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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
O.J. Prison Guard and His Former Nevada Attorney Speak; Conversation with Calvin Tennyson; New Developments About Minneapolis Shooting. Aired 8- 9p ET
Aired July 18, 2017 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[20:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST (voice-over): In 48 hours, O.J. Simpson will find out if he will soon walk free.
O.J. SIMPSON: It was my stuff.
BANFIELD: He`s now 70 years old and hoping members of Nevada`s parole board grant his release.
SIMPSON: I haven`t had on incident since I`ve been here.
BANFIELD: Tonight, we examine three milestones in O.J. Simpson`s life.
SIMPSON: I wish this would have never happened.
BANFIELD: The trial that put him behind bars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... conspiracy to commit a crime, guilty.
BANFIELD: With former attorney Gabe Grasso.
GABE GRASSO, FORMER O.J. SIMPSON ATTORNEY: I thought he`d be a great witness.
BANFIELD: His life in lockup with former prison guard Jeffrey Felix.
JEFFREY FELIX, AUTHOR, "GUARDING THE JUICE": O.J. Simpson can fit in anywhere. He was happy. He`s always in a great mood.
BANFIELD: And childhood friend Calvin Tennison (ph), who`s known O.J. since 7th grade. Find out what he was like before his star rose and after
it fell.
SIMPSON: I miss my two younger kids, all the birthdays and various things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired (INAUDIBLE)
BANFIELD: Questions swirling tonight about why neither bodycams nor dashcams were rolling when a patrolman shot and killed a bride-to-be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know why the body cameras weren`t turned on.
BANFIELD: The woman shot in the stomach while talking to officers at their cruiser window.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The death of Justine is a loss to everyone who knew her!
BANFIELD: Now her family says they just want to know why he opened fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sadly, her family and I have been provided with almost no additional information from law enforcement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) because it`s destroyed my life.
BANFIELD: Ohio governor John Kasich signing Judy`s law, named for the woman set on fire by her ex-boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He took away my mom. He took away my grandma`s time. And most of all, he took away the most precious and most gorgeous person
everyone knew.
BANFIELD: Increasing prison time for criminals who use accelerants to disfigure their victims. Sadly, Judy will never see the law go into
effect.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield, and welcome to Las Vegas, Nevada, and the Palace Station Hotel and Casino, the scene of
the now infamous crime that`s taking center stage this week in Nevada. O.J. Simpson could be granted parole in as few as 48 hours after a
kidnapping and a robbery right here almost 10 years ago. This is a special edition of PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
O.J., if you can believe it, turned 70 just a week ago Sunday, and he wakes every morning on pins and needles for Thursday, Thursday`s parole hearing.
He has spent nearly nine years locked up at the ironically named Lovelock Correctional Center, convicted of storming into the hotel behind me with
five co-conspirators and robbing two sports memorabilia agents. All along, O.J. said he was just stealing back his own stuff.
So what is life like for prisoner number 1027820 inside of his cell, inside of those walls and behind that fence? Life is drastically different for
O.J. He has a job cleaning up the prison gym. He even coaches and umpires and runs a softball league.
But as we get closer and closer to his parole hearing, who better to tell us about O.J.`s day-to-day life in lockup than one of the men who guarded
him there for seven years.
Here is CNN correspondent Jean Casarez.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): O.J. Simpson spent a decade as a football hero, then found success as a pitchman.
SIMPSON: I used to run through airports, now I fly through them.
CASAREZ: And movie star.
SIMPSON: What has that got to do with anything?
CASAREZ: Even after his acquittal in the double murder trial of the century...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty of the crime of murder.
CASAREZ: ... for some, Simpson remained a legend. When he was convicted in 2008 for armed robbery in Las Vegas...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guilty.
CASAREZ: ... number 32 became prisoner number 1027820 at Nevada`s Lovelock Correctional Center. Even behind bars, O.J. Simpson is still living large.
Retired prison guard Jeffrey Felix spent seven years watching over Simpson at Lovelock.
FELIX: It`s kind of like a cruise ship, but with barbed wire going around it.
CASAREZ: The prison has sports leagues, a law library, sprawling yard, even shuffleboard. Still, O.J. Simpson`s life at Lovelock has its routine.
SIMPSON: I started working as a gym worker, where I help supervise the activities in the gym. I start each day disinfecting the workout equipment
in the gym, mopping floors.
[20:05:08]CASAREZ: Simpson wakes at about 5:45 AM and eats breakfast about 6:15.
