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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
New Outrage; Harvey`s Destruction; Armed and Dangerous; Caught on Camera. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 29, 2017 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST (voice-over): She was living the dream until vanishing at sea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said, I`m going to go (INAUDIBLE) right now.
BANFIELD: When Isabella Hellman went overboard, her husband somehow escaped.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The trip was not about a honeymoon that everybody`s saying.
BANFIELD: Did paradise on the high seas turn into piracy and murder? Just why did her husband want her declared dead? Mystery in the Bahamas with a
sinking yacht, a cache of gold coins, and a husband now under arrest.
What started as a party at Grandma`s...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They must be devastated.
BANFIELD: ... ended in a nightmare for a sweet little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was incredibly brave.
BANFIELD: Kidnapped, choked and thrown from a bridge, the 7-year-old survives.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s pretty miraculous.
BANFIELD: Soaking wet and still in her jammies, police say she knows who did it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was incredible.
BANFIELD: Sweet 16 and missing for weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re getting very little cooperation out of the land owners.
BANFIELD: How did Savannah Leckie end up dead in a firepit?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody has gone to great lengths to dispose of this body.
BANFIELD: With just bones and teeth to go on...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We was picking up red flags from the very beginning.
BANFIELD: ... police arrest her mom. So why is Mom worried about money?
They face danger every day, even at a car crash. Cops see a woman who looks like she`s hurt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me see your hands.
BANFIELD: But that woman had a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t do it! Don`t do it!
BANFIELD: And before they could blink, she took aim at them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t do it!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
A honeymoon on the high seas is not supposed to be deadly and it`s not supposed to involve pirates, capsizing or drowning. And it is certainly
not supposed to involve murder. It seems to be all anyone can talk about.
Strange new developments are bubbling up to the surface in a case that was launched in the crystal blue waters off the Bahamas. Isabella Hellman was
somehow washed overboard when the 37-foot luxury catamaran she and her husband were sailing somehow capsized just days after she posted about
being on her dream voyage, another day in paradise. That photo of hers from Puerto Rico.
Three months later, we still don`t know where she is. But we do know that her family says that new husband was pretty quick to ask that she be
declared dead. They say he made that request right as the search for her was ending and that capsized catamaran disappeared.
We also know that new husband has just been arrested, not for her disappearance, for something out of a pirate movie, stolen gold and silver
coins. When Lewis Bennett was rescued, there was plenty of stuff in that liferaft with him, a backpack that was unusually heavy, plus another
suitcase, then another backpack that he was forced to leave behind.
There were also 14 gallons of water, buoys, parachute flares, an EPIRB emergency beacon, nine plastic tubes containing silver coins. And those
coins were very, very valuable, 158 English "year of the horse" silver coins and 77 Canadian maple leaf coins. All told, worth $4,200.
But when they checked out Lewis`s home, they found another cache of gold and silver tucked away in a nice little set of boat shoes, 162 coins.
They`re worth over $26,000. The FBI says those coins were stolen.
But other than that, the FBI is pretty much saying boo about the entire case.
Michelle Quesada is a senior reporter for CNN affiliate WPTV. She was at today`s court hearing and she joins me from West Palm Beach. All right,
Michelle, a court hearing -- let`s be clear. This is not about murder. This is not about anything to do with his missing wife, who is somewhere
possibly still at sea. This has to do with stolen coins. What was said in court?
MICHELLE QUESADA, WPTV CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, good evening. Today in court, the federal judge read Lewis Bennett his charges. He is charged
officially with transporting in interstate commerce a value of $5,000 or more, specifically gold and silver coins that he allegedly knew were
stolen. And today, he also had a hearing set for his bond for this Friday in Key West in federal court.
BANFIELD: OK, before we even get to that, bond for a guy who`s not facing murder, not facing manslaughter, not facing anything to do with her. It`s
stolen stuff. So I don`t know if he`s going to be held without bond. But what about their baby? They have a little girl. Where is she?
[20:05:16]QUESADA: Well, right now, the family, Isabella Hellman`s family, does not know where Amelia (ph), the 1-year-old daughter is. The last we
heard, before Lewis Bennett deleted his Facebook page, he had posted that he had taken Amelia (ph) to England, where his family is, and he was
surrounded by family and friends. Isabella Hellman`s sister believes that the baby may be with Lewis Bennett`s parents, but they haven`t heard
anything about her since he left the country two weeks after Isabella`s disappearance.
BANFIELD: Well, he`s back now, but we still don`t know if the baby`s in America or somewhere overseas with his side of the family, is that right?
