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Wolf

Witness: Russian "Adoptions" are Code for "Sanctions"; Trump Threatens to Veto a Veto-Proof Russia Sanctions Bill; Putin Warns of Retaliation for New U.S. Sanctions; Lindsey Graham Warns Trump Against Firing Sessions; Joint Chief Surprised by Trump's Transgender Ban in All Military; Tension Mounts on Korean Peninsula 64 Years after Armistice Begins; White House Daily Briefing Soon. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired July 27, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:30:00] WILLIAM BROWDER, AMERICAN BUSINESSMAN: When the Magnitsky Act was passed, Putin retaliated by banning the adoption of Russian orphans.

SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, (D-RI), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: And the Magnitsky Act is tied to sanctions, is it not?

BROWDER: Indeed. So they weren't talking --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITEHOUSE: They're talking about adoption.

BROWDER: You're not talking about adoption. Nobody was talking about adoption.

WHITEHOUSE: Nobody was talking about children?

BROWDER: Nobody was talking about adoption. They were talking about repeal of sanctions so that Russian torturers and murderers could freely travel and keep their money in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Let me bring in senior congressional reporter, Manu Raju, from Capitol Hill.

Manu, that was Bill Browder, American businessman, who was the force behind the Magnitsky Act on human rights. What else came out of this dramatic testimony?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: It was a rather dramatic moment on Capitol Hill earlier today. Browder saying that it was a, quote, "major ask" for Natalia Veselnitskaya, who is the Russia lawyer, who asked for that Trump Tower meeting with Donald Trump Jr, Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort. That is was a major ask for the Russians to seek the repeal of that Magnitsky Act of sanctions enacted by the United States in 2012. He said that he believes that they probably wanted something in return. Now, he did not have direct evidence of anything that they wanted, but said he was very familiar with Russian efforts, Russian intelligence, and this is exactly the kind of thing that they tend to do. He said with 100 percent certainty, the Russian intelligence knew about this meeting at Trump Tower in advance of it happening.

Now, after this testimony, I had a chance to talk with Senator Lindsey Graham, who sits on that committee, and questioned Bill Browder. I said, do you think the Trump team was naive in taking this meeting? He said, perhaps they were naive. And he also said that this needs to be investigated further because he's skeptical that this was the only contact that occurred between the Russians and Donald Trump Jr.

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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: It's also hard for me to believe that once the Trump campaign expressed a desire to get help, maybe later in the summer would be better, that meeting was one and done. That contact came from a person that Mr. Browder said should have been registered as a Russian agent, the Russian female lawyer. The likelihood that that was the last contact needs to be looked into because the Trump campaign expressed a desire to be helped.

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RAJU: And now there were also rather strong moments from -- sound from Lindsey Graham who warned President Trump rather starkly not to fire Jeff Sessions and not to take steps to fire Bob Mueller, saying there would be, quote, "holy hell" to pay if that happened. Even saying that, quote, "democracy would be turned upside-down," if the president took steps to fire Bob Mueller. Clearly, this hearing today raising questions for Senator Graham and others to look into that Trump Tower meeting -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Yes, very strong words, indeed, from Lindsey Graham.

You also had a chance, Manu, to speak with Senator Chuck Grassley, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. What did he tell you?

RAJU: Indeed, I talked to him about Jeff Sessions, the attorney general, and about concerns on Capitol Hill that Trump may fire Jeff Sessions, something the president himself has not ruled out. Chuck Grassley controls the Judiciary Committee, who is in charge of any nomination hearing for attorney general, said he agenda is, quote, "full" for the year. Meaning he is not ready to move forward on any successor to Jeff Sessions. A very stark warning to the White House that if President Trump were. Indeed. to fire Sessions, that he would not move on a successor this year.

So that shows you, Wolf, that even if President Trump wants to name someone, the Senate, controlled by his own party, is not ready to act on a successor -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Attorney General Sessions, a former Republican Senator from Alabama, popular among his fellow Republican Senators.

