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Protests Turn Violent at G20 Summit; Germany Warns of U.S. Trade War; EU and Japan Agree Huge Free Trade Deal. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired July 6, 2017 - 16:00   ET


[16:00:00] PAULA NEWTON, CNN HOST: Not much to applaud today I'm afraid. The stock market suffered triple-digit falls after worry about the economy

and valuations. It's Thursday, July the 6th. Tonight, protests continue outside the G20 as night falls in Hamburg. We're live on the ground with

police moving in. Germany warns about a trade war with the United States. We'll speak with a board member at BMW and trade deals are back. That's

what the EU and Japan want to you believe. I'm Paula Newton in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Tonight, clashes on the eve of Donald Trump's first G20. Shortly after the U.S. President arrived in Hamburg, Germany, police were forced to fire

water cannons at protesters as they tried to organize a march on the summit. Now members of the Anti-Capitalist Welcome to Hell demonstration

were behind the violence. They threw smoke bombs and glass bottles at security. About two miles from where the world's most powerful leaders are

getting set to meet.

Atika Shubert is on the ground in Hamburg in the middle of it all. And Atika, you know, we were watching the live pictures, things were incredibly

chaotic and I know that the police came back with water and teargas. But one wonders exactly why they weren't better prepared for this.

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think the problem was both sides had been gearing up for some time for this. It was almost

an inevitable clash waiting to happen. What's happened now is actually -- as you can see behind me -- the protests disbursed where it was and

hundreds of people have moved over here to Reeperbahn, the red-light district of Hamburg. And have taken over this intersection here and

they've installed the sound system and made it this big rave what they're calling a festival of democracy here.

But it's still a concern for police. Even though it doesn't seem violent at this point. They've brought in a lot of riot police a little further

down and there's also two water cannons here. So, I think police are now struggling to figure out how to deal with a protest as it morphs and starts

to spread out across the city, making sure they're not spread out to thin. It's going to be a challenge. Because today was 12,000 protesters, but on

Saturday, they're expecting 100,000. So, this is going to go on for days - - Paula.

NEWTON: Yes, and these are the kinds of issues that really, all of these summits, having said that Atika, that's usually what they try to do is

contain them in a certain area. It seems that that hasn't really worked out this evening in Hamburg. And what is the danger here? Because I've

also been reading that at times there have been clashes between the protesters themselves.

SHUBERT: Yes, because what's happened is there's a segment of the protesters, what they call the black bloc, which is trying to use violent

tactics. And a lot of the protesters inside say hey, we don't want to get violent. Let's not make it about violence and attacking the police. So,

you have seen some clashes there.

I can actually see some of the riot police moving in. If you careful and watch you can see them moving in just there. What they're trying to do, I

think, is basically get a grip on the situation here as the crowds swell, as more people come. They've brought in more riot police to sort of

surround them and what they sometimes term as cuddling the area. But they haven't moved in. I don't get any sense of the tension at the moment. I

think this is just precautionary. They're moving police into position just in case it gets out of hand.

NEWTON: Yes, they don't want an escalation, that's the problem. Our Atika Shubert there keeping an eye on those protests as they continue in Hamburg.

Appreciate it. Now Klaus Brinkbaumer, is the editor-in-chief of "Der Spiegel." He joins us via Skype and he's also in Hamburg. Give us a sense

of milieu there right now, because we do have several protest groups. Some of them saying different things, but all of them wanting to be heard loud

and clear.

KLAUS BRINKBAUMER, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "DER SPIEGEL": Hi, Paula. Yes, it's I think it's what was expected right now. You have groups from, from all

over Europe coming to Hamburg. And you have the people in Hamburg and these parts of the city where all these things are happening right now.

You have the left-wing people who live there and they have been preparing for a while now. And like we just heard, there's a center, which is called

the black bloc and they are the aggressive ones. So, it's too early to tell whether this G20 summit will actually turn into something really

violent or if it's just what everybody expected.

Right now, yes, we do see burning cars here and there. There are some injuries, minor injuries, I would say. But it didn't look good. It looked

aggressive. It seemed aggressive. Our reporters who are on the streets as well tell us well the atmosphere is heating up.

[16:05:00] What the police didn't want to happen is, they didn't want the protesters wearing masks, being wrapped up and that's what some of these

people, about 1,000 did. They wrapped up their faces. So, the police stopped this protest. And that's when it started.

NEWTON: Yes, and that's when they were using the water cannons and the teargas. It's a debate as to whether or not this really had any influence

at all on the leaders gathering right now. Some people are blaming Angela Merkel, saying she should have known better than to have it in Hamburg.

There should have had it in some place more isolated. I mean, what you think? As you said this is something that's predicted and something that

we've seen it for many years at these summits.

