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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Convicted Murderer Scott Peterson Speaks; Naked Man Shot by Police; Don`t Forget To Flush; Groping Trial Day Three; Hunt for A Killer. Aired 8- 9p ET
Aired August 09, 2017 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[20:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST (voice-over): For the first time in 10 years...
SCOTT PETERSON, CONVICTED OF MURDER: I was (INAUDIBLE) to see Laci that day.
BANFIELD: ... the silent killer speaks from death row, no less.
PETERSON: There`s going to be no end to this.
BANFIELD: Scott Peterson says he was shocked when a jury found him guilty of killing his pregnant wife and their unborn son.
PETERSON: (INAUDIBLE) on the floor.
BANFIELD: Breaking his silence in a new A&E documentary, "The Murder of Laci Peterson."
PETERSON: I had no idea it was coming.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) got the handgun in his left hand and he`s walking out front.
BANFIELD: You`re not seeing things. That is a naked man with a handgun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turned back towards the church.
BANFIELD: And yes, this is happening outside a church.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: K-9`s going to need somebody with them here to take this guy into custody, I believe.
BANFIELD: Just when police think they have him contained...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, he`s running.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s running.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s running?
BANFIELD: ... he is shot. Police say his next move changed everything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And everybody knew him.
BANFIELD: A World War II American hero.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He decided to just live here.
BANFIELD: Yet he couldn`t survive a crime wave in Baltimore.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A despicable, evil, disgusting and pathetic act of violence.
BANFIELD: A 97-year-old veteran killed in his pajamas inside his home where he`s lived for 60 years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s absolutely inhumane.
BANFIELD: Could his murder be the tipping point for a city on the brink?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just not certain that hell is even enough for this guy.
BANFIELD: A deejay accused of groping Taylor Swift takes the stand, calling the photo evidence awkward. Why the pop star`s attorney says the
photo`s damning proof.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounds so similar to stories that happen to women everywhere.
BANFIELD: Talk about potty training, a home intruder leaves a little surprise in a family`s bathroom. Police say had he only flushed, they may
not have found their man.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
Few cases have captured the attention of so many people around the world like O.J. Simpson, Casey Anthony and Scott Peterson. And Peterson`s on
that list, even though his trial wasn`t even televised. But the story, the lies, the mounds of evidence that fueled this drama was nothing less than
captivating.
Scott Peterson was convicted of murdering his very pregnant wife, Laci, and their unborn child, Conner. That was back in 2004. That was almost two
years after she had vanished near their home in Modesto, California.
At trial, prosecutors revealed that Scott killed Laci and tossed her body off of his boat in the San Francisco Bay on Christmas Eve, no less. He`s
now sitting on death row pending an appeal.
But now, more than a decade since anyone has heard from this silent killer, Scott is speaking. He`s talking to his sister-in-law in a recorded phone
call from that prison. The call will be featured as part of a brand-new documentary series on A&E. It`s called "The Murder of Laci Peterson."
And I want to play for you Scott Peterson talking about his reaction the moment the guilty verdict was read.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want to talk about the murder (ph) first?
PETERSON: (INAUDIBLE) this amazing, horrible, physical reaction that I had. I couldn`t feel my feet on the floor. I couldn`t feel the chair I
was sitting in. My vision was even a little blurry. And I just had this weird sensation that I was falling forward (INAUDIBLE) forward (INAUDIBLE)
There was going to be no end to this (INAUDIBLE) floor to land on. I was staggered by it. I had no idea it was coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: For more than a decade, Laci Peterson`s family has been forced to listen to the Scott`s lies and his deception. And in that A&E special,
Laci`s mother, Sharon, minces no words when it comes to the man who took away her daughter and her unborn grandson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARON ROCHA, LACI PETERSON`S MOTHER: (INAUDIBLE) to be put to death. I mean, if it was my child, that would be extremely difficult to deal with,
but he`s not my child because he murdered my child. So as far as I`m concerned, he`s where he needs to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:08]BANFIELD: Joining me live tonight in New York, Beth Karas. She covered the Scott Peterson trial gavel to gavel for Court TV. Michael
Cardoza -- he performed a mock cross-examination of Scott Peterson himself. And he also attended the trial gavel to gavel. And defense attorney
Caroline Polisi is with me, as well. From Los Angeles, Gloria Allred. She was the attorney for Scott Peterson`s girlfriend, Amber Frey.
And welcome to all four of you. There couldn`t be smarter voices on this very auspicious anniversary. Here we are 15 years later from a moment that
really riveted the nation. And I want to just play, if I can, for everyone, and those who may not have seen it, as they are just growing up
now, the moment Scott Peterson found out what the verdict was going to be. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: State of California versus Scott Peterson. We, the jury in the above entitled cause, find the defendant, Scott Lee Peterson,
guilty of the crime of murder of Laci Debeese (ph) Peterson.
