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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Trump: "Let Obamacare Fail, We're Not Going To Own It"; McConnell: Repeal Bill Will Allow "Fresh Start"; Trump Still Waiting For First Major Legislative Win; White House: Congress Should "Do Their Job"; Theresa May To Cabinet Ministers: Stop The Leaks; Family Demands Answers In Justine Ruszczyk's Shooting. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired July 18, 2017 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones sitting in for Hala Gorani. We are live in CNN London and this is
the WORLD RIGHT NOW.
So Donald Trump and his fellow Republicans are trying to chart a new course on health care after stinging legislative defeat. But their new strategy
appears to be over before it even began.
Mr. Trump was counting on the Republican-controlled Senate to repeal and replace Obamacare, one of his biggest campaign promises. But that fell
apart last night after more Republican defections.
So just hours ago, Senate leaders decided to pursue real only for now leaving replace for later. But already the lack of support appears to have
killed that plan too. Mr. Trump, though, appeared determined to keep the effort alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Let Obamacare fail. It will be a lot easier and I think we are probably in that position
where we'll just let Obamacare fail. We are not going to own it. I'm not going to own it. I can tell you the Republicans are not going to own it.
We'll let Obamacare fail and then Democrats are going to come to us and they are going to say how do we fix it, how do we fix it, or how do we come
up with a new plan? So we'll see what happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: We are told President Trump was annoyed when things started unravelling last night, but a top Republican suggest the president
shouldn't have been surprised telling CNN, quote, "He was playing with a fire truck and trying on a cowboy hat as the bill was collapsing and he had
no clue," end quote.
A reference there to Donald Trump's "Made in America" themed event launched yesterday at the White House.
OK, let's bring in White House reporter, Stephen Collinson, and Washington correspondent, Ryan Nobles. Gentlemen, good to see you both. Stephen, to
you first, they are going to ditch replacing Obamacare and they are going to try to repeal it. Any (inaudible) on that so far?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: It does not look, Hannah, that that is going to work either. We've already had three Republican
senators come out and say they are against this move.
The Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, can only afford to lose two Republican senators. So it appears for now at least that that is also dead
as an option.
The reason being that if Republican senators go on the record and voter to repeal Obamacare without a replacement, you're putting a lot of trust in
what has been rather dysfunctional Congress to come up with some kind of replacement at a later date.
You risk growing -- the health market is a complete chaos, you know, (inaudible) millions of Americans off their health insurance with nothing
left to replace it. So when the president comes out and says, you know what, I'm just going to let Obamacare fail and then Democrats will come to
me and want to fix it.
That is I think rather a leap of faith politically. It does not seem to me very lightly that that would be the case. The Republicans, as you know,
control Congress and they control the White House.
If millions of Americans lose health insurance on their watch, they are going to pay a political price for it.
JONES: Ryan, of the various paths put forward so far today, two have really stood out for me, John McCain, Senator McCain saying that we need a
And then Donald Trump, the president taking to Twitter as he often does earlier on today saying, what we really need is just to change the voting
rules in the Senate. So it's effectively work together or rip up the U.S. Constitution. What's more likely?
RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I don't know. Either option is really likely right now, Hannah, and I think that's the problem that Mitch
McConnell has right now is that every path that he attempts to go down, there are some sort of a road block in front of him.
And yes, there are a number of moderate Republicans that would love to bring Democrats into the conversation, but the second that you move the
bill further to the left, then you're going to lose conservative voters on the other side.
And that is why you hear the president suggesting that they abandon these long-held Senate rules that require 60 votes to get major pieces of
legislation passed and instead just get that 51 number.
There isn't seemed to be a real appetite even from Republicans to go down that road because they know once they cross that bridge. It will be very
difficult to go back over, and if Democrats ever get control of the Senate, then they will be in the position of never being able to stop any
So you know, Mitch McConnell does not have very many options right now and he did say a few minutes ago that they are going to push forward with the
vote at some point this week.
[15:05:11]At this point, that vote appears destined to fail and that leaves many wondering exactly where they go next on healthcare.
JONES: Yes, and why they even announced the possibility of a vote as well. But Stephen, to you next, six months in to Donald Trump's presidency and no
legislative success so far.
He is trying to push this away from himself saying, we are not going own this. I'm not going to own this. But how big a blow is this to his
COLLINSON: Well, it's a huge blow. You have a president who has done a 36 percent approval rating. He has overshadowed every single day by the
Russia crisis. Now it is demonstrated that he can't produce legislation on his major priority.
He ran on repealing and replacing Obamacare, making the system cheaper, more accessible, and a lot better in many ways. This is the core of Donald
Trump's appeal to his voters that he was a dealmaker. That he was a businessman.
That he can get this dysfunctional Washington machine moving and he would deliver for the people in the heartland. This seems this defeat on
healthcare seems to completely repudiate that.
The question now is how does he bounce back? Is this something that's just endemic to healthcare? That it is such a big political lift and it is such
a difficult issue and it was an unpopular bill after all or does this -- when he turns the tax reform, for example, which is his next big
legislative priority, do we see the same factions in the Republican Party scoffing, moving towards a deal?
Is the president's own political methodology, this somewhat vagueness with the details of policy, a tendency to seek out enemies, and then to blame
other people when things go wrong as we've seen today? How does that translate to passing other legislation?