BRINKBAUMER: Well, yes. It did happen in Genoa. It did happen at other places. And yes, I live in Hamburg, "Der Spiegel" is based in Hamburg like

you said. So, we feared something violent might happen. And what happened today I think was what had to be expected. It hasn't been that bad, yet.

But on Saturday there will be a lot more people coming to Hamburg.

You have people like Justin Trudeau, speaking to the audience at a concert right now. The G20 leaders are trying to influence the protesters. He was

there at the concert an hour ago and then speaking to the people. So, the leaders try to tell the audience well, yes, we are listening, even though

we are talking to Donald Trump. And among each other. So, it's too early to tell how this will end and it's too early to tell whether Hamburg will

suffer from it or what the results will be.

NEWTON: As you're speaking, Klaus, we're looking at pictures again of some the efforts of the riot police trying to get things under control and

things being disbursed there all over the city. I just want to get -- go ahead.

BRINKBAUMER: Sorry, they are using pepper spray and water cannons and teargas. They are using it. So, these pictures of course, are not --

good. They're -- it looks ugly.

NEWTON: Yes, it looks ugly and I suppose it's residents of Hamburg are looking at this squarely wondering where it's going to go next. In terms

of the desperate issues at place, we've heard that anarchists are there. You know, that this is a continuation of a lot of the anti-capitalism

protests we've seen over the years. In terms of its relevancy, what impact do you think it could possibly have on these political talks?

BRINKBAUMER: Well, like you have some of the leaders like Trudeau, or Macron or even Merkel, who are listening, who are seriously listening.

They go to these camps and they want to hear what they have to say. As soon as it turns violent, of course, the leaders turn away.

[16:10:00] How can you then actually get into a discussion? If these protests stay, stay calm, calm, not meaning, meaning not using violence,

they could have some influence. You know Hamburg -- I don't know if you know this city. The leaders are very close to these parts where the

protests are happening right now. This is the advantage of having a G20 summit in a city like Hamburg. Everything is really close to everything

else. The demonstrators, the protesters, are being heard. They're on television. You see them, I see them. So of course, there's some

influence. Once it turns violent though, the audience will turn away. The public will turn away and so will the leaders.

NEWTON: Yes, and the key thing. What no one wants. Again, security honestly, being a nightmare as these leaders attend events right now all

over Hamburg. Klaus, thanks so much. We'll continue to check in with you as things develop there in Hamburg.

Our Fred Pleitgen is also on the ground in Hamburg and has been on the ground as the protests have developed over the last few hours. Fred, tell

us what you're seeing now.

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Maggie. What's going on is that the situation has calmed down a little bit. It is

actually still quite tense. We're actually at the beginning of the demo. Can you see we're right at the front of it, that's marching through Hamburg

at the moment? There's huge police presence. If we look pan again to the other side here where I'm walking, you can see there's a big sort of column

of police officers that are at the head of this demonstration.

But before what happened is there were some pretty serious skirmishes that did break out there was the use of the water cannon truck. I think

basically what happened is that the protest march started, then the police decided they needed to stop because some people weren't complying with

police orders. And then things turned into a bit of a melee.

Again, right now what's going on, Maggie, is that very vocal, but at the same time it is you know, while it's still quite tense. You don't see the

violence that we saw before. That certainly isn't happening. Right now, we're going through the sort of center of Hamburg at the moment. This

protest march still has a long way to go until we're finished. Because they want to march all the way around the entire sort of exclusion zone of

the venue here. One of the main intersections here -- Maggie.

NEWTON: And Fred, I know it's difficult for you to hear me, it's Paula here in New York, I know it is difficult, it's very loud there right now.

But that is question --


NEWTON: No worries, Fred. I just want to know though -- you made an important point. We kind of assumed that sunset would happen, and things

would come down. And yet what you're seeing in front of you right now is that things show no signs of calming down.

PLEITGEN: No, you're absolutely right. I'm very sorry, I think after all these years, I think I said Maggie and I recognize your voice. You're

right, these people are still going very strong. They still have a long way to go. And I think one of the things that's also keeping the energy

level here very high is the fact that it gets dark very late. It's almost 10:00 --

NEWTON: We seem to have lost Fred's feed there. As you can see, it is quite a chaotic evening and I really want to underscore what Fred was just

telling us. This is going to go on for some hours. And in terms of the thousands of people that remain on the street and police trying to get a

handle -- and I've been in the middle of these situations -- it is very difficult for each side realizing that they've been planning this for

months, for each side to continue to get a handle on this and understand what their next move is, as they try and navigate those streets in Hamburg.

And again, huge security situation. It was interesting to hear Klaus earlier say that leaders like Justin Trudeau have other events on this

evening we have seen earlier. And we will be covering it now. The fact that Donald Trump is meeting with Angela Merkel. But also, the people like

Justin Trudeau, the Canadian Prime Minister attending other events in the city. And again, police having their hands full. And we're going to wait

and see exactly what their reaction will be in the coming hours.

