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QUEST MEANS BUSINESS
Trump Hits Out at Allies Over Debt Ceiling "Mess"; Amazon Reveals Big Changes for Whole Foods; Yellen and Draghi Head to Jackson Hole; Cloudfare CEO Explains Far-Right Site Removal; Conor McGregor: "Money is Constantly in My Thoughts";
Aired August 24, 2017 - 15:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00] PAULA NEWMAN, CNN HOST: Up and down session today for stocks. I mean, another down day on the Dow, and many are not surprised. Second
day. A lot of things given those market's jitters. On Thursday, the 24th of August.
Tonight, with friends like these, Donald Trump slams his Congress colleagues for a debt ceiling mess. Amazon unveil a whole lot of changes
to Whole Foods. Wait until you hear this? And it's the central bank Super Bowl Masters. Eyes are locked on Jackson Hole Wyoming. I'm Paula Newton
and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
Good evening and welcome. Donald Trump warns the government debt ceiling is in fact, a mess and he's not exactly fostering a sense of team work to
try and get it sorted out. Now the President once again took to Twitter to slam two of the most powerful politicians in Congress. This time he had
Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell in his sites. He blame them for failing to raise the amount of money the government can borrow to pay its debts.
Mr. Trump tweeting, it could have been so easy. The White House Press Secretary tried to down play the escalating tensions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, I think the relationships are fine. Certainly, there are going to be some policy
differences, but there are also a lot of shared goals and that's what we're focused on. We're disappointed that Obamacare, they failed to get it
repealed and replace. But at the same time President Trump has worked with leader McConnell to reach out to other members and to work on those shared
goals. And were going to continue to do that when the Senate comes back from recess.
(END VIDEO CLIP).
NEWTON: We want to head now to the our White House reporter, Stephen Collinson. It's so interesting to hear her say the relationship is fine.
And yet the president's own tweets really ruled that out. Clearly the relationship isn't fine. What's at stake here? Because we are used to
hearing a lot of the debate around the debt ceiling politicize.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I think, Paula, if there's anything that's a mess is the relationship between Donald Trump and the
two-key people in his own Republican Party who are going to be crucial to passing his agenda if he gets anything past, Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell.
What we're seeing really now is a boiling Civil War almost in the Republican Party and that's going to get very, very dicey when Congress
comes back in September and has these big issues. You talked about the debt ceiling, that has to be raised.
That's the sort of big issue that's confronting lawmakers when they get back. If that doesn't happen the U.S. goes into default. That could have
all sorts of catastrophic implications for the global economy. Generally, what you would expect would be a Republican president to work with a
Republican Congress to get that done and get on to the other business. But Donald Trump is not a team player. We've seen that all throughout his
presidency. He's still have exercised that the Republican were unable to pass Obamacare. And he seems to be nursing a great deal of personal
grievances against his own party. Making it very uncertain how this is going to sort of shake down.
NEWTON: Yes, it's very interesting that his shots at his own party are much tougher, than even Barack Obama when he had to deal with the
Republicans on the Hill. Stephen Collinson, thanks so much, appreciate that.
The debt ceiling deadline is September 29 and a new study shows the treasury would struggle to pay a quarter of the countries monthly bills if
it fails to increase the debt limit. Fitch has already warned of a credit rating review if that does not happen in a timely fashion. And just to
remind everyone, this is not about the U.S. borrowing more money. It's about paying debts the country already goes. Mohamed El-Erian is the chief
economic advisor at Allianz. He joins is now from Irvine, California. Mohamed, look, we've been at this point before and every time we tend to
hear from people, this is not a big deal. It's just it's just politics in Washington and it doesn't matter. How do you see it?
MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISOR, ALLIANZ: We've been here many times. This would be the 75th time the debt ceiling would be raised, since
the early 60s. So, it happens quite a bit. I think you're going to see a lot of political posturing. You're going to see lots of tension within the
Republican Party. But when push comes to shove, they're going to lift it. The real casualty is going to be getting the other legislation passed, tax
reform and infrastructure.
NEWTON: And you've been on the record as saying that tax reform and infrastructure are incredibly important. Having said that, what could go
on? Because here's the problem, it's not perhaps the debt ceiling will be raised and everything will be fine. It's the mess, to use the term the
president used, that ensues before and after that happens.
[16:05:00] EL-ERIAN: Absolutely. You need a unified Republican Party to get moving on pro-growth measures. You need the Democrats to buy into
things that they ultimately have supported, infrastructure. And you need to get this done quickly, otherwise not only do you face lower growth
prospects, but you also face a higher risk of financial instability. So, be careful of the collateral damage of all these battles and political
posturing that are occurring on the debt ceiling. I don't think the debt ceiling is going to be the casualty. I think what's going to be the
casualty is timely progress on other needed economic reforms.
NEWTON: That certainly will obviously hurt the American economy going forward. I mean we already said that Fitch has already warned on this. In
terms of any damage to that economy, look, the president has said he wants 3 percent growth. How do you get there if you got a Republican Senate, a
Republican House and we still have no progress on, as you said, tax reform and infrastructure?
