Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
U.N. Security Council Meeting On North Korea; Report Links Saudis with Sponsorship of U.K. Islamists; Critical Test of Trump's Leadership on World Stage; Justice March for Political Freedom in Turkey; El-Sayed Could Become First Muslim U.S. Governor; Russian Ambassador Addresses U.N. Security Council. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired July 05, 2017 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:08]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Hala Gorani. We begin with breaking news from the United Nations. You are looking at live
images from the Security Council.
The U.S. has called an emergency meeting to discuss the escalating crisis with North Korea. We will be going live to that discussion in New York
when it starts. Nikki Haley, the U.S. ambassador to the U.N. will be speaking, of course.
It is after all a question that the world has been trying to answer for decades what to do about North Korea. Kim Jong-un's latest launch, what
the U.S. is calling a brand-new missile that has not been seen before has brought that question into sharper focus than ever.
And we are covering the story from around the world. Elise Labott is in Washington. Our David McKenzie is in Seoul, South Korea. Why, Elise
Labott, did the United States call this meeting? It was meant to be behind closed doors. It's now an open session. What are they hoping to achieve?
ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, I mean, I think they're really trying to rally the international community around the
idea that this is a game changer.
This new ICBM, that's intercontinental ballistic missile, that could reach at least the left in the United States is certainly a game changer and that
the world has to do something about it.
It was supposed to be a close meeting I think that the U.S. wanted to put separately China and Russia on notice and hold them accountable for the
world to see on whether they're making any excuses for North Korea.
I think that the U.S. is looking today for some kind of presidential statement condemning the launch, condemning North Korea's continued missile
and nuclear development, but then I think they're going to talk about what can they do over the long term.
And then we are talking about stricter sanctions really trying to put the squeeze on North Korea. There are a lot of sanctions to begin with, but
there could be more and that could include secondary sanctions on countries that continue to do business with North Korea.
GORANI: And it's a strategy that hasn't work so it's a question of whether or not going forward adding onto that, doubling down on the sanctions
strategy would work more effectively.
But David McKenzie, obviously this intercontinental ballistic missile is capable of reaching a small sliver of land in Alaska, but it's South
Koreans that must be really concerned about what's going on in their part of the world. What are you hearing just from ordinary South Koreans about
their concerns?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, Hala, South Koreans, Seoul, in particular, is going about business as per usual.
They are used to that thread on some level from the North having really take a deep enough wall with North Korea since the end of the fighting in
the Korean War.
But you do see a level of urgency now coming from South Korea as you've seen front-page headlines, of course, today saying that the ICBM test by
the North Koreans is pushing, threatening to cross that redline stated by the U.S. and South Korea that there shouldn't be an intercontinental
ballistic missile at the ready that can reach the continental U.S.
It doesn't require a missile to hit Seoul, of course. It just requires artillery and that's always at the ready on the other side of the DMZ --
Hala.
GORANI: And by the way, I want to tell our viewers what they are seeing their, these live images from the U.N. Security Council. This is the
Chinese representative. They are holding the rotating presidency of the U.N. Security Council right now.
Gabbling the diplomats in the start of the session is near there. We'll hear from Nikki Haley. Before we get to that and we'll go live to that in
a moment.
Elise Labott, Donald Trump once again on Twitter making a statement criticizing China over North Korea. He said, "Trade between China and
North Korea grew almost 40 percent in the first order so much for China working with us, but we have to give it a try." What is he trying to
achieve here?
LABOTT: Well, look he's put a lot of hope into his no budding relationship with President Xi and the idea that China would do more. China has its own
calculations whether it's willing to, you know, calibrate the pressure that it puts on North Korea's.
They have taken some steps, but certainly not enough and certainly not enough only for the U.S., but also to curb North Korean behavior. So now
in a very testy phone call with President Xi in the last week President Trump has said, look, we're prepared to go it alone.
Certainly the Chinese don't want him to do that, but the Chinese are also looking for the U.S. to push a more negotiated settlement, and when you
hear what U.S. commanders and even the Defense Secretary Jim Mattis had said, you know, military actions to try and end this North Korean problem,
this North Korean growing program in nuclear and missile development is A, not really possible and B, the consequences would be devastating especially
to South Korea.
So the Chinese are really looking for some negotiated settlement and I think you are going to see U.S. officials talking about that more and more.
[15:05:11]GORANI: And what about, David, South Koreans, do they want a negotiated settlement? Do they want dialogue directly with North Korea?
Do they want the threat of military action hanging over North Korea if it doesn't comply? What do they -- what would they prefer in terms of
strategy here?
MCKENZIE: Well, certainly South Koreans are not uniform in their opinion of North Korea. You got the conservatives who want a more hawkish approach
and those who want to get down and set up a table right away.
The president -- the new president, Moon, certainly is in the more reconciliatory camp within politics in South Korea. He really campaigned
in his election campaigning to push dialogue with North Korea.
Of course, every time a missile is tested by Pyongyang that really leads to a challenge to his outlook and makes it politically difficult for him to
push talks. And of course, at that round table at the Security Council, you have Russia and China.