We, the jury in the above entitled cause, find the defendant, Scott Lee Peterson, guilty of the crime of murder of baby Conner Peterson.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Audio only because it wasn`t televised, but that didn`t mean, Beth Karas, that everyone wasn`t watching and digesting every minute of
that trial.
BETH KARAS, FORMER PROSECUTOR, COVERED PETERSON TRIAL: That`s right. The way I covered it was on my Blackberry, getting transmissions from an
overflow audio-only room at the courthouse from our producer, Michael Christian. And I was reading the Blackberry on air because the same summer
that this trial took place in 2004, Mark Zuckerberg was -- he was developing, inventing Facebook in Palo Alto probably two miles from my
hotel.
Twitter didn`t exist yet, so this is how we covered it, reading a Blackberry, looking into the camera. And then I would go into court, you
know, for a few hours later in the day. But that`s how we covered it.
BANFIELD: Beth just showed up with this. And I didn`t know you had it. You kept this all this time.
KARAS: I did. And I kept the death one, too. These were -- a local paper from Redwood City that came out the day of, November 2nd. They must have
had -- November 12th, I mean, 2004. They must have had a not guilty and a guilty because they were ready to go. As soon as the verdict came in, they
were selling them outside.
BANFIELD: OK, so I`m drawn to the crowds cheer part of this because it was a little like Casey. It was a little like O.J. in that...
KARAS: There were hundreds of people!
(CROSSTALK)
KARAS: I was one of the first people out of the courthouse. First of all, I was sitting in the courtroom right behind Sharon and -- Sharon Rocha and
Laci`s friends and watched the jury come in. I saw one of the jurors go like that in the direction of Sharon.
BANFIELD: Wow.
KARAS: I don`t know if she saw her, but I was, like, OK. But I didn`t even hear the second-degree murder of Conner. And I couldn`t process it
because to me, that didn`t make sense. If it was first degree for Laci -- she was pregnant! It had to be first degree for Conner, the unborn child,
but it was second degree. I never heard a good explanation for that.
But I ran out of the courtroom, and I was the first one out of the courtroom from the media. And there were hundreds of people out there.
They were cheering. They parted ways so I could get to my live shot, which by then was in front of the courthouse. For the whole trial, it was around
the side.
BANFIELD: A circus.
KARAS: Yes. And then I was able to talk about reaction in the courtroom. But Scott Peterson didn`t react the way he just said in the phone...
BANFIELD: So that`s where, Michael Cardoza, you come in. You`re one of the only people who had contact with him. And am I wrong in saying that
you actually did this sort of mock cross-examination, you know, I guess -- I guess analysis? You tried to coach him, or at least you helped him in
his cell, in his actual cell...
(CROSSTALK)
MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, what happened was towards the end of the trial, Mark came to me, Geragos, and Pat Harris came and said, Hey,
would you mind crossing Scott in preparation for his testimony, if, in fact, he does testify?
My first thought was, Haven`t you guys done this before? Why are you waiting until the end of the trial? I never did ask them that, so I didn`t
know if they prepared him. But I`ll tell you one thing, the one thing I know. The only person that could have saved Scott Peterson is Scott
himself by testifying in that trial.
BANFIELD: So when you did the mock prep with him...
CARDOZA: Yes.
BANFIELD: ... were you doing two things, prepping him but also...
CARDOZA: No.
BANFIELD: ... analyzing whether he was capable?
CARDOZA: No. I was not because when they came to me, I said, Here`s how we`re going to do it. Number one, because I was an analyst, I said, We are
going to tell everyone that I`m doing this after we do it. And when I walk in -- I don`t want to meet Scott before. I don`t want to help you prepare
him. What I will do -- because I was a district attorney before I became a defense attorney. I said, It`s going to be like for real. I`ll walk in
there. I will sit down and I will start to cross-examine him.
And when I`m through, I`m going to get up, I`m going to walk out. You guys decide whether you want to put him on the stand or not. You guys decide if
he answered the questions correctly...
BANFIELD: So was he any good? Was he capable? Would he have made a good witness?
CARDOZA: I really can`t talk about that because I have attorney-client privilege.
[20:10:04]BANFIELD: I get attorney-client privilege...
CARDOZA: I know you want to get...
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: No, no, I respect anybody in this -- look, I`ve done this for you. I`ve had that answer a lot. What I think doesn`t breach privilege is
telling me whether your (INAUDIBLE) whether he would have made a good witness on the stand.
CARDOZA: Well, I`ll tell you this. If I were defending him, as I told you, I think he had to testify and I think he had to be prepared correctly,
and that would be over a long period of time. Once you become the attorney, the first thing I do is start preparing my client to testify.
BANFIELD: Yes.
