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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Murder Trial Underway; Bizarre Marriage; Caught on Camera. Aired 8- 9p ET
Aired September 18, 2017 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s kind of scary to think that the body was there for a little while. And then, of course, we all know about the explosion
of the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The explosion that occurred was intentional. Steven Pirus shot and killed Lee Anne.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lee Anne had been deceased as a result of being shot by her husband for weeks, if not months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was Thursday, November 13th, 7:00 AM. I was dropping Daniel off. That`s the last time I saw (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Under arrest, a young mom who allegedly ran off with her toddler son, stealing him away from the dad. Just hours after HLN`s
"The Hunt With John Walsh" airs the heartbreaking story, viewer tips help police break the case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the remains are of Holly Bobo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He made the comment about some long lines of, Let`s rape this bitch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said, I need you to help me bury this body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But in the end, he made the comment that it sure was fun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see Hetsel (ph) grab her arm to keep her from walking away as he grabs the marriage license.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was very forceful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She approached a hotel clerk near the Grand Canyon saying she had been kidnapped and they may be headed to Las Vegas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said marrying me will get him (ph) out of trouble.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She definitely was frightened to try and get away from him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wouldn`t let me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AREVA MARTIN, GUEST HOST: Good evening, everyone. I`m Areva Martin, in tonight for Ashleigh Banfield.
It sounds like a plot straight out of a Hollywood movie. A seemingly normal Wednesday afternoon in a quiet neighborhood in Wisconsin. That is,
until a house literally explodes, the home destroyed. Pictures from the scene barely do it justice.
And to put it into perspective, this is what the home looked like just a week ago. It`s a house many of us would love to call home. And this is
what`s left. But two days after that explosion, crews find a body in the burned-out rubble. She`s identified as 50-year-old Lee Anne Pirus. And
the thing is, Lee Anne didn`t die in that explosion. Lee Anne was shot. And police say she may have been dead for weeks, if not months.
Her husband of more than 20 years, Steven Pirus, is now behind bars, and police say he intentionally blew up that house to cover up her killing.
But the motive is anyone`s guess. Neighbors, some of whom are lucky to be alive themselves, are simply stunned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s kind of scary to think that the body was there for a little while before. The scary thing is my husband and dogs had just
left and passed by the scene 15 to 20 minutes before it happened. And to think that they could have been right there at the stop sign when it
impacted, people just living their lives, enjoying their yards, enjoying walks. You know, we have the Osage (ph) trail right next door, and you
know, a lot of people out walking. And you know, seems like a good place to live.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Joining me now, police chief Michael Koval. He is with the Madison, Wisconsin, Police Department. Also joining me, John Castro. He`s
a neighbor of Steven Pirus and he heard the explosion. Joseph Scott Morgan, certified death investigator and a professor of forensics at
Jacksonville State University. And on set is defense attorney Randy Zelin.
Let me start with you, Chief Koval. Why would a husband of more than 20 years want to kill his wife? It`s just puzzling to me, given that there
doesn`t appear to be any motive at this point.
CHIEF MICHAEL KOVAL, CITY OF MADISON POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Well, that`s absolutely right, Areva. We`re looking and examining what
kinds of motives would have been present. so as you can appreciate, we`re going to start with looking at the financials. We`re going to be looking
at the social media and network if there are perhaps extra-marital issues going on, love interests, or if this, in fact, was something just as
mercenary as wanting to recoup money and get away with a crime in the process of a homicide. So we`re not limiting ourselves to any one motive
until we delve further into the weeds.
MARTIN: But Chief, I noticed from looking at the press conference that you gave earlier, you say that this was an intentional act of violence on the
part of this husband. What is the evidence that has led you to believe that this was intentional?
KOVAL: Well, it pretty much came to a head as a result of the autopsy that was just conducted on Saturday, a six-hour autopsy. And I was notified by
the medical examiners that based on their findings, it was clear that this body had died as a result -- Lee Anne had died as the result of a gunshot
wound, and it had nothing to do with the explosion.
[20:05:10]In fact, they said that based on the mummification and decomposition level that it had probably been weeks, if not months,
beforehand and that the house explosion would have just been a subterfuge for it.
MARTIN: I want to get back to this motive because it`s puzzling to me. We know that a third to 40 percent of women who are killed by their husbands,
usually, it`s some kind of domestic violence involved and women are much more likely to be killed by a partner. Was there any evidence of domestic
violence in this relationship? Were there calls to the police department? Or is there any evidence to suggest that this was a violent marriage?
