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Barcelona And Cambrils Attacks Could Have Been Bigger, Police Say; Barcelona And Cambrils Attacks Linked To House Explosion In Alcanar; Barcelona Attack Eyewitness Describes Van Attack In Las Ramblas; One-on-One Interview With Mayor of Barcelona; President Trump's chief strategist out of the White House. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired August 18, 2017 - 15:00   ET



MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone and welcome to a special edition of the "WORLD RIGHT NOW." I'm Michael Holmes in London.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Becky Anderson for you in Barcelona where we are covering a major terror investigation.

HOLMES: Now you've been watching CNN's coverage of a seismic shakeup in Donald Trump's White House. Chief Strategist Steve Bannon has been fired

and we will have much more on that later this hour.

But first, back over to you -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Thank you, Michael. Here in the heart of Barcelona, people are trying to make sense out of a senseless tragedy. Just over 24 hours ago, a

vehicle terrared down Las Ramblas 500 yards behind me here where I stand leaving a trail of destruction and more than a dozen dead.

A few hours later, another attack, this time 100 kilometers away in Cambrils. Five attackers drove a car into pedestrians killing one person.

A witness filmed what happened next, and I have to warn you, you may find this video disturbing.


ANDERSON: Remarkable stuff. (Inaudible) southwest of here, Barcelona, all five attackers were killed. Four were shot by the one policeman.

Authorities say they had planned to use explosive devices to wreak greater havoc.

I want to get straight to Cambrils then where that latest attack took place. Our Isa Soares is there. Isa with the very latest for us.

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, good evening to you, Becky. You know, looking behind me, it does look like it's business as

usual. People are out. This walkway by the beach is so busy, the beach to my right and to my left, you have the yachts.

That people are really showing here some of the resilience and defiance in the wake of a terrorist attack that happened here. But just, as you are

saying, highlighting here, a car, an Audi A3 driving down this main motor way here, this main road here.

At very high speeds tell me locals, and many, many of the restaurants telling me the same thing as they came to this round about, Becky, where I

am, they came face to face with the police patrol.

They hit the car because the police wouldn't let them go through straight to Main Avenue. That then locals tell me that cars hit over and that's

when a gun battle then ensued between those five attackers and the police.

Police then shot four of the attackers right here behind me where the video you played showed a clip of that and then one of them continued down that

Main Avenue, Becky, and the clip that you saw there where he was saying, (inaudible), get down, get down.

This man, who like he was wearing a suicide belt. We know that that was fake. Authorities then said no, they were told -- he was to lie down, he

didn't, and then that's when he was shot.

People here really applauding the police, the bravery and the heroism of their police for the way they behaved and how fast they were in dealing

with this.

And now we have been hearing from local police who say, they are working on the theory, Becky, that one of the individuals that were killed, was shot

here, that perhaps one of them was the man behind the van that mowed down so many people in Las Ramblas in Barcelona where you are.

But authorities clearly focusing trying to put this piece of the puzzle together and focusing on Alcanar that building where we saw an explosion

late on Wednesday. When that happened, not many people knew what exactly was behind the explosions.

Now police are connecting those three locations believing that perhaps Alcanar could be the house where the cell was based, where they were

operating, and we have video showing some of the canisters of butane gas that were found there.

So that is how police now operate here and that's how they -- what they are focusing on now -- Becky.

ANDERSON: A complex web for authorities to pick apart. Isa in Cambrils, some 70 off miles, 120 kilometers down the coast to the southwest of where

I am here in Barcelona.

[15:05:12] Well, the wave of terror that rocked Spain actually started with that house explosion that Isa was describing on Wednesday.

CNN's Anna Stewart now pieces together the story with this timeline and a warning once again viewers there are some graphic images and graphic

content in this piece that may disturb you.


ANNA STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sirens followed screams, people fleeing the scene of a deadly terror attack in

Barcelona. Hours later, reports of a shootout in Cambrils.

Now it emerges the attacks maybe linked to another incident a day earlier. On Wednesday night, shortly after 11 p.m., an explosion was reported at a

house in Alcanar, few hundred kilometers south of Barcelona.

It levelled the building, killing one person. Police now believe all these incidents maybe linked. Around 5 p.m. on Thursday, a white van veered off

the road on Barcelona's Las Ramblas beach (ph), a busy tourist destination.

The van drove at high speech hitting pedestrians enjoying a late afternoon stroll leaving 13 dead and more than 100 injured in its wake. Authorities

say the driver left the van escaping on first.

A massive police manhunt is now underway. Three hours later, the first suspect was arrested, described as a Moroccan-born Spanish national. By

9:30, a second arrest was made. This time in Alcanar, the scene of Wednesday's house explosion.

