play.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had no information that indicated that Caitlin (ph) was abducted or kidnapped.

BANFIELD: So why are they telling neighbors not to worry?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no information that leads us to believe that this is an ongoing situation.

BANFIELD: She is hobbling on a crutch, her ankle in a cast. Yet her boyfriend explodes in a vicious attack. It`s the video that will stop you

in your tracks. Now the man wants his sentence reduced. You won`t believe what she told the judge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help! Help me! Help!

BANFIELD: It`s the scream that may have saved her life. A home invader terrifies a naked woman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help! Help me! Help!

BANFIELD: How her quick thinking got him running scared.

Road rage at a whole other level. A biker kicks a car while driving on the interstate. When the driver seeks revenge, his plan goes sideways. How

did everyone make it out alive?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Hello, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.

There is no easy way to say this, except to just say it. Judy Malinowski died today. We have been following Judy`s story for two years, ever since

her ex-boyfriend doused her with gasoline and set her on fire. Judy survived, was rushed to the ER, and for 696 days, she has fought a painful

battle to survive. She endured roughly 60 surgeries until the doctors said there just was not another surgery that could save her. In fact, the fact

that Judy survived more than 48 hours is nothing short of a medical mystery.

But her mom says she hung on to see that her assailant and others like him have the book thrown at them. Judy`s ex, Michael Slager, got only 11 years

for what he did to her. And so that you know exactly how bad his attack was, Judy`s injuries were recorded.

And a warning, these are graphic images. They are disturbing to many. In every one of those 696 days in that emergency ward and in hospice, Judy was

in extreme pain as skin graft after skin graft failed. But summoning all of her courage and all of her energy, Judy spoke about Slager as best she

could at the time, in a whisper from her hospital bed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDY MALINOWSKI, BURN VICTIM: (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: While Judy was alive, Michael Slager agreed to an 11-year plea deal, the most that the state could throw at him. And that outraged Judy

and her family and her friends, and lawmakers, too.

So now, on the very day of her death, a senate committee has unanimously passed a law that would add six years of jail time onto anybody who uses an

accelerant in an attack that leaves a person disfigured or disabled. The full senate vote on this is tomorrow. Judy herself urged the senators to

pass it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:05:00]MALINOWSKI: Senator Hughes, House bill 63 should be passed because it destroyed my life, my family`s life and the kids` life, everyone

around us life. And the laws of justice are just not fair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Judy was just 33 years old and the beautiful mother of two daughters. Her own mother, Bonnie Bowes, is now left to bury the daughter

whose bedside she has been at for two years as her two granddaughters now grow up without their mother.

Glenn McEntyre is a reporter with CNN affiliate WBNS. He was at the senate judiciary committee meeting today that has approved the passing of Judy`s

law. So Glenn, first and foremost, how is Bonnie, Judy`s mom? How is her family doing on this extraordinarily difficult day?

GLENN MCENTYRE, WBNS: It is extraordinarily difficult, Ashleigh. I spoke to Bonnie Bowes this morning shortly after Judy`s passing. She was

distraught, understandable, a real mix of emotions. On one hand, Judy`s suffering for the first time in nearly two years -- her suffering is over.

She`s finally at peace. This is the first time she`s been out of pain in some 700 days.

On the other hand, there are two little girls who are missing their mother tonight and Bonnie Bowes facing the prospect of burying her daughter after

this long, difficult road.

BANFIELD: And there is this bittersweetness to this day in that the senate has listened. They have seen Judy`s story. They have watched her

struggle. They have seen her suffering. And this was a unanimous vote in committee to push this vote forward tomorrow to the full senate. Do they

expect anything but this bill to pass tomorrow?

MCENTYRE: All indications I`ve received are positive. This passed the Ohio house last month unanimously. It then worked its way through the

senate. It was passed out of senate committee this morning, just a short time after Judy`s passing. The legislators were unaware, the public was

unaware that Judy had passed. But it was right about the same time this morning that that vote was taking place. It now does go to the full senate

floor, where legislators tell me they are optimistic about its chances.