EL-ERIAN: Paula, the problem is politics not engineering. Most economists agree on the engineering part of the solution. You need better fiscal
policy. You need a number of structural reforms. And you need better global coordination. People know the components that are needed for the
solution. But it's about politics and it's about getting the Congress and administration to move on the economic responsibilities. And that is where
the issue is. It's not engineering. It's politics. Without the politics getting better, we're not going to get to 3 percent growth.
NEWTON: At what point do markets and investors really have to worry? Because that underlying anxiety is there. At what point do they really
need to come in and pay attention?
EL-ERIAN: They should be paying attention now. But it's a difference between a journey and destination. The journey is very enjoyable for
investors. Why? Because there's a lot of liquidity coming into the system from central banks, from corporate balance sheet. So, the journey is fine.
But the destination has to involve better economic fundamentals. At some point, markets are going to stop focusing on the journey and they're going
to start wondering about the uncertain destination.
QUEST: Mohamad, thanks so much. And bear with us because we're going to keep you here on the program as we move to Jackson Hole Summit in Wyoming.
And we will talk all things Fed. And Mohamed has some interesting things to say about lessons we haven't heard from the financial crisis. Thanks,
Mohamed, appreciate it.
Now, U.S. stocks have end the day just smidge lower after a very flat trading day. As you can see, the board there did take on almost 30 points
in losses. But really it was a bit of a flat day. But let me tell you, the news really got interesting later in the day. Amazon said it takeover
of Whole Food will officially complete Monday. And we are getting new details about what the deal will mean for customers of both companies.
Clare Sebastian is here. My goodness, this just hit like a shockwave today. Mainly because it is going to impact people's everyday lives.
Especially here in the United States. But pay attention everybody, beyond.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT: Right Paula, yesterday you and I were talking about how we didn't know yet what impact this deal is going to
make. I brought the Amazon box and the Whole Foods bag here just for the sake of illustration, two becoming one. But today, the first details.
What a difference 24 hour makes. This is really the first time that we're hearing exactly how it's going to impact consumers. And there are four key
The first one is lower prices. And that is going to take effect from Monday. Lower prices on some key grocery staples. Everything from
avocados to organic eggs. Things Whole Food customers buy the most. That's taken effect from Monday. I can't illustrate enough how fast this
is happening. Second thing is Amazon Prime integration. That's a key point. This is not immediate, but as the technology start to kind of
synthesize within these two companies, Amazon Prime members will get special discounts and special deals and it will be integrated in the point-
of-sale at Whole Foods.
And that is crucial, because that's a way Amazon can continue to collect data. Which of course, we know is currency in this business. There's also
Whole Foods brands that are going to be available on Amazon including 365 which is their private label, which is cheaper than some of the other
things they sell. And Amazon lockers in some Whole Foods stores. So, pickup and drop-off your returns while you do your food shopping. The
integration is staggering.
NEWTON: To make a fine point of it, it is Amazon moving into bricks and mortar. All of a sudden, they've acquired all of this real estate all over
the country and beyond.
SEBASTIAN: 460-plus stores -- Whole Foods stores and a lot of them in quite nice areas, given the clientele. So, it's certainly a big move into
bricks and mortar. And we saw today other grocery retailers falling hard on this news. Kroger's was down significantly. That's a major player in
retail -- in grocery here. And that's partly I think because of the promise to cut prices.
[16:10:00] As you know, convenience and price are the key in this business.
NEWTON: We have not seen -- this is just the beginning of this shakeout. So, everybody fasten your seatbelts. I not sure what we're going to call
Whole Foods anymore. Because we used to call it whole paycheck. Are we going to call it 90 percent paycheck now? I'm not aesthetically sure, but
it's that kind of image that Amazon wants to shed from Whole Foods. And at the same time Amazon wants to shed the image that look, it's just not
convenient enough. I can't touch it, I can't feel it, I don't see it.
SEBASTIAN: Right, it's a combination of the two. Now Whole Foods as you say, has had problems in the past -- problems with the overcharging with
the image that it sell the unnecessarily and unnecessarily expensive things. And it does really seem that the reading between the lines of the
press release we saw today that that is the overriding principle here, that they are trying to not only bring prices down, but also re-create this
image as something more mainstream. Something that Amazon customers could integrate with buying everything that they buy on Amazon. It makes it much
more convenient as well as cheaper for them.
NEWTON: And this is quite an earthquake. I know I may not hit other parts of the world until later on. We'll see how this shakes out. But
certainly, for anyone shopping in the United States, big news today. Clare Sebastian, thanks forgetting that together for us, appreciate it.
The world's top central bankers are descending in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Markets are watching these two, Mario Draghi and Janet Yellen, very
closely. We'll examine what they're looking for next.
