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O.J. Simpson Parole Hearing. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 20, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: But I can tell you, Nevada is a very, very well-defined system for deciding whether or not a parolee could be high risk or low risk.

And in this case, it's true. O.J. Simpson scores pretty well in factors like his age. Older people, it's shown, do not commit as many crimes. He's participated in prison. He's stayed out of trouble. Those are good for him.

On the other hand, he still committed, what is considered in Nevada, a high and possibly even the highest level of severity of crime, as defined by the parole board. So, with that factor, that's what makes this a 50-50 sort of a --

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Danny, I'm so sorry to interrupt you but this is underway so we want to listen in there to this parole board.

CONNIE BISBEE, COMMISSIONER, NEVADA BOARD OF PAROLE (live): Who do we have here, guys?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- Officer Bautista. Level (ph) of correctional Caseworker LaFleur (ph).

BISBEE: OK, gentlemen. What we're going to be doing this morning is after the two of you leave the area and back to where you're going to be, I'm going to have -- Officer Bautista, I'm going to have you bring Mr. Simpson in. And we will go from there.

The camera angle that you've got is perfect. If you'll keep your camera right there, that'll allow us to see the people we're supposed to be seeing.

And Caseworker LaFleur, I will refer to you, if you'll have your program up and your computer system up, there are some questions I'm going to be asking you to confirm for us. So, if you'll be ready to do that, I would appreciate that.

So, gentlemen, if you'll -- if you'll go to your spots for me and bring Mr. Simpson in. And I believe he has representation with him. If you'll bring them to the table, I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

BISBEE: Good morning. Have a seat, please.

ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON: Thank you.

BISBEE: And you are Orenthal James Simpson?

SIMPSON: Correct.

BISBEE: And Mr. Simpson, will you, please, give me your NDOC number for the record?

SIMPSON: 1027-8200.

BISBEE: Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Simpson. And you're represented by whom this morning?

SIMPSON: Mr. Malcolm LaVergne, my attorney.

BISBEE: OK, and welcome, Mr. Lavergne.

Mr. Simpson, the first thing I'm put on the record, the notice of this hearing and advise you rights and ask you if you will recognize your signature for me, please.

SIMPSON: Yes. I believe -- yes.

BISBEE: OK, thank you. Having recognized your signature, I'll declare for the record that you've been properly noticed and we'll go forward.

I am chairman Bisbee. With me this morning to the right is Commissioner Andal (ph). To my left is Commissioner Jackson. And then, to her left is Commissioner Corda. We're seeing you this morning --

SIMPSON: Sorry.

BISBEE: -- on an aggravated case sentence and that is cases number C237890, count nine assault with a deadly weapon; C237890 count six use of deadly weapon enhancement; C237890 count 10 assault with a deadly weapon; C237890, count five use of a deadly weapon enhancement; C237890 count eight use of a deadly weapon enhancement; C237890 count seven use of a deadly weapon enhancement.

And one of the things I want you to make -- to make you aware, those enhancements include both to the kidnapping and the robbery charges. Even though they're not necessarily the way I've said it, make that clear. And Caseworker LaFleur, I have a parole eligibility date of October 1, 2017, with a current expiration September 29, 2022. Is that correct?

LAFLEUR: That is correct. I have a parole eligibility date of October 1, 2017 and an expiration date of September 29, 2022.

[13:05:06] BISBEE: Now, at this point, Caseworker LaFleur, is there anything that would change that parole eligibility date?

LAFLEUR: That parole eligible date is not going to change.

BISBEE: OK, thank you very much.

Mr. Simpson, you are getting the same hearing that everyone else gets. I want to make that clear from the -- from the get go. However, since we have a --

O.J. OK, sure.

BISBEE: -- crowd of people here that have not taken advantage of our public meetings before in order to attend a hearing, some of the things I'm going to say are going to get a little bit lengthy. So, you will understand everything, but it will be new information for some other folks. So, just wanted to let you know that from the get go. So, I will tell you --

SIMPSON: Thank you, ma'am.

BISBEE: So, I will tell you, as appointed members of the Nevada Board of Parole Commissioners, we have an ethical duty to consider each inmate for parole in a fair and consistent manner. Like other parole boards across the country, our responsibilities include meeting to balance prisoner rehabilitation with public safety, as well as taking action that considers the interests of justice. So, that's what we're doing here this morning.

