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McCain Surgery News; McConnell Delays Vote; McConnell Scrambles to Find Votes; Trump's Involvement in Health Care Legislation; Russia Meeting Attendees; New Poll Approval Rating; Made In America. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired July 17, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We start with a new push from the White House. They're calling it Made in America week, like past theme weeks.

So, the White House now looking to change the narrative from the multiple Russia story angles to more controllable domestic and foreign policy issues. But President Trump still took time out, at least this morning, to start tweeting, once again.

This is what he tweeted. Quote, "Most politicians would have gone to a meeting like the one Don Jr. attended in order to get info on an opponent. That's politics."

Let's go to our Senior Washington Correspondent Joe Johns. He's over at the White House right now.

Joe, do we know anything more about when the president's son may actually speak with congressional investigators?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, at the moment, it sounds like a holding pattern, from what we've been able to gather.

What we do know is that for the Senate Judiciary Committee, a lot of this is about the Foreign Registration Act and who registers as a foreign agent.

We did contact, today, Charles Grassley who happens to be the chairman of the Judiciary Committee. He says the most important people are Paul Manafort, who happens to be the former campaign chairman for Donald Trump, as well as Donald Trump Jr., and to a lesser degree, apparently, Jared Kushner.

Let's listen to what he had to say about bringing those people to Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R), IOWA, CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Whether it's Trump Jr. or Kushner or even the president of the United States, they seem to want to be very open and transparent about it.

And this is a wonderful opportunity for them to be transparent, tell their story. They'll be under oath. That ought to satisfy everybody on the committee that they're getting straight scoop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: So, either this week or next week is what Grassley has to say about bringing Donald Trump Jr. and Paul Manafort to Capitol Hill.

The holdup, Wolf, apparently is paperwork we're told, at least from the Manafort team, as they haven't received a written invitation as yet.

Grassley says he and Senator Dianne Feinstein, the ranking Democrat on that committee, have been working to try to figure out the wording of a subpoena, if necessary, for these two men -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We'll stand by for that.

In the meantime, the president also responding to the new job approval numbers that have just been released. The new "Washington Post"-ABC News poll pegs the approving number at only 36 percent. That's down from 42 percent in April.

What are you hearing? What's the reaction from the White House?

JOHNS: Well, the reaction fairly mute. And, as you know, whenever the president tweets about an issue, people here are loathed to try to explain or respond to that. The president tweeted on Saturday that he thought just below 40 percent wasn't too bad.

And he also talked in that tweet just a little bit about the ABC Wall Street -- ABC News poll that indicated, among other things, what he essentially was saying, more or less, is that the poll that had been taken this week was very wrong during the election. One of the most inaccurate polls, he said, which we're told is not true. Simply because that poll that was taken in the final days of the election did not indicate the right person to win the election but it was very close, in terms of the popular vote.

So, the president was wrong in his tweet. People here at the White House don't want to respond to what he had to say, at least right now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Joe, thanks very much. Joe Johns over at the White House.

Let's talk a little bit more about these stories and other developments. Here with us, our Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash, our Political Director David Chalian and Chris Cillizza CNN Politics Reporter and Editor-at-Large.

David, when the president says that nearly 40 percent, 36 percent in this new poll, nearly 40 percent, at this point, is OK with him. Give us some perspective because these numbers are pretty low, going back to presidents right after World War II at the six-month point.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Right. Joe was talking about the portion of the tweet that dealt with "The Washington Post"-ABC News poll track record.

I think the more important point here to fact check, though, is this which is that he says it's not bad. No, it's actually bad. It's historically bad. It's the lowest approval rating, at this point in a presidency in the modern era of polling.

And take look at that list there, Wolf. You see it on the screen. You -- there is nobody down at 36 percent. Ford and Clinton are the only two that joined Trump in having more people disapprove than approve being upside-down, if you will, at this six-month mark in the presidency.

