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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Manhunt for Suspected Missouri Cop Killer; Did Teen Cheerleader Kill, Bury Baby?; Two Kids Die in Hot Car as Mom Smokes Pot; Death by Text; Exorcism or Bizarre Defense?; Dalia Dippolito Twist; CNN Heroes; The Hunt With John Walsh. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired August 07, 2017 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[20:00:00] JEAN CASAREZ, HLN HOST (voice-over): A former high school cheerleader charged with killing her newborn baby and burying it in her

back yard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do believe that this occurred all within a few-hour period.

CASAREZ: Prosecutors say the teen gave birth just days after her prom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened, and how she disposed of the body.

CASAREZ: Now she`s charged with murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In her mind, this was not something that was going to be accepted.

CASAREZ: Why she`s sitting at home instead of behind bars.

Two small children die in a hot car, but police say it was no accident. They say the mother left the toddlers inside on a sweltering hot day to

teach one of them a lesson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn`t believe it. That`s -- that`s not Rachel.

CASAREZ: A woman who wanted an exorcism to rid her house of evil spirits.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know if it was hallucination or what.

CASAREZ: Is now charged with beheading her ex`s mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I almost passed out when I was told that she was decapitated.

CASAREZ: Now a judge wants mental health experts to decide if she`s able to understand the charges against her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something with her has been off for several, several months now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to be out of here already.

CASAREZ: That`s apparently Dalia Dippolito`s boyfriend and possibly her baby`s daddy. And it`s this call...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)

CASAREZ: Prosecutors are using to try and keep her behind bars.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

CASAREZ: While she appeals her murder-for-hire conviction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) I love you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do, too. Have a good night.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez in for Ashleigh Banfield. Thank you so much for joining us.

We do have some breaking news tonight on PRIMETIME JUSTICE. There is a manhunt going on right now for an accused cop killer in Missouri.

Investigators say Ian McCarthy shot and killed an officer during a traffic stop in Clinton. That`s about an hour and change southeast of Kansas City.

Police are saying tonight that shortly after pulling McCarthy over, the man got out of his SUV and opened fire, killing Officer Gary Michael, 37 years

old, who had only been with department for less than a year. McCarthy is now charged with murder, and investigators just need to find him. But what

caused this seemingly unprovoked attack?

Dia Wall is a reporter for CNN affiliate KSHB. She joins us tonight from Clinton, Missouri. Dia...

(CROSSTALK)

CASAREZ: ... what happened?

DIA WALL KSHB: ... the community here in Clinton, Missouri, is still in shock. You can see memorials cropping up throughout this town. This is

actually where Officer Gary Michael grew up. And he came back here because his brother, Chris, said he had a heart of service.

As you can imagine, his family is still struggling to deal with the reality of what happened. They said they never thought it would happen in a small

town like Clinton, but yet it did.

As you mentioned, there is an active search right now for Ian McCarthy, the suspect in this shooting. We`ve seen multiple agencies here, lots of local

sheriff`s departments pitching in to give Clinton, Missouri, police department a little bit of a break so they can come to terms with what`s

happened here.

And there was a search at a nearby abandoned school not too long ago, just within the hour, but nothing turned up there. So right now, the search is

still on, and the community here in Clinton is still hurting after the death of Officer Gary Michael.

CASAREZ: All right, Dia, thank you.

Let`s show everybody that picture because this is the suspect, the person that police do believe shot and killed this officer, Gary Michael, last

night. There -- if you`ve seen anyone that looks like this or even know him, authorities tonight want to hear from you because they are saying this

man is armed and dangerous.

Joining us tonight is Captain John Hotz. He is the director of public information for the Missouri State Highway Patrol. He joins us from

Jefferson City, Missouri. Thank you so much, Captain.

I know you`re very busy tonight, but we want to do what we can to help and find this person who you say shot and killed Officer Gary Michael last

night. Now, it is believed that after he allegedly shot the officer, the officer fired back. Do you think this man was hit at all? Do you think he

is injured?

CAPT. JOHN HOTZ, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: We don`t know if he was injured. We know that Officer Michael did, in fact, return fire. We are

still trying to determine if he was hit. Of course, we have been searching all day, looking for -- looking at areas that he has associated with in the

past to see if we can locate him. And we continue to do that even tonight and throughout the evening hours.

CASAREZ: I`m sure you have. And you`ve put up checkpoints throughout the Clinton area. Do you believe he`s still in Clinton or do you think he

hopped a bus or got on the interstate in some way to get away from that area?

