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Trump Unveils Details of Sweeping New Tax Plan; Inside the Voter Manipulation Machine; Microsoft CEO Says Execs Must Stand Up on Social Issues; South Africans Protest Corruption;

Aired September 27, 2017 - 16:00   ET


[16:00:00] DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- allow to fully write-off -- listen to this -- the cost of equipment in the year they buy

it. That is big. And that's instead of having to take deductions and deduct the cost over a long period of time. Now, that's called incentive.

That's called incentive. This will be tremendously important to help American businesses afford the heavy industrial machinery and other capital

investments they need to grow big and grow strong.

Joining us today is John Gannon the owner of a custom wood fencing and deck construction company in Indianapolis. John is the father of nine children.

And recently celebrated his 35th wedding anniversary. Congratulations, John. And john is in the fencing company as you heard. And I'm just

thinking, I have to mention this, you know, we have a fence around the White House. And they want to build a new fence.

And I figured, you know, I'm pretty good at construction, I figured, I don't know, maybe a million, maybe a million and a half. And this has been

taking place over a long period of time. Previous administrations. So, I said how much is the fence you are talking around the White House? Sir,

the fence will cost approximately $50 million. I said what? I kid you not. And we have thousands of things like that. Thousands. We are going

to get it all down. But think of that $50 million? Now I assume it's a strong fence. OK.

So, john, do you think you could do it slightly less than 50 million? I think you can take 49 off right now and have plenty of profit. Right?

Right, John? It's crazy. It's crazy. Never understand it, but we are working on it. John says that a tax cut like we are proposing will make

his business more competitive, allowing him to expand, hire more workers, and raise wages for his current employees. Right, John?

Also with us is Aaron Williams, a father of two, who works in the field of information technology. Where is Aaron? Hello, Aaron. Hi. It's a good

field. Aaron has seen the disaster effects of high -- just literally high corporate tax rates, right up close and personal, as more and more high-

tech jobs are shipped overseas. You've been watching it, Aaron, right, all over. Like millions of other Americans, Aaron wants to bring those jobs

back to the United States.

We are going to reduce the tax rate on American businesses so they can keep the jobs in America, Aaron. Create jobs in America, compete for workers in

America, and raise wages right here in America. You are going to be in a much different position. OK? Tremendous incentives.

We want more products proudly stamped with those four beautiful words, "made in the USA," right. Made in the USA.

Finally, our framework encourages American companies to bring back the trillions and trillions of dollars in wealth that's parked overseas. Our

current tax system -- trillions. And by the way, for years I've been hearing it's 2.5 trillion. So, I've been hearing this for about five years

so I assume it's much more, right. But Democrats want to do it and Republicans want to do it. For years who doesn't want to do it? But they

can't do it because it's so restrictive and taxes are so ridiculous so they can't do it.

So, the money stays in other countries and invested in other countries and we want to bring it back. But think about it, it's one of the things

Democrats want it and Republicans want it. So, they both want it, and yet for years they haven't been able to do it. Now we are doing it. We're

doing things.

[16:05:00] You know, it's one thing when we want a health care and they want a health care and there is a dispute. But here's something everyone

wants and they can't do it. So, you can tell you there's a broken system in D.C. But we're getting it fixed. I think rather rapidly. You will be

seen that over the next few months.

Our current tax system makes us one of the few developed nations in the world to punish our companies when they bring wealth earned overseas back

into our country. We are punishing them for bringing the money back in. As a result, corporations have parked many trillions of dollars in foreign

countries. And many have incorporated abroad in order to avoid our punitive tax system all together. And some companies actually leave our

country because they have so much money overseas, so much, it's an incredible amount, that they move the company to get their money. We are

going to let them bring the money back home.

Our framework will stop punishing companies for keeping their headquarters in the United States. We are punishing companies under our codes for being

in the United States. We will impose a onetime low tax on returning money that is already offshore so that it can be brought back home to America,

where it belongs, and where it can be put to work, and work, and work.

The framework I've just described represents a once in a generation opportunity to reduce taxes, rebuild our economy, and restore America's

competitive edge finally. And I have to say, just before coming here, we released some of the details of the tax and the tax reform and the tax

cuts, and it has really received tremendous, tremendous reviews. And if Senator Donnelly doesn't approve it, because you know, he's on the other

side, we will come here, we will campaign against him like you wouldn't believe.