Manu, thank very much. Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Meanwhile, White House communications director, Anthony Scaramucci,

tells CNN the president might veto a Russia sanctions bill passed overwhelmingly by the House and Senate. The popular bipartisan legislation would not only hit Russia with new sanctions but also give Congress the authority to block the president from lifting those sanctions.

But listen to Scaramucci earlier today on CNN.

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ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR (via telephone): Keep looking at these it sanctions right now. He may decide to veto the sanctions and --

(CROSSTALK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, NEW DAY: Why?

SCARAMUCCI: -- and be tougher on the Russians and Congress.

CUOMO: You think because if he vetoes it, it's because he wants something tougher than the sanctions bill?

(CROSSTALK)

SCARAMUCCI: He may sign the sanctions, exactly the way they are. Or he may veto the sanctions and negotiate an even tougher deal against the Russians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Let's get perspective from Republican Congressman Mike Coffman, of Colorado, a U.S. Army and Marine veteran and serves on the Armed Services and Veterans Affairs Committees.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

REP. MIKE COFFMAN, (R), COLORADO: Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: Like almost everyone else in the House and Senate, you strongly support this sanctions bill. It was passed, as I said, overwhelmingly in the House, 419-3, 92-2 in the Senate. If the president were to veto the bill I assume you and your colleagues would quickly override that veto?

[13:35:10] COFFMAN: We absolutely would. I don't think there's a question about that, if the president would try and do that. I was surprised about the comment about tougher sanctions. If the president certainly wants to add on to those sanctions, he certainly can.

BLITZER: Did that make any sense what Scaramucci said that the president might veto an order to negotiate tougher sanctions against Russia? Do you understand what he's suggesting here?

COFFMAN: No, I don't. I don't understand. It makes absolutely no sense. From what the president -- he wants tougher sanctions, we should be tougher than these sanctions on Russia and North Korea as on Iran. And the president's free to add on to these sanctions that Congress has just overwhelmingly passed.

BLITZER: Let's move on to other sensitive issues now. As a veteran, member of the Armed Services Committee, let me ask you about the president's newly announced ban on transgender servicemembers. Three defense officials now tell CNN that members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, they were completely blindsided by the president's announcement on Twitter yesterday. Was the Armed Services Committee, your committee, aware of this ban by the president was coming?

COFFMAN: No. Absolutely not. I'm the chairman of the Military Personnel Subcommittee and so I was looking forward to review President Mattis - sorry -- what Secretary Mattis had already started on the transgender issue to see if any transgender personnel can continue serving in the United States military. So he had started, on July 1st, a six-month review, comprehensive review. I trust General Mattis. Having served in the United States Marine Corps, he was an extraordinary general, a leader in our military. And so I know whatever decision he would come out with at the end of this process, that he'd started, would be for the good order and discipline of the United States military, as well as not compromising combat effectiveness of our armed forces.

BLITZER: Extraordinary, in addition to getting a heads up, the chief of staff of the Army, General Mark Milley, said, moments ago, he still hasn't received guidance from the president, the commander-in-chief, from the White House or from anyone else about this new ban. Listen to what Generally Millie just said.

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GEN. MARK MILLEY, CHIEF OF STAFF, U.S. ARMY: I've yet to receive implementation guides, directives, from the Department of Defense, General Mattis. And we grow up and learn to obey the chain of command, and my chain of are command is secretary of the Army and secretary of defense and the president. Right? So we will work through the implementation guidance when we get it.

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BLITZER: General Joseph Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, he said in a statement to his personnel, "Meantime, we will continue to treat all of our personnel with respect. As importantly, given the current fight and the challenges we face, we will all remain focused on accomplishing our assigned missions."

Are you concerned that the president made this announcement, a major policy decision via Twitter, seemingly with zero notice or preparation?

