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U.S. on North Korean Missile Test; Trump Arrives in Europe; Officer Learns of Brother's Death; Putin Mocks Trump; Trump Faces Overseas Tests. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired July 5, 2017 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:06] Brooke BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
We begin with a potential nuclear showdown. The president of the United States is about to touch down in Europe for a series of meetings as his administration scrambles to respond to this first ever test by North Korea of this ICBM, this intercontinental ballistic missile. This marks a crucial advance in its arsenal. One the secretary of state calls, and I'm quoting him, "a new escalation of the threat to the U.S. and to the world."
Before the president left the United States, he again took to Twitter to call out China for its economic support of North Korea, tweeting, "trade between China and North Korea grew almost 40 percent in the first quarter. So much for China working with us, but we had to give it a try."
We also now have this new video of what Kim Jong-un calls a, quote, "basket of gifts for American bastards." The missile test by North Korea. This missile here that experts say could reach Alaska. Let me say that again, missile test that could reach Alaska and U.S. defense officials call a brand-new weapon never seen before.
Elise Labott is working this for us. She's our CNN global affairs correspondent.
And when you hear from Secretary Tillerson, you know, that the U.S. will never accept a nuclear armed North Korea, how has the U.S. responded to this?
ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, clearly, it's a game changer, Brooke. The U.S. called an emergency session of the U.N. Security Council today. I think what we're really looking at initially is maybe some kind of presidential statement of condemnation. But then the U.S. is really going to put the screws to the international community to try and tighten those sanctions against North Korea. And I think the U.S. is considering what they call second party sanctions, which is sanctioning Chinese companies, Chinese banks, and any other country that does business with North Korea, because, really, you've heard, you know, U.S. commanders, even Defense Secretary Mattis say that military action is really an unthinkable option. It's really the last option. So that diplomatic option starts with sanctions.
But also, I think, negotiations. And even though North Korea has launched such unimaginable behavior, I think the U.S. is really starting to think about what it would take for some kind of diplomatic option with North Korea because the alternatives are not very good, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Elise, thank you. We're going to come back to all of this.
Also, soon, as we mentioned, President Trump will be touching down in Poland ahead of this week's G-20 Summit in Germany. Nic Robertson is joining us now. He's a CNN international diplomatic editor, live from the host city of Hamburg, where we're told some protests are already breaking out. The president is scheduled to meet with China's leader. Do we know, Nic, how this missile test has changed even just President Trump's agenda and conversations with world leaders for this trip?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's certainly going to change his conversations with Xi Jinping. It's undoubtedly going to be at the top of that conversation. We know when he meets with President Putin, they're talking more about Ukraine and Syria. But you can bet North Korea's going to be part of that, partly because President Trump and Xi Jinping have already come to a conclusion on North Korea. They say the United States needs to stop its military activity in the region as well and remove its THAAD defensive missiles from South Korea. So that's going to be on the agenda there. Trade is going to be on the agenda. Climate change is going to be on the agenda. But it does seem that North Korea, the missile test there, is going to get in the way of some of the other conversations that would be had here.
I don't know if you can hear it over my shoulder, Brooke, but this is 7,000 people, the police say, that we're seeing in the street just over there behind me. This is a "I'd rather dance than go to the G-20" protest. This is just a tiny taste, a little precursor, of what President Trump can expect to hear when he gets here. Police last night had to clear away demonstrators with a water cannon, Brooke.
BALDWIN: I can believe it.
Thank you, Nic Robertson.
Let's have a big conversation about what about Nic and Elise just set up for us. Fareed Zakaria is with me, host of "Fareed Zakaria GPS."
And just jumping off of Nic's last point that Xi Jinping/Putin meeting happen to coincide with this missile test from North Korea. You know, they issued a joint statement. Are they totally pushing the U.S. and President Trump out?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": No. I think that the Chinese and the Russians have often kind of worked together or pretended to work together. No, I don't think that's the case. But I do think that, you know, the way that President Trump has approached this has been, first of all, to assume that just the sheer power of his personal diplomacy, that paling around with Xi Jinping, you know, giving him beautiful chocolate cake, taking him to Mar-a-Lago, this is going to make a difference.
This is a high-stakes game for the Chinese. The Chinese have - the United States has over 50 treaty allies. China has one treaty ally in the world, North Korea. It fought a war with North Korea, the Korean War, against the United States.
[14:05:11] BALDWIN: Yes.
ZAKARIA: So there are deep bonds there.