QUESADA: Right. We don`t know where the baby is.
BANFIELD: OK. So this whole idea that his family -- or her family believes that he tried to have her declared dead real quick, like, right as
they were wrapping up the search for her -- how do we know that, since the FBI`s not talking?
QUESADA: There is a Coast Guard letter that says the day after the Coast Guard suspended its search for Isabella Hellman, Lewis Bennett tried to get
the Coast Guard to declare or presume Isabella dead. The Coast Guard, of course, responded with a letter saying they don`t have the authority to do
that and that Bennett would have to go through the court system in order to declare her dead.
BANFIELD: And as we know right now, Michelle, we don`t have any kind of filings from him saying, Please let`s get this show on the road and let`s
just call a spade a spade. I mean, effectively, is that right, there`s nothing that he`s done apart from that request to the Coast Guard?
QUESADA: Nothing in the court system right now, no. As far as we know, Isabella Hellman is still a missing persons case.
BANFIELD: What about a life insurance policy? Because I always smell a rat. I`ve been in this business way too long. When somebody wants to
quickly declare their newlywed dead, there may be some financial gain. Do we know about a life insurance policy on her?
QUESADA: We don`t have any information about a life insurance policy. Our contact by the investigative reporter, Sam Smith (ph), did receive a tip
when he was arrested that he may have been at his attorney`s office meeting with an insurance company connected to any filing related to Isabella
Hellman.
BANFIELD: How far did that get?
QUESADA: We`re not sure about that. Well, he`s in federal custody now, so we...
BANFIELD: I mean, it`s a pretty fascinating little nugget, you got to admit. So look, back to Isabella. Did he do anything? Did he launch any
search operation? Did he go to the end of the earth to find his bride, his newlywed bride, or did he just am-scray overseas until they got him back in
custody?
QUESADA: So Isabella Hellman`s family tells me that initially, after the search was suspended, that they wanted to go out and search for her
themselves. Lewis Bennett did launch his search in Cuba for her about a week-and-a-half after her disappearance. Isabella Hellman`s family tells
me it lasted a few days and he came back from Cuba with no findings. And that`s when he had allegedly taken the baby and left the country then.
BANFIELD: Instead, things got kind of cantankerous with Isabella`s family and Lewis Bennett, who ultimately ended up calling the police. And his
complaint to the police was that he thought Isabella`s family had come to one of his homes and looted him.
And I want to play for our audience, if I can, the phone call. Again, his wife is missing, and this is why he`s calling 911. You know what? We
don`t have that right away. I`m going to still see if I can dig it up. It was kind of fascinating. He said he thinks that his sister -- that her
sister and his mother-in-law might have come and taken some of these items.
I think we have it now. Let`s play it.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: What`s the problem there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I reported this incident a few weeks back to the sheriff in Del Way. But somebody`s entered my property -- not this address
I`ve given you. It`s my -- my actual property, which is a different address. Someone`s entered my property and taken some of my items. I
believe it`s my sister and mother-in-law.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So as we understand, Michelle, the family of Isabella has launched a lawsuit trying to gain financial control. What about custody?
Is anyone trying to fight over this little girl?
QUESADA: As of right now, we don`t know of any custody filings from Isabella Hellman`s family. They did withdraw their petition for
conservatorship to try to get access to Isabella Hellman`s belongings. This was after Lewis Bennett filed a motion to dismiss their petition.
BANFIELD: OK, I want to bring in Bobby Chacon. He`s a retired FBI special agent. He joins me from Los Angeles. Bobby, I see stolen coins and I hear
the back story behind them. Let me bring our viewers into this little part of the puzzle because it is really intricate.
Apparently, the coins had been stolen from another yacht. And it was a yacht where Lewis Bennett worked as crew. The owner of the yacht said
someone busted up the floor, went under a food pallet, stole a cache of coins. Strangely enough, the person who made the report to the police was
Lewis Bennett, the crew member.
[20:10:04]And ultimately, here he is found a year later, a year-plus later to have some, not all, of those coins. As an FBI special agent, wouldn`t
that get your spidey senses tingling that there`s a lot more to this story than just a missing woman?
BOBBY CHACON, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Oh, sure. And not just the coins, but there`s so much more to this story. And I think the things that
we don`t know speak very loudly in this case, that we don`t know the condition of that catamaran before it sunk. Unfortunately, we don`t know
what happened to his wife. We don`t know so much. But what we don`t know tells us a lot in this case.