They recently said what they want to solve the situation is for both the U.S. and South Korea to stop large-scale military drills and for the North
Koreans to stop missile testing as a kind of precursor to any talks.
The problem is that, you know, every time there are a hint of negotiations, Kim Jong-un just goes ahead and tests another missile, you know, around a
dozen just in the last few months have been tested.
GORANI: Right. And there doesn't appear to be any indication that the U.S. and South Korea will scale down these joint military exercises and the
G20 is coming up obviously, Elise, starting in Hamburg. The president is now in Europe. He is starting his tour of European countries in Poland. I
wonder -- is that going to dominate discussions now?
LABOTT: Well, certainly, it's going to be a main focus of the agenda when he meets with President Xi, when he meets with Japanese President -- Prime
Minister Abe. I think that everyone's really looking for this meeting with Vladimir Putin and specifically in the United States whether he is going to
address Russian meddling.
But I think both pres -- Russian meddling in the U.S. election, but I think both President Trump and President Putin want to put that on the back
burner and discuss some of these more pressing international issues and North Korea certainly is among them.
But I do think that North Korea is going to be a very important topic and not just in terms of what they do but in terms of growing nonproliferation.
GORANI: Elise Labott is in Washington, David McKenzie is in Seoul, South Korea. Just a reminder that we are keeping an eye and also an ear out for
what's being said here at the U.N. Security Council.
In just a moment, we will hear from Nikki Haley, who is the U.S. ambassador to the U.N. We'll go to that as soon as she starts speaking. It will give
us some idea there what the U.S. is hoping to achieve at the United Nations.
North Korea as we mentioned there will be one of the big focuses at the G20 Summit in Germany and the world will be watching to see how Donald Trump
handles this crisis.
The U.S. president is heading for Europe right now. He is expected to land next hour in Poland for a brief visit before making his way to Hamburg.
Protesters, by the way, already -- we are few days away, but they're already out on the street demonstrating against globalization and what they
consider capitalist free for some of them.
Others are demonstrating simply against the Trump visit itself. We are live in both Germany and Poland tonight covering all angles of President
Trump second trip overseas.
Our international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson, is in Hamberg and senior international correspondent, Ben Wedeman, joins us from Warsaw.
Let's start with chronologically how this strip will unfold and start with Warsaw and Ben Wedeman. What's this particular stop, this first stop about
for the U.S. president?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think for President Trump this is a stop at a place where he and other American
presidents have always been treated or greeted quite warmly.
We have a government here that came to power in 2015, which is right-wing and populist. So it see someone eye to eye with President Trump on things
like climate change, refugees, and even --
GORANI: Ben, we are going to get back to you in a moment, apologies, Nikki Haley is speaking at the Security Council. Let's listen in. We'll get
back to Ben in a moment.
NIKKI HALEY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: -- a more dangerous place. Their illegal missile launch was not only dangerous but reckless
and irresponsible. It showed that North Korea does not want to be part of a peaceful world.
They had cast a dark shadow conflict on all nations that strive for peace. Yesterday's act came from the same vicious dictator, who sent a young
college student back home to his parents, unresponsive and in a coma.
[15:10:10]For Americans the true nature of the North Korean regime was painfully brought home with the images of two guards holding Otto Warmbier
up as they transported him from a prison he should never have been in.
Otto Warmbier is but one person out of millions who have been killed, tortured or deprived of their human rights by the North Korean regime. To
Americans the death of one innocent person can be as powerful as the death of millions.
Because all men and women are created in God's image depravity toward one is a sure sign of willingness to do much more harm. The nature of the
North Korean regime is clear, only to scale of the damage it does could become different.
That's why yesterday's escalation is so alarming. If North Korea will treat an inner young student the way it treated Otto Warmbier, we should
not be surprise if it acts barbarically on a larger scale.
The United States does not see conflict, in fact, we seek to avoid it. We seek only the peaceful denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula and an end
to the threatening actions by North Korea.
Regrettably we are witnessing just the opposite. Make no mistake North Korea's launch of an ICBM is a clear and sharp military escalation. The
North Korean regime openly states that its missiles are intended to deliver nuclear weapons to strike cities in the United States, South Korea, and
Japan.
And now it has greater capacity to do so. In truth, it is not only the United States and our allies that are threatened. North Korea's
destabilizing escalation is a threat to all nations in the region and beyond.
Their actions are quickly closing off the possibility of a diplomatic solution. The United States is prepared to use the full range of our
capabilities to defend ourselves and our allies.
One of our capabilities lies with our considerable military forces. We will use them if we must, but we prefer not to have to go in that
direction. We have other methods of addressing those who threaten us and of addressing those who supply the threats.
We have great capabilities in the area of trade. President Trump has spoken repeatedly about this. I spoke with him at length about it this
morning. There are countries that are allowing even encouraging trade with North Korea in violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions.
Such countries would also like to continue their trade -- such countries would also like to continue their trade arrangements with the United States
that's not going to happen. Our attitude on trade changes when countries do not take international security threats seriously.