We continue to have reporters on the ground there and we'll bring you the latest as we have it. Now as we were just saying, the leader of the

biggest economy on the planet is facing off in Hamburg with the head of Europe's largest economy. Angela Merkel greeted Donald Trump ahead of the

G20 shrouded by new fears that their war of words could in fact escalate into a full-on trade war. The German Chancellor says she is ready to work

with the U.S. President to find a way to move forward.


ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): I have to say quite honestly, this trip to Poland and meeting with other state leaders from

Central and Eastern Europe does not bother me at all. We have our agenda, but there are different conceptions of globalization. Now we want to see

what we can achieve together. I believe the globalization can be shaped so that it is a win-win situation. There must not always be losers where

there are winners. That concept is what guides me and now we will get to work. Thank you.


[16:15:00] NEWTON: We know the President and the German Chancellor sharply disagree on issues like globalization, climate change and immigration.

Today Angela Merkel's deputy went even further. He said he's worried the U.S. will spark a trade war with Europe. Last week Mr. Trump's Commerce

Secretary, Wilbur Ross, was cut off in the middle of his speech edit economic conference hosted by Chancellor Merkel's party in Berlin. The

White House official told CNN it was interpreted as a show of disrespect.

Now earlier this year, Trump economic adviser called the euro quote grossly undervalued and accused Germany of using it to hurt the American economy.

Chancellor Merkel was forced to respond and said her country would never try to influence the euro. Both leaders have sparred over their country's

exports. When Donald Trump complained about all the German cars lining Fifth Avenue in New York. Angela Merkel pointed out there are plenty of

iPhone in Germany. A few months ago, Donald Trump threatened to slap a 35 percent tax on all BMWs sold in the United States. I was joined by Ian

Robertson, the BMW's head of global sales. He told me the U.S. greatly benefits from their plant -- this is key -- in South Carolina.


IAN ROBERTSON, GLOBAL HEAD OF SALES, BMW: We have been in Spartanburg now for around 25 years. In fact, we celebrated just last week. And as such,

we have a global plant there producing cars for a global market. We're the largest exporter of automotive products from the United States. Last year

it was somewhere between $10 billion and $11 billion worth. So, I think our reputation stands for itself there.

NEWTON: And yet we do have the German Foreign Minister saying look he does fear that this could lead to a trade war.

ROBERTSON: At the end of the day, the industry that I'm part of is a global industry. When we entered the United States' market, a long while

back, we always had an intention to produce in the market where we are actually selling cars. But they're not necessarily the same vehicles. I

think that's what you see in Spartanburg. We've got around about 8,500 direct employees, around 70,000 dependents on the factory right across the

United States. So again, I think that's part of the success of BMW. But it's also part of the United States in being an exporter of automotive


NEWTON: You know, I can tell you, I know firsthand that whether it's governments or businesses like yours, that have been making that point to

the Trump administration for months now it doesn't seem like the message is getting through.

I mean, you have Senator Lindsey Graham at the plant a little while ago saying, I'm an American who loves German cars. You can't buy better

advertising than that. And yet we sit today at the opening of the G20, with still trade front and center and many people afraid there will be a

chill on trade. And it could affect automotive industry and German cars quite frankly, very specifically.

ROBERTSON: We're a firm believer in free trade. We think that is the best way to generate employment and skills development on two sides of a

particular marketplace. I was previously in my career, I was part of South African BMW business. And there we had a free trade agreement with the

United States. Which was a Bill Clinton executive order called the African Growth and Opportunity Act.


NEWTON: We just want to keep you up to date on what is going on in the streets of Hamburg right now. What we're looking at are police themselves

trying to get a handle on what our some fairly desperate groups of protesters fanned out across one district of the city or across one

district of the city, that are protesting. It seems that they are trying once again to -- police term here -- at least kettle the protestors. What

they do not want is those protesters that you see there to be spread out too far over the city. If that happens, police feel that they lose control

of them.

We have had reports of minor incidence in terms of violence, cars on fire. And we know that earlier police had been taking out the water cannons that

you see there, but also teargas. And this really is a kinetic thing that's on the way here. This really is a strategy session between very different

groups of protesters and police to see if those protesters can outlast police this evening into the night on the streets of Hamburg.

Again, we have a wide range of protesters there. Leftist protesters have been planning this for several months. We have anarchists, of course,

anti-capitalist themes also on display there. And police trying to keep everyone safe. What you're seeing there right now seems to be some kind of

confrontation at least between one protester who will not get out of the way. And that person being continually doused by the water cannons.

It will be interesting to see if they decide -- you see police there on the move, riot police on the move clearly seeing something that they did not

like. Again, we've had our correspondents on the ground who have said that they, the protesters were out of bounds in some instances and police

decided that they had to move in in a different way. And that's why you saw the water cannons and the teargas come out.

