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Trump Steps Up Attacks Against Attorney General; Sessions Reportedly Refusing To Quit Despite Attacks; Breitbart Article Slams Trump Hypocrisy; McCain Calls For Cooperation To Serve Voters; Cardinal Pell Appears In Court; Study: CTE In 99 Percent Of Brains From Diseased NFL Players; Trump Criticized For Boy Scouts Speech; Trump Supporters Weigh In On Russia Investigation; Trump Turns Boy Scouts Speech Into A Political Rally; Debt Bondage In Cambodia's Brick Kilns; Musk & Zuckerberg Feuding Over The Future Of Artificial Intelligence. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired July 26, 2017 - 01:00   ET


[01:00:00] ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR: You are watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Ahead this hour, despite another day of harsh criticism from the U.S. President, Attorney General Jeff Sessions has no plans to resign. Will the President now make the next move and tell Sessions: you're fired?

SOARES: Plus, the close advisor to Pope Francis appears in court, facing multiple charges of historical sexual assault offenses.

VAUSE: And later this hour, two of the biggest names in the tech industry and the debate over artificial intelligence; will it save us or be the end of humanity?

SOARES: Hello, and a very warm welcome. I'm Soares.

VAUSE: Hello, everybody, great to have you with us. I'm John Vause. We're now into the second hour of NEWSROOM L.A.

The U.S. President continues to escalate his unforgiving campaign against his own Attorney General. But the attacks on Jeff Sessions, one of his earliest and most loyal supporters of Donald Trump, seems to have opened a rift with conservatives.

SOARES: It's unprecedented for a president to publicly shame a cabinet member. But Mr. Trump insists he's doing the right thing and says he's better than nearly all his predecessors. Take a listen.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sometimes they say, he doesn't act Presidential.


And I say, hey, look, great schools, smart guy. It's so easy to act Presidential. But that's not going to get it done. With the exception of the late great Abraham Lincoln, I can be more presidential than any president that's ever held this office. That I can tell you.


VAUSE: Later adding humility to his list of qualities. Well, despite all those very public complaints about Jeff Sessions, Mr. Trump is not saying whether or not he will keep the Attorney General.

SOARES: But Sara Murray reports now, Republican lawmakers are stepping up in Sessions' defense.


SARA MURRAY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump's using a crucial day in his presidency to hurl insults at his attorney general. But Trump dodged questions about whether Sessions should step down at a rose garden news conference today.

TRUMP: I'm very disappointed with the attorney general. But we will see what happens. Time will tell. Time will tell.

MURRAY: Trump tweeting, Attorney General Jeff Sessions has taken a very weak position on Hillary Clinton crimes (where are e-mails and DNC server) and Intel leakers? Advisers say the real reason Trump is stewing is because he's still livid over Sessions' decision to recuse himself from the Russia probe. That decision made back in March on the advice of other Justice Department officials.

TRUMP: He should not have recused himself almost immediately after he took office. And if he was going to recuse himself, he should have told me prior to taking office, and I would have quite simply picked somebody else.

MURRAY: Sessions said earlier this year that he would bow out of any investigation into Clinton.

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: To be very clear, do you intend to recuse yourself from both the Clinton e-mail investigation and any matters involving the Clinton foundation if there are any?


MURRAY: And Trump himself said after the election he didn't want to see the Clintons investigated.

TRUMP: I don't want to hurt them. I don't want to hurt them. They're good people.

MURRAY: Trump's newly minted Communications Director, Anthony Scaramucci, made no apologies for the President's behavior today, as he acknowledged that Trump probably wants Sessions to step aside.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT: I have an enormous amount of respect for the attorney general, but I do know the President pretty well, and if there's this level of tension in the relationship that's public, you're probably right. But I don't want to speak for the President on that, because he's a cabinet official, and I sort of think that has to be between the President of the United States and the cabinet official.

MURRAY: Sessions was once one of Trump's closest allies, and the first U.S. Senator to endorse Trump's Presidential bid.

SESSIONS: I am pleased to endorse Donald Trump for the presidency of the United States.

MURRAY: Now, the President's public flogging of his former friend isn't sitting well with other U.S. Senators. Republican Senators, including Rob Portman, Ted Cruz, and Lindsey Graham all leaped to Sessions' defense. In his statement, Graham called Sessions a rock solid conservative and shot back at Trump's criticism. Saying, President Trump's tweet today suggesting Attorney General Sessions pursue prosecution of a former political rival is highly inappropriate. Sara Murray, CNN, Youngstown, Ohio.


VAUSE: Well, joining us now for more: Talk Radio Host, Ethan; and California Republican National Committeeman, Shawn Steele. Thank you for coming in.

SOARES: Welcome, gentlemen.

[01:05:07] VAUSE: Shawn, first to you. The attorney general, we are hearing, refusing to stand down and refusing quit. The president, who made a fortune and made a career out of saying the words "you're fired," doesn't seem to want to say that to Jeff Sessions, at least not yet. Does that now mean that Donald Trump has to find another way, essentially, to fire the Special Counsel, Robert Mueller, who's looking into the Russia (INAUDIBLE) between the other Trump campaign and the Kremlin. And is this a case of Mueller's getting too close to Donald Trump?