Then in the early hours of Friday came another devastating attack, in a sea-side resort of Cambrils, south of Barcelona. Authorities say five

attackers wearing fake suicide belts drove a black Audi into pedestrians, killing one and injuring several others.

Police say all five terrorists were killed in a shootout. Friday morning, a third suspect was arrested in Ripoll, north of Barcelona. A fourth was

then arrested later in the day.

At noon, Spain felt silent, a minute of reflection and prayer of the more than 24 hours of terror. Anna Stewart, CNN, London.


ANDERSON: Well, joining me now is someone who witnessed what unfolded. Eyewitness, Liam Searle (ph), here with us now and it must feel incredibly

surreal if we hear this Friday evening, the city of Barcelona once again on the move.

There's certainly a sense, a sort of depression here. You would expect this to be a bustling Friday night in the middle of all of this big tourist


You were on Las Ramblas yesterday just over my left shoulder here when this attack unfolded. Just take me back, what did you see and what happened?

LIAM SEARLE, EYEWITNESS, LAS RAMBLAS ATTACK: So, I was on my way from my friend's house to my home. I take the same journey down that route every

day, four times a day, and I had my headphones and listen to my music -- and I was in my skateboard, yes.

So, I was in the road. I wasn't actually on wherever on walks and I was kind (inaudible) while I listen to my music, on my way home, and then to my

left, I hear like sudden noises and then a lot of screaming.

And then like a loud bang, which was when the car hit the kiosk, and at this point, I was still looking straight ahead with my phones, and so at

this point, I heard what had happened.

Like I heard it from my left, but I still kind of was not aware, you know, and 2 seconds later that I saw everyone from the bars and the cafes just

start running for their lives. Everyone looked absolutely terrified like I've never seen anything like that.

ANDERSON: I've heard that scene described as a tidal wave of people, just trying to escape in herd. Does that sound familiar?

SEARLE: Yes, definitely. It was hundreds, if not thousands of people trying to run into buildings down the streets and a lot of other streets in

the area are very small and tight.

And for a lot of people running down them it's hard to have like -- it's hard enough (inaudible) other people here we've seen over because the roads

are so small. So, it was just chaos like for the first 5 minutes, it was absolute chaos.

I jumped off a skateboard and followed. I just ran because there was no building to my right. It was just like the brick wall on the street, and

I'd already kind of passed the street so I jumped off my board and picked up and started running.

[15:10:11] And I first tried to get inside a bit and the door was shot and then I (inaudible) like panic moment, I just froze, and then saw that

everyone was filing into the gift shop next door.

ANDERSON: Had you realized at that stage what has occurred?

SEARLE: Not at all because I didn't look behind me when I was running. I didn't turn around and look behind me. All I heard was the crashes and the

screams and then I saw everyone running and I did the same. You know, I didn't even take a glance behind me to see what was happening --

ANDERSON: Men, women, and children?


ANDERSON: Thrown out of the way. Did you reflect now, we are what, 24 hours on pretty much just over and you can consider as I say that occurred

just behind us here, what are your thoughts?

SEARLE: I mean, I'm quite surprised they've re-opened the Ramblas to be honest. I thought that it would have been close really for another day.

At the same time, everyone has kind of come together as more like a community, you know, and everyone supporting each other.

And if you go down the Ramblas now, everyone has laid candles and flowers for those who were killed and I think everyone has kind of come together.

It's definitely brought everyone (inaudible).

You know, everyone has been putting post on Instagram and things like this like saying we are not afraid and --

ANDERSON: Are you afraid?

SEARLE: No. Not really, like I feel safe again now to be honest. Everyone is out and about like doing their thing, you know, and I feel

safe, yes.

ANDERSON: You've been living here. You're British. You've been living here I understand for a year and a half. It doesn't pick you off. You can

get through this, right?

SEARLE: Yes, definitely. I think I definitely want to go home in the next couple of weeks just to obviously see my family and friends back home, but

I'm not after -- I've told like I want to stay in for another couple of years definitely.

ANDERSON: So what is your message to people who commit an atrocity like that? You're involved.

SEARLE: I mean, I don't really know what to say like it's quite a shock to see it all happen, you know, and every time I see these from the news, I

never quite understand what their meaning is of why do it.

You know, but every time they do commit an attack like this, it seems, as though, it effectively I assume brings everyone together. The same

happened in London and the same happened in France.

Everyone came together and really like show that it didn't affect them in the slightest. So, I mean, yes, I'm not affected by it. I mean, what I

saw was what I saw and I mean, they are still on my mind at the moment, but I feel safe here definitely.