[20:05:10]HOTZ: We don`t know, unfortunately. We don`t have information as far as where he is exactly. So we are focusing on that area until we

get information, of course, that he may be in a different location. So right now, the Clinton area is the one that we are focusing on the most.

CASAREZ: Right. Now, if people have seen him, or if they know where he is or have any information, what do you want them to do tonight?

HOTZ: We want them to call their local law enforcement agency by calling 911, or they can contact the Missouri State Highway patrol via cellular

phone at star 55. We do ask that you don`t try to make contact with McCarthy. We do consider him to be armed and dangerous.

CASAREZ: Now, I think what a lot of people are wondering is, this appeared to be what you`re saying was a routine traffic stop, possibly a

registration that wasn`t current. So officer pulls him over, and from what we understand, he immediately allegedly got out of the car and shot and

killed the officer?

HOTZ: Very -- the investigation, of course, is in a very early stage and I can`t talk about it a lot, but it was a traffic stop and the suspect did

fire the weapon toward the officer, striking the officer fatally. Then, again, the officer was able to return fire. Beyond that, though, we`re

still putting those pieces together in the investigation.

CASAREZ: Now, we do know the vehicle he was in, but that really isn`t of any value unless someone knows his vehicle around town, a 2008 Dodge Nitro.

But the fact is that he drove away at a high rate of speed, got in an accident, and actually got out of the vehicle and ran. So you have this

vehicle in custody now, correct?

HOTZ: That is correct. The vehicle -- we do have the vehicle, and of course, it is being processed along with the rest of the -- the rest of the

crime scene.

CASAREZ: So was that gun in the vehicle that he used allegedly to shoot and kill the officer?

HOTZ: I can`t talk about the specifics of that. Of course, the investigation is still very early, and we can`t talk about a lot of those

specifics.

CASAREZ: But you do believe he`s armed and dangerous?

HOTZ: We certainly consider that. Any time you engage a law enforcement officer and fatally injure him with a weapon, we have to consider that

person to be armed and dangerous.

CASAREZ: Have you found any surveillance video at all that can be of value as to what he was wearing?. What was he wearing that you know of at this

moment, about 24 hours ago?

HOTZ: I don`t have that information to release to you. Again, we are very early in the investigation and our division (INAUDIBLE) patrol (ph) is

looking into any possible, you know, surveillance videos that we might be able to find or any other information or any witnesses or anybody that may

come forward that has information on the suspect.

CASAREZ: All right. Well, this is serious because not only does the family of Gary Michael want justice, but other people are in peril. And we

do have an interview from the brother of the victim. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MICHAEL, BROTHER OF VICTIM: Our faith, our love for each other, right -- we got a lot of great memories. Even though we`ve had a

tremendous amount of tears today, a little bit of anger, we`ve had some laughs, too, because, you know, he was -- he was our life. And he just had

a great heart about him. And so when you start going through pictures and other people, you know, maybe post things about him, you just -- you can`t

but help but smile and be proud of him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And Officer Gary Michael was 37 years old. He`s married. He has step-children.

Captain, I do want to ask you, if he would be listening tonight, watching somewhere, hiding out, what do you want to say to Ian McCarthy?

HOTZ: Without a doubt, turn yourself in. No need for anybody else to get injured during the course of this investigation. We`re prepared to follow

the investigation through and to make the arrest, but it`s up to him. He can do so. He can end this peacefully. And that`s what I would recommend

that he do.

CASAREZ: And I would think your officers are going to be working all through the night tonight?

HOTZ: Absolutely. We`ve got -- again, we`ll have a heavier than normal presence in the area. There`s a lot of other agencies there, county

sheriff`s department, Clinton police department, as well as our investigators. And we have a tactical team in the area, as well.

CASAREZ: All right, Captain. Good luck. You`ve got a lot of work tonight. Thank you so much for joining us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

CASAREZ: And to Ohio, where a teenage cheerleader is facing charges she not only allegedly killed but they are saying burned and buried her own

newborn in the back yard. And prosecutors say Brooke Skylar (ph) Richardson did it just days after her senior prom.

[20:10:00]Investigators say they got a tip and they found the newborn`s remains in July but believe the 18-year-old committed the acts back in May.

Take a listen to what the district attorney believes motivated Skylar (ph) to commit murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID FORNSHELL, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, WARREN COUNTY, OHIO: What I will tell you is, is that based on the evidence that we have, we do believe that this

occurred all within a few-hour period.

Knowing is a different situation than knowing after the fact what happened and how she disposed of the body and failing to report that. And so those

are different things. My personal opinion, based on the evidence, as to motive is that in her mind, this was not something that was going to be

accepted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Melissa Neeley is an anchor and reporter for 700 WLW radio. She joins us tonight from Cincinnati.