SHAWN STEELE, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEEMAN: No. There are two things going on here, if Donald Trump wanted Sessions fired, he'd be fired today immediately. He's not firing him; he's making a deliberate decision to kind of keep it up in the air. He surely is communicating a lot of displeasures with Sessions. I like Jeff Sessions. I think he's an honest and honorable guy, but I think he's also politically naive. By allowing the system to bring about a Robert Mueller, who is best friends with Comey, who's bringing all these henchmen to the prosecution; these guys are head hunters that are going after the President and his family personally. That's a big deal.

VAUSE: Ethan, leaders praised in public, criticized in private, is what I was always told.

ETHAN BEARMAN, TALK RADIO HOST: Well, this is -- first off, just because you're president doesn't mean you're a leader. Secondly, this is somebody who doesn't understand the rules of anything, which is what his supporters liked about him. They wanted him to turn everything upside down; that's what we're getting. And in this case, though, you actually said something, John, where you talked about Jeff Sessions continuing on and not quitting, which is exactly what "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE" portrayed him as with Kate, ask for his gum, and that is what is coming true.

SOARES: We have heard so much in the last couple of days about loyalty. It seems to be a hot topic in this administration. Of course, Sessions was the first to endorse President Trump. But since he's been dismissed by President Trump in an interview with the Wall Street Journal, this is what he said, "When they say he endorsed me, I went to Alabama. I had 40,000 people. He was a Senator from Alabama. He looks at 40,000 people and he probably says, what do I have to lose and he endorsed me. So, it's like a great lawyer thing about the endorsement." Does he have a point?

BEARMAN: None, whatsoever. Jeff Sessions was already a very popular senator from Alabama, who could have stayed in his senate seat for eternity if he had wanted to. So, this is that strange ego that this president continues to exhibit. Kind of like saying things like, I could be the greatest president since the great late Abraham Lincoln. He could be, but he's not and he's not trying to be.

STEELE: Here's the problem. Trump is different, and a lot of the average main stream media types aren't happy with this. He's actually is unfiltered. He says what he wants to think. You don't have to guess. He's not playing a game here. He's actually telling people exactly what he -- how he views the world. And that really upsets the Washington class and upsets the establishment.

BEARMAN: It also upsets how our system works. It upsets our allies. It upsets now our justice system.

STEELE: No, no. That's just you.

VAUSE: It's not just the lame stream media that's upset -- let's see

STEELE: I didn't say that lame.

VAUSE: Well, I know. I know you're thinking it. So, it's OK. Look, here's the reaction from conservative media, so, if you don't like the Washington Post, CNN, New York Times, whatever -- this is Breitbart, OK, the alt-right Web site Breitbart. This is --

STEELE: Oh, it's right. That's a smear.

VAUSE: "President Trump decision, Tuesday, to attack Attorney General Jeff Sessions over Sessions' position on Hillary Clinton various scandals only serves to highlight Trump's own hypocrisy on the issue," note the word hypocrisy, "and is likely to fuel concerns from his base who see Sessions at the best hope to fulfill Trump's immigration policies." You know, Shawn that is a big slap from Breitbart. And you know what, they're not alone (INAUDIBLE). You know, a lot of conservative media outlets are very unhappy.

STEELE: And Ann Coulter, and Tucker Carlson, and a number of others. But Breitbart is divided. There've been other articles but this is the farthest. But the point is, you're right, among the conservative right, there's no such thing as an alt-right. That's completely thing that's made up by Hillary Clinton and the other losers. The key is, there is an honest difference here, and I think there's a robust debate taking place, and I don't think that you're going to see Sessions is going to be thrown out or be fired because there'd too much of a blowback.

On the other hand, look at August, summer recess, Sessions resigns, you know what happens? What happens is that he gets to a point, his own attorney general, on an interim basis, until the end of Congress, for another year and a half. Now, that would be pretty exciting, and that maybe something that Sessions is may be considering. So, who knows? But that's just -- that's a very good speculation.

SOARES: Let me -- well, that's wonderful speculation. Let's talk a bit about what we heard from President Trump today, because he sounded rather presidential, putting free a presidential pitch today in Ohio. He defended his unconventional approach. But he also talked about some of his policies, immigration to be one of those. Let's take a listen.


[01:10:04] TRUMP: Earlier this year, immigration and customs enforcement conducted the largest single raid on transnational gangs in the history of our country. We are dismantling and destroying the blood thirsty criminal gangs, and well, I will just tell you this, we're not doing it in a politically correct fashion.


We're doing it rough. Our guys are rougher than their guy.


VAUSE: Ethan, do you hear those cheers? I mean, that's not just Trump's base, that's Sessions' fans as well. And he had that territory staked out a long time before Trump came along.