NEWTON: Investor's eyes are on a you small resort town nearly 2,000 miles from Wall Street. Jackson Hole, Wyoming, host the annual gathering of the
world's top bankers. Organizers decided on that location in 1982. They were trying to attract Fed chair and fly-fishing enthusiast, Paul Volker.
Investors and economists are fishing for clues now about what the future of monetary policy has in store. Now here's the field guide. No, we're not
going to tell you how much this fish costs at Whole Foods.
But first, the theme, strategies to foster a dynamic global economy. This comes as the OECD reports that 45 economies it tracks are now growing,
growing. Largely thanks to central bank policies. It's the first time that has happened in ten. Second, comments about policy normalization.
The fed is on the policy tightening path but the ECB isn't so far. Investors will be looking for clues about Mario Draghi's strategy -- keep
in mind sometimes it's very hard to parse.
Finally, look out for bear markets. Market bears. Stocks are riding near all-time highs but the wrong word from a central banker could send them
plummeting. Joining me again is Mohamad El-Erian. He is the chief economic advisor to Allianz. So, I notice from us talking about that you
have said, to use a term, there is still too much cheap money out there. And you're saying in Jackson Hole, do you think the reckoning that you want
them to come to will finally happen? Because you're saying they did not learn the lessons that they were supposed to be learning, not necessarily
the fed bankers but perhaps governments as well. That they should've learned from the financial crisis.
[16:15:00] EL-ERIAN: Yes, they haven't learned the main issue. And that's for the politicians, which is you cannot rely on finance as your engine up
growth. Central banks would love nothing more than to hand off the massive responsibility they have been carrying to the politicians. But as we
discussed earlier, the political situation doesn't allow for that handoff. So, they're going to have to struggle with whether to continue doing what
they're doing or whether to step back and try and normalize policies.
NEWTON: You know, you argue though that this will be a difficult balancing act. Because just as the central banks know that they have to start
tightening -- you're saying the tough work didn't get done. You're saying that -- even if you go right back to all this populism that we see in many
parts of world, the economic model is wrong right now. What can they do? What action can they actually take to having impact on that right now?
EL-ERIAN: Here wasn't much that the central banks can do. They've done more than most people expected. Think of you going to a doctor with a
structural problem and all that the doctor can do is give you painkillers. And has been giving you painkillers. Now that allows you to walk, but it
doesn't allow you to run. You need structural reforms. And that's not something that central banks can do. That's only the political class
that's able to do that.
NEWTON: And yet, if you're Janet Yellen right now in your in Jackson Hole. And at the fact there is a debate about how much you should tighten and
when. And then, you know, not to use to find a point, the president is really breathing down her neck. If you are in their position right now,
what do you think is seizing them at Jackson Hole and they actually do want to get together and talk about this challenge. About how do you get the
world global economy, the addicts that they are to that the cheap and easy money, off of that money stream, that credit stream and still continue with
that sustained growth?
EL-ERIAN: Paula, I think there are two main challenges. The first one is that they're getting different readings from the instruments. Low
inflation is telling them to stay loose for longer. Hi elevated financial assets is telling them to tighten. So, which of the two do you listen to?
The second issue is we have enough evidence to suggest that a single central bank, in h this case, the Fed, can deliver a beautiful
normalization. What we don't know is what happens if the ECB, the Bank of Japan and the Fed all try it at the same time. The second issue is a
question of policy coordination.
NEWTON: And do you think we will see some of that? Because the condition in each and every country is so different, especially when you're dealing
with something like let's say, the labor market.
EL-ERIAN: I think the pressure is there because of what you said earlier, which is we having somewhat of a global economic recovery. So, the ECB
will find it harder and harder not to start tapering its large-scale purchases of securities. And the Fed is going to find it harder and harder
to resist a rate hike in December. So, the economy is pressing them to confront these very difficult trade-offs.
NEWTON: Yes, it will definitely be interesting. I know we'll all be watching it very closely. Especially when we expect to hear more from
Wyoming tomorrow. Mohamad, thanks so much. We appreciate you sticking with us.
EL-ERIAN: Thank you.
NEWTON: Now Apple has announced its investing more than $1 billion in Iowa building a data center right in America's heartland. Now the project
should create 50 jobs and will help power Apple's app store. The CEO, Tim Cook, said it was part of the company's commitment to the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
We're proud that every iPhone, every iPad, every Mac, every Apple watch, every Apple TV contains parts and materials that come from America. Are
made with equipment there comes from American suppliers. Suppliers like those right here in Iowa.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Paul La Monica joins me now. We had this conversation the other day about Foxconn and whether or not you're buying jobs as it were. When
we start to see these companies making these announcements. I mean, it is in a great number of jobs. And yet Apple says look, it is our commitment
PAUL R. LA MONICA, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, as you point out, 50 jobs may not sound like a lot, and it isn't. But they are jobs and this isn't
the first time that Apple has built some of these data centers in the U.S. They have others in California, Nevada and Oregon. So, this is interesting
that they are doing this. But, yes, there is a big difference between a data center that helps power the App Store and a manufacturing plant that
may produce the next iPhone.