But nowhere near the 22 negative, negative 22-point gap that he has between approval and disapproval, at this point. He is actually in a place of his own and it's a bad place.

BLITZER: It is a pretty bad place right now, 36 percent six months in. Gerald Ford had, what, he had just pardoned Richard Nixon.

[13:05:02] CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: I was going to say, yes, there was a little something that had happened --

BLITZER: Yes.

CILLIZZA: -- right before he became president that might lead people to be suspicious of the president.

And the Trump number -- excuse me, the Clinton number is -- that 180- day period was right in the midst of the travel office kerfuffle so a lot of negative attention there, too.

The thing about Trump, David has talked and written about this and I think is really important, too. Look at the positive -- the strong approval versus the strong disapproval.

So, these are the people who aren't, sort of, like, oh, I'm not sure how I feel. These are the people who really have a very distinct view.

The strong disapproval numbers for Donald Trump are numbers that I have not seen for a Senate candidate, even a House candidate. You have these disapprovals at 58. The high 40s, strong disapproval.

So, it's not just that there's a disapproval that people aren't happy with them. They're deeply unhappy. And the reason that matters, Wolf, is because those are the people that aren't necessarily going to be easily swayed.

Let's say the jobs numbers are better. These are people who are locked into their belief.

And, on the other hand, the strong approval numbers, yes, it does exist. But it's a third -- a quarter of the number of people saying they strongly disapprove. That, I think, is beyond just that initial approval number. It's a real problem for him. BLITZER: The Russia investigation. They really want the Senate

Intelligence Committee, the House Intelligence Committee, the Judiciary Committees, they want to hear from some of these latest players, including Donald Trump Jr.

I want you to listen to the ranking -- the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK WARNER (D), VIRGINIA, VICE CHAIRMAN, SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I would like to hear from all of these individuals. Whether we'll be able to get the Russia nationals to come over and testify is an open question. But those people that our committee has jurisdiction over, the Americans, I sure as heck want to talk to all of them.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: We need to get to the bottom of this. But the only way that we're going to do it is to talk not just to Donald Trump Jr. who offered to cooperate for which I give him credit, but to everyone who was at that meeting. And who was involved in setting up that meeting. That may be difficult, in the case of the Russian nationals, but we certainly ought to try.

We should also ask for all documents. Not just the e-mails that have been released, but all the documents that are related to any contacts that President Trump's campaign had with the Russian government or its emissaries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And the president tweeted, Dana, this morning. You saw the tweet. Most politicians would have gone to a meeting like the one Don Jr. attended in order to get info on an opponent. That's politics.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: OK. Well, let's just start there. And we've said this every time the president has said it in public or tweeted about it. It is not politics. It is not business as usual to accept a meeting and, more importantly, information from a foreign national, in particular a foreign adversary, in order to get dirt on your opponent.

The M.O. and the, sort of, protocol is call the FBI. And that is what his own FBI director nominee said in public, testified under oath before Congress for his nomination hearing.

So, he's trying to, kind of, create that narrative. And that narrative is just not true. OK. So, let's just put that aside.

In terms of the investigation, look, they're doing what -- they're doing their due diligence. Of course, in Congress and also the special counsel, who is not doing public interviews so we don't know that this is the case.

But they're trying to not just figure out what these e-mails meant. What happened in this meeting. How it was set up. What happened in the run-up to this meeting. How was it that these conversations via e-mail appeared to be, if not second reference, at least certainly not a surprise to Donald Trump Jr.? So, what does it all mean?

And I do think it's going to be very difficult for them to get the answers from the Russian nationals. If they want to cooperate, certainly they can come and they're on their own volition. But it's not like they can send a subpoena.

CILLIZZA: I get it. Donald Trump is, as he said, Wolf, if he is -- this is -- he said that there's nothing to this. It's a hoax. It's a witch-hunt. He should be -- to Dana's point, they should be 100 percent in favor of this is the -- these are the routes by which the smoke is cleared and people say, there really was no fire here. That, yes, a lot of coincidences but nothing real here. That's the only way he gets beyond it.