BEARMAN: Yes, that's absolutely right. And what's just really upsetting is the term "and we're tougher than the other guys." We have the rule of law in this country. We have laws about how law enforcement, immigration enforcement is supposed to actually occur, how you treat other people. There's case precedent on this, let alone the Constitution. It is wrong, and actually what has come about here in California is an actual deportation force, which they continue to deny. But 15,000 new agents grabbing people when they're dropping kids off at school, tearing families apart. It is not at all just focused on the gangs. I'm all for getting rid of the gangs, all for it, but that's not just what is happening.

STEELE: Of course, that's completely untrue. You don't care about the gangs. You don't care about illegals.

BEARMAN: Of course, I do.

STEELE: You don't care about the criminality.

BEARMAN: Talked about it in the news.

STEELE: And the majority of Americans are upset with the thousands -- millions of people that have come into this country, jumping the line, many of them criminals, and no action, no enforcement, and the Obama administration telling the immigration authorities to stand down.


BEARMAN: Why did he appoint Governor Rick Perry when he was governor of Texas, do nothing about immigration because he just wanted those workers to that absolutely are terrible.

STEELE: He's -- that's not true. (INAUDIBLE). He had no patrol over immigration. This is a typical liberal excuse.

VAUSE: We always get into this argument with you guys on immigration. But listen, but the point is that, you know, Trump campaign, a lot of Sessions' strong points, the stuff that makes Sessions popular makes Donald Trump very popular. This is where the political problems come along. There are also the political problems to Donald Trump when it comes to the issue of loyalty.

This is a man, who demands loyalty from those around him, but a lot of Republican lawmakers, especially while they're trying to get this very difficult health bill plan through the Senate, they are looking, does the person we'll ask into question, does Donald Trump have my back? If Jeff Sessions is on thin ice, Mr. Loyalty from the beginning, what's he going to do for me? And Shawn, that's one of the reasons why this motion today, barely passed by one vote with Mike Pence, the Vice President, coming in as the tiebreaker, just to start the debate on the Senate out there.

STEELE: It was supposed to lose. It was actually quite a stunning victory because most of the media thought it was going to lose, it wasn't going anywhere, Republicans were going to desert to Republicans who are going to vote against it. Not true, not true, fake news. The key is with Sessions, he uncorked the Genie from the bottle that created the special prosecutor monster. And I don't like any of them, Republicans special prosecutors, Democratic special prosecutors always ends in a witch hunt that has way too much power, it's unaccountable. And Sessions did it on his watch, and it's a terrible thing.

SOARES: Well, today we saw Senator John McCain return to the Senate. He got a standing ovation, and he was pretty scathing today when he spoke. Let's take a listen to what he says.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I hope they again can rely on humility on our need to cooperate, on our dependence on each other, to learn how to trust each other again, and by so doing better, serve the people who elected us. Stop listening to the bombastic loud mouths on the radio and television and the internet -- to hell with them.


SOARES: He also said whether or not we are the same party, we're not the president's subordinates; we are his equal. So, a very powerful, not only not observing to protest (INAUDIBLE), but also calling for bipartisanship. What did you make of it?

BEARMAN: Well, John McCain definitely talks a good game, and he is a true war hero, unlike what now President Trump said during the campaign when he said he wasn't a war hero because he got shot down. It was really despicable when the President said that during the campaign. John McCain speaks the truth. We have three equal branches here in the government, in the United States. That's how we're set up. So, absolutely, the Senate has every right to not do what the president wants us to do.

SOARES: But they're like schoolchildren just bickering over this.

STEELE: John McCain proved that he's a real hero again. He has a life threatening problem, was probably incurable cancer to the brain that shows up, and nobody expects him to show up. I have great respect for him. And he came here to support the president's agenda. That's also something that a lot of Democrats don't want to mention. But he mentioned something very serious about bombastic radio personalities, and I'm here to tell you: I don't think it's Ethan.



STEELE: But I'm not a radio personality.

VAUSE: You are on T.V., and you do have a vote for that.

STEELE: Thank you so much.

SOARES: On that note, we'll leave it. Thank you very much.

[01:15:04] VAUSE: Thanks, guys. Well, the U.S. House has overwhelmingly passed a bill that includes new sanctions against Russia, Iran, and North Korea. The vote came the same day Pyongyang ramped up its nuclear threats against the United States. CNN's Will Ripley joins us from Seoul, South Korea. And Matt Rivers is also joining us live there in Beijing. Will, first to you. These U.S. sanctions, they still have to get through the Senate. But to the North Koreans, the anger and focus seems to be on comments which came from the CIA Director Mike Pompeo.

[01:15:35] WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. North Korea is used to sanctions. There have been six rounds that have done little to slow their nuclear and missile programs. But Mike Pompeo was implying that the United States is looking for regime change in North Korea, saying that the North Korean people would love it if Kim Jong-un, their supreme leader went away, saying the United States would like to separate Kim from his growing nuclear arsenal. Pyongyang predictably responded with a threat of a preemptive nuclear attack against the United States. But these remarks are surprising considering here in South Korea, President Moon Jae-in said that regime change is not South Korea's goal and in April, Rex Tillerson said regime change is not something the United States is after. Although I was in North Korea at that time, and they didn't believe it for one second, certainly these remarks from the CIA Director just back up North Korea's belief they have to keep developing these weapons of mass destruction.