[16:20:00] Some people have criticized Angela Merkel for having this in her home town, for having this entire summit going on in the streets of

Hamburg. Almost two million people there, and they thought it would be too chaotic. Having said that, police have been preparing for this for months

and what they want right now is for protests have already been sanctioned for the next couple of days to continue. But for right now, for those

protesters, to get off the streets of Hamburg.

We're going to now go to another correspondent that we have on the ground there, which is Jeff Zeleny, our White House correspondent, has been

traveling with the president. And Jeff, you know, this is quite a stark difference to what the President had earlier in Poland. You were on the

ground there as well. He really got quite a good welcome from the people there. And now no doubt he will know and perhaps even hear the protests

going on there.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No question about that. The speech that President Trump gave in Warsaw, he was almost hailed

with a hero's welcome there. Certainly, delivering a prideful speech, showered with praise. That was the whole intent of the White House, of

course, to begin this trip.

His second such a journey in the past six weeks or so on a friendly terrain in Poland. But here in Hamburg, the situation, the scene of course so

different. There are protests that we've been talking about, not necessarily protesting the U.S. President alone. Some of his policies for

sure. But just the very idea of the G20 that is setting up the whole framework for the meeting here. But still front and center is that meeting

Friday with the U.S. President and Russian President, Vladimir Putin.

NEWTON: Jeff, as you've been speaking we've been rolling with live pictures as the riot police continue to move in. And what they are trying

to do is to keep those protesters from going into areas of the city. They don't want them to disburse too far. It will make it too difficult for

police to keep everyone in check and keep everyone safe. Jeff, I have to ask you, the President has been very clear during the campaign about how he

felt about these kinds of protests. Do you think he would have a reaction to this now?

ZELENY: I think he would not take very kindly to these types of protesters. He had a lot of protesters during his rallies and other things

along the way. He's called them losers. He's called them other things. So, I don't think he would want to hear their message. All I can tell you

at this hour as I turned behind and just look across this city here, we hear sirens. We see police lights. We've seen smoke rising in the

distance really for several hours up here. And we're on a rooftop just along the river in the center city area. But we can hear the protests in

the distance here so we are now at the sun is down here. And the police are bracing for more protests overnight. Something not unique to Hamburg

or unique to G20s. It happens at these types of summits that they want to keep the protests peaceful.

NEWTON: Yes, it is always quite a strategy session when they announce where the summits are going to be and how the protest movement will join

in. Because of course, they have a right to protest and police want them to do so.

As you've been talking, Jeff, again, we have seen some fairly minor skirmishes, but skirmishes nonetheless between the protesters and police

there. In terms of the president going forward with his meeting, we can talk about that for a second. We have talked before, Jeff, about his

meeting, of course, with President Putin. Were you able to learn anything more about how he's been prepped for that meeting?

ZELENY: Sure, I mean, the White House, his advisers have been prepping him, preparing him extensively. This is a high-stakes meeting in every

degree and this isn't a new situation for President Putin. He met with the last three U.S. presidents. This is something he is used to. President

Trump has not. So, his advisers have been trying to brief him. And were told that some of the briefing has been done not by thick briefing books or

reading long memos, but just sort of bite-sized chunks. About the length he would post on social media, which he often does. His advisers are

trying to get him to understand some of the dynamics here in that respect.

But the question here hanging over all of us, as we saw earlier in the day in Poland, when the President would still not acknowledge that Russia was

playing the leading role in interfering in the 2016 election. He said nobody really knows for sure. It may have been Russia it may have been

somebody else. Listening to him there, Paula, I think it's very unlikely that that is going that is brought up extensively in the meeting on Friday.

They want to talk about Syria, other issues.

[16:25:00] But there's no doubt the President has been preparing for this. And there are going to be a small number of advisers in the room.

Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson will be in the room as well his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, as well as translators. That we are told is

it. So, a small meeting happening Friday afternoon scheduled here in Hamburg -- Paula.

NEWTON: And Jeff, as you're speaking we continue to look at more video. Again, the police getting, it seems to me ever more aggressive with the

protesters just to make sure that they do stay in those areas where they want to keep them in order to keep everyone safe. Jeff, I have to ask you,

with while it may not be front and center the way North Korea or Russia is, there is a large trade discussion going on. A lot of these protesters are

against the kind of trade deals that a lot of these European leaders want to put on the table. And yet Donald Trump having a different stand on

that. Some wondering if this America first or America last policy?

ZELENY: That's a great question. Think that's one of the issues that German Chancellor Angela Merkel was discussing with the President earlier

today when they met for about an hour or so. As all these protests were going on they were talking about this. And trade is at the heart of all of

this now. There's no doubt that the President was elected with a populist strain back in the United States here. And that is you know, carrying

through the speech to the Trump doctrine if you will. But trade at the center of all of this.