Let`s just start from the beginning. What do we know at this point?

MELISSA NEELEY, 700 WLW: Well, initially, prosecutors thought that the baby was stillborn because her physician had reported to them that there

might be a stillborn incident. So that`s how this whole case got rolling, was a report from her physician. Then later, after tests, they found out

that that wasn`t the case, that they believed that the baby had been alive, born alive, and that she killed the baby, then burned the baby and then

buried the baby in her back yard.

CASAREZ: Now, they`re saying that they believe that the baby was buried May 6th or 7th. How do they even know that date? She hasn`t confessed.

NEELEY: No, she hasn`t confessed. As far as I know, it`s from forensics tests that they`ve done so far. However, they are still doing tests and so

we are not clear on the entire span of evidence that they have. And plus, they are keeping everything very tight-lipped and very closed at this time,

so we are not sure of all of the forensic evidence that they have.

CASAREZ: Now, it was a couple weeks ago they actually found the remains in the back yard of this young woman, who just graduated from high school, and

by the way, is just about to begin -- was just about to begin at the University of Cincinnati. How did they find those remains? There was a

tip, wasn`t there?

NEELEY: That`s right. Her OB-GYN knew that she was pregnant. I mean, it wasn`t a secret that she was pregnant. She had gone to her prom just two

days before the baby was born in May, and so they knew -- it was not a secret locally that she had been pregnant.

So I think she was at the end of her term and her doctor knew that there was a situation where the baby was either missing or he knew that the baby

was dead or -- but that was turned in to police, and then they started searching the Richardsons` home and that`s been they found the evidence of

the buried corpse in the back yard.

CASAREZ: All right, Danny Cevallos, the prosecutor seemed to be very sympathetic to me in what he said, that outward appearances, she didn`t

think the child would be accepted. But if it`s true, what we`re hearing, that everyone knew she was pregnant, her people, people in her community --

I don`t know. I mean...

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, there`s not much to know except that if I`m the prosecutor in this case, I`m looking at the fact that she

was -- everyone knew she was pregnant. Everyone knew there would be a baby coming.

CASAREZ: Yes.

CEVALLOS: And now the baby disappears. And my major challenge is proving whether or not the child was alive when born. And believe it or not, there

is forensic evidence available to tell us that, including the diameter of the chest, the lungs, if they`re hard or spongy, a number of different ways

to tell. But it really depends on the condition of the remains. So it is a challenge. But be not fooled into thinking that prosecutors cannot win a

case if they don`t know for sure what the cause of death is. Sometimes prosecutors can win a case without even a body.

CASAREZ: But Rachel Kugel...

RACHEL KUGEL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.

CASAREZ: ... not having a cause of death...

KUGEL: Big problem.

CASAREZ: ... I think juries don`t want to convict...

KUGEL: Yes, and I think especially when you`re dealing with a mother and a baby because that is -- the idea of it is so horrific that juries want to

find a way that that isn`t true. They`re looking for that possibility.

And I think there`s so many possible forensic problems. I mean, first of all, the decomposition -- they`re never going to know what caused the

death. They`re never going to -- I don`t believe they`re ever going to know whether the baby was alive or not, and be able to actually prove it.

I think it`s going to be too difficult at this point.

And I think they need to look at -- you know, this person is a child herself. I think they need to look at, you know, whether there were other

family members that might have also played some role.

CEVALLOS: Sometimes prosecutors benefit from less evidence. With a missing body, they can create a narrative, a sort of fiction, a fantasy

that the jurors buy into. There`s no body, there`s no evidence because the defendant got rid of it, and now you can punish her.

CASAREZ: But here`s the problem. The problem is also, someone can benefit when they go to the lengths of burning the body and burying the body and

the decomposition. And I mean, we remember in Caylee and Casey Anthony...

[20:15:12]CEVALLOS: Exactly.

CASAREZ: Caylee Anthony. I mean, the decomposition -- of course, it was six months, it was nine months, much longer. But the decomposition, the

carrying away by animals just allowed so much benefit to...

CEVALLOS: However...

CASAREZ: ... Casey.

CEVALLOS: ... Casey Anthony`s case got better for Casey Anthony after they found the body because prior to that, it was a case of her baby`s missing,

what a horrible mother. Once you found the body, that yields evidence that a defense attorney can use. And we all know what happened in that case.

That was an acquittal.

CASAREZ: Right. Right. Melissa, let me ask you, what do we know about her? I mean, she was a member of the National Honor Society, right?