I think they are going to approve it. I think, actually, we'll have numerous Democrats come across. Because it's the right thing to do. These

reforms will be a dramatic change from a failed tax system that encourages American businesses to ship jobs to foreign countries that have much lower

tax rates. That's what we can't do. Our competitors have much lower tax rates. But no longer.

My administration strongly rejects this off-shoring model. And we have embraced the new model. It's called the American model. Under the

American model, we are reducing burdens in our businesses as long as they do business in our country. That's what we want. We want them to do

business in our country. Not to leave our country, like a number of firms from Indiana, some made some great promises to me, but those promises are

only being partially kept, because they are incentivized to leave. But now they're going to be incentivized to stay. If that doesn't work then will

get even tougher than that. OK.

We want our companies to and grow in America and to raise wages for American workers and to help rebuild American cities and towns. That is

how we will all succeed together and grow together, as one team, one people, and one American family. We want it to happen here.

Tax reform has not historically been a partisan issue, and it does not have to be a partisan issue today. I really believe we are going to have

numerous Democrats come over and sign, because it's the right thing to do. I believe that, it's the right thing to do, and I know many of them. And

they are telling me it is the right thing to do. President Reagan's tax cuts were passed with significant bipartisan majorities at a time when

there was a Democrat majority in the House and a Democrat S, Tip O'Neill.

[16:10:00] Before that, Democrat President John F. Kennedy championed tax cuts that surged the economy and massively reduced unemployment. As

President Kennedy very wisely said, the single most important fiscal weapon available to strengthen the national economy is the federal tax policy.

The right kind of tax cut at the right time, at the right time, this is the right time, is the effective measure that this government could take to

spur our economy forward. That was President Kennedy.

My fellow Americans, this is the right tax cut. And this is the right time. Democrats and Republicans in Congress should come together finally

to deliver this giant win for the American people and begin middle-class miracle. It's called a middle-class miracle once again. It's also called

a miracle for our great companies, a miracle for the middle class, for the working person. I truly believe that many Democrats want to support our

plan, and with enough encouragement from the American people they will find the courage to do what is right for our great country.

But they'll only do it if you, the American people, make your voices heard. Only if you tell Congress to give us a tax code that puts American jobs

first. And that's what we're doing.

History has proven time and time again that there is no power on earth more awesome than the will of the American people. That is why today I am

asking all Americans, Republican, Democrat, independent, to join with me and with each other to demand tax reform that will truly, truly, truly make

America great again.

Call your congressman, call your senators, let them know you're watching. Let them know you're waiting. Tell them that today is the day for

decision, that now is the time to heal this self-inflicted economic wound. And that with their action, the future will belong to all of us. If you

demand it, the politicians will listen. They will answer. And they will act. And some day, many years from now, our children and our grandchildren

will remember this moment in history as the time when ordinary Americans took control of their destiny and chose a future of American patriotism,

prosperity, and pride. With your help, and your voice, we will bring back our jobs. We will bring back our wealth. And for every citizen across

this land, we will bring back our great American dreams. Thank you. God bless you. And God bless the United States of America. Thank you. Thank


RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST: The President of the United States, Donald Trump. It was a speech in Indianapolis where he has been -- I wouldn't say giving

many details. It was more rhetoric than details. But the outline of what he says will be his tax plan that is being announced by the Republican

Party. It's all part of the Trump administration's desire, goal, call it what you will, to get its agenda back on track. And in doing so, having

failed to make headway with healthcare, now takin the biggest priority for business and investors.

[16:15:00] Full tax reform is something that has not been done in the United States since the Reagan era. Which the president referred to -- he

also referred to John Kennedy with his tax cuts. And basically, saying this is hard, which is why it hast been done for so long.

So, what are the headlines? Lower U.S. business tax rate to 20 percent. The president says he originally wanted 15 percent, but that was just a

negotiating position. 20 percent is, in his words, the perfect number. It's currently at 35. And he says U.S. businesses will start winning

again, because they'll be able to repatriate. There'll be some sort of amnesty so they can repatriate foreign overseas income.

