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E-mail Chain Released on Trump Jr's Meeting with Russian Lawyer; Congress Members React to Trump Jr E-mails; Rep. David Cicilline Talks Trump Jr E-mails; Clinton Campaign Manager Talks Trump Jr E-mails; McConnell Delays Senate August Recess; Interview with Rep. David Cicilline. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired July 11, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:30:07] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Back to our breaking news. Donald Trump Jr released copies of what he says are a complete e-mail chain between him and the British publicist, Rob Goldstone. E-mails talking about setting up a meeting with a Russian lawyer with the promise of providing incriminating information on Hillary Clinton that Goldstone said was part of Russia and its government support for then- Candidate Donald Trump.

Let's go to our senior congressional reporter, Manu Raju, up on Capitol Hill.

Manu, what are you hearing from members on the Democratic and Republican side about Donald Trump Jr's meeting and these newly released e-mails?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Serious concern, Wolf, from both parties right now who want more information from Donald Trump Jr almost certainly he will be forced to come up to Capitol Hill. He said he would be willing to do so. Expect that to happen before the Senate Intelligence Committee. Mark Warner, top Democrat on the committee. says he wants to call Donald Trump Jr For at least a classified hearing to hear exactly what happened including interviewing people who were at that meeting and helped set up that meeting and said today's revelations make it crystal clear there was an effort by the Russians to try to coordinate with the Trump campaign and the Trump campaign seemed to, at least, Donald Trump Jr Seemed willing to accept that help. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Your Virginia colleague, Tim Kaine, said it could be potentially treasonous.

SEN. MARK WARNER, (D), VIRGINIA: I'm not going to weigh in on anybody, any of my individual colleagues' characterization of what's going on.

RAJU: Do you think it's treason?

WARNER: My job is to keep this bipartisan investigation on track and reserve judgment, until I see all the facts. But as I said yesterday, now the public is, for the first time, seeing some of these facts. And these facts that have shown in the last 24 hours that there clearly was a Russian government effort to discredit Clinton and to help Trump and that Trump officials at the most senior level were aware of that. How high that goes? We still have questions to ask.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And, Wolf, Warner stopping just short of what Tim Kaine, his fellow Virginia Democrat, said to us earlier in the day, that this could be potentially treasonous activity by Donald Trump Jr.

Here's what Tim Kaine said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM KAINE, (D), VIRGINIA: This question of collusion, which essentially starts to transition into potentially a treason investigation, when he was approached with this idea, he should have turned it over to law enforcement immediately. That's what anybody should have Done. Very serious, but I think the Senate intel committees and special prosecutor now have a lot more work to do.

RAJU: You think this is treason?

KAINE: The investigation, it's not -- nothing is proven yet, but we're now beyond obstruction of justice in terms of what's being investigated. This is moving into perjury, false statements and even potentially treason.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: The Senate Intelligence Committee chairman, Richard Burr, North Carolina Republican, would not comment specifically on Donald Trump Jr saying he's not going to say whether or not he would call him before the committee, Wolf, but raised, did say he wants this issue to be, quote, "fully vetted." He said we're very early in the investigation -- his words -- very early in this investigation, to determine whether or not there was any collusion between Trump officials and Russian officials, which is a little different than Richard Burr told me a couple weeks ago casting skepticism about whether or not there has been any collusion so far and other Republicans, Wolf, raising serious concerns.

And including Senator Lindsey Graham, who said, if there's any effort by any foreign adversary to help a campaign, if you work with that campaign, you should say, no, not accept that help. And fellow, close friend, John McCain, said this potentially could be, quote, "a classic scandal in Washington." He said, this is just another shoe that is dropping in this growing controversy -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Any help of any kind, whether cash or other kind of assistance, from a foreign national potentially is a violation of the finance -- campaign finance laws of the United States.

Manu Raju, up on the Hill, working your sources as well. We'll get back to you.

Meantime, bring in Congressman David Cicilline, a Democrat from Rhode Island, a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee as well as the Judiciary Committee.

Thanks so much, Congressman, for joining us.

REP. DAVID CICILLINE, (D), RHODE ISLAND: Thank you.

BLITZER: Do you agree with Senator Tim Kaine that potentially we're talking about treason?

CICILLINE: I think there is no question that this is the most serious information we've learned about this Russia investigation. The president's campaign manager, his son-in-law and his son meet with a Russian government attorney, identified to Donald Trump Jr as a Russian government attorney for the purpose of sharing information about his opponent that was part of the campaign of the Russian government to support the election of Donald Trump. Think about that. And this is very, very serious. Donald Trump Jr just released e-mails confirmed he knew these facts, that she was identified as a Russian lawyer, it was part of the Russian government campaign to help his father. This is Russian interference with our most sacred institution, the election of our president. I think there are a number of statutes implicated but this is further evidence that we have got to continue with these very thorough investigations by the Intelligence Committees, the special counsel, but it's breathtaking to the idea that they were willing to receive information from an adversary of the United States, from the Russian government are and in the context of -- don't forget. The only part of the Republican Party platform changed at the request of the Trump campaign was the policy on Ukraine, to be more favorable to Russia. The only area. And a presidential candidate and president who is fawning all over Vladimir Putin, can't manage to say one critical thing about Vladimir Putin. You have to view it in that context. Very disturbing.