Before the path to a peaceful solution is entirely closed however, there remains more that the international community can and must do
diplomatically and economically.
In the coming days, we will bring before the Security Council a resolution that raises the international response in a way that is proportionate to
North Korea's new escalation.
I will not detail the resolution here today, but the options are all known to us. If we are unified, the international community can cut off the
major sources of hard currency to the North Korean regime.
We can restrict the flow of oil to their military and their weapons program. We can increase air and maritime restrictions. We can hold
senior regime officials accountable.
The international community has spoken frequently against the illegal and dangerous actions of the North Korean regime. For many years there have
been numerous U.N. sanctions against North Korea.
But they have been insufficient to get them to change their destructive course. So in order to have an impact, in order to move North Korea off
its military escalation, we must do more.
We will not look exclusively at North Korea. We will look at any country that chooses to do business with this outlaw regime. We will not have
patience for stalling or talking our way down to a watered-down resolution.
Yesterday's ICBM escalation requires an escalated diplomatic and economic response. Time is short. Action is required. The world is on notice. If
we act together, we can still prevent a catastrophe and we can rid the world of a grave threat.
If we fail to act in a serious way, there will be a different response. Much of the burden of enforcing U.N. sanctions rests with China, 90 percent
of trade with North Korea is from China. We will work with China.
[15:15:09]We will work with any and every country that believes in peace, but we will not repeat the inadequate approaches of the past that have
brought us to this dark day.
We cannot forget the multiple missile tests this year or yesterday's escalation. We cannot forget Otto Warmbier and others North Korea
continues to hold. We cannot forget the threats to our friends and allies around the world. We will not forget and we will not delay. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator: I thank the representative of the United States I now give a thought to the representative of Japan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. President. I'd like to begin by thanking the president for convening this urgent meeting jointly and
requested by the United States, the Republic of Korea, and Japan. We also thank Mr. (inaudible) for the briefing.
Mr. President, North Korea once again launched a ballistic missile in blatant violation of the relevant Security Council resolutions. This is
totally unacceptable. Japan launch a strong protest directly against North Korea immediately after the launch and condemning the act in the strongest
terms.
Here I express once again out strong condemnation of this utterly unacceptable provocation. Japan demands that North Korea immediately sees
all ballistic missile and nuclear development programs and provocations.
Japan will never accept a nuclear armed North Korea. The North Korean official media has announced that they successfully carried out the launch
of an intercontinental ballistic missile.
The missile reached the altitude of more than 2,500 kilometers flew for about 40 minutes and landed within the Japanese economic exclusive zone
approximately 300 kilometers of the Oga Peninsula.
A number of Japanese fishing vessels were out in the sea at the time of the launch. This shows how dangerous and irresponsible this act by North Korea
was. If it hadn't been such a lofted launch, the missile would have flown for more than 5,500 kilometers and could have reached many other member
state soil.
This provocations of North Korea trampled upon international efforts towards the peaceful resolution of nuclear and missile issues and present
enormous global threat.
As North Korea claims that they are capable of hitting any part of the world, their threat has literally become global. This most recent
provocation made it even more evident that circumstances are not right for dialogue with North Korea at this moment.
There is no other choice left for us now than to work together to increase pressure against North Korea. Thorough and faithful implementation of the
relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions is critically important.
Every member state must work together to pressure North Korea into taking concrete action toward the nuclearization. We need to stand -- we need to
send a clear united message that it is North Korea that needs to change not our side.
We must recall the Council's determination to take further significant measures in the event of a further DPRK nuclear test will launch. This
launch requires a swift response from the Council in the form of a resolution with robust sanctions.
Japan looks forward to working closely with councilmembers to defend. I thank you, Mr. President.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thank the representative of Japan. I now give the floor to the representative of France.
GORANI: All right, there you heard from the Japanese, the deputy in fact representative for Japan at the U.N. Security Council. The French
representative is about to speak.
But we heard from Nikki Haley, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. They jointly called for this emergency session at the U.N. to address the
North Korea crisis.
Essentially Nikki Haley is saying, look, we have a range of possible sanctions at our disposal that haven't been utilize. We are going to go --
we are going to explore what those are.
They were going to introduce a resolution. I won't go into details she said, but we can address the way in which North Korea accesses its hard
currencies. We can impose more sanctions.
[15:20:00]We can impose more restrictions on air and maritime movements for North Korea, and also a message in that country that trade with North
Korea, the biggest of which is obviously China, saying, you know, if countries who trade with North Korea continue to do so, if North Korea
continues to escalate its nuclear program and its ballistic missile program.
Then those countries could suffer consequences, trade consequences from the United States. Let's get some perspective now from CNN global affairs
analyst, David Rohde. He is the online news director for the "New Yorker."
So you heard Nikki Haley there essentially saying look, we will impose more sanctions on North Korea, but we will also go after countries that do
business with North Korea.