KOVAL: You know, that`s the sad sort of pervasive and insidious part about domestic violence is that a lot of times, it`s kept out of the realm of
what people would understand or that it`s sort of that dirty, dark secret that sort of eludes people. So no, we hadn`t been contacted there for
domestic violences or even anything that would resemble that. There have been some other sort of benign calls, but nothing as compelling as the
tell-tale signs of domestic violation.
MARTIN: And Chief, you mention possible financial motivation. Was there a large insurance policy or any kind of evidence to suggest that this was a
murder related to money or the husband`s attempt to recover some kind of money because, you know, of his wife? Was she wealthy? There just has to
be something that we`re going to learn from this investigation that`s not evident yet.
KOVAL: Correct. And I think we`re obviously drafting court orders to look at some of those accounting records that have been transacted both through
their both respective accounts, she also had some direct deposit accounts. We`re going to be looking to see whether he was still basically taking
money from those direct deposits, and if so, for how long after her death. So clearly, we still need to find out exactly when she was killed and if he
continued to financially profiteer off her death. So those are among a host of other things that we`re going to do some financial accounting with
with a specialist.
MARTIN: I want to talk to Joseph Morgan now. So Joseph, I know you`ve seen cases like this before. This fire -- we`re being told that it was
just a subterfuge because this woman was actually shot. Could the fire prevent police from actually finding out the cause of death?
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: It doesn`t sound like it. They`ve released, interestingly enough, quite a bit of information
when the ME released their initial causative factors involving this death. The mere fact that they stated that the victim had sustained a gunshot
wound and that the person had been deceased for an extended period of time -- as a forensic scientist, that tells me that they have a lot of
information to go with.
They`re able, obviously, to tell that this poor woman had been decomposing for an extended period of time. It also gives us an indication that,
potentially, potentially that the body was not necessarily immediately adjacent to where the primary blast took place.
My hat`s off to the police in this case because the debris field that they`re having to work with, them and the ATF, is quite extensive in this
tight little residential area. I think that after they go through this and they sift through this, they`re going to find quite a bit of evidence in
this case.
MARTIN: But Joseph, are you suggesting that she may have been killed someplace else, then her body placed in the house before the explosion?
MORGAN: No, not necessarily. But again, I don`t know that that`s going to be -- that that information is going to come about as much through the
study of this case forensically as it will come as a result of what line of questioning that the police take with this case.
If you`re talking about blood stains, as far as, like, carpeting, on the carpeting or on wooden surfaces and that sort of thing, I think that`s
going to be very, very difficult to ascertain.
But I`m interested in the ballistic evidence that they found. Are they going to be able to determine things like range of fire, like where was the
shooter relative to this poor woman when she was shot and the location of the actual gunshot wound. They`ve gone some distance here in specifically
stating that her cause of death is, in fact, a gunshot wound.
MARTIN: Now, John, you were a neighbor in this community. And we`ve seen photographs of the house before the explosion. This looks like a pretty
middle class neighborhood. This house looks like a beautiful house that any of us would want to live in. What did you hear?
[20:10:02]JOHN CASTRO, NEIGHBOR (via telephone): It was probably one of the loudest bangs I`ve ever heard in my life, if not the loudest. And then
the house, shortly after, my house just rattled. It felt like someone had just driven a car into my house.
MARTIN: Randy, this is going to be a really interesting prosecution. We know that the defendant has been charged. Steven Pirus has been
potentially going to be charged with first degree intentional homicide, arson and reckless endangerment because this explosion had the potential of
injuring the neighbors in this community.
What is going to be the possible defense if all of this evidence comes together and points to this man having killed his wife of 20 years?
RANDY ZELIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s just it. I`m sitting here listening, and it`s so unsettling. And you did a really phenomenal job
doing a defense closing argument. I`m listening to everyone. I don`t know the cause of death. We saw a gunshot wound. We don`t know when she died.
We don`t know where she died. We don`t know the cause of the explosion. We don`t have a murder weapon...
MARTIN: Well, wait a minute, Randy. Let me stop you. First of all, I didn`t do a defense closing argument.
ZELIN: I thought you did.