BANFIELD: I would imagine, optimistic. I just want to, if I can, play for our audience something that Bonnie Bowes, Judy`s mom, said regarding what

Judy thought about the law and about what it might do for those who come after her, who are victimized after her. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BONNIE BOWES, JUDY`S MOTHER: She said not even an ant should endure this. Not even a worm should endure, you know, what I`ve endured. And Mom, we

have to save, you know, someone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Glenn -- presumably, Glenn, tomorrow, if the senate votes to pass this bill, next stop, Governor John Kasich`s desk. When does that

happen, if it happens?

MCENTYRE: I don`t have any information on that. The legislature is right now in the midst of the state budget negotiations, and that`s kind of

dominating everything. So I don`t know exactly when it goes to the governor`s desk. But there is interest and motivation in moving this

through quickly in memory of Judy Malinowski.

BANFIELD: Glenn, stand by for a moment, if you will. Ron O`Brien is the Franklin County prosecutor. He joins me from Columbus, Ohio.

Sir, thank you so much for being on the program. Last we spoke, Judy was alive. And last we spoke, the prospect of her dying would change the

metric enormously for the man who attacked her. Tell me where your office is with regard to charging her assailant, Michael Slager, with murder.

RON O`BRIEN, FRANKLIN COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Well, you know, almost from the beginning, it was anticipated, due to the serious nature of her injuries,

that this day would come. We knew and Bonnie knew that sometime, we would be pursuing a homicide charge. And we have been committed from day one and

have worked with the family, with the police, the arson investigators and our coroner`s office to assure that we`re prepared to go forward with a

homicide charge. And I believe that will be presented to our grand jury as soon as we receive a preliminary autopsy report.

I did speak to our coroner, Anna Ortiz (ph), today to make arrangements for the autopsy to be done, which is necessary in a homicide case. But as you

know, we took a deposition a couple of months ago, also in anticipation of pursuing a homicide charge. So we`re committed to that and have been from

the beginning.

BANFIELD: I`m going to ask you about that deposition in a moment because it`s not just any deposition. This is more -- one of the more remarkably

unique depositions I`ve ever seen in criminal justice. It was the deposition of Judy in her hospital bed, on tape, under seal, in case she

died, so that she could testify at the murder trial where she were (ph) the victim. I mean, it is such a remarkable legal story.

[20:10:14]But before I get there, first to the situation at hand. Judy died this morning. Have you spoken with her doctors? Have you been able

to preliminarily determine that Judy died because of those burns, not anything else, the burns that she got at the hands of that man?

O`BRIEN: Yes, we`ve had contact with the medical personnel at the hospital all along. In fact, one of the doctors had to testify before the judge in

order to get the deposition ordered in the first instance. But we have had contact with the medical personnel.

As I say, I spoke with the coroner herself this morning. We are confident that we`ll be able to show that the injuries that were inflicted by Michael

Slager by dousing her in gasoline, lighting her on fire with a cigarette lighter -- that that will be the proximate result of her death and that the

medical personnel will so testify.

BANFIELD: You feel good about that. So this is really a fait accompli. This murder prosecution is what -- give it a percentage that it`s going to

go forward.

O`BRIEN: Oh, I think it`s going to go forward with a charge 100 percent.

BANFIELD: Wow.

O`BRIEN: We`re committed to doing that. And we actually have been preparing for this day for those some 700 days, unfortunately. And it`s

such a horrific crime and the injuries were so horrific that we were instrumental in actually the bill being introduced at the statehouse that

passed the senate today. And I testified last week in the senate in favor of the bill because of the penalty problem when you don`t have a death.

But certainly, we now have an aggravated murder charge based on the aggravated arson under our felony murder statute.

BANFIELD: So aggravated murder carries with it death. It doesn`t get more serious than that.

O`BRIEN: It can.

BANFIELD: Yes. Mr. O`Brien, will you pursue death penalty in her case?

O`BRIEN: Well, that`s something we will review. The man who is co-counsel on this case, who`s our arson prosecutor, is in a capital case right now

involving the murder of a police officer. So we do pursue those kinds of cases. However, we have a protocol we follow, and we`ll follow that in

this case, as we do every other case.

BANFIELD: I mean, if there were ever an aggravator, the suffering for 696 days would be a hell of an aggravator in this case, the pain and suffering,

the cruel and unusual suffering that this young woman endured for nearly 700 days. It sounds to me almost like it`s air-tight for a death penalty

case.