Instead, he continues to resort to name-calling. As Dana points out, this is not politics as usual. This is not operation research as usual. He's doing the opposite of what I think would be good for him to do at the moment.

BLITZER: Let me get David Chalian to elaborate on that. Because the president and his supporters say, hey, what they were doing is opposition research. Everybody -- every campaign does opposition research. But why is this opposition research different?

CHALIAN: Because it's coming from a foreign adversary. That's not the normal avenue.

[13:10:00] You go -- by the way, saying that and at the same time that trying to raise questions about the DNC contractor who was in touch with people at the Ukrainian embassy and they are expressing outrage about that. Well, why is that, according to their logic, then, not the normal course of business? What's to be outraged about?

If they -- I mean, they're trying to have it all ways around this. That -- as Dana stated, it is not talked -- you've heard it on our air.

Talk to any Republican or Democratic operative in this it game of doing research and opposition research. It is not the norm to accept a meeting at campaign headquarters with the most upper echelon people of the campaign, with a foreign agent who is doing the bidding of a foreign adversary's government to meddle in the election choosing sides. That is not the norm.

CILLIZZA: Exactly right.

BLITZER: And they're doing a lot of lawyering up over at the White House and in the campaign. And let's not forget, the president's re- election campaign is already in business, looking ahead to 2020.

BASH: That's right. They have hired a lawyer, Ty Cobb, to, kind of, be the central person for all things legal and all things communication. That's what they should be doing. This is what they should have done. For lots of reasons. One is to get their messaging right. To get their legal story right. But also, to protect everybody else in the White House from having to deal with these -- with these answers to these questions. Because, in many cases, they genuinely don't know the answers to the questions which is problematic. And they're being asked about them.

And, in other cases, it's just -- it keeps them from doing their job. This is Made in America week. You can ask the questions and there are lots of them about the hypocrisy because of his own businesses not being made in America.

But being at rally after rally, that is what his voters and supporters want him to do. Focus on getting jobs back in America.

And, you know, that kind of message, that is what they should be focusing on. And maybe if they can keep the president's Twitter in check, doing things like made in America, having somebody at the White House to focus on the legal issues, they can try to get back on track and raise those (INAUDIBLE.)

BLITZER: Very quickly. The re-election campaign, the Trump re- election paying for the legal bills for Donald Trump Jr. and others. They've spent a lot of money already, during these first six months.

CHALIAN: They have, indeed. It's a benefit to the fact that he launched his re-election campaign on his inauguration day. Have that account open. Doing all the fund-raising this fall because they can use it for that.

And to Dana's point about Made in America week and the economy. The one place in these polls where there is a strong card for Donald Trump to play, where he is more positive than negative, is the economy. So, it makes sense for them to try to steer their way out of this by leaning into their (INAUDIBLE.)

CILLIZZA: What is he tweeting about?

CHALIAN: Not that.

BLITZER: Everybody --

CHALIAN: what is he tweeting about? Not that.

CILLIZZA: Don Jr. -- I mean, this is always the problem.

BLITZER: All right.

CILLIZZA: Ty Cobb, whoever you bring in, Donald Trump is still the president and still has access to his Twitter account.

BLITZER: Stand by, guys. There's more we need to discuss. Everybody, stick around.

Up next, shifting statements from Donald Trump Jr. over his meeting with a Russian lawyer has triggered a mountain of questions from lawmakers on both sides of the aisle.

Up next, I'll speak with a key member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Senator Mazie Hirono is standing by live.

[13:13:53]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:54] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The Senate health care plan now facing another delay. The majority leader, Mitch McConnell, says he won't call a vote until Senator John McCain recovers from surgery for a blood clot. Two Republican senators, Susan Collins of Maine and Rand Paul of Kentucky, say they won't vote for the bill. Even with McCain's vote, the measure is facing a very significant uphill battle.

