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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Man Kills Wife, Gets Takeout for Two; Did Teen Kill, Bury Baby Girl?; Caught on Camera; Just Ruled Homicide; Investigation Underway; HLN Premier. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 14, 2017 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[20:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST (voice-over): Murder mystery in a mega-mansion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He keeps coming out of his house.
BANFIELD: A wife floating dead in a back yard Shangri-la. The neighbors call to 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... screaming, Call 911, help, help, help.
BANFIELD: But police say the frantic husband in the background? It was all an act.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He drove to a local restaurant, and upon his return, pretended to discover her body in the pool.
BANFIELD: Murder in New Jersey among the rich and the famous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help me! Help me!
BANFIELD: Prom is supposed to be a happy milestone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do believe that this occurred all within a few-hour period.
BANFIELD: But this cheerleader is accused of killing and torching her baby in a back yard fire pit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened and how she disposed of the body.
BANFIELD: Now she`s walking free on just $50,000, and many are asking if this is special treatment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was not something that was going to be accepted.
BANFIELD: In the blink of an eye...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your hands out of your pocket!
BANFIELD: ... a cop shot point-blank and survives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your hands out the pocket!
BANFIELD: But the tiny camera on his personal glasses may have been the linchpin to the case. And just wait until you hear what happened to the
shooter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Violence is not the answer (INAUDIBLE)
BANFIELD: A teenage girl vanishes walking her dog.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had her whole life ahead of her.
BANFIELD: Days later, she`s found dead in a landfill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I realize that this community has several questions as to why.
BANFIELD: They`re now calling it homicidal violence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have an unknown situation at this point.
BANFIELD: Yet cops are steadfast there`s nothing fear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is not a suspect or a person of interest.
BANFIELD: So how can they be so sure the community is safe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just don`t have that information.
BANFIELD: Being trapped in an elevator can cause panic, so when this man found himself stuck, he pressed that emergency button.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I knew that smell right away.
BANFIELD: The alarm worked, but no one came until one month later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They actually found a dead body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Hi, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
Full disclosure right off the top of the show. If you`re like me, you are guilty of it. In fact, I think we`re all a little guilty of it, driving by
palatial mansions of the very rich and imagining what life inside must be like. But anybody driving by Michelle and Norman Long`s house in New
Jersey should just keep right on driving, eyes straight ahead, because there`s no question that the Longs were living the dream, beautiful spread
with a manicured pool in the back yard that looks more like a resort than a rural home.
But what happened at that sprawling estate could be the subject of a Hollywood murder mystery. I want to rewind to June. A neighbor hears
screaming next door, seems out of the ordinary, so he calls 911. He thought maybe Mrs. Long was having a heart attack. You can even hear on
the 911 call what sounds like CPR going on in the background.
But there`s something else going on in the background, too, Mr. Long, in what seems like a panic, screaming for help.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, thank you very much.
911 OPERATOR: No, no, no, don`t hang up. Stay on the phone with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I won`t hang up. Keep pushing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Compressions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breathe, breathe. Help me! Help me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are on their way. The ambulance is on their way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help me! Help me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey (ph), buddy.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Michelle Long was found in that extravagant back yard pool floating face down, fully clothed. Her husband told police he had just
gone to Applebee`s that night to pick up some takeout for dinner for both of them, and upon his return, that`s how he found her.
But investigators say Norman`s story didn`t add up, especially when they discovered that Michelle actually had died from blunt force trauma.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN DALTON, GLOUCESTER COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Our investigation determined that Mr. Long killed his wife inside their home and placed her fully
clothed body in their back yard swimming pool. He subsequently drove to a local restaurant, and upon his return, pretended to discover her body in
the pool and advised first responders that she drowned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:10]BANFIELD: Norman Long now stands accused of killing his wife, but also of concealing the evidence in the case. Bert Baron is the morning
show host on WCTC radio, and he joins me from New Brunswick, New Jersey.
So Bert, why did the police think right away that they had, say, a crime on their hands, as opposed to, say, perhaps she hit her head? Because that
would be blunt force trauma, as well.
BERT BARON, WCTC RADIO (via telephone): Well, if you look at the very poor efforts by which Norman had attempted to cover this up by just simply
placing bloody towels in a kitchen trash can and thinking that he was concealing evidence or this was going to help him get away with this awful
crime, and also hiding a bottle of floor cleaner apparently in a dishwasher in the kitchen, and not a very good attempt at covering up his own tracks.