O`BRIEN: Yes. That would be -- aggravated arson is one of the aggravating circumstances that justify imposition of the death penalty. And that would

be at least aggravating circumstance per statute we would have to rely on.

BANFIELD: All right, Mr. O`Brien, the big question now -- the taped deposition that you got from Judy Malinowski in her hospital bed while she

was able to speak and while she was alive -- this is a huge legal row to hoe. Are you going to be able to get that deposition into court so that

she figuratively can face the man who did this to her and tell the jurors what he did and that it was no accident, as he contends?

O`BRIEN: We took the deposition for that purpose. We believe that it should be admissible. The criminal rules provide for depositions when a

witness will be unavailable. She obviously was anticipated to be unavailable, and as of today is.

We expect an objection from the defense. But we took the deposition, and Judge Michael Holbrook (ph) ordered it, not ruling on admissibility, but

said that we met all the threshold requirements in order to use a deposition in the absence of an unavailable witness.

So we think we can use it. We think it`s important. However, we think we also have a case without the deposition. But I`ve never had a case where

you could have literally the homicide victim testifying at their own prosecution of the offender.

BANFIELD: It is just simply remarkable. I thank you for being on tonight. And I really hope, Mr. O`Brien, you`ll come back on and talk to us as we

navigate through this truly remarkable aspect of what now you`re telling me 100 percent will be a murder case. Thank you, sir, and good luck. Good

luck with that prosecution effort.

O`BRIEN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: I hope you prevail without question.

Adding up the high cost of the nation`s heroin crisis on America`s small towns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you add up all of the money that we spent, I think, in 2016 handling overdoses, we`re probably talking $1.2 million. The city

can`t afford that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:15:04]BANFIELD: An Ohio city council member now wants addicts who are saved to pay up for their rescues.

And this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at these children that have to be raised by their grandparents. They don`t have no parents. You just can`t imagine

all these young kids just dying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Grandmothers, aunts, uncles, cousins dealing with the heroin crisis and the reality of a lost generation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Every time an addict ODs and is revived by a paramedic, it can cost up to $600. Multiply that by the addict who overdoses several times,

and then multiply that by the hundreds of thousands of addicts who are crushing and choking the budgets of small communities that can barely

afford to keep up with the calls, let alone the cost of the calls.

[20:20:04]What is a small town like Middletown, Ohio, supposed to do? ODs there have more than doubled since last year. Should they make the

taxpayer go broke shoving Narcan up the noses of the dying addicts in the streets, or should they refuse to save them, especially if that is a repeat

OD.

One city councilman says he has had it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN PICARD, MIDDLETOWN COUNCIL MEMBER: If you add up all of the money that we spent, I think, in 2016, handling overdoses, we`re probably talking $1.2

million. The city can`t afford that. We`re in serious trouble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: A million or two. Let me remind you that we`re talking about a city of 50,000 people, a million or two for the ODs. That`s Councilman Dan

Picard, and he is so frustrated at the gushing cost of Narcan rescues that he suggested that the EMTs maybe stop responding to the overdose calls,

especially the repeat offenders.

He`s recommending that rescued addicts make a mandatory court appearance and do community service to pay back what they cost the town. And if they

don`t show up, there would be no repeat rescue. He does admit that jail is not the answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PICARD: That doesn`t resolve the drug issue. What it does, though, I hope, is that it scares these people from coming to Middletown and doing

drugs. So I want the word to get out, Don`t come to Middletown and do drugs. If you come to Middletown and buy your drugs, you better get out of

town because if you have an overdose, we might not come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Sheriff Richard Jones is the Butler County sheriff, and he joins me from Hamilton, Ohio. Sheriff, thank you so much for being on tonight.

There are polarized opinions about what this councilman has to say. On the one hand, how could we treat addicts who are sick like this, and on the

other hand, how on earth are we supposed to bankrupt ourselves looking after these addicts? How do you weigh in?

RICHARD JONES, BUTLER COUNTY SHERIFF (via telephone): Hey, I weigh in with the councilman. When I go out and I talk to people, people are fed up.

Law enforcement, they`re stretched. The whole country is stretched. We -- we -- the police officers -- I won`t allow my officers to use Narcan. Most

police departments in this area do not and throughout the United States. It`s unsafe to be down on your knees, issuing the Narcan (INAUDIBLE) these

people don`t want you to be there. They don`t want you to take their drugs.