This is really a question of the president's power and influence in Washington, what would seem is that Republican senators do not fear this
president and they don't feel loyalty towards him.
And that's a huge problem if you are trying to pass legislation in Washington.
JONES: It is certainly a huge problem for the Republicans and for the whole of Congress as well. Stephen Collinson, Ryan Nobles, thanks to you
Now the healthcare setback, of course, leaves Mr. Trump without a major legislative achievement since he took office six months ago. I want to
bring in now CNN's senior political analyst, Ron Brownstein. He is also a senior editor for "The Atlantic."
Good to see you, Ron. Thanks for coming on. I'm wondering how much Donald Trump is personally invested in healthcare reform. Does he just want to
kind of push it to the back water now or does he still think a need, a change?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, it was fascinating to watch this from the outset because from the beginning the healthcare
bills that first House and then the Senate Republicans crafted really collided with the way that Donald Trump presented himself during the
I mean, in essence, he said I was going to make -- not in essence, literally he said to Josh Green, whose book is out today, "I am going to
make Republican Party a workers' party. I'm going to shift it to focus on the concerns of blue-collar workers."
And part of that was defending Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid, which he specifically said he was not going to cut, and then he allow the
House and Senate Republicans to produce a bill.
That was something to me of a time warp, a bill from an earlier generations of the Republican Party when their constituency was not so heavily tilted
towards lower income and older white voters who rely on those programs.
And I think no matter what road they went down in the end the brick wall they kept hitting was not all of their repeal and replace plans impose
significant costs on their own voters.
Whether it's those older and lower income whites who would lose coverage. Whether it's rural hospitals that are heavily dependent on Medicaid, fewer
people (inaudible) provided coverage in rural areas, or whether it was the community struggling with the opioid crisis that rely now heavily on
And every direction they kept crossing the interest of their own voters and I think that in the end was too big a rock to carry.
JONES: So much talk about the lack of bipartisanship between the Republicans and the Democrats, but also one have to wonder now about the
relationship between President Donald Trump and his own party, the Republicans as well.
Of course, you know, many people (inaudible) midterm elections coming up. They are looking towards 2018 and also we are hearing from the White House
just in the last hour or so that Sarah Huckabee Sanders has said that Congress needs to do their job.
But it's effectively saying this is not on us. This is on you. How soon are we going to see some Republican more defections?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, look, you know, I've talked to Republicans -- first of all, I talk to Republicans on Capitol Hill, who have never thought that
Donald Trump was unequivocally in their corner.
I mean, they've always believe that it serves as interest at some point he would kind of step outside and you know, reposition himself as the outsider
running against both parties and failed politics in Washington, and that's entirely possible.
I mean, the problem they've got in 2018 is that there has become a stronger correlation in recent years in both our House and Senate elections between
attitudes about the incumbent president at how you vote in the midterm.
[15:10:11]I mean, if you go back to the Senate races, for example, in 2016, 2014, really since year 2000, roughly 80 percent of the people who approved
by the president vote for his party's candidate in any given competitive Senate race.
And roughly 80 percent or more of the people who disapprove vote against him. So they are -- I guess, I think that the logical outcome of
overseeing is more distanced and separation between the Congress and the White House. But even with that, they are bounded and his fate and their
fate heavily correlated in 2018.
JONES: But is there a fear that it's perhaps receding now? Before there was a fear of stepping away from the White House and away from the
president that perhaps it is now not so much there. You know, we've seen four Republican senators step against him in this case that we may now see
BROWNSTEIN: You know, what you've heard -- you know, we've heard the story as well, Donald Trump is still popular with the base. Therefore, we can't
express publicly the reservations that we have privately.
As I point out in my column on cnn.com today, his standing among Republicans -- voters in his own party is no better than other presidents
among voters in their own party at this point in his presidency.
And just as important, when we have seen cases in the past, whether it was the hearings that the Democratic Senate did on Vietnam in 1966, the
Watergate Committee in 1973, the Iran contra investigation '87 when members of a president's own party have stood up to him.
They were comparably popular within their own party. So it is something of a dodge for members of Congress to say, look, we can't come out. Almost
always, Hannah, when they have criticized the president on their own party, they've been leading not following public opinion.
And I do think that to the extent that members -- Republicans in Congress don't think that Trump is an asset in casting their agenda. The other
doubts they have about is temperament, about Russia, about the ways approaching the presidency.
They will feel more free to express those. They've been I think deferring that out of this belief that if we lock arms and pass our agenda that is
still the best way for us to go.
If they can't pass the agenda, I think those doubts we are going to hear probably more about.
JONES: Well, one of the things that they are going to have to do is they are going to be to work with the Democrats, with the other side of the
House as well. This is -- I think we can hear some sound now from Chuck Schumer, the Senate minority leader speaking not that long ago about health
care and the way that he feels his party is being just completely pushed out of the whole debate. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: Early on, the majority leader told Democrats, we don't need you. We don't want you.
Respectfully, I take issue with the idea Democrats did not want to engage on healthcare. The majority Leader admitted that he decided the matter for
us when he locked Democrats out of the process at the outset.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: How do you even begin Ron to build some sort of a bipartisan approach with that kind of sentiments in the House?
BROWNSTEIN: First of all, I mean, there was a lot of hubris on the part of the senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell. He has 52 votes. He doesn't
have 60 votes, which was Obama had when he passed healthcare.