ANDERSON: I know you hadn't any sleep in about 40 hours, I'm going to let you go, but you know, what you are seeing is an awful thing that nobody

should ever see and put you through, but you'd be all right.


ANDERSON: Liam, thank you for joining us.

SEARLE: No problem. Thank you.

ANDERSON: And as Liam was describing, people have come together here in Barcelona. Memorials at the top of Las Ramblas and I just want to show you

some images, candles, flowers, messages left to the victims of this terrible, terrible, terrible crime.

As we forget the people involved, so many have lost their lives, so, so many more injured in this. Just one of what we now understand to have been

these three incidences over the last 36 hours, which has brought terror on the coast of Spain.

Now back over to my colleague, Michael Holmes, who is in London for you this evening -- Michael.

HOLMES: Yes, moving stuff. Becky, thanks so much.

And you are watching a special edition of the WORLD RIGHT NOW. Still to come here on the program, trying to understand terrorism and how to fight

it, it's very difficult for most of us. We'll get some perspective from an expert when we come back.



HOLMES: Welcome back, everyone. Citizens from 34 countries are being killed or wounded in those heinous attacks in Spain. Thirteen people died

in Thursday's van attack in Barcelona. One woman died in a separate incident in the town of Cambrils.

Earlier I spoke to the mayor of Barcelona, Ada Colau.


HOLMES: What is the mood in your city today in the wake of all of this?

ADA COLAU, MAYOR, BARCELONA (through translator): The mood and the feeling in the city is (inaudible) from the one hand is being upset. On the other

hand, we are really angry about this brutality, (inaudible) is unjustified.

There are no words to describe our fames (ph) we've got in the heart of the city so much damage caused (inaudible) and so many people injured even

children and so many people who are injured. Some of them seriously injured.

So, we are really, really upset about this and there is also a feeling of total solidarity with the victims and also the family members. The city is

working together, helping to all levels.

The emergency services, the police services, and also the citizens have come out to provide help. The taxi drivers, hotels have offered to shelter

people. People have gone donate blood.

So, the whole citizens, all the citizens have provided support and today we saw the strong feelings spread with the minute of silence in (inaudible)

where thousands of people (inaudible) wanted to walk out to regain and take back our streets and to say that we are not afraid.

That we have no fear. Barcelona is proud of its model of living together in diversity, fighting always for peace, human rights and democracy

anywhere in the world and also in our city.

The city open to the whole world. The cosmopolitan cities that welcomes everyone so let these cowards and miserable people who committed these

terrible crimes that we are afraid and we walked out into the streets to send this message clear to them.

HOLMES: How well prepared are security services? Yesterday, we talked to witnesses who said before this happened, there was a big police presence

and yet this couldn't be stopped and witnesses even said they almost expected at some point their city would be targeted.

COLAU (through translator): Well, it is true that we knew that Barcelona could be a target. We are an international well-known city. It is true

there was heavy police presence in Las Ramblas and (inaudible) cities, but there is a 100 percent security especially with this kind of attacks.

HOLMES: And that's the thing, isn't it? When you consider Las Ramblas, a beautiful, popular place for tourists, but they on foot and it's so open a

target. I'm curious, do you think that places like that should be blocked off from vehicle access or do you think that is perhaps surrendering our

way of life?

COLAU (through translator): Concerns like these were expressed clearly by (inaudible) with the attacks in Paris or Canne (ph) in London.

[15:20:05] I think that all cities have reacted in a similar way while this coward minority who have committed these crimes what they want is to

(inaudible) in fear, to give up our public spaces, to give up our model of diversity and living together. So, we cannot allow these. Otherwise, it

will be their victory.

HOLMES: Ada Colau of Barcelona, thank you so much for your time, a very difficult time for your beautiful city. We thank you.

COLAU (through translator): Thank you very much and I like to thank you for all the international solidarity we are getting. Mayors from all over

the world have shown their support and also the media so thank you for all the support we are getting. This gives us strength and help us continue in

keeping our model of life for peach. Thank you very much. We know Barcelona is not alone.


HOLMES: The mayor of Barcelona there. Let's get some perspective now in everything that's going on. We want to play just a little bit on terrorism

in a wider stance.

Tom Wilson joins me here in the studio for that in London. He is a fellow at the Center for the Response to Radicalization and Terrorism, and the

Center for the New Middle East at the Henry Jackson Society.

Great to have you here. You know, one thing that struck me yesterday while we were covering this was the number of people we are speaking to said

there were police and security everywhere in Barcelona. They noticed it before this happened and yet, this couldn't be stopped.


in the U.K. and from other European cities as well, which is you can put (inaudible) on top.