And Paula, even as we're speaking, we're going to turn around, can you see some police lights in the distance. But also, you hear the voices, of

chanting. You can hear some shouting. Things are picking up from our vantage point here on the rooftop, not far away. So, this certainly is an

evening where as you can see those images, where tensions are indeed rising here. Police are trying to keep it peaceful. We certainly hope that

happens. We'll see if it will. Every now and then we hear loud booms across the city. Our colleagues are there on the ground, tracking this.

We're at a close distance away here on the rooftop, but it certainly is much louder than it was even a few moments ago.

NEWTON: Yes, and it's an important point to make, Jeff, the fact that at sometimes they've had the protesters miles and miles away from the leaders.

That's not the way it is tonight in Hamburg. As you point out, it's a great point, these leaders, whether near in a hotel room or a meeting room

can see the smoke, they can hear the sirens and they can hear lots of explosions. We are going to take a quick break right now, but we'll

continue to follow all the developments of the G20 summit in Hamburg.


[16:30:00] NEWTON: And returning to our breaking news in Hamburg, Germany. We are looking now again at live pictures from very close to the G20

summit. Now German riot police have been clashing with protesters just as Donald Trump and other world leaders arrived in the city. And here's the

problem, fire crackers, bottle where thrown at security forces who attempted to disburse the crowd. And police helicopters continue to circle

overhead. And what I can promise you is still a developing situation. Our Atika Shubert is on the ground. Bear with us. We'll see how her

connection is. But Atika, can you bring us up to date on what you see that's going on now.

SHUBERT: Well, the protest march is on the move and as you can see here, police also on the move as well. So far it doesn't look like they're

trying to disburse the crowd. They're just here sort of monitoring it. You can see the crowds up ahead of us. A lot of noise. Marching a little

further up. They've got a big sound system. It's much more of a festival rave like atmosphere than we saw earlier. But Police aren't taking any

chances. That's why you've seen at least four water cannons. As you can see, police now moving into position to kind of surround the demonstrators

and protesters.

What their tactic has been so far is to go in and extract anybody that they think might be a provocateur. Anybody who's with violent actions. To sort

of allow the rest of the demonstrations to continue. That's been OK so far. It has allowed the demonstration to continue, but there's still a lot

of concern that there could be still some more scuffles to come later tonight -- Paula.

NEWTON: Yes, we've certainly seen minor evidence of that. We've also seen those protesters standing directly in front of the water cannon that was

trying to disburse them. Atika you've been in enough of these to know that police are not going to be happy with the situation right now. Because

protesters are on the move and they're moving throughout the city. And that makes it much more difficult to control. What's the risk now as it

comes on to you know, 11:00 p.m. in Hamburg?

SHUBERT: I think the risk is really also going to go into tomorrow. Because we do know that a number demonstration groups for example are

hoping to target delegations trying to get to the summit. So rather than just one big mass march or protest like we're seeing today, but we might

see is smaller protests trying to find their way through smaller streets and disrupt whatever aspects of the G20 summit. And that's going to be a

lot harder for police. So, this really is just a warm-up to what we're going to see tomorrow. And of course, the big protest on Saturday, which

is expected to get about 100,000 people out on the streets of Hamburg.

NEWTON: In terms of lessons learned, whether it's a security issue in a city like Hamburg or the protest which has its own distinct tactics,

kinetic tactics that police look at. We've been covering these for years. Is there anything the police have learned on the ground about what they do

now? As darkness falls in Hamburg?

SHUBERT: Well, it's clear that they have learned how to extract what they see as the trouble makers among the crowd. Those who are participating in

what they call black bloc tactics. The question is whether or not it's enough. It's a delicate balance for police, whether to go in with force

and try to deter protesters which kind of puts an end to protests, or whether or not that just challenges them to amp up the violence even more.

It's a delicate balance for police, it's always been a challenge for G20 and other summits like this. So, everybody knew it was going to be a

challenge for Hamburg in particular, which a city known for its leftist protests, but so far, OK, although it's hard to say right now. It's

basically the protests have taken over the streets of Hamburg. This is likely to continue for at least another two days.

NEWTON: You make such a good point, they've taken over the streets of Hamburg. We have our Jeff Zeleny traveling with President Trump pointing

out that look, unlike a few hours ago you can see smoke, you can hear the sirens and you can hear explosions now and again. It's got to all end up

in a very unnerving situation for authorities and leaders alike right now in that city.

SHUBERT: Absolutely. And that's exactly what demonstrators are trying to do. They're trying to unnerve or unsettle the G20 summit. And their focus

is myriad. Some are for climate change, some are against capitalism. Some are specifically to protest against President Trump or President Putin or

President Erdogan. But whatever it is, they're trying to upset the G20. That's why they've been trying to make as much noise as possible.