And from the beginning on both health care and (inaudible) taxes, the (inaudible) has been we are going to pass this through the special process
for reconciliation, which allows us to pass it with 50 votes plus Mike Pence and no contact with Democrats.
In the case of healthcare it's important to note, it wasn't only Democrats that was squeezed out. It was all of the interest in the medical
community, the hospitals, the doctors, the pediatricians, the patient groups, seniors, they all completely excluded from the process.
JONES: (Inaudible) as well you could say.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I mean --
JONES: (Inaudible) in general.
BROWNSTEIN: No women on the 13 member special secret group that was negotiating this. I mean, they were acting as though they had this
landslide mandate and this huge majority in the Senate they do not have that.
And on most issues, they are going to need to find a way to peel off at least some Democratic support. Now tax reform could be the exception. It
is reasonably possible that the kind of recoil from the failure of healthcare will encourage those moderate Republicans, who were critical,
and the conservatives who are critical in sinking this.
The kind of pull together and say, OK, here's one thing we can all agree on cutting taxes where they are going to have a problem if they try to stick
to Plan A, which was (inaudible) neutral. They have the tax cuts offset by other revenue changes, (inaudible).
That's why it's hard to make it permanent. That's going to be very hard, but if they cut taxes, Republicans may be able to join together on that.
JONES: Tax reform, the next thing they have to tackle. We look forward to it. Ron Brownstein, great to get your perspective. Thank you.
BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.
GORANI: And we will get perspective from a Republican lawyer later on the WORLD RIGHT NOW. New Jersey Representative Leonard Lance is my guest in
around 15 minutes time. So stay tuned for that.
Now while lawmakers in the United States are having a tough time passing legislation, here in the United Kingdom, Prime Minister Theresa May is
having to lay down the law to her own cabinet.
She told them it was time to show strength and unity. That came after reports that cabinet members leaks updates to the press saying there was
infighting over Brexit.
[15:15:08]It comes on the second day of the latest round Brexit talks in Brussels. And as Nina dos Santos reports, people in the U.K. are feeling
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN MONEY EUROPE EDITOR: Londoners have always known there is no such thing as a free lunch. While inflation may have soften
this month, prices still rising faster than wages, and the uncertainty surrounding Brexit is becoming increasingly hard to swallow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are angry. People just isn't paid enough. Things are getting hacked. Wrong things are being cut. The right things
are not (inaudible). So that hurts in my opinion. Everything is rolling backward and not forward like it should be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we are happy to survive (inaudible).
DOS SANTOS: Such angst costs Prime Minister Theresa May her majority. Allowing Jeremy Corbyn to pitch his Labour Party as a government in
waiting. One which he has promised Brussels would be more conciliatory in exit negotiations.
Even the man who spearheaded the leave campaign now thinks Brexit is a bad idea with the government so ill-prepared, its representatives appear to
come empty-handed to this month's E.U. talks.
For May making friends further afield is not going to plan either, but May being quick to offer Donald Trump a state visit that amidst scissoring over
dates, pro-E.U. leaders like Merkel and Macron wasted no time in welcoming the U.S. president themselves.
(on camera): So where does this leave the U.K.? Well, increasingly isolated and in London, home to a court of the nation's GDP, businesses are
becoming increasingly skeptical that Brexit will become invested by 2019.
SADIQ KHAN, LONDON MAYOR: It was also (inaudible) served were supposed to negotiate and exit within two years and what the government is now talking
about and welcomed this is a transitional period for two years to get people certainty before we enter a new arrangement with the European
DOS SANTOS: Meanwhile, banks are accelerating their contingency plans and looking for alternative European headquarters, but Paris and Frankfurt
making audacious bits for their business, moves which could leave the whole of Britain paying a hefty price before Brexit has even begun. Nina Dos
Santos, CNN, London.
JONES: Stay with us here on CNN this evening. We will have much more on the story in the program. I will be joined by (inaudible), the former
secretary in the British cabinet. That's in around 15 minutes. So stay with us for that.
It's also been a busy second day in Poland for Britain's Prince William and his family. They have been visiting a former Nazi concentration camp in
Gdansk. Tens of thousands of people were killed there during the Second World War.
Then it was also the Gdansk (inaudible) for the royal family and a stark contrast they've attended a street party in the central square. The family
will also visit Germany as part of this European trip.
Still to come tonight, many questions about the police shooting of an Australian woman in the United States, but so far no answers at all and
that's a big part of the story.
And later, walking down the street gets a woman detained. We'll see how a series of short videos has created an uproar in Saudi Arabia.
JONES: A grieving father in Australia is asking for the light of justice to shine down on his daughter's death in the United States. Justine
Ruszczyk was shot and killed by a police officer in the state of Minnesota on Saturday night.
The first question anyone would ask is why and her family, fiance and her friends are asking just that. As Ryan Young now reports no one is
RYAN YOUNG, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A family in mourning and demanding answers after a Minneapolis police officer shot and
killed 40-year-old Justine Damond after she called 911 on Saturday night.
DON DAMOND, VICTIM'S FIANCE: We've lost the dearest of people and we are desperate for information piecing together Justine's last moments before
the homicide would be a small comfort as we grieve this tragedy.