We have adopted a guideline to assist us in making consistent decisions. We apply the elements and factors of our guideline to each inmate considered for parole. A component of the guideline is our risk assessment.

The board uses a scientifically developed validated risk assessment and part of its parole guideline. The risk assessment helps us determine which inmates are more or less likely to return to prison if we release them on parole.

Using a risk assessment is not unique to Nevada, as a number of other state parole boards also use them. We have revalidated our assessment three separate times in the past 14 years, and it has consistently shown to the predictive.

Using this risk assessment has significantly improved our overall performance. I'm going to go over each of those items with the -- of the risk assessment with you at this time.

And just as an aside, this risk assessment is being revalidated even now as we speak by the JFA Institute. So, it's pretty darn predictive is bottom line here.

So, my first question for you, Mr. Simpson, were you arrested for the first time at the age of 24 or older?

SIMPSON: I was arrested for the -- I was arrested for the first time, I think, at the age of 46 or 47. BISBEE: OK. So, you were over the age of 24?

SIMPSON: Yes. Yes, ma'am.

BISBEE: OK. And am I correct that you have never been on parole or probation before, therefore you have never had a parole or probation revocation?

SIMPSON: That is correct. Right.

BISBEE: OK. And I have that you are -- were unemployed at the time of this offense because you were in retirement status?

SIMPSON: That's correct. Yes. Yes.

BISBEE: OK. Now, this is a property conviction. It's -- we're currently hearing you on the robberies and the enhancements, and so you have been assessed as a property offender.

Now, we've also assessed you as having a substance abuse problem. I'll tell you why that is. You have indicated also in the past that alcohol had a big factor in this particular crime and the fact that you have spent the last almost nine years in prison because of an alcohol-related incident would be indicative of having some sort of a -- at least temporary substance abuse problem.

So, we have scored you with having some history there. We have you as male. And we have that you are currently -- well, very recently turned 90 years old. Ninety, I'm sorry about that. You look great. How about we take two decades off and call you 70. OK.

SIMPSON: Yes.

BISBEE: We don't have you as having any gang affiliation nor has the NDOC found you to have any gang involvement. We note you have completed one of the vocational trainings in having completed the computer application course. We note that you have not had any disciplinaries either current or pending. And that you're currently medium level there at Lovelock Correctional Center. Would you say that all of those items are correct, sir?

SIMPSON: Yes, ma'am.

BISBEE: OK. You do score out -- your rick score scores you in a low risk. However, because of your particular offense, that severity is at the highest. When we combine your risk score along with your offense severity, our guideline recommendations are that we consider factors.

Now, what consider factors means is we consider everything, in terms of whether or not you're a risk to re-offend and return to our criminal justice system.

[13:10:04] And so, what we do, at this point, when we're looking at the risk score, we also look at what are called aggravating and mitigating factors. Now, aggravating and mitigating factors don't include everything in the world. They're very specific as to what we consider under those items also.

So, under the aggravating and mitigating factors, in your particular case, we have mitigating or positive things for considering you for parole is the fact that you've been disciplinary-free throughout your entire period of incarceration. You don't have any prior conviction history. You have community and family support. You have what appears to be stable release plans. You have participated in programming, some rather significant programming.

On the aggravating factors and the only thing that fits under our aggravating characteristics, in terms of risk in your situation, is that at the time of this offense, your victims indicated that they were in fear for their safety, having been threatened with a gun during the commission of a crime.

So, those are the risk, aggravating, mitigating things we are considering. That's your overall risk score. Right now, I'm going to stop talking for a while and ask the members of the panel if they might have any questions of you.

TONY CORDA, COMMISSIONER, NEVADA BOARD OF PAROLE: Yes. Mr. Simpson, you have lived most of your life in the public spotlight, yet you go into a hotel room in Las Vegas, bring along four other men with you. Two of them are armed. And robbed the two victims of property. What were you thinking?

SIMPSON: Well, I'm -- this might be a little long. I don't -- I'll try to be brief with it. I had been contacted by a man named Reesio (ph). He had contacted me over a period of time, told me that there was some guys that was trying to get him to fence my property, and he thought I should come and get it.

Well, I kind of blew him off because I'm really not interested in football property. I don't collect memorabilia, only my own personal items. He was pretty persistent in calling me. And, finally, I told him, well, see if you can get pictures of what they have.

