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Wolf

Paranoia in West Wing, Trump Attorneys Gripe about Russia Probe in Public; What Iran Says Would Happen if U.S. Kills Nuclear Deal; South Korea: North in "Final Stage" of Intercontinental Missile; Trump's New Nickname for North Korea's Kim Jong-Un. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired September 18, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:31:07] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We are learning new details about paranoia in the West Wing of the White House coming from Special Counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation. According to the "New York Times," and I'm quoting now, "White House officials privately expressed fear that colleagues may be wearing a wire to surreptitiously record conversations for Mr. Mueller." On top of that, "The Times" reporter, Kenneth Vogel, posted this picture with a tweet, "Here's a photo of Ty Cobb and John Dowd casually and loudly discussing details of Russia investigation while I sat at the next table. Cobb is the lawyer brought in and to oversee the White House response to the Russia probe. Dowd is a high-profile washington lawyer hired by the president.

Let's bring in our national security analyst, Sean Turner, former director of communications for U.S. National Intelligence, and CNN justice correspondent, Jessica Schneider.

Jessica, they are openly discussing sensitive information outside a famous D.C. restaurant where anybody could be listening. And a "New York Times" reporter was sitting at the next table and could overhear this observation.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: These are two top White House attorneys. They are doing it out in the open, overheard by a "New York Times" reporter. The question is, does this potentially waive attorney-client privilege? One of the main things is you don't disclose this information. If it is disclosed to a third party, that information or the attorney-client privilege is waived. The question it, will Robert Mueller try to use this happenstance as a way to get in and get some of that information?

BLITZER: They are talking about the possibility that the special counsel, Sean, may have wired various officials in the White House to hear what they are saying in case they can provide evidence of wrong- doing on the part of the Trump officials.

SEAN TURNER, CNN NATIOAL SECURITY ANALYST: There is a palpable state of distrust on the colleagues, and you can't sustain this idea that the colleagues to your left and right might be distrusted. I worked under the Obama administration as chief of staff, and he has a strict White House. If you had issues or concerns with your colleagues, he had a policy to sit down and work them out. This environment of distrust, where your colleagues might be working to throw you under the bus, working with the special counsel, that's something this White House can't sustain.

BLITZER: I don't remember a time, Jessica, where there is paranoia that people are wired. The fact that there is such paranoia that people are worried about that speaks volumes.

SCHNEIDER: And talking about it in the open environment, in this loud way in an open environment. It talks to the conflict that the lawyers inside the White House might be having as well. Ty Cobb wants to be open and transparent, and hand over the documents readily to the special counsel. Don McGahn, of course, has maybe a different tact. He is all for cooperation, but he is not just the president's lawyer. He is counsel for the White House, the executive branch. If he hands this over, does it set a dangerous or bad precedent for investigations in other administrations or even this administration?

BLITZER: During the course of the conversation, at the restaurant, Ty Cobb, he reportedly said that the White House counsel, Dan McGahn, who was not at this luncheon, had a couple of documents locked in the safe. Presumably, they would like to have access to the documents.

[13:35:02] TURNER: If I'm working with Bob Mueller, that is the one part of the conversation I'm focused on. And when you think of who is at the table, you have Ty Cobb, Dowd, and McGahn at the White House, these are all lawyers trying to help Trump get through this. Why is it that one lawyer has documents locked in a safe that he is not sharing with other lawyers on the team? I want to know what's in that safe and what they reveal and if they are relevant.

BLITZER: Great questions. We will see where Robert Mueller goes from here.

Thanks very much.

Sean Turner, and Jessica Schneider, reporting.

As President Trump considers killing the nuclear deal with Iran, that country's president delivers a rather blistering response about what could happen if the U.S. made that move. A CNN exclusive interview without own Christiane Amanpour coming up.

He is in charge of a nuclear armed North Korea, but Kim Jong-Un got a nickname from President Trump involving an old Elton John song.

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BLITZER: The Iran nuclear deal is one of the biggest things on President Trump's agenda, one he described as the worst deal ever negotiated. As the United States looks to possibly try to dismantle the accord, Iran is warning of the consequences of that action.

Let's go to our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour. Christiane, you just had an exclusive interview with Iran's president,

Hasan Rouhani. Was his tone defiant against President Trump and the United States?