NEWTON: Where is Apple? Because I've heard a lot about rumors in terms of how much of their actual manufacturing of things like the phone and
computers will move to the United States. Is it lip service at this point two a government that's a bit hostile?
LA MONICA: I think it is a little bit. It is very difficult to imagine why it would be economically feasible for Apple to start building its
products here in the United States, when it is cheaper to do so outside of America. And that's just simple economics, which you would think our
capitalist president would understand.
[16:20:16] NEWTON: Might understand, although, you know, many people who aren't Trump supporters even, would say, look he's got a point. He's going
to press these companies. First off, the margins on some of the stuff is massive. Second off, we do still have the elephant in the room, which is
all those profits that do not come back to the United States.
LA MONICA: Yes, ironically enough, Apple could be one of the best beneficiaries of any tax reform that President Trump and Republicans in
Congress, might be able to get through. Because Apple has over $260 billion in cash, most of it is sitting overseas. If the company brings
that back, it wouldn't shock me if President Trump tries to convince Apple as an incentive, hey, don't just buy back stock and increase your dividend,
which I good for people that are wealthy, that have money in Apple stock. Build more plants, add more jobs and hey no one would have problem with
NEWTON: And it's been a criticism of corporate America for a while. They've just got you much money in the bank. They need to spend it. Paul,
thanks so much. Appreciate it.
LA MONICA: Thank you.
NEWTON: Now Apple also has a data center in Oregon. The governor there is joining other state leaders in welcoming foreign firms as well as U.S.
ones. They fear the President's America first rhetoric is deterring overseas investment. Kate Brown is Oregon's Democratic governor. She says
Trump's policy on trade and climate change are putting the interest of her state at risk.
We have heard from the small by mighty state of Oregon loud and clear. You are known as the most anti-Trump Governor, perhaps even more than the
governor of California in the land. Having said that -- you know, a lot of the buy America and invest in America brand has done well for Donald Trump.
Even if his own companies don't follow it. You know, some people might mistake what you're saying as going against that trend.
KATE BROWN, GOVERNOR OF OREGON: Well, what I want is to make sure that our Oregon businesses succeed and thrive. And that means having a trade policy
that businesses can count on, that doesn't change from one tweet to another. So first of all, the president said that he wanted to throw out
NAFTA. Now he said he wants to renegotiate. Our businesses need certainty. Trade is absolutely critical to growing the economy in the
state of Oregon. Canada and Mexico are important trading partners for Oregon, for the United States. So, I want policy that reflects the values
of Oregonians, that means baking in our environmental protections and labor protections in any future trade agreements that are negotiated.
NEWTON: As a Democrat though, are you sure a Republican Senate, Congress and President isn't going to have an effect on your state. Because I know
you guys are following through kind of acting like semiautonomous countries almost. And you know, there are significant state powers that you do have.
But when and how do those powers run out? Because you know that they do at a certain point.
BROWN: Absolutely. Well, for example, while Washington, D.C. is falling apart at the seams, Oregonians are coming together. For example, we have
just continued funding for the Oregon Health Plan. We now have health care coverage for 95 percent of adults. And we were able to even take that one
step further and now, with the result of the courage of the Oregon legislature, we were able to pass a bill to cover every single child in the
state of Oregon. So, while federal government is looking at ripping out the rug from underneath Americans, we're moving forward in a way that will
enable our citizens to thrive.
NEWTON: How has that helped your economy? Because I know there have been many, especially foreign investors, but even ones in America who say, look
when you've got that social safety net coming from the state it actually makes the workers more productive and it actually lowers our costs.
BROWN: Absolutely. Let me give you an example. One of the doctors that I talked to in Klamath Falls, her patient was going to the emergency room to
get her medical care. Now that that patient is on the Oregon Health Plan, she's part of the expanded population, she can now work. In addition to
getting preventative health care that's much more cost-effective, she's also a productive member of society.
In addition, with the expansion of the Affordable Care Act, we've been able to create over 23,000 jobs throughout the state of Oregon. The these are
really good paying jobs. In rural Oregon, in urban Oregon, they're helping our economy thrive. Our GDP is growing very fast. I think it's one of the
fastest growing GDP's in the country. We have high job growth rate. We're seeing that these investments that we're making in our people are paying
NEWTON: Some Republicans complain you have very high taxes.
[16:25:01] I think in terms of looking at the other side of the ledger here, what kind of programs do you have going forward that might look a
little bit more what some Americans might want to see in terms of not having that burden. Whether it's coming from companies or personal income
BROWN: Well, right now, we're having a conversation with our business community about making sure that businesses in the state pay their fair
share. Oregonians, individuals, pay the vast bulk of taxes here to the state of Oregon. And so, we're having that conversation. As we move
forward, it is very clear to me that we do so in a way that allows our businesses to grow and thrive. And that we don't overly burden Oregon
So, my focus has been working with the business community, figuring out how we make the investments we need. Whether it's in our transportation
infrastructure, we were able to just get bipartisan support on a transportation package. Investing in our roads and bridges and facilities
that are needed in Eastern Oregon and Western Oregon. Making sure that we have the water infrastructure that rural communities need. And making sure
frankly that we have housing for workers that are need in every part of the state.
