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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Security Source: Timer Found On Explosive Device; U.K. Prime Minister: Threat Level Remains At Severe; London Mayor: Terrorists Won't Divide Our City; Police: Most Injuries From Flash Burns, Not Serious; White House Responds To Criticism Of Trump's Tweets; Eyewitness Describes London Tube Attack; U.N. Security Council Meeting On North Korea; North Korea Fires Another Missile Over Japan; Rights Groups: Rohingya Villages Deliberately Burned. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired September 15, 2017 - 15:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Good evening to our viewers around the world. I'm Hala Gorani.
Continuing our breaking news coverage of the explosion on a London tube this morning during rush hour. Right now, a manhunt is still underway for
whoever was behind that incident on a London tube train.
This is what we know, it is being treated as terrorism and a source tells CNN the device likely contained the explosive TATP. As you can see from
this image taken by a commuter, it was crude. It was poorly designed. It was in a bucket inside of a shopping bag and had wires protruding from the
Now, 29 people were taken to the hospital with mostly minor injuries. Thankfully, no one was killed and there are no life-threatening issues.
CNN's Nima Elbagir confirmed a critical piece of news about the nature of the attack and that is that there was a timer on that device. She is at
the scene with more on the investigation.
And what does it tell us the fact that this device had a timer that apparently was designed to be remotely detonated?
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It tells us that while as you saw the execution of the device was certainly crude, the
ambition behind its design, the intent behind its design was to have caused much greater damage.
Imagine, I mean, it's almost unthinkable if that device has been detonated underground, if that device had been detonated at (inaudible) or some other
central London location. I mean, while it's, of course, unfortunate that this kind of (inaudible) use of a lazy suburb.
Imagine what would have happened if this had gone off in the center of town. And eyewitnesses, those on the case that we've been speaking to said
that, you know, that happens (inaudible) extended to the device going off clearly no one it was extended to as the doors were opening in an over
So that meant that often many of the injuries in this kind of incidences happen because of trampling, people trapped in that contained space here.
People were able to get out and get to safety, Hala.
So that's really what's in the back of the minds of all the authorities that are trying to hunt down whatever network was involved in this that
this time it was crude and unsuccessful. But what could happen next time, Hala?
GORANI: Yes. That is always the concern. Obviously, the government is also reacting telling people to be vigilant but stay calm and also
interestingly responding to a tweet by the U.S. president, Donald Trump.
ELBAGIR: Even though they've often said that these tweets are a distraction. We've had both the prime minister and the London mayor
responding. Take a listen to what Theresa May had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The threat level remained severe. That means the terrorist attack is highly likely, but this will be kept
under review as the investigation progresses.
And the public should go about their daily lives, but remain vigilant and people who are traveling in London will see an increase armed piece
presence on the transport network and they will see security will be increased and the peace will, of course, do what is necessary to protect
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELBAGIR: What you'd be looking for from the prime minister at this kind of time, although she could not help but add that that President Trump's
tweets were pure speculation and speculation is unhelpful.
As for the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, well, he and Donald Trump certainly have form and he claim to not even have been aware of the tweets, which is
pretty unlikely, but this is what he had to say -- Hala.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SADIQ KHAN, LONDON MAYOR: As the mayor of London, I spent this morning working closely with the police restoring services (inaudible) police,
paramedics, the fire service, (inaudible) staff and others to grapple with the issue of terrorist trying to kill, injure, and disrupt our way of life.
I haven't a chance to look at Twitter alone tweets. What I do know is that there are many Americans in London who love London. There are many
Americans and not just in America, but around the world to stand shoulder to shoulder with Londoners to make sure we stand together against these
[15:05:08] These evil and cowardly individuals who want to divide us and disrupt our way of lives. As the mayor of London, I can say this and speak
for Londoners, we are not going to allow to do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELBAGIR: You of course remember, Hala, how unhappy the home secretary, Amber Rudd, was after President Trump tweeted out following the Manchester
attack and the leak that British authorities blamed on the U.S. administration, which they said they believe hampered their investigation.
Hampered them closing the net around many of those that they sought to lay hands on. So, this now, two out of two, that being perceived as incredibly
unhelpful by those we are speaking to in the British government.
GORANI: All right. Nima, we'll see you later this hour for more from the scene. I want to get some more analysis on today's event. I'm joined in
the studio here by Peter Neumann, the director of the International Center for the Study of Radicalization and Political Violence. Thanks very much
for joining us.
First of all, we are -- it has been announced by the Metropolitan Police that we will have an update in about 25 minutes time. We do not know if
they will reveal the identity of the suspect. but what we are learning today, what does it tell you about the attack, about who might be behind
PETER NEUMANN, DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF RADICALIZATION: It looks like a very amateurish attack. It clearly was
not meant to go off in that particular place. It was not constructed while it was viable according to the police, but it did not set off in the way it
was meant to be.
And that points to people who are perhaps not trained abroad, but perhaps a more inspired. And I think is also significant that the threat level was
not raised today. I think that indicates that the police probably presumes that it was just that one person and there is no further network outset,
but we will learn more about that.