But since this incident happened in June, Ashleigh, the police in Jersey have looked at no one other than her husband, a history of violence there.
And this is now, unfortunately, her life has ended, and this is their guy. They have no other reason to search for anyone else or find any other
reason. This is where this investigation is going, and they`re working towards formally charging him with his wife`s murder.
BANFIELD: OK, so Bert, just indulge me, if you will for a moment. We were just looking at some of the video from inside the home. And I`m going to
ask our control room to go back inside the home. And there`s this virtual tour that you can, you know, do when a home goes on the market.
And this home was on the market. Apparently, there was a bankruptcy issue, and it was put up for sale anywhere between $300,000 and $500,000, which is
pretty surprising given how big it is, over 4,000 square feet, how incredibly beautifully appointed. I mean, this is the kind of home you
would never imagine a grisly murder would take place.
There are rooms that have their own anterooms. There`s a living room. There`s a family room. The family room has a family room. The back yard
pool has its own barbecue house, and yet still has dining areas. And it`s just sort of a spectacular spread.
And I think that might be why it caught our eye as we looked at these -- I mean, look at this. It seriously looks like a Hyatt resort and not
someone`s individual home, certainly not where a grisly murder might take place.
But Bert, as the neighbor overheard, it seems like there may have been some other proximity (ph). And I`m a little curious about that because this is
a sprawling estate. You can see from the aerials, neighbors aren`t too close. So how did a neighbor get involved in the first place?
BARON: This is true. And it`s a very wealthy area in suburban Philadelphia here in New Jersey, and the home is magnificent, like you had
said. New Jersey is an expensive state to live in, but there`s a lot of wealth here, too, Ashleigh. I mean, we look at the pictures of this home
here, it`s absolutely incredible.
But this 911 call where the caller says Norman was coming out of his house screaming, Call 911, and just sort of frantic screaming for help and,
Please help me. And you`re right, there`s a lot of space in between these homes here. So you can just imagine what the scene was like.
And you played some audio there earlier, just a frantic, frantic scene. And it`s no surprise as to why Norman was taken into this protective
custody and held for psychiatric observation in Trenton before the criminal proceedings went along. But...
BANFIELD: Look at this thing, Bert.
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: You`re -- yes, I think you`re seeing the same pictures I am. The helicopter view of this thing is just -- it just goes on and on and on.
There`s a beautiful pool house. You see that white tented area? That`s sort of an outdoor living room, but there`s also a whole barbecue fire pit
kitchenette roofed area a the pool you seen in that sort of the upper lefthand corner of your screen back then.
I want to play a little bit more of that 911 call. It`s pretty telling. There`s a lot you can hear sort of throughout, some clues, actually. And
I`m sure that they`ve pored over it pretty carefully.
But in this, the neighbor, the person next door calling 911, is actually describing Norm`s behavior. So if you can imagine, 911 thinks maybe
they`ve got a heart attack on their case and a husband. But now in retrospect, you can imagine what the prosecutors are trying to hear when
they -- they hear the description of Norm. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy comes running out of his house, he`s saying, 911, call help.
911 OPERATOR: OK. What`s going on? Do you know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He keeps coming out of his house screaming, Call 911, help, help, help.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Do you know if he needs the police or an ambulance?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. He keeps running out of the house. I don`t know if he`s cracked up or...
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: He`s not saying what`s wrong?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. And there was a guy who just walked up, and he actually was yelling for help because he heard it down the street.
911 OPERATOR: So there`s two people yelling for help?
[20:10:00]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he just went in the house. I don`t know where he`s at, but (INAUDIBLE) there must be an emergency in there
(INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Was it two people yelling for help or just one male?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it was just the guy that lives there coming out, yelling for help.
911 OPERATOR: OK. What did -- can you tell me...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I don`t know.
911 OPERATOR: Do you know his name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rick, what`s his name? Norman Long?
911 OPERATOR: Norman Long?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Norman Long.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BANFIELD: All right, so there`s the definitive ID right there before the EMS even gets there. Norman Long is the guy who has got all this behavior.
Now, I want you to listen to this next 911 call because this is also somewhat telling. Where does this whole heart attack come into play? Why
does anybody think she`s having a heart attack? Maybe this will give you the clue. Have a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Send an ambulance.
911 OPERATOR: What do they need an ambulance for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it CPR? Do you need CPR? Somebody had a heart attack.