MARTIN: I did not do a defense closing argument. From the chief and from the investigation that has been done, everything looks like the husband
killed his wife of 20 years. You know prosecutors don`t bring cases, you know they don`t file charges unless there`s substantial evidence. So there
has to be evidence. And we`ll go back and we`ll talk to the chief some more about what is the evidence that convinces at least the police
department at this point to turn this over to the prosecutors to bring these very serious charges.
ZELIN: Well, let`s -- let`s...
MARTIN: So let`s assume the charges are filed.
ZELIN: OK, great. I mean, we know how easy that is.
MARTIN: What are you going to do to defend someone who potentially shot his wife and then tried to cover it up by blowing up the house, endangering
lives of neighbors in this community?
ZELIN: Because so far, we don`t know who did it. I have heard nothing. I`ve heard -- again, we`re going to first look for the financial records.
We`re going to first try to establish a motive. You usually do that first. You get your financial records. You determine your motive, and then you go
out and arrest someone. You don`t lock somebody up and then, Well, we`ll figure out whether or not we actually have the evidence after he`s already
locked up.
MARTIN: Well, let`s go back to Chief Koval. Chief, one thing that troubled me about this investigation is that, apparently, there was never a
missing persons report that was filed? No one called the police department to say that Lee Anne was missing, that she hadn`t shown up to her job, or
that she hadn`t been seen in this community? What are we to make of that?
KOVAL: Well, again, as is the right of anyone, she kept to herself. She was somewhat of a recluse, could operate as she did within the confines of
her home, chose not to necessarily be one of those charismatic figures that might otherwise be in a lot of neighborhoods. That is her prerogative.
That is her right. That might be a little nuanced, a little eccentric, but in and of itself, as I said earlier, we have never received a missing
persons report from her friends or from her husband or from anybody that was connected to her in any way.
MARTIN: Well, let me ask you this, Chief. Do we know if Lee Anne worked outside the home? Because I`m thinking if she had a job that she had to
report to on a daily basis and she didn`t show up for that job, her co- workers, her employer, someone would pick up the telephone and call the police department and make some kind of report that this woman is missing.
Has the investigation moved to that point yet?
KOVAL: No. But she had not actively been working, per se, outside of the home in the last couple of weeks. But what people are also forgetting is
that the forensics in and of itself, though compelling, also goes in tandem with the fact that we have him voluntarily cooperating with our detective.
And in the context of providing interviews, he admitted to shooting Lee Anne. He admitted to blowing up the house. So the fact of the matter
is...
MARTIN: Hold on a second, Chief Koval. So Randy is concerned that the investigation hasn`t unearthed any information that would support the
serious charges that are likely to be filed, but you just stated that the husband, Lee Anne`s husband, admitted during the investigation to shooting
his wife and to setting the house on fire?
KOVAL: Certainly. Well, making the house explode, exactly. We`ve gone, as is often the case with a soon-to-be criminal defendant that we`ve gone
from nondenial, noncommittal, don`t know nothing about nothing, to finally, when presented with the weight of what we had forensically and the evidence
and the medical examiner`s report, I think he inasmuch conceded and gave incriminating statements admitting his culpability.
[20:15:10]MARTIN: So we know, Chief Koval, at this stage in an investigation, police officers don`t reveal all of their cards.
KOVAL: Correct.
MARTIN: They don`t tell all of the information because you`ve go a case to prosecute. But Randy, I think you`re going to have a difficult time
because Chief Koval said that this potential defendant all but admitted to these very serious crimes.
ZELIN: Two things come to mind. First of all, one would have thought, with due respect to the chief, that would be the first thing that would
come out in terms of the evidence against this defendant, not at the end. And when you talk about "all but," that starts to sound a lot like maybe he
didn`t say anything. He didn`t react an appropriate way. That`s starting to sound a lot like interpretation as opposed to he gave a full confession
-- I did it, I`m glad I did it, and I`d do it again.
MARTIN: Well, we`re going to have to see how this plays out. Thank you, Chief, for joining us. We know this investigation will continue. Thank
you, John Castro, for weighing in on this.
Stick around, Joseph Scott Morgan and Randy Zelin. We`ll be right back.
