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Trump Urges Unity After Angry Campaign Rally; Trump Campaign Aide Tried To Arrange Putin Meeting; CNN Tracks Down Central Player In Russia Probe; Kislyak Dismisses Allegations He Is A Master Spy; Kislyak Won't Comment On Meetings With Trump Aides; Hillary Clinton Opens Up about Election Loss in Memoir; Danish Police Find Journalist's Headless Body; Crowds Gather to Support Kaepernick; Princes Talk of Princess Diana's Death. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired August 24, 2017 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[01:00:00] ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Ahead this hour, two speeches, two very different presidents. One day, divider; next day, uniter. The teleprompter transformation of Donald Trump. Plus, he's not an easy man to find. CNN catches with one of the central figures in the Russia investigation for an exclusive interview.
VAUSE: And on the 20th anniversary of the death of Princess Diana, her son speaks openly about their grief and anger after their mother was killed in a car crash hammered by paparazzi.
SESAY: Hello, and thank you for joining us. I'm Isha Sesay.
VAUSE: I'm John Vause. This is NEWSROOM L.A. If it was Wednesday, it was the day to call for unity for Donald Trump because just a day earlier it with was divisive and defensive unscripted Donald Trump at a campaign rally in Phoenix. Notably, uniter Trump was using a teleprompter as he spoke to veterans in Reno, Nevada.
SESAY: There was no mention of Confederate statues, no attack on the dishonest media, and no threat to shut down the government if he doesn't get his Mexican border wall.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is time to heal the wounds that divide us, and to seek a new unity based on the common values that unite us. We are one people with one home and one great flag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: But the rally in Phoenix on Tuesday was just classic Trump unscripted. Off the teleprompter and in his element and loving it.
SESAY: He tried to defend his response to the recent violence in Charlottesville, Virginia, but left out the part where he equated neo- Nazis with counter protesters, and not surprisingly, he blamed the media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: For the most part, honestly, these are really, really dishonest people, and they're bad people. And I really think they don't like our country, I really believe that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Well, joining us now: Democratic Strategist, Robin Swanson; Trump Supporter and Host of the "America Trends," Gina Loudon; and Political Analyst, Michael Genovese. So, I thank you all for being with us. Michael, I'll start with you because every president, they show a different side of their personality, they adjust to the audience that they're talking to. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, they have head down to near south in Dixie, and they suddenly talk with middle-twining or a draw, but what we're looking at here with this president is someone complete, entirely different to that.
MICHAEL GENOVESE, POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, we're seeing the emergence of the real Trump versus the controlled Trump. And the real Trump tries to fly above politics and he's allowed to do that because his base is so adoring. But then, he has to come back to reality, and that reality means that he has to make deals and build coalitions, and that's what he's not very good at. He doesn't play well with others. And you could see that in his Tuesday remarks, in which he was attacking his own party, the party he needs to govern. Clearly, his base likes it when he goes after those folks, but just as clearly without those folks, he doesn't have a solid legislative agenda that's going to be passed. And therefore, his legacy is going to be very limited.
SESAY: Gina Loudon, to you, James Clapper, the former Director of National Intelligence actually said that what we see is a kind of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation when it comes to the differences in the president. I mean, how do you explain what we've over the last couple days? One day a unifier, the next day a divider?
GINA LOUDON, TRUMP SUPPORTER AND HOST: Well, I would say that you know, as I've said many times before, the swamp isn't going to willingly be drained. The swamp isn't going to drain itself. The swamp is going to continue to attack the person that they feel threatens the establishment that they have worked many years to build. And so, it doesn't surprise me at all that people are going to make these sorts of accusations. But as I have also said about this president many times, if he is crazy, he's crazy like a fox because he's been very effective without much of the establishment helping him, whatsoever creating more than a million new American jobs, lowest unemployment in decades.
I mean, there are so many things this president has accomplished, and his base is sitting around, watching some of us, you know, in the media, saying how about if you acknowledge maybe that his tactic with North Korea worked or how about if -- you know, when the media is one big chorus of, you know, boo Trump, never Trump, it takes away from their credibility then, when they do criticize. So, people who support the president tend to kind of put up a wall. And so, then when the president criticizes the media he is simply echoing the sentiment of middle America to them.
VAUSE: I want to bring in Robin, but I just want to fact check, Gina, right now. Yes, a million new jobs in first six months of President Trump. Jimmy Carter did 2 million jobs in the first six months. A million is good, but it's typical. So, that's the context here. But Robin, you know --
LOUDON: Private sector jobs are really key here.
[01:05:11] VAUSE: OK. Well, the New York Times, Robin, had an interesting point about Tuesday's speech in Phoenix. This was the story published a couple of hours ago: "While reporters declared this rally as one of the most caustic in the past two years, some White House aides said privately on Wednesday that they found some comfort in the fact that it could have been worse." Robin, how could this speech have been worse?