VAUSE: Will, thank you. To Matt in Beijing, who has seen the government there making the place for a potential conflict between North Korea and the United States.

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It does appear that way. There's been some reports published for the people's liberation army here in China that suggested the creation of a new border defense brigade that is in charge of patrolling the border and also gathering intelligence along presumably would be the North Korean border. There was also another report issued that talked about the installation of 24-hour video surveillance along that border. This is an 880 or so long border. It's very porous and rural. It's hard to access in some places. So the fact that China does appear, if you want to put 24- hour surveillance at that border, you're going to need to commit the resources to do that. So it does appear with the creation of this brigade, China is looking at the ongoing situation, recognizing a tense reality. And apparently reacting as they see fit.

VAUSE: Matt, thank you. Matt Rivers live in Beijing and Will Ripley live in Seoul.

SOARES: Coming up, a top adviser to Pope Francis appears in an Australian court, facing multiple charges of historical sexual assault offenses.

VAUSE: Also this hour, a lot of new information about American football brain damage, and the reason researchers say athletes are at risk.


[01:20:18] VAUSE: A close adviser to Pope Francis plans to plead not guilty to multiple charges of historical sexual assault offenses. Cardinal George Pell appeared before a magistrate just a few hours ago.

SOARES: He's been given a leave of his post from the Vatican to fight the charges. CNN's Anna Coren joins us from Melbourne, Australia. What did the cardinal have to say?

ANA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the cardinal had nothing to say. He remained very silent as he walked from his lawyer's offices about 100 meters from where I am, through an incredible media scrum, something that cameramen and journalists here in Australia have never witnessed before. He walked flanked by police into court where he went through security, was taken away to a private room where he had private meetings. He then appeared before the court. This was a preliminary routine hearing which he didn't have to attend. But you have to remember, this is the cardinal, as you say, one of Pope Francis's closest advisers. He is a Secretary to the Economy at the Vatican that means he's in charge of the Vatican's finances. He's on an advisory board for the pope, which deals with things hike something like sexual abuse. This is the third most powerful man in the Vatican. So he was always going to attend today after he was charged with those multiple historical sexual assault offenses. Police have not gone into the charges. We don't have details of the charges or the alleged victims due to legal reasons. But at the time, certainly Cardinal Pell said that he was looking forward to this day in court to clear his name. He said he was innocent and that he finds sexual assault, sexual abuse abhorrent. So to see him walk up the stairs here, surrounded by dozens of journalists and photographers, and really had to endure very rough treatment, it was quite extraordinary.

SOARES: Yes. The next hearing is October 6th. Anna Coren, thank you very much. Good to see you.

VAUSE: Another legal hurdle for the family of Charlie Gard asking a U.K. court to bring their son home to die. They decided to take their baby off life support. The court has given the family until noon Wednesday to find a willing medical practitioner to oversee the death.

SOARES: Researchers have examined the brains of football players and found CTE in 177 cases. What's even more alarming, of the 111 former NFL players examined, all but one had to the disease. It leads to memory loss as well as aggression. Here's CNN's Sanjay Gupta with more.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: There are no questions that it's concerning. You hear 99 percent of professional football players have evidence of this CTE, and what I would tell you is that it is concerning. This is the largest study that's been done and looked at lots of players. But one thing I want to make a little context here. When a study like this is performed, there may be people who are concerned that they have symptoms, and as a result, they go to their doctors and get their brains examined after they die. So it's what they call a selected group here. So they're more likely to have actually had CTE but even with that, even if you say OK, well, there are a lot of players out there totally fine, never have a problem. Even if every other mare in the NFL did not have CTE, this would still be a significant number, 110 players who do have evidence of this. We know more about this disease than ever before. We know what causes it, repetitive blows to the head, and we know it can lead to all these mood problems and shortened life in many players as well. So something we're definitely going to keep following.

SOARES: Let's have more on this story. Anthony, thank you very much for coming in to talk to us about this. I wanted to get your take first on this report. What does it actually mean for the players that you represented, the stories that you've heard?

[01:25:15] ANTHONY TALL, FOUNDER, ASPIRE SPORTS GROUP: I think it's very, very -- I think it's going to be a very detrimental blow to the brand of the NFL. This will affect players on the pop warner level, players in college and a lot of soccer moms aren't going to want their kids playing football anymore. Once we see the numbers, how staggering the numbers are, it kind of sets up a possibility where the NFL brand could be permanently damaged. So I think that's what pops out to me.

VAUSE: We go to the study. Whether or not it is, you know, what it means legally, the criticism is that the study was limited, that the brains were donated from concerned family members, it wasn't a random study. So it's kind of skewed and it's circumstantial evidence. it seems overwhelming circumstantial evidence, but still circumstantial.

TALL: I think because of the numbers that they're so dramatic here, 99 -- 110 out of 111, it's hard to argue it's circumstantial. We have direct evidence. This is going all the way back to players who played -- I mean players that played in high school, they found symptoms of CTE that will probably come about later on in their lifetime. So with that being so prevalent, I think it's more direct evidence.