[13:36:01] BLITZER: This is the first hard evidence, do you believe, of collusion?

CICILLINE: The first hard evidence of a coordination, a willingness of the Trump campaign to receive help from the Russian government or for something that was identified as a Russian, attorney for the Russian government. I think that's very, very significant. It's different -- it confirms what we already knew, that the collusion of 17 of our intelligence agencies, that Russian had an active campaign to elect Donald Trump and undermine Hillary Clinton.

BLITZER: Not all 17, but four major intelligence agencies that made the conclusion, the FBI, CIA, NSA, National Security Agency, and the director of the office -- office of the director of National Intelligence. All other intelligence agencies may have made that conclusion but weren't involved in the --

(CROSSTALK)

CICILLINE: Yes. BLITZER: I want to be precise on that specific point. The four major intelligence agencies, including the FBI, that were involved in looking at Russian meddling in the U.S. election, they all came up with the same conclusion that Russia interfered. They didn't just interfere to try to upset the U.S. or weaken the U.S., but they were deliberately trying to hurt Hillary Clinton and help Donald Trump's campaign, which is a significant conclusion.

CICILLINE: Apparently, everyone accepts that, except the president, who continues to, even as recently at the G-20, say, well, I don't know, lots of people do that. Maybe Russia, maybe others. This is very disturbing. This is direct information, and those e-mails confirm it about the Trump campaign's willingness. This is his campaign manager, son-in-law and son meeting in Trump Tower.

BLITZER: Jared Kushner's going to be testifying I believe before either the House intelligence or Senate Intelligence Committee, and Donald Trump Jr Says he's more than happy to Cooperate, to testify as well. We haven't heard from Paul Manafort yet, what he's planning on doing, but they're both basically suggesting they have nothing to hide and are willing to talk. That's a positive development.

CICILLINE: I think they certainly have to be put before the relevant committees, the special council and testify under oath. Testify on a lot of other information collected in the course of these investigations, but they have been untruthful in terms of not willing to disclose these visit, these conversations. Seems the only time the Trump associates acknowledge their meetings with the Russians is when it's reported and they're sort of forced to. Jared Kushner now has had three occasions met with the Russians and failed to include on his disclosure report. I think these investigations have to be properly resourced, have to be sort of left alone and free from political interference and important we get to the bottom of it and have the intelligence communities going to work and the special council.

One other thing to mention, the tragedies of all this, this is very serious. But as a result of this White House involved in scandal, Russia investigations, none of the work for the American people is getting done. No jobs bill, no infrastructure bill, no bill to deal with higher education, workforce training, securing the future of Medicare and Social Security. The work is not getting done because this White House is consumed with these ongoing investigations. They're serious and we have to get to the bottom of it, we shouldn't lose sight that as a result not getting the work Done of the American people.

BLITZER: Congressman Cicilline, thanks for joining me.

CICILLINE: Thank you.

[13:39:17] BLITZER: Up next, 2016 campaign manager for the Hillary Clinton campaign standing by to join us live. His take on the e- mails, the meeting, what they all suggest. Much more on the breaking news, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Welcome back. Top story, the latest bombshell involving Russia meddling in the 2016 presidential election here in the United States. Donald Trump Jr released a chain of e-mails leading up to his meeting with a Russian lawyer. A meeting where he hoped to get information damaging to Hillary Clinton. Those e-mails were dated June of last year.

Now listening to what Donald Trump Jr told our Jake tapper just the next month, July of 2016, when talking about the Democratic National Committee hacked e-mails.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, STATE OF THE UNION: Robby Mook, the campaign manager for Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, I asked him about the DNC leak and he suggested that experts are saying that Russians were behind both the leak, the hacking of the DNC e-mails and their release. He seemed to be suggesting that this is part of a plot to help Donald Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton. Your response?

DONALD TURMP JR, SON OF PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, it just goes to show you they're exact moral compass. They'll say anything to be able to win this. This is time and time again. Lie after lie. Notice, he won't say, well, I say this. We hear experts. His house cat at home once said this is what's happening with the Russians. It's disgusting. It's so phony. I don't mind a fair fight but these lies and the perpetuating of that kind of nonsense to try to gain some political capital is just outrageous, and he should be ashamed of himself. If a Republican did that --

TAPPER: President Obama --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: -- they would be calling for people to bring out the electric chair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's bring in our panel, our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash is back with us. Our CNN political commentator and former campaign manager, Robby Mook, with us, and the man Donald Trump Jr just referred to. And CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, is still with us.