GORANI: There are reports that the suspect has been identified, we have not confirmed but if that is the case, and have not raised the threat level
perhaps it is because they believe it is not a wide, wide network.
But I find it interesting the fact that there was a timer and that the objective was to detonate it remotely. This is not the M.O. of the attacks
we have seen in the past where even vans ramming into people.
The objective in the end or the expectation in the end is that it will end in death for the attacker, in this case no.
NEUMANN: Sure, but I mean, if for example, we assume for a second, it was a group like Islamic State. They are promoting a whole variety of
different methods of attack. If you read their magazines, you can see their saying, "If you are really stupid, grab a knife. If you can drive,
drive a truck.
If you can build a bomb, if you have some kind of experience, if you had a technical job or something like that, here's an instruction on how to build
an explosive device and what you are saying is right, there has been a shift.
Whereas previously Al Qaeda was always very keen on martyrdom operations for its own sake because they thought that would scare people. IS is
telling people, for example, try to carry on as long as you can martyrdom will happen at the end.
But if you can flee from the scene and if you can kill more people until you get shot by the police that is even better as far as we are concerned,
that is a bit of a shift, yes.
GORANI: OK. Now the other thing is, obviously, you mentioned it, which was the fact that it was a very amateurish attack that this was intended to
kill more people, but TATP, let's talk a little bit about that because there are reports that authorities believe that's possibly what was in that
device. What (inaudible)?
NEUMANN: That would be significant and TATP is an explosive substance that is often used by ISIS previously by Al Qaeda. However, it is also a
substance that is quite difficult to produce and it is often quite unstable.
You have seen a number of attempted attacks with TATP that either ended up like in Barcelona where they didn't end up using it, but instead blew up
the house where it was stored or where the device was brought to the place, but then did not go off or went off in the wrong way.
GORANI: Now Donald Trump and this is what has provoked the frustration that they believe that some officials here tweeted this. The U.S.
president said -- he described the perpetrators as -- or the perpetrator as a loser terrorist adding, "This sick and demented people were in the sights
of Scotland Yard, must be proactive."
And it's not clear what evidence Mr. Trump actually had to back up that claim. The White House itself tried to explain that moments ago. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president shared information that he wasn't supposed to and if not, why was he speculating?
H.R. MCMASTER, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I think what the president was communicating is that obviously all is the obviously all of our law
enforcement efforts are focused on this terrorist threat from, you know, for years Scotland Yard has been a leader as our FBI has been a leader.
So, I think if there was a terrorist attack here, God forbid, that we would say that they were in the sights of the FBI. So, I think he didn't mean
anything beyond that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:10:09] GORANI: That's the national security adviser in the United States saying well, he didn't mean anything beyond that. We can see that a
lot. The back headline of top officials from Donald Trump --
NEUMANN: It can't be true. He couldn't have known because it's a fact that the whole day the police has been trolling through the CCTV, these
video images. They have looked at them in order to identify the suspect.
By the time he tweeted that tweet, it was totally unclear to the police here as well to everyone else who the suspect was. The suspect was only
identified within the last two hours. So up until two hours ago, even Scotland Yard did not know who that person was or whether that person was
ever in their sight.
GORANI: Also same for instance as H.R. McMaster said there in the aftermath of an attack in any country saying security services and the
police must have had the suspect before the identification is made official, in their sights would be also something that would be difficult
to believe, to back up.
NEUMANN: I think it was trying to rationalize the tweet, but I do not think we know for sure at all whether these people were in the sights of
Scotland Yard or anyone else.
GORANI: All right, well, we have discussed that and hopefully we'll be able to speak again very soon after we hear from the Metropolitan Police.
Their update is due in about 20 minutes time. We hope we get some more information from them.
Also, some reports we might be hearing from top government officials so we will speak you a little bit later. Peter Neumann as always, thanks so
But let us talk about someone who lives through this during rush hour at Parsons Green, Chris Wildish was on the train when the device exploded. He
joins me now via Skype with more on exactly what he saw.
Chris, thanks so much for being with me. First talk to us about what happened to you this morning on that.
CHRIS WILDISH, EYEWITNESS: It was the usual tedious commute that many, many Londoners take every day. Let Wimbledon as normally did, train got
fuller over the two stops before we got to Parsons Green. Stopped in Parsons Green, doors opened, closed again.
And out of the corner of my eye, I was sitting reading, I was in the carriage next to the carriage where the device was. Then all of a sudden
there was stumping sound. It wasn't a bang like we would expect an explosion to be.
It was more (inaudible) sound and at the corner of my eye just saw this flash of flame that went kind up into the ceiling of the train, to the roof
of the train. There was then a kind of a pause. I think it's while people decided or got the hits around what was happening.
And then a very strong smell of chemicals came through the train quite quickly and it was what amounted to stampede as people were running away
from the explosion. Thankfully by then that doors had started opening again so people could run off the train and on to the platform.
GORANI: So did you realize -- I mean, it took you a beat there. You mentioned there was a bit of -- kind of -- people around you were stunned.