ROBIN SWANSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes. I mean, I don't know how he's supposed to unify the country when he can't have a unified message from Monday to Tuesday, coming out of his own mouth. But I think there were concerns going in. I mean, this was actually very deliberate by Donald Trump. He went in, he knew he was going to attack the two United States Senators. He couldn't have the graciousness to even extend some sympathy, some empathy for the senator who's undergoing cancer treatments right now for brain cancer of his own party. So, there's not a gracious bone in this man's body, and I could've gone worse. I think, you know, General Kelly has said that he wants the staff to put country before -- above all else, before Donald Trump. And I think the person he needs to have that conversation with is Donald Trump. Because Donald Trump puts himself before all else.
SESAY: Gina, on Tuesday, unlike Monday and Wednesday, the president went off script and for the most part did not use a teleprompter. Let's play a clip from Tuesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I hit him with neo-Nazi. I hit them with everything. I got the White Supremacist, the neo-Nazi, I got them all in there. Let's see. KKK -- we have KKK. I got them all. So, they're having a hard time. So, what did they say, right? It should've been sooner. He's a racist. It should've been soon, OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Gina, let's also remind our viewers, and you, I'm sure you know this, of what the president has said in the past about people who use teleprompters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Fact of a matter, if I would've known teleprompters, I would've them. I've started to use them a little bit; they're not bad. You never get yourself in trouble when you use a teleprompter. You know, the problem is it's too easy. We have a president who uses teleprompters, it's too easy. We should have non-teleprompter speeches only when you're running for president, and find out about people. The other way you don't find out about anybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: So, Gina, Donald Trump who isn't on the teleprompter, who casts insults, and who says things that are racially divisive, and as many people feel, you know, put out these dog whistles. Is that the real Donald Trump?
LOUDON: I don't hear the president say anything divisive. I heard him every single day misquoted in the media.
SESAY: So, when he calls the media, the enemy of the people, in fact -- when he'd called the media the enemy of the people and bad for this country, when he talks about they want to take away our culture when he says us and them, that isn't divisive?
LOUDON: Well, I think that the average American out there, I mean, as you know, the media's ratings are much lower. They poll much lower and I consider myself part of the media here, but much lower in terms of trust with the American people than the president ever has or probably ever will. I think there is a distrust of media, and I think having that conversation is OK. That we can say that. You know, we have become very much opinion news, all of us, myself included, we tend to talk more about opinions than facts.
And even when we, you know, are quoting the president and not really, you know, putting it in context or when I was quoting Obama you know, and focusing on the things I didn't like that Obama said. There does seem to be a focus on divisiveness from the media right now, that I don't think it's healthy for America. I think this president really does want to unify, and I think president really would like to have the help of the media and the Democrats to move America forward with the things that we agree on -- not necessarily that we don't agree on, by there are things that we agree on that we could be productive if we could work together upon. And I think that that matter has to frustrate him, and I know it frustrates Americans.
VAUSE: OK. We didn't really get an answer there, Gina, but it's (INAUDIBLE). I appreciate your point. So, Michael, is, you know, the things that Donald Trump said at Phoenix, us and them, the media doesn't like the country, is bad for the country. They're taking away our history and our heritage which is a dog whistle to the far right. They do seem to be, you know, words which divide a country, or said it doesn't help to heal it.
GENOVESE: You know, Abraham Lincoln said that power doesn't necessarily corrupt but it reveals. And I think in power, what is revealed by Donald Trump is he's the poster child for self-absorption. That entire speech was about him and his enemies and the people he was against. It wasn't about building the nation, finding the nation. it was about tearing people down, and that's right, unpresidential. It's also politically divisive and politically -- I don't think it's winning strategy. You can't play that hand for very long because people are going to want some results. And legislatively, he's got almost nothing to show.
[19:10:31] VAUSE: And it's not getting any better, because there is this report, you know, on Tuesday which came rather same time as the rally about this open warfare between the leader of the Senate Republican Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump, merely have been talking to each other for weeks.
VAUSE: McConnell pushed back on that a little bit. He released a statement. This is part of it: "The president and I and our teams have been and continue to be in regular contacts about shared goals. We have a lot of work ahead of us and we are committed to advancing our shared agenda together. And anyone who suggests otherwise clearly is not part of the conversation." You know, hands up anyone who actually believes this statement. But Robin, that at the very least, he's pretty half-hearted attempt to, you know, put the story to rest which is as big as this one.
SWANSON: Well, listen, I mean, Donald Trump does not know how to with members of his own party. We have a Republican White House, and we have a Republican Congress. There's no reason that he shouldn't be able to get his agenda passed, except for that he doesn't know how to work with other people. He would like to be a dictator. He is not. We have a democracy. We have equal co-branches of government. And I think for him, he's going to have to learn how to play well with others.