CARDOZA: Every time I talk to him or her, we`re talking about perhaps testifying in the trial. And then as we get close to trial and once the
prosecution is through with their case, then my client and I decide whether he is going to testify or not.
BANFIELD: So without armchair quarterbacking this or at least looking back...
CARDOZA: Sure.
BANFIELD: ... if he had testified, because you`re the only one who asked him questions...
CARDOZA: Right.
BANFIELD: ... who could talk to me about the demeanor of this guy sitting in an orange jumpsuit.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDOZA: Talk to me, go ahead.
BANFIELD: If he testified, would he be sitting where he is today?
CARDOZA: I don`t know. I really don`t know.
BANFIELD: Best guess.
CARDOZA: It would depend on whether they took his answers and helped him formulate -- not the answer...
BANFIELD: Was he believable to you?
CARDOZA: Can`t tell you.
BANFIELD: You don`t have to tell me what he said, just whether you believed him.
CARDOZA: No, I can`t tell you that. I will not tell you that. Whether he`s believable to me or not...
BANFIELD: How about (INAUDIBLE) Michael?
CARDOZA: ... doesn`t make any difference.
BANFIELD: Was he believable to others? And you know because you...
CARDOZA: You have to ask Mark Geragos...
(CROSSTALK)
CARDOZA: I don`t know.
BANFIELD: You`ve chosen juries before and you know what it takes to be believable. I`m not saying if you`re guilty or innocent. Some innocent
people are not believable.
CARDOZA: There`s no question about that and that`s...
BANFIELD: Was he believable?
CARDOZA: That`s why you talk to people. That`s why you prepare your client because you`re spot on when you say there are people that get up on
the stand, take the oath, and they have a twitch, a tick, a way of answering questions, and they`re not believable even though they are 100
percent telling you the truth.
BANFIELD: Scott said...
CARDOZA: In other words, I`m avoiding the answer to your question.
BANFIELD: I can tell.
CARDOZA: OK, good.
BANFIELD: He told a lot of lies, Beth. You`re absolutely right. And he also dyed his hair and made for the border. That could have been all sorts
of things. But before we go to that...
CARDOZA: Go ahead.
BANFIELD: ... I want to play a little bit more from his sister-in-law`s telephone interview, the recording that`s going to play on A&E. This is an
A&E documentary coming out this month about Laci Peterson`s murder. And this was about the last day that anybody saw Laci Peterson. This is what
Scott said to his sister-in-law. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
PETERSON: I wasn`t the last one to see Laci that day. There are so many witnesses who saw her walking in the neighborhood after I left. The cops
just never followed up on the burglary across the street. The police failed to find my family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Michael, one quick question.
CARDOZA: Sure.
BANFIELD: Him saying that he`s floored by the verdict, that he`s astounded, and then going back to sort of relitigate the moment, are you
surprised by what we`re now learning 10 years after this man has stayed so quiet?
CARDOZA: I`ll tell you why I`m not surprised. When he said, I almost hit the floor -- because do you remember at the end of the guilt phase of the
trial, at the end of the guilt phase, after the jury brought back the guilty verdict, Mark stood up, Geragos stood up and said...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wasn`t there! He wasn`t in court!
CARDOZA: But at a day or two later, he said when Delucci (ph) was talking to him after the verdict, days later, he came into court and he was asked,
We`re going to move to the death penalty portion of this. He said, I`m not ready. I need time. I didn`t think they would bring back a guilty
verdict. So do I think Scott...
KARAS: He told the jury, too.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDOZA: I know he did. I know.
BANFIELD: Did they not prep him? Because you got to prep your client for any moment.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDOZA: You asked me, do I believe Scott believes that, that he was floored by that? Yes, I believe him because I think there was so much
optimism on that side, instead of the pragmatic approach of a lot of defense attorneys, where you tell your client, Look, you might be found
guilty. There is evidence here to get you convicted. Prepare yourself for that. He was not prepared.
BANFIELD: Let me bring in Gloria Allred on all of this because as we were talking about the many, many lies that Scott Peterson told, one of the big
kahunas was that he wasn`t married and about to have a child and he told that lie to Amber Frey in the months leading up to Laci`s murder.
And you represented Amber Frey. I wanted to get your feelings right away when -- A, did you know that this interview existed where he said he was so
floored and that he wasn`t the last person to see Laci that day? And B, have you talked to Amber about this, Gloria?
GLORIA ALLRED, REPRESENTED AMBER FREY: No, I had never heard of that statement, that interview, or that recording, I should say, of now
convicted felon, murderer Scott Peterson. And no, Amber has not yet had an opportunity to discuss that recording with me.
[20:15:00]But I key in on two words that you used earlier, Ashleigh, and that has to do with lies and deception. And this is a person who lied and
lied and lied and even lied about lying. So maybe one of the few truthful things that we`ve heard him say on a recording is he was floored at the
verdict.