You can have more police out. You can even put the military out in the streets, but realistically, unless you put airport-style security around

every public venue, you can't stop these attacks at the end point, you have to try and be more preventative about disrupting them much earlier down the


HOLMES: And there has been some success in that too. We are going to give the intelligence services credit there.

WILSON: Definitely. I mean, Spain has been particularly successful at that. I think that last year, they disrupted something in the number of 10

Islamist plots. So, you know, they are having a success rate. They just can't stop every single plot when they are being formed at this rate.

HOLMES: And when they are so simple and in this case, it seems that most of the attackers as far as we know were on the radar as agitators or

potential terrorists.

When they are not on the radar, it makes that much harder for the intelligence services, doesn't it? And how -- what about the capabilities?

You don't have to be that capable, do you, to get a truck and drive it?

WILSON: Exactly. To get a truck, to get a knife, and that is the point of this new strategy. There was a conscious decision on the part of jihadists

that we've seen with the Islamic State to move away from the al Qaeda motto, which is very taught down, very sophisticated, highly structured,

but much more easy to detect and therefore disrupt.

This is meant to be about organic, about small cells, even just individuals taking the initiative upon themselves to decide to do something and that's

much harder to predict in the part of the security forces.

HOLMES: Which comes to the argument that a lot of people make, which is, you know, you stop it before it starts, and that -- you know, that comes

back to social issues and disrupting the message, the ideology, the narrative, if you like. And the conditions that make people susceptible to


WILSON: Well, exactly. I don't think that anyone has an entirely successful or concrete model for doing that. I think here in the U.K.

three of the government's counter extremism strategy, there is a sense this is where (inaudible) this is increasingly needs to be focused.

And Spain has also had such programs that had some success with it. We haven't yet worked out what is an entirely concrete strategy for

integration and counter radicalization.

HOLMES: When it comes to Spain, and you mentioned, I mean, they had a number of plots disrupted. A lot of jihadists were arrested before they

even got to go to jihad in Syria and Iraq.

But a lot of analysts say that the country is -- Barcelona is a bit of a hot bed for organizations of other attacks, and parts of a coast of hot

beds of Salafism, and why is that?

WILSON: Well, the major cities, Madrid, of course, has a major al Qaeda cell operating in the mid-2000s and Barcelona in particular in terms of

Salafist preaches has been a particular hot spot.

And on the other major for Spain is of course, (inaudible) this enclave by Morocco, and it seems that many of the individuals and the suspects in this

plot had Moroccan origins.

And again, you come back to this issue of people who have moved to Europe and yet haven't integrated into the values of a liberal society.

HOLMES: You know, obviously, in this case too, you know, we've talked a lot about lone wolves, this was a bigger cell. Does that say anything to

you? Do you think there are more them out there?

WILSON: I think that was surprising because even in the case of the London Bridge attack, we saw (inaudible) only three people. Often there is these

self-stacking single individuals.

The size of this cell looks closer to the one that we saw in Belgium, Brussels, (inaudible) cell that carried the Paris attacks.

[15:25:05] And that, of course, had more top down direction from the Islamic State. I think it's a worrying trend. We will wait and see if

they were directed from, you know, the high command in Syria as they were.

HOLMES: One thing I want to ask you too before you go because it's (inaudible) we saw it in London as well, fake suicide belt, what's the

point of that?

WILSON: Well, I think that's interesting. I think there is clearly the desire to be able to manufacture suicide belts. These people are amateur

self-starting jihadists. They don't know how to, but they would like to be able to scare the public and the security forces enough to appear that they

are wearing that kind of sophisticated device.

HOLMES: Truly for show and to perhaps keep people back or --

WILSON: Exactly. It gives them an added sense of power and fear that they may be able to take control of the situation particularly a hostage

situation more effectively.

HOLMES: Fascinating. Tom Wilson, thanks so much for coming in. Appreciate it. Some good insight there.

Now this is a special edition of the WORLD RIGHT NOW. Just ahead, we are going to focus on the day's other breaking news, the U.S. president has

fired Chief Strategist, Steve Bannon.

Presidential historian, Larry Sabato, and CNN political analyst, David Gergen are going to join me to explain what this means for Donald Trump's

White House.

And CNN's coverage of the terror attacks in Spain will also continue with Becky Anderson live from Barcelona. We'll be right back. Stay with us.