A change on how multinationals are taxed, so they'll bring the trillions of untaxed cash back from overseas. And let's just show you the OECD

comparisons right now. The U.S. is 35, 34.4 for France, Japan, the U.K., Germany, Canada and Ireland at the, bottom which is at 12.5 percent. But

that's slightly misleading, because there are many more deductions and far more complexities in the U.S. system than elsewhere. So, the effective tax

rate -- well Rana Foroohar, I'll be put right if I'm wrong. CNN's global analyst, also global business columnist at the FT, joins us from New York.

You can put me right in a moment. First of all, what stands out for you amongst the president's tax proposals? We haven't got the full details

yet. But from what you've seen.

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: Yes. Well, it was interesting. He spent two-thirds of his speech talking about individual

rates. But, Richard, as you know, the action is really in the corporate rates. This is what this plan is all about. It's about lowering that

corporate rate. To go to those numbers, it's true that the official U.S. tax rate I a lot higher than the OECD average. But as you know, the

average American big multinational pays about 19 percent. So really, we're talking about getting their legal rate down to what they're paying right

now. The big question is how do pay for it? And that's where the rub is. All those details still have to be worked out in Congress. One of the

interesting proposals that's been made is potentially rolling back some of those interest deductions on debt. And I think that would actually be a

good idea. That's going to be very contentious idea, though, because you're going to have different businesses duking it out about that kind

deduction versus any other.

QUEST: So clearly, everybody sort of agrees that there should be a reduction in corporate taxes of some shape or form. So, that's going to be

almost a done deal at some level. On t personal taxation front, cutting the top level of income tax down to 35 percent from 39.7 or whatever it is

now. Reducing some of the deductions. But how do you make up the shortfall?

FOROOHAR: Well, that's the big question. It's not at all clear you can make up this shortfall. Just on your point about the tax rates for wealthy

individuals. The other thing is you have to make sure that they don't take advantage of the 25 percent rate on small businesses. Those sort of pass-

through businesses, the hedge funds, et cetera, where wealthy individuals can actually pose their income as pass-through income and take advantage of

an even lower rate. That's problem number one. A lot of Republicans are going to have a hard time getting on board, because they don't see this as

being deficit-neutral. It not at all clear these cuts are going to pay for themselves.

QUEST: I have -- because I filed an extension, and yet --

FOROOHAR: Good for you.

QUEST: Don't you laugh, Ms. Foroohar. I filed an extension, and, of course, all that happens when you file an extension is you delay the

inevitable. So last -- the extension is coming to an end. And I was just going through the tax form last night. It is mind-bogglingly difficult.

The U.K.'s no better I have to say. Nobody comes to the table with clean hands. How realistic is it to make a simple tax form? Here's what I

earned. Here's what I spent. This is what I all.

FOROOHAR: I wish I could say it was realistic. It completely isn't. I mean, frankly, we're going to be lucky if we get tax reform done by the end

of the year. There is so much in fighting about the details, even amongst Republicans. Now that said, the need something to go back to their

electorate with for the midterm elections in the spring. They haven't done tax reform yet. They haven't done health care. They haven't done

infrastructure. So, there is going to be a tremendous amount of push/pull here on those details. You know, look out for several weeks of wrangling.

And industry wrangling, as well.

QUEST: Rana, thank you. I would buy you dinner, but I think I'm going to be writing --

FOROOHAR: That's a tax write-off, Richard.

QUEST: Maybe that could be the best investment of the day. Rana Foroohar, joining me. Rana, thank you.

Facebook has says it has closed tens of thousands of fake accounts in the run up to last weekend's German elections as part of its fight to protect

the electoral integrity of the system. The company admits misinformation did appear ahead of the vote, although new measures put in place after the

U.S. election made it harder to spread.

[16:20:06] CNN has learned more about the Facebook ads bought by Russians. Designed to influence the U.S. election last year. Sources are telling us

their main purpose was to deepen divisions and fuel a sense of chaos around the vote rather than to push a particular viewpoint.

Congress is just learning the extent of what happed with Facebook last year. And already the foreign fake news merchants are preparing for the

next one. We decided we had to understand who was doing it and where was it being done? So, we sent Isa Soares to Macedonia where voter

manipulation has become brazen cottage industry.


ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): tucked away in the hills of the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia is a small city of Veles. A

place many thousands of miles away from Washington, but whose voices echo across America.


TRUMP: Fighting the fake news. It's fake, phony.

CLINTON: False propaganda.