SOARES: In 2016, the NFL acknowledged a connection between football and CTE. So hearing this now from NFL, how do you feel? I want to get a sense from your clients, people you represent, how worried are they about this?

TALL: Well, I think they're very worried about it. From athletes I've represented, they're very worried, because a lot of them have been playing for years. That statement by the NFL is a statement that you would expect, because it's leaving open the argument that they could come back later and say well, it's not 100 percent that those head traumas are the cause of CTE. Now that the evidence is so overwhelming, it's devastating from talking to players, and players that I've worked with, they're very worried about it, and it's going to have a strong effect on the league.

VAUSE: The NFL puts up over $100 million for research related to concussion and injuries. That seems to be chump change for the world's richest sporting franchise, last year, $12 billion. I mean, I guess the question here is, are they doing enough, including they need to do a lot more?

TALL: No, they're not. The NFL is an owner's league. What I mean by that is the owners run the league. The NBA and major league baseball are a players league. That's guaranteed contracts with major league baseball and the national basketball association. NFL, there's no guaranteed contracts. So that same psychology and mentality went into this settlement. The judge had to reverse this or at least have them go back and get more, because she even thought it was too small of a settlement. Remember, a lot of the lawyer fees ate up a lot of that money.

SOARES: We'll see if it hurts the NFL and the allure of the NFL, the mothers putting their children through this, we'll see.

TALL: Yes. That's something we'll have to see as time goes by. I know the NFL is trying to teach safety in terms of like you were just saying on the younger age. I think because this study is so profound, and because the numbers are so staggering, I think this is a very big blow to the brand of the NFL. VAUSE: And there are other concerns about hockey and other sports too

which have big hit injuries, too. So this isn't just about football. Anthony, thanks for coming in.

SOARES: Thank you very much.

TALL: Thank you.

[01:30:04] JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANHOR: We'll take a short break. When we come back right here, U.S. presidents have avoided talking politics when they went to see the boy scouts. President Donald Trump, for a definition, telling a speech expected to be non-partisan into just another political rally.


VAUSE: Thank you for staying with us. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause.

ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Isa Soares, the headlines this hour, U.S. President Donald Trump just great from the term surrounding his White House for sixth campaign rally that's taking off. He did praise senators from moving ahead on the House head debate in first the country is one step closer to being liberated from what he calls the Obamacare nightmare.

VAUSE: And U.K. court will decide on Wednesday where Charlie Gard will die. His parent wants permission to bring the terminally ill baby home after agreeing to taking off life support. But local says that, I know doctors willing oversee Charlie's death at home, the call has given the family until noon to find a willing medical practitioner.

SOARES: The opposition in Venezuela is calling for nationwide strike on Wednesday and Thursday against President Nicolas Maduro's government. They're also pushing to distract Sunday's vote to elect a special assembly that's going to give more power to Mr. Maduro and strict political power away from his opponent.

VAUSE: Well, as the U.S. President Donald Trump sets off his public attacks on his attorney general, many are actually wondering how long Jeff Sessions will actually remain in the job. Before talking to supporters in Ohio, the president criticize Sessions again for recusing himself from the Russia investigation.

SOARES: Well, it went off about the future of his attorney general, Mr. Trump said I'm quoting here, we will see what happens time will tell, he says. Well, and Gary Tuchman found out how some of the president supporters feel about all of these.


GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jojo de Zeno (ph) says she arrive for Donald Trump's Ohio rally at 5:00 a.m.

(on camera): So, you're 14 hours early. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's OK.

(on camera): You're devoted?


(voice-over): And she is among many others just like her, the people who come to Donald Trump's rallies are among the most loyal portion of his base.

(on camera): Do you think he just stop talking by Hillary Clinton and move on to the elections.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lock her up. Lock her up.

(on camera): He's got a lot some --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would care lock her up too, so, yes.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tweet away, what I say tweet away. A lot this get his message across, that's all that matters.

(voice-over): Amid the loyalty and devotion, though, there is a difference of opinion between the president and some of his supporters about --

(on camera): Jeff Session the attorney general has been very loyal to Donald Trump from the beginning.


(on camera): And from tweeting about him, name somethings that seems like his shaming his attorney general, wanted him to step down. Do you think that Donald is trying to get rid of Jeff Sessions?

[01:35:05] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I personally like Jeff Sessions. I think he's doing a very good job. I think he is dedicated to what his job has to do.

(on camera): This about the (ph) that Donald Trump is doing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a way, it does.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sessions is a good attorney general and I don't think they should get rid of him. And I don't think Donald Trump wants to get rid of him. I think the news media makes that out.

(voice-over): For the record, President Trump has called his attorney general beleaguered and criticized him for being weak.

(on camera): And many here agree with that, adding that Jeff Sessions should go for the good of the team. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I say that if Donald Trump feels that Sessions is not doing his whole job, bye-bye.

(voice-over): Daniel Descola (ph) is one of the many we tough to hear who like the president's anger that the attorney general recused himself in the Russia investigation.