HOLMES: Welcome back, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes. We'll continue our coverage of the terror attacks in Spain with Becky Anderson in just a


But we want to turn now to breaking news out of Washington you may have heard of, President Trump's chief strategist, Steve Bannon, out of the

White House, fired. A source telling CNN he was given the option to resign but was forced out and if you are asked to resign, you are pretty much

being fired.

His ouster has been rumored for some time, but sources tell CNN Mr. Trump was furious over Bannon's interview this week in which he contradicted the

president on North Korea and asserted he could make personnel changes at the State Department.

Bannon's exit comes just seven months after Trump took office, three weeks after Retired General John Kelly took over as chief of staff.

Let's get more with David Gergen, CNN's senior political analyst and former White House adviser to four U.S. presidents, and also Larry Sabato, the

director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. A pleasure to have both of you, Gentlemen, with us.

David, let's start with you. You know, the big question, of course, is why and why now and how much is it related to the new chief of staff cleaning

house perhaps?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you, Michael. It's good to with Larry Sabato. I think it's much easier to explain why Bannon has

been forced out than what it means. Clearly, there wasn't enough room in the White House for both Steve Bannon and the new Chief of Staff General

Kelly. Kelly forced him out in order to bring more order into the White House a greater sense of peace, if you would, of more integrated staff.

And it's also now become obvious that President Trump has not enough room for the two egos (ph). President Trump has resented it when Steve Bannon

seems to be portrayed as, you know, the manipulator and chief and the manipulator of the President. What it means I think is a much, much harder

question. And I think that's going to bring -- temporarily, it will bring more order.

But it's important to remember Trump is still President, and he is an uncontrollable force. We found out a lot of the chaos and the spewing of

hatred come from him, himself, not just the people around him. And I think that there are now -- this team has been in place seven months, and in

seven months, eight key players in the White House have been forced out or have been encouraged to leave. That is the biggest kind of turnover that I

can remember in any modern White House.

HOLMES: Yes, absolutely. (Inaudible) most recently, I mean maybe you're right, it's a long list. There was a piece of video we're looking at

earlier of Donald Trump in the White House in the Oval Office and just about everyone surrounding him in that video is now gone which says

something really. I think we're going to roll that now and people can have a look at it.

Larry, let's bring you into the conversation. You know, I'm wondering what blowback there could be from the fire right now. I mean we saw already one

of the Breitbart senior editors put out a tweet and basically it was a tweet that gave a date and then just said, #WAR. Has the right lost one of

men in the White House and is the White House going to pay for it?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS: Probably, this is a very unusual presidency, and again, Dave Gergen, a surrogate for White House,

seems more qualified to comment on it. But I would say generally speaking, it's a good thing that Bannon has gone for lots of reasons though not

necessarily the one that's been sided . It's kind of ironic that he's being fired apparently over an interview that he gave.

Yes, he contradicted White House policy. He should have been fired for all of the really bad advice that he has given to President Trump. I think

reinforcing Trump's worst instincts and David is absolutely correct in suggesting that those instincts are still there and they're going to

manifest themselves over and over again during the Trump presidency because Donald Trump either wouldn't change or can't change and it's probably a


HOLMES: Yes. And David, it's interesting, we talked for months now about, you know, when Republicans will split from the President. What's been

interesting in the last couple of days certainly since a Charlottesville -- you know, you've got like Tim Scott, the only African-American Republican

in the U.S. Senate. He said that Donald Trump compromised the moral authority of his office. You've got Bob Corker, another Republican

Senator, and he had this to say. Let's have a listen.


SEN. BOB CORKER (R), TENNESSEE: The president has not yet -- has not yet been able to demonstrate the stability nor some of the competence that he

needs to demonstrate in order to be successful.


HOLMES: And so, David Gergen, you know, we used to say it would make a difference when they started to name the President in their criticism. Can

you see splits distancing starting to develop?

GERGEN: Absolutely, especially if the President's approval ratings remain low, he has -- you know, Machiavelli said, a prince has to be either loved

or feared. And if you have to choose, it's better to be feared. Donald Trump is neither loved nor feared these days and the Congress I think is

going to make it more difficult for him to govern.

I do think, Michael, one thing perhaps does is worth discussing is that with the departure of Bannon may bring more orderly kind of communication

on Foreign Affairs. You know, he's been a disruptive force just most recently this interview he gave saying basically on North Korea, he was

totally contradicted the President's policies and the President's, you know, defense chief and NSE (ph) chief and so forth had to go out and, you

know, correct the record.

So, the countries may find more order but I do think that Trump is still Trump, and he is not parallable (ph) and I do think that when a Senator

Corker who is so respected comes out and put on the line, he questions the President's emotional and mental stability, that's significant.