BANFIELD: And what we don`t know also gives us a lot more interesting questions. And that is that I know for a fact, speaking to captains who do
charter yachting in the Caribbean, they are asked all the time to carry contraband loot real quiet-like on their charters because there`s just a
ton of drug running and money running all through the Caribbean. And now we have coin running, is the allegation. I mean, effectively, it`s kind of
a weird charge, transporting stolen coins, I`ll paraphrase.
But does that lead you to a bigger investigation than just gold and silver?
CHACON: Oh, sure. Of course, with the background in this case. And remember on June 16th in this case, the FBI spokesman down there said that
the FBI initiated a court-authorized search related to the disappearance of Isabella Hellman at Bennett`s address that was previously searched.
What that means to me is somewhere, there`s an affidavit on file for that search warrant. And it`s not in connection with the missing coins or the
stolen coins, it`s in connection to the missing persons case, which means that there`s an affidavit that spells out reason to believe that a crime
has been committed and that evidence of that crime is located in Bennett`s residence, the residence that they had court authorization to search.
So it would be very interesting to see what`s in that affidavit supporting that search warrant that happened on June 16th...
BANFIELD: Bobby...
CHACON: ... because, again, the spokesman didn`t say that search was in relation to the coins, it was in relation to the missing persons case.
BANFIELD: One thing I would love for them to search is the yacht...
CHACON: Of course.
BANFIELD: ... because the story that he gave, Lewis Bennett, was that he`s asleep down below, my wife`s at the helm. That`s not unusual. I also helm
big boats like this and I`m a girl. But the wife is at the helm. He`s asleep below. He hears a bang. He goes above, and the boat`s taking on
water and he can`t find his wife.
There`s the boat. Take a look at the picture. There is the boat partially sunk. Somehow, Bobby, that boat is now gone. And I do not for the life of
me understand how that can happen. How can a piece of evidence like that be allowed to just vanish, or sink to the bottom of the deep blue sea?
CHACON: Right. Right. It`s very unfortunate in this case. And actually, I was -- for 19 years, I was responsible for the FBI`s underwater search
and recovery program. And I had a very similar case to this in French Polynesia several years back where a retired NBA player was the victim of a
crime. And his catamaran was ultimately located. It had been sold by the perpetrator and we found bullet holes in the catamaran.
We would have loved to have the opportunity to examine this catamaran. It`s unfortunate. The Coast Guard got close enough to it. They must not
have had the capabilities of latching onto it and preventing it from sinking. But what they did say is as they made their way around with that
small boat that you see that they saw no evidence that anything had struck that hull, no damage to the hull, as far as they could see. They saw no
damage that would indicate water could be taken on. They saw no holes in the hull, no damage to the boat as far as they could see.
BANFIELD: And Bobby, they also said they launched a trackable buoy, but that somehow, either the buoy had been knocked off course or sent off
course, but it was not a spot that any longer viable for them to search. And God knows how deep it was in that spot. But I`m with you. I looked at
those pictures, and I`m thinking, You`ve got to have a pretty big breach in the hull to have a boat sink so fast that you can`t find your wife but you
can go and get all of that stuff that was found in the life raft.
CHACON: Exactly.
BANFIELD: I want to bring real quickly defense attorney Anne Bremner. She`s with me live on the set. Here`s what I don`t get. They`ve got him
on transporting stolen coins.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
BANFIELD: But not stealing them.
BREMNER: Right.
BANFIELD: And not suspicion of murder or manslaughter or any kind of homicide, nothing like that. Do you read anything into this?
BREMNER: Well, it`s just kind of a hook, I guess, to go to the next point, which is they`re going to keep investigating to see if they can come up
with any evidence. But you know, in looking at these pictures, you have to think to yourself, you know, Where is she? Where`s the evidence going to
be? You know, where`s -- there`s a lack of evidence, really, in terms of the homicide. And probable cause for the missing persons case is not
probable cause in the search warrant, for example, for a homicide. Maybe they`re -- step by step, they`re going to get there, hoping he says
something or whatever else. But the fact of the matter is now...
BANFIELD: You can tell by that accent he ain`t American.
BREMNER: Exactly. Right. Right.
BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE) citizen. I think he holds dual citizenship, Britain and Australia.
BREMNER: Yes.
BANFIELD: So what happens if they say, You can`t leave? Does he have to surrender both, all passports and that`s it? He`s America`s guest for the
-- for the duration?
[20:15:02]BREMNER: He`s -- yes, he`s an unwilling guest for the duration. And he`s going to have to give both of them up. But the fact is, if he`s
ever bonding out, or being let out, then he`s going to have to probably...
