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Interview With Adam Schiff (D-CA); U.S. Warns China Over Trade with North Korea; What Will Trump Discuss with Russia? Aired 5-6p ET

Aired July 5, 2017 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROWN: At this point police say there is no clear motive.

Well, that's it for "THE LEAD." I'm Pamela Brown, filling in for Jake Tapper, and I turn you over to my colleague, Jim Sciutto, in for Wolf in THE SITUATION ROOM.

[17:00:15] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news. Emergency meeting. The United Nations Security Council holds an emergency session a day after North Korea launches what U.S. intelligence views as a brand-new long-range missile. The U.S. warns it is prepared to defend itself and its allies and warns China about trading with Kim Jong-un.

Diplomatic dance. President Trump gets ready to sit down with Russia's President Putin, but will he confront Putin over Russia's election meddling? Or offer what it wants to reset the relationship?

America first fight. The president lands in Poland to begin a new foreign trip after his "American first" stance angered European leaders on his first visit. How will he handle his crucial summit meetings there?

And ambushed. A New York City police officer, a mother of three, shot in the head as she sits in a marked vehicle. New York's police commissioner calls it an assassination. What's behind the deadly ambush?

Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm Jim Sciutto. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

SCIUTTO: Breaking news, the United Nations Security Council holds an emergency session a day after North Korea's stunning launch of a long- range missile, powerful enough to reach Alaska. Officials say U.S. intelligence will classify the missile as brand-new, and North Korea says it can carry a nuclear warhead.

The U.S. and South Korea have carried out their own missile drill in response. U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley warns that the U.S. is prepared to defend itself and its allies but is calling for an economic response. Just called out China for doing business with, quote, "an outlaw regime." President Trump has counted on China to pressure North Korea but seemed to write that off today between slamming China's trade with the North. Also breaking, President Trump has just landed in Poland for the start

of a crucial round of meetings with world leaders. He'll get a warm reception in Warsaw, but things could turn chilly at the G-20 summit in Germany. U.S. allies have been fuming since the president antagonized them during his first trip there in May.

A crucial meeting will be a formal sit-down with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. Administration sources do not expect President Trump to focus or even mention Russia's election meddling, and even members of his own team worry that he may be unprepared to deal with Putin face-to-face.

I'll talk to the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Alan Schiff of California, and our correspondents and specialists and guests standing by with full coverage of the day's top stories.

And our breaking news first. The United States Security Council holding an emergency session a day after North Korea launched a powerful long-range ballistic missile.

We begin with CNN senior diplomatic correspondent Michelle Kosinski. Michelle, some very tough talk today from the U.N. ambassador.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: She wanted to issue a strong rebuke to North Korea, but beyond that, a strong warning to any country, and especially China, that is still doing business with North Korea.

And the thing is, though, with this problem nothing has worked. It's only gotten worse. So you also run out of ways to say, essentially, the same thing. And today U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley said, now the world is on notice, and the U.S. is willing to take its own path if necessary.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Members of the Security Council...

KOSINSKI (voice-over): An emergency meeting at the United Nations.

NIKKI HALEY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: I must say that today is a dark day. It is a dark day, because yesterday's actions by North Korea made the world a more dangerous place. Their illegal missile launch was not only dangerous but reckless and irresponsible.

KOSINSKI: Kim Jong-un has been undaunted, despite the unprecedented sanctions the U.N. imposed a year ago on the already isolated nation. This latest launch a new technology heralded as a Fourth of July gift to the American bastards. An intercontinental ballistic missile that flew more than 500 miles, one that could be capable of reaching the United States.

HALEY: It showed that North Korea does not want to be part of a peaceful world. They have cast a dark shadow of conflict on all nations that strive for peace. KOSINSKI: And the U.S. issuing a strong warning to other countries,

especially China, that continue to feed the North Korean regime with steady and even increased trade.

HALEY: There are countries that are allowing, even encouraging, trade with North Korea in violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions. Such countries would also like to continue their trade arrangements with the United States. That's not going to happen. Time is short. Action is required. The world is on notice.

[17:05:22] China and Russia, though, have been resistant to putting the clamps on.