There is also a geopolitical reality. North Korea acts as a buffer for China, right? If you imagine what could happen if the Chinese were to push North Korea really hard the way the United States wants it to, the regime could collapse. You have 2 million, 3 million refugees pouring into China. You have a unified Korea, obviously on South Korean terms, meaning it's now going to be a pro-American, market- friendly, democratic country with 30,000 American troops, and 10, 15 nuclear weapons. That would be on China's border now. So explain to me again how China -
BALDWIN: I understand that -
ZAKARIA: How this is in China's interest. It -
BALDWIN: I understand that, but what happened to - and I realize it's been short lived, that the president's only been in the Oval Office for a certain number of months, but the chocolate cake, the tweet about President Xi recently, you know, China tried when it came to North Korea, the visit at Mar-a-Lago.
ZAKARIA: So the president's tweets are honestly incomprehensible because one day he says, you know, this - Xi Jinping is a good man. He's going to solve this problem. Then he says, you know, he - they never tried or maybe they tried. I don't know what he means by these.
What I think the underlying mistake is to view foreign policy as a branch of psychotherapy. That, you know, you just pal around with these guys. China has deep strategic interests here. You could alter that calculation and maybe the United States should really try to get the Chinese to figure out what would, you know, we want you to push North Korea. But if the regime implodes, we understand your concerns and here's what we would be willing to do. Maybe we agree that we would jointly go in and denuclearize, take all those nukes out so that the Chinese don't worry about it. Maybe you'd have to rethink the U.S./South Korea relationship in -
ZAKARIA: You know, those are the things that are going to matter. How well you get on with Xi Jinping is very low on the list of things that are going to change China's strategic interests.
BALDWIN: OK. OK. OK. Let me just read something to you. This is what Secretary Mattis said. This was in June. "The regime's nuclear weapons program is a clear and present danger to all. It would be a war like nothing we have seen since 1953, and we wouldn't have to deal with it with whatever level of force was necessary. It would be a very, very serious war."
Why do you think, if there were to be this war with North Korea, what would it look like? Would it be like a war that we have never seen?
ZAKARIA: Yes. It really would be something completely different. The wars we have seen over the last 30 or 40 years have been wars that are more like insurgencies. You know, you have an invasion and then you occupy the place and there's a little bit of fighting on, you know, a few thousand people. Think about it - I hate to put it in these terms - but compared with World War I, World War II -
ZAKARIA: These wars have had limited, particularly American casualties. Here you have South Korea extremely rich, extremely well- armed country. North Korea with a huge, fearsome army. And they would go to war. Seoul, the city - the capital of South Korea, is within miles of the border. There would be, you know, the casualty levels that people estimate are in the hundreds of thousands. There are 30,000 American troops there.
So this is industrial-scale warfare between two incredibly well-armed, disciplined armies. So this is more like World War II or the Korean War than it is like Iraq, Afghanistan. And in those circumstances, you have to remember, there are also nuclear weapons on both sides, in a sense -
ZAKARIA: Because the North has nuclear weapons and the United States, as South Korea's treaty ally, of course has nuclear weapons.
ZAKARIA: So not only are you talking about a World War II-type conflagration on the Korean peninsula, you have the possibility of a nuclear escalation on both sides.
BALDWIN: Which is very frightening to even think about. We'll have to walk through some of the options later on in the show with other guests. But for now, Fareed Zakaria, thank you so much for all of that.
Watch "Fareed Zakaria GPS" Sundays, 10:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m., here on CNN.
Thank you, as always, so much.
BALDWIN: Just moments from now, Ambassador Nikki Haley is expected to speak at an emergency U.N. meeting on North Korea. We will see how far the Trump administration is willing to go publicly against the leader there, Kim Jong-un.
Also ahead, backlash erupts after a Republican congressman takes these selfie videos inside the gas chamber at Auschwitz. Why? Just, why? And a chilling story here as murders are on the rise in Baltimore. A city spokesman for the police department there sees his own brother's name in a victim report. We'll tell you that story out of Baltimore.
[14:10:03] You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN.
A New York City police officer, a mother of three, targeted and assassinated. The nearly 12-year police veteran patrolling an intersection in the Bronx was shot in her head. Officer Miosotis Familia, just sitting inside of her car, that is when we're told this gunman just walked on up and shot one bullet, hitting her heard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OFFICER: 10-85! 10-85! Shots fired! 183. 183 (INAUDIBLE) 10-85! 10-85!
DISPATCHER: What's your location for shots fired?
OFFICER: Give me a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) bus! Give me a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) bus!
DISPATCHER: What's the location?