BANFIELD: Stick around.
BREMNER: Well, stick around (INAUDIBLE) passport anyway.
BANFIELD: How about that baby? That baby...
BREMNER: Oh, that`s just, like, amazing!
BANFIELD: Isn`t it incredible.
BREMNER: Yes.
BANFIELD: That baby -- apparently, Isabella`s family has not seen that baby.
BREMNER: Right.
BANFIELD: What is the law as it pertains to a dependent like this when Dad is being held and Mom is who knows where? Which family gets the right to
the custody?
BREMNER: Well, they`re going to have to go through and have an emergency hearing, and then determine if this child is going to be in the care of the
state. And then the state`s going to have to look for temporary folks to step in, who are most appropriate. But that`s hard when they`re all
feuding, of course. We had this (INAUDIBLE) case back in Washington, remember, with the dad...
BANFIELD: But if one`s overseas and one`s in America, did the American family -- did they get prevailing rights?
BREMNER: Probably.
BANFIELD: Probably?
BREMNER: Yes.
BANFIELD: I can only see that that would be easier (INAUDIBLE)
BREMNER: Exactly. Right.
BANFIELD: All right, I want to thank everybody...
BREMNER: That`s not always the right answer in the law, as you know, but...
BANFIELD: It`s not (INAUDIBLE) right, but sometimes it`s the one that`s right for right now. We`re going to follow it. We have continuously
followed this story because I just find it so perplexing, and the plot thickens. The possibility of the narrative now turning to some kind of
piracy makes it all the more shiny and new. Anne Bremner, thank you for that.
BREMNER: Thank you.
BANFIELD: Michelle Quesada, thank you, as well, and Bobby Chacon, appreciate it.
Straight ahead, the shocking story of survival, a 7-year-old -- 7 -- kidnapped, choked, thrown from a bridge in the middle of the night, and she
somehow manages to survive, swim to shore, get to help, and point out who she says is her abductor. You will not believe this little kid`s story,
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:21:12]BANFIELD: That time of year, family and friends get together, sometimes at Grandma`s house for a family cookout. But in Worcester,
Massachusetts, police say what was supposed to be a good time turned into sheer horror because a 7-year-old girl disappeared after falling asleep on
her grandma`s couch in the living room. When she turned up, she was drenched, she was miles from home, at a woman`s front door.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a very heroic thing that you did and it took a lot of (INAUDIBLE)
MAEVE GEARY, GIRL KNOCKED ON HER DOOR: Not at all. Not at all. No, it`s not. She was incredibly brave. I have such great admiration for her,
like, honestly. I`ve never seen a child behave so responsibly and so well. She was incredible (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And if you`re wondering why shy said all those things, it`s because investigators say that child had been kidnapped, they say by a
family friend. They also say that friend drove around for more than an hour, doing who knows what, before choking that 7-year-old and throwing her
off of a bridge.
Police say Joshua Hubert is the man she identified. It may not look it in these pictures, but they did say that bridge was more than 100 feet to hit
the water. Somehow, the little girl miraculously was able to swim to shore. She was bloody and she was bruised, but she made it to the first
house where she saw a light on.
Prosecutors say the marks on her neck are consistent with strangulation. They have charged this man behind the door. You can just peek and see him,
just barely see him right there. His name, Joshua Hubert. Joshua Hubert. How did they know? Because that`s who she said took her.
Kim Ring is a reporter for the Telegram.com and the "Telegram-Gazette" newspaper. She joins me from Worcester, Massachusetts.
Kim, this peek that we`re seeing of the man in the courtroom, it is unfathomable for, I think, anyone in our audience to believe that this is
true, that this child reported, allegedly, this man took her off that couch and strangled her and threw her off the bridge. But this is true. She
survived an attack and was able to actually point to this suspect?
KIM RING, TELEGRAM.COM (via telephone): Certainly, an incredible story and unusual for Worcester. But right now, what we know is that the little girl
has identified Joshua Hubert as the man who took her and dropped her off a bridge into Lake Quinsigamond.
BANFIELD: My first question when I heard these facts, other than how the hell did this survive this, how did she swim a football field, the maximum
from the middle of the bridge, if that`s where he dropped her, to safety in the middle of the night and then somehow have the wherewithal, bleeding,
bruised and injured, to make it to that house -- my first question was, What happened in that hour-and-a-half that he had her? Do we know if she
was sexually assaulted, this little 7-year-old?