FELIX: His favorite meal is the over-easy eggs with cereal and toast.
CASAREZ: By 6:30, he`s cleaning the gym. Later, he`ll umpire a softball game. By about 10:30, Simpson may have a mid-morning nap until as late as
noon, followed by lunch and some cardio.
FELIX: He does a few laps around the yard. Since he thinks he`s going to be getting out of prison pretty soon, he wants to get himself in shape.
CASAREZ: At 3:30, a prisoner count takes over an hour. Then Simpson might play poker or dominoes and hang out with his entourage.
SIMPSON: I advise a lot of guys, and I like to feel that I`ve kept a lot of trouble from happening since I`ve been here.
CASAREZ: Some days, he reads the Bible.
FELIX: He does pray a lot. He keeps a Bible next to him in his bed.
CASAREZ: The 80-square-foot cells that each hold two inmates are cookie cutter, but something sets O.J.`s apart.
FELIX: He has the shrine for Nicole. He has a picture of her and him on his shelf. When he rolled over in the morning to wake up, that`d be the
first thing he saw. O.J. loved and still loves Nicole, and he still wants to find out, in his mind, who killed her.
CASAREZ: At 9:00 o`clock, they lock down for another inmate count, and O.J.`s in for the night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Jeffrey Felix is a former guard at Lovelock Correctional Facility. He was one of O.J.`s guards again for seven years. He`s also
the author of "Guarding the Juice." He joins me live now from Reno, Nevada.
Jeffrey, thank you so much for being with me this evening. You`re the perfect person to ask. What kind of inmate is O.J. Simpson?
FELIX: O.J. Simpson is a role model inmate. He never has any problems. He`s always looking out for others. He`s never got a disciplinary. He`s
never been in any kind of a trouble. He`s done everything that the parole board has asked him to do. He`s taken all the education classes. He`s
just done everything right. O.J. Simpson deserves this parole.
BANFIELD: So I have wondered, you know, for almost nine years what it was like the day he arrived. I had visions of cat-calling inmates and O.J.
sort of walking down this long catwalk with prisoners on either side. Is that anywhere close to reality on the day he showed up?
FELIX: Negative. O.J. Simpson could fit in anywhere.
BANFIELD: Really?
FELIX: He`s like an extrovert, a super-extrovert. He just gets along with everybody. He`s got a great sense of humor, a great attitude. He respects
people. He`s O.J. Simpson. I mean, he lives the life of a celebrity even behind the razor wire fences.
BANFIELD: When they brought him in, I`ve heard you call it a "squirrel transport," something in the middle of the night where it`s not the typical
prison bus and not everybody gets to see your arrival. Were they worried about him when he came there?
FELIX: I don`t know, but they actually call it the "secret squirrel." So when O.J. came in, he actually went to the infirmary for three weeks to get
acclimated to prison life, and then they put him out to the GPR. The management did a very good job of getting that stuff done right.
BANFIELD: So you talk about in your book how the warden pointed to you and said, Keep a eye on this guy. You know, he`s high-profile. Things could
go wrong. People might want to make a name for themself by taking out the juice. And you were dispatched to be one of the people to watch over him
carefully. And yet his first cellmate was, correct me if I`m wrong, a 6- foot-9 serial rapist who laid claim to something like 100 rapes. Did they get along?
FELIX: Yes, they got along. His first cellie told me that he raped over 100 women. And O.J. and him got along great. His first cellie would cook,
clean. He would do all the housework, and O.J. would just eat. They got along excellent over the years.
BANFIELD: And then the subsequent cellies, as you call it, cellmates for the uninitiated -- those were cellmates who also cooked for O.J. and
cleaned for O.J., and the deal was he`d buy their commissary. He`d buy their what? You call it the supply?
FELIX: That is correct. When you live with O.J. Simpson, he has money coming in and most people don`t. So he would buy all the commissary. They
would cook. They would clean. I always called them O.J.`s servants. I always asked him, How`s your servants doing, O.J.? And he didn`t like that
very much, but it is what it is.
[20:10:00]BANFIELD: So how did you come to know him? How did you end up, as you say, becoming O.J.`s best friend for seven years?
FELIX: Well, first time I met O.J. was in the gym, and we hit it off very well. I think he was looking for a buddy, and I just loved listening to
his celebrity stories. And over the years, you know, I got him out of a couple jams and I earned his trust to where we became friends. And you
know, he told me once that after Al Cowlings, he trusted me most.
