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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Clues on Las Vegas Shooter; Las Vegas Massacre; Could O.J. End Up Back in Prison?. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 05, 2017 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST: Just days after the massacre on the Vegas Strip...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots coming from the Mandalay Bay halfway up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming out a window!
BANFIELD: Brand-new details about who else and where else the killer was scoping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s clear that the shooter had some kind of escape plan in mind.
BANFIELD: And still no answer to the most important question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Believe me, we want to know why.
BANFIELD: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Usually, there`s a telltale sign associated with these types of actions. We have not found that yet.
BANFIELD: Tonight, reports that Boston and Chicago may have been in the crosshairs, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s concerning that an individual like this was thinking about potentially carrying out an attack like this in Chicago.
BANFIELD: At a concert attended by President Obama`s daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What stopped his plans?
BANFIELD: Where does the investigation stand? What questions can they answer? And was the worst mass shooting in our modern history the work of
just one man?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got to make the assumption that he had to have some help at some point.
BANFIELD: And while the press is focused on the Vegas shooting, O.J. Simpson hits the Vegas Strip.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say, quote, "You can`t teach an old dog new tricks."
BANFIELD: Five days after leaving prison, he`s taking selfies with fans and reportedly signing autographs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no doubt he`s going to have perfect performance on parole.
BANFIELD: But if the Juice wants to remain loose, he best not be taking a dime from those fans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think you guys want me here.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield.
Major new developments tonight in the Las Vegas shooting, law enforcement hot on the trail of the shooter, Stephen Paddock, and his final steps in
the days and weeks leading up to his massacre. We are now learning that Paddock may have set his sights on other venues weeks ago, casing the
Lollapalooza music festival this summer in Chicago, the same festival where President Obama`s daughter, Malia, was in attendance. A hotel in Chicago
says someone by the same name, Stephen Paddock, reserved a room overlooking the music festival, but did not check in.
Also, officials say the weekend before the massacre in Vegas, Paddock booked a condo using AIRbnb overlooking another Vegas music festival aptly
named Life Is Beautiful. That also in Las Vegas.
And then, of course, tonight, police searching for possible accomplices or anybody who just may have known more about Paddock and his plans, even if
they didn`t know that the plans were ultimately to end like this.
The news is also settling in that the shooter planned to survive and escape after his attack. But of course, police say he ended up killing himself
after gunning down 58 innocent concertgoers and wounding nearly 500 innocent people from his hotel suite perch.
We`re also getting a look at three new and very disturbing videos, all with different angles, of the reign of terror that could actually help the
police in this investigation. The one that you`re about to see -- I have to warn you, it is a chilling scene.
We are not lingering on that video. There are a number of bodies that can be seen. There are a lot of people who are also paralyzed, it seems, in
fear, just not moving at all despite the fact the bullets are still raining down on them.
The police are also releasing bodycam video of the shooting, a lot of bodycam video, and it definitely shows a whole other perspective. Take a
look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, you guys, get down! Go that way! Get out of here! There`s gunshots coming from over there. (INAUDIBLE) Go that way.
Go that way! Go that way! Go that way! Go that way!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, they`re shooting right at us, guys. Everybody stay down. Stay down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where`s it at?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the Mandalay Bay, coming out a window!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) at the Mandalay Bay. It`s coming out of a window.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back, get back, get back, get back. Get back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) with a gun up there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get in there. Get in there!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Where are you? Where are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This way, this way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, go, go, go, go. That way, that way, that way, that way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:06:17]BANFIELD: And there is yet a newly released video that shows a whole other angle, police officers telling people -- literally telling
people to run for their lives. I want to warn you. This is difficult to watch. It is extremely disturbing, but officers just shouting, Run for
your life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down! Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED)! Run! Run! (INAUDIBLE) Run, don`t walk!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Run! Go! Go! Go! Everybody go! Go! Run! Keep your head down! Go! Keep your heads down! Go! Run! Keep your head
down! Keep your head down! Run! Go! Keep your head down! Run! Go! Come on, keep your head down! Go! Come on! Run! Go! Come on! Keep
your head down! Run! Go! Keep your head down! Go! You guys, go! Go!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I want to begin now with CNN correspondent Sara Sidner, who is live in Las Vegas. She`s been collecting details as they come out, and
they have been fast and furious coming out. And what was so disturbing today was to learn that there may have been several other venues on his
radar. Specifically, I want to talk to you about Chicago. Tell me what you know about Chicago.
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just what we`re hearing from the hotel. We`re able to confirm through the hotel, a nice hotel that overlooks
Chicago`s Grant Park, that there was a man named Stephen Paddock who booked a room there that was overlooking what were going to be Lollapalooza during
the time of Lollapalooza, which is one of the nation`s largest music festivals.
And very similar to this one, it is outdoors. Lots of people cram in there enjoying that in August. He actually booked and he booked it during that
time in a hotel that overlooks where Lollapalooza is held in Chicago`s Grant Park. A chilling thought, when you consider the number of people
there and also the venue. You know, there`s a lot of water there. Hard for people to get out of the way if he did, indeed, choose that as his
place where he was going to shoot and kill people, although the hotel has said, Look, this person was named Stephen Paddock. They -- he never did
check in, A. And B, they`re not exactly sure if it`s the same person that was here, but same name, same type of venue, investigators looking at that
very closely, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: And Sara, we do know this, and that is that the former President Obama, his daughter, Malia, was at that concert. She was at that venue,
wasn`t she.
SIDNER: Yes. I think Malia and Sasha were both -- attended that. And did he know that? No one knows at this point. And of course, the
investigation is still very much under way. And I can`t stress that enough, with investigators from the FBI and local investigators from the
sheriff`s department and from the police department, all of them kind of looking into this and continuing to look into this.