Up next, we`re going to be talking about breaking news in the capture of Maria Cabrera, a mom on the run after kidnapping her 2-year-old. Police
quickly close in on her after "The Hunt" asked for help finding her just last night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:40]MARTIN: Breaking news tonight. A fugitive snagged after last night`s airing of "The Hunt With John Walsh," the FBI today capturing Maria
Gutierrez thousands of miles from her Pennsylvania home in Washington state thanks to two tips called in after the broadcast. Maria vanished with her
young son in the midst of a custody battle with the child`s father.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was living in Ventura, and that`s where I met Maria. We were both after divorces, and so we were both kind of lonely. I knew
she had three children. I`d always been a family-type person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m the oldest daughter of Maria. I was just ready to have a father figure. My mom would talk badly about Guy (ph). As the
years went on, she would do it more and more. And I was kind of surprised because he was awesome. We had so much fun together, so, so much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was just getting to a point where she seemed unhappy. We weren`t exactly planning on getting pregnant. Daniel was born
on a Saturday. When he came out, he was an absolutely gorgeous baby. If I said, I want to take him for a walk around the lake, I`m going to take him
for a little drive, it was always no. At that stage, I wasn`t going to marry her. I wanted her to move out of the house.
In June 2014, we went for a hearing in front of a judge, and he basically awarded me partial custody. It was Thursday, November 13th, 7:00 AM. I
was dropping Daniel off. That`s the last time I saw Daniel. We had an emergency court hearing with the judge. He gave me full custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guy Marcus (ph) contacted our police department to report that his ex-girlfriend, Maria Cabrera-Gutierrez, has left the area
with their son. So immediately, Daniel was entered as a missing person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Joining me now, Detective Sergeant Deron M. Manndel. He is with the Central Berks Regional Police Department. Also Calahan Walsh, the son
of John Walsh, a child advocate who is with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and defense attorney Randy Zelin remains on set
with me.
Wow, this is such a heartbreaking case for me. I`m a children`s rights advocate, so whenever is child is missing or taken from their family, it`s
just heartbreaking for me. I want to start with you, Calahan. Tell us what happened in this case.
CALAHAN WALSH, CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, it`s an unfortunate circumstance of a noncustodial parental abduction. We see these all the time at the National
Center for Missing and Exploited children. In fact, it makes up about 6 percent of our workload.
And in this case, there was a messy custody battle going on between the two parents, and the mother took off with the child. You know, in our legal
system, that`s not right. The father, you know, has all rights to be able to see this child. And it`s really unfortunate that she took matters into
her own hands, abducted the child, left, concealed the whereabouts of the child.
And luckily, we got a recovery. Not only did we get this capture on "The Hunt," the HLN viewers did it again, but we also recovered a missing child,
and that`s just amazing.
MARTIN: Yes, we have to thank the viewers who turned in to "The Hunt" and who called in these tips because it was because of the viewers that we were
able to find this family and to hopefully, reunite these kids with their fathers.
Calahan, I have to ask you -- it looks like according to the daughter, Maria`s daughter, that Maria started to -- her behavior changed. She was
exhibiting some very unusual behaviors. Do you think that Guy Marcus -- did he have any indication that she was going to run off with his son?
WALSH: I think he had some indication, but obviously, it shows that he didn`t know that she was going to take these drastic steps. And as you
said, her own daughter, to her admission, said that her mother`s state was deteriorating. She was compulsively picking at her scalp. She was writing
journals down about Guy Marcus destroying their family, talking to herself constantly.
This older sister was very worried about the welfare of her own brother, and it shows. And it`s a good thing that her and Guy still have a great
relationship, the oldest daughter, and was able to come together around such a tragic case and got a great recovery. So it`s a win all around.
[20:25:05]MARTIN: Now, Detective Manndel, you`ve been involved with this. You`ve had an opportunity to talk with Maria. When she was actually
captured, take us to that moment. What was her demeanor like?
DET. SGT. DERON MANNDEL, CENTRAL BERKS REGIONAL POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, actually, I haven`t gotten a chance to talk to her yet. She`s still out in
Washington. But I just received reports from the Pacific (ph) County sheriff`s office. And surprisingly to us, when she was taken into custody,
she admitted who she was right away. She didn`t try and use a fake name for them. And it went pretty easy. She actually made a statement to the
lieutenant out there that she knew this day would come and she was aware of the warrants that she had.
MARTIN: Were you shocked that she was found in the state of Washington? I know there was some indication that she might have been headed towards
Mexico, that`s where she`s from, and that she might have tried to actually leave the United States. So was there any surprise that she was actually
found in the state of Washington?