911 OPERATOR: OK. All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right?
911 OPERATOR: Stay on the phone with me. Don`t hang up, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it`s the wife had a heart attack. Oh, my God. They`re coming, they`re coming, they`re coming! They`re coming.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep pushing, just keep pushing. Compressions, compressions. Compressions, go. Compressions. Yes, just keep pressure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Sean Dalton is the Gloucester County prosecutor. He joins me right now live. And if I can -- from Philadelphia, in fact. If I can ask
you, and I understand that you`re probably limited in some of the things you can tell me. But sir, it only appears that there was a bankruptcy
filing in April, that Mr. Long was self-employed as a construction contractor, but that that they`d been married 15 years.
Is there anything else we don`t know? Some marital discord that you`ve turned up, any sort of filings for divorce, any kind of domestic incidents
that have been reported?
DALTON: Well, this case is in the early stages, Ashleigh. This murder was solved as a result of good police work, and based upon the defendant`s own
statements, as well as the medical examiner`s report, as well as the evidence that we`ve collected to date, indicate that this was a domestic
violence situation of the extreme, which resulted in the death of Michelle Long.
BANFIELD: So the blunt force trauma -- I mentioned this to Bert Baron, who was reporting off the top of this program -- if you fall and hit your head
and tumble into a pool, wouldn`t that also appear to be blunt force trauma? What am I missing?
DALTON: The medical examiner conducted his examination of Michelle Long`s body, and he found blunt force trauma to both the neck and her head, as
well. So it was in two areas, and that was consistent with a choking, strangling type of injury, which we believe resulted in her death.
We believe this happened prior to him going to Applebee`s, returning and then concocting the story that she had, you know, fell in the swimming pool
and accidentally drowned, and then his request to call 911, which, curiously, he did not decide to do himself but tried to get other people
involved.
BANFIELD: OK, So I`m just going to play devil`s advocate because I`m sure that`s what you are used to when you`re litigating these kind of things.
At 5:21, the wife has her last communication via text. At 6:11 PM, the last activity is discovered on the home computer. And at 6:59, the
husband`s truck appears to be traveling toward Applebee`s.
Inside the home, we understand paper towels with Mrs. Long`s blood were found in the kitchen trash can, that the hardwood floor cleaner bottle was
found in the dishwasher, as Bert already reported, and that blood was located on a section of the hardwood floor near the kitchen, possibly
having been cleaned up. At least, they certainly identified that it was likely blood.
Why is it so implausible that an intruder may not have committed this while Mr. Long actually was at Applebee`s?
DALTON: Well, the defendant gave a statement, and he indicated that when he left the residence, his wife was on the computer. He said he left -- he
couldn`t pinpoint it, but somewhere between 6:30 and 7:00 o`clock. A mile from his house, at 6:59, he`s shown going to Applebee`s. Based upon our
investigation, she was last on the computer at 6:11. So basically, there was a 45-minute window between when she was off the computer and he`s seen
going to Applebee`s, which we believe this crime was committed.
[20:15:02]His statement was self-serving. He tried to narrow the window at to when she was on the computer, when he went to Applebee`s. But based
upon his own statement as well as the medical examiner`s report, and as you mentioned, the evidence that was collected at the scene -- her blood was
found...
BANFIELD: What about a will? Was there a will or an insurance policy that you`ve been able to dig up anywhere?
DALTON: At this point, Ashleigh, I can only comment on the public information provided to date. I can`t go into all the evidence of the case
at this point. We can only provide the information in the affidavit of probable cause. And we have a hearing scheduled this Wednesday in order to
detain Mr. Long and keep him in jail pending his court date in this matter.
BANFIELD: Totally respect that. Can`t blame a girl for trying. But I do appreciate, Mr. Dalton, you coming on the program tonight. And we`ll be
watching on Wednesday to see what other details come up. And we appreciate your time. And also, my thanks to Bert Baron for his reporting tonight, as
well.
Tonight in Denver, a jury has ruled in favor of Taylor Swift in her counterlawsuit against a former radio deejay that she claimed groped her
during a pre-show photo op. David Mueller (ph) sued Taylor Swift, not only Taylor by her mom and one of her employees, too, because he says he was
fired from his $150,000-a-year job at KYGO (ph), which is a CNN affiliate. He claims that those three had pressured his employer to let him go and
that`s why he sued her.
But Swift countersued him, saying that Mueller assaulted her, grabbed her, quote -- and I will quote Ms. Swift -- "bare ass" during the encounter.
Just hours ago, the jury handed down its decision, finding that Taylor Swift, her mom and the radio liaison were not liable for Mueller`s firing.