COFFMAN: Oh, I think it's very disappointing. You know, to give a major policy directive through a tweet to the leaders of our military, who, by all accounts, were not consulted prior to the president making the decision. The president certainly has the authority to make the decision. I believe that the president, as a member of the House Armed Services Committee, a combat war veteran, should have allowed the general to finish the process that the president was well aware was underway. So it is disappointing. But the Department of Defense is going to have to deal with it. It's far more extensive, what the president is asking for, than was being debated in the Congress, in terms of not simply whether or not these operations, these operations, sex reassignment operations should take place at taxpayers' expense. If deemed medically necessary by the military, in allowing transgender personnel to serve, it went into simply they cannot serve at all in any capacity. I mean, so -- so the military has to now decide how to process this information in terms of, how are these people going to be discharged from the United States military? Under what circumstances? Is it other than honorable? Is it an honorable discharge? How long is this process going to take? I mean, this is major policy by tweet.

[13:40:05] BLITZER: Yes. A lot of criticism of the president for that tweet yesterday.

Congressman Mike Coffman, a Republican from Colorado. Congressman, thanks for joining us.

COFFMAN: Thank you for having me.

BLITZER: Up next, I'll joined by Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton, of Massachusetts, also a veteran, a member of the House Armed Services Committee. And we'll talk about this plan by the president to ban transgender Americans from serving in the U.S. military. We have other issues to discuss with him as well.

And once again, we're only moments away from the White House press briefing. There you see live pictures coming in. Live coverage. Sarah Huckabee Sanders getting prepared to answer reporters' questions. Stay with us.

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[13:44:53] BLITZER: Welcome back. Live pictures of once again from the White House. Sarah Huckabee Sanders, White House press secretary, will start taking questions from reporters very soon. We'll provide live coverage of that as soon as the briefing begins.

As we await that, let's get to other important news. Russian President Vladimir Putin is warning the United States, today, saying he will be forced to retaliate against new sanctions that could soon be approved by the U.S. Senate.

Joining us from Capitol Hill, Massachusetts Congressman Seth Moulton, a Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

REP. SETH MOULTON, (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Happy to be back, Wolf.

BLITZER: President Putin says any news sanctions would be, in his words, "illegal." He says they're an attempt to provoke Russia. You, like almost everyone else in the House and Senate, virtually unanimously voted for these new sanctions. What do you say to Putin's threat?

MOULTON: That we don't care, Mr. Putin. We're going to stop you from meddling in our democracy, in our elections, and these sanctions are just a start.

BLITZER: The White House communications director, Anthony Scaramucci, this morning on CNN, says President Trump presumably could still veto the sanctions bill. As I said, it got nearly unanimous support in the House and the Senate. What message would it send, though? Even if you decided to override the veto, presumably, you would -- what message would it send to Congress and the world, if the president were to veto this legislation?

MOULTON: Well, it would send the same message Mr. Trump has sent a lot of times since he got elected, which is he's more interested in the national security of Russia than the national security of the United States. He's repeatedly denied Russia's involvement in our elections. He's been cozying up to Putin however he can, both during his campaign and now in the administration. But Congress is finally ready to stand up and say, we've had enough, Mr. President, we're going to stand up for our country and our national security, and that's what this sanctions bill is all about.

BLITZER: We heard some pretty dramatic testimony today involving Donald Trump Jr and his meeting a year-plus- ago at Trump Tower, New York, with some Russians, a Russian attorney and others, and President Putin's plan to create additional chaos in the American elections. President Trump still has serious problems with Special Counsel Robert Mueller, with the Attorney General Jeff Sessions. If he were, for example, to fire Robert Mueller, what, if any, recourse would you and other members of the House of Representatives have?

MOULTON: Well, we would have to do something to stop this, because Washington is already in chaos under Republican leadership, but that would be practically cataclysmic to our democracy. The truth is obvious, I think. Trump is trying to cover something up. He is obviously scared about what Mr. Mueller is going to find. He's scared about what his connections are to Vladimir Putin. What we need to do, get to the bottom of it so we can move on to the important work we should be doing for the American people. And that's why I continue my call for an independent bipartisan commission to find out the truth of what's gone on between the Trump campaign, the Trump administration, and Russia. Put a stop to it and let's do the things that the president was elected on. Get an infrastructure bill. Talk about jobs. Actually, work to improve health care in a bipartisan way rather than take it away from millions of Americans.