SOARES: In the builds up to the U.S. election, over 100 fake news websites were traced to the city. Today, fake news producers are still pumping out

false headlines. And in a shocking revelation, one reveals his next target, 2020.

(on camera): After about seven tabs or so that are open. Just in, Sarah Palin hospitalized. You can spot the stories that are really untrue.

Completely fake. Bill Clinton loses it in interview. Admits he's a murder. The stories on this particular website are fake. But other

websites are actually going further. They are mixing fact and fiction. That is a lie. And that's mixed in with news on the main political page.

And someone in the U.S. could potentially be influenced by that.

They make you want to click and they may you want to share. Website owners make their money from advertising. Platforms like Googles Ad Sense place

ads on their sites. Every page visit earns a fraction of a cent. As you can imagine, it quickly up with hundreds of thousands of clicks. Then to

drive traffic, fake news producers use Facebook. They post links to their stories in fan groups, often under fake profiles. All in the hope that

they will go viral. We spoke to Facebook and Google, who told us they are actively identifying and blocking accounts linked to fake news. On the

ground, producers are adapting. Although many are reluctant to speak openly about the industry, as we learned at a local cafe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you create Facebook profiles by yourself, Facebook is going to take it down in the next 24 hours.

SOARES: So how do you get around that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You go buy a real profile.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From kids. Then we change the names to a more American person.

SOARES: Real profiles exist.


SOARES: And they just change it to American names.


SOARES: Teenagers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- they've never had two euros before. You give them two euros, they give you the profile.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's all about t money.

SOARES (voice-over): Money is clearly the driving force here. And at the very top, there are people making a lot of it. We're driven out to the

city center and taken to an industrial part of town. All to protect the identity of a man who says he is one of the pioneers of fake news in Veles.

(on camera): It's the first office.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lights off. SOARES: Michel has arrived.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is my page.

SOARES: He's log into his website. And I've noticed that it's not your own name.


SOARES: It's someone else's profile.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That we are doing all of the time. We are faking -- fake numbers to have fake accounts. So, I can reach more and more people.

SOARES: Right, so here you're Jessica.

A lot of people commenting but also a lot of people sharing as we're talking -- a lot of people here liking your posts. What are you working on

now? What are you looking ahead to now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My primary goal is to prepare a site that I -- like I was having before to be ready for the next election in America.

SOARES: The U.S. election.


SOARES: How do you prepare for something like that? What are you looking at? I think we need to make a million-fan page. Like you see Jessica.

It's a fake. A lot of fake pages, a lot of fake numbers. Because I at the beginning you need to do that to make people like your page. I know how it

is to build a big a site. And I will do it again. I can tell you how much money I have earned in one day. Maybe it was around 2,000, $2500 at one


[16:25:03] For this kind of money to earn per day, you need to have maybe a fan page of more than half a million, million people.

SOARES: What makes a good clickable story, in your opinion?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you need to have high interest in a topic. What Donald Trump is doing is interesting for everyone. Even in my country

everything he said, it's worth and in flow. He's an interesting face. When you have million fans, if you post something, even if it's not

interesting, a lot of them will open it just to see what it is, and you will get money.

SOARES: You don't know if it's true or not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know and I don't care. Because the people are reading. Even if they open, I'm getting paid.

SOARES: Are you proud of what you've achieved?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 22 years, I was earning more than someone that will never earn in his entire life with the standard that we have in my country.

So, yes, I'm proud.

SOARES (voice-over): Later at the opening of a new bar in Veles, we see how Michel's generation spends its money. Here the alcohol is flowing and

the cash is quite literally, as local tradition dictates, being thrown around. Even the mayor of Veles has made an appearance. This is what the

digital gold rush looks like.

With the celebrations over, the mayor tells us what he thinks of this lucrative popup industry.

(on camera): Young fake media producers have put Veles on the world map -- on the world map. Are you proud of that?

SLAVACHO CHADIEV, MAYOR OF VELES (through translator): Well, frankly speaking, every town wants popularity. The most important this in this

situation is the law in this country was not broken.

SOARES: It may be legal, but is it, morally right?

CHADIEV: There is now morality in politics. In politics, everything is allowed.

SOARES: Is there a bigger puppet behind these guys who is influencing them to influence the U.S. election?

CHADIEV: I think it's more about the money. It's a way to make rally quick money. It's like the American Dream.