So now Mueller`s going to have to pay. And guess how much? Exactly $1 in damages. That`s all, apparently, Ms. Swift was asking. Sounds like it was
more about her honor than her bank account, at least if you look at the actual figures.
A teen mother secretly pregnant, and now she`s accused of killing her newborn daughter, and not only burning but burying the remains of that
little baby in the back yard. New outrage tonight because, somehow, she is out on a very low bond and people want to know why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:21:15]BANFIELD: In just a week, a former high school cheerleader was on course to start her freshman year at the University of Cincinnati. So
she should have been busy these past few days and weeks gearing up for moving out, you know, buying the sheets and the towels and preparing really
for the next big step in her life. Instead, Brooke Skyler (ph) Richardson is stuck at home on a $50,000 bond, contemplating a next step that she
likely never imagined taking, a murder trial.
She`s on house arrest, charged with killing her own newborn baby. Investigators say they got a tip that Skyler may have been secretly
pregnant and may have secretly made that baby go away. They say she not only killed that baby, she burned the child and buried that little girl in
her own back yard in a desperate cover-up, all of this happening just days after senior prom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID FORNSHELL, WARREN COUNTY, OH, PROSECUTOR: The general allegations against her are that some time during the night of May 6th to May 7th,
2017, that she did give birth to a newborn infant and that she caused the death of that infant. She subsequently burned the infant and buried the
infant in the back yard of her own residence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Melissa Neeley is an anchor and reporter for 700 WLW. She joins me live from Cincinnati. Melissa, that is a big charge, aggravated murder.
And if this baby, if the remains were two months old, how can they be so sure that this was an actual murder, when, as I understand it, they don`t
even know how the baby died?
MELISSA NEELEY, 700 WLW: You`re correct. The prosecutor has even been quoted as saying they can`t. They will never be able to determine exactly
how the baby died. So that is going to be a problem for them in this case because they cannot determine the exact cause of death.
And of course, the defense is coming back and saying that the baby was stillborn. And you do have a doctor that had reported the case initially
to the police as a stillborn. So I definitely think that that could be an issue for the prosecution.
BANFIELD: But at the same time, Melissa, while the coroner is saying -- and I`ll quote the coroner -- "We may never be able to tell in a vacuum
through science how the baby died due to the condition of the remains, unfortunately." They are also saying that evidence presented to a grand
jury is that she purposefully caused the death of the child.
Are they holding back some information? Because they`ve got to know something if they`re making that leap.
NEELEY: Yes, they definitely are. They have been very tight-lipped about the details of this case. What we know has been mostly from -- leaked
through people through the community because the prosecution has said very little. In fact, we were hearing leaks about the story before the
prosecution even came forward with many of the details that we now know.
So one thing that we do know is that they have now done tests on the body and have determined that the body was a girl. So they`re now calling the
victim in this case -- they`re calling her baby Jane Doe.
[20:25:14]BANFIELD: Jane Doe, right? So I want to just play something quickly from the prosecutor in the case. This is David Fornshell -- pardon
me if I`m not getting the pronunciation right. He`s the Warren County prosecutor. And he`s talking about the notion of this -- this pregnancy
being a secret. Apparently, classmates didn`t know that she was pregnant. It`s unclear who knew. But it seems as though her mother may very well
have known. And here`s how the prosecutor put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORNSHELL: I think this was a situation -- I think the evidence supports this -- that Skyler (ph) and her family, particularly her mother, were
pretty obsessed with external appearances and how things appear to the outside world. And you have a situation where, you know, she`s a cute high
school grad, recent high school graduate. She was a cheerleader, a described good girl by her attorney, as you heard after the arraignment.
And I think that kind of perception is one that Skyler (ph) wanted to perpetuate and her mother wanted to perpetuate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I want to bring in clinical psychologist Chloe Carmichael. She joins me now, as does former prosecutor Dan Schorr. Dan, first to you.
Aggravated murder -- this is a very serious charge. They`ve got to know something. They say that they know this baby was alive for a few hours.
And I`m wondering if it`s a forensic issue of actually finding clues in the house, as opposed to the forensics of the remains. Maybe there was
surveillance. Maybe there`s a baby`s, you know, cry heard on -- how on earth could you determine this?
DAN SCHORR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Right. So if the prosecution`s charging that, they obviously have some evidence they haven`t revealed publicly.
And it could be evidence of killing the baby, such as blood somewhere, something that`s inconsistent with a stillborn baby. Blood (INAUDIBLE) is
consistent with a homicide, not with a stillborn baby.
