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Manafort Subpoenaed By Senate; Kushner Testifies; GOP Senators Meet; McCain Returns; Conaway and Schiff Speak About Kushner Testifying; Kushner has House Intel Meeting; Trump Calls Sessions Weak. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 25, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 9:30 in Kabul, Afghanistan. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: Right now, Senate Republicans are in their weekly policy lunch. On their plates is the big health care vote today and whether the majority leader, Mitch McConnell, can muster enough votes to get movement on efforts to repeal and replace Obamacare.

President Trump has been putting pressure on Congress to get a health care deal done. We're going to hear from the president around two hours from now. He's holding a joint news conference with the visiting prime minister of Lebanon.

The two leaders will take a limited number of questions to each. We're going to bring that news conference to you live. That's coming up.

The president is also keeping up the heat on his attorney general, Jeff Sessions. A day after tweeting about his, quote, "beleaguered," attorney general, today he's suggesting Sessions is, quote, "very weak."

We're covering on all the angles on these developing stories. Our Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash is up on Capitol Hill. Our Senior White House Correspondent Jeff Zeleny, he's over at the White House. Our Justice Reporter Laura Jarrett is standing by and our Senior Congressional Manu -- Congressional Reporter Manu Raju is up on Capitol Hill, following the second appearance of the White House senior adviser, Jared Kushner.

Let's start over at the White House with the president's new shot, a dramatic shot at the attorney general of the United States, Jeff Sessions. Here's the tweet fired off around 6:00 a.m. this morning. Quote, "Attorney General Jeff Sessions has taken a VERY," all in caps, "weak position on Hillary Clinton crimes. Where are e-mails and DNC server and intel leakers?" Close quote.

Jeff Zeleny is following the relationship between the president and the attorney general. Jeff, is that relationship right now, what are you hearing, beyond repair? JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it certainly seems beyond repair here. I mean, this is something that is really an extraordinary moment. For all the fights this president has engaged in over his time here in office, and certainly before that as a presidential hopeful, this is one that is different in many ways.

Particularly because Jeff Sessions, the attorney general, has been at his side for so long, but it also -- has a deeply -- a level of support from conservatives. From the base. They believe that Jeff Sessions is, in fact, you know, the face of the president's immigration policy.

So, this appears to be something that the president simply cannot get over. This is not a new fight. This is not something that has just developed. This is something that has been simmering and building, you know, for more than four months or so. Ever since he decided to step away and recuse himself from the investigation into all of this.

But the deputy White House press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who will become the press secretary next month, she said on Fox this morning, seemed to suggest that this relationship may be forever broken.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, U.S. WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: Look, I know that he is certainly frustrated and disappointed in the attorney general for recusing himself. But as we've said, I think that's a decision that if the president wants to make, he certainly will. And he's continuing to move forward and focus on other things.

But that frustration certainly hasn't gone away and, you know, I don't think it will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, we'll see how this is all resolved, Wolf. I mean, there is a sense, here at the White House, that the president is either, A, trying to urge the attorney general to quit or, B, make the public argument for why he should resign. Unsure how that will be resolved.

But as you said, he'll be taking questions in two hours here at the White House in that joint press conference. Of course, he'll be asked that very question -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Fascinating. Because, Laura, the attack on the attorney general by the president in this tweet early this morning involved Hillary Clinton. Tell our viewers why that is significant.

LAURA JARRETT, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, Wolf, this is really significant because the president is attacking his own attorney general for not investigating a political rival.

But it's also interesting because the president knew Session's position on this months ago. Back in January, Jeff Sessions was asked, during his confirmation hearing, how he'd approach the Clinton matter, given his role on the Trump -- on Trump's campaign and all the rhetoric. And Sessions made clear that he would step aside.

So, way before this broader recusal in March, from all things related to the presidential campaign. Take a listen to what Sessions said back then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF SESSION, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: With regard to Secretary Clinton and some of the comments I made, I do believe that that could place my objectivity in question. I've given that thought. I believe the proper thing for me to do would be to recuse myself from any questions involving those kind of investigations that involve secretary Clinton and that it will raise during the campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:05:04] JARRETT: So, we're really just in a remarkable limbo period of waiting, at this point, Wolf, to see who makes the first move.

We haven't heard from Sessions today. But last week, he said he would stay on as attorney general as long as it was appropriate to do so. But, obviously, that was before the latest barrage of tweets from the president -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, on a daily basis now, the president seems to be going after the attorney general of the United States.