(on camera): What some people think that Donald Trump wants Sessions to quit so he can bring a new attorney general who would then get rid of Robert Mueller to special council.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the special council should begun (ph) rather, it's ridiculous.

(voice-over): Robert Mueller is having a steam professional career. There's not much talk about that here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm hoping that Mueller is trying to get himself fired. He is obviously a very -- he's not a -- it's not a special council, it's a witch hunt, I believe --

(on camera): You know that for sure?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at all the people he fired.

(on camera): But you know that for sure. You think he's corrupt?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe that he is. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He asked to do what's best for him. He's trying to make Donald Trump. He's trying to make America great again.

on camera): So, you think that it would help him when we stay on trouble is you get rid of the special council.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it helps to stay out of trouble, yes.

(voice-over): And what if the president gets into increasing trouble?

(on camera): Donald Trump would be allowed to pardon himself, can he be getting legal or have to go trouble, do you think he should pardon himself?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I don't that that's the case. And I don't think that he should do that actually.

(on camera): You know, that was case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. He shouldn't pardon himself.

(voice-over): But most people we talk to do not agree because they believe in hope it will stay a more point.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He doesn't need to pardon himself. There's nothing to find him guilty on.

(voice-over): Donald Trump's most fervent supporters, staying loyal.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Youngstown, Ohio.


VAUSE: U.S. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt was once described as the greatest friend of scouting movement ever had in the House. And 1933, he became the first and only U.S. president, he inducted into the scouts Order of the Arrow recognizing his commitment to his best and to his duty for God and country.

During his accepted speech he referred to the NRA which is not the National Rifle Association but back then the NRA was the National Recovery Administration. A key part of his new deal program.


FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: You come right down to it, the NRA is based on the same fundamentals that scouting is based on. In other words, trying to do something for the other fellow and not trying to do something. It's based on cooperation, you know, what that means. It is based on the spirit of service. And it is going to work just like scouting has worked.


VAUSE: Well, for the time perhaps maybe that could be considered a little political. Four years later, when the Boy Scouts of America held their very first national jamboree and FDR made an appearance, he handed out an eagle badge, he post photographs and did not talk politics, a petition which lasted for 80 years until now.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Do you want to achieve your dreams, I said, who the hell wants to speak about politics when I'm in front of the boy scouts. We ought to change it from the word swamp to the word cesspool of perhaps to the word sewer. But it's not good. Not good.

Did President Obama ever come to a jamboree? Do you remember that incredible night with the maps, and the Republicans are red, and the Democrats are blue and that map was so red it was unbelievable. And, you know, we have a tremendous disadvantage in the Electoral College. Popular vote is much easier.


VAUSE: Just part of a speech by President Trump which been why they criticized from many of the parents of the scouts, from politicians as well as commentators. Here's part of what Tom Eblen at the Lexington Herald-Leader brought.

Rather than try to inspire patriotism and high ideals in these impressionable teenaged boys excited about seeing an American president, Trump treated them like just another group of fans at one of his Nuremberg-style campaign rallies.

And Tom Eblen joins us now from Lexington, Kentucky. And Eblen, thanks for being with us. And just by a way of --


VAUSE: -- you and your family, you have a very long history with the Boy Scouts of America.

[01:40:00] TOM EBLEN, COLUMNIST, LEXINGTON HERALD-LEADER: Yes. I'm an eagle scout. My three younger brothers are real -- all eagle scouts. And our father was a scout master for many years.

VAUSE: OK. So you have a dog in this fight as they say.

EBLEN: Absolutely, John.

VAUSE: -- think back at what President Trump said during that speech from your point of view, what was the lowest point?

EBLEN: That's hard to say. There were so many low points. I just thought the entire speech was completely inappropriate. But for the scouts or for any group of young people.

VAUSE: You know, at one point, the crowd, they started chanting, we love Trump. Listen to this.


CROWD: We love Trump. We love Trump. We love Trump.


VAUSE: You say and you commented the Boy Scouts of America must denounce the speech or just rename the organization Trump youth that clearly is a very loaded statement with over turning to Nazi Germany, is that what you were hinting at?

EBLEN: Yes. I was just really outraged. I thought not only at what the president said but at the reaction. I don't see much blame in the boys because boys will be boys. But I just thought that the leaders, you know, it's like going to -- could've done anything, should have stopped some of that reaction. But I just really think it's incumbent on the boy scouts now to reject, you know, what the president said, the way the scouts behaved and just make it clear that these kind of comments, this kind of behavior does not live up to the organizations ideals. The scouts have always been about good character. And this was not good character.

VAUSE: You put a good deal of blame on the organization for this. I agree that they should have expected a speech like this from a president like this. Is it realistic though for the organization to have not invited Mr. Trump, after all he is the president of the United State?

EBLEN: You know, I think it was fine to invite him. What I meant was, that they should've been ready to do some damage control because they have expected that something would happen. And it was almost 24- hours later before they issued a statement which frankly was very lame.

VAUSE: Specifically, what would you like to see the Boy Scouts of America do right now with regards to the speech?