OFFICER: 10-85! 10-85! (INAUDIBLE) My partner's shot!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES P. O'NEILL, NEW YORK POLICE COMMISSIONER: Based on what we know right now, it is clear this was an unprovoked attack on police officers who were assigned to keep the people of this great city safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: This is the man who shot her. He was killed. Officers spotted him running away from the scene. Police say when they confronted him, he pulled out his gun. As far as motive, they don't have that just yet. But coming up next hour, we'll talk to someone who was at the scene last night.
[14:15:11] Meantime, in Baltimore, a police officer's daily routine turned into just utter disbelief and shock and then heartbreak. This officer, who is the spokesperson for the Baltimore City Police Department, and whose job it is to be notified about every single homicide in the city, would end up learning of his own brother's murder. The victim was Dionay Smith, a father of three toddlers. Police say he was shot and killed Sunday night inside his own home. He was the 173rd person to be killed in Baltimore this year. Officer Smith believes his brother was targeted. He talked publically just hours ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
T.J. SMITH, CHIEF OF MEDIA RELATIONS, BALTIMORE POLICE: When I saw his name come across, Dionay is his given name, d-i-o-n-a-y, I just knew. You know, you have that gut feeling. But like any other family member, I'm in denial and I called his cell phone immediately and, of course, there was no answer. And I remember - when I called, I was hoping that he'd answer because even what - what I was doing, even just the fear that it was him, I was going to wherever he was to hug him. And I didn't get a chance to do that.
I don't mind being vulnerable. I'm going to be vulnerable because I have to stand before the public and I've done that for a number of years now.
I'm not immune to that. And I never took for granted that I was immune to anything like that. So, you know, I'm going to be vulnerable and share some things with you guys because I think it's important. And the reason I chose to speak, I understand the news nature of this because of the role that I have, and I hope that people can connect and relate and more importantly do everything they can to stop the violence.
We're a great community and we just have to work together to get those who want to harm our community off the streets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Let's talk more about this with Mary Carole McCauley, a reporter with "The Baltimore Sun," who actually spoke with Officer Smith right after he found out about his own brother's death.
So, Mary, thank you so much for being with me.
And on Dionay's death, I mean, the fact that Officer Smith wanted to talk about it, you know, opened himself up to you, his own personal grief, this is about, what, just trying to make sure this stops in your city?
MARY CAROLE MCCAULEY, REPORTER, "THE BALTIMORE SUN": Yes, I told the chief that I thought that he was very brave for having written the FaceBook post and for agreeing to talk to me.
MCCAULEY: And one of the things about him that's always struck me is that, I mean, it's his job to stop the killings, but it's also his - he feels a deep sense of mission around that too. And I think that this is an outgrowth of that.
BALDWIN: So - and he - he alluded to this in the sound we just played. But, I mean, again, it's his job, as a spokesperson, to be notified of any time someone is killed. How exactly did he find out?
MCCAULEY: Well, what he had said was that, I guess he gets - he gets phone calls every time somebody is killed. And there was a phone call, and they would have read the victim's name, Dionay Smith. And he said that he doesn't know of any other people who are named Dionay. And so that was his first inkling. And then he said he did what anybody else in that situation would try to do, which is he tried to call his brother's cell, and it just was never picked up. It was just never answered.
BALDWIN: Again, Officer Smith said his brother was a good guy, worked two jobs to support his family. He posted on Instagram that his brother apparently wanted to run for mayor. "That was a thing about Dionay, he always wanted to be part of the solution." Our condolences to his family and just the Baltimore community.
Mary McCauley with "The Baltimore Sun," thank you so much.
MCCAULEY: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Coming up next here, the story behind this video. Vladimir Putin and the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, on camera, laughing about the U.S. What was so funny?
And we'll tell you what it says about their impression of President Trump ahead of the face-to-face meeting in Germany this week.
[14:24:16] BALDWIN: Two big events taking place overseas today. One, we expected. The other, we didn't. President Trump departed for Europe this morning. He'll attend the G-20 Summit later this week. And he will be meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin for the first time since taking the oath of office.
Meantime, he does have this unexpected foreign policy challenge looming in North Korea. U.S officials confirmed that North Korea has tested its first ICBM, its first intercontinental ballistic missile, with so much range it could reach Alaska. That will certainly be a topic of conversation heading into the G-20, but first the president will be visiting Warsaw, Poland.
So, let's talk more about this with CNN's senior political commentator Rick Santorum, former Republican senator from the great state of Pennsylvania. Also with us, CNN's senior political analyst Ron Brownstein.