He sent me some pictures. And what I saw was my family, my mother's albums, pictures of my kids growing up, certificates of accomplishments of mine, pictures of what I call significant famous people, letters of myself. So, I told him I would really like to get this stuff.

So, after a period of time, through what he described in court as a perfect storm, we all ended up in Las Vegas. You know? I was there for a wedding, and he told me that the property was there and would I like to try to get the property? I said, of course, I would like to get the property.

He told me the names of what he thought were the people in the room, and I realized these are friends of mine. You know? Actually, guys who helped me move. Helped me move and store some of this stuff, right?

So, on the day of this incident, he came to my hotel to talk about how this would take place. I told him I met with a lawyer last night, and my sister and my daughter and some other friends, and discussed it. I pointed out another lawyer that was at the pool side as a part of this wedding party that was going on.

I said I discussed it with him and they told me that I can't do this, if we're going to their home or even to their storage. O.J., you cannot go in there. Because if they ask you to leave, you got to leave. I said, Reesio, you got to get them to bring it to a public place. He said, well, let me see what I can do.

All of this has been testified to so I'm not just going. You know? He called me and told me he told them to bring it to his room and he's going to have it brought to his hotel and would I come and get it? I said, of course, I'll come and get it. He says there's a lot of stuff, O.J. You better bring some friends.

Well, I had a couple of friends there at the wedding that was going to go with me. He also said you should bring security. I said, well, I know these guys. I don't think I need any security. I mean, it turns out that one of the guys, Bruce here (ph) -- I didn't know it was him. I thought it was another guy named Mike, a friend of his, and ex- partner of his. But I said, I don't need any security.

Well, later that day, when they arrived at his hotel and spread out my property, he called and he said, they're here. You come here. I'll meet you in the lobby. And you need security, O.J.

[13:15:13] This guy - Beardsley, a big guy, and a little - I think he's a little weird. You know? You know, I think anybody that knows him knows he's a little different. I still told him, this guy is not dangerous, man, but he says, man, bring some security.

During the day when he was there, he met people from the wedding, and one guy, McClinton, said he did security in Las Vegas. And it would help his business if he could have me as a client. I told him I didn't need him. But after he insisted that I bring security, I said, I can use your help.

I went to the hotel. I met Mr. Riccio in the lobby. The two guys, they also met us there, there was a big mistake, obviously. I realize that. Quite soon after this. And Mr. Riccio led us to his room, put the key in the door and let us in. I know I've seen the last two or three days the media reporting we broke into the room, but we didn't break into any room. Mr. Riccio brought us into that room.

When I came into the room I noticed spread out everywhere was my personal property, you know? The only thing I saw that was on display that wasn't mine was some baseballs, and I made it clear to everybody, those are not mine. All I want is my property, and I think there's a tape of it. You hear me on at least three or four occasions saying, I just want my property.

Go forward and try to make this a little quicker. At some point we started - when we were leaving the room - actually, I was being pushed out of the room by the security guys because while I was in there and I recognized Bruce was there, I was surprised to see him. As he was testified, I was shocked, really, to see him. Bruce has been a friend of mine. He's traveled with me. And we've done a lot of business together over the years. And he and I said, man, what are you doing here, you know?

He explained to me why he was there and why he had my property there. And I told him, but, geez, you should have told me. I accepted - I understood why. You know, it was an '06, '07, people were losing their homes. A guy owed him money. Couldn't pay him the money. Gave him my property to sell. I told him I understood that but you still should have told me.

We had a chance to talk about this at a later date, and I - he apologized. I accepted his apology. I apologized for these two guys that got - pointed a gun at him. He's traveled with me. He's known me when I've had security. He's known me when the venue has supplied security. And there were times he even had to act as security for me. He knows I would never, ever, direct anybody to point a gun at him or even threaten him. I've never done this in my life.

I want to point out, you mentioned all those gun charges. Bruce and Alfred, they made it clear during the trial that I had no weapon. They didn't feel threatened by me. And from what you said, and they - and that I didn't threaten them. It was the other two security guys that did that.

And I'm not - I haven't made any excuses in the nine years that I've been here, and I'm not trying to make an excuse now. They were there because of me, you know? But in no way, shape or form did I wish them any harm.