DAVID ROHDE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes. There was clearly tough talk there. I thought the most interesting when she talked about the
countries failed to cooperate with the U.S. regarding North Korea that would impact the U.S. trade negotiations with those countries.
Clearly that I think, you know, directed at China more than anyone else. We've heard that rhetoric before, but this is a new chapter. This is
unprecedented that North Korea has intercontinental ballistic missile. So you know that's very tough talk. It will be interesting to see how other
countries respond.
GORANI: But also she said the U.S. is prepared to use the full range of capabilities. We will use the military essentially if we must, though, we
prefer not to use it again this is the kind of talk we've heard before.
But I guess, my question, David, is sanctions haven't worked. Tough talk has not worked. Is it time for a new strategy altogether?
ROHDE: It is and to be fair the Trump administration, you know, this -- though the world has failed when it comes to North Korea. You know, that
North Korea has at least 10 nuclear weapons.
They now have an intercontinental ballistic missile so the past approach has failed and the frustration expressed by administration is justified.
The question is, are they developing a new strategy. Their approach since they've been in office was first and abrasive Chinese President Xi.
The talk of the strong leadership they develop that clearly has not worked out and now they are trying saber rattling that's not working in terms of
intimidating Kim Jong-un or the North Korean regime.
So I don't see a strategy here yet. They are right something needs to change, but it's their duty to propose a clear new strategy to --
GORANI: As you mentioned this is a continuation really of the Obama policy regarding North Korea. Maybe not as much strategic patience, but certainly
the sanctions that's something that the Obama administration tried as well as other tactics that haven't work. But when you say a new strategy is
needed, I wonder what do North Korea experts say is more likely to work?
ROHDE: I think more cooperation from China. I don't think there's a military option at this point. It's too far along. Any unilateral U.S.
strike would, you know, enrage I think the government in South Korea.
President Moon there favors more dialogue with North Korea. So I don't think a military strike changes dynamic. It somehow getting more economic
pressure on this regime, but I agree it's not just following the Obama administration.
You know George W. Bush filed this. This has been many, many (inaudible) and coming and it's a very serious situation, I believe.
GORANI: Certainly. David Rohde, thanks very much, our global affairs analyst. Thanks for joining us. We'll see how Donald Trump addresses this
with the Chinese president and other G20 leaders. Thank you for joining us.
We are hearing from the representative, the French representative at the U.N. there, discussing the North Korea crisis at this emergency session
called by the U.S. jointly by the U.S., Japan, and South Korea.
But there's a lot more to come tonight, a report into the funding of U.K. Islamic extremism said Saudi Arabia is at the forefront of the problem.
Also this --
(VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: More political violence breaks out on Venezuela's Independence Day, dramatic images coming to us from Caracas. We are live in the
Venezuelan capital.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, the Venezuelan National Assembly became a bloody battleground today. Lawmakers were marking the country's Independence Day
and this happened.
(VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Dozens of pro-government activists stormed on to the ground and attacked opposition politicians. A report say at least 12 people are hurt
and journalist reporting from inside say they were also targeted.
It is the latest outbreak of violence in a country struggling with the deepening economic and political crisis. Dozens of people have been
killed. Take a look at some of these images.
This is a country that is going through a major, major crisis. You can see it there illustrated in a stark way and these images coming to us from
Caracas.
Well, Journalist Jorge Valerie (ph), is on the line from Caracas with more. What happened? So these are pro-Maduro demonstrators who stormed
parliament essentially attacking opposition politicians. Is that what happened?
JORGE VALERIE, JOURNALIST (via telephone): Hi, Hala. How are you? Well, this is not presented such (inaudible) appears in the Venezuelan parliament
after the opposition took control of it in January 2016.
But of course, it marks (inaudible) in this situation of the country is (inaudible). What happened was that it was taking place the celebrations
for the Venezuelan 206 years of independence from Spain when suddenly some pro-government groups erupted inside the building and started (inaudible)
between lawmakers and journalist (inaudible) aghast and these government supporters.
At least two lawmakers reported injured. Other lawmakers and other legislators, talking about six or five legislators that could probably
resulted injured in this dramatic moment.
GORANI: And journalists were also attacked. We are hearing from reports.
VALERIE: Yes. We have reports some colleagues resulted either injured or robbed, their equipment were stolen on the situation. The president,
Nicholas Maduro, talk about it. He condemned the situation. He said that, he wants to keep (inaudible) country.
But somehow he suggested that the opposition, the political opposition could be involved in what happened there. He said that it was a strange
situation and he said that strange thing happens when the opposition is present.
So this is definitely marking another day as I was saying that chaos in this country that in the past three months has been dealing with
antigovernment protests not only Caracas also in the countryside. At least 91 people, Hala, have died in the recent months.
GORANI: Jorge Valerie, thanks very much as we watch these images coming to us from the National Assembly of lawmakers with blood splattered on their
shirts wiping blood off their brow, just unbelievable images from the Venezuelan capital as the country thinks deeper and deeper into chaos.
Thanks very much.