NEWTON: Now, governor, the president said again this week that he might just rip up NAFTA. If he does that, could you see states like yours that
will just continue free trading even if he's ripped up the agreement?
BROWN: Look, trades is critically important for Oregon. It's really important to Oregon businesses. We want to make sure we share our creative
innovative Oregon products with countries, Asia, Canada, Mexico. We want to make sure our chips are able to get to China. And that our cherries are
able to get to Japan. So, I'm certainly working. I'm going on a trade mission this fall to make sure we build those relationships, and have the
connections that we need to that Oregon companies can export products and grow good paying Oregon jobs.
NEWTON: OK. But I just have to hang on this point. What do you have I your arsenal? What can the states do, have you guys been talking about,
whether he unilaterally lips up NAFTA?
BROWN: I'm going to continue to work with our federal delegation. I've had a number of conversations with secretaries at the federal level. I
know that for example that the USDA secretary, Sonny Perdue, understands how important trade is to our agricultural sector. I just met this morning
with the Oregon Association of Nurseries, trade is obviously key to them as well. We're going to continue to make sure that we work with our
delegation, that we work with the federal government. We want to make sure that we can get -- we can get Oregon products to market in our surrounding
countries and make sure that we grow and thrive.
NEWTON: But governor, it still sounds to me you're still at the mercy of the president when it com, to NAFTA. Did doesn't sound like there's
anything you can do. Your kind of at the mercy of whatever he does.
BROWN: Well certainly, we're going to push. We found working at the federal level in terms of the data that we had regarding the expansion of
the Oregon Health Plan that that data was instrumental in helping the U.S. Senate not move forward in the repeal of the ACA. So, we're going to
continue to provide the information that we have on the ground. The we're going to continue to build relationships. Our economic development agency,
Business Oregon, will continue to work with countries like Japan, with China, with Canada, to make sure we can continue trading and then we will
work to make sure that any type of trade agreement has labor protections and of course environmental protections built right in.
NEWTON: Governor I have to leave it there. I suggest that going rogue still is not on that list of things you might be able to do, but we'll
continue to watch your State very closely. Appreciate it. Now, Britain risks becoming a departure lounge for skilled EU talent. That's according
to business leaders who are raising serious questions about the migration effects of Brexit.
[16:32:04] NEWTON: Hello I'm Paula Newton. Coming up in the next half hour a QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, the CEO of Cloudflare tells me what was going
through his mind when he decided to take down a far-right website. You might be surprised. And Conor McGregor tells CNN money is never far from
his mind. You'll hear from both McGregor and Floyd Mayweather in a moment. Before that though, these are the top headlines on CNN this hour.
The White House Press Secretary says Donald Trump's relationship with Republican leaders is quote, fine. But that word comes as the U.S.
President continues to criticize top Republicans. In tweets Thursday, he directed some of that criticism as majority leader Mitch McConnell.
Danish prosecutors say the inventor of the submarine will face the equivalent of a murder charge in the gruesome death of a Swedish
journalist, Kim Wall. She had gone aboard the sub to do a story on Pete Madsen. Her dismembered body was discovered 11 days later washed up on an
island near Copenhagen.
A woman in the state of Massachusetts has become the winner of the largest single lottery jackpot ever in the United States. That woman is Mavis
Wanczyk. And she is now nearly $759 million richer. I kid you not. That is until the taxes come out of course. But honestly, still very rich. She
says her big plans to retire early. But she's not celebrating the way you might think.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAVIS WANCZYK, POWERBALL LOTTERY WINNER: No. As a matter of fact, I just bought a car in September of last year. And I just plan on paying it off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you going to do tonight to celebrate?
WANCZYK: I'm going to go hide in my bed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Britain voted for Brexit and now there is a warning it's causing a "Brexodus." Business groups are warning of a growing skills gap, because
EU workers our leaving the U.K. The number of EU citizens leaving Britain is rising. The Office for National Statistics said the Brexit referendum
may be influencing decisions on migration. At the same time fewer EU nationals are migrating into the U.K. In fact, the net migration level is
at its lowest in three years. This as the French president Emmanuel Macron is campaigning for rule changes on so-called temporary posted workers.
He wants to clamp down on low paid workers moving into Western Europe. Lord Karan Bilimoria is a life Peer of the House of Lords and an
entrepreneur. He's the founder and chairman of Cobra Beer. Thanks so much for joining us. This has been a very contentious debate from the outset.
Even when people were campaigning on both sides of Brexit. In terms of the way it is going now, some people say, well, what did you expect? There
clearly are going to be these sake outs in the lab| market. What do you think?