NEWTON: Atika, you're based in Germany for us. Some people blamed Angela Merkel, saying she shouldn't have had it there. That the pictures we see

unfolding live right now that you could have sketched those out months ago, she knew this was going to happen. What drove her to make sure that both

protesters and political leaders could try to come together in a certain fashion in Hamburg, her home city?

[16:35:00] SHUBERT: What Chancellor Merkel has said was the reason they decided on Hamburg, they felt the G20 summit was so big, so many nations

involved that they need the infrastructure of a big city. And the Hamburg Messe is a very big convention center that can accommodate that. However,

it's also a city known for leftist protests, so yes, there were many critics who said it was not the right venue. But she insisted that it was

and would also showcase Hamburg, which it has to an extent. The question is over the next three days, what are the impressions going to be, of the

residents here and the delegations that come if the protests continue.

NEWTON: It's also showing the potency of political protests in Hamburg, which you pointed out all day long now. It has quite a history of that.

Atika, in terms of actually being able to disburse the crowd. I know you're saying, it doesn't seem the police are trying to actively do that.

Give us a sketch here, is there an area, a square, some place you think they might be trying to get them to, so things become a little more

contained over the next few hours?

SHUBERT: They did have an actual route to march through. It happened go through the Reeperbahn, Hamburg's infamous red-light district. They've

gone through the area and ended up at the main intersection here. When they stop in a big intersection like this, they take it over and not

everybody here is a demonstrator. Many local residents come out and see what's happening here. I think what the police are doing now is they're

kind of keeping tabs on this. They're not trying to disburse it just yet. They do have permits to complete the march. And then we'll see what the

police decide to do.

NEWTON: We will. Our Atika Shubert. Remaining on the ground with cameras following it all. Atika, thank you. We want to bring in Matt Qvortrup,

who is chair of the applied political science at Coventry University, who joins me live in London. Atika was talking about the delicate balance of

trying to keep the protesters happy and the leaders happy. That's what you do in a democracy. Angela Merkel doesn't seem to me like a person who

wants necessarily stop protests. And yet she couldn't have really wanted this.

MATT QVORTRUP, CHAIR, APPLIED POLITICAL SCIENCE, COVENTRY UNIVERSITY: Well at the same time they're not protesting against her. Most of them if

they're protesting against anybody in particular. Protesting against Donald Trump and possibly Erdogan from Turkey. Also, might add an element

of pressure on those political leaders. We know from biographies of many American presidents that they don't like to be criticized. They're very

concerned about being spoken nicely about. When they are abroad and they get awfully -- sort of wobbled a bit when they have these protests. So, if

one were to think about it in a cynical sort of way and many Germans refer to Angela Merkel as Merkel-iaveli. Who has a steely side who thinks about

everything, really it might not be so inconvenient for her. A lot being a conspiracist in any way, shape or form. It's sort of managed in a fluid

sort of way.

NEWTON: There's no way she didn't know these protests would happen. And we've seen skirmishes between police and protesters. Having said that,

we've been seeing these protests for many years. A lot of them tend to have the bent of really fighting inequality. Now what was something that

even Donald Trump tried to tap into during his campaign presidency. These protests do not seem specifically anti-Trump. Do you think in any way,

shape or form that the president will take comfort in that?

QVORTRUP: I think they can take some sort of confidence from that. He's got his plate full. He's facing a summit which has been planned by Angela

Merkel to focus on climate change, international trade and women's issues. And those are probably the three things that are, if you like, Donald Trump

sort of weakest links internationally.

So, he has to discuss all these things at the same time as he has to deal with the North Korean crisis. He will have a number of pressures on him,

he will be barraged by facts, he was barraged by facts when he met Angela Merkel and then as a result of that, for the meeting started criticizing

Vladimir Putin. Of all people, so in some ways the Germans have already, Angela Merkel has already benefitted from, from all these things that are

going on and Donald Trump has more or less performed or acted in the way Angela Merkel, had wished for him in some way.

[16:40:00] NEWTON: Matt, we thank you for the important context this evening as it now reaches 10:38 local time in Hamburg. Matt, thanks again.

We'll continue to stay with the breaking news, still hot on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, we have another issue, yes, North Korea and mixed messages, we

sift through the clues about how the U.S. will respond to what it says is now a major escalation.


NEWTON: We want to go back to the G20 summit in Hamburg, what you're looking at continue to be pictures from the protests, police have been

firing water cannons at protesters, as they try to organize and reorganize, members of the anti-capitalists, welcome to hell demonstration. Are

thought to be behind the violence. We know that they threw smoke bombs and glass bottles as they were ordered to disburse. It's two miles where the

world's most powerful leaders are getting ready to meet.