HOLMES: And Larry Sabato, I mean have you seen anything like this? I mean we're not even through year one yet. All the departures, the firings, the

chaos, the, if not mixed messaging, mixed tone that's coming out of a variety of areas of the administrator, where do you see this headed?

SABATO: Well, I think it's already headed for disaster. In fact, you could argue that that's where we are right now. Three and a half years is

a long, long time to put up with a president like this. I agree with David, Bannon has been a disruptive force, but the number one disruptive

force in the Trump White House is Donald Trump. He's not changing, and these Republicans were criticizing him all well and good, but they need to

follow it up with action. They have to send a message in concrete terms to Trump, maybe by voting against him key matters that are really important to

him. Maybe it's why some Republicans like Lindsey Graham and others starting to talk seriously about an impeachment inquiry or encouraging the

25th amendment to be invoked. Maybe it will never happen, probably will never happen, but Trump doesn't listen to words. He will, at least

occasionally watch and respond to actions.

HOLMES: David, you know, you know White House better than most. I mean did you see the President becoming increasingly isolated in a way? I mean

he's lost some of these advisers, not necessarily ones that he particularly trusted or liked all that much, but, you know, you've got business people

leaving him to the point where the commissions were disbanded because everybody was starting to leave. We've got this GOP critics now, you've

got -- and you've got some of the more conservative media starting to turn as well in their messaging. I mean you had -- you had the James Murdoch

donating money to the Anti-Defamation League. I mean how isolated is he and how much more, I don't know, unpredictable is that going to make it.

GERGEN: He's increasingly isolated. It reminds me, frankly, of course, the final days of the Nixon administration, Nixon presidency. I've worked

in the White House. And, you know, when business CEOs turn their back or distance themselves from the president, it makes it much harder to deal

with tax reform or the infrastructure reform as a political matter and the Congress.

You've got down various groups who have had conventions or gatherings schedule in Mar-a-Lago in the Trump state down there and they're pulling

out. There are a lot of -- there are a lot of very influential people who are pulling out and that could just enrage the president.

One of the answered questions, and Larry would be really good on this, is whether in -- with Bannon leaving and the bright and going to bright bar,

and there's a major donor in American called Robert Mercer who has apparently been talking to Bannon that will be supportive of Bannon over

bright bar, but the bright bar people believe that with Bannon leaving, there are no serious conservatives in the West Wing of the White House.

Instead, what I say is there a bunch of Democrats or former Democrats, a bunch of Wall Street types and there are a bunch of hawks. They don't like

any of them. So, it's possible, and I think this is the danger Trump faces right now politically is that the conservative movement may break apart

over just whether Trump is conservative enough. And some people who will stick with him and there may be other people who will not. That could

definitely affect his overall standing and his capacity to get things done in the Congress.

HOLMES: And Larry, we've got a couple of seconds. If you could speak to that too that the damage that's being done, I mean even the core is

starting to fracture a little bit or it's peeling a little, but what damage is done to the Republican Party through all of this?

SABATO: Well, you could argue that the Republican Party will be much better off when Donald Trump lose along. But Dave is correct about this,

about the conservative movement. What has been keeping Trump afloat, the almost cult-like nature of the 35 percent or so that believe the sun rises

and sets on Donald Trump. If they start to fracture and Breitbart is going to encourage the fracturing then what is it exactly that will keep Donald

Trump afloat?

HOLMES: Yes. And the party itself. Larry Sabato and David Gergen, wish we have more time, we do not. Thank you so much both of you.

SABATO: Thank you.

GERGEN: Thank you.

HOLMES: All right. Well, most of the blistering backlash the President is facing is being related much recently anyway to his response to that

violence in Charlottesville. Well, to-date, the mother Heather Heyer, the young woman, you remember, who was killed while protesting the white

nationalist rally there is adding her voice to the criticism. Susan Bro says, she has no interest in speaking with Donald Trump.


ROBIN ROBERTS, HOST, "GOOD MORNING AMERICA": We understand that President Trump has reached out. Have you talked to him directly yet?

SUSAN BRO, HEATHER HEYER'S MOTHER: I have not, and now, I will not.

I'm sorry. After what he said about my child and it's not that I saw somebody else's tweet about him. I saw an actual clip of him at a press

conference equating the protesters like Miss Heyer with the KKK and the white supremacists.


HOLMES: Let's go back now to Barcelona where we find out Becky Anderson to continue our coverage of the terror attack there, Becky.