VLADIMIR SATRONKOV, RUSSIAN DEPUTY AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS (through translator): We are against any statements of actions which could lead to an escalation or harboring this antagonism. We call for all interested states to react with strength rather than provocation and war-mongering.

KOSINSKI: And it's no secret why.

SATRONKOV: President Trump's challenge is going to be to really get China and Russia to help box in North Korea, but so far there's basically no leverage, because the Chinese want to keep North Korea exactly the way it is.

KOSINSKI: Now China and Russia have agreed to work together on the matter, putting out a statement yesterday that was essentially a rebuke of the U.S.'s methods, calling for the U.S. and South Korea to stop working together on missile defense and end their joint military exercises.

The Pentagon's response, a rebuke of its own. Video showing missile defense exercises in action, which it plans to continue. Today South Korea released yet another defiant visual, simulating an attack on the north. As the President Trump ramps up the rhetoric, it remains unclear how far the U.S. will go to stop North Korea.

HALEY: Their actions are quickly closing off the possibility of a diplomatic solution. The United States is prepared to use the full range of our capabilities to defend ourselves and our allies.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: So on the one hand today, you see Russia and China united in their view, saying dialogue has to come first, either without pre- conditions, which the U.S. has opposed, saying you have to be creative with diplomacy. They oppose ramping up the rhetoric that they think is only exacerbating the situation.

In response, the U.S. says because nothing has worked, it's time to do more, telling the Security Council that if you're going to sit there and not vote for additional sanctions in North Korea, then you are holding hands with Kim Jong-un -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Michelle Kosinski at the State Department, thank you. Also breaking, President Trump has arrived in Poland at the start of a high-stakes foreign trip that will take him to the G-20 summit later in Germany, a very important meeting face-to-face with Russia's president, Vladimir Putin.

CNN senior White House correspondent Jeff Zeleny is in Warsaw with the president. Jeff, certainly a lot on the line for the president and his foreign policy.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Jim, so much on the line for the president, really, across the board from the nuclear threat, of course, in North Korea, that all eyes inside the White House and, in fact, the world are on that meeting on Friday with the president of Russia. Of course, the White House is not yet signaling what the president will say to him.

In fact, flying over here just a short time ago, the White House spokeswoman declined to offer any specifics of that meeting at all. And one reason, Jim? His aides still aren't sure what they'll talk to Putin about.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY (voice-over): President Trump arriving in Poland tonight for a critical overseas trip, the second since taking office. Striking an optimistic tone while leaving the White House today.

He's facing rising tensions in Europe and mounting challenges across the world: the most urgent, North Korea's nuclear program. The test of an intercontinental ballistic missile that could be strong enough to strike the U.S.

TRUMP: Together, we are facing the threat of the reckless and brutal regime in North Korea. The nuclear and ballistic missile programs of that regime require a determined response.

ZELENY: The North Korean nuclear ambitions are at the top of his agenda for a meeting with Chinese president, Xi Jinping, at the G-20 summit later this week in Germany. A friendly relationship only months ago when Mr. Trump hosted his Chinese counterpart at his Mar-a- Lago resort has soured now.

The president blames China for not doing enough to apply economic pressure on the North Korean regime: "Trade between China and North Korea grew almost 40 percent in the first quarter. So much for China working with us, but we had to give it a try."

Six weeks after his first trip abroad, the stakes are even higher this time. Mr. Trump is set to come face-to-face with Russian President Vladimir Putin, the first meeting between the two leaders, as relations between the two adversaries are highly fraught.

Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election at the center of investigations in Washington has placed a cloud over the Trump White House. It's also complicated the U.S.-Russia relationship that Mr. Trump once suggested could be far stronger than President Obama's frayed alliance with Putin.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If Putin likes Donald Trump, guess what, folks? That's called an asset, not a liability. Now, I don't know that I'm going to get along with Vladimir Putin. I hope I do. But there's a good chance I won't.