EBLEN: I think they should make a statement that the president's first in political remarks and behavior was inappropriate. And I think they should regret the audience actions, some of the chance and some of the -- doing President Obama. I just think, you know, the organization needs to stand up and say, this is not what we are about, you know, we expect a better behavior from the president and better behavior from our members.

VAUSE: Do you believe that President Trump was where the controversy of the speech would cause? Many have argued on his offense. He's not your typical politician.

EBLEN: Well, I'm never sure what he's aware off. But, you know, he doesn't really seemed to regulate his behavior very well. So, it's kind of hard to say.

VAUSE: OK. Tom, we'll leave it there. But we have very interesting commentary and it's a very interesting points you make in that right. So, thanks for being with us. We appreciate it.

EBLEN: All right, thank you, John.

SOARES: Now, still ahead a brick kilns workers in Cambodia pay just fractions of a cent. And CNN's Freedom Project, we'll speak to labors who say its impossible pay off their debt with such neither way. She's going to bring that story next.


[01:45:48] SOARES: Now, all this week as CNN Freedom Project is investigating and exposing the use of children and bondage labors in the brick kilns of Cambodia.

VAUSE: Construction is powering Cambodia's Burma economy. But there are concerns that build on the back of child slave labor in particular at brick making factories.

CNN's Alexandra Field reports.


ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what progress looks like. Cambodia is one of the fastest growing economies in Asia. Construction is booming making brick kilns one of the country's largest economic sectors.

It all starts here in the factories, largely outside the capital Phnom Penh where life looks very different. UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I hope that the brick kiln known, it close this kiln when they run out of clay so I can get rid of the debt and stop working here.

(voice-over): Conditions are tough. Toilets are rare, so as running water. Entire families live right here at the factories. The work is seasonal. And some of the workers have to return most of the meeker wages they earn.

(on camera): Every worker we talked to tells us that they owe the factory owner money either a thousand dollar sometimes even a few thousand dollars. It's money that they borrowed to pay for medical expenses, for funerals, to support their children or sometimes to pay up higher interest loans. In order to pay down this debt, they come to work here in the brick kilns.

(voice-over): In a scathing report a Cambodian NGO Ricardo (ph), said the wide spread practice amounts to debt bondage, a form of modern day slavery, illegal under Cambodian law.

The Cambodian Labor Ministry disputes those findings. They say the kilns are closely inspected and that they haven't found any cases of debt bondage.

CHAN NARY, OWNER, BRINK KILN (through translator): All of my workers owe me money, not some of them but all of them.

(voice-over): A factory owner we speak on the outskirts of Phnom Penh says it's just in advance loan is being worked off.

NARY (through translator): And a lot of here are good because the bills are put on me. When they give birth we pay. When they get married, we also pay. So their debts increase because they barrow our money.

(voice-over): She says she pays her workers three Cambodian riels per brick a fraction of a fraction of a cent. At other kilns labor say it's impossible to pay off what they owe with the wages they earn.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We have to work here for our whole lives because we borrowed money from the kiln owner. And we have nothing to reduce the debt.

(voice-over): A cycle they say they're trapped in where they have to borrow more just for basics, when the debt grows some become desperate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): All my children started working since they were very small like this one. They all have to work. This little one helps to carry the bricks.

(voice-over): We meet whole families who say everyone must pitch in. Adults who tells us, they'll never pay off that they owe, they fear, they'll pass it on.

Alexandra Field, CNN, Phnom Penh. (END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Well, tomorrow, the CNN Freedom Project will introduce you to a young survivor of child labor of Cambodian brick kilns, take a look.


FIELD (voice-over): Pew Chan Teng (ph) is 16 and only in first grade. But his teachers believe in him. He has done harder work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): When I was 11, I started working at the brick kiln. It was very difficult. I loaded bricks on the cart and then I pull the cart from the brick to dry. But one day, when I was putting clay in machine I slipped and arm got caught in the engine.

(voice-over): Chan Teng (ph) was 14. And his mother says, she was in debt to a brick factory owner. The whole family was making bricks to pay it off.


[01:49:39] VAUSE: And we'll have much more on this story as well as the problem on child labor at Cambodia's brick factories, that's tomorrow only on CNN. We will be right back in just a moment.


SOARES: Well, it turns out your vacuum could be doing more than just sweeping up dust bunnies. High end models of the Roomba robotic vacuum are also creating a detailed floor mat of your home.

VAUSE: Yes. Dust isn't the only thing Roobie (ph) the robot is sucking up alone. The company's CEO wants to tell all that data, the big tech companies like Google, Amazon or Apple. Don't worry he says, it's just to make your home a better place. Some might agree, some concerns about privacy and other legal issues.

SOARES: Now, the idea of artificial intelligence had long been a subject of science fictions, you know.

VAUSE: Terminator movie filmed it all out for a Sky net, who come alive, we get stealth weather robots will come, they'll all be destroyed. Well, maybe who say they're going up.