Still to come, we are keeping a close eye on that U.N. Security Council meeting about North Korea. We are -- as you can see there, the U.K.
representative is speaking. We'll be right back with more. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:32:07] GORANI: Well, to say the Gulf countries did not like Qatar's response to their demands would be an understatement.
The Foreign Ministers of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Bahrain, and the UAE say it was very negative and, quote, indicates a lack of awareness of how
dangerous the situation is, unquote. And yet, Qatar is standing firm. Its Foreign Minister spoke to CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHEIKH MOHAMMED BIN ABDULRAHMAN AL THANI, MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF QATAR: There are accusations that Qatar is supporting terrorism. They are
shutting free speech, shutting the media outlets, expelling people, oppositions, violating the international law by withdrawing citizenship
from some of the peoples and return them back home. So there are a lot of demands which are against the international law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, the basis for the boycott of Qatar is the accusation -- that is the public reason they've put forward -- by the Saudis and its partners
that Qatar supports terrorism.
Here is what's ironic. A foreign affairs think tank released a report today about foreign funding of Islamist extremism here in the U.K. It
alleges the country foremost responsible for the funding of the extremist ideology in the U.K. is Saudi Arabia.
And according to the report, the Saudis have spent millions of dollars on the sponsorship, over nearly six decades, of some of that Wahhabi ideology.
In the funding of mosques, of preachers, and of textbooks, among other things.
Tom Wilson is the author of that report. He's a research fellow at The Henry Jackson Society, and he joins me now. Thanks for being with us.
TOM WILSON, FELLOW AT THE CENTRE FOR THE RESPONSE TO RADICALISATION AND TERRORISM, THE HENRY JACKSON SOCIETY: Thank you for having me.
GORANI: We've heard this before, this accusation that Saudi Arabia is behind the spreading of Wahhabi ideology, not just in the U.K. but in other
countries. What evidence do you have that they've done this in the U.K.?
WILSON: There's little doubt that the Saudi royal family has been funding mosques and educational institutions here in the U.K. but also, in turn,
post Saudi preachers and distribute Saudi literature that is, by any stretch of the imagination, extremist. Saudi textbooks, for instance,
instruct on the cutting of hands.
We also know that they have live link ups to Saudi preachers based in Saudi Arabia who preach what is essentially hate speech. So I don't think
there's any doubt that this has been going on. And it's something that's being talked about for well over a decade now in the U.K.
GORANI: But the U.K. commissioned a report. It was drafted in 2015, I believe -- not released though -- about the Saudi influence --
WILSON: That's right.
GORANI: -- and Saudi funding of some of these.
WILSON: Yes, because there had been pressure put on the government to start addressing this issue since it's been about a decade now it is being
talked about and no policy solutions. So the government had the Home office look into this.
We understand that the report has now been delivered to Downing Street, but they say the content is very sensitive. And so at the moment, it looks as
though they're not going to cave to pressure to make those findings public.
GORANI: The Saudi Embassy here in London had this response to your report.
[15:35:02] The claim that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia finances Islamic extremism in the U.K. is categorically false. Accusations that blame the
kingdom for radicalizing a small number of individuals are baseless and lack credible evidence.
What's your response to that?
WILSON: All one can assume is that they don't mean the same thing by extremism that everyone else here in the U.K. is. And the government has
been very clear about what it understands by extremism in terms of the kind of intolerance that is preached by these preachers: intolerance for
homosexuals, for atheists, for people who are seen as having blasphemed Islam, views on the equality of women, on wife beating --
GORANI: But how is the funding, according to your research, conducted? I mean, how does the money --
WILSON: The funding --
GORANI: -- travel?
WILSON: -- takes place in terms of endowments from the royal family to mosques. I would say that one of the most effective ways they've been able
to fund this is actually by providing scholarships and stipends for British Muslims to travel, for instance, to University of Madinah where they are
trained in Wahhabi ideology, only to return to the U.K. to preach that to other Muslims.
GORANI: But would Saudi Arabia do that now? Just weeks ago, in Mecca, they themselves were targeted by radical Islamist terrorists. There was
even a suicide bomber that blew himself up when he was confronted by security forces. So Saudi, too, is the victim of some of these.
WILSON: That's right, but they are the victim of a different type of Islamist extremism that associates more with the Muslim Brotherhood. And
that's one of the reasons they have such a problem with Qatar, because Qatar sponsors this alternative type of Islamic extremism that attempts to
bring down the Saudi monarchy, for instance.
But they're quite happy to fund the ideology of an ultraconservative and illiberal version of Islam worldwide. And that's what we're finding is
happening in the U.K., and it's completely unacceptable to liberal values.
GORANI: Do you think the U.K. government is not responding to what you say is a real threat, as a real issue with radicalization?
WILSON: I think that compared to other countries in Europe where their government has spoken out more strongly about this issue, the U.K.
government hasn't publicly been addressing this. I imagine that behind the scenes, they have been having these conversations.
GORANI: Why do you think? I mean, let's be blunt. Is it because there's a business relationship between some of these countries, including the U.K.
and Saudi?