[13:39:57] CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It wasn't so much defiant as firm. What a difference a couple of years makes. Two years ago, I spoke to him, and he talked about how the tensions were decreasing and the people of Iran wanted a better relationship with the United States. They just signed this nuclear deal. And now they are watching the Trump administration decide whether or not to stay in it. This is what he said to me about if the U.S. should pull out.

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HASAN ROUHANI, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translation): Such an agreement would carry a high cost for the United States of America and I do not believe that Americans would be willing to pay such a high cost for something that will be useless for them. It will yield no results for the United States, but at the same time it will generally decrease and cut away and chip away at international trust for the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So there you have it. They do not want the U.S. to pull out.

They do point out that this is a multilateral deal that is signed by the big powers at the U.N. just behind me. They are also saying and everybody is saying that really this time with the North Korean problem, does the world need another nuclear problem? At the least the Iran deal, which they are in compliance with are signed off on the consistent compliance. It brackets one troubling country on a nuclear program and nobody wants to see an unleashed Iran go back to what the president was threatening, that if the U.S. pulls out of the deal, Iran can go back to enrichment, and the status quo ante before the deal was signed two years ago -- Wolf?

BLITZER: At the top of the hour, at the photo-op between President Trump and visiting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and the president made it clear he is not necessarily ruling out ripping up the agreement. Listen to what he said when a reporter said what about the deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you plan to stay in the Iranian nuclear deal?

TRUMP: You will see very soon. You will be seeing very soon. We are talking about it constantly. Constantly. We are talking about plans constantly. We'll see.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: You heard him say you will be seeing very soon. He didn't say what he was going to do. The Trump administration so far twice testified on Iran being in compliance. They have to certify again by October 15th, but he is leaving all options on the table.

AMANPOUR: Yes, indeed, but he is also leaving ambiguity in his sentence, you'll see, you'll see. He indicated that nuclear related sanctions should be imposed on Iran. He did not. That's important. Had he done that, Iran could be justified under the terms of the deal to do what it was doing and the world said, no, you must not do this, to go back to what it was doing before the deal was signed. He didn't do that. And now in October, there is going to be another milestone and that is certifying Iran's compliance. It's important to know that the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, has always been against this deal. Ad others like the Saudis and others in the region think there should be a better deal. They will push President Trump to do more pressure on Iran in areas outside the nuclear area, Iran's activities in the region and the missile program and the like. We have seen so far that actions speak louder than words. This administration is still in the Iran nuclear deal -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Rex Tillerson twice testified that Iran is in compliance.

Quickly, anything meetings President Rouhani might have with U.S. officials. I suspect he will not meet with the president.

AMANPOUR: He is not going to meet with the president. We understand his foreign minister will not have a separate meeting with the secretary of state. There may be a group meeting between all the countries as you signed the deal, but other than that, no bilaterals. What a difference a year makes. Last year, everybody was on a first- name basis at the U.N. There was a real feeling that the tension was decreasing. Now, as the Iranian president said, tensions are ratcheting up again between the two countries. The Iranian president said, look, you have a problem with North Korea. If you come out of this deal, what message does that send North Korea. If they were to sit around the table and sign the deal, the next administration would pull out of it. This is not just about Iran, but everything else, multilateralism and nuclear security as well.

[13:45:11] BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour's interview with the president of Iran air in the next hour on a program on CNN international.

Christiane, thanks very much for that report. Christiane Amanpour, at the United Nations.

Coming up, South Korea says Pyongyang is now claiming it is in the final stage of developing an intercontinental ballistic missile. How will President Trump address the growing threat from Kim Jong-Un in his first address to world leaders at the United Nations tomorrow morning? We will discuss when we come back.

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[13:50:06] BLITZER: South Korea's defense ministry saying today that North Korea seems to be entering the final stage of developing an intercontinental ballistic missile. The U.S. is issuing this warning to Pyongyang.

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NIKKI HALEY, U.S. AMBASSASDOR TO THE U.N.: I think we all know if North Korea keeps on with this reckless behavior, if the United States has to defend itself or defend its allies in any way, North Korea will be destroyed. And we all know that. And none of us want that. None of us want war.