(CROSSTALK)

MOULTON: That's what we should be doing.

BLITZER: Congressman, you don't think that Robert Mueller, the special counsel, plus the various committees in the House and Senate investigating, could come to the bottom and find out what exactly happened? MOULTON: I think it's an important part of the puzzle. But it's

important to understand that the committees in the House and Senate that are investigating this, this is primarily the Intelligence Committees, their findings will be classified. The interrogations or whatever you call it, the hearing with interviews, shall we say, with Mr. Kushner, was entirely classified. That was not on the record. I think the American people deserve to know what's gone other here. We all need to understand what we need to do to prevent it in the future. We ought to have a 9/11-style independent bipartisan commission. This is part of our national security, it's part of a national security issue, that shouldn't divide Republicans and Democrats.

BLITZER: Standing by to hear from the White House press secretary. A briefing coming up.

If you were a reporter, Congressman, sitting in that front row, what question would you ask?

MOULTON: Well, the first thing I would ask is, why is the president, as commander-in-chief, again sending out tweets that completely contradict his own secretary of defense and, frankly, put our national security at risk. Trying to kick out a whole bunch of people from the military who volunteered to put their lives on the line for the country, something far more than the president himself ever did. He sought five deferments to avoid service in the Vietnam War, as we know. That's terrible for our troops, terrible for military morale. How is it that the president, as commander-in-chief, can't even get on the same page as his own secretary of defense.

[13:50:09] BLITZER: Congressman Seth Moulton, thanks for joining us.

MOULTON: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: We're once again minutes away from the start of that briefing with the press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders. We'll have live coverage.

Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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BLITZER: Today marks 64 years since the signing of the armistice that paused the Korean War. And since there was no peace treaty, technically, the war has never ended.

Tensions on the Korean peninsula, they're mounting right now not only because of the North's growing threat to strike the U.S. with a nuclear warhead but also its silence to South Korea's offer to hold military talks.

CNN's Will Ripley has the story from the Korean Demilitarized Zone -- Will?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this area near the Demilitarized Zone that separates North and South Korea continues to be a potentially dangerous flash point between the two countries. Both sides have huge standing armies with a lot of weapons pointed at each other and constant intelligence and surveillance. We have seen military patrols up and down the 38th parallel here. And we know that there are military checkpoints both on the north side and south side as well.

This area where I'm standing used to be a point of transportation between North and South Korea. But that Freedom Bridge there has been sealed off for a number of years. And even though civilians are not allowed in this area, it is very heavily fortified with barbed wire fences, sensors, a lot of equipment to make sure that there is no infiltration happening from the North side to the South and vice versa.

All of this unfolding on a very important day on the Korean peninsula. The 27th of July marks the signing of the armistice that ended the fighting of the Korean War, even though the North and the South are still technically at war more than 60 years later.

Now, North Korea calls this their victory day. And in the past, we have seen huge celebrations, shows of force, from the northern side, whether it be military parades or weapons tests. We haven't seen anything like that so far.

We know that North Korea, within the last day or so, tested the components for a submarine-launched ballistic missile. And we also know from intelligence reports that heavy machinery has been rolling into a North Korean launch site that could be used to put a ballistic missile into the air. Remember, North Korea launched an ICBM on the Fourth of July. There's a lot of concern that they could do that again as they continue to move closer to their goal of developing the kind of weapon that could carry a nuclear warhead to the mainland United States, a weapon that State Department officials say could be in the possession of North Korea's leader, Kim Jong-Un, by early 2018, much sooner than many analysts predicted, just underscoring the continuing dangerous situation here along the DMZ -- Wolf?

[13:55:39] BLITZER: Very dangerous, indeed.

Will Ripley joining us. Will, thanks very much.

Once again, to our viewers here in the United States and around the world, we're standing by for the White House press briefing. We'll have live coverage of that, all the coverage of the day's important news.

Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.

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