You probably did not know right away what it was. How quickly did you realize this was an explosion and what went through your mind at that
WILDISH: I actually thought that we've been hit by a train from behind because people are running towards us and I've seen this flash of light and
it's only once we've kind of got out onto the platform when we saw the injured people.
And you could look into the train and see the device sitting in the corner of the train that you -- penny drop that, you know, this has been an
explosion. It's -- you are not expecting it so I think your first thought is that somebody's laptop exploded or did somebody's, you know, iPhone
But when you saw the device standing in the corner then it's a strange feeling. It's almost disbelief and then realization. So yes, there was
that slight split second and then the people running through the platform.
I can tell you people were going there is a knife, gun, people shouting and screaming, but only once we got off on the platform and look back into the
train did we see there was this device.
GORANI: So, you realize there was an explosion. So, at first -- the sequence of events is at first you thought we've been hit by another train.
Then you thought, OK, there was something that went off, some sort of explosion, perhaps it was a laptop. At what point do you think we are
under attack. This could be a terrorist attack?
WILDISH: I think it's when the very strong chemical smell started moving to the train and once you're off the train and you could look back into the
drain and you saw this divorce was standing in the corner and there were a lot of people who were burned Particularly around their faces and head, and
then the penny kind of drops that hold on a moment this is more than a laptop. There's an explosion that's gone off here.
GORANI: And you ran with everyone else?
[15:15:00] I spoke to other eyewitness, who said her worry at that point was, I mean, I'm going to fall over in a stampede and someone will step on
me and that is where the danger lies now. Did you ever feel at risk in that way?
WILDISH: No question. As people -- I mean, it's like -- it's a strange experience, people -- it's like a wave of people running towards you
screaming and nothing you could do about it.
And I think the concern was, first of all, there were quite a few children on the train. It's a route that children regularly take to school and
because the train was very confined people were falling over and being trampled on and --
You get into a position where there is real risk of people getting hurt by that far more than by what the explosion was. So, it was real panic. It
was real -- stampede is the best way to describe it.
And thankfully the doors opened so pressure of the stampede, if you will, could dissipate out the doors as people kind of escaped onto the platforms.
GORANI: And finally, one last question, where this happened actually 12 hours ago exactly almost to the minute. Now that you have an opportunity
to reflect back, are you -- I mean, what's your state of mind now?
WILDISH: A little bit shaken. I think I was keen to get home to be with my family, which I think is logical, a little bit shaken, but I don't know
maybe I'm just a realist going -- up until this morning that chances this happening to me would have zero.
It's not happened and I'm OK. I think Londoners are resilient people. They are not going to let this kind of stuff get them down. They are not
going to let us -- let it scare us and life will continue.
Obviously, you have to cautious. Obviously, you have to be careful and watch what you are doing, but as a resilient population, we will keep
going. This kind of thing can't stop one of the world's greatest cities --
GORANI: It's not going to change your morning commute basically?
WILDISH: No, no. I think if we give in then we -- if we give into the fear then we give into the terrorists and that we must avoid that.
GORANI: Chris Wildish, really appreciate you are being on. Thanks so much for sharing your story. Chris Wildish was on the train where this
explosion took place and he joined us now via Skype. Many thanks to you.
Now let's turn -- we'll get back to more on what happened in London today in a moment, but first, let us turn our attention to North Korea and here
is a sound that is becoming shockingly familiar.
That was the sound heard once again across a Northern Japanese island as another North Korean missile flew directly over the country the second time
in as many weeks. The missile is said to have flown 3700 kilometers, the furthest of any North Korean intermediate-range missile and within range of
the U.S. territory of Guam.
It is a major show of defiance obviously after the U.N. slapped the increased sanctions on the secretive nation. This hour the Security
Council is meeting to try to work out what to do next. It's happening behind closed doors. Nothing on camera right now.
One person not there is the American representative, Nikki Haley. That is because she was in Washington and spoke earlier about sanctions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI HALEY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: You have to look at how much has been cutoff. They've already started to feel it, but they are
getting ready to feel 90 percent of their exports going away, 30 percent of their oil, imagine what that would do to the United States if it was there.
And you know, if you look at what -- I was looking at what North Korea was saying, they said it was it was a full-scale economic blockade suffocating
its state and its people. This is dramatic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. Nikki Haley there. Will Ripley has just returned from North Korea. He's been there many times. He joins me now from Tokyo. So,
Will, I'd like to say that this is a surprise, but I think everyone could have predicted based on past actions that North Korea would probably go
ahead and cast another missile after these sanctions.
But is there is any kind of -- is anything that Nikki Haley says likely to pan out in the sense that these sanctions are going to bite a lot more and
it could potentially hurt them economically and change the behavior in terms of missile launches?
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There is no doubt, Hala, that these sanctions make it more difficult for North Korea to bring in
revenue because now they are not allowed to sell their textiles or their coal or their lead or their iron or their seafood.
And if this was all enforced and everything went as it is written down on paper, you'd be cutting more than $2 billion from North Korea's already
very limited export income, but there is a black market. There are ways to get around sanctions.