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BLITZER: North Korea's expected to dominate many of the discussions that world leaders will be having at the United Nations this week.

Let's discuss all that's going on. I am joined by Balbina Hwang, a former senior advisor at the State Department, a visiting professor at Georgetown University in Washington, and retired Air Force colonel and CNN military analyst, Cedric Leighton.

Thanks to both of you for joining us.

I should say Balbina Hwang, not Wang.

Balbina, what do you think the president has to say when he addresses the U.N. General Assembly as far as North Korea is concerned?

BALBINA HWANG, VISITING PROFESSOR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY & FORMER ADVISOR, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: The most important thing is to send reassurances to our allies, South Korea and Japan, and other allies around the world that continue to be extremely insecure by North Korea's actions.

BLITZER: Like what kind of assurances do you think he needs? Does he need to be specific in his address?

HWANT: Yes. We have to remember that the alliances are essentially what have been deterring North Korea for well over 60 years from actually precipitating some sort of action that has spread into war.

BLITZER: The president tweeted about all of this in this tweet. Let me read to you, he called Kim Jong-Un, the North Korean leader, Rocket Man. His security adviser general, H.R. McMaster, was asked about that and he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. H.R. MCMASTER, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: That's a new thing maybe for the president, but it reminds me of a cover of "The Economist" a few years ago, portraying him as Rocket Man. But that's where the rockets are coming from, rockets that we ought to not laugh too much about because they do represent a grave threat to anyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He said, at the outset, it is a global problem.

Cedric, what do you think?

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Rocket Man is obviously an on interesting designation for a leader of another country and it could be taken a wrong way. But for President Trump's base, they see this as a perfect descriptor for someone like Kim Jong-Un. And it's opening up an interesting dynamic because it is putting this kind of international diplomacy at the forefront now of domestic politics.

BLITZER: Leaders of North Korea, as you know, like to be called Dear Leader, Rocket Man, not so much. How will this play in Pyongyang?

HWANG: Well, it basically points out that the tweets are not the best form of communicating official position. And it's a great nickname for him. We don't know if Kim Jong-Un will like it or not. But that's actually not the point. I think the more important point is that the North Korean threat right now is about far more than just its missiles and, in fact, it's also about North Korea's human right abuses and also about the fact that North Korea threatens South Korea with conventional weapons and other chemical and biological and cyber weapons.

BLITZER: So when you hear General McMaster and other officials say, yes, there still is a military option. They don't want to use a military option. They want to avoid a military option, but there is a military option. What do you say?

LEIGHTON: I agree with that. That is true, Wolf. The problem is all military options are attractive options in terms of either casualties or the types of efforts that we would have to engage in in order to actually make an option like that work effectively. It would require a great deal of preparation. It would require a congruence between the South Korean allies and the Japanese allies that we have as well as also working with China and Russia and they might not want to be worked with in this particular case and that will be the tough thing for anybody to deal with in this situation.

BLITZER: Cedric and Balbina, thanks to both of you very much for joining us.

Finally, this note, 20 years ago today, CNN founder, Ted Turner, made an astonishing announcement. He was giving $1 billion to support the United Nations and its causes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED TURNER, FOUNDER, CNN: I got my statement and it said January 1st, I was worth $2,200 million. In August, I was worth $3,200 million. So all I'm giving away is my nine-month earnings, and it's not even a full year's worth. Who cares?

(LAUGHTER)

It's going to go to help give inoculations to kids through the programs in the United Nations and refugees and people with hurricanes that knocked down their houses and the poorest people and the ones who need the help the most.

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[13:55:15] BLITZER: Ted Turner calls his billion-dollar gift, and I'm quoting now, "The best investment I've ever made."

As world leaders gather at the United Nations, he issued another statement saying this, quote, "I made a gift at some time when some questioned the value of international engagement and the United Nations. Questions that some are raising again today. The U.N.," he continued, "is a vital importance and represents everyone everywhere.

Ted Turner, a truly amazing man. Founder of CNN. And hired me here 27 years ago.

Ted Turner, thanks for everything you do.

And just in to CNN, another story we're following. Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein ripping President Trump for his tweet showing an image of himself hitting Hillary Clinton with a golf ball. Why she's telling him to, quote, "grow up." Much more right after this.

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