Let's go to our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who's joining us on the phone right now.

Sanjay, you know Senator McCain's medical history very well. You examined his medical records when he ran for president in 2008.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIE MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes.

BLITZER: Give us a sense of how serious this latest procedure was.

GUPTA: Well, I think, Wolf, when you read the initial descriptions, it didn't sound that serious. You heard about an incision sort of in and around the eyebrow, and removal of a blood clot. What we've learned, though, I think, the hospital has now released a statement saying that there was an incision that was made just around the left eyebrow of Senator McCain.

But then if you feel your left eyebrow, you feel that bone just behind there, that bone was actually removed. That's called a craniotomy. And the reason you do that is because you want to gain access to the brain. So this blood clot that they call it, five centimeters in size, was located in - or inside or just on top of the brain. And, you know, that's a pretty significant procedure to expose the brain like that.

We heard that he's doing well after the operation. That bone was placed back so, you know, he's - that bone is now back in the appropriate position in the skull. The big question is, what exactly was that abnormality? They say it was a blood clot. But was the blood clot caused by something else? That's what they're trying to figure out now. The pathologist will look at this and try and answer that question.

BLITZER: How long does that usually take, that pathological report?

GUPTA: Well, this was done on Friday. You know, it - I would say sometime by, you know, within the next couple of days typically they would know. And as you point out, Wolf, I - when I examined his medical records, people have probably heard that Senator McCain has a significant history of melanoma. One of the things they may not know is that he had an invasive melanoma that was located just around his left temple, left forehead and temple area. So that's of concern again just because of proximity to the area that we're talking about now. Is this somehow related to that previous melanoma? It's probably why the doctors were even scanning him and why they're being aggressive in removing this, doing this procedure. But there's nothing to suggest for sure that it is melanoma, but that's what they want to rule out, if you will.

BLITZER: Yes, and I hope they do.

Recently Senate McCain, he had a little trouble during a Senate hearing with the fired FBI Director James Comey. I want to play a quick moment from that hearing. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: That investigation was going on. This investigation is going on. You reached separate conclusions.

JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: No, that one was done.

MCCAIN: You're going to have to help me out here. In other words, we're complete, the investigation of anything that former Secretary Clinton had to do with the campaign is over and we don't have to worry about it anymore?

MCCAIN: With respect to secretary - I'm not - I'm a little confused, senator.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:20:05] BLITZER: Senator McCain later explained that he had been up late the night before watching a baseball game. Would that have possibly been an indicator that maybe something was wrong?

GUPTA: You know, possibly, Wolf. But it's tough in this situation to draw a cause and effect. Why is somebody having trouble, you know, sort of either remembering? That wouldn't typically be caused by an abnormality in this area. Why would somebody be having trouble finding the rights words to use? Again, not typically from an abnormality in this area, but it can cause headaches, it can cause difficulties in judgment and that sort of thing. Or, you know, it could just be that he truly was sleep deprived from the night before. So just tough to draw a cause and effect.

I should point out, the hospital very clearly said that he got this - the scan that he got for routine purposes. Now what that means is that there wasn't anything that, you know, prompted the senator to go in and say, hey, look, I've got a problem here. This was done routinely, probably as a follow-up because of his history of melanoma.

BLITZER: Well, all of us wish Senator McCain a very, very speedy and complete recovery. I know I speak for you, Sanjay, speak for all of our viewers, good luck to Senator John McCain. We're hoping for the very, very best.

Sanjay, thank very much.

I want to bring in our congressional correspondent, Phil Mattingly, right now for the political angle from Capitol Hill.

Phil, will this extra time buy the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, the chance to get the votes he needs to pass at least the procedural motion to move forward eventually with an up or down vote?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's an open question right now, Wolf.