YOUNG: Damond, whose legal name is Justine Ruszczyk and was using her fiance's last name called police to report a possible sexual assault taking
place in an alley near her home.
Officer Mohammed Noor (ph) was one of the two officers who responded to the scene. At some point, Noor fired his weapon shooting Damond once in the
abdomen, killing her.
The two officers were in body cameras, but they were not turned on. Police have given no explanation about why the shooting occurred or why there are
no recordings, only saying that they are investigating.
BETSY HODGES, MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR: I am heartsick and deeply disturbed. I have a lot of questions about why the body cameras weren't on. Questions
that I hope and anticipate will be answered in the next few days.
YOUNG: Officer Noor extended his condolences, releasing a statement through his attorney, writing in part, "The current environment for police
is difficult, but Officer Noor accepts this is part of his calling. We would like to say more and will in the future."
Damond is an Australian native who moved to Minneapolis to be with her fiance. They were due to marry next month.
DAMOND: The death of Justine is a loss to everyone who knew her. She touched so many people.
YOUNG: Damond worked as a yoga instructor and life coach. Her family describes her as a kind and funny person. Neighbors gathering to pay
tribute to Damond as her family in Sydney pressed authorities for an explanation.
JULIA REED, FAMILY FRIEND: We are trying to come to terms with this tragedy and to understand why this has happened.
JONES: Ryan Young reporting there for us. So let's find out what is happening in Minneapolis right now. Scott McLean is covering the story.
He joins us now live. Scott, it's such a heartbreaking story. So many questions for the family and the friends. Are they any answers yet?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, answers in Minneapolis are few and far between at this point, Hannah. Let me give you a quick scene setter at
what we are looking at here. This is the alleyway where Justine Ruszczyk called 911 for that supposed sexual assault that she believed was taking
And that is where she was ultimately shot by a police officer. You can see here neighbors, friends, have shown up to lay flowers, cards, candles down
to pay respect for Justine -- to Justine Ruszczyk.
As you heard in Ryan's piece there, she was a yoga instructor. She was a meditation leader and someone that her colleagues said really went through
life with this message of love and nonviolence, which makes this whole situation really tough to wrap your head around.
Of course, the impact of her death is not only being felt here but also in Australia. This is what her father told reporters from Sydney.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN RUSZCZYK, JUSTINE RUSZCZYK'S FATHER: We thought yesterday was our worst nightmare, but we awoke to the ugly truth and it hurts even more.
Justine, our daughter, was so special to us and to so many others.
We went down to (inaudible) this morning and saw the blackness change to white. Justine was a beacon to all of us. We only ask that the light of
justice shine down on the circumstance of her death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCLEAN: Ruszczyk's family in Australia, her fiance here in Minnesota, and this community, they are looking for answers, but they may not come
quickly, Hannah, according to the county attorney. This full investigation may take two to four months.
But we are promised more information once the state agency that's investigating this death interviews both the police officers that are
involved as far as we know at this point that has not happened yet, though.
JONES: And this crime has gotten even more complicated seemingly because the police officers who actually shot her, they weren't wearing body cams,
which is really routine now for officers in the states.
[11:25:12]MCLEAN: It has been routine for the Minneapolis Police Department for the last year or so. This came out of the death, the
shooting death of Philando Castile at the hands of a Minneapolis police officer and we went through the policy.
We were directed for that policy from the police spokesperson and that policy states that police should turn on those cameras, activate those
cameras, prior to any use of force, and if they can't do it prior to, they should turn them on as soon as it is reasonably possible to afterward.
And even if they had inactivated them afterward, Hannah, we might have some sense of what happened because they actually have a pre-report feature that
records a little bit prior to those cameras being activated. Obviously that did not happen.
The local ACLU chapter it's saying those two officers they violated police policy and they've thwarted the public's right to know what happened here.
JONES: Scott McLean, we appreciate it. Scott is reporting there live from Minneapolis. Thank you.
Now a young woman who did something perfectly normal in many parts of the world has sparked controversy in Saudi Arabia. Video posted on social
media show her walking around in a mini-skirt. She has now been detained and questioned by police and her case is in the hands of prosecutors.
Police say the woman told them the videos were published by an account attributed to her, but without her knowledge. Now Saudi Arabia adheres to
a strict interpretation of Islamic law and women are expected to wear loose fitting clothing and to cover their hair in public.
Still to come on the WORLD RIGHT NOW, Theresa May was fond of saying Brexit means Brexit, but now some people are saying Brexit may not even happen.
I'll speak to (inaudible), a former member of the British cabinet.
Plus, a massive setback for the Republican Party and for President Trump. We are talking health care and more with a Republican congressman next.
JONES: Welcome back. Now it's a day few people here in the U.K. will forget, June 23rd, 2016, Britain stunned the world by voting to leave the
European Union. The 13 months since have seen politics turned on its head, a new prime minister, a shock election result, and the beginning of
negotiations clouded by uncertainty.
And it is that uncertainty that has led to a few senior figures to speculate that Brexit may not even happen at all. Former Prime Minister
(inaudible) went as far as to say it is, quote, "Absolutely necessary that it doesn't happen."
Another senior figure making similar overturns is (inaudible), a former business secretary in David Cameron's coalition government. He is also a
lawmaker with the liberal Democrat Party, soon to be the leader of the Liberal Democrats. Welcome, (inaudible). Thank you very much for joining
[15:30:00] HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN ANCHOR: - necessary that it doesn't happen.