RING: Right now, we don`t know a whole lot about what happened during the time she was missing. I think the police have put out a call to some of
the stores in the area. They`re looking for any video that might show the vehicle in a parking lot, that might lead them to maybe future charges.
We have heard that the single kidnapping charge probably won`t be the only charge Mr. Hubert faces. So we`re going to find out a lot more publicly on
Thursday when a 58A (ph) hearing to determine if there`s any conditions that a judge could set that would allow him to be released and ensure
public safety. So some testimony in that might lead to some more information about the case.
BANFIELD: Sometimes, Kim, we get very technical when we give these details about what happened so that we can move through the story quickly. And I
don`t think we should blow over the fact that she was bleeding and she was badly bruised and she fell 100 feet. That`s what the police are saying
that bridge was, 100-foot fall, that she had contusions on her legs and her wrists, and then the marks on her neck.
[20:25:05]Do we have any idea how this little girl is right now and how bad her injuries are?
RING: We know that she was treated at the hospital, and we believe she`s been released from the hospital now, that her injuries were not life-
threatening. And somehow, if that is indeed the bridge that she was thrown from -- and again, the police have not confirmed that -- that is probably
the highest span on the lake. And it`s not a fall I`d want to make.
BANFIELD: And as I look at it with the semi on top, it does now look more like 100 feet. It`s hard to see that at first. But when you get that
relativity, the size of the semi and then that drop, you can see it is a long way down.
And you know what? That would injure a grown-up who jumps with shoes on. That would injure a grown-up who does that. A little 7-year-old falling in
the dark, being thrown so she can`t even set her own equilibrium, who knows how she landed. I mean, it`s just -- it`s nothing but remarkable that
she`s alive.
But about the guy that she pointed to, we`re are being told this is a family friend of the grandparents, which makes it maybe easier for her to
say it`s so-and-so. In this case, they`re saying that this is Joshua Hubert. Does the grandmother factor into this at this point? Has she said
anything to police? Has she said what the connection is to this man?
RING: We`re not sure who the police have talked to at this point. Again, not a lot has been released as far a information because the investigation
is still ongoing. We`re hoping Thursday, we`ll learn some more. I know that Joshua Hubert did know this young girl`s parents and was considered a
family friend and was (INAUDIBLE)
BANFIELD: We don`t know if he was at the birthday party -- or not the birthday party, but summer party. Do we know if he was present at that
party?
RING: He was -- we`ve been told that he was at the party, that he did attend this barbecue.
BANFIELD: Do we also have confirmation -- and this just makes my skin crawl -- that Joshua Hubert, who is alleged to have done this horrific,
monstrous thing to a 7-year-old, had a job at a private school and apparently was working there for the last seven weeks while kids were there
for summer studies, that he was working as a systems support analyst and that he may have coached his daughter`s hockey team. Do we know this?
RING: We do know that he was a youth sports coach, that he did coach youth ice hockey and youth street hockey. We do know that he started working at
the Fay School in Southboro maybe seven or eight weeks ago. But we`ve been assured by the administration at the school he did not have any
unsupervised contact with any students there. So at this point...
BANFIELD: Well -- so whoop-de-do. Whoop-de-do! He didn`t have any supervised contact. Doesn`t mean he wasn`t eyeballing, you know,
allegedly, potential victims because if he did this to this young girl, as is alleged, God knows what he may have done in the past, or what he may be
planning in the future, again, allegedly.
But there`s more to it. Apparently, he has a past as a 911 call dispatcher, medical emergency dispatcher? Is that true, as well?
RING: Right. He did work in Sterling as a dispatcher. And he was credited, actually, with thwarting a prison break.
BANFIELD: Good for him.
RING: He was in a very short tenure at the...
BANFIELD: So he`s the guy we`ve been calling for help.
I want to bring in Michelle DuPre, if I can. She`s a forensic pathologist and a medical examiner. Joins me from Columbia, South Carolina. All
right, Dr. DuPre, how did this child survive a 100-foot drop?
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, MEDICAL EXAMINER: This is amazing. To have such a horrible incident happen and such a wonderful
outcome. A lot of this -- when someone falls from a height like this, it depends on how they land in the water. Water is very hard. It`s very,
very hard to hit from such a fall, from such a long distance. She`s very lucky to be alive.
BANFIELD: And to be able to make that swim, as well. Real quickly, if she had been sexually assaulted, that swim, that she was forced to make, would
that have compromised any DNA that they potentially would have been able to retrieve from her?
DUPRE: Not necessarily. It really depends -- we don`t just look for DNA. Certainly, that is one thing we look for. But if she were sexually
assaulted, there would likely be other injuries associated with that assault that we would be able to determine.