NEELEY: That`s right. She was a cheerleader. Like you pointed out earlier, she was getting ready to go to the University of Cincinnati, which

is a very prestigious school in this area. So she was a very well rounded, gifted young lady.

One thing that is puzzling in this case is that Ohio does have a safe haven law. And so if in a case that the mother doesn`t want to keep the baby, it

is legal in the state of Ohio for someone to turn that child in within 30 days of its birth to a law enforcement official or a medical authority.

CASAREZ: That`s interesting. Rachel, should we have sympathy for her, empathy at all?

KUGEL: Well, I mean, I think that that`s ultimately what they`re going to go for. And not only that, it`s not just about sympathy. It`s also about

evidence. And I think they`re going to be lacking a lot of it in this case and that`s going to bring doubt.

CASAREZ: But -- but Danny, she intentionally did some acts here.

CEVALLOS: Exactly. And if I`m a prosecutor...

CASAREZ: Three of them.

CEVALLOS: ... I spend a lot of time, maybe even more than I do on the forensics on the burning, the destroying of evidence, the destroying of

this precious baby that was in her womb just maybe hours or even a day or so or however long before.

KUGEL: But I don`t have the proof that that`s her...

CEVALLOS: We don`t know how long...

KUGEL: ... that she`s the one that did that.

CEVALLOS: We don`t know how -- I`ve seen it before. We don`t know how long, but she clearly...

CASAREZ: Affirmative act.

CEVALLOS: ... had something to do -- what mother would let this baby out of her sight? Look, that argument didn`t work in Casey Anthony, but it

might work with another jury.

CASAREZ: All right.

Two young children found dead in a hot car. You`ve heard it before. Texas -- their mother allegedly says they weren`t listening to her so she was

trying to teach them a lesson? Now she is facing charges and possibly the rest of her life in prison.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:21:52]CASAREZ: It all began with a call to 911 just outside of Ft. Worth, Texas. Cynthia Randolph told police she had found her two young

children unresponsive in her car. When officers arrived, Randolph told them the children had been playing on the porch when she last saw them.

And when she looked back outside after doing some laundry for 20 to 30 minutes, little Julia (ph) and Cavanaugh (ph) were gone. Randolph claims

she found them in her vehicle 30 minutes later.

That`s at least what she said at first. But she apparently changed her tune in her final police interview. It was then, police say, she admitted

to intentionally leaving the 1-year-old and 2-year-old in the car to teach them a lesson. According to police, Randolph went inside to smoke some pot

and take a nap, and she didn`t find them for at least two hours. The temperature that day in Texas, a scorching 96 degrees.

Jeffrey Boney is an associate editor for "The Houston Forward Times." He joins us tonight from Houston. All right, Jeffrey, I want to go through

this from the beginning because there are several stories. So 911 is called. Do we know who called 911?

JEFFREY BONEY, "HOUSTON FORWARD TIMES" (via telephone): Yes, Jean. Actually, Cynthia Randolph called 911 after finding her kids or allegedly

finding her kids in the car unresponsive.

CASAREZ: OK. So she calls 911. Police come. What`s the first story she tells them?

BONEY: Well, you know, first thing she says is that she was doing chores, folding laundry, watching TV when she looked around and found the kids

nowhere to be found, and of course, they took off. In that version, she said she searched the property for some time before she found the kids

locked inside of her vehicle, which they presumably had done themselves and locked themselves inside.

CASAREZ: Right. And also her cell phone and her keys, I believe, she had left in the car. Now...

BONEY: Right. She said that her keys and her cell phone were there.

CASAREZ: Yes. And in today`s day and age, I mean, most of us, when we lose our phone, we panic. We have to find our phone right away. So that

was the first version, OK? So then the Texas Rangers get involved, the Department of Justice within Texas get involved. What`s the next version

she gives?

BONEY: Well, she then tells them that after investigative -- you know, the investigative process that she actually intentionally left the children in

the car to teach, practically (sic) her young 2-year-old daughter, Juliette (ph), a lesson.

CASAREZ: Oh! Because the daughter didn`t want to come out of the car when she said come out of the car.

BONEY: Right.

CASAREZ: So she shut the door and going to teach them a lesson at 96 degrees.

I want to bring in right now Joseph Scott Morgan. He`s a certified death investigator or and a professor of forensics at Jacksonville State

University and he does join us from Jacksonville tonight.

[20:25:00]I want everybody to see, as you comment on this, the weather forecast that day, May 26th of this year, 2017. The high near Weatherford,

Texas, because that`s where it is, Tarrant County, 98 degrees was the high, 96 degrees when officers arrived. But remember, that was allegedly two

hours later. So maybe it was that high of 98 degrees. What`s it inside a car if it`s outside 98 degrees?

JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR (via telephone): Hey, Jeans. Thanks for having me. Yes, I can tell you, it`s going to be at

least 25 percent higher inside of that vehicle. Just think of it this way. This area almost becomes like a convection oven. These children, for the

amount of time that they were in there, are stirring around. They`re moving the air around with their bodies, but it`s simply hot air they`re

moving. They`re rebreathing their own hot air.

It`s a horrible, horrible situation. And these cases are getting so frequent, it`s almost like we can put this on a loop, it seems like.

CASAREZ: But this is a new one. I mean, this is a new one.

MORGAN: Yes. Yes.

CASAREZ: She intentionally left the children in the car to teach them a lesson. Now, if you say that...

MORGAN: To teach them a lesson.

CASAREZ: ... it`s about 25 percent higher in degrees...

MORGAN: Yes.

CASAREZ: It was almost 100 degrees, the high that day. So that would be about 125 degrees, a little bit less, but in the car.

MORGAN: Yes. And what I`m really curious about in this case, Jean, is what took place at the scene relative to the investigation. And what we

need to try to understand is, was there a body temperature done on these children? Was there an ambient environmental temperature performed within

the vehicle?

If you reflect back to the Justin Ross Harris case with little Cooper, when they went back and did testing in that particular case, they were getting

readings near the dashboard of 135, 136 degrees and even down on the floorboard of that car, it was 129 degrees. Now, this is in Texas in the

hottest point of the day.

CASAREZ: Yes.

MORGAN: And -- but it`s a very short period of time that she`s talking about, two to three hours. Is it possible for somebody to have

traditionally what`s referred to as a heat stroke from -- and it be fatal? Yes, it is. But keep in mind, Cooper was in there for a bona fide eight

hours. With these kids, I don`t know if we can believe everything that she`s saying. Was she -- did she leave the kids in there longer, is what I

wonder?

CASAREZ: Right. Right. It`s a very good point. And remember, in Texas you`ve got humidity.

MORGAN: Yes.

CASAREZ: It always feels hotter than what the actual temperature is. And it`s even harder to breathe with that humidity.

Danny Cevallos, you know, she finally says to the Texas Rangers when they interview her, what may be the truth. We don`t know. But she really

confesses. But tell me what your thoughts are on this sentence because, you know, we`re looking at her state of mind because, remember, she`s been

charged with injury to a child causing bodily injury or death.

And if it`s intentional, it`s first-degree felony. If it`s reckless, it`s second-degree. She gives a statement. "I broke the car window to make it

look like an accident."

CEVALLOS: So many problems with giving a statement like that. And a defense attorney is going to have a real challenge with that because any

time you conceal your activity, the natural inference is that whatever you did originally was intentional. So if she made that statement, and I`m

sure she`s regretting making that statement -- there`s some defense lawyer somewhere saying, Why in the world did you ever talk to the police? But as

a prosecutor, you seize on that and you show this to the jury and you say, Hey, people who do things accidentally don`t normally try to conceal them.

They don`t have this kind of intent, this kind of deliberate planning. So this is not good for this individual.

CASAREZ: No, it`s bad.

KUGEL: Yes, and look, it`s a horrible case. It`s extremely difficult to sort of play the defense attorney in something like this. I have two

little children of my own. I think it`s hard to say that it could have been an accident because it`s hard to imagine sort of not being -- not

having the kids say anything for that long. That doesn`t exist with little toddlers. To have that much peace and quiet do take a nap for three hours

is itself nearly impossible as parent of little kids.

But I think, as a defense attorney, you know, we have to keep in mind that these statements are just allegations and there have been many cases where

there have been statements that turned out later to have coerced or to have come out after 10 hours of questioning. We need more information on why

this story changed and whether there`s circumstances that raised some doubt about the full veracity of that statement.

CASAREZ: And I would think the defense would say panic and fear and that - - you know, she originally said she just wanted to teach them a lesson, so that`s not that she intentionally wanted to kill them.

Jeffrey, I do want to ask you, what do we know about her? What do we know about her life, her person, her background?

BONEY: We don`t know too much about what she`s done and who she is.

[20:30:00] I mean, just a stay-at-home mom at this point. But you know, we do know that she`s in jail. She hasn`t been indicted yet, but it does plan

to go to the grand jury with these two charges in the next month to six weeks.