ANDERSON: Yeah, thank you very much indeed. It was Thursday, it was 5 pm when chaos broke out here in Barcelona, a van driving erratically down Las

Ramblas, a boulevard just over my shoulder here about 500 yards away and that's atrocious attack. Families who dove (ph) for cover was separated,

and the friends lost each other in the panic. This seven-year-old Sydney schoolboy is among the missing.

Family members say Julian Cadman was separated from his mother who is now in a stable serious condition in a hospital here. The boy's father is now

en route to Spain from Australia. And the family of American Jared Tucker has confirmed that he was killed in the attack. He was traveling with his

wife who survived. This photograph of the couple was taken aback now before the attack. Well, here in Barcelona, people are back on the

streets, trying to get life back to some sort of humanity off of the Thursday's horrific event. Arwa Damon has more. I'm going to warn you,

some of the video in her report is very graphic.


ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At a small makeshift memorial on Las Ramblas, there is a Mickey Mouse DVD with a note. "You were in the

world for such a short time."

It's almost hard to imagine that this is where such horrific violence took place until you look at the faces of those who pass by. Less than 24 hours

earlier, a van careened through this pedestrian street, cutting down tourists and locals. A moment frozen in time for those who survived, a

moment they expected to die.

Ouafa Mirani (ph) is from Morocco. She's lived in this neighborhood for 13 years and was here with her 3-year old. I thought that's it, I'm dead. I

just need to save my son," she tells us. She tripped, was injured and shouted at him to run. Authorities say it could have been so much worse.

DAMON: The sign simply reads, "Pray for Barcelona". And most people here tell us that they were bracing themselves for some sort of an attack but

that hardly lessens the shock, the sorrow or the impact. Police now say that they believe that this terror cell was likely planning something using

massive explosive power, not just vehicles, as a weapon.

DAMON: This is the working hypothesis. The explosives were being prepared in a house in Alcanar, some 150 miles from Barcelona. On Wednesday, the

house was destroyed in a massive blast. The police chief says the occupants appeared to have been trying to make explosives out of butane


Did that force the cell to bring forward their plans with the van attack that killed over a dozen people and wounded around 100? People are now

linking that attack with another that was thwarted hours later. In the seaside resort town of Cambrils, five men in an Audi rammed through

pedestrians then a shootout with police. One officer shot dead four of the attackers. A fifth ran off and was cornered. He shouted, "Aleppo," and,

"Allahu Akbar," appeared to be shot once but got up only to be shot a second time. He also died.

Authorities say they were wearing fake suicide vests and had an ax and knives in their car. The investigation will go on, just as the pain caused

by these attacks will endure. Relatives now have to cope with the loss of their loved ones. Some families like that of little seven-year-old

Australian Julian Alessandro Cadman are still looking for him. His mother is in hospital. His grandfather reported him missing.

Ouafa (ph), who is Muslim, says, "What happened is not Islam." But she adds, "I'm afraid people will look at us differently." The posters and

messages speak of peace, solidarity against violence. But this is hardly the end of terror as yet another population adjusts to a new reality --

Arwa Damon, CNN Barcelona.


ANDERSON: Well, the attacks in Spain offered new lessons in the fight against terror. Military Secretary General tells CNN terrorism must never

be the new normal. My colleague Michael Holmes has that interview up next.

HOLMES: Welcome back, everyone. World leaders have offered strong words of support for Spain in the wake of the terror attacks. Jens Stoltenberg

was Prime Minister of Norway during the 2011 white supremacist terror attacks by Anders Breivik. And now, he is the Secretary General of NATO.

I asked him earlier, what the people and political leaders of Spain are going through.

JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO Secretary General: They're going through very hard time because they have suffered a very brutal terrorist attack. But we

have to remember that those most affected are those who have lost their loved ones, those who have lost family members, close friends and all those

who have been wounded. And this just reminds us of how brutal and meaningless this kind of terrorist attacks are.

HOLMES: I'm curious in your role now, what role does NATO have in terms of the fight against terror, you know, what practical advice are you able to

give to member countries about protecting against this and other kinds of attack?

STOLTENBERG: NATO has played and is playing a critical and key role in the fight against terrorism. Our biggest military operation ever in

Afghanistan is about fighting terrorism, preventing Afghanistan from becoming a safe haven for international terrorism.

We are also stepping our efforts in the global coalition to fight ISIS and we are just establishing a new division on intelligence, for intelligence,

to improve the way we collect, understand and share intelligence. But military means NATO is, of course, not the only answer to the terrorist

threat. We need the police, we need the intelligence and at least we need political and diplomatic efforts to try to solve many of the conflicts that

are fueling terrorism around the world.