North Korea has become very good at that. As we have seen and as I witnessed just last week in the country where people's living standards in
Pyongyang, at least, which is the capital, of course, they have the highest living standard.
[15:20:01] Many people in the country have a significantly lower, very difficult, hard life, but in the North Korean capital, people are driving
cars more often. They have cell phones. They have the store shelves are stocked.
And they say that under Kim Jong-un their lives are getting better and the North Korean economy is estimated to have grown about 4 percent last year
according to South Korea's Central Bank so -- and that was despite round after round of increasingly heavy sanctions.
So, could these be the sanctions that turn the corner? Possibly. If that happens and if North Korea has a much more difficult economic situation,
will it stop them from launching missiles?
The sense I get from repeated discussions with North Korean officials is absolutely not. Since President Trump's fire and fury remarks, they have
launched two intermediate range missiles over Japan.
They attempted to launch three short range missiles and they conducted their largest nuclear test ever. So, clearly that's the response from
GORANI: All right, well, it doesn't seem like this strategy is working. Thanks very much. Will Ripley is in Tokyo. By the way, Will had been
reporting inside North Korea for the past week, his 15th visit there.
You can get an exclusive look at the country like you have never seen before on "Secret State." Watch it tomorrow Saturday at 8 PM in London, 9
PM in Berlin on CNN.
Still ahead this evening, human rights groups say Myanmar is ethnically cleansing Rohingya Muslims and they say they have evidence that proves it.
We'll show you new satellite imagery ahead.
GORANI: Human rights groups say the evidence is irrefutable, Myanmar security forces are conducting a scorched-earth campaign to drive out
Rohingya Muslims. Human Rights Watch issued a new report today accusing Myanmar of deliberately burning Rohingya villages near the Bangladeshi
It also released satellite imagery of villages where buildings have been destroyed. They match similar findings by Amnesty International. Some
400,000 Rohingya have now fled to Bangladesh from Myanmar to escape the violence in just the past few weeks.
And our Alexandra Field visited a refugee camp in Bangladesh today and she joins me now live. Tell us what you saw today, Alexandra.
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Hala. We were just about 3 kilometers from the border with Myanmar so that's part of the
border where these refugees are streaming across every day. The estimates are that 10,000 or 20,000 are coming over every single day.
That's how you got to this absolutely massive number, 400,000 refugees in just the last three weeks. The people that we are meeting here, some of
them have bullets lodged in their bodies. They tell stories about their homes being firebombed and then how they were shot at by the military as
they tried to flee those burning homes and villages.
This is not an easy journey out. We are hearing from entire families that are walking for days on and under fire toward that border before they are
able to cross over into safety here in Bangladesh, but conditions are difficult for them when they arrived.
[15:25:08] This is in extreme humanitarian crisis given the sheer number of the incoming refugees. International aid organizations tell us they simply
cannot keep up with the need. They are trying to prioritize.
We did see these groups doing aid distributions. They are giving out water, food, doing some medical care, but they say they can only reach the
most vulnerable population first, Hala, that would be children, women, and those who are the sickest right now.
They are trying to get the most badly injured in the area to hospitals. But the big issue right now is simply finding shelter for all of these
refugees who have arrived, these 400,000 Rohingyas come in last three weeks on top of another 400,000 Rohingya refugees who were already living here on
the border right here in Bangladesh.
The aid organizations tell me they are preparing for the possibility that this crisis will become even worst. They say it's possible they could
still see tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands more refugees streaming into the country looking for safe have -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, thanks very much. Great reporting. Alexandra Field there following the Rohingya refugees forced to flee from Myanmar.
We'll get back to our top story next. Our correspondent is at the scene of the London tube attack as police and security forces search for the
perpetrator and as we await a police statement coming soon. We'll be right back.
GORANI: Welcome. We want to bring you the very latest on our top story that manhunt for the person or persons who carried out an attack on a
London tube train at rush hour this morning. It was an improvised explosive device.
It was found at the scene and there you see some amateur footage of it burning inside the carriage. And a source tells CNN the device probably
contained an explosive substance called TATP, which is very volatile and difficult to manipulate.
Well, investigators also came across a timer on the device. It was all very crude, pretty amateurish. The idea was to cause a lot more damage,
but thankfully there were no death. No serious injuries. Twenty nine people were injured in the blast.
Nima Elbagir joins me now live from outside the Parsons Green tube station with the latest on the investigation. And so far, still no word on who the
suspect or suspects are.
ELBAGIR: No, but we are expecting any moment now a press conference from the London Metropolitan Police force and hopefully they will have more
details. It's particularly unsettling given that this incident began at 8:20 in the morning and the London mayor confirmed to you, Hala, that there
was an ongoing manhunt and not have heard any more details so much of today.
The cordon here has been retreated, it has been pushed a little closer to the tube station. So, that's been good news for some of the residents
around here, some of the houses. People have been allowed to return to that.
But there have been so many of these incidents within the last six months before today that I think while there is, of course, that great British
spirit and Brits attempting to live up to that cliche of keep calm and carry on, there is also a sense now that people need to see something and
that they're hoping that something will emerge at that press conference, Hala.