Or maybe there`s a statement by the defendant here that they haven`t talked about publicly, or maybe even thought the baby was burned beyond able to
tell the cause of death, maybe they`re still able to tell there was homicidal violence involved in the death. They haven`t revealed their hand
yet, but to bring a charge like this...
BANFIELD: They got to know.
SCHORR: ... they have to have some evidence that they believe is important.
BANFIELD: So Dr. Carmichael, there is this also -- there is a piece to this case that might help to link some things, maybe not completely. But
an OB-GYN is reported to have called the police with a tip saying that there may be a teen with a stillborn. And on the same day that that tip
came in, police went to this home, found the remains, you know, in the back yard. And it is also reported that this OB-GYN had a relationship with
this young teenager. And when I say relationship, I mean professional, as a doctor.
So there are a lot of things that sort of come into play here. If a young person is seeing an OB-GYN and at the same time hiding pregnancy from, you
know, her peers and those around her -- and I don`t know if she was hiding pregnancy from the family. Didn`t seem to be that way. There has to be a
heck of a lot more playing out in this case than just a scared teenager.
CHLOE CARMICHAEL, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, there certainly does. It seems really telling, the prosecutor`s words, that the family seemed so
extremely concerned with appearances to the point where they may have engaged in almost a group denial of the fact that this was even happening
in the first place because it just felt so unacceptable to acknowledge this in any way.
BANFIELD: Does panic sort of take over, and then your irrational brain concocts a whole other life?
CARMICHAEL: Absolutely. Absolutely. I was thinking about that, that they are -- they`re pleading innocent, and yet it seems pretty shocking and
horrific. It`s quite possible, as well, that a person could even be disassociated, that a person could be so panicked and so horrified by
what`s happening that it`s possible that this may have happened, yet she doesn`t remember it.
BANFIELD: So there -- you know, the -- as the media covers these stories - - and Dan, you`ve been covering them for a long time -- you have the Jodi Ariases of the world, you have the Casey Anthonys of the world, and
everybody just sort of descends upon these stories, gobbles them up almost as though, A, they can`t believe what they`re seeing, or B, they`re happy
it`s maybe somebody else.
And I`m just wondering if this is the kind of story that you`re seeing, given the facts, the actual facts that the prosecutors are talking about in
these early -- often -- that might have the makings of one of those sort of massive tell-alls (ph).
SCHORR: Right. Whenever -- there`s a stereotype of who commits a murder, who kills a baby, and that stereotype is incorrect very often. In this
case, you have...
BANFIELD: She`s a cheerleader. Look at her!
SCHORR: ... an attractive 18-year-old cheerleader, and in fact, crimes are committed by people that you wouldn`t expect. And here it`s an interesting
story because it`s shocking to people for a number of reasons. But the prosecution feels confident in their case. I`ve had a lot of cases that
I`ve prosecuted where there`s a psychological defense.
[20:30:00] And a lot of that evidence can be brought in as mitigation in sentencing. But still she took very precise actions.
BANFIELD: Yes.
SCHORR: She burned the baby.
BANFIELD: Allegedly.
SCHORR: She definitely -- I think there`s a dispute about whether she killed the baby, but I don`t think it`s a dispute about whether she burned
the baby.
BANFIELD: Or she did it.
SCHORR: Right.
BANFIELD: There were other people living in that room, so we can`t say this is her --
SCHORR: OK. But the defense was saying that this was a stillborn baby, but there was very intentional action taken here to cover up what happened. And
that`s the important part about countering a psychological defense.
BANFIELD: No matter how you slice it, this is just a sad, sad story on so many levels for that baby, for this teenager, for this family as well, and
for the community living and knowing what may have happened next door.
Hold your thoughts for a moment. I want to take you to South Carolina for a moment. There`s some unbelievable -- there`s really no other way of putting
it. Just unbelievable video of a police officer as he typically putting his life in danger, goes ahead and confronts, and then is shot by a suspect.
All of this was caught on camera because he bought a pair of sunglasses. Personally bought a pair of sunglasses with a camera attached. He did this
on Amazon. He said that they were the best $30 he`s ever spent. He was shot four times. He survived his injuries because I do want to warn you that
when you see the video, it may be very hard to watch for some.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dispatch echo seven. I will be out with that subject. Come here, man. Come here for a second. Come here. If you don`t -- you
better stop or I will -- come here. Come here. Stop! Stop! Stop! Take your hands out of your pocket! Take your hands out of your pocket! If you don`t
stop, sir, I`m going to tase you! I`m not playing with you! Take your hands out of your pocket! Take your hands out of your pocket! Take your hands out
of your pocket!
