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Report: WSJ Says GOP Operative Sought Clinton E-Mails from Hackers with Connection to Flynn; Multiple People Shot at Bronx Lebanon Hospital; NYPD Says Shooter Killed. Aired 3:30-4p ET
Aired June 30, 2017 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:30:00] STEVE HALL, RETIRED CIA CHIEF OF RUSSIA OPERATION: They have other ways of gathering information as well and that's the critical part, because if somebody like Flynn was indeed involved, somehow, with the Russians, even though it might be what the Russians would refer to as a cutout, that this guy who said, yes, I might be able to help you out and get you access to emails, that's still a pretty serious thing, but the investigative work that -- there's still a lot to be done. It's going to take a long time.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: All right. Shane and Steve, thank you so much. I've got to jump because we're just getting news of some breaking news here.
This is CNN breaking news.
New York Police Department is reporting out that multiple people have been shot at a hospital here in New York city. This is in the Bronx. The NYPD has tweeted out a message asking people to stay away from the area of Bronx Lebanon Hospital. So, this is what we have. NYPD tweeting out, due to reports of a shooting, avoid the area. More information to follow. This is the largest nonprofit health care system serving south and central Bronx, provides more than 1.1 million visits annually. This is what's happening right now. Roderick is on the phone with me, CNN law enforcement analyst. Art, talk us through what police are doing right now.
ART RODERICK, FORMER CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I mean, we're talking to the New York police department, which is one of the best police departments in the country when it comes to responding to not only active shooters but also terrorists events. I'm not saying this is a terrorist event, but a lot of times, the same activity you would see around an active shooter event you would see around a terrorist event. So, what you've got here, I'm sure they're going to have to put aviation up. It sounds like they have the streets around the area blocked off. Now they're going to have to determine is this -- are there individuals that are injured beyond the ones that they've reported, is this a barricade situation, is it a hostage barricade situation, I'm sure they'll bring hostage negotiators. They'll keep that place clear, try to locate his vehicle, find out what the cause of this -- this is going to be the big part of it is why did this individual do this, is this something related to a domestic event or is this something related to some other nefarious event and we just don't have all that information in yet. BALDWIN: I'm just thinking of all the patients and families who are
in that hospital. Art, stay with me. Tom Fuentes is with me as well, former assistant FBI director and one of our senior law enforcement analysts. How do they, Tom, all the while, they have police corps donning off the area, on the roof how do they safely and securely get these -- these are patients hooked up to tubes and machines, get them out, make sure they're safe.
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: For many of them, Brooke, I don't think they're going to be trying to get them all out. That could be more dangerous than anything for people that are critically ill that need to be hooked up and wired up in the hospital and not taken outside into 90-degree heat and nowhere safe outside. But a big part of this is going to be what do they have in terms of shooter or shooters, and if they have victims that are able to talk and describe who the person was and whether any of them knew the person or whether the person shouted out anything, was it a personal matter, we've seen some of these kind of shootings where someone has gone to either a school or a hospital out to get a certain person, that it was a personal matter. So, that could play into this also. But a big part of it is trying to identify, do they have one shooter, multiple shooters, is the -- is the crime scene, if you will, is that pretty much confined to that hospital area, or did the shooter flee out into the neighborhood and now, you know, you have a bigger concern for the whole entire area. How do you lock down the whole area if they don't know where the shooter is?
BALDWIN: Right. Well, apparently the reporting is, Tom, let me just jump in, the line from the police now is that they are actively looking for the shooter, so they don't know, at least, they're not publicly saying where this is.
[15:35:00] FUENTES: It's a huge problem because if you're talking about a building like a hospital that has -- that person is -- if that person is still in the building, they're going to have to look in every closet, under every bed, you know, all over the facility, the heating plant rooms, possibly the air ducts. So, that's a huge issue right there. If they can find witnesses that actually saw the shooter, and then can maybe describe if the shooter fled and saw him go out the front door, or they can give a physical description, so I'm sure the police right now are interviewing many key witnesses who will give them that kind of information, and they can dispatch that to the tactical units and other patrol units that have responded to the scene and give them an idea of how many people they're looking for, what they look like, clothing descriptions, et cetera, and try to piece together what happened here.
BALDWIN: How frightening this is? If you're just sort of tuning in and wondering what's going on, we're told by New York police that multiple people have been shot in this fairly large hospital in the Bronx, in the New York city area. Multiple people have been shot. We have no idea how badly, but they are telling us that they are actively looking for this shooter. Polo is standing by with more information.