He's going to have to learn how to share his toys. He's going to have to learn how to actually think about policy in a way, and find a compromise with people that he doesn't always agree with. And he can't just continually insult people like he did on the campaign trail because that doesn't actually produce public policy that is good for the American people. So, for actually thinking about someone other than Donald Trump in this moment, he's going to have to take a completely different approach which may require a lobotomy.
SESAY: Sorry, that stopped me there for a second. Gina, to bring you in there.
VAUSE: A bridge too far on that one.
SESAY: The president's strategy when it comes to the likes of Mitch McConnell and other senators, and lawmakers who don't go the way he wants them to is one of attack, attack and public ridicule and chastisement. Is that a winning strategy or is he's just poisoning the well, and ultimately that's going to harm him and his agenda?
LOUDON: Well, these are the exact same reasons that this president was elected. Middle America out there, they have been having a problem with the establishment on both sides. I, myself, have been a very outspoken critic of my own party that I've always been a part of, and the establishment therein. And he echoes some of those sentiments, and so he is being the voice for those who, maybe, feel like they don't have a voice.
And so, when it's so bewildering to many in media or other elite spaces, why this president is so popular? This is why. This is why his base loves him because he does say the things that they feel they've never had a voice in. And if you look at the fact that Democrat fundraising, for example, has fallen completely felt flat. Those special elections have been won, 5-0 since this president was elected. You look at the kinds of numbers that are coming up that are real people speaking up about how they feel about this agenda, that this president has put forward, and their frustration with the establishment.
SWANSON: That's enough. Enough.
LOUDON: I think you'll see a pattern that says that he could very well win again just --
SWANSON: That's not at all -- that's not at all what he talked about. He had an opportunity to be presidential, you know, in Charlottesville, and he's taken it again, and again.
LOUDON: But presidential -- he didn't make fun of the word presidential. He has no desire to be your brand of presidential.
SESAY: One at a time.
SWANSON: And I would like to actually finish my thought. I attended the University of Virginia, and Charlottesville means a lot to me. And you know what we have at the University of Virginia, we had an honor code. That means you can't lie, cheat, or steal. If our president had to follow UVA honor code, he would've been kicked out last semester. So, I think --
SWANSON: It's just -- it's just a different ballgame. I would like to see a president who acts presidential.
LOUDON: So, you stand with the terroristic -- you stand with the terroristic Antifa people who are --
SWANSON: Excuse me?
LOUDON: Committing acts of violence every single day and you think that that's OK.
SWANSON: Excuse me?
LOUDON: I mean, here is the difference. If we're going to criticize -- I mean, I respect your criticism of this president, OK. You have a right to say what you believe. But my question for you is -- my question for you and you, and by the way, you interrupted me, my question for you is: what can you name one thing, one thing that you're not critical of that this president has done? I think if you would start to try, that perhaps, you would have a little more creditability then when you go making gross --
SWANSON: He's going to have to earn it.
LOUDON: -- overstatements about a president who, by the way, was elected and is the president and probably will --
SWANSON: He was elected by not by a majority of Americans. Let's start with the --
[01:15:05] VAUSE: Anyway, let's not re-litigate the campaign. He's done a good job with the veteran's administration so far, OK. All this continues, you know, there's being in the Charlottesville violent, there's going to be the, you know, there's being the standoff with North Korea. There's been, you know, the president must be criticized response. There's been a new Afghan strategy. All of this has been happening at the same time the investigation into the Trump campaigns alleged ties to the Kremlin is continuing. CNN's Manu Raju has been reporting on this. Here are some of the exclusive details which he's managed to learn. Here's a part of his reporting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Congressional investigators have unearthed this e-mail from this top Trump aide that references previously unreported effort to arrange a meeting last year between Trump officials and Vladimir Putin. Now, this is according to sources with direct knowledge of the matter. The aide, Rick Dearborn, the president's Deputy Chief of Staff, and former Chief of Staff to Jeff Sessions as a Senator sent this brief e-mail to campaign officials last year relaying information about an individual who was seeking to connect top Trump officials with Putin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: And Michael, so, you know, this doesn't directly implicate the president himself, but it does show that no matter what the president does, you know, this investigation is continuing on at a pace.
GENOVESE: Well, it's in the quiet phase right now. And we should not confuse the quiet phase for nothing happening. They're accumulating evidence. They're talking to people. They're bringing them in. And clearly, there are strands that could be tied together. And if so, the president might be in trouble, because the people beneath him, and it's getting closer and closer to the White House it seems, are going to be implicated in certain nefarious activities. We already know a few of them who probably quite greatly have hired criminal lawyers. And so, this is not going to go away. It's going to be there for a long time. We just need patience on this one because it's going to take a while.