BANFIELD: And those stories that he`d regale you with, these were stories about going, what, to Trump and Marla Maples`s wedding and being on Howard
Stern and sort of living the high life. Did it seem as though O.J. was living in his heyday because he was truly living a bit of a nightmare?
FELIX: You hit it right on the head. He didn`t actually believe he was in a prison. I think by telling his stories, like you said, he could leave
the prison and relive his old life. I mean, he lived the greatest life of all. He`d golf all day, party all night. I mean, what more could there
be?
BANFIELD: Yes. Well, you know, obviously, I think a lot of people agree with you. He had it all and then threw it all away in certain different
respects, four brushes with the law, four trials.
I want to talk about this last trial and that verdict. He didn`t seem to show a lot of reaction when guilty, you know, came down. And you have some
inside scoop on what was going through his mind right before he got into that courtroom and where he was right before he was called into that
courtroom for the verdict. What was that?
FELIX: Well, he was visiting a lady friend at a townhouse out by a golf course in northwest Las Vegas. And they just got done doing their thing.
And he thought for sure the jury would come back not guilty. He was just getting his own stuff back. And he got a phone call, I think he told me,
at about 7:00 o`clock at night by his attorney and his attorney said, Hey, they need you in the courtroom O.J. now.
So O.J. left, went to the courtroom, and he heard the guilty verdict, and he couldn`t believe that he was guilty.
BANFIELD: And in he went right away. I mean, they really just lead you right -- you don`t get a chance to go and get a change of clothes. You get
handcuffed and led out the other door.
And then he arrived on your doorstep. You have talked about a shrine in his cell, a photograph of Nicole Brown Simpson and O.J. near his bed. What
did you make of that? And was it there the entire time the you knew him?
FELIX: That`s affirmative. He always had that picture of him and Nicole. I think it was their wedding picture. So he would tell me when he rolls
over in the morning to wake up, when he turns off his alarm clock, he could see him and Nicole. He told me he always loves Nicole and he will always
love her. Nicole was the love of his life. And he`s very upset with the LAPD for just focusing on him. He thinks they should have went after
Nicole and Ronald`s real killers.
BANFIELD: And Jeffrey, you had this sort of surreal moment with O.J. you describe about asking him about the murders, asking him his thoughts, his
feelings. There`s two different things he talked about. First, he gave you a different kind of story about what happened, right? And the second
time, he talked about how he felt about Nicole. What was that? What did he say about how he felt about Nicole on his anniversary with Nicole?
FELIX: Every time O.J. would have his anniversary with Nicole, he would be very upset. He told me that they used to eat calamari and drink real
expensive champagne. He would go into a deep, deep depression for probably two or three days before and two or three days after.
And it always got me concerned, you know, because remember when the Bronco chase happened, O.J. Simpson was in the back seat with a gun to his head,
so he might have suicidal tendencies. So every time, you know, when he would have the anniversary with Nicole, I would always give him ju-juice
(ph) time so we could get together and talk about it and he could vent to me.
BANFIELD: And he said something to you about wishing he had done it all over again. And you asked him, What? Meaning done what all over again?
And he answered you, quote, "You know what." You know what. What was he referring to when he said you know what?
FELIX: Well, he was referring to the murders. I think the way he was saying it, he might have been copping to the murders. I think that`s the
closest anyone`s ever been to O.J. confessing to the murder, and that`s the closest he`ll ever be to confessing.
BANFIELD: So Jeffrey, this is your friend for seven years. Do you think he did it?
FELIX: Yes, he did the murders. But you know, they`re saying on TV now there was two people involved. So I don`t know who was with him.
[20:15:00]You know, he told me one time that two drug dealers came to his house looking for $30,000, and Nicole and Ron owed them for cocaine. And
O.J. said he wouldn`t pay it. And they asked if they could go to Nicole`s townhouse to get the money or to at least have Ronald go push, you know,
the cocaine at his restaurant to make the money back. And O.J. said, OK, as long as no harm comes.
Well, more than likely, O.J. followed them over there, saw something happening, either moved in to help or moved in for the kill, I don`t know.
But we know that O.J. was there.
BANFIELD: But to you -- but to you, he said, So they got the Colombian necktie, but when you pressed him on any of the details, like, you know,
your footprints in blood, he didn`t seem to have any explanation for that.
And yet I`m sort of perplexed and a little confused by why you`re wistful and you miss him and you actually have this plan to meet up with him for
golf after he gets paroled, if he gets paroled on Thursday. I guess you lived your life with a lot of bad people in that -- you know, in that
Lovelock facility, but you really miss someone you believe is a double murderer?