(GUNFIRE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired!
(GUNFIRE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dispatch echo seven. I`m hit. I`m hit. I`m hit in my neck someplace. My arms are broken. Help me, please. Please tell my family
I love them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Thank God, he is alive. But this man, Malcolm Orr, is not going to have a very good life. Was sentenced to 35 years in prison after a jury
found him guilty of attempted murder. Thanks in great part to that video.
Officer Smith, for his part, says that he has forgiven Mr. Orr, and that he is praying for Mr. Orr and his family. I want to also mention this. He said
he didn`t pull out his service revolver because he didn`t think he needed it. He now thinks that that was a miscalculation. Unbelievable story. We`re
so glad for that officer that he`s OK.
A Texas teenager is found dead in a landfill. The medical examiner says this is a homicide. Yet no suspect has been named. And fears are gripping
the community that there`s a killer on the loose, but the way the police are talking, it is just plain weird.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Teenagers run away all of the time. Sometimes they`re gone for minutes, sometimes they`re gone for days. In rare cases, they`re gone
forever. For parents, no matter how long the ordeal, every scenario plays out including the worst. For Kaytlynn Cargill`s parents, all of that was
true.
They called the police just 30 minutes after that 14-year-old had left to walk the dog. The officers didn`t believe that she had run away, didn`t
think that she had been kidnapped. And they remain steadfast even after her dog was found tied to a fence near a dog park and no Kaytlynn in sight.
Two days later, Kaytlynn was found here in a landfill about 10 miles from her home in Texas. And, yes, Kaytlynn was dead. Very strangely, police said
there was no threat to the public. And I`ll tell you, that did not sit well with the reporters who questioned them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would you say to families all across (INAUDIBLE) who see this case and think of their own children and wonder if there is
someone still out there who did this to Kaytlynn and who could be a threat to their kids?
JEFF GIBSON, CHIEF OF POLICE, BEDFORD POLICE DEPARTMENT: Right now, we have absolutely nothing that points to any risk to our community in terms of
further danger. We have an unknown situation at this point. There is not a suspect or person of interest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well then how can you say there`s no threat to the community?
GIBSON: We have no information that leads us to believe that this is an ongoing situation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So if you don`t know, if a lot of it is an unknown situation, how are you so comfortable telling the community that there`s
nothing to worry about, if it`s that big of a mystery?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What solid thing could you say to the community that gives them no worries? What happened to her and how did she end up in a
landfill and how was she taken there? Did she end up in a dumpster, you know what I mean?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How does that happen without an offender somewhere?
GIBSON: Let me close by saying this --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, sir, you`re saying you don`t know if this is a child predator, you don`t even know if she was assaulted sexually. So, if
it is a child predator, which are often repeat offenders, how can you tell the community, you don`t have anything to worry about?
GIBSON: What we can tell you is we have nothing that points to what you`re indicating at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe that she was killed by somebody?
GIBSON: We simply can`t answer that question. We just don`t have that information.
[20:40:00] Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: I`m as confused as you. And now nearly two months after Kaytlynn went missing, investigators have released her cause of death. And it`s
homicidal violence. Yet, they are still sticking with the story that there is no threat to the public even though no arrests have been made, no
theories, no more information, and this little girl is dead. Homicidal violence.
Andrew Greenstein is a reporter for News Radio 1080 KRLD. He joins me from Forth Worth, Texas. It doesn`t compute, Andrew. Homicidal violence, yet
nothing see here, everything is fine. What`s going on down there?
ANDREW GREENSTEIN, REPORTER, NEWS RADIO 1080 KRLD: The only thing that I could possibly think of that the Bedford Police Department is saying that
there`s no danger to the community is that they might have information that it could be a family member. Now, we do not know that for sure. We don`t
know if it was a family member. We don`t know if it was a stranger.
The Bedford Police Department has been very, very tight lipped about the whole thing. And until we know that it is someone who may be connected with
Kaytlynn Cargill`s family, which again we don`t, until we do, I don`t see any way that the people in that apartment complex could possibly feel
comfortable.
BANFIELD: Or here. I`m in New York City. And I feel uncomfortable about this. I just want to read something even more recent since it`s been about
two months since Kaytlynn disappeared and then subsequently was found dead in a landfill.
This was from August 10th, just four days ago. It`s from the Bedford Police Department. It`s a news release saying, we are aware that this ruling --
I`ll remind you, it`s homicidal violence -- may raise concerns with the public for their safety. The Bedford Police Department would like to
reassure the public, based on the information we have at this time, there is no threat to the public.