BANFIELD: Do they check that right away? And I hate to be so clinical, but Dr. DuPre, this child has been through hell and has somehow waded out
of it. She is extraordinarily traumatized. It`s the middle of the night. She`s been near murdered. A second time, she`s been thrown off a bridge
and near murdered. And then she survived a swim. She`s soaking wet in her pajamas. Do we really start doing those kinds of exams or does that wait a
few days?
DUPRE: Well, it actually depends on the circumstances. And obviously, the very first thing is the child`s safety and well-being, taking any medical
issues into consideration. That is our first priority. Evidence gathering is something that happens later.
In this case, it sounds like she was in fairly good condition. So the exam could take place after her medical condition was determined to be OK.
BANFIELD: I mean, all things considered, bleeding, badly bruised, contusions on her legs, marks on her neck consistent with being choked.
But, I mean, you`re right, the evidence disappears much quicker with every passing hour. I want to bring in Anne Bremmer if I can again. He is only
charged with kidnapping.
ANNE BREMMER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
BANFIELD: And I am astounded. Because to me, just off the top of my pathetic little head --
BREMMER: Exactly.
BANFIELD: -- I`ve got attempted murder, torture, assault, sex and rape, what else could be --
BREMMER: Murder, everything. The fact is, over an hour with her, I mean, it`s the whole --
BANFIELD: Hour and a half.
BREMMER: Hour and a half. Anything about plausible deniability, works 911, schools, legitimate things.
BANFIELD: Can you testify well against somebody as a 7-year-old who`s gone through this traumatic set of injuries? Can a defense attorney say, oh,
come on, she`s 7, you can`t believe a child?
BREMMER: Sure. But the fact is, she`s competent as a witness as long as she knows the difference between the truth and a lie. The fact is, even when
she says that`s him, he`s the only one, the lawyer`s going to say, where was everybody else?
BANFIELD: Unless she said so-and-so, go get him. You just never know. I`ve got to leave it there.
BREMMER: That poor, poor kid.
BANFIELD: You know what, just wait, because me thinks kidnapping is just the tip of the iceberg, we`re going to watch to see what charges may come
down the line for Mr. Joshua Hubert.
An outrageous court appearance for a Missouri mother accused of killing her own 16-year-old daughter and then putting her into a burn pile in the
backyard. So as she shuffles to the front of the courtroom in a bulletproof vest chained at the wrists and the ankles, what do you think, what do you
think the first things she would say to that madam judge on the bench might be? You`re about to find out.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: For two weeks, sheriff`s deputies in the Ozarks of Missouri didn`t know what happened to a very sweet 16-year-old girl. Happy-go-lucky,
that`s how Savannah Leckie was described. Her mom reported her missing, but the investigators say that mom was acting rather strange.
Volunteers spent days searching for this teenager, but her mom, Rebecca Ruud, she just told everybody Savannah probably ran away. She wouldn`t let
the investigators search her property. Sheriff says she and the family weren`t cooperating with the law much, so they did what they usually do in
that circumstance, they go and get a warrant.
And when they did, they found Savannah. Her charred bones and a couple of her teeth in a burn pit close to her home. That mom, Rebecca Ruud, was
arrested trying to leave town, bags packed. So you`ve got to wonder what she would have to say to the judge when she made the first court appearance
today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You understand that you have a right to a preliminary hearing. The court has already made a probable cause determination.
REBECCA RUUD, MOTHER OF SAVANNAH LECKIE: Yes, your honor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Rebecca Ruud is super soft-spoken, but wearing a bulletproof vest and handcuffs, wanted to know about her money, her bank accounts. Why are
they frozen? She also wanted to know if she could get some skin cream. She did not utter a word, soft- spoken or otherwise, about Savannah Leckie, her
16-year-old dead, burned daughter.
Linda Russell is a reporter for CNN affiliate KYTV, and she joins me live from Springfield, Missouri. Linda --
LINDA RUSSELL, KYTV REPORTER (via telephone): Hi, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: -- take me inside that courtroom. You were in there. We could barely hear, because she was so soft-spoken and the microphone couldn`t
even catch what she was saying, but you heard. What did she say?
RUSSELL (via telephone): Yes. One thing that she said was that she wanted to get to her preliminary hearing as soon as possible. And just with that.
Then when the judge asked her if she had any questions, she was asking why her bank account was frozen. Also asked about getting some skin cream for
eczema. Those are the things that I heard from her.