And as I was leaving the room, and this is on the tape, too, Bruce said, O.J., hey, man, there's a box that's with that stuff, the Montana prints. Those don't belong to you. Those are mine, man. He told me that because he recognized everything else that I took out of that room was mine, you know, and he also recognized that I wasn't there to steal his stuff, and he knew I would be - return whatever was his, and which I attempted to do. I told him we'd leave it at the desk. I'll send your stuff at the desk.

We didn't know at the time that this security guys, Walter Alexander, had stole his Blackberry, you know, (INAUDIBLE). But the minute I saw that, I made him send it back and he gave some cockamamie story in the trial that - why he didn't take it back.

In any event, I am no danger. I didn't pull a gun on anybody. You know, I never have in my life. I've never been accused of it in my life. Nobody's ever accused me of pulling any weapon on them. And Bruce - Bruce knows that I would never do that. I never have.

I want to also, as a postscript, add that, you know, when I got to Lovelock, the state of California took up the issue of whose property it was. They did an investigation. And they came to the conclusion that it was my property. They turned it over to me. I have it now, you know? So, I mean, it's - it's kind of mind-boggling that they turned over to me property that I'm in jail for, for trying to retrieve, you know? It - it was my property. I wasn't there to steal from anybody. And I would never, ever pull a weapon on anybody. [13:20:14] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) believed that the property was yours?

SIMPSON: It's been ruled legally by the state of California that it was my property and they've given it to me. Given it to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I - my question was, that's why you went into the - to the hotel room because you believed that the property was yours?

SIMPSON: Oh, yes. Yes, sir. I - yes, but, you know, I - whenever he was just telling - when Riccio was calling me just telling me this, I wasn't interested. It wasn't until he got actual pictures of what they supposedly had, and because it was family photos and stuff, that's when I got interested in going there. And I only went there to retrieve my own property.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what were you thinking when the guns were being brandished?

SIMPSON: Well, I didn't see the guns brandished. I didn't see - you say "guns." As I understand it, one guy, who was behind me somewhere, pointed a gun at him. So I never saw him brandish a gun.

When I left there, I called back to the room to ask Bruce, you said that there was some pictures. What do you have? And I asked him, did this Walter Alexander return your cell phone? He told me, no. And he says, O.J., wasn't cool that guy pointed a gun at me. I said, who point a gun at you? He says that - and kind of described who it was.

To be honest, I didn't really believe him at the time. I asked the three guys I was with. They all said they didn't see him do it. I got back to my hotel. We waited for these two security guys to show up. And the minute they drove up, the first thing I said, man, did you pull a gun in that room? And he swore, no, I haven't (ph) - he didn't. And I asked Walter Alexander for the cell phone. And he kind of threw the cell phone to me. But - well, I wasn't aware until - until I was in the car driving back to our hotel that this guy had actually point a gun at him.

Now, earlier in the day, when he had - when he was talking to me trying to get me to let him come - I didn't hire him. He said it was for free and all of that - he did show me - I didn't know this guy, you know? I knew the Alexander guy, but I didn't know this guy. He showed me his license. He showed his CCR. You know, I would assume that the state gives a guy a CCR and stuff, they vetted him.

I should have vetted him. I didn't really need him. I knew these guys weren't dangerous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you know, your version of the offenses differ a little bit about the official records, Mr. Simpson. But moving forward here, considering the fact that what we have on record, weapons were brandished, you were there, property was taken.

SIMPSON: Yes. Oh, I was there. I mean -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the next question is for you -

SIMPSON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think was the impact on your victims?

SIMPSON: Well, I know what the impact was. I mean we've talked about it. I mean, Mr. Beardsley, we had long talks back then. He - he told me that he had tried to call my lawyer. He testified in court that he had called my lawyers and tried to tell them in the months previous that guys had my property and they were trying to sell them, but my lawyer never called him back. He actually testified for me, I'm sure you know, during the trial.

Bruce and I talked, and, you know, Bruce was traumatized by it. Fortunately, as I said, we talked it out. He knew that I would have never condoned what happened. He accepted my apology. And I told him that these guys should be put in jail if they did that. You know, I wasn't going to defend them.

Unfortunately, they got a get out of jail free card when they said O.J. told me. Nothing I could do about that. About that.