HOLMES: Yes. And when you look at some of the attacks we have seen, East Berlin, London and so on, similar attacks using vehicles, low-tech attacks,

as some would say, are you surprised that a pedestrian street like Las Ramblas was open to traffic or there's sort of closing off places like that

play into the aims of the terrorists?

STOLTENBERG: I think in the long run, there is no way we can close the cities. We can't close everything and have physical barriers that protect

us 100 percent against terrorist attack. So, we are going to live with some risks, but we must never, never accept that terrorism is going to be

the new normal.

And we have to remember that European Security Services have been able to detect and prevent many terrorist attacks. And what we have seen in Spain

during the last days just underlines the importance of staying vigilant and stepping of the efforts to fight terrorism.

HOLMES: It's interesting to say, we shouldn't let it become the new normal and we say that all the time, but is it not the new normal when you look at

how many of these, you know, sorts of attacks have happened almost identical ones? It's something that could happen next week in another

European capital?

STOLTENBERG: You're right that we have seen many terrorist attacks and we hope to be prepared for also more attacks, but when I say it must not

become the new normal, it means that we should never accept that this is some kind of a state or situation we should accept to live with. So, we

have to continue to fight, continue to mobilize against terrorism.

HOLMES: Jens Stoltenberg speaking to me earlier. We're going to take a short break and when we come back we'll take you back to Barcelona.

ANDERSON: Well, authorities here in Spain working to unravel what is a complex web of terror. That's a memorial to the victims here in Barcelona

grows on Las Ramblas. Melissa Bell has been watching (inaudible) when she joins me now. Those memorials have recently evolved, haven't they, over

the past 24 hours.


ANDERSON: And there are happening.

BELL: Around every tree, Becky, around every lamppost now on Las Ramblas, you see cards, flowers, candles, and it isn't just the memorials and the

emotion of people who have come to pay their respect but to begin to grieve to get over what they lives through yesterday for those who were affected


It is also the sort of soul-searching that you see in every European city of these events about things like immigration policy, things like how

terrorism is dealt with, how the threat should be dealt in the future. It was a very public debate down there today. There were hundreds of people.

There was a demonstration by right-wing activists. They were counter demonstrations. At one point, there were fistfights which led to sort of a

massive movement of people in the scenes of panic that we've seen yesterday. A reminder really of the fact that here in Barcelona having

lived through what it lived through only yesterday, things remain extremely tense, people are very nervous and still slightly shell-shocked by what

they live.

ANDERSON: Well, it's fascinating that you say that, you know, in some of what you've just described might surprise of you but that is life getting

back to normal as well, isn't it (inaudible)? So, those are the conversations that are had -- that are being had in these cities across

Europe as we see this sort of litany of familiarity which is these attacks in major cities across Europe and the U.K.

To the investigation, if you will, Arwa Damon's report just 4 or 5 minutes (inaudible) just as its web (ph) as it were. Now, the police have to deal

with more of these now and are ongoing operation.

BELL: And ongoing operation and so many questions that remain, but a much clearer focus tonight than we had even a few hours ago, Becky. We now know

that the efforts of the police are really concentrated on this house, Alcanar, where there's explosion took place on Wednesday night, where it is

now believed, and this is the sort of hypothesis that they're working on, that a far bigger terrorist attack or series of terrorist attacks might

have been in the planning and this accidental explosion as these butane canisters were assembled to try and form some sort of crude device caused

the house to explode.

One person had been killed, we knew that already. They are now investigating whether the remains of another person in house, who were the

other residents, those are some of the key questions since it is now believed that had that explosion not happened then perhaps it would not

have precipitated the events that we saw here in Las Ramblas and then, again, a few dozen miles away,

ANDERSON: Yes, in Cambrils close to a city called Tarragona, many of our viewers may have visited it if they've visited this wonderful country of

Spain. So, it's the authorities (inaudible) looked to the idea that these are now all linked one perpetuators because we are talking about a cell, if

not, more?

BELL: It's not more. For the time being, authorities are saying very little about the men that they've arrested, four people, three Moroccans,

one Spaniard, we know that they were not on the police radar, which is interesting because here in Spain, all of the country had not been affected

by the sort of attacks we've seen elsewhere.

There have been many arrests, many raids over the years, the level of -- the threat level had been raised in 2014, again in 2015. These groups are

very much on the radar. This is something the Spanish police were keeping an eye on. And yet, these ones, the suspects for the time being at least

are not on their radar at all.

ANDERSON: Melissa Bell joining me here. This has been a special edition of the World Right Now. Thank you for watching. I'm Becky Anderson in


HOLMES: And I'm Michael Holmes in London, Breaking News coverage continues next on the lead with Jake Tapper.