[07:10:07] ZELENY: At the G-20 summit in Hamburg, Germany, the president is also likely to receive a chilly reception from key allies over his decision to withdraw from the Paris climate agreement and his harsh words on NATO.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, facing a reelection of her own, not sugarcoating her strong disagreements with Mr. Trump's brand of populism. In an interview published today, she telegraphed the confrontation. "Globalization as seen by the American administration more as a process that is not about a win-win situation, but about winners and losers."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: Now back in Warsaw, the White House selected this as the first stop on this trip by design. The president's brand of populism very similar to the Law and Justice Party here in Poland, so different from Germany and other parts of the E.U.

Tomorrow here in Krasinski Square, Jim, there is going to be a major rally for the president. In fact, the Polish government assured the White House that they would have big crowds there. In fact, they're bringing people from all over Poland for that meeting. So tomorrow, a warm welcome here.

But Jim, it seems to cool when he heads to Germany tomorrow evening for that G-20 summit.

SCIUTTO: Jeff Zeleny in Warsaw, thanks very much.

Joining me now, the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff of California.

Congressman Schiff, good to have you on today. I want to begin with perhaps the most important question. This is what U.S. officials believe was a brand-new missile, had enormous range. U.S. intelligence has assessed for that North Korea has made progress in miniaturizing a nuclear device.

Today, in your view, does North Korea have the capability of striking the United Stateswith a nuclear weapon?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (R-CA), RANKING MEMBER, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I don't think they have the capability yet, but I think they will have it in a matter of time. And maybe not that long a period of years. Certainly, I would think during this president's term of office.

So yes, this is going to be, most likely, the national security crisis of the president's term. I think there's a lot more that we can do. It's not going to be Twitter diplomacy that's going to make any progress here. We will have to put much more meaningful pressure on China, and the president seems all too willing to quickly walk away from China and say, "Well, I asked nicely. They didn't do it, so I guess China is a bust."

We have to, I think, signal steps that we're prepared to take that China isn't going to want to see happen, unless China meaningfully cracks down on North Korea. Even then, it may not be enough, but it is the only thing, I think, that may lead to a peaceful outcome.

SCIUTTO: Speaking -- you mentioned Twitter diplomacy. The president tweeted on January 2 of this year, just before his inauguration the following. He said, "North Korea just stated that it is in the final stages of developing a nuclear weapon capable of reaching parts of the U.S. It won't happen," exclamation point.

Based on what we've seen now in the first five, six months of the Trump administration, has the Trump strategy with regards to North Korea failed?

SCHIFF: Well, it certainly hasn't succeeded, but then in fairness, neither did the policies of the Bush or Obama administrations.

One problem, though, I see is that you do have some very dangerous saber-rattling from the president, which I think will only embolden the North Korean regime more.

What I would urge instead is basically a very matter-of-fact way, not a provocative way, telling China, "Look, here are the steps we're going to have to take unless you meaningfully increase our naval presence in the region. We're going to have to really dramatically expand theater missile defense, and we're going to start imposing secondary sanctions like we did on Iran. That is anyone doing business, any financial institutions doing business with North Korea will be sanctioned. Those are predominantly Chinese banks.

All of these are steps China doesn't want to see happen. It's going to be much more effective, I think, than tweeting at the Chinese president. Even then, again, it may not be enough, but it's ought to get China to crack down, not to the point of a North Korean collapse, which they won't support, but rather to more meaningfully constrain North Korea's ballistic missile program and their nuclear program. That, I think, holds the best prospect for us. Some forward progress.

SCIUTTO: Let me turn if I can now to the G-20 summit in Germany this week, including the president's scheduled meeting with Vladimir Putin. We are told -- and this, of course, could change -- that the president does not initially plan to bring up Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election. In your view, is that a mistake?

SCHIFF: I think it's a very serious mistake, and it will be interpreted, quite rightly, by Putin as weakness on the part of the American president. Honestly, Putin is more than aware of what he ordered to be done in interfering with the American elections. And if the president is too weak to confront him on this, either too weak domestically or just personally lacks the character to confront an autocrat who interfered in our elections, then Putin is going to reach the conclusion, "This is a weak president. This is somebody I can walk over. This is a country that I can interfere with again, because this president won't stand up to me."