MANNDEL: Yes and no. Within the first month of this case, we had every reason to believe she was going to Mexico because that`s where she was
from. And when the case first led us to San Antonio, that city`s so close to the border, we thought that`s definitely where she`s going.
But from there, we found out she was last seen in the city of Austin in Texas, which is about two hours further north from San Antonio. So we were
just shy of catching her there. We were a couple days behind her. And that was where we lost her.
So as the years went by, we kind of figured that she could really be anywhere in the country. And I was kind of thinking she`s probably in some
small town somewhere in the United States, just living a simple life under the radar, so -- and that`s pretty much what happened.
MARTIN: Now, we know when Maria took off, her son was just 2 years old. Apparently, she made contact with a nephew in San Antonio. But did her
older children have any information about her whereabouts? Were they ever suspects?
MANNDEL: No. Her older daughter, as you saw in the show, had not had a very good relationship with her. She has another older daughter that`s in
Bakersfield, California, area and that daughter is also not very close to her, either. The two daughters just -- they always said she`s controlling.
She has some issues, and they weren`t close to her. So that`s pretty much it.
MARTIN: Now, this case is unusual because the judge gave Maria primary custody of her son because she was breastfeeding, but I guess the
conditions of that custody was eventually, the father, Guy Marcus, would share 50-50 custody and he had visitation rights. But the judge never
indicated that Maria wouldn`t have custody, so I`m still puzzled as to why she would feel the need to run off with her son, since from all
indications, she was going to be allowed to share custody with the son`s father.
MANNDEL: Yes, that`s true. I`m not exactly sure what happened there. When Guy first came to us, he said they had just had a court hearing prior
to her disappearing, and apparently, a statement was made by the judge, something like, You`re not going to like my result or my ruling. I`m not
exactly sure what happened there again. But all indications were that it wasn`t going to go in her favor. So I guess that`s what made her up and
leave.
Now, I don`t know what the conditions were. I`m sure she`ll still going to be allowed to see her kid, but as we saw in the show last night, she needed
to control every situation. So she probably didn`t even want Guy to have any rights to this child, which is sad. So that`s the only thing I can
think of as to why she did that. She just wanted the kids for herself and no one else.
MARTIN: I`ve got to ask you, Detective, how are these kids doing, particularly Daniel, who was 2 years old when he was separated from his
father. I know he`s 5 now. Is there any indication that he even has any memory of his dad?
MANNDEL: I`m not sure. The lieutenant out there in Washington said -- because I asked how they were when they got them in custody. They both
said they`re doing fine. They`re healthy. They were upset that their Mom got taken away. Daniel probably doesn`t know. I mean, he`s only 5. He
was 2, you know, when they left.
So I don`t know if he`s going to remember Guy. But you know, Guy was thrilled when he told him. He`s excited to go pick up his son. And
hopefully, Daniel`s still young enough that, you know, Daniel and Guy can rekindle and build a new relationship together.
The older boy, you know, he`s 15 now. He has a different father that wasn`t really involved in his life. So we`re trying to get Ivan`s (ph)
father contacted to get them reunited and see what happens there since Maria is now locked up.
MARTIN: Well, this is just a wonderful ending for what could have been a really tragic case. Again, thank you to John Walsh and "The Hunt." Thank
you to the viewers that called in to help us find these two little boys who were missing. Sergeant Darren Mandel (ph), thank you being with us. And
thank you, Callahan Walsh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
MARTIN: In Tennessee, the jury hears chilling details about the horrors of Holly Bobo`s death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY PHOENIX, FRIEND OF ZACHARY ADAMS: I couldn`t have picked a prettier bitch. I just -- right then it kind of clicked to me. I told him, I don`t
want to hear about it. In the end, he made a comment that it sure was fun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Beautiful young nursing student Holly Bobo was brutally raped and murdered in Tennessee back in 2011. Zachary Adams is now on trial for the
gruesome crime.
Shocking details emerging from the courtroom of what happened to Holly before her remains were found more than three years later.
And now in the second week of testimony, prosecutors call witnesses to the stand who claim they heard Zachary Adams talk about the rape and murder of
Holly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHOENIX: We were actually riding around. Whether or not we were looking for something to steal or just keeping our eyes open for something to get, I
don`t remember. But he made the comment about something along the line of, let`s rape this bitch.