WILSON: I think that there clearly is strong diplomatic relationships, not just with Saudi Arabia, but with many of the countries in the region, and I
think the U.K. are being very careful about. They have said in their counter extremism strategy that they will commit to disrupting foreign
funded extremism, but the details on how they would do that specifically are yet to emerge.
GORANI: Quick last one, will things change with the new generation of leadership in Saudi?
WILSON: If they are committed --
GORANI: Because there's an attempt to liberalize.
WILSON: Yes.
GORANI: There's an attempt to open up.
WILSON: Nevertheless, they -- well, they are in a difficult situation with their own religious authorities who essentially propped them up. If they
stop doing this funding and annoy them, they could undermine their own position internally within the kingdom.
GORANI: Tom Wilson, thanks very much, of The Henry Jackson Society, with the report that made big headlines today around the world.
WILSON: Thank you.
GORANI: Thank you so much for joining us. The coming hours and days will be a critical test of Donald Trump's leadership on the world stage. He's
due to land in Poland soon for a brief visit, in about half an hour, before heading for the G-20 Summit in Germany.
As always at these formal policy meetings, some of the most important business takes place on the sidelines. Nic Robertson looks at the tough
challenges that lie ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Of the world's 20 most powerful leaders gathering in Hamburg, these two will steal
the spotlight.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If Putin likes Donald Trump, I consider that an asset, not a liability.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION (through translator): He is a brilliant and talented person, without a doubt.
TRUMP: Now, I don't know Putin --
ROBERTSON (voice-over): And now in Germany at the G-20, they will, under intense speculation about Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential
election.
TRUMP: I would love to be able to get along with Russia.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Trump has said so much about Putin in the past four years, 80 comments and counting, their coming together could offer a
filtering of fact from fiction. And now, the pull-aside meeting has been upgraded to a fully-fledged bi-lat. But that doesn't mean President Trump
will actually bring up the election hacking.
Indeed, don't count on any of the 20 leaders here agreeing on anything significant. They've rarely been less united.
Trump's last global outing at the G-7 a month ago saw him dissing his partners, flatly refusing to join them endorsing the Paris climate change
agreement, a topic on the G-20 agenda. He has become not just disengaged but estranged on the world stage.
Putin who has become a pariah at these events since he invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea can expect more cold shoulders. All this as the host,
Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, goes to the polls later this year. She needs a successful summit.
[15:40:00] And she won't be the only one worried for Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan who left the last G-20 the leader of a democracy and
returns an autocrat. And then the Saudis arriving with excess diplomatic baggage. A Gulf standoff with Qatar is unlikely to draw positively at the
G-20.
The cast of characters is long and so is their list of problems. The British P.M. weakened, needing new friends. Perhaps the ray on the horizon
--
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE: Thank you very much.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): The new French President, Macron, who bounced into his first global outing in May, signaling to Trump he is not first among
equals. A message he'll likely hear in his bi-lat with Putin too.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Hamburg, Germany.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Not all protestors in Hamburg are targeting capitalism and globalism. Somewhat to encourage world leaders and, actually, all of us to
be, well, more human, they dressed up as zombies shuffling silently through the streets to represent political apathy and a deadening of the spirit.
But the performance art had a happy ending. The protestors eventually shook of the dreadful gray and celebrated a joyous awakening. One of the
organizers says they wanted to encourage people to come out of their shells and become more politically engaged.
Coming up on the program. A long, loud trek in Turkey. Why thousands of people are marching and making plenty of noise along the way. That is
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: In Turkey these days, frustration is a powerful motivator and it can take you quite a long way. For thousands of protestors, frustration
takes them in blistered feet, through record-high temperatures, the 450 kilometers from Ankara to Istanbul.
They're calling it a justice march. They come from all political affiliations and religions with a common goal, to protest Recep Tayyip
Erdogan's expanding powers, they say, and to fight for their freedoms. The march is expected to end with a rally, Sunday, if the government allows
them to hold one.
CNN Producer Gul Tuysuz was with the protestors earlier, and she joins me now from Istanbul. So what are they saying they hope to achieve, and do
they think they'll be able to have their demonstration, Sunday?
GUL TUYSUZ, CNN PRODUCER: Well, there is one clear message that the participants in this march are giving. It is that they are demanding
justice. And they're saying that they want justice for all. They want it for the jailed academics, for the academics and journalists who have been
fired from their jobs, for the thousands of people who have been purged in the aftermath of the coup.
[15:44:59] And they are using this march, this 450 kilometers from the Turkish capital city of Ankara all the way to Istanbul. They have about 50
kilometers left, and when we joined them, the sun was blistering. And we asked some of the participants what it was that drove them to brave the
heat and the blistered feet to join in the march. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't believe that there is justice in this country. And actually, I don't believe anything is correct in Istanbul
right now, so I walked.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We lost all, everything, related to justice in this country. And we all believe that this huge demonstration will contribute
to have some level of justice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for free democracy, speech, for academicians, for journalists, for everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The normal channels of politics in Turkey has been clogged terribly. So the only way of opening up this clog channel is
actually to take it to the streets and walk and demand and chant and actually show that we are part of democracy. And if we're not there, then
nothing will change in Turkey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUYSUZ: And while the demonstrators, the marchers are very colorful and their spirits are very high, there is very heavy security presence around
them. There are tons of police, and the security is quite justified and very needed.