[17:15:14] And I think similarly, Putin is likely to conclude, if the president doesn't push hard on Ukraine, that Putin has a free hand to continue destabilizing Ukraine.

So I think it's very important that the president go in there with a strong agenda, with a set agenda; not just look for a happy meeting where he can say they had a wonderful meeting; they have a real understanding; they're going to have a much better relationship between our two countries. That will be, I think, a great result for Putin but a real strategic loss for us.

SCIUTTO: Something caught our attention today. According to "The New York Times," two sources close to the president say that they expect him to bond with Vladimir Putin over their shared disdain for so- called "fake news."

In light of what we know -- and your committee's been investigating this -- Russian teams creating fake news, sending it into the states. Actual fake news, targeting particular voting districts during the election. What does that tell you about the president and his mindset as he prepares for this very important face-to-face with the Russian leader?

SCHIFF: Well, it tells me that he's really not living up to his responsibility to put our national security interests first. Because if he were, he would not only be confronting Putin about this, but he would be leveling with the American people and saying, "Look, Russia did this. Putin ordered this happened. Look, I think I won the presidency fair and square, nonetheless, but this is what Russia did. We're not going to tolerate that; we're not going to tolerate any country interfering with us."

Instead, he's basically singing from the Russian playbook. And that is, well, maybe the Russians were involved, but maybe it the Chinese. It's really hard to say.

And also making common cause with Russia by saying any stories that the president doesn't like are all fake news. Well, that undermines us in making the case to our own people, as well as to people around the world that the Russians were propagating completely fake and false stories, pushing them to the top of people's social media feeds, as a way of influencing the outcome in our election.

So it's directly undermining our own democracy. And again, it would be a real failure on the behalf of -- on the part of our commander in chief and a real sign of weakness, as far as Putin is concerned.

SCIUTTO: Just a week ago, Sean Spicer said again the president probably thinks that Russia was behind the election interference.

Congressman Schiff, please stay there. We have more information coming in. We'll be right back after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:21:55] SCIUTTO: Our breaking news: the United Nations Security Council holds an emergency meeting following North Korea's launch of a new long-range missile. That's just one of the tough issues on President Trump's plate as he arrives in Europe for a round of crucial talks with world leaders, including his first meeting with Russia's president, Vladimir Putin.

We're back with Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff of California, ranking member on the Intelligence Committee there.

I want to start back again with Russia. Your committee has been investigating potential collusion between Russian officials and the Trump campaign. "The Wall Street Journal" reported last week that Republican operative Peter W. Smith sought to acquire e-mails stolen from Hillary Clinton by Russian hackers, Smith suggesting to others that he was acting in association with Michael Flynn, who was then part of the Trump campaign. Eventually, of course, became his national security advisor. Though I should say that Smith did deny to "The Journal" that Flynn was involved.

I want to ask you, was your committee aware of this particular information as it relates to the continuing investigation into collusion?

SCHIFF: Jim, I can't comment on the specific allegations that we're familiar with or not familiar with or pursuing, but I can tell you this is exactly the kind of allegation that we need to get to the bottom of, and that is, if there is a suggestion that someone either affiliated with the Trump campaign or just a U.S. person was working in concert in any way, in coordination in any way with foreign parties, the Russians, rather, hackers, to try to influence our election in a way that would violate U.S. laws, that is very much front and center in terms of what we need to determine.

We know the Russians use a variety of techniques to influence foreign elections. We know they use cut-outs and third parties. We know they used, you know, organizations like WikiLeaks, and they had their own persona in Guccifer 2 and DCLeaks. So these are exactly the kind of allegations that we need to get to the bottom of.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, and I know that any time we discuss the investigation, you risk going into classified territory, as much of this information is. It's just that that question of the possibility of collusion, whether it's even a subject of the investigation, is something of a political football, because you'll hear from Trump himself and many supporters, "The question is closed." You hear that from even some Democratic lawmakers, et cetera.

But when I speak to you, I speak to Republicans on the committee, you say, "No, in fact, we're looking -- we're still looking into this."

I suppose I will just ask this question. As you continue to investigate, are you discovering any evidence? Are you discovering any "there" there? Have you learned something new about that collusion question, since you first started doing interviews, collecting documents, et cetera?