But again, I do think it`s an attorney`s responsibility to prepare a client for all possibilities that could happen. And certainly it was always a
possibility, whether his attorneys believed it was a probability, was always a possibility that he would be convicted. So I don`t know...
BANFIELD: Well, you know something...
(CROSSTALK)
ALLRED: ... he was living in la-la-land, a fantasy land...
BANFIELD: You can also hear that from your attorney and not believe it`s going to happen, too. But the second question, Amber -- have you spoken to
Amber Frey about this most recent revelation, these -- I mean, this man has been silent for 10 years, and now we get a conversation with his sister-in-
law released in a tape to A&E, a big special that`s coming. She must have some feeling about this 15 years later.
ALLRED: You know, Amber has tried to move on with her life. She`s been a wonderful mother to her two children. She`s a very spiritual person.
She`s working, a single mother, you know, contributes to her community.
Yes, Scott Peterson was one important part of her life and she was really the hero of the case. But she`s trying to move on with her life. And
Scott Peterson not only was apparently floored by the verdict, but you know, as I`m sure most convicted felons do, he still probably harbors hope
that that`s going to be reversed on appeal, his conviction, and that he won`t have to face the death penalty.
BANFIELD: No -- I feel as though I`m brand-new in this business some days. But then again, I realize after, you know, 30 years or so, that there are
some people coming along in the story who may have heard their names, really not know a lot about them.
I`m going to ask our control room to cue up sound bite number four. And there`s a specific reason I want to do that because when it comes to this
man, Scott Peterson, and the lengths that he could go in telling stories that weren`t true -- he told a story to this girlfriend, who did not know
he was married, did not know there was a baby on the way in just a couple of months, and ultimately, when the police told her that her boyfriend has
a wife who`s missing, she decided to record some phone calls.
And so this is the phone call that Amber Frey recorded with Scott Peterson. I think this is New Year`s Eve 2002. It`s only about nine days or so after
she went missing, at least, you know, within two weeks. And this is Scott Peterson talking about his future together with Amber Frey. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETERSON: In my mind, we could be wonderful together and I could -- I could care for you in any way and every way. For the rest of our lives, I
think we care for each other and Ayianna, and you know, we could fulfill each other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Scott Peterson took it on the chin a lot, for not just that but a lot of things, like he didn`t, in the public`s eye, do a whole lot to
help find this missing wife before body parts started popping up in San Francisco Bay about four months after she was missing.
This is an interview that he gave in between that time, before he was arrested, and I think it gives you some -- well, I think it gives you some
insight as to what kind of person Scott Peterson is, or at least was, at the time his wife was missing. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETERSON: It is entirely too selfish for me to defend myself amongst these accusations. Laci`s missing, and all the media time should be spent toward
finding her and all of our energy should be spent towards finding her. Unfortunately, suspicion about me has risen to such a degree that I think
people stopped to look for Laci. They`ve stopped (INAUDIBLE) And that`s why I`m interested in being in the media now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Caroline Polisi, stranger things have happened, but when you have a big TV story like the O.J. story, lots of new eyeballs watch, lots
of fresh memories or at least fresh perspective comes along, and God forbid there just might be some new evidence, and what if it`s exculpatory? Then
what?
CAROLINE POLISI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, we`re hearing some rumors that there may be some evidence. I`ve heard reports that perhaps the
prosecution didn`t turn over all of the discovery to the defense. I don`t think this is going to be mind-blowing information. This is not going to
be the next "Making a Murderer." This guy`s a sociopath. It doesn`t surprise me that he`s maintaining his innocence from behind bars. And he
probably is loving this newfound attention, but I don`t think it`s going to get him anywhere.
BANFIELD: I got to get a last comment from that facial expression I got from you, Michael.
CARDOZA: Sure. Scott Peterson did not get a fair trial.
BANFIELD: Why not?
CARDOZA: Is he guilty or not guilty? I don`t know. I`ll tell you why not. Because they moved the trial from Modesto...
BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE)
CARDOZA: Listen, 90 miles away, same TV viewing area. We were saturated with Scott Peterson. Everybody in the Bay Area knew that. They should
have moved that trial to Los Angeles or San Diego, where nobody knew about it or knew very little.
(CROSSTALK)
[20:20:10]KARAS: ... rulings from the judge. He got so many good rulings from the judge.
CARDOZA: Oh, no.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDOZA: Talk about the boat, the experiment -- oh, come on! There were three things...
(CROSSTALK)
CARDOZA: What about the outtakes from Diane Sawyer`s show?
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: I can`t relitigate at the end of the segment, but I am fascinated not only by all of your perspectives and fascinated by Scott`s
voice -- Gloria, you`re fascinating no matter what story we`re talking about. So thank you, as well. Thank you to all three of you. And you
know what? Let`s all gather again if something does pop up after so many more new eyeballs (INAUDIBLE) Thank you.