[16:35:07] KARAN BILIMORIA, MEMBER OF U.K. HOUSE OF LORDS: One the biggest issues in the referendum was immigration. And this government starting
with the Prime Minister, Theresa May, was Home Secretary for six years. While she was Home Secretary was very anti-immigration. She is a person
who when she was Home Secretary wanted international students to leave the U.K. the day they graduated. She is a person who continually said that
international students overstayed. Well just today, we've had a report that has come out from the government that says that Les than 5,000
international students overstay in the U.K. every year and the government was throwing figures of 100,000 a year. So, it's been a very anti-
immigration rhetoric. And this fueled very much, the Brexit vote.
The reality is we have 3 million people from the European Union who live in the U.K. and yet we have 4.5, 4.4 percent unemployment. The lowest in
living memory. Without these 3 million people from the EU, skilled and not skilled, we would have an acute labor shortage. We need them. So, it's
very worrying now that we're seeing that the net migration figures going down to achieve this target if of the government to less than 100,000.
When actually we need the people from the EU skilled and unskilled as well as from people outside the EU.
NEWTON: But you know, some of the debate and the continuing debate, is the fact that all it' done is really depress wages, even in an industry like
yours. And that is a point. Many people in Britain feel as if that jobs were just going to the lowest bidders.
BILIMORIA: That is absolutely misleading. Because if you look at the people from abroad who work in the U.K., it is across the board. It is
agricultural labor, which is low paid, but again, everyone is paid above the minimum wage in most cases, a living wage. But also, it is at the
other extreme academics, 30 percent of academics at our top university, the including University of Birmingham, Oxford, Cambridge, are foreign. It is
in the City of London, highly paid, highly skilled people in the City of London. In the construction industry, 250,000 people from the European
Union. In the public sector, in the National Health Service, over 130,000. So, this is a complete misnomer that is just low paid, low skilled people
who work from the EU. It's across the board.
NEWTON: At the risk of this turning into a debate we might have had before Brexit, the point is Brexit is a reality now. So, going forward --
BILIMORIA: Not necessarily, by the way.
NEWTON: So, now we get to the -- OK, go for it. So, are you going to reverse Brexit?
BILIMORIA: Actually, Brexit may not happen. And the reason it may not happen is being uncovered every single day. When we talk about
immigration, that myth is being destroyed. When we talk about saving money contributing to the European Union, we're now talking about European Union
wanting up to 100 billion euros and having a transition where we continue to pay into the European Union. So, at every level were talking about
Brexit for what? No European Union laws -- already the government is conceding it might have to concede to the European Court of Justice. So,
when the people wake up to realize that if working to have the same thing we may as well stay.
NEWTON: OK, so now I know where we're going with this. We have to leave it there for now. Clearly this is a debate will continue to have. I argue
Brexit is still the reality but let's wait-and-see. As you said, will wait-and-see and continue to follow this very contentious debate.
Now, we couldn't remain neutral. We spoke to the tech CEO whose firm dropped the business of a white supremacist website. And how he says, it
was in fact a dangerous move.
[16:40:47] NEWTON: You may not have heard of internet firm Cloudflare. Even its CEO says that. Last week it got a lot of attention. It
terminated the account of the Daily Stormer, a neo-Nazi website. That was in the wake of the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville. Now other
web posting services had dumped the site already but Cloudflare's move meant it would no longer protect the site from cyber-attacks. I spoke to
the chief executive, Mathew Prince about why he did it. He told me there are dangers in regulating content on the internet.
MATHEW PRINCE, CEO, CLOUDFLARE: The content on this site, I personally found incredibly repugnant. It just didn't -- it was as you said, vile.
It was something that was extremely disturbing. And yet --and, again, that may be the right editorial decision for people who are more upstream and
certainly we should hold the content creators accountable for the things, the vile things they put on line. The question is who, along that chain,
should be making that decision and who shouldn't? Take Google as an example. Google, two days before we banned this site from using our
network, banned it from using their registrar services.
But there are a lot of other services that Google uses. They run DNS service which is sort of like phone book for the internet. They run a
browser that is the market dominant browser. They run an ISP and obviously they run search. Across none of those did Google pull their support,
technically they could have but again, it feels wrong to consumers. It feels wrong if your browser is making decisions about what content can and
cannot be on line.
If we chain together a whole bunch of different entities, all of which are making slightly different moral decisions the risk is we collapse the
internet to what is the lowest common denominator. That's a real risk and that is something we need to be aware of and we need to be aware of and
think through before people sort of jump to the immediate easy answer, which is of course you shouldn't have Nazis using your platform. That's
disgusting and vile but we have to think about what's the consequence if we let every link in the chain make that decision about what is allowed, what
is not allowed content.
NEWTON: Matthew, to those who say by saying you're the plumbing company, you're just shirking your responsibility.