And some departments that do use it, a few around this area, maybe other counties over, in Ohio, they won`t use it unless there`s more than one

officer there. It`s unsafe. And we`re having people dying. The jails are full. The police are busy, the dispatching, takes away from people having

heart attacks, car crashes.

And these -- I`ve had three babies born in my jail to heroin users. And the last one was born in a toilet. And any politician that tells you we`re

winning this, they`re lying to you. We are losing. There`s no cure. A substitute drug, maybe that`s what they recommend. They spend 80 percent

of the money on treatment, and they spend 20 percent on education trying to get people not to do it.

The councilman is rightfully so frustrated. And people in the public, when I go out, people -- it would shock you. They have the same belief. They

don`t believe that these people should be administered this Narcan. Some of them are two, three, four, five times. And it`s through the entire

country. And we`re losing.

And so the councilman`s frustration, I agree with him. Don`t know that -- it at least brings it to discussion. There`s been so many drug groups and

meetings of the Governor Kasich, the attorney generals -- we don`t even go to them anymore. All it is is a sound bite. Nobody goes since nothing

gets done.

BANFIELD: So Sheriff Jones, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. I hear it in your voice. And I`m hearing it in a lot of voices. There is

anger and frustration. And it doesn`t sound right to say, Let them die. It just doesn`t sound humane. It doesn`t sound American.

But at the same time, I can see these people in these small towns saying, Don`t cut my kid`s kindergarten so we can save all these people with

Narcan, sometimes five, six, seven different times for the same person. But in Ohio, you`ve got that duty to act. That`s the law. You can`t pick

and choose between the patients. How do you get around that?

JONES: No, you can`t. It is the law. We don`t make the law, we enforce the law. And the paramedics and the medical people will continue to use

this. But it`s totally out of control. They`re sticking these needles in their arms. And jails are full. We have more women in our jail now

because they`re on this stuff. They have heroin parties now that they have designated Narcan people at the heroin parties to revive the people with

the Narcan that are at these parties so they don`t die.

(CROSSTALK)

[20:25:12]BANFIELD: You know, we aired a video last night on this show of a couple overdosing in a car. And when the woman came to just enough, her

first words out of her mouth were, I`ve got Narcan in the trunk, and she saved her boyfriend. And it probably took about four to six minutes and

two full shots of it. But from what we understand, it at least revived him.

Everybody said it was a panacea, that we`d rescue these people, these poor addicts who -- who are sick, who have a disease. But at the same time,

it`s enabling a lot of these addicts to keep going!

JONES: Yes, I don`t believe it`s a disease. Some do. They do this stuff. They choose to do it. They start on another drug. They graduate to it.

The American people are fed up with this. And you know, we`ve got kids. We`ve got things in -- kids start this stuff when they`re 13 years old.

I`ve had them that they`re -- where they get out of jail, their moms are waiting them in the parking lot so they can shoot heroin up together in the

jail parking lot.

BANFIELD: Well, I`m only going to disagree with you here, Sheriff. I do believe this is a disease. I do believe these are victims.

JONES: That`s OK.

BANFIELD: They are trapped in an evil they knew nothing about when they somehow got into it. Don`t go anywhere, Sheriff. Don`t go anywhere.

I want to bring Jill Stanley, a former prosecutor, in and Danny Cevallos, a defense attorney. They both have really interesting viewpoints on this.

You know, Jill, you don`t necessarily agree with the sheriff`s point of view.

JILL STANLEY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I don`t. Not only do I not necessarily agree, I wholly disagree with it, actually. I agree with the frustration.

I agree with these towns shelling out these moneys for these heroin addicts.

I wholly disagree. This is an addiction. This is a disease. This is a problem. This is sad more than anything else. And does any city, does any

state, does any town want the blood on their hands of a dead addict because they didn`t show up to court or because they didn`t want to go to their

house one more time? These people are suffering, and they need help.

I don`t agree. I`m sorry, I don`t.

BANFIELD: Well, I know that you have once brought up the comment that this is like telling the wife who`s been beaten regularly by the husband and

calls the police for a rescue, but then won`t testify against them. It`s kind of like saying to her, We`re not going to come to your aid anymore.

STANLEY: Exactly.

BANFIELD: But do you see this, Jill, as the same thing?