Well, another senior figure making similar overturns is Sir Vince Cable, a former business secretary in David Cameron's coalition government. He's
also a lawmaker with the Liberal Democrats Party, soon to be the leader of the Democrats.
Welcome, Sir Vince.
SIR VINCENT CABLE, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS, UNITED KINGDOM: Thank you.
VAUGHAN JONES: Thank you very much for joining us. There has been so much wrangling at home in this country ever since Article 50 was triggered back
in March. Of course, ever since that June referendum as well.
Some suggestions now in the press, there is an appetite, perhaps, for a second referendum. In your view, is Brexit definitely going to happen?
CABLE: No, it's not definitely going to happen. I don't anybody of us know, but it's -- the momentum which was very clearly there when Article 50
was passed is gone. The election has changed the chemistry of the country.
I think what we see happening is that the government is finding it very difficult to make any headway. They're disorganized, internally disunited,
appear not to have anticipated many of the difficulties involved in a kind of hard Brexit, leaving the customs union and single market.
And all of that is now swirling around the government, creating an impression that this U.K. is incompetent. And by comparison, the European
Union is pretty firm, very clear what it wants, well organized, well prepared.
And it's becoming embarrassing, to be frank. And I think some of us are forming the view that this may not never happen because of the difficulties
on the British side of actually pushing it through.
VAUGHAN JONES: No one wants to patronize the leave voters, people who voted the European Union, but I wonder whether you think that many leave
voters might now feel that they were conned, that it simply wasn't explained to them in enough detail how complicated the process would be to
get out, this divorce process.
CABLE: Well, I don't want to disrespect the people who voted to leave, and I don't want to rerun the last referendum. I certainly do think that at
the end of the process, when we see whether there is a deal and whether it's a good deal or when there's no deal, that the public should have
another look at this. And I think public opinion is moving in that direction.
But it's certainly things which I think, you know, the government itself didn't realize. If you take one fairly small example that's preoccupied
Parliament in the last week is the future of the Euratom, an important agency that deals with nuclear technology and involves all kinds of things
like cancer treatment isotopes. Nobody had appreciated that if we left the European Union, we leave Euratom and effectively cripple it as an
You multiply that by a hundred times, and you get some sense of what we're now going through. Civil aviation is going to be plunged into complete
chaos unless there's some very rapid simplification.
VAUGHAN JONES: Well, we've got 20 months until it was supposed to be out. Do you think it's inevitable now that there has to be some sort of
transitional period, perhaps even not just for a couple of months but for a couple of years in order to settle this?
CABLE: Well, the sensible people in the government and people at the Chancellor are arguing for a transitional period. The head banger element
-- and there are quite a lot of them in the Cabinet -- are saying we don't care. You know, we want out, we can crash out. I doesn't matter.
Consequences don't matter.
VAUGHAN JONES: Head bangers being David Davis, the Brexit Secretary?
CABLE: Well, he is actually -- like Paris and the other hardline Brexiteers quite say, people like Boris Johnson, Michael Joe, these are the
kind of really irresponsible element in the government, and they're arguing for, you know, a revolution resolution. Let's just crash out and hope for
And I think the public, a lot of them, including many people who voted to leave, I suspect will become very, very seriously concerned about the way
this is now being approached.
VAUGHAN JONES: Your predecessor as leader of the Liberal Democrat Party has promised to sort of cause hell for Theresa May. You are taking a
different approach. I understand you wanted a constructive opposition. Is there a scope for some sort of cross-party committee to deal with Brexit,
to negotiate on Brexit?
CABLE: Well, there already are a lot of cross-party initiatives. The government is at least claiming to be reaching out to the opposition
parties, and I certainly would be up to talking to them and with the Labour Party, the Nationalists.
There are also a lot of informal groups. A couple of weeks ago, there was a significant rebellion by a lot of Labour backbenchers. We supported
them. The Nationalists did. I think the conservative rebels are keeping their heads down.
But I think when the Parliament comes back in September or October, the real resistance will emerge, and it will be strong.
VAUGHAN JONES: There's so much reported infighting now within the government itself. Do you think that, in the aftermath of the shocking
election results as well and that loss of the majority that Theresa May once had, that a weaker government in Britain means that our hand is weaker
now when we go into these negotiations with our counterparts in Brussels?
CABLE: Well, it doesn't have to be, but the --
VAUGHAN JONES: But is that the reality we're facing?
CABLE: The authority of the Prime Minister is weakened. You sense that -- it just isn't at a political level. I talked to a lot of civil servants
who are just in complete despair about the lack of direction, the lack of clarity, the lack of preparation.
I mean, these are the things that are missing. So the fact that Theresa May is politically weak doesn't help in many ways, but I think it's a much
deeper problem. The whole Brexit project was almost certainly flawed from the start.
[15:35:06] VAUGHAN JONES: But you think it will happen, that perhaps it will be a hard Brexit?
CABLE: I would say it's probably now 50-50. We --
VAUGHAN JONES: Fifty-50?
CABLE: Fifty-50, I think it may never happen. The other possibility, the other alternative, is that the Labour Party, despite its supposed
ideological difference with the government, actually works as a kind of grand coalition to push the hard Brexit through.