And I looked at him. Of course, I was turning the radio up. I was trying to get him to go pick (INAUDIBLE) that I had stolen. I would turn the radio up
every time I talk and he would turn it down.
And he made that comment, and I just looked at him. And I said, well, what`s this got to do with what we`re trying to do right now? And I turned
the radio back up. He turned it back down. And just kept talking.
It was like I couldn`t have picked a prettier bitch. I just -- and right then it kind of clicked to me. I told him, I don`t want to hear about it.
And he said something in between that, but in the end he made a comment that it sure was fun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did that shock you?
PHOENIX: Did it shock me? No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there any doubt in your mind, Mr. Phoenix, that he was talking about Holly Bobo?
PHOENIX: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he said that?
PHOENIX: None.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He showed me a knife that he had and I kind of intimidated by it since he was intimidating me with it. I asked him to
check it out and how much he would pay for it. He told me that if I knew what that knife had done, I`d probably be afraid to hold the knife. Does it
involve what I think it is? And he just smiled. I gave it back to him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were you talking about? The Holly Bobo case?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Joining me now, Jesse Weber. He is a host with lawnewz.com. Also back with me is defense attorney Randy Zelin, and certified death
investigator Joseph Scott Morgan.
Jesse, this was an explosive day in court. I know the prosecution was wrapping up its case, and there was just a myriad of witnesses who over and
over and over again said that Zachary Adams admitted that he killed Holly Bobo.
Some of the testimony, I couldn`t have picked a prettier bitch? Her head got chopped off? Tell my brother he better keep his mouth shut or I`ll put
him in the ground besides her? What are we to make of this shocking testimony?
JESSE WEBER, HOST, LAWNEWZ.COM: This has been a very interesting trial, to say the least. If you are on the jury and you believe what all of these
inmates, these drug abusers say, this was a terrible day for the defense. Now the defense will try to put on their case.
This is a whole case where there has been no forensic or physical evidence attached to Zach Adams. It`s been all testimony. And it`s been strong,
compelling testimony. Testimony that you couldn`t make up. The details are so gruesome.
We saw that last week with Jason Autry. So it`s now an uphill battle for the defense. They haven`t done a great job so far to try and seek justice
for their client.
MARTIN: We know these comments, these derogatory comments that these witnesses said Zachary Adams made. We`re talking about 20-year-old innocent
nursing student Holly Bobo, who is kidnapped, who is raped, who is murdered, who`s body was left, you know, for years, not discovered.
And I`m concerned -- I`m concerned that some of those jurors are going to say, we don`t have any DNA evidence. We don`t have any fingerprints. We
don`t have any blood evidence. We don`t have the things that we`ve been watching on television that link a murderer to a murder.
And they may feel that these witnesses, although it`s been cumulative testimony, they have severe credibility problems. I know, Randy, if he`s
the lawyer in this case, he`s going to go after those witnesses. He`s going to say, look, they`re drug dealers, they have prison records.
WEBER: Yes.
MARTIN: They can`t be --
RANDY ZELIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Suddenly they`re credible.
[20:40:00] It`s amazing, people who would you otherwise not believe if they said it is oh, about 20 to 9 on Monday night, you wouldn`t believe them.
You`d go out and check. Now suddenly they`re credible. How convenient. He told me, he killed Holly Bobo. Who even speaks like that? But suddenly
they`re credible.
MARTIN: I want to go to Joseph Morgan. So, we know there`s not DNA evidence in this case. But there was a gun that was discovered, and we have the
skull. Is there any way that you can use forensics at this point to tie the two together? Can we use forensics to say that this was the actual gun that
was used to shoot Holly Bobo?
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: Well, even the medical examiner in their earlier testimony stated that that was not -- he didn`t
say definitively. He said it would be consistent with a 32-caliber handgun. This is another thing we need to keep in mind. Time in forensics is the
worst enemy.
We`ve got people talking about dismemberment. We`re taking heads off. We got knives involved. This sort of thing. And so we have no soft tissue to
work from after this period of time. So, the only thing that you`re left with essentially is bone. And to be able to connect back as far as the DNA
fingerprint, if you will, it`s going to be very, very difficult.
Certainly, a fingerprint that`s left behind by friction ridges on a finger is virtually going to be non-consistent. You`ve got a lot of evidence that
just over time -- time itself has compromised the evidence. It is going to be very, very difficult to link this back over all this time. That`s why
testimony in this case is so very important.