SOARES (voice-over): The allure of fast cash is attractive in a country where the average salary is little more than $400 month.

(on camera): That's how you spell his name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Serbian God language.

SOARES (voice-over): This man promises young Macedonians he can change their fortunes.

(on camera): Do they look up to him as a role model?

MIRKO CASELKOSKI, WETS COACH: Yes. Some of the students, definitely.

SOARES (voice-over): He teaches them how click bait websites.

(on camera): At what point, Mirko, did you start getting students knocking on your door or calling you and say, I want to create a fake website, teach


CASELKOSKI: The defining moment was when some of my students discovered that they can earn money writing about politics. It spread like fire. All

right now at least four of my students are millionaires.

SOARES: Four of them are millionaires.

CASELKOSKI: At least four. Many of them are new students. They invested a lot. They get some credits, some loans from the bank.

SOARES: wow.

CASELKOSKI: To grow their Facebook pages.


I almost understand why they're doing it. High unemployment. Very little opportunities here in the city. As long as people in the United States

keep engaging, keep clicking, keep sharing, keep liking these guys, will be in business.


QUEST: Fascinating. Isa Soares reporting there.

The Microsoft chief executive says in today's society, it's up to every man and woman in power to have a strong moral compass. And that raises a

simple question for the chief exec.


QUEST: Which leaders do you admire? Which political leaders do you admire? Notice I'm not asking you who you don't admire, which political

leaders have got that set of values, that leadership that you admire?

SATYA NADELLA, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER: You know, I mean, the person that's --

QUEST: That's alive and in power.


QUEST: That's alive and in power. I'm not having Winston Churchill or Nelson Mandela.

NADELLA: I was going to say Mandela --

QUEST: We want that one out.


QUEST: So who did Satya Nadella choose as a leader he admires? Also, the question of cybersecurity, after the break.


[16:31:54] QUEST: Hello. I'm Richard Quest. There's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment. You're going to hear from Microsoft chief executive,

Satya Nadella who tells me corporate leaders today cannot stay silent on controversial issues.

South Africans are taking to the streets. They are protesting the vortex of corruption. Before you hear any of that, this is CNN. And on this

network, the news always comes first.

The Trump administration says it's considering whether to waive shipping restrictions for Puerto Rico to allow aid to be delivered more quickly.

Millions of Puerto Ricans are still living without electricity, water or fuel, one week after hurricane Maria devastated the island.

President Trump's rolling out the blueprint for long-awaited Republican tax reform plan. It would cut corporate tax rates, abolish the inheritance tax

and lower the number of household tax bracket from 7 to 3. Tax reform was one of Mr. Trump's main campaign pledges last year.

The finance minister of Germany is stepping down to become speaker of the Parliament as Angela Merkel tries to build a new coalition. Wolfgang

Schauble is known in Europe for abdicating strict austerity measures during the eurozone crisis. The decision comes days after Mrs. Merkel's party

suffered heavy losses in parliamentary elections, although she was returned for a fourth term.

Backlash growing after Iraqi Kurds voted overwhelmingly for independence. Iraqi Prime Minister is calling for the referendum to be annulled. Most

everyone outside of northern the Iraq opposes the vote, saying it Will lead to instability in the region. Several airlines have suspended flights.

The chief executive of Microsoft, Satya Nadella, tells me tonight that he's a product of the American dream and that it's in America's interest to keep

that dream alive for future immigrants.

Now, Satya Nadella says every chief executive today needs to take a stand on social issues. And he refers to the fact Microsoft has done that

throughout the year. So, looking at some of the things that Microsoft has taking a stand on. It has taken -- supported legal action against the

original travel ban issued by the Trump administration days into the administration. It did the same thing ahead of a Supreme Court case

involving transgender rights. And it called president Trump's decision to strip the so-called Dreamers of their work permit, a big step back for the


Nadella himself also defended the Paris Climate Agreement, saying Microsoft would stay committed to doing its part, even as United States has vowed

pull out. Controversy and the chief executive. We've talked about it many times, on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. And asked the issue about whether CEOs are

today's moral compass.

[16:35:06] Satya Nadella says it's his job to stand up for the rights of his employees. And that every, every CEO in some shape or form needs a

strong moral compass to succeed. Having just written his new book, he told me standing up for what's right is fundamental to Microsoft's progress.