It could happen. That's happening behind the scene. So those are the two alternatives. And neither of them are very appetizing.
VAUGHAN JONES: We thank you very much for joining us on the program tonight. Sir Vince Cable, thank you.
CABLE: Thank you.
VAUGHAN JONES: Now, still ahead on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. A closer look at the disarray in the Republican Party. Donald Trump's health bill is dead
in the water. I'll speak to a Republican congressman next.
VAUGHAN JONES: Let's return now to our top story. President Trump says he has a new plan to deal with the American healthcare crisis. Just let
Clearly, he is not taking any responsibility for the Republican's failure to come up with a workable replacement for ObamaCare and says he won't own
it. So what happens now?
Well, three Republican Senators say they'll oppose any effort to repeal ObamaCare without a replacement. Senator Shelley Moore Capito of West
Virginia released a statement saying she didn't, quote, come to Washington to hurt people.
For months, I have expressed reservations about the direction of the bill to repeal and replace ObamaCare. I have serious concerns about how we
continue to provide affordable care to those who have benefitted from West Virginia's decision to expand Medicaid, especially in light of the growing
So we that the President is distancing himself from the healthcare debacle. Let's get perspective now from a supporter of the President. CNN's
Political Commentator Jeffrey Lord joins me now via Skype from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
Jeffrey, great to see you. President --
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hello, Hannah.
VAUGHAN JONES: Hello. President Trump says just let ObamaCare fail, but at what cost? And I don't mean cost just financially. I mean, human cost,
the people who have health insurance in place right now who will be terrified tonight that that's just going to fall away.
LORD: Well, there's already a problem with it. People are already losing their healthcare or they've got premiums that are so high that they can't
afford to use it.
We've had a number of insurance companies pull out of one state after another, basically leaving some states almost totally uncovered, so the
system is crashing on itself. And I think what the President is doing here is letting it go until there is sufficient incentive in the Congress to fix
VAUGHAN JONES: But do -- I suppose my question is, do lawmakers not have a duty to bump up, bolster ObamaCare in the short term just so that there is
an -- a health insurance policy, a system in place in the short term until they can fully repeal and then replace what they don't like?
LORD: Right. Well, they don't want to do that. I mean, this -- today is a perfect example of this.
[15:40:01] If they had just passed this, there was a two-year waiting period in there where they would have been able to get this fixed. They
chose not to do this, not to vote on this, not to -- you know, not to support. So they've already turned that down, in essence.
VAUGHAN JONES: How is this White House, though, going to get on message? Not just with healthcare. I mean with Russia, with everything else, with -
- I mean, it's supposed to be a themed week that we're talking about. We're supposed to be talking that right now, Jeffrey, with its "Made in
VAUGHAN JONES: We talked about it for about five minutes yesterday, and then suddenly this all blew up on healthcare. So what does the White House
have to do? I mean, you're a Trump supporter. What do you want to see from the White House?
LORD: Well, move on to tax reform, which is the next big item on the agenda and focus on that. And just --
VAUGHAN JONES: Just beat healthcare?
LORD: And -- yes. I mean, it's -- Congress has made it abundantly clear that they are not going to do anything, so -- I mean, what you have to do
here is put the pressure on the Congress. And the way to do that is to let the system fold and members of Congress will be sufficiently motivated to
do something. At the moment, they are not.
VAUGHAN JONES: Well, we wait to see whether they indeed will be, if ObamaCare is just let loose to fail as the President says he wants to
happen. Jeffrey Lord, great --
LORD: I mean, Hannah, I just -- just one other --
VAUGHAN JONES: OK, go ahead.
LORD: One other quick thing. One other quick thing. We were promised -- the American people were promised, when this was passed, that this was the
panacea. This was the be-all and end-all of healthcare.
Well, self-evidently, that just isn't so. Basically, they screwed up the entire American healthcare system, so we've got to go from there.
VAUGHAN JONES: OK. OK. Jeffrey Lord, thanks so much. Great to speak to you.
LORD: Thanks, Hannah.
VAUGHAN JONES: Let's hear now from a Republican lawmaker. Leonard Lance of New Jersey joins me now from the U.S. capital.
Congressman, thank you very much for joining us on the program.
REP. LEONARD LANCE (R), NEW JERSEY: Thank you.
VAUGHAN JONES: Republicans have been talking about repealing and replacing ObamaCare for seven years now. That is not going to happen, as we
understand it, today. What are your feelings and how does that sit with you and the people that you represent this Tuesday?
LANCE: I did not vote for the House bill. It passed in the House, but, of course, did not proceed in the Senate of the United States.
And I think it's now important for our Democratic colleagues here on Capitol Hill in Washington to come to the table so that we can reform the
system. It certainly needs reform.
There are millions of Americans who are paying higher premiums and hardworking Americans who were promised lower premiums by President Obama.
And it seems to me that we have an obligation to work together in a bipartisan capacity to improve the system.
VAUGHAN JONES: President Trump has blamed the failure on this bill, the failure that we saw last night, on four -- just four -- Republicans. I'm
wondering, are you among a wider Republican branch perhaps who are not only against this bill but perhaps now moving further towards being against this
LANCE: No. I want to work with President Trump. He is President of the United States, and I can understand his frustration. Legislation is
difficult to achieve, and healthcare reform is a very complicated subject.