Robby, I assume you remember those words in July of last year. He really went after you for suggesting what now appears to have occurred at least in these formal e-mails that have just been released.

ROBBY MOOK, CNN POLITICAL COMMMENTATOR: I think he did protest too much there. And, look, I'm glad this is all coming out now. What's concerning to me is, he was forced to release these e-mails. "The New York Times" got ahold of them and when he was aware, he pushed them out. What else is throughout? And we know the president was in Trump Tower that day. The campaign manager, the son and the son-in-law were all in this meeting. Was the president briefed on it? What else did the president know?

BLITZER: Because you know yesterday Sarah Huckabee Sanders, deputy White House press secretary, said the president found out about this meeting with this Russia lawyer only in the last few days.

[13:45:10] MOOK: That's what's so hard about this. They lie. I hate speaking in language like that, but these, this administration lies. You just saw Donald Trump Jr Lie at the convention. They've lied repeatedly about whether they met with the Russians at all. They've lied about their intention to coordinated with Russians we now have. I think they're -- it's entirely likely they're lying about the president's knowledge about this.

And the other thing that I think is very urgent now, we're seeing our foreign policy in real time influenced by this relationship with Russia. All this strange behavior from the president. His behavior at the G-20 meeting, coziness towards Russia, explains now. They were his campaign supporters, helping his campaign. That's why Congress has to step up immediately and say, stop it. Enough is enough. If you are tied to Russia, you're out of the administration. And you're certainly not representing America's foreign policy.

BLITZER: What's your reaction to the argument they're making, it was a one-shot deal, a meeting, nothing came of the meeting. It was a stupid meeting. This Russian lawyer had nothing and it was over with as soon as she left Trump Tower?

MOOK: Again, no credibility. What they say and what turns out true are often two completely different things.

That aside. Look at what else we know. Foreign policy aide, Carter Page, went to Moscow at this same time and gave a speech critical of American foreign policy in Russia. We know that Roger Stone, who spoke to Donald Trump very frequently claimed he said himself that he was talking to Julian Assange at WikiLeaks. And he naturally predicted John Podesta's e-mails would be put out. Enormous evidence already that this kind of coordination was happening. I think this was an important installment today, but there is so much more to come.

BLITZER: You wanted to weigh in?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, I think in terms of what Donald Trump knew and when did he know it, there is a sentence at the end of Rob Goldstone's e-mail in which he says, "I can also send this info to your father via Rhonea (ph)" -- his longtime personal assistant -- "but it is ultrasensitive so wanted to send to you first."

BLITZER: Donald Trump's first longtime assistant.

BORGER: I mean Trump's longtime assistant. There's nothing I see where he said, don't send it to my father. We know don't know. We know that Trump says he knew nothing about it, but we don't know whether Rob Goldstone's had an entire other e-mail chain with Rhonea (ph), the personal assistant to Donald Trump. So -- this is, I presume, what investigators on Capitol Hill and potentially the FBI would be looking at.

BLITZER: I have to assume, Dana, if we're learning this now, investigators on Capitol Hill and the special counsel, Robert Mueller, and his team, they know a lot more about all of this than what we're learning right now.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. The thing to keep in mind, this is all about the setup of the meeting. All about how the meeting got to be, what the pretense was for the meeting. How it was received. Who was there. We don't know what happened in the meeting. Now, in some ways, that might not matter, but in other ways, it could. Were there e-mails after the meeting that has, have more explicit sort of reporting, internal reporting, to various people in the campaign about what happened or didn't happen? It was a bust, or, my gosh, they told me this, whatever. And those are e-mails that are now probably fair game for the investigators on Capitol Hill and more importantly as you said the special council to get their hands on. Not just on Junior but others copied, Paul Manafort, Jared Kushner.

BLITZER: I'm sure they're asking for all of those e-mails as quickly as possible.

Everybody stand by.

There's more on the breaking news. The Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, announcing he will delay the August recess for the United States Senate. Details on that when we come back.

Oh, actually, Manu Raju is joining us with that.

Manu, thought we were taking a break.

Go ahead. Tell us what Mitch McConnell has just announced.

RAJU: Yes. Announcing that actually this recess which was going to begin on the first week of August, actually delayed for two weeks until the third week of August, as the Senate tries to complete a range of legislative efforts at the beginning of the month and as the -- the Senate majority leaders come under enormous pressure to at least delay, scrap, the recess in order to get some more Done from the Republican agenda which has essentially been stalled.