GORANI: Yes, certainly. It's always unnerving when whoever the suspect is is still on the loose and the hope is that that person will be apprehended
Let's talk a little bit more about that news that that you confirmed with your sources earlier that there was a timer on the device, that it was a
pretty crude mixture of volatile explosive substances that didn't go off quite possibly as planned. What does that tell us?
ELBAGIR: Well, this, while having been quite an amateur effort, that the intent was definitely ambitious. That's the sense that those sources who
were briefed on the contents of this improvised device are getting. That's at least the working assumption, we understand, of the investigation that
this was intended to cause much greater havoc.
Of course, further along the district line is Westminster where parliament is, Hala. So, you can only imagine what would have happened if it had
detonated at Westminster stop, deep under ground at the heart of London's - well, Britain's legislative seat.
So, that is really what is on so many of these sources' minds as they look to push this investigation forward. This could have been worse. The
intent was there for it to be worse and they all acknowledge to us both on the record and off, Hala, that this is now being seen as a shift in
tactics, that there is very likely more still to come here, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Nima Elbagir, thanks very much. We'll speak again after we hear more from the police, The Scotland Yard. New Scotland Yard,
as Nima mentioned there, scheduled to give us some sort of update soon.
Now, as we were discussing, terror has struck the UK four times already this year, including that deadly attack on a concert in Manchester and the
threat level currently sounds that severe.
But that doesn't mean two passengers were in any way prepared for what happened at Parsons Green. I mean, this is not the center of a busy,
bustling center. It's not Piccadilly Circus. I mean, this feels a little bit more leafy and suburban, if you will.
Nina dos Santos reports now on the fear and chaos that broke out after the explosion.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Terror on London's tube. Commuters caught up in chaos as an improvised explosive
device detonates at the height of the Friday rush hour, leaving more than 20 injured and an entire city reeling.
Ambulances rushed to the scene, treating many for burns and the effects of trampling. Some of the victims included children.
SALLY FOLDING, WITNESS: (INAUDIBLE) on the train platform. People were falling down, people were clearly injured, people were screaming
(INAUDIBLE). Then I found my colleague here (INAUDIBLE). She was further down the carriage. She actually saw (INAUDIBLE).
ALEX WELDON, WITNESS: People are, obviously, being treated for burns either to their face or to limbs. They've been wrapped in cling film and
you can see their skins red raw (ph).
SANTOS: The device stored in a bucket in a plastic bag and fitted with a timer was intended to cause greater damage.
(on-camera): This is the fifth attack on British soil so far this year, with four of those events taking place inside the capital. But what's
different about the events in Westminster and London Bridge from what happened in Parson Green is that this wasn't an attack on tourists and
Saturday night revelers.
Instead, it was commuters and people taking their children to school who were caught up and that's left the community in this affluent West London
For local resident Katy Llewellyn-Jones this is the second time she's seen terror up close after finding herself in London Bridge on the night of that
attack in June.
KATY LLEWELLYN-JONES, LOCAL RESIDENT: It's frightening that they've been able to attack so many times. I mean, we have a sense that they're not
stopping. So, that is really concerning.
SANTOS (voice-over): The scenes at Parsons Green, a remainder of the vulnerability of London's transport network, one of the busiest in the
world and vital to residential neighborhoods like these. It was last hit 12 years ago, when 52 people lost their lives in four suicide bombings.
[15:35:07] A manhunt is underway to find the individual behind this attack and once more security will be stepped up.
Nina Dos Santos, CNN in Parsons Green, London.
GORANI: Well, the US President Trump took a hardline on the London terrorist attack on Twitter today. One of his tweets read, "Loser
terrorists must be dealt with with a much tougher manner. The Internet is their main recruitment tool which we must cut off and use better."
Let's talk about all of this with White House reporter Stephen Collinson. We're also joined by CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem.
Stephen, I just want to start with you there on these tweets. I mean, we know how long it took the president to describe as a terrorist attack what
happened, say, in Charlottesville, Virginia, but how quickly, almost at dawn in Washington DC, he tweeted about what happened in London. Really
kind of irritating UK officials before any information was confirmed. Why do you think that is?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, "CNN POLITICS" WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There's clearly a double standard there and this is not behavior that you would
expect of an American president while a terror attack was unfolding on the soil of America's closest ally. But we've seen all these months that
Donald Trump breaks every single mold.
I think what Donald Trump does is, he sits there in the White House early in the morning watching television and sort of tweets his visceral
reactions for this, without waiting for official intelligence briefings from his staffers.
It's very interesting. I think this is who Donald Trump is. He immediately looks to these situations, not through a national security
lens, or through the role of being president. He seeks political advantage where it - he talks about - it allows him to pose as tough on terror, as he
did in his campaign. And it allows him to speak to his base as someone who abhors political correctness and who calls things as he sees them.
And we've been having this conversation in recent days in Washington about whether Donald Trump's base would dessert him because he's going to do
deals with the Democrats on immigration. I think this is a very political reaction to what happened and it reflects the way Donald Trump is able to
speak to his supporters, no matter what damage it might seem to do outside the United States.