Look, if you talk to Senate Republican aides, they tell you, on the plus side, this will give senators the opportunity to really bring their concerns to leadership. And that was an explicit request from leaders towards the end of last week, over the weekend, please don't come out and become that third no vote, the vote that would kill this bill before talking to us. Hold your fire, if you will. Let's see what we can work on. That's, in some sense, in that way, the delay would help.

But I want you to talk a listen, Wolf, to what Senator Susan Collins had to say over the weekend. Now she's a very clear no vote, but it's what she had to say about her colleagues that struck me as interesting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: There are about eight to 10 Republican senators who have serious concerns about this bill. And so, at the end of the day, I don't know whether it will pass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now, Wolf, I asked a couple Senate GOP aides whether the eight to 10 number of senators with serious concerns was accurate and they said, yes, that's a fairly accurate assessment. And what that means is, it's more than just the moderates who - from Medicaid expansion states or individuals who are concerned about the spending reductions in Medicaid over the course of the next couple of decades, and it's more than just the conservatives who are concerned that this doesn't cut back on regulations enough. It is some of the unusual suspects here that could be very real problems for them and that means that there is a lot of work to do.

Wolf, the key takeaway right now is, they don't have the requisite number of votes with or without Senator McCain and they need to do a lot of work over the days ahead to try and get them.

BLITZER: They certainly do. All right, Phil Mattingly, thanks very much.

Let's bring back our political panel.

And, Dana, you know, does the delay in a final vote, proposal vote, and then a substantive vote help or hurt the Republican chance of getting this legislation passed?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It could go either way. It absolutely could go either way. At this point the bill that they have now revised three times, three and a half times, is what it is, and the - it could - could give the leadership more time to convince, as Phil said, maybe most importantly the senators from states where Medicaid has been expanded and they are loathe to agree to a bill that has cuts for that expansion to help their constituents get health insurance and others as well. It could help convince them.

But more likely than not, more usually than not, having covered these kinds of debates and pieces of legislation for several years now, the more it's out there, the more the opponents have time to gin up their opposition to make that opposition known to the senators who are already on the fence. So it's really unclear how it's going to affect it.

I think the key thing for the Senate Republican leadership in the White House now is to get the bill on the floor. Once they get it on the floor, which is no easy thing, they have to make sure that they at least have 50 votes just to proceed, then they feel that they can start wheeling and dealing.

BLITZER: And let's not forget how close the Republican/Democratic margin is in the U.S. Senate, 52 Republicans, 48 Democrats, 46 plus 2 independents, 48. You lose three Republicans, it's over.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, that's why they're in such a tough spot right now. They've already lost two most likely in Susan Collins of Maine and Rand Paul of Kentucky. That means everyone else has to stay onboard. That's no easy feat for Mitch McConnell.

You know, you were talking with Phil and Susan Collins was talking about that group of eight to 10 senators. There's probably a subset of three or four that are going to be the toughest nuts to crack for McConnell at that point to get their yes vote locked in. And I don't think they're close to having those folks all locked in yet.

[13:25:05] CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: The difficulty, I think, is that remember when McConnell announced, OK, we're going to postpone it until after the July 4th recess. Votes aren't there. What did we hear immediately after? Well, there's about eight to 10 senators who are going to be a no. Well, here we are on July 17th. Still eight to 10 senators that are no. That's what's hard is that the delay doesn't appear to be convincing anyone.

I also think you need to find a way to build at least the perception of momentum so that some of these members who are on the fence feel as though, OK, I need to be for it because there are consequences, extra consequences. Why? I don't see that right now. Right now if you're a no, there's really no active reason for you suddenly to become a yes.

The bill, as Dana points out, has been changed a few times but it's - what the bill was prior to July 4th and what it's going to be, it's not fundamentally going to be different.

BASH: It's not (INAUDIBLE). No. And they aren't -

CILLIZZA: They don't have a secret, like, here's the awesome CBO scored bill that we were just waiting to roll out until the end, right? It's going to be similar for those reasons. What - how do you defend switching from a no to a yes to your constituents or anyone else?