VAUSE: This is a steady pace, it's a drumbeat. It's just continuing on and on, and this is continuous regardless of what happens in the circus during the investigation. GENOVESE: Low drama, but high consequence.
VAUSE: OK. Michael, again, thank you so much. Gina and Robin, also thanks to you both.
SESAY: Thank you. Thank you.
VAUSE: Thank you so much.
SESAY: We appreciate the lovely conversation.
LOUDON: Thank you.
SESAY: Let's take a quick break here. Next on NEWSROOM L.A., as U.S. investigates Russian meddling in last year's election, CNN tracks down the man who was at the center of some of the most explosive allegations.
VAUSE: And a gruesome discovery. (INAUDIBLE) raises more questions about what led to the death of a Swedish journalist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Mr. Ambassador, quick question: did discuss sanctions with any members of the Trump team when you were in the United States?
SERGEY KISLYAK, FORMER RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: Would you respect that I'm here to talk to Russian people?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: CNN's Matthew Chance with a rare a bit quick interview with Russia's former Ambassador to the United States, Sergey Kislyak. Perhaps the most forgettable man in the world who has been at the center of the ongoing investigation into possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Kremlin during last year's U.S. election. Former CIA Operative and now CNN Intelligence and Security Analyst, Bob Baer, join us. And Bob, good to see you. We should know that Kislyak actually did go on and answer a few more questions. The first one we're going to talk about were those accusations that he's a lot more than just a career diplomat. This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[01:20:21] CHANCE: What about this allegation that you're a spy master, a spy recruiter?
CHANCE: Did you recruit any members of the Trump administration?
KISLYAK: You should be ashamed because CNN is the company that keeps pointing to this allegation. It's nonsense. CHANCE: U.S. Security officials, Intelligence officials that made it,
KISLYAK: I've heard that in a statement by them, also by former head of the FBI who said that I was a diplomat. I have no -- no reasons to doubt that he knew what he said.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: OK. So, Bob, Kremlin denies Kislyak is a spy which is a shocker but is he?
BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think there's a long record of his being a spotter and assessor for the KGB or the SBR when he was of view and different postings and the rest of it, and that's where this is coming from. You see a lot of members of the foreign service, Russia foreign service, who actually work for the KGB. He could've actually, at some point, been in the KGB and gone over the foreign service, especially an ambassador. I mean, these rumors are not coming out of nowhere. In any case, there's no difference because Russian diplomats do answer to the KGB. This is a security state we're talking about, and they are not entirely independent. And frankly, American diplomats help the CIA. It's the way the game's played, John.
VAUSE: OK. Well, we know that Kislyak was -- that he met with various officials from the Trump campaign, that included the president's son-in-law Jared Kushner, and the former National Security Advisor, Michael Flynn. Matthew asked him about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: Did you discussed opening secret channels with the Kremlin with Jared Kushner, for instance?
KISLYAK: I've said many times that we do not discuss the substance of our discussions on American intellect out of respect to our partners.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: OK. So, you know, a very diplomatic answer there, but, you know, is that a yes from Kislyak? Because what I've heard is that, you know, Kislyak acted sort of in a very appropriate normal way. It was the Trump official which was kind of acting in an unprecedented manner.
BAER: Well, the Trump officials were. I mean, you know, in the middle of the campaign, the last thing you want to do is be in touch with the Russian ambassador or any Russians at all, whether they're proxies for the KGB. It's just something that politicians know better to avoid. And look at Kislyak, he's at the center of the whole thing. He was orchestrating this. He was coordinating with the SBR or the KGB. You know, there's no doubt in my mind -- look at the number of contexts, the context, and the fact that normally the Russian ambassador deals with the State Department, or the president of the United States doesn't get involved in the campaign. John, as I said, this whole thing just stinks. And you know, not that
I blame the Russians. I mean, they had an opportunity to get in touch with the man who very well could be the president of the United States or certainly undermine the credibility of Hillary Clinton, and they did what any intelligence agency does. I mean, the CIA would've done the same thing in Moscow, given the opportunity.
VAUSE: OK, just one more sound bite here, because Kislyak was also in the oval office when the U.S. president either intentionally or unintentionally leaked classified information. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: When you met Donald Trump, the President, were you surprised when he disclosed secret information to you about Syria?
KISLYAK: I'm not sure because I heard anything that would be significant. But that was a good meeting and we were discussing that were important to your country and to mine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: I mean, again, Kislyak would've known it was classified, right? Remember you heard that will (INAUDIBLE)?
BAER: Oh, it was from the Israelis, yes, and I'm sure he knew that. I mean, look, when you get information from another intelligence service, the last thing you want to do is hand it off to another intelligence service. There are the rules of a game, and Trump clearly didn't know that. You know, and you know, they know they're dealing with an amateur, and they took advantage of him. And since Trump doesn't listen to his advisers or at least the adviser that know they're talking about. You know, spilling secrets like this, is it a real surprise? No.