And in Texas, resulting in a death charge on a first-degree felony -- I mean, it`s a first-degree felony and holds the same weight as a murder

charge in Texas. So, she could be looking at anywhere from five to 99 years or life in prison.

CASAREZ: This is very, very serious, Jeffrey Boney, you`re exactly right.

All right. In Massachusetts, Michelle Carter, the woman convicted of manslaughter in the suicide of her boyfriend, Conrad Roy, is now facing a

multi-million dollar wrongful death suit. Conrad Roy`s mother is seeking $4.2 million in damages from Carter.

Carter was sentenced on Friday to 15 months in jail for her role in Conrad Roy`s death. However, she remains free on bail pending the appeals of her

conviction.

A Kansas woman allegedly decapitate her ex-boyfriend`s mother. Yes, but days before the horrific attack, she took to social media complaining about

feeling insane and she begged for an exorcism. Now a judge is trying to decide if she was or is in her right state of mind.

[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: A judge in Kansas wants to know if a woman accused of decapitating her ex`s mother, that`s right, is mentally fit enough to stand trial, and

even understand the charges that she`s facing.

Prosecutors say Rachael Hilyard attacked Micki Davis when she came over do pick up some of her son`s things after they`d broken up. Officers

responding to a 911 call found Davis` head in a sink when they arrived and Rachael acting strangely.

In the days leading up to the killing, Rachael apparently even sought an exorcist to rid her home of evil spirits. So now, a judge wants mental

health experts to evaluate her.

And if this jailhouse interview is any indication, there is a real possibility that Rachael at this point of time isn`t fit to stand trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): I`m just saying nobody cares about God anymore. I think it`s very sad. And God is really sad with the earth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Rachael Hilyard asked Pastor Terry Fox for an exorcism prior to Micki Davis` death and he joins us tonight from Wichita, Kansas. Pastor,

thank you for coming on. You are the person that actually spoke to this woman and saw this woman. How long before this happened?

TERRY FOX, PASTOR, DEFEDANT ASKED HIM FOR EXORCISM (via telephone): This happened -- she came to our church a few months before the crime actually

happened, and also we had had a difficult time getting back in contact with her.

She was not easy to get a hold of. And then we had a contact with her a couple of weeks before the actual crime actually took place. We had been in

her home and visited with her and even had taken her out to eat.

She was very depressed and had come to us for help. And we were in the process of evaluating her mental state versus the demonic influence that`s

oftentimes very real in a person like her.

CASAREZ: Right, depression versus demonic state, I think you said. Tell us about her. What was her demeanor like when you spoke with her?

FOX (via telephone): You know, we`ve been asked by media, by lots of different people. I`ve been doing paranormal ministry for over 30 years,

and I have to be honest and say to all your viewers that each case is totally different.

They`re never the same. And the challenge for someone that does deliverance ministry or someone that does this type of ministry is evaluating what are

we dealing with here? With her, we did not see any signs of aggression.

There was nothing there that would cause us to think that Rachael was capable of hurting anyone. Like I said, myself and our staff, put her in my

car and took her to a local restaurant and fed her.

What we did find with her is she was very, very depressed and very, very concerned about her spiritual condition --

CASAREZ: Why did she want an exorcism?

FOX (via telephone): Well, what she had said is that she was very depressed and she felt like in the interviews, as your viewers were able to hear a

few moments ago, that people had walked away from God and she said I don`t want to walk from God. She said I really believe that there is something

evil in me and I`m very depressed.

CASAREZ: So, did you believe that?

FOX (via telephone): Let me tell you, after working in the cases I work hundreds of cases across America, the answer is yes. We believe, and I know

that Christians that are watching your show tonight believe, that if you take the bible seriously at all, you know there is evil and good in the

world and someone under demonic inspiration is, indeed, capable of doing any kind of act.

And I have to honestly say to you that we did not detect anything aggressive about her.

CASAREZ: Well, here are the facts that prosecutors are saying. She was dating a man by the last name of Davis, we believe, who she broke up with.

So she calls up his mother and says come on over, I`m going to put his stuff next to the curve and you pick it up if you want it.

So, she came, and this woman, the victim, Micki Davis, 63 years old, there she is right there, and she brought her 9-year-old grandson, which is one

of the most tragic things about all of this. And according do authorities, when Micki got to the house, Rachael turned on her and with a knife,

Pastor, not only

[20:40:00] killed her, but decapitated her in the garage. And when authorities came, they saw what they thought was a mannequin, and it was a

corpse without a head.

FOX (via telephone): Yes.

CASAREZ: Now, there has to be signs of this. I mean, you didn`t see anything.