PRINCE: Well, again, I think it's obviously we have a right to choose who does and does not use our network. And if we have that conversation, and
we say, yes, actually Cloudflare should be making editorial decisions, then that will be a policy that comes out. And that's what is publicly there.
I ask again, if you've never heard of -- never heard of Cloudflare before, and you hear we are choosing what content you can and cannot see on line,
does that make you feel good for bad?
I think that most of the people that have talked to us about that when you take away what this particular content was and you say should that company
behind the scenes that you don't know you're interacting with, should that be the place where editorial decisions get made? You'll get really
uncomfortable. I understand that. Then I think it is similar to, if I, said the laptop you're using is not going to let you go to some sites but
it will let you go to others. And that's made by the decision of the manufacturer of that laptop.
NEWTON: One further thing, I'm just interested in your opinion of this, I've tracked radicalization now for the better part of the decade and I
have seen it move from the internet to what they call the deep web because they've gotten clever. They encrypt everything and they know everyone is
spying on them. There's that old adage that sun light is the best disinfectant. By taking this stuff off the web, that you and I can peer
into, is there a danger then too?
PRINCE: I think there absolutely is a danger and again I think that is one of the
pieces of the first amendment that's really quite wise. It's very easy to make the decision to take things off line and that feels good. But
censorship rarely changes people's thoughts.
[16:45:00] It just causes them to go underground and be more hidden. I think the best way to fight ugly vile speech is with good speech. As
Nelson Mandela said, people aren't born hating. They learn to hate. And if people learn to hate, you can teach them not to hate. That I think is a
better solution. I think the tech industry can play a role in that too by promoting that content which shows why these sorts of opinions are not the
NEWTON: Now the boxing match of the year. Or a farce? Floyd Mayweather and Conor McGregor speak with CNN. That's next.
NEWTON: The press tour is over we are two days away from what are some calling the fight of the year maybe even the decade. It's 12-round bout.
With UFC champion Conor McGregor and boxer Floyd Mayweather, yes, I said that UFC boxing, you get it?
Mayweather is coming out of retirement. The fight is as much about money as you can imagine, as athletics. Mayweather say he's likely to make $300
million and whoever wins will get to walk away with this. More than 3,000 diamonds, 600 sapphires and 300 emeralds on an alligator leather strap in a
pear tree. CNN caught up with both Mayweather and McGregor. They told Don Riddell there is more to this match than money.
DON RIDDELL, ANCHOR: You're going to make a lot of money out of this. But if you could only have the money or the win, what would you take and why?
CONOR MCGREGOR, UFC CHAMPION BOXER: The win all day. Money is great. And don't get me wrong. Money is very close in my thoughts constantly. It's
not the be all end all. It's easy for me to say this in the position I'm in where in this position and my money just appears. It's always up there
in that forever money zone. So, it's easy for me to say money's not this and that because lot of people struggle and there is a lot of stress in
people's lives is due to financial worries.
So, I'm just grateful to be in the position I am in. I' worked very hard for it to live this life and to give this life to my family. But it's not
the be all end all. I am a competitor and I'm looking to win here. The victory will be sweeter than any amount of money.
FLOYD MAYWEATHER, UNDEFEATED PROFESSIONAL BOXER: We just two huge names in combat sports. He's made a mark, for the last few years, a strong mark.
And I've made a mark for 21 years. So, now it's time to go out there and do what we do best and that's fight.
RIDDELL: Floyd a lot of insults were traded in the build up to this, which some people found offensive. How do you think that will affect the mood
when you both get in the ring?
MAYWEATHER: I can't really say.
[16:50:00] I go out there and do what I do. I've been here before with many different fighters, with many different styles. There's been plenty
of guys talked lot of trash. When it's all said and done I came up victorious. At the end of the day it's the biggest fight in history. It's
not just a fight. It's an event. If you want to be at an event of this magnitude you have to pay a high price.
NEWTON: Saluting to what he said there, their payday depends as much on their abilities outside the ring as well as in. They need to entice
viewers to tune in to Saturday's fight, now, the press tour shows both men are masters of hype as Don
RIDDELL: It is as much about the hype as it is about the fight. Saturday night's clash in Las Vegas between Floyd Mayweather and Conor McGregor, the
pugilists have been stirring it up. Therefore, they are right on message.
MAYWEATHER: God only made one thing perfect, and that is my boxing record.
MCGREGOR: He will be unconscious inside four rounds. I don't fear him.
RIDDELL: In most sports, the big events sell themselves but in the fight game everyone is a pitchman when the athletes aren't training they're
promoting. They want you to watch. And they want you to pay for it. Promoters want the biggest possible audience so the event needs to
transcend its sport. The bolder the claim, the bigger the coverage.
LEONARD ELLERBE, CEO, MAYWEATHER PROMOTIONS: August the 26th, Mayweather versus McGregor, the biggest event ever.
RIDDELL: Boxers promoters and even journalists always found it easy to hype fights but Muhammad Ali took it to another level entirely. For a
generation of fight fans his provocative bombastic behavior made it hard to look away and in the process, he became a pop culture icon.