We all know that anything pretty much goes in Vegas. But a naked man brandishing a gun outside a church in the middle of the day, maybe not so
much.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s starting to reach down. He`s got the handgun in his left hand and he`s walking out front. Handgun in his left hand, he`s
walking forward.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Going to show you how this played out in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:25:06]BANFIELD: It`s probably not a surprise to hear a naked man was running around in Las Vegas. Police say Jason David Funke was not only
naked, he was waving a gun outside of a church with children inside. Investigators say he initially listened to their commands to drop his
weapon and raised his hands. But when he started running, they say he feared he was going to grab his weapon again and one officer opened fire.
Now police are releasing video of the shooting but we want to warn you it could be disturbing to some viewers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand by. Stand by. Stand by. He`s standing up. He`s standing up. He`s starting to reach down. He`s got the handgun in
his left hand, and he`s walking out front. Handgun in his left hand. He`s walking forward. He`s turned back towards the church. He`s walking
northwest bound toward that front alcove again. He`s walking really slow, handgun in his right hand.
And now he`s -- OK, he just dropped the gun and put his hands up. I don`t know if someone`s challenging him or what, but he just put his hands on top
of his head. He`s walking away from the gun to the north.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around! Lay down on your face! Lay down on your face. Turn around. Lay down on your face!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No! Stop!. No! Stop!
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The police say that Funke was shot in the shoulder. He was taken to the hospital and that tonight he is doing OK. Chris Kudialis is a
reporter for "The Las Vegas Sun" and he joins me from Las Vegas. Chris, that is just sort of astounding play-by-play and moment to moment. Is
there any criticism what`s going on right now, given that the police have been sort of open and forthright with not only press conferences, details,
but also video?
CHRIS KUDIALIS, "LAS VEGAS SUN": Well, that`s a great question, Ashleigh. I think over the past month, there had been five officer-involved shootings
here in Las Vegas, an incredibly busy month for officers here. And they have been very transparent.
I think in this particular case, when you have a suspect that is running away from the officer and that is shot in what police call the shoulder
area, but clearly has his back turned to police, I think that`s raised some other questions.
And I actually spoke with metro police, Las Vegas metropolitan police spokesperson yesterday, and was told that the shooting is still under
investigation and that they haven`t made a determination about whether anybody from the police side is at fault.
BANFIELD: OK. So let me ask this, Chris. I think the natural question is what on earth was going on with this man? Because it wasn`t as though he
was a stranger to the church. Apparently, one of the employees inside knew him. He had been a donator of money to the church before. Is this a drug
issue? Is this a mental health issue? Is this suicide by public (ph)? What`s the story behind this?
KUDIALIS: I think it`s all of the above to some extent in this particular case. Like you said, he had been a previous donor to the church. He was
found on scene, apparently allegedly told an employee, perhaps the person that called 911 on him, that he had been using LSD and marijuana and also
allegedly told police after he was shot to, Please just kill me, or Just finish me, I think were his exact words, according to police.
This suspect, according to police, has also had some problems with depression in the past, and I think all of those factors contributed.
BANFIELD: So as we`re looking at the video, you`ve seen him drop the gun and you`ve seen him walking away from the gun. This is him walking towards
the bodycam shot of the police officers, especially the officer with the dog. This is the perspective of him walking towards them. They`re trying
to tell him to stop, turning around and running back.
He`s running back to the gun here. He`s running back to the gun, and this is what happens because the police officers say he got within eight yards
of the firearm.
So that`s where I want to bring in Randy Sutton. He`s a retired Las Vegas police lieutenant. He joins me from Las Vegas. Just to be clear, Randy,
you were not involved in this. Even though you are all Vegas, you`re an analyst on this.
But can you see anything wrong with shooting a man as he`s running away from the police officers, even though he`s running towards the weapon that
he had previously dropped?
RANDY SUTTON, RETIRED LAS VEGAS POLICE LIEUTENANT: Absolutely not. And your previous guest alluded to some questions about it. There are no
questions about this. The officers had a responsibility to not allow him to get back to that weapon. So the game here is to try and let everybody
go home safely.
[20:30:00] At first, you can tell from the footage from the helicopter, and this was really good procedural stuff. The helicopter is calling out what`s
going on. It`s giving that information, not only to the officers who were there at the scene, but those who were about to arrive on the scene, as
well as memorializing it for the --
BANFIELD: So really quickly --
SUTTON: -- for the record.
BANFIELD: -- one question that pops into my head is you`re saying that, I`m seeing this, there`s a dog, is it too late to release that dog? And the
second part to the question if you can answer it all in one, did they intend to shoot him in the shoulder? Because we`re always told, you fire a
shot, you fire a kill shot, you don`t fire an arm or leg which can always go awry.