VAUSE: OK. We'll go with one more, quick clip here because Matthew did ask Kislyak about the relationship now with Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: Have you lost faith that Donald Trump is going to be able to do what he said during his campaign and make things better with Moscow?
[01:25:03] KISLYAK: I'm not sure that I operate with the definitions of faith, the absence of faith. We work with the United States based on the policies laid out. They are not new. We have seen so many different things about it. And I -- we are pretty comfortable with what we do Russia. And by the way, I'm here to do exactly what is important to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: You know, one thing which has struck me about this story is how surprised the Russians have been by the blow back from hacking into the U.S. election? It seems to me that they never expected this, and they never expected Trump to win.
BAER: Oh, I don't think they did, John. I think they intended to undermine Hillary when she got into the White House. They wanted investigations involving the Ukraine, you know, all of the e-mail hacking and the rest of it was to undermine her. And I think what there surprised the Russians, they were so catastrophically successful that they got Trump elected. And I think there's good evidence for that. And yes, they were surprised by the blow back, but they're also surprised that he's president of the United States.
VAUSE: I'm also wondering about Kislyak's own future, because how much blame will now fall on him for, you know, what -- first it seems like an incredibly successful intelligence operation, but now sort of has not worked out at all how they expected or hoped?
BAER: Well, even the Russians understand that it's Putin that was directing this operation. Kislyak was just taking orders. He's a very capable, you know, spy master/diplomat, whatever you want to call him. But he was just taking orders, and he was just too efficient and too successful and got around Washington too easily, and now has the Trump administration wrapped up in a scandal, which we've said all along is going to go on for a very long time -- a couple of years at least.
VAUSE: Yes. I was just wondering about Kislyak whether he's going to end up being, you know, the most successful fated man in Moscow or he's going to be the fifth Russian diplomat killed this year.
BAER: You never know, do you?
VAUSE: Bob, good to speak with you. Thank you
SESAY: All right. We're going to take a quick break now. Next, on NEWSROOM L.A., we'll hear from Hillary Clinton at the moment during the 2016 campaign when she considered calling Donald Trump a creep.
VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM, live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause.
SESAY: I'm Isha Sesay. The headlines this hour: (HEADLINES)
VAUSE: Those who win elections, write policy, and those who lose, write books. That's what Hillary Clinton is doing. She has written one entitled "What Happened." And in audio excerpts she talks about regrets and what she wishes she had done differently.
SESAY: Clinton also reveals how she felt during the debate when then- Republican presidential nominee, Donald Trump, kept standing behind her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HILLARY CLINTON, (D), FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE & FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): This is not OK, I thought. It was the second presidential debate and Donald Trump was looming behind me. Two days before, the world heard him brag about groping women. Now we were on a small stage and no matter where I walked, he followed me closely, staring at me, making faces. It was incredibly uncomfortable. He was literally breathing down my neck. My skin crawled. It was one of those moments where you wish you could hit pause and ask everyone watching, well, what would you do? Do you stay calm, keep smiling, and carry on as if he weren't repeatedly invading your space, or do you turn, look him in the eye and say loudly and clearly, back up you creep, get away from me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Let's discuss this now with former Clinton campaign manager and CNN contributor, Robby Mook.
Robby, so good to have you with us.
We always remember watching with discomfort from home as that moment Hillary Clinton is describing was taking place on stage during that second debate. Before you kind of give me your reflection, here's how Donald Trump described what happened. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was standing at my lectern. And all of sudden, from nowhere, she walks right in front of me. So I never walked near her. She stands right in front of me. The next day, it I was in her space. I was standing at my chair, at my lectern.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: So you hear Donald Trump there saying it's not as she tells it. He completely discounts it. But what is notable in the audio excerpts of book that Hillary Clinton is reading is that she is second guessing her decision to stay calm and not to directly confront then Candidate-Trump. From where you sit now, do you wish she had handled that moment differently?
ROBBY MOOK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's an interesting question. A lot of us, including Hillary, have spent time since the election thinking about what we could have done differently. There were so many factors in play in the election, I don't think any one thing would have changed the outcome.
But I think in that -- I found as well. I found that quote fascinating as well. I think what she is getting at there was that she was between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, I think she was held to a very high standard. She was expected to have a certain demeanor and conduct herself a certain way. And I don't think those same standards applied to Donald Trump. And we're seeing the price that we're paying for a president who conducts himself that way. So, gosh, it's hard to tell how people would have reacted. In retrospect, when you lose, you feel like you should have done
everything differently. So it would have made for exciting television. But I'm glad she is bringing up the question. It's a tough one.