BANFIELD: So when I look at the video, first, we`re looking at adorable Savannah who apparently loved animals, had been living on this farm with
her -- that`s her birth mom, by the way. Rebecca Ruud is her birth mom. Savannah had been brought up by adoptive parents, but, you know, things
weren`t going well with those adoptive parents.
The mom divorced and had a new boyfriend Savannah didn`t like, so she asked if she can sort of come back and stay with her birth mom, Rebecca, and she
was on this farm, and Rebecca had lots of complaints about Savannah`s behavior and said it was costing her lots of money.
When I looked at that video of her in court, Linda, I didn`t see any tears. I didn`t see a mom who`s devastated that her daughter was found in a
charred mess in a burn pit. Did I miss anything? Let`s show that video again of her in court. I don`t know if we can loop it again.
RUSSELL (via telephone): She seemed very calm, very comfortable. Wasn`t shy at all about asking the judge about her concerns. Yes, I didn`t see much
emotion.
BANFIELD: So her brand-new husband who incidentally she married on the day the remains of her daughter were found, he was in the courtroom, wasn`t he?
RUSSELL (via telephone): Yes. He and a few other people were in the seats right behind the media. He was there. And afterwards, I caught him outside
[20:40:00] and he said, I have no comment for you.
BANFIELD: He said, I have no comment. Robert Peat Jr. said, I have no comment for you. Let`s be real clear to our audience. Robert Peat Jr.,
brand-new husband of this woman, has not been charged in this crime. And, you know, when it comes to crimes like this, there are loads of people
under suspicion. We have no reason to believe he isn`t also under suspicion.
But he hasn`t been charged yet. The authorities have said that they certainly could see more charges coming down the line, or more people
coming down the line being charged with this. Why was she in a bulletproof vest? Is there like an incredible outrage in this community? Have there
been threats made against her life or her safety?
RUSSELL (via telephone): You know, I actually don`t know that. The sheriff might know. My only thought was, well, perhaps that. I`m sure there are
many, many people who are angered, so it might have been for that reason or it may have been just because the jail is a separate building from the
courthouse.
BANFIELD: We see it. We see it a lot. It can be standard as well. I want to bring in Michael Williams. He is a firefighter with Theodosia Area
Volunteer Fire Department. He not only worked with Rebecca Ruud, because she was with the Volunteer Fire Department, but he also knew and worked
with Savannah Leckie, because as a 16-year-old, she also volunteered with the Fire Department.
Michael, thanks for being with us. I want to ask you about a very strange occurrence that happened before Savannah disappeared or at least before we
knew she disappeared. You were called out to her property, to Rebecca and Savannah`s home, and mom was saying, oh, geez, we`ve had a fire, and I got
burned trying to move my chainsaw and my log splitter and my daughter got burned, too. But when you got there, what did you see?
MICHAEL WILLIAMS, FIREFIGHTER, THEODOSIA AREA VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): We just seen a small brush fire. Never seen Savannah. She
was pointing everybody to where the fire was. And then that`s where I stayed. Until we got the fire out. We came down off the hill, me and a
couple of other firefighters, asked if we could get some cold water.
And her new husband went to take us down to the house and she is sure upset about it. She said Savannah was in their camper that they had there and
taking a shower, cooling off. And there was no curtains. And at that time we thought nothing of it.
BANFIELD: And even though she said Savannah got burned, too, she did not offer to get her daughter out of that cool shower to get treatment and she
sure wouldn`t let you guys see Savannah?
WILLIAMS (via telephone): Right.
BANFIELD: Did you suspect once you heard all of this, that that fire might have been the fire that killed Savannah?
WILLIAMS (via telephone): At the time, no.
BANFIELD: What about now?
WILLIAMS (via telephone): Honestly, I still don`t know. I mean, not being able to say we seen her, makes it kind of hard to say if she was even there
alive then or not.
BANFIELD: Michael, I know that you were close to her. I know that your kids played with Savannah. I am so sorry for your loss. And I am so sorry you`re
embroiled in all of this. I am thankful that you spoke with us, and I hope we get some justice for this 16-year-old beautiful child. No one deserves
this. No one.
WILLIAMS (via telephone): No, they don`t.
BANFIELD: I want to take you to southeast Texas if I can tonight. There are hundreds of thousands of people who are -- they need your help. They are
coping with catastrophic flooding from hurricane Harvey.
There is an urgent need not only for these rescues, but for blood donations and tangible items like food and clothing. So please help out your fellow
citizens. Go to cnn.com/impact and you can impact your world. You can change things. You can help. They need you big. They need all of us.