STANLEY: I do. I see it as exactly the same thing. So would anyone who`s worked in domestic violence. We know that we get repeat calls. We hear

from the same women over and over. And it is frustrating for prosecutors to provide guidance, to write up reports, to try to bring someone to

justice, and then you do not get the cooperation of the victim.

BANFIELD: Well, what`s the answer then? Because you know what? At some point, we can`t afford anymore Narcan. At some point, we can`t afford any

more EMTs. And like Sheriff Jones said, at some point they`re not going to put themselves at risk of getting stabbed in the neck when they crouch down

over the nose of the addict who`s passed out.

STANLEY: No doubt this is a complex situation, bringing in so many aspects of humanity. And it is sad, it is a problem, it is an epidemic that needs

addressing, but...

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Those are platitudes. I need answers. So Danny, what do you think about say, I don`t know, what about upping the drug dealers and life

in prison for drug dealers, so that all of a sudden, if you`re coming to Ohio and you want to deal your junk, you`re going to be looking at life?

Or push maybe further on the murder, the causation to murder. If you deal drugs, and your client dies -- Danny, weigh in on this. What is the

answer?

STANLEY: Can I take you one step further with that, Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: Real quick. Real quick.

STANLEY: (INAUDIBLE) ABC commission -- the Alcohol Beverage Commission, they can take away licenses from restaurants, from bars that they know are

known drug havens, where the dealers go to sell their drugs.

BANFIELD: Not enough. Not enough.

STANLEY: The city manager in that very town, in Picard`s very town, had come out and say, We know where these drugs are being sold, that will help.

That will be one step...

BANFIELD: Yes. Good luck with that. I think they say that about a lot of the gun towns where there are gun runners coming in and selling them even

though the laws are there to protect them.

Danny, weigh in. What`s your answer, Danny, real quickly?

DANNY CEVALLOS, HLN/CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Number one, you mentioned mandatory minimums. Those are a different concept. We`ve shown they don`t work.

This is a different idea. This is about, what do we do with all of our limited resources. You know, if you take Jill`s approach, while we`re at

it, why don`t we stamp out things like sadness? Why don`t we stamp out hunger? Why don`t we stamp out frustration when we get bills in the mail?

Why don`t we stamp out everything?

Listen, we have to draw lines. Medical resources are finite. They are limited. We only have so many of them. And there`s no question -- I see

it every day in court, the opiate addiction has created such a burden on the system, you could almost say -- and I`m sure Jill would agree...

BANFIELD: You know what?

CEVALLOS: ... there`s almost a separate universe...

BANFIELD: I`m going to tell you right now...

CEVALLOS: ... for all the drug and opiate cases.

BANFIELD: I`m going to tell you exactly what the burden is on Middletown. Their budget for Narcan for 2017 was $10,000.

[20:30:00] Put up the population, folks. I want to see the population, Middletown, Ohio. Middletown, Ohio, 50,000. You can sit them in Yankee

Stadium. You can sit all of Middletown in Yankee Stadium. Okay? Their budget was $10,000. They are on track right now to hit $100,000 for 2017 in

Narcan.

Sheriff Jones, you heard a few things I threw out there. The death penalty. I mean, if you`re going to kill someone with your junk by selling it to

them, go after them for murder. What about the dealers? Life in prison? Are these solutions that just won`t work?

JONES: Won`t work. Scared of going to prison. Scared of being on the death penalty. Won`t work. 76 percent of all the illegal drugs come to the United

States. It is supply and demand. Pretty simple. You squeeze the balloon here, it goes over there, and it`s not like cancer.

As one of your guests said, it`s like having cancer. This is nothing like having cancer. People don`t choose to have cancer. People do choose to do

drugs. They do it on their own. They don`t work. They`re not a functioning person in society. Do they deserve to die? No.

BANFIELD: Sheriff, addiction is not a choice. Sheriff, addiction is not a choice.

CEVALLOS: Hold on. Hold on a second.

BANFIELD: Danny, jump in on here.

CEVALLOS: Well, that`s the problem, Jill, is when you say things like addiction has no choice involved. Of course it does. It`s not the same as a

heart attack. There is an element of choice involved in addiction. That`s why people like in law enforcement are frustrated with it, because on some

level, at some point in the beginning, a choice was made.