SATYA NADELLA, CEO, MICROSOFT: It's existential for us as a business. For example, we say our mission is to empower people and organizations all over

the planet to achieve more. It's fantastic. And if we do not have that diversity represented in the company, there is no way we can produce

anything of value to the world we want to serve. So, it's not just having the representation, but it's the ability for them to fully participate.

And, quite frankly, I look at -- let's now take it outside of Microsoft. Let's talk about the United States. I'm a product of two amazingly unique

things of the United States. One is its technology reaching me where I was growing up and letting me dream the dream. And it was the enlightened

immigration policy of this country that let me live the dream. That's what I think is precious about our country. Because it's our competitive

advantage. It's not that we're doing this for someone else. We're doing it for our own country's sake.

QUEST: Are both of those under threat today in this country?

NADELLA: Look, the first thing I would say, though, is, before we talk about being under threat, let's acknowledge that there is no other place a

story like mine would even be possible. Or like yours would be possible. Because this is a country that everybody seeks to come to. They want to

participate. They want to contribute. Let's start with that. And then say, yes, let's preserve it. Let's talk about the reform. Of course, the

borders need to be protected. Every country does that. Let us, in fact, show both humanity and the smarts to use immigration to make us stronger.

QUEST: Right. But within this role, and I'm not trying to force you into criticizing the president. I'm trying to understand what you see your role

is as the CEO of a major company when you see president, prime minister, whatever it might be, going what you believe is against your values.

NADELLA: And we've been very clear. In fact, take DACA, for example, and we were very, very clear that we believed the Dreamers are contributing to

Microsoft. We have ten a pretty public stance that we will fight for their rights. So, I believe companies like ours and CEOs like me need to have a

set of principles that really help us protect the enduring values. And ultimately move the courts and other, you know, avenues available.

QUEST: Does that mean doing more interviews on controversial issues? Because so many CEOs -- for example, if I take the travel ban or I take

transgender or I take this latest one on race, and the NFL, it all -- the press statements come out. But by God, you can't get anybody to put up an

interview. Nobody wants to actually say in interview X, Y, Z.

NADELLA: You know, look, I think one of the key things is for us is to have the principled stance. But also, I think, we have got to be very

mindful that nobody elected us. We're CEOs of companies. And our job is to stand up for the principles and our employees, and, in fact, take a very

principled stance and be clear. But for us to cross that line and act as if we're in the political arena would also be a mistake. In fact, it would

be a mistake for any democracy to basically let that happen.

QUEST: But CEOs our becoming the new moral compass in the world today. Would you agree?

NADELLA: I think that it's important for anyone in power to have a moral compass and to be able to truly stand up for what are the enduring values

of our countries, our democracies.

QUEST: That's beautifully avoided. But avoided it was. Are CEOs now responsible in ways they weren't in previous years?

NADELLA: And, in fact, if anything, the one thing I have learned in the three-and-a-half years as being CEO is that it's such a multi-constituent

job. I mean, I had never thought -- oh, I thought, it's about shareholders, it's about employees, it's about customers. Guess what?

It's about all of them, plus governments, about the broader world, all simultaneously happening. So, yes, you are absolutely right. No CEO can

just say I'm, you know, somehow not impacted by what's happening in society and therefore, being clear about your positions is going to something you

have to be -- you know, be clear and articulate on.

[16:40:00] Which leaders do you admire? Which political leaders do you admire? Notice I'm not asking you who you don't admire. Which political

leaders have got that set of values, that leadership, that you admire?

NADELLA: You know, I mean, the person that's --

NEWTON: That's alive and in power. That's alive and empower. I'm not having Winston Churchill and Nelson Mandela.

NADELLA: I was going to say Mandela, but --

QUEST: Yes. We want that one out.

NADELLA: Look, I think the person I admire is what Merkel has done. I mean, look at what she has been able to do in Germany. The stance she took

even. The enlightened stance she took about sort of the refugee crisis. I feel that she is someone who has led the country and led the country during

difficult times of transition. And I think there's a lot all of us can learn from her.

QUEST: Do you ever -- before we move on after leadership, do you ever just want to throw your hands up and say, I'm running a technology company.

Stop asking me all these questions.

NADELLA: All the time.