SCHIFF: You know, Jim, we're learning new things all the time, and I can't go into particulars, obviously, but to probably give you an understanding of the debate, I think you're seeing played out in public, a part of it is a function of different people having access to different information even within the committees.

But more than that, it's how we look at the evidence. If you look at the issue, for example, of obstruction, many of the same people who say there's no indication of collusion, say there's no indication of any obstruction.

[17:25:01] At the same time, the entire testimony of James Comey could be viewed as evidence of obstruction. Indeed, if we were in court, and I was prosecuting a case of obstruction of justice; and I sought to admit James Comey's testimony as evidence of potential obstruction, there's not a judge in the land who would exclude that. It would all be relevant evidence.

The key question is how much of it can be proved? How much of it can be corroborated? And in that respect, we're still very early in the investigation and far too early, I think, to draw any conclusions.

We are having witnesses come before our committee now on a weekly basis, sometimes more than weekly basis. We're also continuing to pursue other inquiries. For example, before we went into the recess we had requested any tapes from the White House of conversations between the president and Director Comey. They came back with only a partial response. We had asked for tapes or documents or memoranda that reflect those conversations. They came back and would only say that the president isn't aware of tapes. They said nothing about whether tapes existed or whether they had documents, so we have to go back to them now to get those materials. So this is the kind of work we're doing on a daily basis.

SCIUTTO: And you mentioned there that was a -- that was a bipartisan request from you and the acting chairman of the committee, Congressman Conoway.

SCHIFF: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Schiff, thank very much for taking the time.

SCHIFF: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: And coming up, more on the breaking news out of the United Nations today, where Ambassador Nikki Haley had extremely strong words for both North Korea and its ally, China.

Plus a New York City policewoman, the mother of three, dead after what authorities are calling it a cold-blooded ambush, an assassination by a former prison inmate.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN, the most trusted name in news. [17:31:14] SCIUTTO: Following breaking news. During this afternoon's emergency U.N. Security Council meeting in response to North Korea's latest ballistic missile launch, U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley called for new economic sanctions, threatened military action, as well, quote, "if we must," she said. Haley also noted that 90 percent of trade with North Korea is from China and issued a very blunt warning to Beijing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: There are countries that are allowing, even encouraging, trade with North Korea in violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions. Such countries would also like to continue their trade arrangements with the United States. That's not going to happen. Our attitude on trade changes when countries do not take international security threats seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Let's bring in our specialists now. Admiral Kirby, if I could begin with you. North Korea certainly a topic you've dealt with in your role in the State Department. That's a pretty remarkable course change by the Trump administration, the span of a number of weeks, just based on Trump's own public comments. China going to help us out: going to work with China. We're going to solve this together, to threatening, it seemed, China with trade action if they don't crack down more on North Korea.

ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY, CNN DIPLOMATIC AND MILITARY EXPERT: Yes, well, this is the difference between, you know, when the relationship started and where we ended up, and the fact that they're meeting hard realities here. And the hard reality is that China is only willing to do so much to try to curb the programs of Pyongyang.

I actually think it was a muscular statement, I think sufficiently so. The military stuff, let me look. Those are -- there's nothing new there. I mean, in the Obama administration we talked about the need for potential military options. But what is new, and you caught this, was this idea of secondary sanctions: U.S. unilateral secondary sanctions against trading partners, and really that's aimed right at China and only at China.

But they need to be mindful -- I'm sure they are -- that China may not look at this in isolation. They may not compartmentalize this, and the last thing I think we want is a trade war with China or to ratchet up tensions with China on other issues such as the South China Sea.

SCIUTTO: Just to highlight the change in President Trump's rhetoric regarding China, listen -- let's look at his tweets from the last couple of months. Here's the one most recently: "Trade between China and North Korea grew almost 40 percent in the first quarter. So much for China working with us, but we had to give it a try," exclamation point.

Here is President Trump in April: "I have great confidence that China will properly deal with North Korea. If they are unable to do so, the U.S., with its allies, will. USA."