SESAY: It is. She says in the book's introduction that, in the past, for reasons I try to explain, I have often felt I had to be careful in public, like I was up on a wire without a net. Now I'm letting my guard down."
Robby, as you well know, Candidate Trump hammered Hillary Clinton with accusations of being crooked and dishonest, and some of that mud he threw, some of that stuck. How well do you think her attempted honesty in this book will be received?
MOOK: Well, we'll have to see. I've read parts of the book. I haven't read the entire thing. I think the quotes that were released this morning, when she talks about how she knew a lot of people were depending on her and how she is having to live with letting them down, that is pretty candid talk. So I think there's going to be a lot in there for people to pour over.
And look, at the end of the day, she got three million more votes than Donald Trump in this election. So over half the electorate is waiting to hear from her. And every candidate I think should get out there and talk about their takeaways from this. I think it will be received very well in that regard. And I think a lot of people are looking forward to what she has to say.
[01:35:31] SESAY: Yes, she also makes clear that, you know, this book contains moments from the campaign she wanted to remember forever as well as others she wished she could go back and do over, which is what we touched on in the first part of this conversation. Are there key moments you hope she will reflect upon in this book that you think are critical to the understanding of why she didn't win?
MOOK: Yes, like I said, you know, in any honest analysis of this election there were so many forces at work. There was an electorate that was incredibly restless for change. There was her own long history of, you know, fighting for things she believed in and politics, which was definitely a plus, and sometimes was used against her. There were all these outside interventions that took place, whether it was that letter from the director of the FBI at the last minute, obviously, what the Russians did. So you know, to me, what I'm -- you know, I've read a little bit of it and I'm looking forward to seeing the entire work, is how she stitches those pieces together and, honestly, where we should go from here. Because it's important to look at the past and pull lessons but what is more important for all of right now is to figure out how we move forward and how we win elections moving forward and how we make this country work better moving forward. So I'm looking forward to that most, but I think you'll see all of that in there.
SESAY: I think it's interesting, you talk about, again, reflection being good but, looking ahead, what -- where the focus should be, if you will. How important is this book towards changing the public narrative around the 2016 election? I mean, does it matter to you whether or not it succeeds in that, as you talk about those bigger goals?
MOOK: That's a great question. I hope it does help with that. I expect that she'll talk about the enormous complexity and all the forces that were at work. I think a lot of times -- and I say this also as someone who ran a number of campaigns and, you know, have been through the ups and downs. Sometimes we just want that one thing. What was that one thing that caused this to happen? I think there were a lot of things that worked and a lot of rules of the game that just changed right in front of all of our eyes. And I think we're still living with those changes today. So I hope that, perhaps, for some people, this is an opportunity for them to close this chapter and to move forward into the future.
SESAY: Robby Mook, thank you so much for sharing your insight and thoughts on the upcoming book.
MOOK: My pleasure
VAUSE: We'll take a short break. It all started as a lone protest with NFL Quarterback Colin Kaepernick taking a knee. But now, a growing number of supporters are taking a stand for him. We'll explain why after the break.
[01:40:49] VAUSE: In Denmark, a major turning point in a case which has gripped the country with grim confirmation about the fate of a missing journalist.
SESAY: Danish police say a torso found washed up on an island near Copenhagen matches the DNA of Kim Wall.
David McKenzie has the latest on the investigation.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It should have been a routine assignment, but it ended in a gruesome tragedy.
(voice-over): It's a case that is deeply shocking and mysterious. Danish police confirming that DNA tests now prove the mutilated and headless torso found near Copenhagen is that of freelance journalist, Kim Wall.
Kim was last seen leaving port two weeks ago in the "Nautilus," a private submarine built by inventor Peter Matson. Police say Matson changed his story, first saying he dropped Kim on shore, then saying she died in an accident.
A cyclist found the body earlier this week. Now horrifying details are emerging.
UNIDENTIFIED DANISH POLICE OFFICER (through translation): There are some injuries on the torso, which seem to have been inflicted to ensure or attempt to ensure gases pass out of the body, so that it would float out to sea or it wouldn't float up from the seabed. Some metal had been secured to the body to seemingly ensure that the body would sink to the bottom of the sea.
MCKENZIE: Matson is charged with manslaughter, which he denies.
As a journalist, Kim traveled the world on dangerous assignments, but she died just miles from her home. And in an emotional tribute online, Kim's mother wrote, "It's still difficult for us to fully comprehend the extent of this tragedy and the many questions that still need to be answered."
Kim's mother wrote that her daughter gave a voice to the weak and marginalized and vulnerable people around the world. Now that voice is silenced
David McKenzie, CNN, London.
SESAY: Very disturbing, indeed.