U.S. Defense Secretary James Mattis says North Korea's ICBM launch does not bring us closer to war. He callings it a serious escalation and

provocation, but says diplomacy is the preferred path forward. U.S. President Donald Trump seemed to ramp up the rhetoric on North Korea.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As far as North Korea is concerned, I don't know, we'll see what happens. I don't like to talk

about what I have planned. But I have some pretty severe things that we're thinking about. That doesn't mean we're going to do them. I don't draw

red lines. President Obama drew a red line and I was the one that -- made it look a little bit better than it was. I think we'll just take a look at

what happens over the coming weeks and months with respect to North Korea. It's a shame that they're behaving this way. But they are behaving in a

very, very dangerous manner. And something will have to be done about it.


NEWTON: Now, China and Russia say the U.S. and South Korea can reduce tensions by ending their joint military exercises. But the U.S. State

Department says that's a nonstarter. None of it comes as a surprise, Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr,

you've been following this for years, literally. In terms of what's going on now. Russia and China step in and say we've got a solution. You guys

stopped your military exercises and we'll have a nuclear freeze in North Korea. They're trying to set the parameters, unrealistic ones, but when

you look at what General Mattis said today, he was very clear, we're going to continue to give diplomacy a shot.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I think he is, Paula. You have two things happening on the same day. President Trump as a head of state

speaking to the world, making very clear that the U.S. is taking a very tough line on this. And is not at all pleased with what North Korea is

doing. So, he comes out of the, as the head of state with a tough line. Secretary Mattis made a very unexpected appearance in the press room.

[16:45:00] Talked to reporters quietly and said look, this capability doesn't take us to war. He also made very clear that the U.S. has military

options if it were to come to that. What he wants to make sure of is that these things don't escalate with rhetoric, and it doesn't become a

situation where people are suddenly expecting conflict to break out.

Because as you know, all of the war games show, all of the simulations, all of the analysis that a conflict on the Korean Peninsula, would simply be

disastrous. It would put millions of South Koreans at risk. Destabilizing to the Asia-Pacific region, if not the entire world this would just be

catastrophic. No one could predict what would happen next in North Korea. So, they are hoping that they can do something diplomatic without using

military force.

NEWTON: That's why as you point out it's been such a vexing issue for so many administrations. It's interesting that General Mattis decided he had

to weigh in today. Thanks, Barbara.

U.S. markets closed lower, weighed down by falling tech stocks. The sector fell close to 1 percent, amid a rise in global bond yields, the Dow was

down 158 points, the biggest loss in a week. European stocks meantime ended lower on Thursday, as minutes from the European central bank and the

federal reserve meetings fueled fears of tighter monetary policy.

The German Dax suffered the largest losses, falling more than .5 percent. France and the U.K. also closed firmly in the red. Now the EU and Japan

have agreed to a massive free trade deal on the eve of the G20 summit. As you can see, the major players in the deal, European Council President,

Donald Tusk, Japan's Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe and the European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker were all smiles in Brussels. Juncker went on

to say the agreement makes a statement about the future of open and free trade across the globe.


JEAN-CLAUDE JUNCKER, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: The agreement puts fairness and values at its core. Like our agreement with Canada, it will

set the template for others it follows the high standards of labor and environmental protection. It has dedicated chapter, on sustainable

development and puts the focus on fair trade. As much as it does on free trade.


NEWTON: Earlier, my colleague Maggie Lake spoke to EU Trade Commissioner Cecelia Malmstrom, who said this deal would send a message to the world on

global trade.


CECELIA MALMSTROM, EU TRADE COMMISSIONER: It's a challenge to those who do not believe that trade agreements are a force for good. That you can do

agreements that are win-win. And where you defend fair, sustainable good trade to the benefit of people in our companies, this is what we tried to

show today, Europe and Japan with this historical deal.

MAGGIE LAKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The German foreign minister is warning of a possible trade war with the United States. Do you believe that is a real


MALMSTROM: I think you should be careful in using the concept trade war that would be damaging for the whole world. We are worried about some of

the signals coming from the U.S. and we have conveyed those concerns to our American friends. The maybe proposal on steel related to section 232,

would be very damaging for the European Union. And we have conveyed those concerns, we will be affected by this, many of our companies and many of

the other companies of the world. We are friends and allies of United States. We think there are other ways that we can deal with the basic

problem which is the overcapacity in China.

LAKE: You mentioned this trade deal with Japan as being a sign of win-win, when it comes to global trade. When we have these discussions, many

economists can see that the global trade deals of the past, have left many ordinary workers behind. There have been unintended consequences. What

are you doing to make sure these new deals address that?