CHALIAN: And, remember -

CILLIZZA: When the bill is deeply unpopular, frankly, among the average person?

CHALIAN: When the House bill passed, that momentum came from all those conservative outside groups that initially did not like the bill, right?

CILLIZZA: That's right.

CHALIAN: So then all those outside groups came on and -

CILLIZZA: And it paid to be for it.

CHALIAN: Exactly. And that that kind of moment doesn't exist right now.

CILLIZZA: That's right.

CHALIAN: They moved the bill a little bit more conservative in the most recent revision of it, and so they - I don't know where they look for that momentum at this point.

CILLIZZA: You need some -

BASH: There - there are -

BLITZER: So you don't think, Dana, when the Congressional Budget Office releases presumably this week sometime -

BASH: Right.

BLITZER: They were supposed to do it, I think, today, but it looks like that's been delayed.

BASH: It's been delayed.

BLITZER: Their new report on the latest revised senate Republican legislation, that's going to have much of an impact?

BASH: Unlikely, but it could. It could. I mean it -

BLITZER: In favor or against?

BASH: It depends what it says. It could be that groups like that are waiting for the CBO score, are waiting for another hook to come onboard. That would be kind of ironic since the conservatives in the White House have been trashing the CBO as not something that's reliable, but their -

CILLIZZA: It will be right this time. BASH: It wouldn't be the - it wouldn't be the first time we've seen

inconsistencies on both sides of the aisle when they're trying to get a major piece of legislation through.

But, remember, you know, the reason I mentioned just getting the bill on the floor and starting debate is important because there are other ideas out there. Last week we reported on an idea that Senator Lindsey Graham and Bill Cassidy had been working on, which is a fundamentally different bill, which would block grant the money to the states. They're still working on getting the Republican governors onboard. And those would be game-changing endorsement of a different kind of measure. So it's unclear if even that would work, but they'd need to start to get the ball rolling.

BLITZER: How active, David, is the president in trying to get the final votes need? With a 36 percent job approval number, that's not necessarily all that encouraging to those who are on the fence.

CHALIAN: Right. We know he's made some phone calls. Even when he was traveling to Paris recently, we know he was on the phone. But notice, it's not the president that is going to talk to the governors, as Dana's saying -

BASH: Exactly.

CHALIAN: That are game-changing. It's not the president every day going up to The Hill to be in the room with senators.

BASH: The vice president.

CHALIAN: That's Vice President Mike Pence -

BASH: Right.

CHALIAN: Who's really been taking the lead for the administration, along with the health and human services secretary and the administrator for Medicare and Medicaid, Seema Verma. These have been the point people to really try to make the case. Sometimes, as we learned in Providence this weekend with the National Governors Association meeting, it doesn't go all well that for the administration and they set themselves back a few paces.

CILLIZZA: The problem - David's exactly right. The problem is, the case here, politically speaking, is relatively weak at the moment. The bill is unpopular. Now, do people know every detail in it? Absolutely not. In the same with they didn't know every detail of the Affordable Care Act. What they've decided is, we don't necessarily want this replaced. We may not love what we have, but it's what we have.

So if you're in Maine or Alaska or even Ohio, I'm not - I can't come up with a compelling case today why you need to be for this. Usually that is - they are motivated by fear, either fear of the voter or fear of the president. They're not afraid of the voter, because the voter doesn't necessarily want this. They're not afraid of president because he's at 36 percent approval.

BLITZER: Not necessarily all that good.

Chris Cillizza, thanks very much. David Chalian, Dana Bash, guys, appreciate it.

[13:29:22] Coming up, we're now getting new word that the Senate Judiciary Committee may delay its hearing scheduled for Wednesday until next week. All in a bid to hear from former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort. We're going to get reaction from a member of that committee. Stand by.

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