So in effect, April to -- well, early July, Josh Rogin, where we are now. Two, two and a half months. That's enough. He's moving on.

JOSH ROGIN, COLUMNIST, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Right. And listen, it was a good idea to try to find a way to try to convince the Chinese to go along with the policy of increasing pressure on North Korea. We didn't know if it was going to work. It's not going to work. OK? So now we have to move on.

So what we're looking at a system of maximum pressure. We're not there yet. We're at about medium pressure. If we can get to maximum pressure, then we can really find out if the North Koreans will move. If they're not going to move, there's only one option left: that's to go back to the table.

So OK, we went through this process. Maybe the Trump administration learned something about the nature of the Chinese regime. Hopefully, they learned that the Chinese regime doesn't want the same things in North Korea that we want. The goals and the objectives are totally different. Now we can start again from that understanding. And is that going to work? We'll have to wait and see.

SCIUTTO: Rebecca Berg, I mean, to be fair, and Congressman Schiff mentioned just a few moments ago as we were speaking with him, this is really a failure, if you want to call it that, of multiple administrations, Republican and Democrat. To be at a point now where North Korea effectively appears to have an ICBM, may very well have the ability to put a nuclear warhead on the top of that -- on the top of that missile. I mean, this -- politically, this is a failure of both parties.

REBECCA BERG, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That's absolutely right. And I think that reflects a couple of things, Jim. First, that North Korea doesn't respond to incentives and pressures in the same way that other nation states might. Because they have different goals than a normal nation state might, in this case.

[17:35:11] But there's -- I think it's also a reflection of the fact that there are very few good options, and even fewer now than there were for previous presidents, as North Korea has expanded its missiles program; as they have potentially acquired nuclear weapons or have advanced their nuclear technologies. The good options that a president would have dealing with North Korea have diminished. And there weren't very many good options to begin with. All of them are very, very complicated.

SCIUTTO: John Kirby, I wonder if -- if the sort of unspoken reality here is that the world is going to have to live with a nuclear North Korea? Is it not? Because if you're talking about going back to the table or economic sanctions, and if anybody who has any knowledge of the military options is right, saying just the costs, in human terms -- South Korean lives, military lives -- is so great, at the end of the day, is that not where we end up?

KIRBY: I think so, Jim. I mean, I think that's actually a good thing for people to explore. What if we're actually in a point where we just have to diplomatically recognize they're a nuclear state? Get out a fresh sheet of paper and draw sort of a new strategy here to try to contain them, to limit proliferation, to limit their ability to threaten their neighbors. But find a way to deal with them as a declared nuclear state.

And that might actually open up the opportunity for real meaningful negotiations. That might actually help bring them to the table. Because right now there's no incentive to do that.

SCIUTTO: But for what -- bring them to the table for what, if you're granting them...

KIRBY: To try to get them to freeze or stop their program. You're not going to get them to eliminate it. They've already said that. But maybe there's a way to try to get it contained; maybe there's a way to get it more regulated.

Think Pakistan a little bit, not that it's the same, but there's some analogy there. I think that it's worth thinking through, this idea that maybe we need a fresh sheet of paper here.

ROGIN: We might get there. We're not there yet. OK? There's a difference between North Korea and Pakistan. North Korea is pointing nuclear weapons at us, OK? At our troops, at our allies. They're still technically at war with our allies. We've got troops in South Korea.

So we can't just jump to the end, OK? We've got to go through this process. Yes, North Korea is probably never going to give up its nuclear weapons, but we've got to first increase the pressure, see what that does, then go to the table and see what we can get out of the North Koreans. At the end of the day, yes, we'll probably have to accept North Korea as a nuclear state. But not on these terms. Not -- not with what's going on now; that's just crazy.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's still a remarkable prospect. Josh, John, Rebecca, stay with us. We have a lot more to talk about, particularly with Russia. We'll be back right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:42:07] SCIUTTO: Back now with our specialists talking Russia.

John Kirby, there's a lot of reporting now about, one, Donald Trump, at least now, not expected to mention election meddling and has even asked his staffers to come up with carrots that he could offer Russia. No reporting, as of yet, as to whether there are any sticks that he's going to bring to the table. But you've been involved in many high- level meetings like this before. To be a credible, I suppose, going with a strong position, credible negotiator, do you not have to go into that room with both carrots and sticks?