FELIX: Yes, Ashleigh, I can forgive people for things. I heard that Ronald Goldman`s mom even forgave him for the killing of Ronald Goldman.
O.J. deep down is a nice guy. He may have two sides to him, like I said in the book. He may have the monster side and the nice side. But over the
seven years, he treated me with respect. I never saw anything bad come out of O.J. And you know, he is my friend. And if he gets out -- let`s hope he
gets out -- we will be playing golf together down in Florida. If he doesn`t get out and they give him a dump, I`m going to be very concerned.
BANFIELD: Say that again?
FELIX: If O.J. gets a dump by the parole board, it could be a very bad day because O.J. Simpson -- you know, woke up every morning with that light at
the end of the tunnel, saying he`s going to get parole. He`s going to see freedom again. I mean, he followed everything to the letter. If they, the
parole board, give him a dump, he may not have any hope. I don`t know what he`ll do.
BANFIELD: And you don`t think he`ll live to see another hearing? You`ve mentioned that before. You don`t think he`ll live to go through another
hearing. It`s only three years from now.
FELIX: Yes, well, he could be -- when the parole board gives you a dump, it could be one, two, three, four or five-year dump. So even if he got a
one-year dump, it might crush him. I mean, what does the parole board want? He`s done everything they told him to do and more and they give him
a dump. I mean, O.J. may be crushed by that decision.
BANFIELD: Sure. Model inmate.
FELIX: Absolutely.
BANFIELD: Can I do this, Jeffrey? I want to read something from O.J.`s current attorney, Malcolm Laverne, (ph) and it has to do with the book
you`ve written and the stories that you told about knowing O.J. on the inside.
He says this. "Please note that Mr. Felix`s representations of any type of relationship with Mr. Simpson beyond the fact that Mr. Felix worked at the
same prison where Mr. Simpson resides is fantasy, wildly exaggerated, and in most instances, blatantly false. In sum, the issues that are covered in
Mr. Felix`s book are pure fantasy."
What`s your reaction to that, Jeffrey?
FELIX: My reaction that is he`s just like the media. You know, they come off with these crazy stores about O.J. getting stabbed, riots at the
prison, O.J. on hunger strike. Anybody can say what anybody wants to say.
My book is 100 percent genuine. And the only reason I wrote the book was to let the public know what`s really going on behind the razor wire. I
mean, all the stories out there made it seem like Lovelock was horrible, O.J. was in danger. He was in fear.
It was 100 percent not that way. That`s a well-run prison by management, and O.J. and I became very tight over the years. I don`t care what anybody
says. Everybody saw O.J. and I walking the track. Everybody saw O.J. and I hanging out. I know it`s true, O.J. knows it`s true, and that`s all that
counts.
BANFIELD: Well, Jeffrey Felix, it`s really good of you to join us. I do appreciate your time, and we`ll have to talk again once we find out what
happens in 48 hours. Thank you, sir.
FELIX: Hey, thank you, Ashleigh. Have a great day.
BANFIELD: You, too.
During O.J. Simpson`s murder trial, he had what was called the dream team. But during his robbery trial, O.J. felt it was more herself a nightmare.
He was making all sorts of allegations of in-fighting and ineffective representation among his defense team. And Gabriel Grasso was one of those
attorneys representing him. He is going to join me live next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:24:12]BANFIELD: Well, here we are at the now infamous lobby of the Palace Station Hotel and Casino. You might recognize those doors from the
now famous security video where O.J. Simpson and five of his co- conspirators entered that fateful night back in 2007. Everything seems the same here. The patterns on the floor are the same. Check-in is the same.
There`s one thing that`s very different, though, and that`s O.J.`s life because he made a huge decision. Those guys brought guns, and that was a
really bad idea for all the reasons you`d imagine, but also because O.J. was just here for a wedding in Vegas and thought he`d get his stuff back
from some memorabilia dealers.
But O.J.`s friend, Tom Riccio, also friends with the memorabilia dealers, set up the deal. They walked right past this gift shop and headed right
down towards this casino area, headed for room 1203.
[20:25:06]Bad idea because at that point, O.J. actually thought that his public opinion was on the rise after the acquittal in `95. He thought
things were getting better for him. But he went down through those doors over there to room 1203 to make that fateful deal, point of no return.
And it`s what happened after that point of no return that landed O.J. behind bars for the last nine years. Tourists, if you are coming to this
hotel to check out room 1203, you will be sadly disappointed because room 1203, and in fact, the entire building surrounding it has been torn down.