GORANI: Right. And even used the incident this morning to sort of tweet in support of a wider even travel ban. He called it a travel ban.
Juliette, let me ask you a little bit about the MO here because we've been discussing it quite a bit. We discussed it with Peter Neumann as well, of
What do you make of the fact that this was left kind of remotely, whoever the perpetrator has left, but there was a timer on it, that it was
extremely amateurish and that it went off probably at the wrong station actually, at Parsons Green, kind of outside of the center. What's your
first read on that?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: All of those theories are accurate. I mean, in the sense that this was rushed and unsophisticated
and a terrorist who did not want to die. I mean, in other words, people are always wondering, why aren't guys just blowing themselves up all the
Well, they are in certain parts of the world. It's harder to do, to convince someone to do that.
So, what I am looking at is it looks very unsophisticated, something that you can learn online, someone who was not so a part of whatever was
animating that they were willing to die for it, and someone who wasn't able to detonate in a more crowded area. We can - therefore, not having the
impact that these other attacks have had and fortunately not having the fatalities.
So, this is the challenge. But also, one has to say, maybe the hope of what's happening now, the challenges, it's impossible to stop every person
like this. We know this. There's just not enough resources. Men are getting radicalized very quickly.
And the second, though, is that these attacks are not - at least this one has been unsuccessful.
GORANI: And, Juliette - and I'll get back to Stephen in a moment on the political angle here, but the fact that the authorities now have sort of an
intact IED, that they probably have forensic evidence, that this guy is on the loose, which means they'll probably eventually catch him.
I mean, if you look at a silver lining, it's a tiny sliver, but it's there, and that is that that might give them some sort of operational intelligence
that they can use to prevent the next bigger one.
KAYYEM: Yes. You have to assume that there are good fingerprints on this and this device is essentially intact. In other words, a lot of times we
get sort of fragments of fingerprints. I would suspect that this is an investigation that you and I don't know exactly what's happening, but it's
very far along in terms of identification of the person.
We're waiting for Scotland Yard right now. They may know the name of the person.
[15:40:14] I will say that is also why, not politically, but just why national leaders tend not to chime in on issues related to investigations
because they are ongoing.
In other words, they are looking for someone right now. So, to have other political leaders, whether it's President Trump or anyone, chime in, that
is not only sort of untraditional, it actually could harm the investigation. We try to protect law enforcement and counterintelligence,
counterterrorism from politics for this reason.
They have a job to do and that's to find a potential mass murderer.
GORANI: Well, it's not the first time that UK is a little upset with the US after the Manchester bombing.
We know there were leaks from US sources that had obtained pictures of, in fact, the detonator and some of the bombing components of the Manchester
Arena and leaked them to the media in America. That really, really irritated the UK.
Stephen, we understand from sources here that the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Theresa May actually told Donald Trump over the phone this
is not helpful, you tweeting about the fact that this suspect was known to authorities.
COLLINSON: Yes. So, they did have a phone call earlier today. And even publicly, Theresa May said that it was helpful for leaders or anybody to
speculate about who was behind these attacks.
But I don't think it's going to stop Donald Trump the next time it happens. You mentioned the Manchester incident there. During the campaign, he had a
real set-to with the Mayor of London Sadiq Khan over his handling of terror attacks over Twitter.
And I think this is one of the reasons why this state visit that Donald Trump is waiting to have to the United Kingdom has not taken place. He's
been to France, he's been to Germany, he shortly will be going to see US allies in Asia. But it doesn't look like his visit to the United Kingdom
will come off this year, if at all.
One of the reasons is because he's so unpopular among the British people. And as you know, Theresa May has a very sort of narrow political power
base, a narrow majority and she can't really afford to have these political eruptions in the present, continually putting her in a difficult position.
We saw when she came to Washington earlier this year and she was pictured sort of holding hands with Donald Trump, how badly that went down on the
day, in fact, that Donald Trump announced the first iteration of that Muslim travel ban.
So, it's clearly a real political problem for the British prime minister as well as sort of problem for law enforcement, as Juliette was saying.
GORANI: And, Juliette, if this indeed is some sort of ISIS/Islamist- inspired thing, this badly constructed bucket bob, whatever you want to call it, what does that tell us about what the group is able to pull off at
KAYYEM: I think it tells us - based on these assumptions that we have to say clearly are assumptions, a couple of things. One is that this is still
I think viewed by ISIS - will be viewed by ISIS as a success.
In other words, they were able to convince someone in a western country that they have sort of vowed war against to try to do an attack because
ISIS isn't simply about the death rate. It is about a sense of unease and instability that they can generate in the West through the tentacles of
social media and their outreach. So, I think that's one thing.
The good news - and we're going to look for good news - is that the level of sophistication is just not there, that they are not able to train, it's
harder to get to Syria and other places to train and then come back into these countries. That's because of the international effort to close off a
lot of the movement of these people back and forth.
GORANI: All right. Juliette Kayyem and Stephen Collinson, thanks very much for joining us. We're still awaiting. And by the way, we're also
waiting for the US President Donald Trump to make an appearance and New Scotland Yard to update us on the investigation. We'll be right back.