Just as the march was taking place today, a government official came out and said that six suspected ISIS members had actually been arrested while
they were planning an attack on the Justice March -- Hala.
GORANI: And I asked you about that Sunday demonstration because there have been issues, obviously, with these anti-government gatherings. I mean, do
they think they're going to be allowed to gather to protest the President?
TUYSUZ: Well, they're going ahead right now, planning to definitely hold the rally in Istanbul. We actually asked some of the participants what
they would do if the government tried to ban it or prevent them from holding the rally, and they said that they would fight. That they would
try to stand up for their right.
One of the last rights that they feel they have remaining, to stand up to their government and voice their opinions and to hold this big rally. But,
of course, we don't know, with the heightened security and the expanded government powers, whether or not the government will actually allow this
rally on Sunday to take place -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Gul Tuysuz, thanks very much, in Istanbul with the latest there on that march that has been going on for several days.
Coming up, we take a look at one of America's purple states, Michigan. And we'll speak to Abdul El-Sayed, how he hopes to make history by becoming the
state's next governor. More details coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: The American state of Michigan is a state divided. It's a purple state, as it's known in American politics. Split down the middle between
Republicans and Democrats, and its election for governor next year could be an important test of how Donald Trump is faring.
Now, Trump campaigned in Michigan before last year's presidential vote. His rival, Hillary Clinton, did not. She might be bitterly regretting that
decision because the effort paid off for Trump. He carried the state by the slimmest of margins.
[15:50:07] But now, Michigan's Republican governor is not running again. He can't. He's reached his term limits.
And one of the candidates to replace him happens to be Democrat Abdul El- Sayed. He's an Egyptian-American who is the former head of Detroit's Health Department. If he wins, he'd become the first Muslim governor of
any American state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDUL EL-SAYED, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN: We, together, we must act. We cannot wait until our children are poisoned. We
cannot wait until their dreams are crushed because we have shut down their schools. We cannot wait until nearly a million Michiganders lose their
health care.
We cannot wait until robots continue to take our jobs. We cannot wait until our young people go elsewhere looking for the kinds of economic
opportunities we should have built them right here at home. We cannot wait until some Americans are told that they are less American than the rest of
us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So that was the campaign video for Abdul El-Sayed, and he joins me now live from Detroit. Thanks, sir, for being with us.
First of all, it's such a polarized political landscape in America right now. Why choose to get into politics of all times now?
EL-SAYED: Look, I think this is the moment where we have to redefine our politics around a culture of hope and inspiration and togetherness, rather
than the bitter culture of fear that, I think, a lot of folks have been pushing to divide us rather than unite us. And I think in this moment, if
we're going to be able to address some of the challenges that we face in our state, whether it's folks that are locked out of our economy, failing
public schools, a failure to protect our air and water, or failure to protect health care, that we have to do it together.
GORANI: Obviously, you know that people will -- when they think of you, when they mention you, they'll always mention your religion. They'll say,
could be the first Muslim U.S. governor. Is that something that bothers you, this association with your faith as kind of one of the first things
people bring up?
EL-SAYED: Look, I think it's easy to focus on the faith just because it's new and different. I'm Muslim. I don't run away from that. But I really
hope that we can get to a moment in this conversation and where people are talking about, could be a really great governor for the state of Michigan.
GORANI: Right.
EL-SAYED: And I think our job is to be able to talk about those issues anywhere and everywhere with everyone, going to every single county -- all
83 in Michigan -- to have the conversations that we have to have. And I think right now, you know, the oddity of my run is that I'm Muslim.
But I think, as we're able to leverage that difference to be able to make a memorable reaction in people's minds because we were the ones who are
talking about the issues that they face, that they talk about around their dinner table, then I think we're going to be able to move that conversation
forward to one that's really focused on, this is the guy with solutions to the problems that we face.
GORANI: So you gave the student commencement speech at University of Michigan. You have an incredible academic, by the way, background.
Oxford, Columbia, Georgetown -- I mean, I've lost tract. Rhodes Scholar, Marshall Scholar -- we just stopped reading after a while.
And when you were giving the commencement speech at University of Michigan as a student, I understand Bill Clinton was giving the commencement speech
to the graduating class. Did he tell you, you should not be a doctor, you should go into politics? I read that somewhere.
EL-SAYED: You know, the irony of the moment -- first of all, it was a great honor to be able to serve my class as the student speaker and to get
to meet President Clinton at the time. You know, the irony of it was I'm a doctor by training. And almost nobody ever tell somebody who's graduating
undergrad that they shouldn't be a doctor.
GORANI: Yes.