This part of it still exists, but the annex doesn`t.
But the lure is still here because Simpson and his five co-conspirators stormed into 1203 and they took memorabilia from two dealers, things like
game balls and photos and sports autographs and plaques. And although O.J. said it really mostly stuff that just belonged to him, the prosecutors
proved to the jurors that he took them by force using those guns, and he was convicted.
And when O.J. attempted to get a brand-new trial in 2013 saying that his lawyer was bad, his other attorney from that robbery and kidnapping case
actually came to his defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GABE GRASSO, O.J.`s FORMER ATTORNEY: O.J.`s a very eloquent person. And - - and he can explain himself very well. And so I thought he`d be a great witness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: That was Gabriel Grasso, and he joins me now live from Miami. Gabriel Grasso, I can`t believe it`s been nine years since you and I spent
so much time together during that trial. Thank you for being here tonight.
My first question is the easy one. Do you think he`s going to get paroled? Is he going to get the decision in his favor on Thursday?
GRASSO: Hi, Ashleigh. How`re you doing? Well, you know, I -- I don`t really -- I haven`t really been following everything, but I -- I sort of
know what`s going on around here. And my -- my opinion is all -- everything points towards O.J. getting paroled.
And the reason I say that is he -- you know, he`s been -- as your previous guest said, he`s been a model prisoner. He hasn`t had any demerits or
whatever they call them in there. He`s done everything they`ve asked him to do.
He`s -- his age is important. His age is -- is -- the fact that he`s 70 years old -- the prison system doesn`t really like to keep people in
unless, obviously, they`re doing life without parole or something. But the prison system doesn`t like having older people because they cost more money
in medical care. And so if there`s a chance to let him go, but this is -- it is a legitimate chance to let him to go. It`s not as if he`s not served
the sentences that he was sentenced to. So I think most -- everything points towards him getting out.
There`s always the X factor, which is the O.J. factor. And like in the trial, things can get twisted because it`s O.J. Simpson. So that I can`t
really predict.
BANFIELD: Ah! And that was my next -- yes, that`s my next, question, the O.J. factor, because honestly, if you talk to the cognoscenti in the
jurisprudence system here in Nevada, it`s lock. He`s going to get parole. He`s ticked off every box. He has been a model inmate.
He`s done the near impossible, if not impossible, by going nine years with zero write-ups, zero demerits, zero incidents. He`s done everything right.
He`s gone to classes. He`s gone through programs. He`s admitted his fault. He has asked for forgiveness. He`s done everything our system is
set up to do, right the wrong.
So if O.J. doesn`t get it, nobody should get it. But then there`s that factor. Is that factor that you believe played into your trial going to
revisit and rear its head on Thursday? Is that possible?
GRASSO: Obviously, it`s possible. But I think that -- you know, I`ve handled numerous parole hearings in my career, and the parole board is --
they`re a straightforward group of people.
I know the Nevada parole board. It`s a seven-member board. They`re actually going to have -- my understanding is they`re going to have four --
they usually have three members listening to parole board or parole hearings, and they`re going to have four members because with four members,
they have a quorum, and they can make a decision right on the spot.
And my understanding is that they`re going to -- they`re seeking to make a decision right on the spot because they want this to be over. The Nevada
parole board is sort of low-key. They`re low-key members. They`re not out to get publicity, and they -- they -- you know, the parole commissioners
are -- are wanting this to be over. They really do. My understanding is they really want this to be over...
BANFIELD: So...
GRASSO: ... and so -- so -- I don`t think they`re going to, you know...
[20:30:00] BANFIELD: You just mentioned those four, Gabe, those four. And we put their pictures up. I actually want to pop those pictures up again if
I can. There`s certainly very significant about these four.
Connie Bisbee, Tony Corda, Susan Jackson, and Adam Endel. They will be the four hearing out O.J.`s case on Thursday. But, Gabe, they were also the
exact same panel, these four commissioners heard his case in 2013, and they granted him parole --
GRASSO: Right.
BANFIELD: -- on five of the 12 charges. Those five were not small potatoes. They were kidnapping and they were robbery. So if they granted it to him in
2013, and it`s the same four board members, and here he is with seven left to go, there couldn`t be more serious than kidnapping and robbery, what
could possibly go wrong?
GRASSO: Well, first of all, I agree with you. The fact that they have granted him parole previously and it`s the same board members is an
important factor. I can`t downplay that factor. But I will add this factor, which is in my experience, there is a possibility, because you got to
remember, when they granted him parole in 2013, he wasn`t going to get out of prison.