[15:41:27] GORANI: Welcome back. Just a reminder that we are expecting two live events. The president of the United States is due to make an
appearance. You have the stage set for that on the left. And also, an update by the police, New Scotland Yard.
The announcement that was sent to the media was that they would make a statement at 8:30 PM British time. It is now 8:46 PM and we are still
waiting for the Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley to update us. When either of those events gets underway, we will bring it to you live.
A quick update on Irma, the aftermath of that terrible hurricane. Some celebrities are lending a hand to the recovery effort in the aftermath of
The American actor Robert De Niro has been involved in a luxury hotel project on the island of Barbuda. The hurricane damaged some 95 percent of
the structures on that island - 95 percent!
And Barbuda and Anguilla's ambassador to the US says the storm wiped out an entire civilization. Poppy Harlow asked Robert De Niro whether the island
could rebuild. Listen.
ROBERT DE NIRO, ACTOR: It's not easy. And I don't even know with myself what I'm going to be asked to do and do to help, but I'll be there.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, the project that you were and are working on is a luxury hotel. Tourism is the lifeblood of these islands.
DE NIRO: Yes.
HARLOW: It's everything. It's the economic engine. Without it, they lose so much. And Barbuda doesn't have that now.
DE NIRO: Right.
HARLOW: As you watched the devastation in real time over the weekend, did you ever question, should we build this anymore?
DE NIRO: No. Because, I mean, as devastating as it is and as terrible as it is, it will come back. That's not going to be stopped. So, we want to
be part of that.
HARLOW: You and your team down there have been working not just on the hotel, but also on creating a 90 percent renewable energy program -
DE NIRO: Yes.
HARLOW: - for Barbuda. Is there an onus on those who have wealth, who develop like you, to do more outside?
DE NIRO: You have to. Our intention is to help the island. The island has to be healthy and back up and running. And at the same time, what
we're doing with the hotel, that's great, but the most important thing are the people first and then the hotel, a little that can be done
simultaneously. But it's a big endeavor.
It's a beautiful place. And it's quiet and the people are nice and it's been kind of unspoiled in a certain way. Just that it's been one of those
places that's unique. You don't find places like this anymore as far as I know.
HARLOW: So, Barbuda's prime minister told "Time Magazine" this week, "we have no doubt that this is a result of global warming and sea level rise
and climate change".
The White House came out this week and said, when asked about this, that it would need to conduct "a trend analysis" to determine if there is a
connection. Any thoughts?
DE NIRO: Well, I think we all know the feeling from the White House. If they're not too in favor of the idea of global warming - and so, we have to
deal with that. People will deal with it because no matter what the White House wants to do, the world sees that there are changes.
[15:50:03] And we're not certainly helping it by ignoring it. We could - at the least are exacerbating the situation. And for the administration to
turn their back on is disgusting.
GORANI: Robert De Niro there on the Irma destruction. On St. Martin, the situation is also very desperate. Local officials are worried about
outbreaks of disease and many stranded islanders are trying to evacuate. Clarissa Ward is on the French side of St. Martin.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: From above, you can see the true scale of Irma's violent force. Roofs ripped off, trees
Down on the trash-clogged streets, locals work to rebuild their lives with little more than their bare hands. Time here has stood still since Irma
hit six days ago.
DAVID RICHARDSON, ST. MARTIN RESIDENT: Right now, at the moment, it is desperate. We're desperately in need of help.
WARD: President David Richardson says garbage is the biggest threat.
RICHARDSON: We used to see lot of rats. And now, we've seen a lot of the rats are now coming out and those carry some diseases that we don't really
need at this time now. And that's my biggest concern. If we get (INAUDIBLE) what are we going to do?
WARD (on-camera): Scenes like this are playing out across many parts of the Caribbean. House after house, street after street largely devastated
and the basic aid that is trickling in is just dwarfed by the scale of the need.
(voice-over): Christopher Terrasse says many feel abandoned.
CHRISTOPHER TERRASSE, ST. MARTIN RESIDENT: On top of a child, a wife who has cancer, she needs help and we don't get any help because we have no
roof, we have no water, we have no electricity, no medication. You know when you have a cancer, you know you're going to die. I wish to die better
WARD: Every day, desperate families are trying to get out. The military has set up a checkpoint where they wait just half a mile from the airport.
After more than 14 hours in the steamy heat, a lucky few are chosen to go, leaving behind the battered remains of Irma's wrath. Most have no idea
when they will be able to return.
Clarissa Ward, CNN on the French side of St. Martin.
GORANI: All right. I want to bring you some breaking news from the United Kingdom here. And even though, earlier in the day, UK government had not
raised its threat level from severe, it has just done so.
The UK has raised its threat level to critical from severe as we await an update from New Scotland Yard, London Metropolitan Police. We are
hopefully going to get more information on the investigation on whether or not they can reveal the name of a suspect and whether or not they believe
more than one person in fact is involved.
And we're seeing there, the Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley step up to the microphone to provide this update. The New Scotland Yard statement is
about to start now. Let's listen in.