SUTTON: No, the officer was shooting for center mass which is exactly where he should. The fact that he only fired one time shows very good fire
discipline because the threat was now ended because he was down.
Now, when it comes to the dog, they don`t want to release the dog unless there`s a threat. The individual was cooperating. Looked like he was going
to give up, but then he didn`t listen to the commands to lie down. Now, unfortunately, when they released the dog, the dog actually went after a
police officer instead of the suspect.
BANFIELD: Really?
SUTTON: That`s one of the things that -- yes, when you heard the officer say, 9, 9, he was calling for his dog to stop biting the other officer.
BANFIELD: Wow.
SUTTON: I think he latched onto his belt.
BANFIELD: I couldn`t -- I thought there was a command to stop the dog in progress from chasing because it might be dangerous for the K-9, for the
actual dog, the office -- listen, I hear what you`re saying. It`s always disturbing when you see this and when you hear this.
I guess the lucky thing for Mr. Funk (ph) tonight is that that shot was slightly off from center mass and that he`s going to be okay tonight. He
was shot in the shoulder. Randy, thank you for your analysis. Appreciate it.
SUTTON: Always a pleasure.
BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE), thank you as well. Pleasure is ours. We`ll have you back, indeed.
Police in California busted a burglar nine months after a home break-in. Nine months of an investigation. And the reason it took so long for the
police to make that arrest is -- I can only say it is a true first on this program and maybe other programs as well.
Investigators say that Andrew David Jensen crawled through the family`s doggy door, it happened in the L.A. suburbs. He was not caught on any
security camera, but he did do something that gave him away. He dropped a proverbial deuce in one of the home`s toilets.
I am not making this up. Based on the sample that was recovered. I`m not making that up, either. They actually recovered a sample. The investigators
ran it through a DNA database. Guess what? It was a match to an Andrew Jensen.
So Andrew Jensen was arrested. And I suppose the lesson here to any burglars planning to use the bathroom during their home invasions, potty
training. Sorry, but it`s a funny story, it`s funnier that he was caught because he did that. DNA.
The deejay who Taylor Swift claims grabbed her backside takes the stand. He claims her groping allegations against him actually ruined his career.
We`re going to flash that one out in a moment. No, that was not a pun at all. We`re going to go the actual story itself. They both have claims.
And then there`s this story, a member of the greatest generation, World War II veteran, killed inside his own home. And now Baltimore police are
searching for the killer.
Coming up at the top of the hour, a day after Glen Campbell`s death, HLN takes an intimate look at the struggle with Alzheimer`s disease that this
singer had. CNN films presents "I`ll Be Me." It airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern on HLN.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: With each passing day, the number of surviving American veterans who fought in World War II dwindles and today, exactly 72 years to the day
that the United States dropped an atomic bomb on Nagasaki, Japan, virtually ending that war, we have a story of absolute horror.
Committed against a member of America`s greatest generation. It happened here in Baltimore. A city with more than 200 people have been murdered so
far this year. And one of the latest of those victims has left officers speechless. It was 97-year-old Wadell Tate. A World War II veteran found
dead inside his home of 60 years, brutally murdered, reportedly in his pajamas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
T.J. SMITH, SPOKESPERSON, BALTIMORE POLICE: We have to sit here, stand here, and talk about a despicable, evil, disgusting, and pathetic act of
violence that took place inside of a home in east Baltimore.
A 97-year-old man who`s been around long enough to see the Harlem renaissance, to see brown versus board of education, to see the first black
president, to see Martin Luther King and Malcolm X get assassinated, to march on Washington, and some coward decides to end his life.
LINDA THOMPSON, WADELL TATE`S NEIGHBOR: This right here is not fair. I mean, at the age of 97, why would you take his life? It didn`t belong to
you. This has been one of the worst years of my 63 in this city. I`ve never seen such in all the days of my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Police say that Wadell Tate died from blunt force trauma, but why he was killed is still anyone`s guess.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMITH: What would make a 97-year-old man a target inside his home on a Friday evening? Something`s wrong with that. I mean, let`s be honest, if
this -- if this individual kills a 97-year-old man, he`ll kill you. I`m just not certain that hell is even enough for this guy, but we need to get
the person, and I`m being real nice calling this individual a person, responsible for killing a 97-year-old man
[20:40:00] off the street. And if that doesn`t resonate with you, I don`t know what will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Detective Nicole Monroe is the public information officer for the Baltimore Police Department, and she joins me live from Baltimore.
Detective, first and foremost, I`m so sorry for the loss that your city has just endured, I`m also sorry for the loss that America has just suffered
with the killing of Wadell Tate. Simple question, ma`am, any leads so far?
NICOLE MONROE, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): So far, no. We don`t have any leads. And I really appreciate
the introduction. I`m sure his family appreciates it.