They were paroling him on underlying sentences. He still had sentences that were consecutive to the sentences they were paroling him on which were
going to start up when they paroled him on the previous sentence. So the fact that there is sort of like another factor here which is when they
parole him this time, if they do, O.J.`s getting out.
So that may weigh a little bit more on a commissioner than giving him parole sort of in the middle of his sentence and knowing that he is just
going to go back into prison to start some more sentences.
BANFIELD: Yes.
GRASSO: So that`s the only thing that I would bring up --
BANFIELD: I hear you.
GRASSO: -- that may be a factor.
BANFIELD: Stakes are higher without question.
GRASSO: Because you got to remember -- by the way --
BANFIELD: Gabe Grasso -- go ahead.
GRASSO: You got to remember that the sentences that he`s consolidated now, he`s chosen to have consolidated, that he`s being paroled on or he`s going
to parole board on, are a 4 to 18 year sentence. Now, if we go back to 2013, it`s been four years since 2013.
So, what we`re doing here is he`s at the very bottom of his four to 18 year sentence, we`re talking about the way the sentences worked out, the one
he`s got to do. So it would be a first-time parole, which they gave him last time. So, like I said, the only maybe difference is that this time
he`s getting out if he gets paroled.
BANFIELD: Sure. Yes. And listen. It`s the carrot you hang in front of the inmates to keep them on a straight narrow hopefully while they`re behind
bars. Gabe Grasso, it is great to see you again. You look terrific. I hope all those kids of yours are doing well. You`re a good man, you`re a kind
man, a good family man, and I`m sorry I missed you here in Las Vegas. Thanks for being here tonight.
GRASSO: Sure, Ashleigh. Bye-bye.
BANFIELD: Straight ahead, we`re going to go back to O.J.`s roots in San Francisco and way before he was a Heisman winner. He was a high school
football star and he liked to kick back and listen to R&B with his friends and that is the O.J. Simpson that Calvin Tennyson remembers. Friends since
1960. He never doubted O.J. Simpson. He says the juice has been terribly mistreated and Calvin Tennyson is going to join us live next.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Palace Station Hotel and Casino in Vegas. We`re continuing our special edition of "Primetime
Justice" live from the strip. In just two days, less than 48 hours, members of the Nevada Parole Board are going to decide whether Orenthal James
Simpson should remain in prison or walk as a free man. O.J. has been locked up for nearly nine years and a lot of people agree that he`s spent much
longer behind bars than other people convicted of similar crimes.
Right now, I actually want to hit the rewind button. I want to go back before the robbery and the kidnapping trial. Before O.J.`s murder trial in
the deaths of Nicole and Ron Goldman. Before the towering inferno or any of the naked gun movies or even the Hertz rental car commercials. Even before
O.J. carved out his hall of fame football career. Let`s go back to around 1960, that`s when the young O.J. Simpson was in 7th grade, and that`s when
he met with my next guest and the two has been friends ever since.
Calvin Tennyson joins me now live from San Francisco. Mr. Tennyson, thank you so much for being with us. I so appreciate it. If O.J., your friend of
nearly -- I can`t believe I`m saying this, nearly 60 years, is granted parole, are you going to reconnect with him and will you sort of pick up
where you left off?
CALVIN TENNYSON, CHILDHOOD FRIEND OF O.J. SIMPSON: I would be delighted to see him and hang out and just talk about old times if he has time. I`m
pretty sure he`s going to be busy putting his life back together as quickly as he can. Like you said, he`s 70 years old, so he probably doesn`t want to
waste a lot of time just, you know, hanging out. But, we might hook up, you know, if he has the time. I`ll be glad to share some time with him.
BANFIELD: And so when you say you`d be glad to share some time with him, I`m going to go out there and presume you do not believe for a minute that
O.J. Simpson was guilty of murdering California -- of his ex-wife and Ron Goldman, is that so?
TENNYSON: Absolutely. He had no reason that I can think of
[20:40:00] where he would murder the wife, the mother of his children, and his children were upstairs at the time that the murder was committed. So, I
mean, what would be his point? He had other women friends. She had other men friends. He pay her support, whatever. And they both live happily. So,
why would he kill the wife -- the mother of his children? Doesn`t make any sense.
BANFIELD: Well, I guess, you sort of hit the nail on the head when you said he had other women and she had other men. I think if you are a study in
domestic violence, there are many men who go into fits of rage that no one has ever seen before if their wives or lovers are with other men. Is it so
implausible that O.J. who had a history of battery on Nicole might have taken it too far one night? Is that too difficult for you to accept?