So, again, Andrew, it`s just extraordinarily curious. I get it. If you want to pinpoint a suspect and get more information, you stay a lot more quiet.
You don`t hold a news conference and then just scare everybody. Is this sort of bad policing or is this actually crazy like a fox?
GREENSTEIN: Well, Ashleigh, what I can tell you is that segment that you read from that news release, that was given to all of us in the media once
the Tarrant County medical examiner`s office released that the death was a homicide and caused by homicidal violence, yet we still don`t know anything
more specific than that, all of us made a beeline to the Bedford Police Department.
We were all in the lobby waiting to talk with someone from the department or my radio colleagues to get them on video and for myself to get them on
mike, and a lieutenant gave that press release, a portion of which you just read, just handed us a sheet of paper with those words on it and refused to
talk to us.
BANFIELD: Well, now that makes more sense, because they don`t want to go through what they just went through, facing down the press who were just
aghast that they were being told, here`s a poor girl who is dead in a landfill, but you`re all OK.
Let me bring in Dan Schorr. As a former prosecutor, I think you get it.
SCHORR: Yes.
BANFIELD: I think you know what`s going on, at least the mechanics of what`s going on. But if you have somebody pinpointed, say a young friend or
family member, why would you go about it in this way? Because this scares the living daylights out of people.
SCHORR: There a few different possibilities. And other thing to notice is the medical examiner ruled it to be homicidal violence, but the police
department is saying there`s no concern for the public at large.
Sometimes, the medical examiner looks at physical evidence, but they don`t look at the totality of the facts that the police know about, maybe cell
phone records, maybe text messages, maybe other information, maybe the police are drawing a conclusion based on a wider batch of information.
That`s one possibility.
BANFIELD: OK. So, here`s something else that I thought was weird, the cause of death is homicidal violence, the manner of death is homicide. Does that
not sound strange?
SCHORR: That`s from the medical examiner. The medical examiner is looking - - obviously there`s some kind of physical injury that is leading to that conclusion.
BANFIELD: The cause of death is usually, you know, couldn`t breathe anymore, thus strangulation.
SCHORR: We don`t know --
BANFIELD: Manner of death is the homicide, the suicide. You know, this sort of thing. But this seems weird to me.
SCHORR: We don`t know the type of injury. We don`t know what kind of -- what is the condition of the body was in when she found in this trash
place. So we don`t know. Was the body brought there? What condition was the body in? Was it damaged at some point beyond injuries?
BANFIELD: Yes. Homicidal means some man or person did this.
SCHORR: Right, but once again, that`s the medical examiner`s conclusion based on the physical evidence of the body, but the police may have other
evidence to determine that maybe there is no threat out there, maybe it was an accident, maybe it was self-inflicted, maybe they have another
conclusion. They are not revealing the other evidence they have. It`s possible that other evidence could be consistent with not being a threat to
the public.
BANFIELD: I hope we get information on it soon because it gives me the willies to hear about a little girl in a landfill
[20:45:00] who was just out walking her dog.
An elderly man dies alone in a parking garage elevator. How on earth did it take almost a month for anyone to respond to the emergency alert button
that he pushed twice?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: When you step foot on an elevator, does it cross your mind, am I going to get stuck in here? Because a lot of people have that fear. And in
Denver, we don`t know if Isaak Komisarchik had that phobia as he took a walk near his apartment and got into an elevator in a parking garage
[20:50:00] less than a mile away from where he lived. But the reality for this man was that he did leave that elevator alive. The records show that
82-year-old man pushed that red emergency button inside the elevator not once but twice. But nobody came. Eventually, someone did come. And Isaak`s
decomposing body was found because they came a month later after people living in the apartment complained about a terrible odor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH PALMER, ISAAK KOMISARCHIK`S NEIGHBOR: I knew that smell right away because working for a pest control company, I knew the smell of dead rats,
unfortunately. Have you figured anything out about this horrible smell? And, he said, yes, we figured it out. They actually found a dead body. And,
I said, you`re kidding, right? That`s a joke. He said, no, I`m not kidding.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: It was no joke. The elevator company that oversees the complex said it actually did respond to Isaak`s emergency calls. The problem is the
people dispatched to check the elevator checked two of the three elevators in that parking garage. The one that Isaak was stuck inside was the third
elevator in a part of the building that was under construction. And for whatever reason, that elevator did not get checked.