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, we know the key question here is where did this happen, was it inside the hospital or outside. A spokesperson with the New York police department just confirming several or at least multiple individuals. We do not know, however, how serious they were injured and also, again, as we mentioned, don't know whether or not it was inside that hospital. We can confirm, according to information released by the New York City Police Department that this call came out of this active shooter sometime before 3:00 p.m. and they are still actively searching for that shooter, so again, a very fluid situation, but that's just some limited information that's been put out right now by authorities in the Bronx there, recommending that anybody in and around the area simply avoid it as they continue to track down the suspect involved here.
BALDWIN: Polo, thank you. Art Roderick, just looking at pictures of this, this building, it's massive. Multiple floors, you know, everyone's been in a hospital. The corridors, the areas where you need a key pass to get in. We don't know if this is somebody who actually worked at the hospital, someone who came in, someone who was visiting a family member, but when you're looking for a person, you know, it's almost like ant in a hay stack. How do you find the person?
RODERICK: Well, the security at these hospitals, they do this type of training, active shooter training, all the time. So, it is going to be difficult, I mean, if the individual has fired a weapon, I'm sure there's plenty of witnesses in the location to at least describe where he's gone to but it is an absolute worst-case scenario nightmare that this occurred in a hospital, in hallways, you know, that we don't know the reason. At this particular point in time, but you know, based on the social media information coming out from the PD, it looks like that, you know, they have the -- the situation controlled, at least as far as the hospital goes. Now it's just going to be a matter of making sure the patients, doctors, and visitors are all safe within that location.
BALDWIN: Tom Fuentes, we're learning that police are saying, avoid, obviously, avoid the hospital, the area around the hospital. Understand, you know, there are police all around neighboring buildings, presumably on the roof, in the green area adjacent to the hospital, going off of what just suspect descriptions based upon eye- witness accounts.
[15:40:00] FUENTES: Well, exactly. And they don't need more people showing up just to be nosy that are going to interfere with emergency vehicles that are arriving or interfere with other people calling in that, you know, someone running around is possibly the suspect and they're chasing people who are innocent. So, you know, they just don't want that. They don't need that. One of the other aspects is that you hope this hospital has extensive video surveillance system for security, in which case the security officials from the hospital as well as the police can be reviewing that and try to get a description and try to get a video of the person coming into either the hospital or running around inside in the corridors that's a good description.
Most hospitals have pretty extensive security because don't forget, they also, within those hospitals, have a large supply of narcotics that are tempting for people to want to come in and steal and of course the patients themselves. So you have a lot of things that go on in a hospital that make it very difficult for the police, very challenging, but hopefully that also means they have a more extensive surveillance system than the average workplace violence.
BALDWIN: This is, again, this is Bronx Lebanon Hospital in the Bronx here in New York. It is a level three patient centered medical home. E.R. gets about 140,000 visits a year. It is one of the busiest, we're told, in all of New York, and there has been a shooting within this hospital. Actually, let me be precise. We don't know where it was with regard to the hospital. We're just told it happened at the Bronx Lebanon Hospital, don't know where in the hospital. We know that multiple people have been shot. We know that the call came in right around 2:50 eastern time, so nearly an hour ago. Polo Sandoval, do I still have you standing by?
SANDOVAL: Right here.
BALDWIN: I presume these are live pictures, police presence outside. Tell me what more you're learning.
SANDOVAL: Some of the information we're picking up on social media from officials right now confirming some of these pictures and what we're seeing for ourselves here of this massive presence right now there in the Bronx at that location, which is 1650 grand concourse, which is the address of the hospital. We do know that the New York city mayor's office has been these pictures and what we're seeing for ourselves here of this massive presence right now there in the Bronx at that location, which is 1650 grand concourse, which is the address of the hospital.
We do know that the New York city mayor's office has been briefed on the situation down there and they are responding and encouraging anybody in the area to simply stay away. We do know they're actively looking for the shooter but we do not have much information on the current condition of the individuals that have been injured and also a very key question to -- that we'll have to answer here very soon here, Brooke, which is, where did this happen, was it in the hospital, or simply on hospital grounds. Authorities simply confirming that location, which is, again, at 1650 grand concourse, but as you may imagine, this is a very busy area there on this Friday afternoon.
BALDWIN: Polo, thank you. Harry is another voice joining us. You know, former NYPD detective, knows, sadly, how this goes. And so, Harry, we know that the police, the line is that they're actively searching for the shooter. But again, you know, in a building this massive, can you just walk me through -- harry, you're on CNN. You're live with me with Brooke. How much of a challenge is to it -- what are they doing, going floor by floor, trying to find the gunman? Walk me through what they're doing.
HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Basically, you know, they responded hopefully getting the wounded out of there, people that were injured. As they're talking to witnesses to see where the shots took place. So apparently it looks like they're going room by room to check this location to see if they can track down the shooter. The hospital is probably surrounded. They probably have emergency services on the scene. They're all geared up inside, going after this guy. We don't know too much right now. We don't know if it's a typical active shooter attack or some person that might have worked for the hospital. We don't know that as of right now, but I can't see any video. I'm out on the street. So, do you notice any ambulances leaving the scene?
BALDWIN: No, no. And you said --
HOUCK: Any video going on right now?
BALDWIN: We're looking at it live. These are helicopter shots, just looking at the building, a lot of police and flashing lights in the front. I saw some ambulances but they weren't moving. When you made your point, they would try to get the wounded out of there, I mean, this is a hospital. Would they try to move them elsewhere to another hospital?
HOUCK: I would, you know, unless they secured the emergency room, but -- and then they would utilize the emergency room. That's a very -- it's a very important question. We have a shooting incident that occurred at a hospital, we have a gunman that is still probably in the same location, being hunted by the police. Do we get our wounded out of there and if there's a hospital close by, I would say that's probably the best bet. I'm sure the doctors that were on the scene at the hospital started working on the people that were injured right away. So that's a good thing. But I would tend to think that if they can secure the emergency room, they would be utilizing that. So, the whole problem is how large is this hospital, and was it inside, was it outside.
BALDWIN: Yes, we don't know.
HOUCK: Did anybody see the shooter inside the hospital? See the shooter's last location. But the witnesses and then that's where the police would be following that and they'd be just doing a grid search through the hospital itself, trying to ascertain where the gunman is.
BALDWIN: Got it. Harry, stay with me. I've got Shimon on the phone. He's got some new information. What are you learning?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Brooke. How are you? Obviously, pretty fast developing story. So, what we're learning right now is that police believe the shooter is a former employee of the hospital. It's not clear what kind of work he did at the hospital, but I'm told by two separate law enforcement NYPD officials that they believe the shooter is a former employee. I'm also told that several people have been injured. They believe some of them have been shot, but it's still also unclear, because I'm not sure that police have been able to get to a proper search through the hospital, and also there's some concern that the gunman t the shooter, may still be in the hospital, Brooke.
[15:45:00] BALDWIN: Are your sources telling you, Shimon, where, within the hospital, this shooting happened? PROKUPECZ: No. That's not clear. Because most of the folks that I was talking to were just arriving on scene, and so obviously I couldn't get too much information out of them. But the little that they were able to give me was that they -- basically they believe this was a former employee and that people were shot, they just didn't know how many.
BALDWIN: Just one more quickly on the, do we know extent of injuries?
PROKUPECZ: No. That, I don't know either. I don't know how seriously wounded any of the people are. You know, it's kind of interesting because as I was talking to people, some people are still driving to the scene. Some others are there. But so, it's sort of the police have to now gear up and come up with a plan and sort of get in the hospital and figure everything out. And so that's sort of -- it sounds like that's what they were in the process of starting to do.
BALDWIN: Thank you so much for that nugget of information from your police sources. I'll let you hop off the phone and do a little more digging. Again, multiple people have been shot at a pretty busy hospital here in the Bronx. This is the Bronx Lebanon Hospital, it's one of the busiest E.R.s in all of New York, we're told. We just heard from Shimon, reporting that the shooter is believed to be a former hospital employee. Harry?
HOUCK: Well, you know, just as we had thought, that once -- we probably have the shooter now identified if it was a former employee, everyone's going to know who he is, he's probably been identified and the issue is that he knows the hospital a lot better than the police do, so it could be quite a task trying to track him down in the hospital area. Sure, an alarm had gone off and hopefully when the alarm went off, they were able to see who they were looking for and I'm sure the security in the hotel is helping the police because they can identify the shooter or help identify this former employee and the police are probably running to his home, his address, trying to execute a warrant to get in there and see if there's any information that they can obtain to be able to try to help why this person attacked a hospital.
So, like I said, it could be a little hard because you have a shooter that actually knows the hospital and was an employee there. So, it's going to be a tough task for the police to track him down unless he decides that he wants to engage them. We'll see a lot of instances like this also, we find that he could wind up killing himself also after he came in and committed the crimes that he wanted to, so whatever specific persons that he wanted to go after.