Now, this is a very significant development, Wolf. Rarely, if ever, does the Senate cancel its recess. This is something that is considered pretty sacred on Capitol Hill. The August recess, members leave town, they travel across the world, they do things with their family. They do things back home. They campaign. But under enormous pressure not just from Republican Senators but also the president of the United States, weighing in on Twitter over the weekend, saying he could not see how the Senators could be prepared to go on an August vacation if Obamacare repeal and replace is not yet been completed. Mitch McConnell bowing to that pressure and saying that, yes, indeed, at least will be delayed for the first two weeks in August, giving them about a three-week August recess.

Now, this comes, Wolf, as the Republicans are really struggling right now to get this health care bill passed. There's an effort right now by Mitch McConnell to rewrite the bill that they delayed and did not have the vote on, initially, right before the July Fourth holiday. And that new bill is going to be unveiled later this week. We expect a vote as soon as next week. But right now, we're getting indications from people on Capitol Hill that this is a very little chance that that bill will pass the Senate next week, given the opposition from not just Democrats but a number of Republicans as well. And as a result, the Republicans realize they can't just go home for a five- week break, not accomplishing some significant pieces of the president's agenda, so they'll at least delay the recess.

The question is, Wolf, will that actually lead to any more accomplishments in that extra two weeks. Unlikely that it would if they can't pass an Obamacare repeal plan.

[13:51:39] BLITZER: And, Manu, very quickly, can we simply assume that the speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, will also delay the recess on the House side?

RAJU: It's unclear, yet, Wolf, that simply that probably would occur. I would assume they would at least delay it for part of the time. But again, there are no -- this, in a lot of ways, is just a show, if you will, theatrics, if you will, because if Obamacare repeal -- this Obamacare bill fails, there isn't any major piece of legislation that either chamber will have to try to pass before the August recess. Now, there are things that have wide bipartisan support, like defense policy, legislation, the defense authorization bill that they will try to move forward. But not those main big-ticket items on the president's own agenda, health care, tax reform, infrastructure. Those things are way down the line, particularly if they cannot pass the health care bill as soon as next week in the Senate. So it's unclear what they would actually accomplish by delaying the recess but they know it looks really bad if they go for a five-week break, which is one reason why Mitch McConnell announcing today that he will delay the recess for two weeks and begin that in the third week in August -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Very interesting developments.

Thank you very much, Manu Raju, on the Hill.

Let's get back to our panel.

Laura Coates, our legal analyst.

From a legal point of view, there are potential violations of law here, no confirmed violation of law, but potential violations that Robert Mueller, the special counsel, certainly is going to have to look at.

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. And in fact, I'd be surprised if this was news to him. Perhaps he's already aware of these "New York Times" articles and the memos and the e-mails that were already distributed in advance of trying to get ahead of the story. But one thing to be very careful about is the word "treason" is often thrown around in these contexts. And -- BLITZER: We heard Tim Kaine, the Democratic Senator from Virginia, use the word, possible treason.

COATES: That word will continue to be thrown around, because the conduct is what you believe treason to be. However, in legal terms, it's a very specific context, and one requirement is we actually have to be at war with the people who we're giving information to or sharing information with. And a geopolitical rival that may be Russia not one we're at war with in actuality. So the word treason has legal connotation.

But words like espionage, words like campaign finance violations, et cetera, those are more apropos in this context of what we know right now. Given the last couple days, you can't rule anything out at this point in time. But the legal connotations are very, very specific. And the hook they're going to use from now on, I think, aside from that nebulous term of collusion, is that they have received or tried to get something of value to the Trump campaign. And for the very first time, you have the counterespionage probe that was geared towards looking at the Trump campaign associates, having a direct evidence, saying that somebody on the campaign tried to give something of value. Yes, it's a legal term, what value means, but certainly of value means what can be used to leverage your campaign and what you do not have to spend money on yourself to get access to.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Because the law states you cannot accept a donation of money from a foreign national or other thing of value. Is opposition research a thing of value?

[13:55:07] COATES: I believe it is. And the way that it's written is in a nebulous way to encompass many things. It's campaign finance, meaning, what do you have to spend money on and what Don't you have to spend money on and what would be an amount that would violate the campaign finance threshold. If you can use another entity and a foreign government, at that, to obtain what you don't have to spend your money on, you try to circumvent the actual campaign finance law. It is not an arguable concept. It is a fact. It is of value to not have to spend your own money to get information that would be useful to your campaign. But I want to re-emphasize, because of what he said, if Donald Trump Jr has said the truth, Manafort and Kushner may get a pass here.

BLITZER: These are major developments unfolding right now. Bombshell reports, the e-mail chain, we're going to stay on top of all of this throughout the day.

In the meantime, that's it for me, at least temporarily. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. Eastern in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

Anderson Cooper will continue our special CNN coverage right after this.

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[14:00:04] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: I'm Anderson Cooper. This is CNN special coverage of a major development in the investigation of whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians --