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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Disturbing Discovery; Urgent Search. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 19, 2017 - 20:0 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST (voice-over): He made a tearful plea to help find his pregnant girlfriend.
TYLER TESSIER, CHARGED WITH MURDER: If somebody has her, we just want to know she`s OK. We just want her back.
BANFIELD: But it was all a set-up beneath the watchful gaze of police, who say he was the killer.
TESSIER: I pray that`s she`s safe and she comes back. That`s all I care about right now.
BANFIELD: Charged with murder, now he`s begging for something else, his freedom as he spends his birthday behind bars, bail denied.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An absolutely innocent victim, senseless -- senseless killing.
BANFIELD: And authorities grapple with one murder charge or two for the death of that unborn baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It defies description, the awfulness and the horror that we have been put through on this.
BANFIELD: in Georgia, a family devastated, their daughter vanishes while house-sitting for Mom and Dad, bizarre evidence left behind. Now, weeks
later, her car turns up miles from home and out of gas. Did someone lie to the police while they were searching for Jenna (ph)?
A serial killer obsession and a mom`s brutal murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has an extremely violent temper.
BANFIELD: Did a young man kill his own mother to copy the crimes of John Wayne Gacy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
BANFIELD: It took months before they found her buried beneath the porch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They (INAUDIBLE)
BANFIELD: But is that enough to pin the crime on the kid?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what led to the death of Susan Mayo (ph).
BANFIELD: Outrage tonight. A delicate newborn baby just hours old, manhandled and humiliated by hospital workers. To make matters worse, this
was a naval hospital. Have the offenders been fired? Have they even been charged?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Hi, everybody. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE. Thank you for being here tonight.
Shakespeare might have just said it best, you know, when he talked about people who protest too much. And the police have been using that as
investigative tool, oh for the last 400 years now, and it is a really good one. And yet we still get some real doozies that stand out, like Tyler
Tessier, that fellow in Maryland who begged and pleaded for us to help him find his missing pregnant Teacher of the Year girlfriend, only to find out
that police believe it was him who actually killed her, buried her in a shallow grave.
They set that whole press conference up so that they could watch him at work, watch the signs and the signals and the red flags. And if you missed
his Oscar-worthy performance, well, here you go, and you`re welcome.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TESSIER: Laura, if you`re listening, there are so many people, so many people that miss you. We`re just looking. We`re praying that you`re safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Yes, it`s really something to see all that, isn`t it, because look what`s going on behind him. Focus on the cops in the background here.
They`re watching him, his every movement, all of his so-called despair. You can only wonder what`s going through the minds of the cops, huh, as
they catch him in their press conference trap, watching to see what he`s going to say, and then, of course, watching to see what he does, given all
they know about the crime.
Today, we know more about what Tessier is facing and charges he may not be facing since Laura wasn`t the only victim in this murder. Her 4-month-old
fetus also died and for a while, it was touch and go as to whether he`d be slapped with a second murder charge for all of this. And the answer is --
good question. They still aren`t sure. It turns out there`s a lot of tricky law that they need to wade through before they can make that kind of
a charge stick.
Kylie Khan joins us now live with the newest part of this case against Tyler Tessier. She`s a reporter with CNN affiliate WDVM, and she`s been
covering the story since the beginning. Kylie, first and foremost, before I get to the tricky matter of that second murder charge, whether it will or
won`t stick, he spent his birthday behind bars, no bail. Is he likely to get bail in this case?
KYLIE KHAN, WDVM (via telephone): You know, Ashleigh, the judge seems pretty confident in giving him no bail because of the seriousness of this
charge. I mean, it was a murder charge. I don`t think he`ll get bail.
BANFIELD: Don`t think he will. So any word on what happened on his birthday? Did anybody visit? Has anyone been visiting him?
KHAN: I haven`t heard anything about that, actually, no.
BANFIELD: I mean, not since Susan Smith, you know, gave her tearful plea for us to find her baby boys and we only found out later that she`d rolled
the into the water, have we seen something like this. He grabbed the hand of her mom, her grieving mother who wants to find her, and her father
beside him, after the hand grab, reached out and actually put his hand over on that man`s shoulder. Those parents knew all along what was up. They
were in on the press conference and we`re told that they did everything they could just to keep it together.
[20:05:09]Watch what the mom does with her left hand. She has to steady it on Tessier`s other hand. And it`s remarkable. And cameraman just kind of
keeps focusing in, zooming in on Tyler. Looking back at this, the body language is so uncomfortable. And then looking back at it, the language
Tessier uses is uncomfortable, too. Let`s just play this moment where he`s talking about you know, somebody has her, somebody`s got my girlfriend and
we just really want to get her back. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TESSIER: If somebody has her, please understand that you`ve taken away a huge person in so many people`s lives, friends and family and students that
she has. I know what she means to me, I know what she means to everybody else, and we just want to know she`s OK. We just want her back. Thank
you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Kylie, it`s just -- it`s phenomenal acting if what the police say is true, that that`s their guy, that they knew all along, and that he
had buried her three feet under, in a shallow grave, before that news conference. Is there any more to the idea that he`s going to have some
kind of a cohesive defense? Is there any word as to what he`s going to claim, you know, a plea being entered? Anything more from this man?
KHAN: I haven`t spoken with him or with his attorney. But the last I heard from state`s attorney John McCarthy (ph) was that it would be
unlikely that he would get another charge for the death of the baby.
BANFIELD: And why do they feel that? Why is that? We hear in so many other cases when a pregnant woman is murdered, there are two murder
charges, for her the victim and then for fetus, the second victim. Why not here?
KHAN: You know, he was hesitant to go beyond that, but you know, my guess is that she was only four months along. And I`m assuming that it probably
wasn`t far enough along to be claimed as another death.
BANFIELD: and is that the issue? Because there is some consideration that 24 to 26 weeks is what is considered a fully viable fetus, meaning that
fetus could have survived being born, but not a mom being murdered.
KHAN: I think this is an issue that`s going to continue to be going on for a while. I don`t think anything has been decided yet. But the last I
heard was it would be unlikely that he would get that charge.
BANFIELD: So one first degree murder charge is tough enough to beat a rap on, especially when you have the cops sort of luring you into a lair. And
here`s a moment where, you know, Kylie, you and your colleagues, you nailed it by asking a guy you had no idea at the time was under this much
suspicion -- I mean, everyone is a person of interest close to a family, but this much suspicion, and yet the press took it upon themselves to ask
the critical question about a last conversation that he may have had with Laura. Have a look at how this played out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Do you remember any of your last conversations with her?
TESSIER: I`m sorry?
QUESTION: Any of your last conversations with her?
TESSIER: I don`t know where she is. That`s all. I don`t know. Like, I don`t -- I know we`re all trying to do everything we can to find her. And
I just pray that -- I pray that she`s safe, she comes back. That`s all I care about right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So Kylie, we`ve learned, you know, some more things since the press conference that are deeply disturbing about what happened before
Laura Wallen went missing, and it turns out there is this other woman that, apparently, Tyler Tessier had a fiancee, a fiancee despite the fact that
his pregnant girlfriend Laura did not know there was a fiancee. She knew there was relationship at some point. She knew he`d been living in another
place on occasion. But as far as fiancee goes, Laura wasn`t necessarily completely aware of that.
And she sent a text to this fiancee on August 28th. And it was only a few days later Laura disappeared. But the text she sent, unbeknownst to a
fiancee but to another woman, said, It`s important that some things are cleaned up. And I would imagine that if you were in my position, you`d
want some answers, as well.
[20:10:00]By no means is this an attempt at confrontation, just looking for an explanation, woman to woman. She ends that texting conversation.
There are some other texts, Kylie, that are very critical in this investigation, as well, and these are texts that Laura apparently sent to
her sister. But the police believe it wasn`t Laura at all on the keyboard, that it was, in fact, Tyler Tessier sending texts from the teacher of the
year, Laura Wallen`s, phone, saying this, I`m, like, 95 percent sure Tyler is not the father. I`m probably going to lose my job over this. I`m going
to try and get a hold of Antoine (ph) -- who`s an ex-boyfriend of hers. Tyler is never going to forgive me. If he tries to call you, please tell
him he`s a great guy because I know I really hurt his feelings.
Kylie, there`s some talk about those texts happening about an hour after a big fight that happened in the morning, somewhere around 8:00 o`clock in
the morning on the day she disappeared. So there`s a big fight between Tyler and Laura, 8:00 o`clock in the morning. Sometime an hour later,
around 9:00 o`clock in the morning, those texts are going out. What do you make of that?
KHAN: Well, police believe that Tyler was the one who sent those texts. And if you notice the spelling of Antoine (ph), he spells it A-N-T-W-A-N,
which is not the correct spelling. And when police interviewed him, they asked him how to spell Antoine, and that`s the same way he spelled it. So
that`s one of the reasons they believed that he sent those text messages and that I believe that he actually admitted to sending those later on.
BANFIELD: So he`s admitted sending these texts. He caught in a trap of misspelling Antoine`s name. And what kind of a guy has a missing mother of
his child, of his unborn child, and says, you know, Tyler`s never going to forgive me. If he tries to call you, tell him he`s a great guy. I mean,
either he`s just a really horrible, filthy, moral you know, free person, or he`s a murderer or maybe he`s both, but I think definitely there`s a morals
issue if he`s sending a text like that while she`s missing.
I want to play for you, if I can, something where Laura`s dad talked to the press about the monster that he feels Tyler Tessier is. And let`s not
forget he was forced to do that news conference. He knew what was -- he wasn`t forced, he agreed. But I mean, emotionally, he was forced to go
through that news conference and play it straight, and you know, play loving dad or loving dad-to-be, you know -- you know, father-in-law to be
because apparently, Tyler had asked for his daughter`s hand in marriage when found out about the baby. So you can imagine how Mark Wallen, Laura`s
dad, felt after the arrest. And here`s what he told the press.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK WALLEN, LAURA`S FATHER: The press conference that we did the other day was a press conference to get out a picture and the name of the baby
daddy. And it was all we could do to be seen as a unified family with him. He is a monster, and he is a liar. And it is -- it was absolutely the
hardest thing that my wife could do would be to sit next to him and hold his hand. And she had to hold his hand with two hands because she was
shaking so badly and -- but we did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: That poor father also learned that there were apparently two other girlfriends. Not sure if the fiancee counts as one of them, but at
least two other women in this man`s life as Laura Wallen was decomposing. Just imagine that for a moment.
He actually talked about the notion this man had asked for his daughter`s hand in marriage, and then actually confronted him to ask if there was
something going on with another woman. And here`s what -- here`s what this father, Mark Wallen, had to say about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLEN: He -- he lied to my face when I asked him about the other -- the other girl, and said, I haven`t seen her in two years, I haven`t talked to
her in two years. And I believed him. I believed him. He`s a very believable guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Want to bring in Eric Guster now, defense attorney. So the first thing we thought of is that there`s a woman four months pregnant,
murdered, in a shallow grave, a man in custody, no bond, facing one murder charge. And in so many jurisdictions, that will easily become two.
They`re saying probably not here. Why is that?
ERIC GUSTER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Key word, four months pregnant, because that means the fetus is between 16 and 20 weeks. And for it to be a viable
fetus in the eyes of the law in most jurisdictions, it`s around 24 to 26 weeks.
[20:15:02]So that`s a charge that a prosecution will probably hold off on because what the prosecution does not want to do is put too many charges in
front of a jury and confuse them or appear to be overreaching because if they do too much, then some jurors may rebel, say, Well, you knew that this
charge wouldn`t stick, so why did you put it on there? I may not convict him of anything just because you put too many charges on there. So the
prosecution has to be very careful with presenting their case, exactly what they want to charge him, and make sure they get something to make it stick
because they have a lot on the line.
BANFIELD: And let`s be clear. Life as a max is life, whether it`s two lives or one life. Life is the max that he could get for the killing of
Laura alone. You stick with us for a bit. I have a lot more to ask you about. Eric Guster`s going to stay with us. My thank you to Kylie Khan
from our affiliate, as well, for that.
Their hospital called the video outrageous and unacceptable.
You probably are thinking what I`m thinking. That can`t be -- it can`t be a staff member holding a baby like a doll or a puppet and making them dance
to Fifty Cent or flipping them the bird, a tiny new baby, posting it on social media. At the same time, the workers thought it was hilarious, and
there`s a good bet they`re not laughing now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:34]BANFIELD: When it comes to social media, it seems pretty much anything goes, right? You know, we`ve seen it all by now, every
inappropriate, illegal, mind-bending form of bad behavior possible. And now there`s this.
Yes, that is what you think you`re seeing, a newborn baby thought to be just hours old. Child`s mom is probably still in the delivery room, maybe
just in the process or just, you know, being sent to a recovery room somewhere else in that hospital. And that hospital is a naval hospital,
Jacksonville, Florida. The images in the videos were uploaded to Snapchat, then they were shared on Facebook, the naval corpsmen involved making that
delicate new born dance to a rap song by 50 Cent.
And there`s more, a photo that was posted showing one of those women flipping a bird to a newborn baby, caption reading, How I currently feel
about these mini-Satans. Well, now they`re paying a price, but the damage is done. Hospital says this, We are aware of a video, photo posted on
line. It`s outrageous, unacceptable, incredibly unprofessional and can not be tolerated.
Want to get right to Roger Henderson. He`s the news director at WBOB radio in Jacksonville, Florida. Roger, you know, things go viral for a reason,
because they stun people. Either they delight them or they are appalling. And this is without question the latter. What do we think is going to
happen? What do we know is going to happen to those young women who were part of this?
ROGER HENDERSON, WBOB (via telephone): Well, good evening, Ashleigh, and as all of us are in this community and I`m sure people around the country
are shocked and stunned by the actions of these young ladies. I try to sometimes give a little consideration to their youth. These girls may have
been just out of high school, joined the military, but still, the actions are outrageous. And there is a price to be paid I`m sure. Because these
young ladies were in the U.S. military, they will come under the Uniform Code of Military Justice and probably face court-martial, which would be a
federal crime if they are convicted, and looks like they`re going to be.
BANFIELD: So here`s the reason that, you know, while we show this video, we`ve blurred not only, obviously, the face of the newborn but the face of
the naval corpsman who is doing this. They`re not naming them yet. And you know, Roger, typically, people want to get out in front of this.
Hospital, Navy both of them would want to just say, Look, this is them not us. But they`re not naming them. They say the investigation is still
going. It seems odd to me. It just seems as though you`d want to sort of cut and run on this one. Why are they not naming them?
HENDERSON: I don`t know for sure, but I do understand that the U.S. military, the way they handle problems like this, a lot different than it`s
handled in the civilian world. I believe that may be a big part as to why these girls are not being named at this time. Chances are, they`re going
to be eventually, but at this time, you know, we don`t know who they are other than they worked at NAS (ph) Jacks (ph) and -- a major military
hospital. We`re a huge military city in Jacksonville. Roughly 20,000 U.S. military personnel and their families depend on that hospital for medical
care.
BANFIELD: So let me just read what the hospital posted on Facebook about this. I just gave a snippet of it, you know, in the intro to this segment,
Roger, but more full-throated here. "We are aware of the video, photo posted on line. It`s outrageous, unacceptable, incredibly unprofessional,
cannot be tolerated. We have identified the staff members involved. They have been removed from patient care, and they will be handled by the legal
system and military justice. We`ve notified the patients` parents."
Do we have any idea at this point, Roger, who these parents are? I mean, I`m guessing Mom is probably still in the hospital at a very tender state.
HENDERSON: Yes, very likely, she is still in the hospital. But again, because the parents of the child are also in the military, they`re probably
obligated to fall under the rules and guidelines that the military commanders ask them to abide by. And that`s why they`re not going to media
at this time, as well, would be my best educated guess.
BANFIELD: So I always like to keep track of, you know, how -- how viral things are, Roger. And at last count, there were over 100,000 shares of
this video and these photos.
[20:25:00:02]Any idea if -- well, I guess a couple things. Any idea if there are more by now? Any idea if they`re being taken down? Some of them
obviously identify the worker in the background. We`re not doing that because there`s no official charge right now. That`s our policy. I think
the little baby`s face is scratched out with that pink-like ink in the posts. But any idea sort of where this is going right now and how many
more people are going to be watching this?
HENDERSON: Well, I`m sure it`s probably going to mushroom to millions that will eventually see this very disturbing video on line. And even if it`s
taken down, it`s very difficult to put the cat back in the bag, so to speak, after it goes public because what ends up happening is that people
make copies and then copies made of copies. So there`s no bringing this back.
BANFIELD: Roger, hold on for one second. I want to bring in Eric Guster. He`s a defense attorney. I know you look at things differently. I know
that you always give the benefit of the doubt. It`s on video, what this woman is doing. I don`t know if she has a baby of her own, but I can tell
you, having had two and having held those hours-old babies for the first time, you`re terrified. You don`t want that head to move at all. You
certainly wouldn`t hold them up by those brand-new arms. I look at it like reckless endangerment. I look at it as child abuse. I`m -- I`m terrified
that that hurts a little tiny baby who`s got no muscles yet. Is that the way the law will look at that?
GUSTER: The law will look at it as reckless endangerment. But you have all type of privacy issues. You have -- so many young people look at the
Internet as, This is my private thing, and they don`t think about everyone will see this. This is a violation of HIPAA violation -- this is a HIPAA
violation. This is also a violation of the code of conduct for the military. And these are hospital workers, which they are on much higher
level than all of us because they`re dealing with persons with their health issues, their very personal things that are going on, and you have to have
a level of privacy that a regular citizen does not have.
And this video is disturbing, and I hope that the parents don`t come after these two and try to hurt them because these are military people, and you
know, they are -- they are trained to hurt people. And this is the kind of thing, if someone does something to your child and puts it out for millions
of other people to see in an embarrassing fashion, this will make you do something.
BANFIELD: Well, I sure hope they get the justice that`s deserved here.
And I will say this, they do look young to me, as well. I don`t know if they have babies. But let me say one thing. You are in a hell of an
emotional state when you`re in that hospital and you`ve delivered a baby.
And young ladies, if you are in a hospital at some point in the future delivering a baby, I want you to remember what you did here. And I want
you to think about what`s going on in that -- you know, in that nursery where your baby is being looked after by others. And I want you to think
about what you were doing to someone else`s brand-new hours-old baby. Punishment enough? Maybe, but I hope that the UMCJ does something, as
well.
Roger Henderson, thank you. Eric Guster, stay put, if you will. Got some more for you. In fact, some people just have a fascination, I guess you
can call it, with serial killers. Most, of course, would never, ever, ever copy those crimes, but in one Alabama town, investigators say this man
killed his own mom, possibly to be just like his hero, John Wayne Gacy. And they go on to say he disposed of her body just like the infamous serial
killer would have done.
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, PRIMETIME JUSTICE SHOW HOST: So there are few names that have the same chilling effect when you hear them as Dahmer and Bundy and
Manson and Gacy. That last one, John Wayne Gacy, he sidelined as a birthday clown while at the same time raping and murdering dozens of men and boys
and burying them under his home, a particular form of evil.
And police say Nathaniel Sebastian looked up to him, so you can imagine that they wanted to ask Nathaniel a couple of questions right, when his mom
mysteriously went missing back in June.
And when a cadaver dog hit on a few things at the house, you can imagine they start digging for clues and they did. Unless your Nathaniel Sebastian,
police say the Alabama man actually did look up to Gacy, and it makes the story all the more eerie.
Maybe (INAUDIBLE) I don`t know. Maybe it was the fact that (INAUDIBLE) getting a little too close to that turned front porch that they say
something made Nathaniel blurt out the unthinkable, that mom was, quote, "buried under the porch."
And that is where they found Susan Mayo in a 55-gallon drum, three feet under the porch of her very own home, the one that, you know, she shared
with her son, Nathaniel, until of course, she didn`t.
And you know that guy earlier on in this program with the crocodile tears arrested for murdering his girlfriend just days after begging us all to
help find her? Well, here is that grieving son, Nathaniel, just before saying mom was under the porch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NATHANIEL SEBASTIAN, ACCUSED OF KILLING MOM: Horribly depressed, you know. I mean, I got these texts, you know, trying to claim murder when they
should be looking for my mother, you know. This is all the three-ring circus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I want to check in with the sheriff on this story. Sam Cochran with Mobile County, Alabama Sheriff`s Office. Sheriff, this is just a
disturbing story on so many fronts. Is there a lot more to the evidence that you have right now on Nathaniel Sebastian that we don`t know about
yet?
SAM COCHRAN, SHERIFF, MOBILE COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE (via telephone): Well, I believe that, you know, we`ve got a dysfunctional family, the mother-son
relationship, and this individual, the suspect, Sebastian, was arrogant to our investigators and played both sides, tried to play the news media. Of
course, I guess, we in turn played him a little bit through the news media, but we`re persistent.
[20:35:00] Our detectives dug on it. And as they got into it, found out that he idolized John Wayne Gacy and had posting on his Facebook that were
quotations of Gacy.
And after that, searched the premises twice, and he was arrogant each time and criticized the detectives about not doing the job correctly. The
detectives picked up on the fact that he was extremely nervous. The only time he was nervous was when they were on his front porch. They send in the
officers and they reviewed the evidence.
The evidence I have from the class dogs -- the cadaver dogs that have searched the area, and they realized that they had hit on the leaves across
the street in a bag and hit on a storage shed, but not around the trailer.
They thought -- one of the detectives, who was not even born yet, did not know who Gacy was. He started googling and learning about him. They got
their heads together and said hey, let`s go search under that -- under that porch.
When they went out there with a search warrant, he was cocky as usual. He watched what they were doing. But the minute they started taking the
latticework down, went under the porch, got (INAUDIBLE). They came back and he said, OK, you got me, I shot her in the head and he later gave --
BANFIELD: Wow! He gave -- he gave that up, sheriff? Sheriff, he gave it up right away? I shot her in the head?
COCHRAN (via telephone): He gave it up. Once they said we`ve got this barrel under there. And he said, you got me, I shot her in the head. In
some of the interviews, he acted as if he wanted to criticize their abilities to investigate, as if he was trying to give them leads along the
way and make them better detectives or something.
But in hindsight, they realized he was trying to throw them off many, many ways because it took a couple of months. So, distractions by him leading
them in different directions, but all along they felt like he was the number one suspect and of course they were correct.
BANFIELD: Sheriff, I`m watching the video of him being arrested, patted down by one of the deputies and put in the back of the cruiser. I`m always
looking to find out if those statements can be used later on in a prosecution, especially in a death penalty state, as what he`s facing for
this death. Did he know --
COCHRAN (via telephone): Yes.
BANFIELD: -- that he had the right to remain silent when he said that? Or at any point, did he -- you know, was he in handcuffs, did somebody say
don`t move? Or was he just freely throwing that out there from porch, OK, you got me, I shot her in the head?
COCHRAN (via telephone): That was spontaneous reaction. While they`re on the scene, they have said, look, you have to sit down and we are going to
watch you (INAUDIBLE) while we search your property again. We got the search warrant. You have to sit here and not interfere with the search.
And then you could see him getting nervous when they started taking the latticework down around the porch and under the porch was a cleaned out
sand and the rest of the yard was not as cleaned out. That`s one of the things that made them focus on it.
Even though had been there before with dogs, but they again spoke with the members of the class foundation with the dogs, and the dogs are surface
smellers, I guess, and said they may not smell in a barrel.
Of course the land was covered up with barrel. He even mentioned that he had sold a barrel on the day that the mother went missing, just little
things like that were laced throughout some of his conversations.
BANFIELD: Sheriff, this video of the -- oh, God, the poor folks that were tasked with having to dig this barrel up from under the porch -- you know,
I`ve read some accounts. I think that the video of the particular account I`ve read when they had to open the barrel, it was particularly horrific
for those investigators. They were I think visibly nauseated and had to back away and cover their noses.
I`m wondering if he did something to throw off the cadaver dogs. A guy who admires, you know, a John Wayne Gacy-type, may have done his research.
There`s a lot, you know, on cable television and dramatic series where bodies are dissolved in liquids or acids. Did he do anything like that to
compromise the investigation in any way?
COCHRAN (via telephone): The detectives have uncovered some searches where he was looking at making a coffin and coffin out of barrels. There`s
research that he did. We believe we can show internet searches. He did invest some time into it. And yes, the detectives really went through a lot
as you can imagine.
I believe she was killed on June the 5th, that`s the first day she went missing. She was a very reliable person at her job. She was a housekeeper
at a very prominent hotel, never missed a day`s work. She went missing on June 5th and they discovered the body on September the 6th. So, you got --
BANFIELD: The statement you just said that he investigated on the internet making coffins out of barrels. Did he go further? Did he dissolve her
remains? Meaning, is there enough left of his mother, of Susan Mayo, for a medical examiner to give a determinant cause of death that matches with
what he spontaneously confessed to you?
COCHRAN (via telephone): Yes. Certainly more than enough. I mean, it was decayed remains,
[20:40:00] but there`s more than enough to prove the cause of death. And of course with his admissions and spontaneous admissions and quite frankly a
confession thereafter, kind of like, well, I helped train you all or something. He was very cocky with his interviews once he was caught, matter
of fact. And so we believe it`s a good case. He`ll be put away as he deserves.
BANFIELD: Is it true that he left her body on the floor of the home for several days in the condition that it was after he allegedly shot her in
the head?
COCHRAN (via telephone): He made certain admissions that after he had killed her, he would took a nap and got up, and still was upset with her
and would just beat her up even after she was dead because he was still mad at her. Spoke harshly against her even after she was dead. He was very spun
up and very hateful towards her.
BANFIELD: And then there`s another disturbing elements and that is Susan Mayo, the victim here, her mother, Doris Clark, correct me if I`m wrong in
any of these links, but there is also an arrest in this case, Doris Clark, victim`s mom, basically the accused`s grandmother, she has been arrested
for helping her son to avoid detection by you? Can you give me some details on what exactly you say she did?
COCHRAN (via telephone): She was coaxing him and interfering in ways that she could to try to prevent the investigation going forward. And working
with another witness, trying to shut that witness`s testimony down to keep that witness from being involved and just quite frankly interfering with
the witnesses and the investigation.
And of course, that led to her arrest. We believe she certainly knew and was aware of the murder. We don`t have any evidence to say that she
participated or knew about it in advance, but she knew after the fact and was trying to protect the grandson.
BANFIELD: Dear, God, what you`re saying is that she knew her grandson murdered her own daughter.
COCHRAN (via telephone): Her own daughter.
BANFIELD: And buried her own daughter in a 55-gallon drum under her own daughter`s porch and helped the perpetrator, helped her grandson after
this? You`re truly saying that`s what happened?
COCHRAN (via telephone): Yes, that`s what we`re alleging. We are certainly are.
BANFIELD: It`s just astounding. It`s unfathomable. There is one other element too. I mean, it`s almost like this story just won`t stop yielding.
You have to tell me how much of this is accurate and maybe shed a little color on this. When Nathaniel Sebastian was brought in, we were told that
he was hiding a -- I guess you call it a homemade handcuff key in his mouth. Is this true?
COCHRAN (via telephone): Yes, that`s true. He was charged with prison contraband. It was a makeshift handcuff key that he had in his mouth that
the personnel discovered when they were booking him into the jail.
BANFIELD: So the moment he`s arrested like these pictures I`m seeing from Mobile County Sheriff`s Office of him being patted down, put in the
cruiser, taken off for processing, he`s got the handcuff key in his mouth at that moment?
COCHRAN (via telephone): Well, we did not know when he put it in there, if he maintained it in there for a long period of time while they were there.
We don`t know when it went in there, we just know when it came out.
BANFIELD: But we know that he had to have it in his possession because he didn`t get it from the back of the cruiser, right?
COCHRAN (via telephone): Yes.
BANFIELD: I mean, he must to have it on (INAUDIBLE) somewhere.
COCHRAN (via telephone): No, it would not have been there. Maybe he anticipated, but he was never a nervous-type individual. He was very
confident and sure of himself all except when they found the body and the one previous time according to the detective when they interviewed him on
the front porch.
That`s when they knew something was wrong. He would criticize them about their abilities and I felt like he was trying to throw them off about, you
know, go cut the floor up inside the house or go something else but never anything on the porch. That`s when they started figuring it out.
BANFIELD: He may start realizing that being cocky doesn`t get you anything but more time and in your case, in your state, it can get you a death
sentence. Sheriff Sam Cochran, thanks so much for being -- I`m just astounded at this case and I sure appreciate you helping us sort through
these details. I look forward to speaking to you another time, sheriff. Thank you. Unbelievable. There you have it.
And then there is this, a young woman house-sitting for mom and dad just simply vanishes into thin air. And for weeks, no sign of Jenna Gelderen.
That is until her car was found. Abandoned, out of gas, miles from home. Jenna`s parents say
[20:45:00] she would never run off without a word and they`re going to join me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: There is a feeling I hope you never experience. When you walk into a home that is in disarray and the T.V. is on, key items are missing,
and a key person is missing. Your throat tightens, panic sets in, and typically that`s when 911 gets a call.
That`s what happened when Jenna Van Gelderen`s brother discovered that Jenna was that there in her parents` home. Her car was also missing. She
has been house-sitting for her parents in Atlanta this summer and was supposed to be meeting a friend the night that she went missing. But all
that was left of that house was phone charger and her makeup
[20:50:00] and her shoes. Things that her family said she would never leave behind. And now nearly a month since she vanished, police have found that
car. It was abandoned seven miles away. It was dry as a bone, out of gas. But is it a clue that could actually help to find Jenna?
I want to begin with Tina Douglas, an anchor/reporter for News Radio 106.7 in Atlanta. Tina, what else do we know about the case?
TINA DOUGLAS, ANCHOR/REPORTER, NEWSRADIO 106.7: Well, we do know that Jenna at some point according to what police say had a boyfriend and maybe that -
- they had broken up that night. The friend said she may have been very upset about the breakup and that she had texted her friend to tell her what
had happened. And the fried, who lives in South Carolina, was en route to Atlanta, I assume to comfort her or to be with her after this experience.
BANFIELD: So this -- I mean, obviously whenever I hear that, a boyfriend, a breakup right before disappearance, I immediately think that`s got to be
the focus of the investigation. But the police are saying strange things. They are saying that that boyfriend told them -- and I`ll quote the police
report, advised this officer that the reason behind him no longer wanting to associate with her because he had recently found out that she had been
selling her body for money.
That also kind of sounds like someone who is trying to maybe come up with an excuse as to why he wouldn`t want to be around her anymore. But then the
police said Jenna`s brother also said something that corroborated that.
They said Jenna`s brother also advised that Jenna had been in some trouble over the past year, hanging with wrong people and making poor choices. He
also advised that he was aware of the prostitution but said that Jenna was taking career counseling classes to better her life.
Do we feel at all, Tina, that the police are looking at this differently from as they would, you know, a typical missing person case with no kind of
connection like that?
DOUGLAS: Possibly because of those, you know, extenuating factors. But, she is also a grown woman, 25 years old, was living on her own. Sometimes
police are reluctant to, you know, consider this a missing person because they are grown and they may have just decided to go stay with a friend, go
out of town.
But from what we understand, her family says she is in constant contact with them. And that`s why they are very alarmed about this. It`s been a
month now. So, a person doesn`t normally go missing this long without contacting their family unless there was some kind of tension between the
family, and we haven`t heard that at all.
But, you know, you have to be concerned now because of the time that`s lapsed and the fact that her car has been found and she is nowhere to be
found.
BANFIELD: So, I want to bring in Jenna`s parents, Roseanne Glick and Leon Van Gelderen. Have either of the two of you -- and Leon, I`ll begin with
you. Have either of the two of you been updated on anything in this case that looks optimistic? Like that car being found. Did it yield any clues as
to where your daughter is?
LEON VAN GELDEREN, FATHER OF JENNA VAN GELDEREN: Unfortunately we don`t know at this point. We are waiting to hear from the police as to what they
found in the car.
BANFIELD: And do you suspect that there`s anything to what these police reports are saying, what this boyfriend who broke up with her that night is
saying, that she had been doing things that he didn`t feel was appropriate for their relationship, that her brother reported to the police that she
had been making bad choices. Is this factoring into the investigation?
GELDEREN: I don`t think it is factoring in. The police chief assures us that they`re working diligently on the case. As far as the statements made
by the boyfriend, we had never talked to him and we have no way of knowing any of the facts that he`s talking about.
BANFIELD: We got a picture up with Jenna. She was at class of 2016, a recent graduate. As I understand, Jenna was mildly autistic as well. Is
that a problem or was she high-functioning?
ROSEANNE GLICK, MOTHER OF JENNA VAN GELDEREN: She is high-functioning. She graduated from Gwinnett Tech, looking towards getting a job as
administrative assistant. She was working with an organization to help her find a job. Her autism stands in the way in a different way. She comes
across like you and me when you see her. However, she`s quite vulnerable to people. She sometimes does not read social cues. She is a target for
predators.
BANFIELD: And, Roseanne, I know you have a Facebook page up. Is it yielding any information? Are you soliciting tips from people on the Facebook page?
[20:55:00] GLICK: We have gotten a number of people contacting us. At this point, I would say that the majority of people are sending their best to
us. They`re concerned about us. They are concerned about Jenna.
BANFIELD: Leon and Roseanne, I hope the best for you. I hope that you get those clues up and I hope that you`re able to find out more information
especially since the car has been found. Perhaps it will lead to something. And hopefully we can meet at different time with better news. I appreciate
you being here tonight. Thank you so much.
VAN GELDEREN: Thank you.
GLICK: Thank you.
BANFIELD: We`re back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: My great thanks to Eric Guster for joining tonight. Thank you, Eric.
ERIC GUSTER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thank you.
BANFIELD: And thank you, everyone, for watching. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. We`ll see you back here tomorrow night at 8:00. In the meantime, stay
tuned, "Forensic Files" is coming up next.
[21:00:00]
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