Turning now to a situation in the United States, supporters of NFL Quarterback Colin Kaepernick are rallying in his defense, gathering outside the league headquarters in New York on Wednesday. Kaepernick took a knee for the national anthem to protest black oppression and police brutality. But his stance angered many in the country, who called him ungrateful and un-American. Kaepernick's supporters have called out NFL teams for not signing him, claiming he has been blacklisted for speaking out against injustice.
With me now, Anthony Tall, a criminal defense attorney and the founder of Aspire Sports Group.
Anthony, thank you for joining us.
ANTHONY TALL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FOUNDER, ASPIRE SPORTS GROUP: Thank you.
SESAY: I want to read you something that Sally Jenkins wrote, which I found fascinating. She said, "They have blacklisted him. There is no other term for it. And in doing so, have unintentionally underscored his message about pervasive injustice for blacks. This larger rock is beginning to overtake any original insult or disrespect he may have committed."
Do you agree? Does she have it right?
TALL: I think so. Remember, this is a quarterback who, four or five years ago, was in the Super Bowl and he was going the transform the league. Had a couple of down seasons and the last season became controversial. But with his talent and there are so many quarterbacks in the NFL, so many teams that need quarterbacks in the NFL, with his talent, he should have had a job by now. The only thing we can point to is this situation where he took a knee and the owners have kind of in essence colluded in the sense it wouldn't be good to bring him into our organization or on our team.
SESAY: Sally Jenkins raises this point. She says this isn't an issue of race. She doesn't think that the owners care about his cause. They just care he is being a disrupter and dissenter?
TALL: I don't think it's so much about race but they do care about the fact he can hurt their bottom line and money and finances. And worrying about that, they decided to take this approach where I think they are fearful they want to be hands off with him. They don't want to have anything to do with him because they bring him in, he could cause such a backlash with some of the fan bases or some of the fans, who like to salute the military flag and military honors at the open of a football game.
[01:45:11] SESAY: He says he mean not disrespect but he is just making this stand.
TALL: Right. And a lot of players and athletes have come to agree with that stance but the owners feel as if it would hurt their bottom line. And she's saying that it underscores -- they have made it bigger by not giving him a job, and it underscores his cause. I think it's a lot to do with this is a league that is 85 percent black, African-American. And the ownership that is 99.9 percent white. With that being the case and then the fan base being a majority white fan base. You have to remember that. With all of those dynamics, there's a lot of the things these owners don't want to touch, you know.
SESAY: Let's zoom in on Roger Goodell, the NFL commissioner. This is what he said at an event L.A., "NFL teams are going to do whatever it takes to make their football team better. Those are football decisions. They're made all the time. I believe if a football team feels that Colin Kaepernick or any other player is going to improve the team, they're going to do it."
Respond to that.
TALL: Well, I think he's right. I do think that if this was Tom Brady or Peyton Manning in his heyday, you kind of generally get the privilege to say what you want to say. Like we see this in the NBA. And Lebron James says he takes a stand against anything he considers an injustice and he's not worried about anything. The NFL is a different type of league because the owners run this league. And Kaepernick, his skills were on a down level. It is a meritocracy, that's true.
SESAY: Does he have any power here? Bearing in mind, as you say, it's privately owned, it's all about the owners having the power. Is there anything that Goodell could do in this situation?
TALL: Probably not. He works for the owners. That's what Goodell does. But he could get other players understand Kaepernick's cause. And if more superstar players take a stand -- if this was Cam Newton, I think he would get picked up by an NFL team. That's where I agree with Roger Goodell. If you have superstar quarterbacks and players come around and agree with Kaepernick and Roger Goodell, that would make a difference. Then that would affect the owners. SESAY: There is this growing outrage and protest, United We Stand outside NFL headquarters on Wednesday. There were about 1,000 people there. We have also seen police officers protest in support of Kaepernick. We saw that a couple of days ago in Brooklyn. They wore those T-shirts, "I'm with Kap."
Listen to what Spike Lee told Anderson Cooper a short time ago on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPIKE LEE, FILM PRODUCER: This is not the first time this has happened to African-American athletes that have stood up. Jack Johnson, heavyweight champion knocking out everybody else. Boom, out. Mexico, Olympics, John Carlos. Tommy Smith, black raised fist. Muhammad Ali refused to be inducted. All these are examples where men who stood up and believed in their beliefs and been crushed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Spike Lee says that when black men stand up, they get crushed. And the NAACP is weighing in now, asking to have a conversation with Goodell. This is 2017. The country is where it's at having this conversation about race and how everything fits together. Can the NAACP change this moment?
TALL: I they think they can. But it takes a coalition of the NAACP along with the NFL, and it has to be players who are -- who can make a difference, who are --
SESAY: It has to come from the inside.
TALL: It has to come from talented players on the field who the NFL teams are not going to risk losing. They don't care what type of stance they take, they want them on that field to make money and fill up those stands.
SESAY: If they are that powerful, are they going the risk it to get involved?
TALL: Muhammad Ali did.
SESAY: Now we're talking about the NFL.
TALL: Absolutely. NFL, I haven't seen any of them do it, but I think we'll see the tide turn. We have seen two white players take a knee. That was very important. And that opens up the door. I want to see Tom Brady come on board, Payton Manning come on board. I want to see this turn into, we're all working together and want to fight the injustices and everything that is going on.
[01:50:07] SESAY: Anthony Tall, thank you very much.
TALL: Thank you.
SESAY: Thank you.
TALL: Thank you very much.
VAUSE: Still to come here, new perspective from Princes William and Harry days before the 20th anniversary of their mother's death.
SESAY: As the 20th anniversary of the death of Diana, Princess of Wales, approaches, her sons are opening up about what it was like when she died.
VAUSE: In the BBC documentary, "Diana, Seven Days," the princes say their father and grandmother protected them and gave them privacy to mourn at Balmoral in the days after their mother died. Prince Harry was angry with the paparazzi which pursued his mother's car into that Paris tunnel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE HARRY: I think one of the hardest things to come to terms with is the fact that the people who chased her through the tunnel were the same people taking photographs of her while she was dying in the backseat of the car and those people that caused the accident instead of helping were taking photographs of her dying in the backseat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Joining us now, entertainment journalist, Sandro Monetti, also a journalist who covered Princess Diana.
You know, it's -- you are listening to Prince Harry there, you can see the emotion and said the photographers and reporters pursued his mother like a pack of dogs. It's difficult to imagine how much anger these young men have for the photographers and reporters who did what they did in that tunnel.
SANDRO MONETTI, ENTERTAINMENT JOURANALIST: It is rare to hear such emotion from the royal family. This is the legacy of princess Diana. She was the queen of hearts. And they have become the people's princes. Because they are able to show emotion. None of this keep calm and carry on. Rubbish. It's heart breaking to listen these two people have lost their mother. And for 20 years, they've stayed silent about this. And they have been very clear that this is the one and only time and the right time for them to talk about. It's great television and emotional.
SESAY: As you say, remarkably candid. Listen to some of what prince William had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE WILLIAM: When you have something so traumatic as the death of your mother when you're 15, and very sadly, many people have experienced, and no one wants to experience. It leaves you -- you know, it will either make or break you. I wouldn't let it break me. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: You hear him there, again, much they're revealing here. And it's clear, even though he says he wouldn't let it break him, these children, as they were then, have so much to overcome.
MONETTI: They have. And contrast this with 20 years ago, we didn't hear anything from the royals. It was almost the fall of the house of Windsor, the refusal to fly the flag at half-mast by the resolute queen, who didn't fly the flag at half-mast for the death of her own father. This is about stiff upper lip and carrying on. But the princes have spoken so emotionally. And I love the young royals. They are showing the old guard how it's done. And congratulations to the press at Kensington palace. There are new people there, who understand in this modern media age, you need to talk to the public directly. And I think people can reality to the royal family better with this interview than at any time in the last 20 years.
[01:55:26] VAUSE: You brought up Queen Elizabeth, and there are a few things that we are learning that challenge what we thought at the time. How their father was there for them and they go out of the way to say that. And how their grandmother, Queen Elizabeth protected them. You know, the royals were cold and sinister.
And there is part of a letter that the queen wrote at the time. This is part of it, "It was, indeed, dreadfully sad. And she is a huge loss to the country. But the public reaction to her death and the service in the abbey seemed to have united people around the world in a rather inspiring way. William and Harry have been so brave and I am so very proud of them."
This is a very different side to Queen Elizabeth than we have ever seen.
MONETTI: Now they are going public and revealing this. When you say nothing, people come to assumptions. This way you are getting control of the narrative. You say what happened. Queen banishing all the papers so they weren't disappointed. So she was showing so much heart, care and emotion toward them but we never saw it at the time, as the public, because it was so badly handled by the press operation around them. They were out of step with the public at the time. Look at it 20 years later, and everything this time has been done right. And Diana's greatest legacy is perhaps her sons and their ability of communication and emotion. And so many people watching this can take strength from the that. And that's one of the responsibilities of the royal family.
VAUSE: I lot of people say her death was a transformation of the royal family, saved the royal family.
MONETTI: I agree.
VAUSE: Sandro, good to see you.
SESAY: Thank you, Sandro. Always appreciate it.
You are watching CNN NEWSROOM, from Los Angeles. I'm Isha Sesay.
VAUSE: I'm John Vause.
Join us on Twitter, @cnnnewsroomla. You can find highlights and clips from the show and tweet us and Isha will reply.
Back with more news after this.
[02:00:05] SESAY: This is CNN NEWSROOM, live from Los Angeles.
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