BANFIELD: Danny, I`m not disagreeing with being frustrated. I get that. I`m not disagreeing with frustration. I understand it`s frustration.

STANLEY: I`ve got to wrap it up, guys.

BANFIELD: But addiction is a disease. It is not a choice.

STANLEY: You know what, this is.

CEVALLOS: Those are just words. These are real problems that we have to deal with, and they`re choosing to allocate the resources elsewhere.

BANFIELD: Great conversation. You know what, these are the conversations we need to be having right now in this country, because it is at epidemic

levels, not just in Ohio. Sheriff Jones, I want to have you back on. Can you come back on the show and talk about this?

JONES: Sure, any time, mam.

BANFIELD: Sheriff Richard Jones joining us. Jill and Danny, I need you guys to stick around. Right now, we see the effects of heroin on children all

too often. Parents who are passed out in the cars, kids left with nowhere to go. What about the grandparents? We don`t talk about them very much.

Those grandparents are often stuck raising those little kids who are left behind by the addiction. At Cabell Huntington Hospital Neonatal Therapy

Unit, we met one of those such grandmothers. This is her story, and the story of the hospital trying so hard to protect those little babies in the

fight against heroin.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN LOUDIN, MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF NEONATAL THERAPEUTIC UNIT AT CABELL HUNTINGTON HOSPITAL: I`m Sean Loudin, medical director of the neonatal

therapeutic unit at Cabell Huntington Hospital. We see that this is hard on everybody. You can`t walk through our community and not bump into somebody

who in some form or fashion has had their lives touched by substance abuse disorder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Debbie (ph) and I live in Grayson, Kentucky. I have now four grand babies that I`m going to be taking care of,

because I have custody of three, and now I`m getting this little feller, so that will be four. She`s my daughter and I love her, and I tried to get her

help. It`s been a long time. I mean, she`s been off and on and off.

I mean, I do the best I can, but it`s just a never ending battle. She was addicted to suboxone. And I never known her ever doing suboxone, you know.

I mean, I knew she went to the methadone clinic and I got her off that. Now, it`s suboxone. I don`t know where she got it. But I don`t see her that

much. As a matter of fact, we never know she`s pregnant until she`s almost ready to drop.

Look at these children that have to be raised by their grandparents. They don`t have parents. You just can`t imagine all these young kids just dying.

And they know -- I mean, they know about the heroin and the meth, about how it`s going to -- I mean, it`s like -- I always say it`s like playing

Russian roulette. This is not going to get better, it`s going to get worse. I mean, it just gets worse everyday.

LOUDIN: Frankly, heroin is cheap, and now unfortunately readily available in every community. And so, it`s a form of an opiate, that, frankly, people

are using so they just don`t get sick. Sometimes folks are using heroin not to get high, but to, frankly, just function.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does the future look like for you and your family? In the next five years?

[20:35:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll still be raising the children. I will probably raise them until -- probably until the day I die. I want her to

have them back, and -- but I don`t see it. I always feel -- me and my girls all feel the same, if you don`t get clean for your children, then you won`t

get clean.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Thanks to Drew Aiden (ph), the producer on that report. This Thursday, a "Primetime Justice" special report, heroin, America`s

nightmare. It premieres at 8:00 p.m. eastern time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: If you have a dog, you probably don`t think twice about your teenage kid taking the dog for a walk especially if it`s still light out.

[20:40:00] In Bedford, Texas, Kaytlynn Cargill`s parents say that`s what she was doing the last time they saw her. Fourteen years old, she took the

dog for a walk, and when she didn`t come back 30 minutes later, they went looking for Kaytlynn. About an hour later, they called the police. The

officers say they worked some leads, couldn`t find her, but they did not issue an Amber Alert.

Posting this on their Facebook the next day instead. "At this time, we have no reason to believe she is in any danger. And we do not have any reason to

suspect foul play is involved in her disappearance. Due to this, an Amber Alert is not authorized. The day after that, somebody did find Kaytlynn.

She was not at a friend`s house. She was not in another apartment at the complex where they live.

Kaytlynn was found in a landfill. But maybe more surprising than the location of her body, the police are not calling this a murder. All they`ll

say is, it`s a death investigation. And that they don`t believe there`s a risk to the community as they wait for more information from the medical

examiner. But that explanation did not sit well with reporters, who were covering the story, and people in that community.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would you say to families all across (inaudible) who see this case and think of their own children and wonder if there`s

someone still out there who did this to Kaytlynn and who could be a threat to their kids?