I also want to tell you about a Houston police officer. That officer ended up trapped in a flood zone when he was on his way to help others. His trip
to helping those others ended in tragedy because he drowned on his way to serve the people of Houston.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once they got there, it was too treacherous to go under and look for him. So we made a decision to leave officers there waiting
until the morning, because as much as we wanted to recover him last night, we could not put more officers at risk. It will be a recovery mission.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Today in Texas, police are waist deep in water helping strangers escape their flooded homes, as their own homes or their own families might
be at grave risk. In fact, today we learned that a 34-year-old veteran of the Houston Police Department, Sergeant Steve Perez, died over the weekend,
while trying to get to work during the flood.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, we couldn`t find him. And once our dive team got there, it was too treacherous to go under and look for him. So we made a
decision to leave officers there waiting until the morning, because as much as we wanted to recover him last night, we could not put more officers at
risk.
This morning at 8:00 a.m., the dive team was out there again, which was their number one priority. And within 20 minutes, they found him.
Unfortunately, in the darkness, Sergeant Perez drove
[20:50:00] into an underpass that`s about 16-1/2 feet, drove into the water, and he died in a flood. His wife told me she had asked him not to go
in. She tells me, I told him not to go to work. His father-in-law, who is a Korean war veteran from the army, combat veteran, told him not to go.
Because the conditions were so bad. And his response was, we`ve got work to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Police run into dangerous situations when everyone else runs out. Public servants make split-second decisions, life-and-death decisions every
day on the job.
In Johnson County, North Carolina, officers confronted a woman at the scene of a car crash. She was lying on the ground, and she looked like she was
hurt. I want to show you this video. And I want to warn you, it is graphic video, but I think it really helps put us mere civilians in the shoes of
the men and the women who risk their lives to protect us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me see your hands. Let me see your hands. She`s got a gun. Get back. Let me see your hands. Get on the ground. Get on the
ground. I see the weapon. Don`t draw it! Don`t do it! Don`t do it!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Obviously we have frozen that video before she fell to the ground. She survived those shots, believe it or not, but she did end up in
the hospital and three days later, she died. On Friday, the Johnson County district attorney announced there would be no charges filed against those
two officers who were involved in the shooting.
And I think since you`ve seen the video, you probably have a good understanding of why. I want to bring in Anne Bremmer on that script.
That`s the kind of thing that I say is a no-brainer.
BREMMER: Right. I defended police officers, I don`t want to say how many years, about 25, 30 years. Seattle, Portland, Chicago. And deadly force
cases, being on call for those officers. I have never seen a police officer be other than completely despondent about having to be involved in fatality
shooting. And the law says we don`t judge it by 20/20 hindsight, armchair quarterbacking --
BANFIELD: Yes.
BREMMER: The split-second decisions like you mentioned earlier are tough.
BANFIELD: And listen, I know the controversy over shooting, certainly when there are unarmed black people who are shot dead by police officers, and
until you walk in the shoes of those who face the barrel of a gun, like these people did, it`s kind of hard to pass judgment. Every case is
different. But that one, that was real --
BREMMER: And they said, don`t do it, don`t do it.
BANFIELD: Don`t do it, don`t do it, and the gun came up and she fired. All right. I also want to tell you about a very different kind of situation in
Washington state. Police officer, again, on patrol, approaches a man who`s on a bridge and he certainly appears to be suicidal. He was standing on the
railing of the Snohomish River Bridge, when Officer Holodkov approached him. And what happened next is going to take your breath away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come talk to me. Don`t jump. Come talk to me. Can you get off the ledge for me? Come on, don`t do it. Don`t do it. Come talk to
me real quick. Say it again? I can`t hear you. What`s your name? What`s your name? Can you come talk to me? What`s going on with you? Would you
mind talking to me?
Would you mind talking to me? Did you want to talk to me, kind of let me know what`s going on? Not much? Can you come down off the ledge, chat with
me real quick? Can you come talk to me real quick? What`s going on with you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t do it. Don`t do it. Don`t do it.
[20:55:00] Stop. Don`t do it. It`s really not worth it, buddy. It`s just not worth it. It isn`t worth it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Thank you, Officer Holodkov. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: My thanks to Anne Bremmer. Thank you so much for being here. Good to see you in person too, by the way.
BREMMER: Wonderful to see you.
BANFIELD: And thank you for being here. See you back here tomorrow night at 8:0 for "Primetime Justice." In the meantime, stay tuned right now.
"Forensic Files" begins right away.
[21:00:00]
END