FOX (via telephone): What`s really interesting, Jean, we`ve been doing this a lot of years, we go in all kinds of situations. If what is interesting

and of course the neighbors, I saw your interview with some of the neighbors, they were saying, too, they were shocked at Rachael`s behavior.

You know, I had several years of law enforcement in Texas and as a pastor, all these many years and especially doing paranormal ministry, many times

you can evaluate or at least discern if somebody is dangerous.

I had this very girl in my car in the front seat with me just a few days before this homicide happened. And my assistant was with me who taught

school for many, many years and has great discernment of people.

And I`ll be honest you, we knew she was extremely depressed, but we did not see anything in that house, any weapons, we didn`t see anything in that

house. Nothing she said to us, even though it`s very confidential, as pastor, she was sharing with us as pastors, we were not concerned about any

of her statements.

In fact, we were in Texas when we heard the homicide had happened and we were just as in shock as the neighbors were and everybody else.

CASAREZ: Well, meanwhile, she`s been charged with first-degree murder. The most serious offense there is. When you spoke with her, did she know what

she was saying? Was she comprehending what she believed her issues were?

FOX (via telephone): Well, I want to be careful in what I say here because as pastors, we are -- that speech is protected. She shared with us some

hurts and disappointments in her life, but nothing that would cross over violence.

I mean, we often felt like as we talked about -- now, we only had two brief sessions with her and anybody that`s a demonologist or even the Catholic

church will tell you that it`s a process of exorcisms, deliverance ministry as a --

CASAREZ: Yes, you know, we got to go, but Danny, really fast, competency is the issue here. Does she understand the charges? Is she able to aid her

attorneys? He met with her two days before. She sounded pretty rational. She thought she had some issues, but he doesn`t think she was a nut job.

CEVALLOS: Right. Insanity is about what you were thinking at the time. Competency is about whether or not you can help your lawyer during trial.

And even if there is a finding of competency, the government will do everything it can to get that person competent again so they can bring them

to trial.

Whether they have nice evil spirits or violent evil spirits or whatever kind of evil spirits are swirling around in their head, they`re going to

make every effort to bring them back to the world of science to competence.

CASAREZ: Right, which they do many, many times. Most of the time, actually. All right.

You would have thought that with Dalia Dippolito`s conviction last month that that would be the last we would hear from her for a while, but you

would be wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(PHONE RINGING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Hello, this is a pre-paid collect call from --

DALIA DIPPOLITO, CONVICTED FOR HIRING HIT MAN TO KILL HUSBAND (voice-over): Dalia.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): An inmate at --

DIPPOLITO (voice-over): West Palm Beach Detention Facility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And it turns out she might have been planning a prison break. We`ll be right back.

[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: For the past eight years and three trials, Dalia Dippolito has seemed to make a habit of getting caught on tape and getting in trouble for

it. She`s appealing her conviction for trying to hire a hit man to kill her husband.

If denied, Dalia will begin serving a 16-year sentence immediately. But the defense wants her out while the appeal is pending. It`s that appellate

proceeding that has prosecutors worried because of her phone calls while being held in jail.

They released one conversation that she had with her possible boyfriend where she seems to joke about breaking out. As evidence, she`s a flight

risk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIPPOLITO (voice-over): There is a guy who was in a prison in Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

DIPPOLITO (voice-over): He had somebody fly a drone over and drop off wire cutters. And he cut wires and escaped from prison.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, that`s awesome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Brian Claypool is Dalia Dippolito`s attorney. He joins us tonight from Los Angeles. Brian, thanks so much for being on the show tonight. Now,

you`re fighting this so you you want her out pending the results of this appeal, after being convicted.

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, ATTORNEY FOR DALIA DIPPOLITO: Right. Absolutely, Jean. The couple reasons why we want her out of jail pending the appeal. Number one,

we feel like we have very strong meritorious arguments on appeal.

We believe that certain pieces of evidence were let in during her third trial that the jury shouldn`t have heard. For example, the -- remember

everybody`s heard about the alleged poisoning and the chai tea latte, the judge let in some evidence of Dalia trying to hire somebody in Riviera

Beach to knock off her next husband.

That evidence should have never come before a jury. So, we`re going to be appealing on those grounds. A third ground that recently came up, a jury

sleeping during critical testimony. Why am I mentioning all that?

Because these are factors, Jean, that the judge will look at to determine whether Dalia gets bond pending appeal. And then you got the issue you`re

talking about which is the state is going to argue, based on this jailhouse phone call, she`s a flight risk. And flight risk is a factor the court

considers as well.