MUHAMMAD ALI, CHAMPION BOXER: Sonny, might be great but he'll leave in eight. If he keeps talking jive he will go in five, and if runs he will go
in one. And if don't want to fight, he should keep himself home that night.
BILL CAPLAN, HALL OF FAME BOXING PUBLICIST: He was the best ever. Tried to copy him, but it's never really come off. He would do anything for
publicity. He was the easiest guy in the world to work for. If you were to say Ali, there here to see you, go up to the roof of the hotel and hang
by your toes, I think he would do it.
RIDDELL: The only thing worse than bad publicity, no publicity, in promoting this particular fight around the world, taste and decency were
left by the way.
MAYWEATHER: I don't give a f** if it's a ring, I don't give a f** it is an octagon. I can do anything I want up here.
RIDDELL: There doesn't seem to be any consequence for the organizers when a fight doesn't live up to the hype. For years fans were teased with the
prospect of Mayweather fighting Manny Pacquiao leading to hundreds of millions in pay-per view sales. When it finally happened, it was
miserable. Most fight fans would agree, 12 utterly forgettable rounds from two men who are past their prime.
JON WERTHEIM, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": You really want the ticket buyer to think these guys hate each other and don't want them to
think these two guys have a wink-wink agreement and both are going to walk away multimillionaires, and we're all suckers.
CAPLAN: I think the worse thing about hype is when you are putting some lovely beautiful frosting and beautiful decoration on a rotten cake.
RIDDELL: But that is just the way it is from sports to advertising to politics. Hype is everywhere. Whether we want to buy into it or not,
well, that is really up to us. Tom Riddell, CNN, Las Vegas.
NEWTON: And to continue on Don's excellent reporting, the fight let's remember pits one of boxing's all-time greats against a novice who hasn't
won a professional boxing bout. Joining me now is Phoenix Carnevale. Who is a mixed martial artist and fight commentator, you always are so able to
boil this down for me in terms of telling me what it's about. First, let's go to the fans. What are they saying?
PHOENIX CARNEVALE, MIXED MARTIAL ARTS COMMENTATOR: It depends on which fan you ask. If you ask fans from the boxing world they think this is
ridiculous. If you asked fans in mixed martial arts they find interesting or they are pro-Conor all the way.
It's so subjective in mixed martial arts nowadays because a lot of what goes on is a popularity contest. Conor McGregor is extremely talented, he
is one of the most self-actualized athletes I've ever seen. But Floyd Mayweather is Floyd Mayweather, 49-0. It should be interesting.
NEWTON: And hopefully it is not disappointing. Don laid it out there, it could really be a stinker of a fight. What is everyone expecting as we
said, we got guy that doesn't have a boxing title.
CARNEVALE: There are a of things in play. Conor McGregor is very awkward of a fighter. And when you fight someone who is really awkward, they wind
of hitting you more sometimes because you can't time them and see them.
[16:55:00] But Floyd Mayweather is so experienced that he figures people out very quickly. So, when we look at that you are going to go with Floyd,
emotions are going to make you go with Floyd. Logic will make you go with Floyd. But Conor McGregor there's something special about him. He is a
And we know that crazy people can sometimes change the world. So, I think that is part of the allure. It's kind of nuts but let's see what happens.
And understand that boxing is a big part of mixed martial arts. It's different. The stances are different. The Performance is different, you
are worried about other mechanics in your body but there are elements to it. So, he's not shy to fighting.
NEWTON: And let's get to the business of this. Will this help both sports? Or could one end up getting a knockout punch here?
CARNEVALE: Well, that's also subjective. If you are a mixed martial arts fan it's a great thing. Because people might say, this Conor McGregor guy
is really interesting.
NEWTON: What about all those people that are going from boxing to -- I'm surprised that boxing is taking this on. They always seemed to be such
CARNEVALE: I would say that, yes, but I would also say there were things like this before when Mohammad Ali took on a wrestler. There's been weird
circus acts like this before. There was way too much money to be made for them to say no to this. You know what I mean?
NEWTON: And that is what it comes down to right. We talked about what the fighters would make but everyone around is making tons of cash too.
CARNEVALE: Oh, yes, the Athletic Commission is going to probably make a million dollars on its own. Think about the bars, hotels. You have your
friends over for drinks. Everybody's going to make money here. But the interesting thing is who you talk to is going to have a different opinion
on what this means for boxing. Oscar De La Hoya is unhappy with it. Because it is overshadowing his event on September 18 or 16. And the
Triple G Canelo which is a really big and legitimate fight. So, people are upset about that.
But people might say, you know what? I was so unhappy with McGregor Mayweather, maybe I really want to watch a real boxing fight and tune in.
So, it is really, really subjective.
NEWTON: I've to leave it there. That is your boxing primer. We have done a great job here today. That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Paula Newton,
thanks for joining us. I will see you right back here again tomorrow.
You are spectacular. You are like so good.