Anyway the debate over artificial intelligence whether it's good, whether it's bad, it's actually playing out in real life. It's being two of the biggest names in tech against each other SpaceX founder, Elon Musk recently won that A.I. could friend to mankind.


ELON MUSK, FOUNDER AND CEO, SPACEX: I think people should be really concerned about it. I keep sounding the alarm bell but, you know, until people see like robots going down the street killing people like, they don't know how to react. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg instead believes artificial intelligence could be a force to go. Take a listen.


MARK ZUCKERBERG, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, FACEBOOK: With A.I. especially, I'm really optimistic and I think that people who are naysayers and kind of try to drum up these doomsday scenarios are -- I just -- I don't understand it. I think it's really negative. And in some ways I actually think it's pretty irresponsible.


VAUSE: Musk, shout back with the tweet saying, I've talked to Mark about this. His understanding of the subject is limited."

SOARES: Well, joining us now to discuss this Richard Korf, the professor of computer science at the University of California, Los Angeles. Richard this is a very public spot, a very intelligent one at two. Let me get your take who's side are you on, Mark Zuckerberg's or Musk's?

RICHARD KORF, COMPUTER SCIENCE PROFESSOR, UCLA: I'm probably not on either person side. I think they both have points to be made. I'm probably closer to Zuckerberg, and more of an optimist. Any new technology is going to have enormous benefits. It's also going to have enormous detriments. And we need to pay attention to both of those.

VAUSE: OK. Let's just back a little bit because when we're talking about artificial intelligence, you know, are we talking about like Hal in Space Odyssey 2001? Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open the pod bay door, Hal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.


VAUSE: Basically the machines are going to kill us all. And take over the world. Are talking about like an algorithm that will make have been a latte.

KORF: I think we're going to, I don't think Hal is where we're going to see I.A. in that particular form. But I think we're going to see artificial intelligence embedded and probably one of my favorite example is self-driving cars. And this is something that's absolutely going to come. It's going to come the next five or 10 years.

And there is enormous benefit to such a thing. It's an A.I. over million people, you know, are killed than motor vehicle accidents. Ninety percent of motor vehicle accidents are caused by human error. Those kinds of errors most of them are not going to be made by machines. And so, the potential benefit of that one certainly is we're going to have drastically reduce fatalities and casualties on the road. But also we're going to have tremendous benefits in terms of fuel economy, road congestion, self-driving cars can be closer together both sideways --

[01:55:02] VAUSE: Then millions of people will lose a job.

KORF: People looses jobs has happened in the industrial evolution. We also need to worry about these technologies being safe with any new technology, you have to worry about. This is a computer technology. You need to worry about things being correct. You need to worry about bugs. There's going to be bugs in these things. A bug in your computer which cause your machine to crash, cause the machine to crash, it may loose some data or something.

A bug in a self-driving car or an 18 wheel truck can be much bigger deal. Security is also very important.


KORF: The self driving car manufacturer like Tesla would like to be able to download new versions of their software into all of their cars on the road.

A hacker or malicious hacker would like to be able to download their own version of this, OK, in enormous numbers of vehicles. And so we need to worry about -- we need to worry about correctness. We need to worry about security. And there's going to be trade offs cost and benefits both.

SOARES: Richard when I was listening to both of their sides Zuckerberg and Musk, I was is trying to decide which side I would agree with, you know, would that be can slightly more alarmed doomsday scenario or more with Zuckerberg's optimistic. In many ways, you pointed that they're both right. But, you know, Zuckerberg is slightly more open and more entrepreneurial where Musk is looking further ahead.

So, is one just a long term short plan is to how they're seeing it. In part, they both -- are they both right in that regard?

KORF: I think they're both right to some extent. I mean I would say that neither of them or A.I. professionals so they are not the top experts in the field, they're both involved in, they both know a lot about it. But they are not people working it. People who are working it, my colleagues are not as concerned. I think there's a perception on the part of the public when Elon Musk talks about or Steven Hawking talks about robots taking over the world and destroying. There's some now. It could have become conscious and they're going to maliciously on their own decide to take over the world. And I think it's very unlikely.

SOARES: Yes. I was going to say, it's very unlikely. But we just don't know that.

KORF: We don't know for sure.


KORF: Maybe they'll keep us as pets if we're lucky.

VAUSE: Richard if you talk about artificial intelligence are the threat, are we greater threat now from like real life unintelligence and the decisions that may, you know, governments and leaders are making for the planet much more so that artificial intelligence.

KORF: There's lot of things that I worry about a lot more than an A.I. I worry about nuclear weapons. I worry about global warming. There's lots of problems. And, you know, we're just used to fallibility. We're used to car crashes. We're used to 35,000 people in United States over a million year being killed. And I tell my students, I said, I tell them, your kids are going to look at you and they're going to say seriously, you let random people who are half asleep, who are drunk operate one ton machine at 70 miles an hour within a few feet of each other, what were you thinking. What were you thinking?

VAUSE: Professor, good to see you.

SOARES: Thank you very much.

KORF: Thanks for having me.

SOARES: You're having watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm Isa Soares.

VAUSE: I'm John Vause. A lot more news after a very short break.