[14:25:02] And so, gentlemen, first of all, thank you for coming in.
And, Ron, just to you first. The fact that the president is stopping in Warsaw. I heard someone today sort of likening it to, you know, eating your dessert before your vegetables.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.
BALDWIN: Like, he'll have this warm reception from like-minded leadership first. What do you think the goal is in doing that?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, yes, it's one of the populist nationalist movements in Europe that he has been - that has echoed similar themes as President Trump here and as Brexit in Britain. So, yes, I mean, it kind of gives him a little kind of a steppingstone into what will be a much tougher meeting in the G-20, and tougher not only because of the tensions with nations with which we have kind of a mixed relationship or an adversarial relationship, like China and Russia, but always because we have this kind of extraordinary level of tension with our traditional allies in Europe, and we've got Angela Merkel, who is the host of the meeting, you know, delivering a remarkably explicit speech only a few days ago saying that isolationism and protectionism are not the way to kind of safeguard the world economy and security. And there was no question who she was talking about when she leveled those words.
BALDWIN: It's been no secret sort of how she's felt. But let's hone in, senator, on Vladimir Putin and President Trump. The rapport between these two - because it's really a mystery. We have this video from late May. President Putin was asked about this moment in the Oval Office when the president revealed some secret intel to the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov. Here he was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): (INAUDIBLE) incidentally, I had a talk with him about it today and I'll have to reprimand him, because he hasn't shared those secrets with us. Niether with me nor the Russian special service. And that was very bad of him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I mean, senator, you hear the way he responded to that. You saw Sergey Lavrov laughing back. Do we even know if Putin actually respects President Trump?
RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think he certainly better respect the United States and what the president represents and the abilities that the president brings to the table of the United States of America. So I don't think - I mean he may make jokes about the media coverage and the incident, but I'm quite certain he's not making jokes -
BALDWIN: President Trump slipping unclassified information to the two Russians in the Oval Office.
SANTORUM: Right. Yes, I think that, you know, he's certainly making light of that. But I don't think he's going to make light of the fact that President Trump is stopping in Poland. I think that's a very important gesture, not only to, you know, support the Polish regime and what they're doing within the EU, but also to send a very clear signal to Russia that, you know, eastern Europe is important to the United States and Poland's important to the United States, and making that statement, hopefully he will make statements to that - to that effect when he gets to Poland, how important the NATO alliance is for eastern Europe. So, you know, you can make jokes about things that are going on here in the American media, but I don't think he's going to make jokes about the seriousness of which Donald Trump brings to the equation of supporting eastern Europe and Poland in particular.
BALDWIN: Sure, the level of office being the president of the United States. I mean at least we know, Ron, it's not, you know, an informal pull-aside. This is a full-fledged bilateral meeting. You know, again, hearing from administration sources that the priorities of the meeting, we're told, it's Syria, Ukraine. The Kremlin says there's not enough time on other issues. I mean how optimistic are you that the U.S. will win, you know, any concessions from Russia?
BROWNSTEIN: You know, there are a lot of things that are unique about President Trump. But I think one thing that is actually quite common to other presidents is that I think each president arrives with an outsized expectation about how their personal relationships with other leaders can change the equation on the underlying conflicts and interest between nations. I mean we've already seen that, for example, with Xi Jinping, right, where the president has said he's disappointed that his strong relationship with -
BROWNSTEIN: Personal relationship that he struck up at Mar-a-Lago has not convinced China to be tougher on North Korea. Well guess what, they have lots of intrinsic reasons why they have not been tougher on North Korea over the last 20 years and kind of a, you know, a good handshake or a great chocolate cake can't really change that. And I think that's kind of a sobering kind of reminder as he goes into the meeting with Vladimir Putin that this is a nation with whom we have a series of conflicts, not the least of which is their attempts to interfere with and kind of throw smoke at our democracy.
So, you know, whatever their relationship, the underlying realities of kind of the power conflicts, I think, endure and it's going to be, I think, a challenge for the president to kind of moderate his expectations about how much the personal ties can change those underlying conflicts.
BALDWIN: Well, they're throwing smoke and democracy. I mean, apparently, senator, that is something that isn't necessarily on the table, the influencing of the elections, although it is interesting to note, apparently President Putin may bring up the two compounds in, you know, Long Island and in Maryland has taken away from Russia thanks to President Obama all because of the meddling in elections. So the irony may be that it's Putin who brings up the meddling.
[14:30:07] SANTORUM: Well, look, I don't think it would be a bad thing for President Trump to bring it up.