BALDWIN: They want him alive to prosecute so he obviously, so justice can be carried out here. Let me just point out, we've been talking to a number of different law enforcement voices, we are told that the president of the United States aware of this, according to the deputy press secretary and she will keep us posted there from the White House. Art Roderick, to you, again, on this nugget that this shooter who is still being actively sought, they don't know where he or she is, is a former hospital employee. You know, to Harry's point, this individual, in a sense, has the upper hand, knows the corridors, knows the twists and turns in the hospital, the back stairwells, the rooms, the sort of secret rooms. How do law enforcement work with that?
[15:50:00] RODERICK: Well, I think you know, knowing NYPD and their response, I'm sure they've ruled out every specialty unit, probably including the strategic response group that handles active shooters. They have heavy weapons. They have heavy body armor. They can handle situations like this. The odd thing here is now that we know the individual is a former employee, that kind of lowers the level, to me, in my eyes, anyway, that this is some type of act of terrorist issue. It could still be that way, but I mean, it sounds to me like, since we only have -- well, right now, it was reported a couple people injured, this very well could be some type of personal dispute, this individual had at the hospital.
So, but again, we're talking about a hospital, a multilevel building. I'm sure that security at that hospital is very well trained, has worked with NYPD, knows how to respond to these active shooter situations, and at this point, to me, this much time has passed by. It just seems to me that they know where he is, they're just not putting it out exactly what they're doing, where they have him cornered, and what they're doing, but they also probably have the hostage negotiators also rolled out to be ready to talk to this individual.
BALDWIN: Art Roderick, stay with me. Jason, what more are you learning?
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just a recap what we've been learning here, Brooke, this incident occurring at about 2:50 this afternoon. That's when reports came in that there was an active shooter there at Bronx Lebanon Hospital. We are hearing now that ATF agents are on their way to assist with that ongoing situation there. What we are hearing, multiple people shot at this point. Investigators there at the scene, law enforcement, looking for this shooter who was apparently seen with some sort of long weapon, agents are on their way to assist with that ongoing situation there. What we are hearing, multiple people shot at this point. Investigators there at the scene, law enforcement, looking for this shooter who was apparently seen with some sort of long weapon that he was carrying walking through the facility.
You've heard there from one of our producers who has indicated that perhaps this was a former employee that they're looking for. Again, the shooting did occur inside this hospital. Investigators at this point looking for the shooter as we speak. We should also note, for those who are unfamiliar with Bronx Lebanon Hospital, it's a very large facility here in New York city. 972 beds, last year admitted some 138,000 patients at that facility, so it's a large facility there. Also, private security at the hospital as well. They're well trained for these types of events, so they'll be assisting with this as well. Once again this is a situation that began just shortly before 3:00 this afternoon. Active shooter situation there at Bronx Lebanon Hospital. Brooke?
BALDWIN: It's one of those things, we've covered a lot of shootings, Jason Carroll, but I can't recall an active shooting situation at a hospital. When you think of we've all been in hospitals and this is sort of one of those last places where I haven't seen metal detectors. That's not a thing at hospitals.
CARROLL: It's one of those things anyone who goes to a hospital, obviously you're going there for care, for treatment, not one of those places you think a shooting is going to happen. So, sadly, we've seen shootings happen in so many places, schools, other types of facilities as well, and hospitals not seemingly to be immune from this as well.
BALDWIN: Awful. Jason Carroll thank you so much. Tom Fuentes, let me go back to -- art Roderick, let me come back to you. On the hostage negotiation piece, any time you have an active shooter, you have vulnerable people around just because of the presence of a gun. But we're talking about a hospital, people who are ill, people attached to machines, who are even more so vulnerable. How does that complicate things for police?
RODERICK: The big question here, is this a barricade situation or a hostage barricade situation? If it's just the shooter barricading himself, then obviously it makes it a lot easier for law enforcement to handle that type of scenario. If this individual has hostages, that just ups the ante through the roof, especially if you're talking about individuals who are injured or might need immediate care and they're not going to get to it because this individual has got them pinned behind some type of barricade. So, the hostage negotiation has to occur right away and it's got to occur fast if this individual does have actual hostages. Again, if he's barricaded himself, then they can take their time, assess the situation, find out what his issues are, why did he do this, and hopefully, you know, at the end of this we find out, if there's ever a silver lining to it, that this is just some domestic type scenario or an argument, some interaction between two individuals as opposed to a larger event.
BALDWIN: There were reports of people leaving the hospital hands up. I'm sure that's all part of the process of securing the scene. But how do you do that, given the fact that this is a hospital? You have medical equipment everywhere. Tell me about that.