But even if you`re not a veteran, I think it`s important to say that he lived in his home for 60 years, 60 years, and he was married for 71 years.
He had four children and this was a man who was a staple in the community. And the community and a family is heartbroken.
We`re going to keep this in the media`s eye and we`re going to push this as much as we can because we do believe that someone may have seen something
and maybe didn`t mean a whole lot to them at that moment, but if we keep pushing this, maybe they`ll have that a-ha moment and contact us with some
information about maybe a suspicious character or something they heard in the neighborhood.
But this may just boil down to an act of conscience. Someone who knows about this murder. Maybe the murderer said something to someone. We want
you to call us. We have to bring this person to justice. Chief T.J. Smith said it best. This person will murder a 97-year-old man, you`re not safe,
he`ll kill anyone, he or she, and we just need to get this individual off the streets.
BANFIELD: I should add, Detective Monroe, that your colleague, T.J. Smith, who we saw uttering those words, he, himself, has been a victim of the
Baltimore crime wave. I think it was his brother killed, was it July 6th? He was the 173rd homicide victim of the year. Is that true?
MONROE (via telephone): Yes. Sadly, it -- the list is getting shorter of people who have not been affected by violence in some way.
BANFIELD: I can imagine.
MONROE (via telephone): A family member or friend, yes.
BANFIELD: Do you know, Detective Monroe, of any motive for this crime against Wadell Tate? Were there things missing from the apartment? Was it a
robbery? Was it a -- what do you know?
MONROE (via telephone): Well, right now detectives believe that this was some sort of burglary. We believe it may have been someone familiar with
Mr. Tate, who felt he had something inside of his home that he wanted, but, you know, when you talk about motive, there is no motive, there`s no reason
to go into someone`s house and murder a 97-year-old man. There was nothing that could have possibly been taken from that home that was worth this
man`s life.
BANFIELD: Detective, what kind of blunt force are we talking about? I mean, there are crimes that are savage, there are crimes -- I mean, if somebody
pushed him out of the way and he fell, do we know the kind of injury or beating that he suffered?
MONROE (via telephone): Well, I`m not going to be able to get too case specific because we want to maintain the integrity of the investigation,
and there are going to be certain details only people familiar with the crime are going to know. Some things we`re going to have to keep close to
the vest. But I will say this was a brutal murder.
And let`s not forget that his family found him and the horror, the horror of that. This was a man who prided himself on being dependable, someone
that his children could always pick up the phone and call and he was there, and then when he did not pick up that phone and they began, you know, to
become concerned and they went to check on his well being, this was what they found.
And I can`t even imagine the horror. This is a family that is heartbroken, and this is a man who is a great dad and great husband and a great --
BANFIELD: A great hero.
MONROE (via telephone): -- for a long time. A great hero.
BANFIELD: Yes, a great hero. One of the last surviving veterans of World War II to not survive his own home of 60 years. It`s a virtual tragedy.
Detective, we are going to wish you the best of luck in finding who did this. I really, really hope you get to the bottom of it. I hope you will
come back on the program when you find the perpetrator. Thank you for being here tonight. We appreciate it.
We`re going to go on to another story we`re following, day two in the lawsuit against Taylor Swift. Now, she says in her counter that a Denver
deejay groped her during one of those meet and greet backstage, and he says her accusations ruined his career. This afternoon, her mother who was
there, testified. We`re going to have a live report straight ahead.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Was Taylor Swift groped backstage during a concert meet and greet in Colorado? Or did Taylor Swift ruined the career of a radio deejay that
she falsely accused of groping her? Both of those claims right now are being argued inside a federal courtroom in Denver, and Taylor is there, so
was her mom. Her mom just took the stand a few hours ago to defend her daughter`s honor.
And the whole case centers on this photograph. Backstage at the concert in 2013. In it, you can see on the right David Mueller. And you can see his
right hand. Notice. Taylor Swift says it is clearly on her backside. Mueller says he wasn`t touching anything inappropriately. Here`s how he
described what happened during an interview with IHeartRadio`s "Mojo in the Morning."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Where are your hands as this
[20:50:00] photo is being taken? Where`s your right hand? Where`s your left hand?
DAVID MUELLER, FORMER RADIO DJ (voice-over): My right hand, I`m looking at the photographer and trying to get my right hand, you know, behind Taylor.
Because Shannon was on the other side of Taylor, of course.
My other hand, I think was just in my -- on my belt or on my pocket, my left hand. So my right hand, I`ve got my hand closed and my palm down and I
reached behind toward Taylor. Our hands touched, and our arms crossed. That`s all I remember.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Your hand is behind her.
MUELLER (voice-over): It went behind her and her hand went behind me, but our hands touched and our arms crossed at one point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So here`s what`s happening. The DJ is suing Taylor Swift for $3 million claiming that her allegations against him got him fired from
Denver`s KYGO Radio and ruined his career. Full disclosure here, KYGO is a CNN affiliate.