KIRBY: Yes, yes, if you're trying to negotiate something. Sure. If you're trying to get either them to change their behavior or change the calculus of their decision making. I don't think that that's what this meeting should be about. I mean, I applaud them for thinking it through; that's great. But what he should go in with some very clear messages for Putin and try to move the relationship into a better place.

It is an important bilateral relationship. It is in the -- in the tank right now. He should try to find just general ways to try to move it forward without carrots and sticks, without incentives. This is not the time to be trying to do a deal with Vladimir Putin. This is a time to lay down some markers going forward.

SCIUTTO: Josh.

ROGIN: I think the sticks are there. Congress has sanctions; they passed them. They're on Trump's desk.

SCIUTTO: Well, the Senate but not the House.

ROGIN: That's right, but they passed a different sanctions bill in the House. So if Trump wanted to, he could go to Putin and say, "Hey, listen. I've got these guys over here in Washington who want to put more sanctions on you. What are you going to do for me?" That would be the smart play.

Again, it doesn't seem clear that that's what they intend to do. It seems like they just want to make progress. Progress in and of itself is not a bad thing. If they can make some sort of progress on Ukraine or Syria, sure, let's do that. But at the same time, the best chance of America getting the best deal is if you go there with some carrots and some sticks. If they're going to negotiate, they should negotiate tough, because you know Putin's going to negotiate...

KIRBY: But you also have to have a clear sense of what you want out of this. If you're going to take a deal, you've got to know what you want, and I don't know that that's clear yet inside the administration.

SCIUTTO: And publicly, too, because we've asked the administration. They won't give us a clear message as to what the president's objectives are in this meeting.

KIRBY: Right. I think what they're going to come out saying is, "Good meeting. Productive. Discussed a lot of things. Agreed that there's room for improvement. We're going to have our teams, you know, continue to work on it."

ROGIN: At the same time, we know what's going on behind the scenes. They're looking at greater cooperation on the ground in Syria to fight against ISIS and to come up -- go back to the political track for a solution, right? That's a tough thing to do, but that's what they're working on.

In Ukraine, they want to get back to the Minsk agreement. They want to restart the negotiations, make progress. That will lead to the lifting of the sanctions.

So actually, behind the scenes there's a lot going on between the U.S. and Russia. This could be a chance to elevate all of those things to the presidential level. Again, it's tricky. Right? Can President Trump do that while keeping himself from doing a lot of other really crazy things, like giving them Israeli intelligence, or you know, having a chummy hug that everyone is going to talk about for a week and a half? We don't know. Nobody knows. So if you can sort of structure it, there is progress that can be made.

SCIUTTO: Rebecca, politically, how much pressure is there, actually, on Donald Trump to be tough, to stand up to Russia? Because the fact is, as Josh mentioned, you have bipartisan legislation, both House and Senate, pushing for more sanctions. But the president still won't say definitively, "Yes, it's definitely Russia, and we've got to punish them for election meddling," et cetera. I mean, almost regardless of that pressure I imagine the President will do what he wants to do.

REBECCA BERG, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, REALCLEARPOLITICS: He will, exactly. And so you've seen all kinds of pressure from Republican lawmakers, Democratic lawmakers, pleading with the President to at least talk tough about Russia, if not actually be tougher towards Russia. But at the same time, Donald Trump is acting with kind of a different set of incentives than those Republican and Democratic lawmakers who are pleading with him.

I mean, he will think of this in the context of the campaign. During the campaign, he promised that he would refresh and reset relations with Vladimir Putin. He said he wanted to have a warmer, friendlier relationship with Vladimir Putin and Russia, and he won the election. And so from his perspective, why not go there and try to be friendlier to Russia?

SCIUTTO: All right, Rebecca, Josh, John, thanks very much. We have more to come on this hour's breaking news.

The Air Force One touching down in Poland just a short time ago. President Trump on his way to his first Global Economic Summit. Will it turn into the President against the world?