MARTIN: And again, I just want everyone to be clear. We`re talking about an innocent young lady who went missing in 2011 and whose body wasn`t found
until 2014. Now, Jesse, you`ve been following this. I know the defense hasn`t disclosed their witness list as of yet, but what should we expect
the defense to do in this case to try to exonerate Zachary Adams?
WEBER: What they missed in cross-examination, they need to bring witnesses on that can discredit the testimony of key witnesses specifically Jason
Autry, who was the prosecution`s state witness. Put on witnesses that can discredit everything that he said because that was the key piece of
testimony.
We also talked about that whether or not John Dylan Adams, who is the brother of Zachary Adams, will he testify? Now, he has been said that he`ll
plead the fifth and maybe not testify. We`ll have to see. But if I`m the defense, you have to go in attack mode. Otherwise, your client is going to
be found guilty.
MARTIN: They started the testimony this afternoon. Who was the first witness that the defense called?
WEBER: Shayne Austin`s mother. For everybody who is following this case, Shayne Austin was arrested in connection with this crime. He was working
out an immunity deal, then he killed himself. You`ve heard earlier testimony that was intimately involved in this case.
One witness said that he was stalking Holly Bobo days before her disappearance. So we heard testimony from his mother. Whether or not the
jury found it compelling, we`ll have to see.
MARTIN: Again, Zachary Adams apparently told anybody that would listen that he killed Holly Bobo. We don`t know what the jurors are going to ultimately
find, but this is a case we`re going to continue to follow. Innocent girl, missing, raped, murdered. We hope her family finds justice.
Jesse Weber and Joseph Scott Morgan, thank you so much for joining us.
A California woman is kidnapped and forced to marry her ex-boyfriend. But this time what happened in Vegas didn`t stay in Vegas. We`ll tell you about
her daring escape.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Shocking new surveillance video shows the scary moments for a woman who claimed she was kidnapped and forced to marry her accused abductor in a
ceremony inside a Vegas wedding chapel. Take a look at what Inside Edition`s Victoria Recano uncovered.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VICTORIA RECANO, TELEVISION PERSONALITY, INSIDE EDITION (voice-over): Look closely. Police say you`re watching a woman who has been kidnapped. She`s
at a wedding chapel and says she`s being forced to marry her abductor. Surveillance footage shows the pair casually stroll into the little neon
chapel in Las Vegas.
Joseph Hetzel kisses Virginia Paris on the cheek. He also puts his arm around her neck and holds her tight. But Virginia says that is no gesture
of love. It`s an act of intimidation. In this exclusive interview with "Inside Edition," Virginia tells me she feared Hetzel might kill her.
Did you think that you might die?
VIRGINIA PARIS, FORCED INTO MARRIAGE BY KIDNAPPER: I thought so, yes.
RECANO (voice-over): At one point, she tries to leave the chapel, but Hetzel blocks her and forces her back.
RECANO: Virginia says her four-day nightmare began when she was leaving work at a retirement home in Santa Barbara County, California, and a car
deliberately cut her off. Suddenly, the driver jumped into her car.
It was an acquaintance, Joseph Hetzel. He ordered her to head to Las Vegas. She had struck up a friendship with Hetzel two months earlier, but ended it
when she says he became obsessed with her.
PARIS: I asked him to stop. It was just horrible.
RECANO (voice-over): After the wedding ceremony, Hetzel allowed her to call her daughter, Jennifer, who knew immediately something was very wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She called to tell me don`t ever forget how much she loves us and just tell the girls and everyone I love them. And I was like,
mom, why are you talking like that?
RECANO (voice-over): Virginia says her nightmare ended here at the Railroad Pass Hotel and Casino, miles from the Las Vegas strip.
RECANO: But it was really here that you knew this was your chance?
PARIS: This was my chance because he let me come in. He gave me $100 to check into a room and this was my chance to get help.
[20:50:00] RECANO (voice-over): Surveillance footage shows Virginia checking into the hotel after the wedding. Hetzel sent her in alone because
he didn`t want to be caught on surveillance cameras in the hotel lobby. Here is the very moment she asks hotel clerk, Danielle Jacobsen, to help
her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is what`s going on. I need you to act like you`re checking me into a room, please. I`ve been abducted, taken against my will.
PARIS: Very thankful, very thankful that they helped me.