JEFF GIBSON, BEDFORD POLICE DEPARTMENT CHIEF OF POLICE: Right now, we have absolutely nothing that points to a risk to our community in terms of

further danger. We have an unknown situation at this point. There is not a suspect or a person of interest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then how can you say there`s no threat to the community?

GIBSON: We have no information that leads us to believe that this is an ongoing situation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So if you don`t know -- if a lot of it is an unknown situation, how are you so comfortable telling the community that there`s

nothing to worry about if it`s that big of a mystery?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What solid thing could you say to the community that gives them no worries?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to her and how did she end up in a landfill and how was she taken there? Dis she end up in a dumpster, you

know what I mean? How does that happen without an offender somewhere?

GIBSON: Let me close by saying this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, sir, you`re saying you don`t know if this is a child predator. You don`t even know if she was assaulted sexually. So if it

is a child predator, which are often repeat offenders, how can you tell the community, you don`t have anything to worry about?

GIBSON: What we can tell you is we have nothing that points to what you are indicating at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe that she was killed by somebody?

GIBSON: Well, we simply can`t answer that question. We just don`t have that information. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Pat LaLama is the managing editor of Crime Watch Daily. She joins me from Los Angeles. They are all really good questions. I really don`t

feel like I got the answers.

PAT LALAMA, MANAGING EDITOR OF CRIME WATCH DAILY: You know, Ashleigh, they got to cut that law enforcement person a break. First of all, this is a

very, very fluid situation. Law enforcement works cases. They don`t work magic. This just happened. They`re probably getting a lot of different

stories. Stories are changing. It`s incredibly fluid.

They did in fact put bulletins out in the local community, automated telephone calls. They put the information into an international database.

Just because they did not do an Amber Alert does not make them inadequate. The fact of the matter is, if we called Amber Alert every time there was a

missing teen, we would misuse the system and it would be crying wolf and people would stop paying attention.

There are specific protocols. And I think these officers are caught in the middle, perhaps not used to doing high-profile media cases. They`re trying

to appease the public, make them feel calm.

BANFIELD: Okay. I`ll give you that.

LALAMA: And by the way, Ashleigh, one other thing, they may know things that they are not at liberty to tell us.

BANFIELD: Ah, that`s where I was going.

LALAMA: The media, much as I love the media, they get off his back.

BANFIELD: Okay. So I am going to give you the whole business of the Amber Alert. There are a lot of specifics that a case has to meet in order for an

Amber Alert to kick in, so it doesn`t become white noise to the public.

But, now that we know this little girl is no longer missing and she was in a landfall, to hear that chief say, we have absolutely nothing that points

to a risk in our community in terms of further danger, that`s disquieting to me.

I guess the question is, with that sort of a response, and a girl in a landfill, because nobody just goes to a landfall and trips and dies, is

there a method to their madness in some way, Pat?

LALAMA: You know, I`m going to use my 40 years of covering crime and just my instincts, Ashleigh. I know you can relate to this. You get instincts,

and I`m certainly not saying I have any clue who`s responsible for the demise of this darling little tomboy.

[20:45:00] She`s just absolutely adorable. But I do feel that oftentimes law enforcement does have the right to -- because life and death is a lot

more important than us getting our stories on the air by deadline. And I just think that those media folks, I`m not disrespecting them, they do ask

the questions, but they`ve got to understand that this is a fluid and quick situation, that these cops are forced to be put in.

They don`t know enough. I can already tell you, I`ve seen inconsistent media reporting. I saw one story that said that the family put out a flier

that said that -- that actually said she asked someone to watch the dog and that she would be right back. Then another media report said something

entirely different, that the dog was found at the park tied up. So I think everyone`s trying to jump and be the first on the air with the newest

information.

BANFIELD: I understand.

LALAMA: You need to give these cops some time.

BANFIELD: You know, if I live in that community, I would prefer the cops to say, I can`t answer your question at this time. This is an investigation.

Instead of, everything good, nothing to see here. I think that`s the only thing that had people freaked out. Pat, first of all, I can`t believe you

just said you`ve been covering crime for 40 years. When did you start, when you were 2?