But I want to work with Democratic colleagues, who I hope will come to the table, because I think it's important to the American people that we
improve the system. And right now, the system definitely needs significant improvement.
VAUGHAN JONES: It certainly is important to the American people. Just the latest poll that we can perhaps bring to our viewers now -- this is from
Bloomberg -- is saying that 35 percent of Americans that they polled said that they now prioritize healthcare on the legislative agenda. That is the
most important thing for them over employment, terrorism, and all the rest as well.
What do you say then to your -- the people that you represent, knowing that it could be another couple of years? It could be even more than that of
having to live with ObamaCare, waiting until it potentially fails. And there doesn't seem to be any sign of draining of the swamp or at least of
any kind of bipartisan approach in Congress.
LANCE: I think there is a good deal of efforts regarding a bipartisan moving forward, and I've already been in discussions in that regard. And I
think we have to move forward in a bipartisan capacity. Healthcare reform is high on the agenda.
I hope we also discuss this year tax reform. That is important to the American people. But we should be continuing to work on the health care
I am committed to doing that. Republican colleagues of mine are committed to doing that. And I hope Democratic colleagues will be as well.
VAUGHAN JONES: Congressman, six months into President Trump's administration, and there have been no legislative wins so far. How
concerned are you and are your colleagues about the President's personal low approval rating and what that means for you when you go forward to
trying to tackle tax reform and the like?
[15:44:56] LANCE: I think there have been some victories.
For example, there has been a new justice appointed to the Supreme Court, Justice Gorsuch. That did not come before us in the House of
Representatives, but it did on the Senate of the United States. We've had some major bill last week on the defense of this country, the National
Defense Authorization Act.
And so we are passing bills that are important to the American people, but I certainly agree with you that we have to continue to work on healthcare
and on other issues like tax reform.
VAUGHAN JONES: With all of these legislative measures on the agenda that are not going through at the moment, the one big cloud over all of this at
the moment is Russia and the fact that this White House, this administration, doesn't seem to have been transparent, let's say, on its
dealings with Russia or its meetings or its naivety, perhaps, when it comes to Russia. Your thoughts, Sir, on that?
LANCE: I hope that Donald Trump, Jr. and Paul Manafort come before the Congress in open sessions in the committee structure we have here in
Washington. I think that's important.
And certainly, I favor strong sanctions against Russia, and that is the overwhelming view of the Congress of the United States in both the House
and the Senate. The Senate has passed a strong sanctions bill regarding Russia and I hope that we vote on it here in the House of Representatives
as soon as possible.
And certainly, I want to get to the bottom of that matter. And a Special Counsel, Mr. Mueller, has been appointed, and I'm sure that he will examine
the situation completely.
VAUGHAN JONES: Should Jared Kushner, the President's son-in-law, should he have full security clearance or should that be revoked now?
LANCE: I don't favor it being revoked. I was not one of those, last autumn, who suggested that Secretary Clinton not continue to get classified
briefings even though there was the e-mail controversy. That was not my view last autumn regarding Secretary Clinton, and it's not my view today
regarding Jared Kushner.
VAUGHAN JONES: Congressman Leonard Lance, we really appreciate you talking to us on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Thank you, Sir.
LANCE: Thank you very much.
VAUGHAN JONES: Coming up on the program, a Murdoch newspaper sends a message to President Trump that's not exactly positive. We'll discuss
what's behind the change in tune.
VAUGHAN JONES: The next generation of solar power is upon us. Scientists in Germany have built the world's largest artificial sun. Now, they're
trying to harness the intense heat to make solar fuel. Take a look at this.
PROF. BERNARD HOFFSCHMIDT, RESEARCH DIRECTOR, GERMAN AEROSPACE CENTER: SynLight is, by far, the largest artificial sun in development. It's a
research facility. An array of 149 lamps.
Together, they produce an amount of light which corresponds to 100,000 household bulbs. That's 10,000 times more powerful than natural sunlight.
The bulb inside our modules is a commercial cinema bulb. It consists of two massive electrodes of tungsten.
The power of our lights can be focused to a spot of a diameter of 15 centimeter and relates to a temperature more than 3,000 degrees.
[15:50:10] We used about 15 lamps, and their concentrated light was able to burn a hole into this massive 20-millimeter thick aluminum plate. With the
power of 149 of these lamps, I guess, we would be able to evaporate this plate in a few minutes.
Our vision, our dream is to generate fuels from the SynLight by using temperature only. We want to split water into oxygen and hydrogen.
Hydrogen is called like the golden egg of any fuel. It has higher density of energy of all chemicals. We could use the hydrogen to create synthetic
fuels for aeroplanes.
I'm extremely proud. It's my baby, and I have the opportunity to build it. We hope it will be the next generation of solar power. We hope to be ready
in 10 years for industrial application.
VAUGHAN JONES: Shares of Netflix have soared to an all-time high on Wall Street. That's after the entertainment company said it now has more than
100 million users. A majority of new subscribers came from outside the United States, making Netflix bigger internationally than it is
domestically for the very first time.
Now, it's a power couple that might be going through something of a rough patch. U.S. President Donald Trump is, we understand, in regular contact
with media mogul, Rupert Murdoch. His publications are usually sympathetic towards the U.S. President, but Murdoch's "Wall Street Journal" has run an
editorial this Tuesday that bucks that trend.