TENNYSON: That`s unbelievable. I mean, slapping her around is one thing, but waiting and making a plan and waiting outside for the right moment,
jumping out of a bush, cutting her throat, stabbing her, then stabbing this other guy, then stay there and stab each one of them over 20 times?
The first time you kill somebody, you`re not going to be able to do anything like that. If they would have said O.J. shot his wife, his ex-
wife, shot her boyfriend, I could believe that. But to stay there and stab those people like a maniac and then walk away from there and don`t leave a
trace, just evaporate and end up on a airplane on the way to Chicago? Come on. That`s unbelievable. Unbelievable.
BANFIELD: Yes. I think there would be some who would argue with you about not leaving a trace. I mean, there were all sorts of evidentiary traces. We
don`t have to re-litigate the case. Some people said a lot of evidence was planted, other people said it was -- it`s a 22-year-old debate that never
go away, bu I am curious.
TENNYSON: Yes, planted, planted.
BANFIELD: You said before that you suggested that -- you suggested that maybe the killings, instead of it being O.J., was revenge, that someone out
there might have wanted to seek revenge on O.J. and the actual quote was you mess with white women and you`re going to pay. What did you mean by
that?
TENNYSON: Well, to put it bluntly, I don`t know if I can say this or not, but there`s a -- there was a rule in the old south, some of the masters
would kill their wives and blame it on the slaves. So, the -- the other white man would come, and they would hang the slave for killing the
master`s wife who the master killed.
So, it`s the same rule. Somebody killed the white woman so a slave has got to hang or a black man`s got to die or go to prison or whatever. So, that`s
what that is, yes.
BANFIELD: OK, I`m not sure I entirely follow. It`s a little apples and oranges. I do see the extraordinary injustice that you outlined and it is
not untrue, I`m just having trouble applying that in the California case.
But more -- maybe more to the point, there was a great documentary that aired on ESPN, 10 parts, "30 for 30" it was called. And in that
documentary, there was a lot of talk about O.J. and race. A a lot of people say that O.J. had abandoned his race as he rose to stardom.
TENNYSON: Yes.
BANFIELD: When the murder trial came along, he co-opted his race again in an effort to just defend himself, that was not in the true spirit of doing
a lot for race. Yet you have said he has done a lot for his race. Why do you think he`s done a lot for his race?
TENNYSON: Yes.
BANFIELD: Given the "30 for 30" and the O.J. FX series outlined.
TENNYSON: Yes, he can look at himself any way he wants. But when the white man or society looks at him, they see a black man that`s rich or made it
big, that married a white woman, and at one point their relationship failed or whatever, and they had a couple of fights.
And she bruised easily, and maybe he didn`t, she might have hit him first, and he slapped her, and in retaliation or whatever, and, you know, then
when the cops show up, she says he tried to kill me. And in reality, you know, it wasn`t like that.
[20:45:00] BANFIELD: I have a tough time with the bruising easily part. I mean, domestic violence is a pretty serious issue, getting more serious by
the minute. I think as generations grow, younger generations are coming to terms with it being a crisis in this country and it is not something to be
--
TENNYSON: Yes, older generations --
BANFIELD: -- certainly bruising easily isn`t a defense.
TENNYSON: Yes. Older generation, that happened a lot, you know. A lot of older guys like myself and O.J. and them, back in the day, having a
disagreement with your woman, wife or girlfriend --
BANFIELD: Yes, didn`t make it right.
TENNYSON: -- somebody get hit over the head with a skillet. You know, it doesn`t make it right, but it happened a lot, you know.
BANFIELD: Yes, doesn`t make it right.
TENNYSON: I think personally --
BANFIELD: I want to thank you -- sorry, go ahead.
TENNYSON: In my opinion, I think O.J. was in the airplane on his way to Chicago at the time those two people hit the ground.
BANFIELD: Well, I would be curious to find --
TENNYSON: He was already in the air.
BANFIELD: -- out if he does get the thumbs up from the parole board and Thursday and if he does walk out of Lovelock Prison. I would love to talk
to you again to find out if you`ve been able to strike up that relationship with O.J. again and maybe we can sit the two of you down for an interview
together. How`s that sound?
TENNYSON: That would be wonderful. That would be wonderful.
BANFIELD: Calvin Tennyson, thank you so much for being here tonight. I really appreciate talking to you. I really appreciate you taking the time.