QUEST: About, you know, controversial issue, gay-rights, women's rights, the Google manifesto. First -- you say here -- you even had to write to

your board of directors, I concluded being bold in supporting the rights of American citizens to exercise their constitutional rights is consistent

with Microsoft's values. You have to be an expert and ready to opine on every controversial issue of the day.

NADELLA: I think that's what one learns. That when you -- especially in a time like this, when technology you so much part of our lives, so much part

of our economy and society. I think in particular tech companies and tech platform companies have to really stand up and step up to that role. That

doesn't mean we are experts. One thing that I sometimes think about is that, hey, you know, we're not experts in this. Let us make sure we don't

overstep that. But there is that line. That is the principles that are dear to us, that I think not only us in technology but as a society, let's

stand up for it.


QUEST: Satya Nadella. Now on tomorrow night's program, you're going to hear more from him on how he plans to hit refresh on the company bedding

the farm on artificial intelligence. There he only been three CEOs at Microsoft in its 40-year history. You've got Bill Gates, obviously, the

first. You have then got Steve Ballmer and now Satya Nadella. So, on tomorrow night's program, listen to Nadella talking about what he's going

to do about, for instance, artificial intelligence, Microsoft itself, a company and how he's managed to turn it around. That's on tomorrow night's


There are fresh anticorruption protests in South Africa, where thousands of union workers across the country are taking to the streets and demanding

the removal a President Zuma.


[16:45:05] QUEST: South Africa's Parliament has cut ties with the auditing firm KPMG after the firm became ensnared in a corruption scandal that

involved the controversial Gupta family, who have close ties to President Jacob Zuma.

Known as state capture activities, thousands of people took to the streets across South Africa demanding an end to the country's rampant corruption

and calling for President Zuma to stand down. The critics of the president are furious over accusations of outside interest groups using taxpayer

money. Some of the money was supposed to be invested in local communities, yet many of those communities are still waiting to receive the benefit of

the funds. CNN's David McKenzie reports from South Africa.


DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For his cattle to survive Michat Ongwana take a service to the cemetery. He says black farmers in

the free state province have it tough

MICHAT ONGWANA, RANCHER, SOUTH AFRICA: We want to send our children to school, that is the main thing. A few years back these ranchers say signed

up for shares and cash in a large-scale government financed dairy farm.

MCKENZIE: You are supposed to have ownership of this company.


MCKENZIE: Have you seen any money?

ONGWANA: No, nothing. Not even a cent of it I have never got it of it.

MCKENZIE: We are from CNN we just want to see if we could access the property to talk to people. The allegation is that millions of dollars

were siphoned away this dairy project into the hands of other people and that it hasn't really benefited the community at all.

What you make of the allegations of corruption?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a secondary question to me. I am just an assistant farm manager. I am operating the farm, I don't look even like I

even have a single million.

MCKENZIE: But records first exposed in South African media show that much of the money went to uplift poor black farmers allegedly paid for this.

A lavish wedding at Sun City for the Gupta family covered in a local celebrity shows top billing.

In attendance were four partners of global accounting firm KPMG. KPMG says that they audit of the company that paid for the wedding fell well short of

the quality expected. In South Africa, KPMG is now under fire because of that work for the Guptas, clients they have now dropped. Wealthy Indian

businessman with an empire that spans media, mining and energy, the Guptas are implicated in this and in other corruption scandals.

Allegedly, profiting from their cozy relationship with President Jacob Zuma. Allegations that the Guptas and Zuma have repeatedly denied.

DAVID LEWIS, CORRUPTION WATCH: When corruption reaches a scale that it has reached here and particularly where it starts to involve cross-border flows

of illicit money, it is absolutely necessary to get law firms, auditing firms, management consultants, banks involved in it. They could not do it

without them.

MCKENZIE: KPMG says it found no illegal or even unethical action by its auditors. But it has made changes in leadership and improved quality

control. In a statement, the chairman said they made serious mistakes to continue working for the Guptas.

But these ranchers say that their livelihoods and community was put at risk, and promises of prosperity enriching others. David McKenzie, CNN,

Vrede, South Africa.


QUEST: Now tomorrow night you're going to hear from Pravin Gordhan, the former finance minister who will be on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. We talk

obviously about KPMG and I will ask Gordhan whether he now believes it is time for Jacob Zuma to go? You can download our podcast. The show is a

podcast. It is available from all the main providers, and why not listen

Major brewers are facing a disruptive army of independent microbreweries. There is a company that is helping small players to battle with the beer

behemoths. Or should that be a beer battle with the behemoths. Or maybe the behemoths are going in for a battle the beer. Whatever it is, it's

after the break on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.