Clinical psychologist Chloe Carmichael is with me now, as is former prosecutor Dan Schorr. Dan, before I even get into this, there`s a
statement I want to read from the apartment building management where this happened. I think it`s only fair that they have their say.
They`re not responding on camera, but they said this. We are saddened by the tragic loss of life and extend our deepest condolences to Mr.
Komisarchik`s family and friends. The elevator cab where he was found is located in a parking garage that is under renovation construction and not
currently in active use. We are continuing to investigate the circumstances surrounding the incident with the local authorities.
It sounds like a civil case to me, and it sounds like a slam dunk civil case to me, but I`m not a lawyer. I`m almost wondering if there`s anything
criminal here?
SCHORR: There could be a criminal case here, but you`d have to have special circumstances like someone, for instance, took an intentional act that led
to the death even though they were --
BANFIELD: What about just the pure negligence of not checking the third elevator?
SCHORR: Well, someone has to actually do something intentional like change the policy so they don`t change the third elevator or disconnect at some
communication device, they didn`t check the third elevator. Just being not careful enough wouldn`t subject them to criminal liability.
But civil liability definitely would be a fight here. It`s so tragic because there`s no indication that he was dead from getting stuck in the
elevator. He was calling for help. So if someone came promptly, he probably would have survived this. Definitely, it`s a breakdown in the system here.
It`s a horrible tragedy.
BANFIELD: It is. Dr. Carmichael, it`s a tragedy, and we see these kinds of things happen. But when it involves an elevator, all of a sudden people get
constricted when they hear the story and it makes a bigger headline. I`m trying to figure out what it is about elevators in particular that cause
anxiety for people who heretofore would not have anxiety.
CARMICHAEL: Right. It`s called cleithrophobia. It is fear of enclosed spaces.
BANFIELD: Cleithrophobia.
CARMICHAEL: Yes. The fear of enclosed spaces.
BANFIELD: Claustrophobia.
CARMICHAEL: That would just be a fear of being trapped in an area that you can`t get out. Even like an open shopping mall, you could actually have
claustrophobia. But cleithrophobia is fear in closed spaces. And this particular gentleman also had -- was beginning to show signs of dementia.
So, his experience, his fear and anxiety may even heightened his confusion. I found the fact that he actually only pressed the call button twice to be
pretty interesting. I think many of us if we were trapped in an elevator --
BANFIELD: Hundreds of times.
CARMICHAEL: Exactly.
BANFIELD: They often make sound. I mean, you can hear an alarm bell. I`m not sure if this one did or not. I wondered because the dementia is the
other truth that may have been in existence. That is that he may have not had such concern. He may have forgotten why he was there and may have, you
know, I hope to God for his family`s sake quietly slipped away.
CARMICHAEL: It`s absolutely possible. Sometimes also when we go into shock, we can even just pass out and be unconscious.
BANFIELD: It`s so incredibly sad. When I say slam dunk, Dan, is it?
SCHORR: For civil liability?
BANFIELD: Yes.
SCHORR: Certainly there is a breakdown in the system here. You have to look at what were the protocols that they were supposed to follow. Were they
documented? Did someone fail to follow them or the wrong policy procedures been in place?
When they were under construction, did they take into account if someone could have gone in this elevator? What are they going to do in that case?
That`s what absolutely to look at. Something went wrong here because someone is dead who should not be dead.
BANFIELD: OK. You know, our thoughts go out to the Komisarchik`s family --
SCHORR: Absolutely.
BANFIELD: -- because that is a tragedy and it is just so scary to think that that can happen as well.
[20:55:00] Thank you to both of you. Quick note, next Monday, my friend, my neighbor, S.E. Cupp is launching a brand-new show called "Unfiltered." Its`
new on HLN. It is going to take on today`s top stories in only a way that S.E. can deliver.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, HOST OF UNFILTERED: In my career, I haven`t at least fit into a box. I`ve been called too conservative or not
conservative enough. But I`ve always been honest and I`ve always been unfiltered. Putting political correctness ahead of common sense is
(INAUDIBLE) people disaster. There`s no safe space in the real world. It`s time to confront our differences civilly instead of pretending they don`t
exist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: S.E. Cupp "Unfiltered." New nightly show starts Monday at seven on HLN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: My thanks to Dan and Chloe. Thank you, everyone, for watching. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. We`ll be right back tomorrow night here at 8:00
[21:00:00] for PRIMETIME JUSTICE. Stay tuned right now. "THE HUNT WITH JOHN WALSH" begins right now.
END