EL-SAYED: That's exactly the advice that Bill Clinton gave me. And he said, look, you know, you've got a natural talent for this. I really hope
you'll consider a career in politics. And, you know, to my mind at that moment, you know, that was 2007, six years after the horrible atrocities in
9/11, and I thought that that kind of career was just off limits for me. And I realize now that, in this moment, all of us have to stand up and do
what's possible for our politics and our country.
I know exactly what this country gave to me. I know how lucky I am that I've had the opportunities that I have. And I owe it to the next
generation to make sure that we're fighting to maintain this America as a place where any and every one can succeed. And so, you know, I guess I'm
heeding the advice that I got from President Clinton that day.
GORANI: But it took a while to get there because you had many other roles between then and now. What kind of reaction have you gotten?
I mean, obviously, you're on Twitter. You're on social media. You communicate with people directly as you start this effort, as you sort of
get this campaign moving forward. What have people told you about your candidacy?
EL-SAYED: You know, for the folks that we have been able to talk to, people who are actually voting in this primary, this election, people are
uniformly positive. I've had people who voted for Donald Trump come up to me and say, I am so thankful that you're running because you have a real
skill set.
[15:55:01] And what's been great about this moment is that I know exactly why I'm running, and my responsibility is to share that with folks. And
once they get past the fact that I'm a little bit younger, I'm a little bit more brown, I'm a little bit more Muslim than most candidates in a
gubernatorial election, they realize that we're talking about issues that matter, issues that they face day to day in their communities, around their
dinner tables, that are giving them stress.
GORANI: So you've had -- Abdul El-Sayed, you've had Trump voters say to you, I'm really glad you're running.
EL-SAYED: Absolutely.
GORANI: Is that something that surprised you?
EL-SAYED: You know, I have to say a little bit. But let's be honest about what the Trump vote was. This was a vote of cynicism and frustration with
--
GORANI: Yes.
EL-SAYED: -- the political climate as it exists.
GORANI: Exactly.
EL-SAYED: And to have somebody who is a bit younger with a real skill set who is talking about things that we can do together, that's new to our
political scene. Beyond the fact that I'm Muslim. And to be able to bring that to the conversation, I think, is inspiring for folks across both
aisles.
GORANI: Abdul El-Sayed, thanks very much. The Democratic nominee hopeful in the gubernatorial race in Michigan, which is many months away, but still
very interesting to talk about how it's all shaping out. Thanks for joining us.
EL-SAYED: My pleasure.
GORANI: We're going to go back to the U.N. Security Council. The Russian representative is addressing the Council about the North Korea crisis.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VLADIMIR SAFRONKOV, RUSSIA DEPUTY AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS (through translator): -- are in line with the tactical criteria of mid-range
ballistic missiles.
We are carefully following the development of the situation on the Korean Peninsula. We'd like to call your attention to the joint Russia and
Chinese statement about this issue made in Moscow on 4 July. This was immediately following the rocket or missile launch.
We find this action from the DPRK to be inadmissible and to be running counter to relevant Security Council resolutions. Russia and China have
urged the DPRK to firmly comply with the provisions of said resolutions.
We share the concern regarding the evolving situation in the Korean Peninsula and escalation of military and political tensions on the
Peninsula, fraught with the risk of an armed conflict. They mean that the international community must take collective measures for peaceful
settlement of the solution through dialogue and consultation.
We are against any statements or action which could lead to an escalation and hardening of antagonisms. We call for interested states to act with
restraint rather than provocation and war mongering, demonstrate a readiness to engage in dialogue without preconditions, as well as make
active efforts to deescalate tensions.
The Russian Federation and China put forth a joint initiative. It is based on the Chinese proposal of a dual suspension and parallel progress for the
denuclearization of DPRK as well as establishing a peace mechanism on the Peninsula. Also, the Russian-phased plan for settlement to the conflict.
We call upon the DPRK, as a voluntary political decision, to declare a moratorium on the testing of nuclear explosive devices and the testing of
ballistic missiles. Though the U.S. and the Korean Republic, at the same time, should refrain from conducting full-scale joint training exercises.
In parallel, there could be talks held where general principles for relations would be affirmed, including the non-use of force, not using
aggression, ensuring peaceful coexistence, as well as efforts for the denuclearization of the DPRK for a comprehensive settlement to all issues,
and this includes the nuclear one.
All interested parties in the negotiations process, in their chosen format, could deal with creating in the DPRK and Northeast Asia peace and security
mechanisms. This would be to the normalization of relations between relevant states.
We call upon all states to support said initiative, which offers a true window of opportunity for resolving the issue in the Korean Peninsula. We
reaffirm our strong commitment to the international regime of the nonproliferation of nuclear weapons and intention to see the
denuclearization of the DPRK, as well as comprehensive and full implementation of relevant resolutions of the Security Council.
[15:59:50] We express our intention with other interested states to continue efforts to ensure that, through dialogue and consultations, there
is a balanced addressing of all existing concerns. We call upon all sides to strictly comply with obligations set forth in the joint statement from
19 September, 2005.
END