LALAMA: Bless you, darling.

BANFIELD: Thank you for being on tonight. We`ll see you again. Pat LaLama, joining us, Crime Watch Daily. There is this sickening, sickening attack

that we saw caught on camera. And when it came time for the trial of the man who did it, the girlfriend who was victimized in this unbelievable way,

the mother of his infant son, who, by the way, she`s pregnant with right there, pregnant, she testified she didn`t want him to go to prison. Wanted

him out of jail. So it is a damn good thing that that judge wasn`t having any of it. We`ll let you know what the judge said instead.

[20:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Convenient store clerks have pretty much seen it all. They can spot things before things happen. They see them coming. But the clerk in

Roanoke, Virginia had no way of knowing what was coming and when you see this surveillance video, I doubt you are going to see it either. And I want

to warn you, this is disturbing.

The surveillance video shows Jamar Woody and his girlfriend, Shatory Irving, having a bit of a discussion at the counter. As Shatory begins to

walk towards the door on her crutch with a broken ankle, this happens. Jamar (inaudible) her. He`s not done. He hits her over and over again.

Kicks her. Repeatedly. Did I mention she`s three months pregnant with his child?

She`s on the ground. He kicks her repeatedly, punches her some more. About four times, maybe more, hard to tell. That clerk really can`t seem to get

him off his girlfriend. But eventually gets him shooed out the door. Looks like he`s going in for another round, but no, finally decides to leave.

After that he was charged with aggravated malicious wounding.

And he went to trial. As you can imagine, one of the jurors gasped while watching the video. Another one had to look away. One juror even cried. I

mean, look at this attack. She`s three months pregnant with a broken ankle. He was found guilty. He was sentenced to eight years in prison. But it was

the victim, that woman, who turned up as his only witness, the defense`s only witness, that had the jaw-dropping moment in court.

Donald Caldwell is Roanoke commonwealth attorney and he joins me from Roanoke, Virginia. Mr. Caldwell, thank you so much. She has testified that

she didn`t have any permanent injuries, even though there was a multi-inch gash in her forehead that required stitches. She refused to acknowledge

that was her in the video. She even refused to acknowledge the pictures of her post-op swollen and bruised and bloody. Why on earth did she back this

man?

DONALD CALDWELL, ROANOKE COMMONWEALTH ATTORNEY: Actually, I have a good explanation for that. I think that the prosecutors around the nation would

be on to something in one of your earlier segments, one of the individuals that was speaking, voiced the frustration that prosecutors across the

country have, where you have people who are victimized as this woman was and yet their loyalty to the abuser supersedes their own interests. I have

no good explanation for that, but it`s something the prosecutors across the country deal with every day.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you if it falls on deaf ears with juries? I mean, I look at it, and he could have had between 5 and 20 for his sentence. He got

8. The jury recommended 8 and the judge accepted 8. Is that because Shatory went so easy on him as a witness, or do they even listen to a woman like

that?

CALDWELL: I think the jury does. This was a jury trial. And the range of punishment for malicious wounding in Virginia is 5 to 20 years. The jury

came back with an 8-year recommendation which ironically is only two years above the sentencing guidelines for Mr. Woody.

Mr. Woody is a multi-time convicted felon and was on probation at the time. So the jury sentence was very close to what would have been recommended if

he had come in and entered a guilty plea.

BANFIELD: Were you expecting the judge to actually reduce the aggravated malicious wounding down to malicious wounding? Because the aggravated one,

he would have gotten 20 years to life.

[20:55:00] CALDWELL: That`s true, but the jury elected not to find him guilty of aggravated malicious wounding, which does require permanent

injury. Even though it`s just a hellacious beating, in the end, she was not that severely injured. And there does not, to the best of our knowledge,

appear to be any permanent injury to the child who does not even born.

BANFIELD: Right. And that is true, sir. But I mean the two to three-inch gash in her forehead that exposed a portion of her skull required seven

stitches. I mean, to me, I sure hope she`s his last girlfriend because I would not want to be the next one. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Donald

Caldwell for your work and for that prosecution. We`re right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: My thanks to Jill Stanley and Danny Cevallos for being with me tonight. Thank you, everyone, for watching. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Please

stay tuned, "Forensic Files" is coming up next.

[21:00:00]

END