And CNN correspondent, Scott McLean, was in court today, he`s been covering this. He joins me from the courthouse. So it seems like everything sort of
comes down to that photo, but isn`t there any other evidence as well that bolsters either of their cases?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so, Ashleigh, first a quick correction. David Mueller actually said today in court that he is not suing
for $3 million. He is suing for whatever the jury determines is a fair amount in this case. That number comes from a damage assessment by an
expert hired by David Mueller`s lawyer that Mueller is now distancing himself from.
Now, you asked about evidence, Ashleigh, there is not a whole lot in this case. There is that single photo and beyond that, there is a lot of he
said, she said. Swift`s side, Doug Baldridge is her attorney, today he meticulously picked apart point by point, you know, David Mueller`s
deposition trying to make the case that, look, you want your career back, you want your reputation back, then why did you tell 37 different people
about this incident?
You made yourself unemployable in this industry. Taylor Swift did not make you unemployable. He also brings up the fact that in court documents, the
story that David Mueller tells about running into his then-supervisor, Eddie Haskell, who said he was actually one who touched Taylor Swift
inappropriately, that never made it into court documents for more than one year afterwards.
But David Mueller`s side today tried to have some level of success in convincing the jury that Taylor Swift`s action or her camp`s actions, after
actually did lead to David Mueller`s firing. And they also bring up this point, Ashleigh, that, look, if the Swift camp and Taylor Swift thought
this incident was so serious, why did they not call the police?
BANFIELD: Well, that`s a great question, and I guess another question I have for you in terms of evidence, maybe we`re not there yet in the trial,
Scott, but when something happens and it happened to me, actually in Pakistan.
It happened to me, my reaction was, I was appalled, disgusted, I jumped away, and I called for some help from my friends, then my colleagues who
were with me. Is there any evidence that Taylor said something immediately at the moment that was happening to anybody?
MCLEAN: So, she did say something a few minutes later, according to her side of the story, but she points out in the court documents that there
wasn`t a spare moment without a fan in front of her.
So she didn`t have very much time to actually make a complaint to anybody or to make a scene about it. The Swift camp also says they didn`t want that
picture to get out there. They didn`t want that photograph following her around --
BANFIELD: Good point.
MCLEAN: -- you know, for the rest of her career.
BANFIELD: That makes sense. I 100 percent hear what you`re saying because she`s in front of cameras and people. You can`t want to make a scene a lot
of times when this stuff happens. What about the stories that I`ve heard, you correct me if this is just gossip, but he`s told a lot of different
versions of what happened and they`re not all the same.
MCLEAN: That he has or she has?
BANFIELD: That he has told a lot of different versions of what happened. Is that true?
MCLEAN: So that is what the Taylor Swift defense team is arguing, saying that he`s told seven different versions of events. Now, this was cleared up
yesterday in the trial. At least that was the attempt that was made by David Mueller`s lawyer to rebut each of those seven things saying, look,
these are different ways to describe the same thing happening, they`re not changing the story. But I just want to go back to that photograph,
Ashleigh, in detail --
BANFIELD: Real quick.
MCLEAN: -- because Andrea Swift was actually on the stand today and she actually gave a very tearful account of when Taylor Swift came to her say
and said, hey, mom, I`ve been groped. She said, she wanted to cry and vomit at the same time. But Mueller`s lawyers asked her specifically about that
picture, with it in front of her, saying, can you concede at least that the front of her skirt is not being affected, that her dress is not ruffled,
that there`s no way that
[20:55:00] at that moment, at least, that his hand is up her skirt? And she does not give in. She says, no, actually it is out of place, the dress is
actually made of a stiffer fabric, and there`s no way it would come out at the side if you`re looking at the picture the way that it does unless
someone is touching it or moving it from the bottom.
BANFIELD: All right. Well, it will be interesting. I mean, fabric or not, it`s a little hard to tell, but it`s an interesting case. Scott McLean,
thanks so much. We`re back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Michael Cardoza, Taylor Swift or the DJ?
CARDOZA: If he had grabbed her, she would have jumped. If the jury votes for him, he`ll probably get a dollar. Doesn`t make any difference.
BANFIELD: Caroline Polisi?
POLISI: Team Taylor all the way.
CARDOZA: No, you`re wrong.
POLISI: What incentive does she have to lie? She`s America`s sweetheart.
BANFIELD: Thank you, guys. We appreciate it. Straight ahead, CNN films presents "GLEN CAMPBELL: I`LL BE ME." The legendary singer passed away
yesterday from Alzheimer`s. He and his family bravely faced that diagnosis. They shared his struggle. It`s an amazing documentary.
[21:00:00] "I`ll Be Me" begins right now. Thanks for watching, everybody. See you back here tomorrow night at 8:00 for PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
END