Laura Jarrett, Jeff Zeleny, guys, thanks very much.

We'll have a lot more on this part of the story coming up. But there's also a tug-of-war over right now over the former Trump campaign chairman, Paul Manafort.

The Senate Judiciary Committee has just issued a subpoena to compel Manafort to appear in a public hearing tomorrow. But we've now learned that Manafort met with staff members of the Senate Intelligence Committee earlier this morning.

All this comes at Jared Kushner makes his second guest appearance up on Capitol Hill. Today's audience, the House Intelligence Committee where he's testifying under oath.

Our Senior Congressional Reporter Manu Raju is joining us now from Capitol Hill. First of all, Manu, what do we know about Manafort's testimony and this subpoena?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, I'm told, by a source familiar with the matter, that when Paul Manafort did meet with staff of the Senate Intelligence Committee this morning. That it was actually a meeting that was focused exclusively on that Trump Tower meeting from June 2016, when Donald Trump Jr., Manafort, as well as Jared Kushner, met with Russians after Donald Trump Jr., of course, has now promised dirt from Russians. Something that was part of what he was told at the time was a Russian government effort to help his father's campaign. Now, the investigators did want to learn more about that specific meeting on the Senate side. And that is what they discussed.

Now, he also agreed to come back at a later date, I'm told, and talk to the full committee, Senate Intelligence Committee, and staff, to discuss other topics related to the Russia investigation.

Now, this comes, Wolf, as the Senate Judiciary Committee now demanding that Paul Manafort appear tomorrow in a public setting. This after an effort to try to talk to him privately fell apart.

Because, according to the Senate Judiciary Committee, Manafort only agreed to give one transcribed interview to a congressional committee and that being the Senate Intelligence Committee.

So, as a result, a subpoena issued today, last night, by the Judiciary Committee for Manafort to appear tomorrow.

Now, the question is, what will happen if Manafort does not appear? What will the committee do then? Dianne Feinstein addressed this moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA, RANKING MEMBER, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: We can hold him in contempt and that's a more complicated process. I hope that's not the case.

I think he said that he would testify in public, and I think this is important for him to do so. I think it's important that members of the committee have an opportunity to see him. He's a very complicated figure, and there is a lot of material there, and a lot of questions that he raises.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, I talked to Feinstein after she talked to our colleague Ted Barrett there. And she told me, specifically, that they are having discussions with Manafort's camp, the Senate Judiciary Committee, to try to see if they can try to reach some sort of accommodation before any showdown tomorrow. Still don't know how -- if they will be successful.

But they did previously cut a deal to avoid this Wednesday hearing last week. They thought they had a deal. It fell apart. That's why they issued a subpoena.

The question is if Manafort and the Judiciary Committee can get back on the same page. Uncertain as of now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It's amazing what's going on.

Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, senior advisor, apparently, I take it, he's still meeting with the House Intelligence Committee. You're looking at live pictures behind closed doors over there as we speak. What have you heard about Kushner's questioning today?

RAJU: Yes, that's right. We're actually entering hour three of his testimony. Longer than when he met with Senate staff on the Intelligence Committee yesterday. This -- actually, members of the House Intelligence Committee attending this one, asking questions about that 11-page testimony he released yesterday, saying -- laying out his Russian contacts.

Now, Republicans who have emerged so far have been positive about Kushner's appearance, including Tom Rooney who's a Florida Congressman who's helping lead this Russia investigation.

I asked him about this. He said that Kushner has been forthright. He's been honest. And he thinks that he's answered all questions sufficiently.

And one thing, Wolf, Kushner said that he'll stay today as long as possible probably an effort to make sure he does not get called back again to the House Intelligence Committee -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, we'll follow that every step of the way as well. Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill, thanks very much.

Other important news up on Capitol Hill. It's nail-biting time in the health care showdown. Senate Republicans are meeting behind closed doors right now, in a final push to move the process forward.

The majority leader, Senator Mitch McConnell, has scheduled to vote today on what's called a motion to proceed. He says it's an opportunity for Republicans to make good on all their promises.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:10:08] SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), KENTUCKY, SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: I hope everyone will seize the moment. I certainly will. Only then can we open up a robust debate process. Only then will senators could offer additional ideas on health care. Inaction will do nothing to solve Obamacare's problems or bring relief to those who need it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Senator McConnell has a little more wiggle room now that Senator John McCain is returning to Washington for the vote, despite being diagnosed with brain cancer.