CASAREZ: Exactly. Brian, let`s listen to a little bit more of this phone call and then

[20:50:00] get your response to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIPPOLITO (voice-over): Totally random. I was reading in the paper, there is this guy who was in prison in Texas, and --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): What?

DIPPOLITO (voice-over): There was a guy who was in prison in Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Yes.

DIPPOLITO (voice-over): He had somebody fly a drone over and drop off wire cutters. And he cut wires and escaped from prison.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, that`s awesome. What a genius.

DIPPOLITO (voice-over): He put a dummy in his bed and he had an 18-hour head start. And it turns out that they caught him in a motel in Texas with

$46,000 dollars cash and fake --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): How much?

DIPPOLITO (voice-over): Forty-six thousand dollars cash and fake IDs. And it turns out somebody tipped them off. And someone ratted him out somehow.

And they were saying in the article, how they can`t prevent drones from coming in. There`s nothing you can do to prevent that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): NO, of course not. It`s in the air.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: So, Brian, why isn`t she a flight risk? I mean, she really reeled off these facts right here. And she`s finally been convicted. And it seems

firm at this point, after three trials. Why isn`t she a flight risk?

CLAYPOOL: Plain and simple, Jean, she spent seven plus years on house arrest. Don`t you think it would be a lot easier for Dalia Dippolito to

flee if she was on house arrest versus trying to have a drone flown in above the jail to drop wire cutters?

She`s been a model inmate. So this comment was made in a context where just prior to that, Jean, she was talking, for example, about how much she loves

her little boy. How much she loves her family.

How she wants to do some positive speaking once she gets out of jail. And then after you have this discussion about this man escaping in South

Carolina, she`s talking about going and reading books with some of the other female inmates in a reading club.

So, I think when you put this 45 seconds into an eight-year time period, what you flush out is a young woman who has never made any kind of effort

to flee from these charges. And in fact, she`s fought vigorously to gain her freedom back.

Jean, one other quick point, I had a 30-minute phone call with Dalia Dippolito about five days before this jailhouse call came about. And I will

tell you that after that conversation, she was very uplifted and very empowered to try to fight on this appeal, so that she can gain her freedom

back to be with her son. So that`s exactly at odds with what you`re hearing in this tape.

CASAREZ: You know, Rachel, Brian makes a great point. You need to hear the whole tape.

KUGEL: Yes.

CASAREZ: That little excerpt doesn`t get the whole story.

KUGEL: No. And really, all you really hear is her talking about the news with someone in her life that she loves. She never says, we should try

this. She never makes any steps towards, how could we do this in my case? I mean, she`s just talking about a news story. And she does talk about the

fact that the guy was caught, ultimately.

CASAREZ: Right. But the fact is, she was convict of a pretty serious crime. We want to take you back in time. I bet you`ll remember this, a plan she

thought she was talking to the hit man, but it was actually a police detective, and she finds out her husband is dead. He wasn`t, but she

believes he is. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIPPOLITO: No! No! No! Oh, my God! I want to see him!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to calm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: That was all fake, folks, because she was the one that hired the hit man, according to prosecutors, according to jurors. Should she be

released, pending appeal, Danny?

CEVALLOS: Prosecutors love to take things like jailhouse phone calls. By the way, everybody, they`re taping you. That`s what prosecutors love to do.

If they particularly dislike a defendant, they sit around and listen to their prison calls to see if they can mine something in there and use it

against them in a bail hearing or really anything else.

So, nothing`s privileged, except conversations with your attorney. Even those, I don`t think are. That`s my theory.

CASAREZ: That`s right. Lesson learned. All right, at 14 years old, this week`s CNN hero, Mariuma Ben Yosef, was living alone on the streets. After

years of struggle, she managed to create a stable life and for the past 32 years has dedicated that life to helping vulnerable youth in Israel,

providing them not only with a safe haven, but something more, a family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIUMA BEN YOSEF, CNN HERO: To be homeless in a young age, it`s very lonely. When you don`t have your family, you will always have this black

hole.

[20:55:00] I know exactly what they`re going through. I want children to breathe. I want them to feel alive. I want them to feel secure. I want them

to feel like they can be hugged and they will not be in danger. We can see it in a different way and win life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: Last Thursday, fugitive Dino Curcio, was featured on "THE HUNT WITH JOHN WALSH" and he was captured. The U.S. marshal service says it is

all thanks to our viewers. So don`t touch your remote.

Up next, the search is on for Herman Carroll, a serial killer and a molester who preys on young women. For the entire PRIMETIME JUSTICE, I`m

Jean Casarez.

[21:00:00] "THE HUNT WITH JOHN WALSH" begins right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END