MARK ROWLEY, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER, THE NEW SCOTLAND YARD: So, I'd like to update first of all on progress on the investigation. And we're making
excellent progress at the moment as we pursue our lines on inquiry to identify, to locate, and to arrest those responsible.
This is a very complex investigation, which is continuing at speed with the full weight of the London's counterterrorism and policing resources,
assisted by colleagues from around the country and by our intelligence agency partners, such as MI5.
We have hundreds of police officers trawling through CCTV footage. Detectives have spoken to tens of witnesses. And we've taken a large
number of calls to answer the hotline from members of the public.
And indeed, members of the public have sent in so far 77 images and videos they've taken at the scene, which they've sent into our PR website and
these are being assessed for evidential value.
Meanwhile, the improvised explosive device on the train, the remnants of it have now been made safe and they've been taken away for specialist
examination by forensic scientist.
The last thing I'd like to say about the investigation is that, during the course of the day, that there has been some uninformed speculation on
social media and from journalists, and I'd like to emphasize that that is unhelpful as we try to pursue this fast-moving investigation.
So, whilst we chased down the suspects, as the public would expect, we're strengthening our policing resources on the streets of London and indeed
across the country, whilst continuing the investigation.
[15:55:14] The public should expect to see extra police resources, armed and unarmed, on the streets, additional stop and search using
counterterrorism powers and potentially additional road checks on the roads.
To do this, it makes sense to maximize resources. And you'll have heard earlier from the prime minister that the threat level has been moved to
I have asked government ministers earlier on for permission to use members of the military to free up extra police resources.
What that gives me and my team is an extra 1,000 armed police officers, largely from Civil Nuclear Constabulary and Ministry of Defence Police, who
are freed up by having backfilled by soldiers, so I can use those thousand police officers across the country to provide extra reassurance.
So, what this means for the public over the weekend is that transport hubs and at events and in crowded places, they will see these extra resources,
then they'll be armed and unarmed, and they should also be reassured that some of the resources will be acting covert in their protection.
Finally, I would say to the public, please remain vigilant as you go about your weekend. And if you do see or hear about anything that concerns you,
please act on your instincts and don't hesitate to call us. Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What progress are you making in identifying the man who planted that bomb? Have you got the images? Have got a name?
ROWLEY: So, as I said, Daniel (ph), we're making through all those lines of inquiry. We're making really good progress on our investigation. I
know there is a clamor for more detail. You'll understand when we've got any covert components to what we're doing (INAUDIBLE).
We have to be open minded. Somebody has planted this improvised explosive device on the tube. We have to be open minded at this stage about him and
about potential associates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
ROWLEY: You'll be aware it's very routine in these sort of circumstances that IS will claim responsibility, whether or not they've had any previous
engagement with the individuals involved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you say anything about how sophisticated (INAUDIBLE)?
ROWLEY: I had a very detailed briefing on the devices, component and how it works. I think to put that information out publicly at the moment would
be inappropriate, given it's part of the investigation. Last question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a secondary device (INAUDIBLE)?
ROWLEY: We're only aware of one device. So, we now have the remnants of that device that's examined by our experts. We're chasing down suspects.
And I'll finish up by repeating my two points. Firstly, members of the public should be reassured by the extra officers they'll see on the streets
over the weekend in London and elsewhere.
And again, any information on anything, please don't hesitate to act on your suspicion and call the police. Thank you very much.
REPORTER: But do you believe there may be other devices?
GORANI: All right. You just heard there from the Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley. Quickly, I want to bring in Peter Neumann. I think we've got
a minute before we hand it over to the next program.
One of the interesting things he said is, while we chase the suspects. Pleural.
PETER NEUMANN, PROFESSOR OF SECURITY STUDIES, DEPARTMENT OF WAR STUDIES, KING'S COLLEGE LONDON: Yes. And he said that twice. And they clearly
must assume it could be more than one person. And whether they know it is not certain at all, but I think they are looking probably for more than one
GORANI: And someone asked him about claim of responsibility by ISIS. He said that's routine, it doesn't mean anything.
NEUMANN: Well, it usually does mean something, but the claim that comes from ISIS doesn't give us any insight or knowledge. There isn't any video
that shows the suspect. There isn't anything that is coming from ISIS that would give us more information necessarily than what we know from the
media. So, he's right. It doesn't necessarily prove it.
GORANI: Yes. Terrorist alert raised to critical. And it wasn't raised to critical after Manchester, a bombing that killed 22 people - a suicide
bombing that killed 22 people. What does that tell us?
NEWMAN: So, it does tell us that they are expecting more attacks. And that also then justifies the soldiers that we're going to see on the
street. They must be thinking there is more to come.
GORANI: Yes. Because what this is doing is, according to Mark Rowley, is it's freeing up resources, so that the police can be more present.
ROWLEY: Because you must imagine, there are probably hundreds of police officers now looking through video footage, taking calls from the public,
but also guarding critical installations. It allows them to replace some of the people at less important locations with soldiers who are not
necessarily interacting with the public.
GORANI: All right. Thanks so very much, Peter Neumann, for that analysis.