Our Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash is watching the Capitol Hill cliffhanger for us. Dana, do we know if Mitch McConnell has enough votes for this procedure motion to at least start the formal debate?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: We do not know for sure and it's unclear if he knows for sure. But I can say that I and our other team members up here have been talking to a lot of sources who are involved in that process of trying to get to 50 Republican senators. And they feel better now than they have pretty much ever in this very tumultuous process.

But we should really underscore that what you just said that this vote is, this is a motion to proceed. This is a procedural vote that is usually a no-brainer and that this is usually a clear party-line vote to begin debate on a -- on a measure.

The fact that this is so controversial and has had so many fix and starts gives you a very big indication that even if they do have this victory, which would be a victory given where we are in this universe, then they still have very many unanswered questions on what happens next.

When they get actually on the bill, if that actually does happen, what are they going to be able to come up with that will get another 50 votes, in terms of the substance of what an Obamacare repeal and replacement bill would look like. And, more importantly, can they come up with anything that will get that 50 votes? It's unclear.

If you see behind me, Wolf, there are a lot of people gathered. The Republicans are currently in their weekly policy lunch, having the final discussion before this first crucial vote which is going to happen supposedly in a little more than an hour.

So, we're going to have a very different sense and a very good sense of how this is going to go down about whether they can even start the debate.

But one thing I do want to say, and I'm not sure this is actually going to change any votes in the short term, but there seems to be a connection between the trolling that the president is doing of Jeff Sessions, the Attorney General, who is a former colleague of these Republicans. And the pressure that the president is trying to put on the current Republican senators.

Meaning, I've had two senior Republican senators say to me, you know, people are talking in the hallways and, you know, kind of been the -- in behind closed doors about, well, if the president is going after a guy who was incredibly loyal, with the very first senator to come out for Donald Trump when nobody else would go near him in this building.

And he's being so aggressive in clearly trying to force him to quit. What's going to happen when we need him to have our back if we go forward down the road and continue to vote on very -- potentially very tough health care measures when it comes to our constituents? Unclear if that's going to have ultimately an impact on people's votes but it is certainly part of the discussion here today.

BLITZER: Very quickly, Dana, tell us also about a dramatic moment we're about to see. Senator John McCain returning to the Senate.

BASH: That's right. John McCain did get an OK from his doctors to return. He is on his way back to Washington. He could be here in a little more than an hour to take a vote, to be a part of the process to start debate on health care. But, more importantly, to return to work. That he -- the fact he got the OK. He felt that he wanted to get in the game, get in the arena, as somebody who I respect, speaking to, knows him well was saying. Not necessarily about health care, but about the defense authorization bill in which he is in charge of as chair of the Armed Services Committee. The sanctions bill he's very much in favor of pushing through to get to the president's desk, sanctions against Russia.

So, things like that. You talked about drama. We're going to see him talk on the Senate floor about the process and about the atmospherics in the United States Senate. And it's hard to imagine he's not also going to be talking about his own very grim diagnosis of brain cancer.

BLITZER: Yes, we'll stand by for that dramatic moment indeed. We wish him only, only the best.

Dana, thanks very much. We'll get back to you.

[13:15:00] Later this hour, by the way, I'll also be joined live by Senator Rand Paul. He'll give us the details on the health care bill. The vote, Senator McCain's return to Capitol Hill, what the president is saying about the attorney general. That interview coming up later in the hour.

Meanwhile, the future of the attorney general, Jeff Sessions, can he hang on after President Trump's blistering Twitter attack? Should he?

And, later, a CNN exclusive. We have disturbing new details about Russian efforts to back the Taliban in Afghanistan, even as the Pentagon considers sending more U.S. troops to Afghanistan. Nick Paton Walsh will have an exclusive report from Kabul.

Much more coming up. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: All right, take a look at some live pictures we're -- coming in right now from Capitol Hill. There you see my colleague -- well, you see some members of the House Intelligence Committee. Jared Kushner, there you see him, tapping Adam Schiff, the ranking Democrat of the House Intelligence Committee, on his shoulder right there. Jared Kushner just wrapping up several hours of questioning before members of the House Intelligence Committee.

Let's listen in to the leaders of that committee as they speak.

REP. MIKE CONAWAY (R), TEXAS: Mr. Kushner. I found him to be straightforward, forthcoming. Wanted to answer every question that we had. And willing to follow-up on any questions that we think of later that we didn't get asked this morning. And I thank him for his -- the way he conducted himself this morning in a very professional matter.