Titled "The Trumps and the Truth," it says -- the political realities in Washington will destroy Mr. Trump, his family, and their business
reputation unless they change their strategy towards the Russia probe.
Interesting stuff. Well, our Senior Media Correspondent Brian Stelter joins me now live from New York.
Brian, great to see you.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: You too.
VAUGHAN JONES: The "Wall Street Journal" editorial also refers to radical transparency that's needed from the White House at the moment. Is Rupert
sending Donald a message, and if so, what is it?
STELTER: It seems like that is exactly what Rupert Murdoch is doing, using his newspapers and maybe to some degree, his powerful television network,
Fox News, in order to communicate with President Trump.
You and I both know Rupert Murdoch has a long history of this, going back decades. He's used his newspapers in order to wield political influence,
both in the United Kingdom and the United States.
Right now, it's so intriguing because we know Murdoch and Trump talk quite frequently by phone. However, at the same time, they're actually
communicating, Murdoch seems to be sending messages through his newspapers.
If you look at the "New York Post" recently, there was an editorial that says, stop tweeting -- just stop tweeting, Mr. President.
Then there was an editorial last week saying that Donald Trump, Jr. is an idiot, calling him criminally stupid for his conduct involving that meeting
with the Russian lawyer.
And now, this "Wall Street Journal" editorial that's especially interesting, "The Truth and Trumps" -- "Trumps and the Truth," bringing up
this issue of transparency, almost demanding the Trump come fully clean about that Russian lawyer meeting last year.
VAUGHAN JONES: They're obviously friends, I suppose. They speak regularly on the phone. But their relationship, I mean, is it a friendly
relationship, or is it a bit of a power battle?
Of course, Donald Trump is the leader of the free world, but Rupert Murdoch has considerable power as well. Who has the most sway in this
STELTER: It's definitely a mutually beneficial relationship. MPR has caught an alliance of mutual interests and it's evolved over the years.
You know, earlier, in the primary season when Trump was one of 17 candidates in the Republican field, Rupert Murdoch was harshly critical of
Trump. But eventually, Murdoch fell behind Trump, expressed support for him. Certainly, Fox News is a reliable source of pro-Trump messages kind
of morning, noon, and night. There's only a couple exceptions to that rule on Fox.
But the newspapers, Murdoch's papers, do seem to be taking a different tone. Perhaps Murdoch is frustrated with some of President Trump's
behavior, some of his conduct.
And that's notable because, you know, it's one thing for liberal op-ed writers or liberal leaning newspapers or even mainstream anchors to be
expressing concern about the President. It's different to have a conservative media mogul like Murdoch speaking up.
VAUGHAN JONES: And is it effectively like a veiled threat? He's sort of saying if -- Rupert Murdoch is saying if you keep up with this fake news
line, this fake news line of attack, you know, eventually, you are going to only appeal to your base, and you're not going to right wing media with
you. They are kind of saying keep it up, and we'll pull the plug.
[15:55:07] STELTER: Yes. The "Journal" seems to be saying very bluntly to the President and his aides, this is not working, the fake news attack, for
example. It only appeals to the people that voted into office. It is not going to sway anybody else except for your base.
So we've seen that message from the "Journal." The editorial also said, hey, go ahead, release part of your taxes that involve Russia. Be, as the
papers said, radically transparent with the public. That's the only way to stop the damage that continues to add up against the Trump presidency.
And the "Journal" has been critical before but this was a change in the past day or so. It seems to be much more dramatic. And the "Journal" is
Murdoch's most prestigious paper in the United States so what it says matters a lot to the President.
VAUGHAN JONES: And, Brian, just briefly, how important is it for Donald Trump and his administration to get on message?
STELTER: This administration, at the sixth month mark, does not have a message at all, except that it has come in to a china shop like a bull,
broken a lot of things, and left a lot of, you know, glass and debris on the floor.
Maybe the next six months can be more of a cleanup operation. But so far, I can't really tell you there is a message at all from this administration.
VAUGHAN JONES: Brian, always good to speak to you. Brian Stelter there. Thank you.
VAUGHAN JONES: And now, finally, Britain is cracking down on sexist advertising. An industry watchdog wants to ban ads that pander to gender
Here's an example. It's a commercial for baby formula that was criticized for negative stereotyping. A girl growing up to become a ballerina, while
boys get to be scientists or mountaineers.
Well, the watchdog's representative, Craig Jones, told CNN this type of advertising is harmful to children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRAIG JONES, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS, ADVERTISING STANDARDS AUTHORITY: The ones that we think are particularly problematic and we're going to be
looking out for from next year include, for example, a woman -- let's say a family is shown to be trashing the house and creating a mess. And the
mother figure, the woman, has sole responsibility for cleaning it up.
Another example is a man trying and failing to do simple household or parental tasks. We -- what we discovered is the message that sends to
young children in particular is that this is all they are cut out for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUGHAN JONES: Cracking down on sexist advertising here in Britain. Well, this has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Lots of information there about Trump
on healthcare, on ObamaCare, what it all means.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is coming up next. Thanks so much for your company.
[16:00:01] ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: That deafening round of applause, really full of energetic round of applause.
Let's take a look and see how the market did. Come over here for a second. Really not a sliver of green. We were suddenly in the red pretty much all
day, ending the day down 52 points.