But I want to point out that, you know, Bruce - I knew his family. I mean, when his mother was terminally ill, I - I called - she was a fan. I'd call her and sing to her.

The night before or the night of my - the jury's verdict, his son actually called me and tried to give me a heads up on something to do with memorabilia and told me that he and his mother was cheering for me, you know? These - this family knows that I wouldn't wish any harm on these guys ever. These guys are friends of mine and I'd like to think we're friends again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning, Mr. Simpson.

SIMPSON: Good morning, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I conducted your last hearing in 2013 with hearing representative Mr. Robin Bates (ph). Do you recall that hearing?

[13:25:05] SIMPSON: Yes, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. At the time, we asked you what your plan would be if we were to grant you to your consecutive sentence. And you told us that you were going to complete "commitment to change." Have you done that?

SIMPSON: No, I haven't. At one point I couldn't take the course. You know, I took - I took two courses that I guess you guys don't give much credit to. It's called "alternative to violence." I think it's the most important course anybody in this prison can take, because it teaches you how to deal with conflict through conversation. I have been asked many, many times here to mediate conflicts between

individuals and groups. And it gave me so many tools on how to use it that, you know, to try to walk these guys through, you know, not throwing punches at one another.

Also, at one point, a couple of guys came to me and they said, O.J., I understand you're a Baptist. We're Baptists and we have no Baptist service here. Can you help us get a Baptist service here?

I worked with them. We now have an ongoing Baptist service that I as well attended. And I attend it religiously and pun is intended. And I realized in my nine years here that I was a good guy on the street (ph). I'm sure when Bruce - he'll tell you, I was always a good guy. But I could have been a better Christian. And my commitment to change is to be a better Christian.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, thank you.

Well, we do know that you have programmed over your term of incarceration. You have completed "victim empathy," "alternative to violence," both basic and advanced, and "computer application."

I'd like you to tell us a little bit more about "victim empathy" and "alternative to violence" and how it will benefit you in the future?

SIMPSON: Well, as I said, the "alternative to violence" course is - I've always thought I was - I'd been pretty good with people and I've basically have spent a conflict-free life, you know? I'm not a guy that ever got in fights on the street and with the public and everybody. But as I said, they give you a bunch of little tools about how to talk to people instead of fighting, instead of throwing punches. Tools that I've used here that, you know, it's how you talk to people. It's the tone that you use.

The "victim empathy" was, once again, I - I didn't really see that, in this case, I didn't really see that Alfred Beardsley was - ah, was really affected by it all. But Bruce was affected. You know, Bruce was - I saw that he was affected and, as I said, I would have done anything, anything not to the have that happen. If for no - if for no other reason I regret this because he had to have this guy point a gun at him. And he told me, he said, man, the guy put a gun in my face, you know? And I said, I didn't - as I said in the beginning, I didn't believe it, but I know it to be a fact now.

So - you know, and that - that empathy course, it pretty much tells the guys who's all there, it's good to have you talk to your victim and what would you say to him, you know, if you were to see him now and want you to take, you know, responsibility for what you did and to recognize how it affected their lives, as I said. Bruce expressed to me how it affected him, and I - as I told him, I couldn't be more apologetic for going through - for him going through that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. I know that alcohol was a factor in the instant offense. Have you addressed this issue as you stated you would? SIMPSON: Well, you know, it's - I think I made it clear back then,

I've never had an alcohol problem. And if I took that alcohol course, it would have been more, you know, in - for my children, in case they ended up having a problem.

Well, my kids don't have a problem. I don't think anybody's ever accused me of having an alcohol problem or any kind of substance problem. Of course, on that day - I had drinks on that day, but it was a wedding celebration. But I've never had a substance problem at all. So I didn't.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Well you told us in our last hearing that you were going to attend AA, and that's the reason for my question.

SIMPSON: Yes, I know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a factor in the instant office. Hadn't you been drinking that day?

[13:29:33] SIMPSON: Yes. Yes, as I said, we were celebrating a wedding thing. I felt that the "alternative to violence" course and my involvement with the church, I also, as recently, became a - the commissioner of the softball league, 18-team league. My primary - my primary responsibility was rules enforcement and, you know, player deportment (ph). You know, guys, it's hot. The guys play. They argue. My job is that they get surely with one another, to remove them from the game. And if it goes beyond that, they go to Coach Fraley (ph) and have them suspended. I've never --