[13:20:11] With that I'll turn it to my colleague from California.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), RANKING MEMBER, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We had a good opportunity to ask Mr. Kushner questions this morning.

He expressed, and his counsel, receptivity to coming back for further questions. But it was a very productive session. We had an opportunity to ask about a range of issues that the committee has been concerned about. We appreciate his voluntary willingness to come and testify today.

CONAWAY: Thank you all.

SCHIFF: Thank you.

BLITZER: All right, there you see the leaders of the Intelligence Committee investigating the Russia probe. Mike Conaway, who's the acting chairman, and Adam Schiff, who's the top Democrat on the committee, both suggesting it was a very productive session.

There you see Jared Kushner walking away from Congress.

Yesterday, when he got back to the White House, he made a statement at the driveway outside of the West Wing. We'll see if he does today. I suspect he won't.

Gloria, this is -- this is a big deal right now. The fact that -- second day in a row the president's son-in-law, the president's senior adviser, is appearing before a congressional committee.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. Right. And gave a statement about it yesterday. And made the case that every -- all of his meetings were innocent, portrayed himself as a naive of sorts, somebody who really didn't understand the implications of what -- of what he was doing in terms of meeting with the Russians and asking for general to general discussions that could be held potentially at the Russian embassy, et cetera, et cetera.

And, you know, you have to give him credit, quite honestly, for testifying before one committee one day, committee staffers one day, and in the House the next. I think that clearly his lawyers have a strategy here, which is, he wants to get it all -- all done very quickly and put this story out there that he was sort of an innocent to all of this.

BLITZER: Yes, his lawyers, Abbe Lowell, Jamie Gorelick, well-known lawyers here, and he seems to be doing what they're suggesting. You know what, get it out and move on.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Which doesn't mean that there aren't remaining questions for him.

BORGER: Sure.

CHALIAN: There are. And I don't think the pressure on him to speak publicly is going away anytime soon and I think that there are many members who still would like to probe things that he doesn't cover in detail necessarily in the 11-page statement and, obviously, we don't know the full content of what he has said behind closed doors. So I don't think the questions go away for the fact that he managed his public relations on this rather well yesterday and today. I think there's no doubt about that. But I don't think that necessarily removes the cloud.

BLITZER: He's getting fairly good grades as a result of his statement yesterday and his willingness to appear today.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Well, I think that's right. And to David's point, I do think that, from a P.R. perspective, this is helpful because I think you've seen so many administration officials be resistant to tell the whole story. It's come out drips and drabs. That said, you heard Adam Schiff, the ranking member there, say, we have some more questions for him.

So, you know, the issue here is, we don't really know what Adam -- what Adam -- what Jared Kushner told them behind closed doors. That could create problems that are totally invisible to us but that could have a sort of longer tale to it. But, yes, without question, I mean I think anytime time you come up to Capitol Hill, you show yourself at least to be willing to do so, to answer questions, to testify, you're helping yourself. Now it just depends on what you say.

BLITZER: And you know, Susan Page of "USA Today," if you lie to members of Congress, even if you're not under oath, that's a crime.

SUSAN PAGE, "USA TODAY": And, of course, I think what we're seeing happening yesterday is the unfolding of a new chapter in this whole investigation. So we're going to see principle figures, those very close to President Trump, coming up and being forced to answer questions under oath or not under oath in public or not, including in the Senate Judiciary Committee possibly tomorrow with Paul Manafort.

BLITZER: Manu Raju, you're up on Capitol Hill. You're monitoring what's going on. What are you hearing?

Unfortunately, I think we just lost Manu Raju. We'll -- we'll find him. We'll get back to him.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Yes, that's right. And actually --

BLITZER: Oh, there he is right now. Manu, I don't know if you can hear me, but tell us what you're learning.

RAJU: Yes, that's right. Actually I just briefly asked a question to Jim Heinz, who's a top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. I said, how did Jared Kushner do? What did you think? He said he was cooperative. So positive signal from one Democrat. He did not want to talk further. Members were rushing out to get to vote. So we didn't really get a chance to get a full download from a number of members.