I want to take you to Minnesota next. There are a lot more questions tonight than answers about why a woman was shot and killed by a Minneapolis
police officer. We`ve got the latest on this investigation into Justine Ruszczyk`s tragic death straight ahead.
[20:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Little by little, we are learning more about the tragic shooting of a bride-to-be in Minnesota who was shot this week. Not long after
Justine Ruszczyk called 911 to report a possible sexual assault near her home, she herself was dead. Not killed by an attacker`s bullet, but by the
gun of a police officer. That was late Saturday night. And now three days later, investigators have still yet to explain in detail why a patrolman
shot her in the stomach.
According to his attorney, Officer Mohamed Noor fired his weapon hitting Justine, but we still don`t know exactly why the officer shot her, other
than to say that he was startled as she approached the cruiser. Just a short time ago, we obtained the officer`s call to dispatch moments after
the shooting from Minneapolis Police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired. Can we get the EMS Code 3 Washburn and 51st Street? We got one down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Copy. Shots fired at Washburn. Attention to acknowledge shots fired and one down at Washburn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five-thirty. Were in the -- off of alleyway on 51st Street Washburn even side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Copy of north of alley of 51st Street, even side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five, 30. There are no suspects at large.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Copy 530. There`s no suspects at large.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five, 20. Where`s EMS on us?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: EMS is coming. Rescue is coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: CNN national correspondent Ryan Young is standing by outside city hall in Minneapolis where the mayor and the police chief are scheduled to
have a news conference in just I think the next hour. Ryan, we`re starting to learn a little bit more about what happened immediately before Justine
was shot. What did you hear?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, honestly, the last three days have been hard for this community because they`ve been asking those
question about exactly what happened in that alleyway. The neighbors want to know what happened. How could someone call 911 and then all of a sudden
they would be shot? In the last hours, we got new information.
The officer who was driving the car actually talked to investigators this afternoon, and they released that information about it. They drove up the
alleyway because they knew that`s where they were trying to to try to find the possible sexual assault. They then report that they were startled by
something.
And then all of a sudden, Justine appeared at the window, and that`s when this officer indicates in this investigation that he fired across him,
hitting her once. We do know she fell to the ground. They tried to provide her with some CPR. But at that point, it was too late, and she died there
on the scene.
BANFIELD: Ryan, what`s the story about a person that the police want to speak with that they saw somewhere in the vicinity? What are the details
there?
YOUNG: Well, that is a great question, because they said they saw a young man riding on a bicycle. They were hoping that maybe somebody out there
will know -- if they witnessed this to come forward and give the investigators some more information. Because look, we know the body camera
and the dash cam was not working in the car. I shouldn`t say they weren`t working, they weren`t activated.
The lights and sirens weren`t on. The dash cam wasn`t on. And the officers hadn`t approached anybody yet so they hadn`t activated their body camera.
At this point, there are no recordings before the shooting happened. We also know they canvassed the area between the homes to see if there was
other any security cameras.
At this point, we don`t believe there were any security cameras in that alleyway. There may be no video in terms of what happened beforehand, but
we do know, maybe after that shooting, the cameras were activated. So at this point, investigators are still trying to nail down the details and the
timeline here to see exactly what happened before she was shot.
BANFIELD: Just so tragic. I mean, I think we`re hearing in a really quick answer here, 10 seconds or less, most of this information is coming from
Officer Matthew Harrity, that`s Officer Noor`s partner, who was in the driver`s seat, correct?
YOUNG: Yes, because Officer Noor at this point has decided not to talk to investigators. He has obviously had a lawyer, but right now has decided not
to talk to the investigators who are trying to see what happened in the shooting.
BANFIELD: It makes complete sense.
[20:55:00] Ryan Young, live in Minneapolis. Keep on the story. And when we get more information, especially from the news conference that`s coming up,
we`ll definitely report it. Ryan, thank you for that. We`ll be right back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: The sun beginning to set on 117-degree day in Las Vegas, Nevada. Thanks so much for being with us all throughout this broadcast. Tomorrow
night on PRIMETIME JUSTICE, behind the scenes of Nevada`s parole board. Never before has a parole board been so interesting.
But we`re going to talk with the former chairperson about what goes into the decision to award parole, especially when O.J. Simpson is on the line.
And if it`s granted, what exactly does the future hold for O.J. Simpson? Up next, "HOW IT REALLY HAPPENED," an in-depth look at the O.J. Simpson murder
trial. We`ll see you again live tomorrow night from Carson City.
[21:00:00]
END