RECANO (voice-over): Surveillance cameras outside the hotel show Hetzel realizing the cops have arrived. He flees, and what does he do? He takes
the time to leave this ominous voice mail message with Virginia`s daughter.
JOSEPH HETZEL, ACCUSED OF KIDNAPPING (voice-over): This is Joseph. I was chased by the cops and I`ve taken pills so it will soon be over. By the
time the cops get me, I`ll be dead.
RECANO (voice-over); Hetzel was captured in Las Vegas before he could do any more harm. Now, Virginia Paris wants everyone to know that was no
wedding at the chapel. That was an abduction.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN: Tom Perumean is a reporter with KTAR News 92.3. He joins me from Phoenix. And defense attorney Randy Zelin is still with me on set. Tom, I
got to tell you, I`ve seen and heard lots of cases, but this is an unusual one to say the least. This woman is three-day ordeal of being kidnapped and
forced to marry her abductor? Tell me, what am I missing about this story?
TOM PERUMEAN, REPORTER, KTAR NEWS 92.3: Well, it`s a miracle this woman survived. I mean, if you read any of the back story on Joseph Hetzel, he is
an ex-convict. He has been convicted of possession of, making and using explosive devices with the intent to terrorize, felony vandalism, criminal
threats dating back to an incident involving an ex-girlfriend from 2004.
So this man has obviously -- he`s -- he shouldn`t be walking around. He should be locked up somewhere either in a very tight jail or a very tight
mental institution and taken a good look at.
I mean, this is an incredible story that this poor woman was able to escape and with her life. This just doesn`t happen in these kinds of cases.
MARTIN: Tom, I`m glad you brought up the extensive criminal background of her abductor because I know some of our viewers may be thinking why didn`t
she just run away. Apparently they stop at a Starbucks, they stopped at a hotel in Arizona.
So some people may be thinking she had ample opportunities to get away, but she didn`t. But I think his criminal background tells us a lot about how
scary this ordeal was.
PERUMEAN: Absolutely. This man is 62 inches tall, 100 some odd pounds, 190 pounds, if I`m correct. He`s clearly in physical control. Now, Ms. Paris
did make overture. She made an overture in Goodyear, Arizona. She told a barista at Starbucks, hey, I`ve been kidnapped. I`m a kidnap victim, get
the sheriffs out here, get some help.
And Hetzel apparently saw this, forced her out of the Starbucks and back into her car. She was able to throw the registration of her vehicle out the
window of the car. People saw this. The sheriffs saw this. They identified who she was. And that`s what really got the ball rolling that this woman
was in trouble.
This was already two days into the event. So, you know, like I said, there`s an entire day here where nobody knew where Virginia Paris was.
MARTIN: Tom, do we know if Virginia has been reunited with her family?
PERUMEAN: Yes. She is back in Santa Barbara County. I believe she lives in Lompoc. She works at a rest home in Santa Barbara. We do believe that she
is back with her family. As mentioned on the video piece, she is working to get that marriage that took place in Las Vegas annulled.
MARTIN: Just a really sad story. This woman only knew this abductor for a couple of months, and she ends up being taken from California to Arizona
and ultimately to Nevada. But hopefully, lots of people will learn from this story. A great ending to what could have been a really tragic story.
Thank you, Tom Perumean, for joining us and shedding light on this really tragic story. Again, a happy ending. Virginia is hopefully being reunited
with her family and hopefully this abductor will be brought to justice.
A California man has jumped in broad daylight as he walks across a parking lot. And its UPS employees to the rescue.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: We hear it all the time. You need to stay alert and be aware of your surroundings. Take case in point this guy. He was caught on camera
leaving a California bank and heading to the UPS store when he was jumped by two male suspects.
One of the guys was armed with a crowbar and both men went to work beating the victim and attempting to steal his backpack. And that`s when the
cavalry came in or more accurately, three UPS employees and a customer. They ran to his rescue and scared off the perps. Police are still searching
for the suspects. The victim thankfully didn`t sustain any serious injuries.
Randy Zelin, thank you so much for joining me. Tonight, Ashleigh Banfield will be back tomorrow. Straight ahead, "The Hunt with John Walsh" featuring
the search and capture of Maria Cabrera. Cabrera was on the run with her toddler son for almost three years. "The Hunt with John Walsh" begins right
now.
[21:00:00]
END