MALMSTROM: Well, it is true that globalization had left people behind. And this is something we need to be increasingly aware of and do something

about it. Trade is not the cause of that. But of course, the distribution of the benefits of trade needs to become much better and we need to invest

massively in social security systems. In education, in training. And skills and we need to make sure that the trade deals are sustainable. That

they're fair that we're not dumping prices, competing with a race to the bottom and they contain strong elements for respect for international laws

when it comes to international labor conventions, and environmental conventions and we're trying to do this with Japan. We share many values

with our Japanese friends this is an example of a modern sustainable trade agreement. It's putting up also predictable clear transparent rules.


[16:50:00] NEWTON: Maybe he's listening to us, sometimes Donald Trump watches CNN and has just tweeted a strong Poland is a blessing to the

Europe and a strong Europe is a blessing to the world. The president said that he believed the U.K. would be better outside of Europe than inside of

it. Again, keeping in mind, the scene, Donald Trump in Hamburg where we continue to keep an eye on the loud protests this evening, we'll be back in

just a moment with an update from Hamburg.


NEWTON: We want to go back to our breaking news from Hamburg, Germany, where police continue to really try and control what are a few different

protest groups, tens of thousands really on the streets of Hamburg. We're told this is just a warm up for what could happen in the next couple of

days. A German riot police have been clashing with protesters. Just as Donald Trump and other world leaders arrived in the city. Bottle rockets

were thrown at police and helicopters circled overhead. We'll continue to keep you up to date on this story. As our correspondents on the ground

tell us protesters really want to continue this march for the next few hours.

Now Venezuela's top opposition leader tells me tonight the people of the country will keep fighting for freedom. "Reuters" is reporting that

documents show 123 members of Venezuela's armed forces have been detained since April. Facing charges ranging from desertion and abandoning their

post to rebellion, treason and insubordination. Many accused of theft. CNN has reached out to the Venezuelan government. They tell us they have

no information on this. I spoke earlier to national assembly speaker Julio Borges, and asked him if he was terrified when supporters of President

Maduro attacked opposition lawmakers Wednesday in the assembly. Take a listen.


JULIO BORGES, NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER, VENEZUELA: I was with my wife, we were in an office like eight hours close and attending people. People was

terrified, my car was destroyed. My personal car. And all the parliament, very important pictures and the building as such suffered the attack of

bombs. That they throw from outside into the palace. Obviously, it was a very fearful situation but we have to, to be very strong in order to

continue our fight. And our fight is only for getting free elections in Venezuela. What we want is the peace of voting in Venezuela.

[16:55:00] NEWTON: You know how controversial that is, President Nicholas Maduro said I will not be complicit in acts of violence. He seems to be in

some measure condemning what happened. Do you trust an investigation will happen?

BORGES: That's a very huge hypocrisy from President Maduro. He is the one who creates, who orders, who sent people to the assembly. Today the people

went to the general attorney's office, as we are speaking right now. They are -- making this trial against the general attorney. So, they want to

take all the institutions in Venezuela and they want to force Venezuela to go to a constitutional assembly. Which is a fraud. So, there is a very

violent process from the state, from the Maduro government. From Maduro, himself to the Venezuelan people.

NEWTON: Last week, we also had the very dramatic attack by helicopter on someone who said to be with the opposition. Now that we've had the benefit

of quite a few days, what do you think was going on there. What was it all about the helicopter, that then invaded the skies of Caracas, it was


BORGES: Actually Paula, I don't have a very clear idea what are the origin of these actions in the helicopter situation. But it's a very clear

example as the event in the national assembly that we are living a turmoil in Venezuela, a very violent environment every day. I would like to call

the international community to take actions regarding Venezuela to put the spotlight about what's going on in Venezuela. Because there's no reason

for a country that can be in a different situation, a democratic situation, in a progressive situation, is under violence that we are doing right now.

NEWTON: So, Mr. Borges the OAS has been trying to do something about this. What do you want the international community to do? Do you think they've

let you down?

BORGES: Paula, you have to understand the Venezuelan problem is not only a problem within Venezuela. We have become a regional problem. We have a

huge problem of migration to Colombia, Peru, United States. The Caribbean, that's part of the problem. And also, we have the problem of traffic of

drugs, an organized crime. So, Venezuela is a regional problem for all America and Latin America what we want for the international community is

to create like a group or a bloc of different countries in order to help, build a solution in Venezuela.


NEWTON: OK, we want to bring you back live to the streets of Hamburg. Near the G20 summit. German riot police have been clashing with

protesters, as Donald Trump and other world leaders have been arriving in the city. A lot of incidents started when some protesters were throwing

firecrackers and bottles at security forces who were trying to control and in some cases, disperse the crowd. We're told that the leaders where they

are will be able to hear the chaos and see smoke in the air as this continues to be a long night ahead in Hamburg, Germany. Apparently, more

protests to come over the next couple of days.

If you missed a part of this program and you want to take us on the road with you, you can now download our show as a podcast. It's available from

all the main providers or listen at That's it for QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Paula Newton in New York. We'll have more from the

G20 summit in Hamburg.