Jared Kushner also left here. I tried to ask him a question on his way out saying, will you come back to Capitol Hill? Is this your last time you can -- you will testify? He definitely heard my question. He walked right by me. He smiled and he said, thank you. So he didn't answer this question. On the way in I tried to ask him if you'll testify publically. He didn't answer that either. [13:25:06] So the question is whether or not members have further questions. This was a -- more than three hour session. Kushner, I'm told, made it very clear on the way in that he would stay as long as the members wanted. He wanted to answer as many questions. Probably an effort not to come back to Capitol Hill, to have another round of questioning from the House Intelligence Committee.

We do already know, Wolf, that the Senate Intelligence Committee members want to have a chance to ask him questions. He did talk to the staff of that committee yesterday. The question is, will he come back and talk to the senators as well. We don't have a sense of that yet. We do know that also at today's session, Republicans felt pretty good about the way Kushner did. One -- two Republicans that I've talked to both said that he was forthright, he was cooperative, he answered all of their questions. They said they believed what he said, that he was not involved in any collusion. The question is, how do Democrats feel about this and how does this affect the investigation going forward.

But those are some of the early sentiments on The Hill here as we try to get a fuller download of exactly what happened behind closed doors for more than three hours, Wolf.

BLITZER: Ys, Congressman Adam Schiff, the ranking Democrat, he's going to join me live in "The Situation Room" later today, 5:00 p.m. Eastern. And, remember, yesterday, the president called Congressman Adam Schiff sleazy. We'll get his reaction and we'll get his sense of how the questioning of Kushner went today.

Manu, we'll get back to you. Thanks very much.

Other important stories we're following. Get this, seven tweets during the 6:00 a.m. hour this morning. President Trump sounding off on a series of stories this morning, while most of America was sleeping, but none resonating as big as his repeated criticism of the attorney general of the United States, Jeff Sessions.

Gloria, seven tweets during the 6:00 a.m. hour. The tone, obviously, very negative towards Jeff Sessions. Can he survive this?

BORGER: No. I think the only question left is, does he quit or does he wait to get fired? And I think that that's something that's probably -- he's trying to figure out right now, Wolf. I don't -- I think it's sort of untenable at this point and I think perhaps the president doesn't realize the kind of backlash that he might get, not only from members of Congress, as Dana was pointing out earlier, because there's a sense that the president won't have their back. This was his most loyal soldier from the Senate during the -- you know, during the campaign, but also from his political base.

You know, Jeff Sessions is the man who was carrying the water on immigration, for example, for this president. And they're going to be lots of people -- and we're already starting to see people like conservative Jim DeMint come out, even Breitbart today. I think that there is a -- there is a sense that the president, in embarrassing, trolling and really torturing poor Jeff Sessions is doing that to one of their own, you know, a real -- a true conservative whom they like and they feel that they need his input in this administration.

BLITZER: And listen to Lindsey Graham, Republican, South Carolina. He tweeted this morning. "President Trump's tweet today suggesting Attorney General Sessions pursue prosecution of a former political rival is highly inappropriate." And he went on to really support Sessions.

Mike Lee, the senator from Utah, said this. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MIKE LEE (R), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Even though he and I disagree from time to time, I find him to be a man of integrity. A man who has led the Department of Justice in what I regard to be a positive direction. I look forward to continuing to work with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A bunch of Republicans are rallying around Jeff Sessions.

CHALIAN: Yes, and it certainly looks like they've been given the signal that it's OK to do so. Now is the time to buck up Jeff Sessions.

Here's the thing. This isn't about Jeff Sessions. This isn't about one cabinet member. This is about the fundamental value of the rule of law because it's not just Jeff Sessions. The president is going after his attorney general, the deputy attorney general, the acting director of the FBI, the special prosecutor. This is about the people that head up the -- the top law enforcement agencies that are, what, oh, by the way, investigating this president and his campaign's dealings with Russia.

This is a problem that this president is not seeing the need at all, it seems, for independence. For these folks at the top of the law enforcement agencies, he sees no need to separate that from his own legal exposure and his political peril.

[13:29:38] CILLIZZA: Ah, yes, first of all. Second, let's go back to Jim Comey's testimony, you know, the recounting of the "I expect loyalty," right? That -- Donald Trump views everyone -- he splits everyone into two camps, either you support him or you hate him and are out to get him. And it's not party driven necessarily. It's not even really ideologically driven. It's just driven of, do you say nice things about him, whether you're a reporter, a political operative, a member of Congress or a member of his cabinet. If you say and do what he wants, you are good. If you do not, you are bad. Because people will say, how can he possibly