[15:55:00] RODERICK: There are a couple different situations. Right off the bat you have law enforcement who is trained in how to respond to an active shooter, OK? That's one issue. So, they'll respond, they'll do their protocols. But then there's also a lot of training that has been given to these large facilities like hospitals, military bases, large government buildings where they treat this run-hide-fight scenario. So, the individuals that are working at these facilities have that type of training. The problem you have here is probably the majority of people that are in that hospital don't work for the hospital and they're there to receive some type of care, and that creates a whole different type of scenario for law enforcement. So, you're more than likely going to have a lot of employees there instructing the public on how to exit the building, how to get out of there, and pressing upon them to the run, hide or fight scenario, and that means they'll have to clear every single room in that building to make sure nobody is hiding in there. It's a tough situation, really based on how large that building is.
BALDWIN: I think to everyone's point, this is the NYPD. They're excellent, and to Jason Carroll's point, there's even private security there in the hospital. As we've been talking we got a little more news which is that four to six people believed to be wounded in the shooting at this hospital. This is according to a New York police department source. Tom Fuentes, if you are these hostage negotiator teams rolling in as they are actively looking for the shooter, once they find him or her, knowing that this person is surrounded by vulnerable hospital patients, how do you negotiate with this individual?
FUENTES: Well, it's difficult, and it's also going to be difficult if the shooter thinks he's already killed people, so it's going to be hard to try to make some kind of a deal and have the negotiators convince him that this isn't so bad, you should surrender now, it will be OK. He knows he's killed people, he knows things won't be OK, and the negotiators will have a credibility problem. The other problem, if you have a barricaded subject and they're in a hospital, the whole hospital becomes a hostage. You can't launch tear gas into a room even if the person is in the room by themselves. Launching gas into a room is going to circulate through the ventilation, so it's going to affect a lot of people who may be too sick to be able to cope with that.
So, you have a number of extra considerations in terms of the negotiating. And, of course, you're not going to be wanting to get into a gun fight or gun play like you would if you were out in the middle of the prairie somewhere and the individual was barricaded in a barn or something by themselves. The fact that it's in an urban area, a crowded hospital, a hospital having people who are too ill to just run out the door adds all kinds of complications. Then, of course, they still have to find the person for negotiation purposes. We don't know -- if they know who the person is based upon being a former disgruntled employee, then they'll have some leads as to where that person lives, who that person's friends are, what kind of vehicle they could be looking out for, if he came to the hospital in his personal car or public transportation. They would have a number of options to be looking at simultaneously more than just someone who came in off the street who is completely unknown and unidentified.
BALDWIN: If you are just joining us, we're talking to multiple legal voices here at CNN covering this tragic shooting here at this huge hospital in the Bronx here in New York. This is the Bronx Lebanon Hospital. There have been reports of shooting. It was an active shooter situation. The shooter has not been found. We're told, according to sources, that the shooter was a former hospital employee and up to four to six people have been injured, shot, but the extent of their injuries is unknown at this time. This is all happening so the pictures of the helicopter here, one of the biggest E.R.s of all of New York. We've been talking about the challenges of securing a scene such as a hospital where you have vulnerable patients relying on tubes and machines. As this is all happening, the challenges for police. I was talking to art Roderick about how you secure a scene at a hospital. Tom, same question to you. How do you secure a scene here?
FUENTES: Well, there's only so much you can do to secure it. If you have the police on the outside, assuming the person hasn't run away, oftentimes -- BALDWIN: Forgive me, let me jump in. We just got information. The
New York police is saying one shooter is dead. I don't know if there are multiple shooters, but I'm being told one shooter is dead. Go ahead, Tom.
FUENTES: It's interesting we don't know more than that, whether it's multiple shooters. Usually in a situation like this, it's just one shooter, a disgruntled employee, so the fact you only have one shooter and that particular shooter is dead, could mean now they only have to check the video cameras to see if one person was involved in this and maybe they could bring it to resolution quickly. But to your earlier question, it's very difficult to secure a building like this because you can't evacuate the building. You can't get off the --
BALDWIN: The patients.
FUENTES: Especially if they're hooked up to machines, you can't get them out of there. So, you have to face the fact a number of patients will have to stay in the hospital and a number of medical staff will have to stay with them to care for them. Yes, it's a very difficult situation. Hopefully we'll find out this has been resolved.
BALDWIN: Tom Fuentes, thank you very much. I've been talking To Harry Houck, Art Roderick, Tom Fuentes. At the Bronx Lebanon Hospital, one shooter is dead after this search for the shooter, after this individual apparently shot or wounded four to six people in this hospital. The extent of the injuries unknown. We're going to continue our coverage here in Washington. "The Lead" starts right now with Jake Tapper.