Also, shock and outrage after a New York policewoman is ambushed and killed by a former prison inmate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:50:44] SCIUTTO: Tonight, we are following the expressions of pain and sorrow and shock over the death of a 12-year veteran of the New York police force.

Officer Miosotis Familia was sitting in her marked police vehicle shortly after midnight when she was shot in the head by a former prison inmate who aimed his gun right through her window. He was shot and killed about a block away from the scene by other officers as fellow officers desperately tried to get help.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10-85! 10-85! Shots fired! 183! 183! 183! (INAUDIBLE) 10-85! 10-85! UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- situation. What's your location for shots

fired?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me a (INAUDIBLE) bus! Give me a (INAUDIBLE) bus!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's the location?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10-85! 10-85! (INAUDIBLE) My partner's shot.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Just the shock in the moment as his partner was shot and killed there. Officer Familia was the mother of three, including 12- year-old twins. Statement from Attorney General Jeff Sessions says that she will be rembered for the example of selflessness in protecting innocent people on our streets.

And this hour's breaking news, President Trump arrived in Poland for the start of a crucial trip to Europe. The centerpiece of his visit is the G-20 Summit in Germany.

CNN Business Correspondent Richard Quest joins us. Now, Richard, you know Europe well. What kind of reception can the President expect, specifically in Poland, his first stop on this trip?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: On the political front, a jolly good one. Not only from the right wing Prime Minister, but the even further right wing leader of the ruling justice and law party, where they will see themselves as kindred spirits, fighting against liberal elites.

And they will also be looking for a nice pat on the back from Donald Trump because Poland is one of those few countries that meets the two percent NATO defense expenditure. So, choosing Poland as his first stop was a very clever move.

There will be a rent-a-crowd. There will be a good warm welcome. And he will feel like he is amongst friends who see his view of the world in very much the same way.

SCIUTTO: And Polish leaders have a friendlier view of Russia, we might note as well. When you look at the western part of Europe, though, as you know, allies like Germany, something of a different reception.

QUEST: Well, yes, because, think about it. I made a list while we were just quick talking, thinking about it.

You've got climate change and the abandonment of Paris. You've got the travel ban. You've got Ukraine and the wishing to get rid of sanctions on Russia. You've got the whole question of building a wall between the U.S. and Mexico.

So all of these Trumpian policies are an anathema to, if you like, the traditional western European ethos. And indeed just today, Jim, you had Chancellor Angela Merkel writing in a newspaper article saying, look, the U.S. sees trade as a zero sum game, a profit and loss account. We see it in a globalization format where everybody can win.

So there are very real differences between the way Donald Trump sees the world and the way those like Angela Merkel and, yes, Emmanuel Macron, most definitely will see. Can they find common ground?

The common ground will be over Russia, perhaps. It will certainly be over Syria. The issue, of course, of North Korea is so difficult with so many tentacles that, frankly, all you're going to see there is well meaning statements.

SCIUTTO: Remember that look that Angela Merkel gave Trump when they were appearing side by side --

QUEST: Right.

SCIUTTO: -- here in Washington during her visit as well. A lot of personal animus, it seems it's hard to hide.

QUEST: Yes. And don't forget, you've also got any opportunity that Donald Trump will have a little snide dig at the European Union. He can't negotiate with anybody except the European Union on trade, but you've got anti-E.U. sentiment.

Now, that plays in nicely with Poland, but where does that leave Macron in France? Where does it leave Merkel? This really depends how much Donald Trump wants to kiss and play nice with everybody that he's going to be meeting on the European side of this equation.

[17:55:07] SCIUTTO: And that is an open question. Richard Quest, thanks very much.

Coming up, more breaking news. The United Nations Security Council meets in an emergency session a day after North Korea launches what U.S. intelligence views as a brand-new long-range missile. The U.S. warns it is prepared to defend itself and its allies. It is now warning China about trading with the North.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:59:53] SCIUTTO: Happening now, breaking news. Showdown. United Nations Security Council holds an emergency meeting about North Korea's test launch of an inter-continental ballistic missile. U.S. Ambassador Nikki Haley demands action and warns that the U.S. will use military force if necessary.