QUEST: It's coming up to 10 PM in Britain just one hour before the pubs will be shouting or the landlord, time, gentlemen, please. And maybe a few

ladies as well.

[16:50:00] Most British pubs still serve up a pint of bitter and a bag of nuts. You will be lucky if you get change from a 5er or 10er. Micro

brewing is changing everything. Our latest episode of trade is following one company that caters to the beer connoisseur. And forget a pint of

bitter, you better light a hint of mango in your schooner.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the Edge microbrewery in Barcelona Spain, the latest draft is ready for the U.K. market. The flow of this craft beer into the

hands and throats of thirsty British drinkers is enabled by the online platform, Honest Brew.

CRAIG WILLMOTT, CHIEF BEER OFFICER: 150,000 beers are stored in our warehouse. Around about 20 percent of these are imported.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The team has a singular passion to turn the British beer drinker into beer aficionado.

ANDREW REEVE, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, HONEST BREW: Honest Brew started in 2012, 2013 when you first moved over to the U.K. from New Zealand. The

U.K. it's a smaller island compared to a lot of other countries. But it has 64, 65 million people in it.

It is perfectly set up for an online business because you can ship directly to people's houses over shorter distances. And craft beer is such a great

product for online because you have got so much variety in beer. We now stock over 1700 different beers, and that is so right for having a

centralized distribution that you can ship directly to the consumer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The company has grown from kitchen table to start up with $1 million future.

The trade economics of beer is a frothy mix. Falling sales meant a hiccup in the $2 trillion alcohol market last year driven by a weaker thirst for

beer. To be a drinker as become more discerning with a burgeoning taste for craft beers. A major alcohol companies are joining the trend acquiring

and pouring investment into popular microbreweries.

In the biggest growth potential is online. With China, Japan and the U.K. dominating the global click and drink market.

REEVE: A lot more people are using mobile online for shopping, so we were about 40 percent mobile when we started, we are now about 60 percent mobile

in terms of traffic. But it's the revenue side of it that is going up.

WILLMOTT: When you are actually drinking a beer, you are usually doing that with a mobile device in front of you, so we want to take the

experience of learning more about the beers, the brewer was actually made that beer, learn about the tastes and flavors, so there is so much more

scope to it. So, people start to see it in the same way that they see wine, that provenance becomes important.

[16:55:00] That the flavors become important, the complexity, there is so much variety and range inside of it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With plans to build the online community by offering a variety Honest Brew wants to prove the craft beer trend is more than a



QUEST: More from the traders next week. A look at the markets before we take a short break.

The day started well on the Dow Jones indented so dwindled after lunch. Pretty much bounced around. But they finished higher on hopes that tax

reform would drive up corporate profits, so the die was up 56 points. It is the longest losing streak since June, the biggest gain, perhaps you will

not be surprised, financial and tech stocks.

That is interesting because earlier in the week when there were those very sharp falls, it was the NASDAQ that fell most, now you see exactly the

opposite, you see the NASDAQ up 1 percent, in the Dow up 1/4, the S&P up .41 percent.

And the European markets finished mostly in the green, as investors waited for tax plan. Germany saw the best of the day up nearly 1/2 percent. The

country's finance minister Wolfgang Schauble, a stalwart of international economics, is ready to step down, and whether he has been pushed or he's

jumped, I mean he has been pushed. He has given up his job. He's going to become a candidate for the speaker of the German parliament which is

interesting in a way because with the AFD taking seats in the parliament, so a strong hand as president of the parliament will be significant.

Wolfgang Schauble we'll get that job.

Profitable Moment is after the break.


QUEST: Tonight's Profitable Moment, listening to Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft talking about values was fascinating tonight. Because he makes a

strong point that it was the prospect of opportunity along with the open immigration policy of the United States that enabled him to get where he is

today or at least get a foot on the ladder.

And that's why when he says the significance of values, CEOs as moral compasses, and political leaders showing the way forward, it becomes ever

more significant. And interestingly, one of the leaders that he mentions Angela Merkel who stuck by her principles and values when the question of


That's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're

doing in the hours ahead, I hope it is profitable, Good night.