This hasn`t been long enough for them to figure out exactly what the motive was behind -- we still don`t know why. A lot of people want to know that
answer. Investigators told me yesterday, Look, that`s really, really important to us because it helps us determine how to profile this person.
It might help us if someone else decides or tries to do something like this. So they`re really looking for that motive. But still not there yet,
Ashleigh.
[20:10:00]BANFIELD: We had heard they`re exploiting his media as fast as they can, meaning every single cell phone, every piece of electronics, the
laptops that they discovered in the -- they are looking through everything. The reports are coming out slowly. Even possibly Boston may have been
researched. Fenway Park came up, as well.
Again, these are reports that haven`t been confirmed yet, but they have, in fact, confirmed that Ogden condominiums in downtown Las Vegas, the weekend
before for that Life Is Beautiful concert.
I just want to show, if I can, the Google Earth image so I can give people a perspective of how significant this is. If you zoom in on Vegas, you get
right down into where the Ogden condominiums are. The arrow will show you sort of the perspective. The arrow points towards where they would be
looking.
And the spot shadow you`re about to see is the entire venue. Look how massive it is. All of those squares, all of those what look like vacant
squares would be filled with people.
Those are all festival venues as that circle sweeps around, and they almost all could be seen from those Ogden condominiums. And what we`re hearing is
that there are upwards annually, I think, of 100,000 people that come to this festival. This is absolutely chilling.
SIDNER: It absolutely is. And we should also mention a little bit about Stephen Paddock himself and maybe a look into the way his mind worked. We
were able to talk to an adviser here who is sort of a Vegas insider, a former professional gambler. And he talked about the fact that, you know,
when you look at Stephen Paddock and some of the things that he did -- people didn`t know him by name, but certainly when his picture came out
here, some of the other professional gamblers in town recognized him, said, Oh, yes, he`s was at some of those high-roller events that are invitation
only for people who spend a ton of money at casinos.
And we learned that he was very much into video poker. And what does that mean? Well, we asked the professional gambler, Anthony Curtis (ph), and he
said, Look, this is a thinking man`s game if you`re going to try to make money or at least break even. And so this is someone who would be
meticulous, someone who would study and try to figure out how he could win when he`s dealing with the game. But it`s also a game that really could be
very attractive to loners, people who do not want to socialize.
And as we understand it from those who talked to Anthony Curtis, indeed, he was not really social with other gamblers, even though he was spending
somewhere up to $100,000 a day as he`s in there playing this video poker.
So it is really interesting to look at the way his mind was working, but it still doesn`t tell us why he went into the Mandalay Bay...
BANFIELD: No, you`re right.
SIDNER: ... and shot and killed...
BANFIELD: Main question.
SIDNER: ... all these people.
BANFIELD: Main question still unanswered. Sara Sidner, thank you for that.
I want to bring in Kevin Barry. He`s an explosives expert, also retired New York City police detective. Detective, I was so disturbed when I read
this report in "The Las Vegas Review Journal." CNN is still trying to track this down and confirm this. But it was very specific. And it talked
about these massive fuel tanks that are probably about 800 yards away from the Mandalay Bay hotel and from where the shooter was positioned.
And the police confirmed to "The Las Vegas Review Journal" that those tanks -- you can see the arrow pointing towards those tanks -- had been hit and
that there had been holes in the tanks. But it`s a little confusing, but that the tanks had not been completely breached, that the tanks are filled
with jet fuel because McCarran airport and the private aircraft area is right nearby the Strip. The airport is only a stone`s throw away.
But I wanted to ask an expert how difficult that would have been from 800- plus yards away to have used those automatic weapons and aimed for those tanks. And after that, what would have happened if the tanks had been
breached?
KEVIN BARRY, EXPLOSIVES EXPERT, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE (via telephone): Well, first, it would not be a hard thing to do with a shooter with a
scope, or even a decent shooter at that range with a rifle that has the velocity and reach to hit the tanks.
The risk of an explosion is minimal at this point. Most of the tanks have fire suppressant systems connected to them. And Jet-A (ph), which is used
in the aircraft industry, is a much purer form of kerosene that burns rapidly and readily, but it does not explode if ignited, like gasoline can.
BANFIELD: So if the bullets had actually -- and again, I want to just reiterate, this is a report from "The Las Vegas Review Journal," but if
this report pans out and it`s true the bullets hit those tanks but did not penetrate them, what would have happened if they did?
BARRY: There would be -- there`s a possibility of a fire occurring. If that be the case, that may have been used as a diversionary for him to
possibly escape from the hotel. That might be part of the master plan.
[20:15:04]But since this investigation is in such a fluid state right now, it`s only speculation by my part at this point. The investigation will
continue at a rapid rate by multiple agencies.
BANFIELD: Detective Barry, the other report -- and you know, since so much information is coming out, sometimes actually synthesizing it makes you
realize that it`s not just a fact, it`s actually -- it would have been a potential crisis -- that the car that this murderer had parked at the
Mandalay Bay hotel -- and I think we can show the parking deck where he had parked this vehicle that was filled with 50 pounds of Tannerite and 1,600
rounds of ammunition. These are the additional details we`re learning about the car that was in the parking deck.
If -- and I`m just trying get your feeling. If that vehicle had been fired upon, with 50 pounds of Tannerite in it and 1,600 pounds of ammo, would
that effectively have become a massive pipe bomb in itself and sent that ammo literally scattering in every direction as shrapnel?
BARRY: If the Tannerite had been impacted by a high-velocity round, it would have caused an explosion, a massive explosion of the Tannerite. If
it was confined in the trunk, the more you confine the explosive, the more power it generates as it tries to expand and push out from inside the
vehicle. It would have been a massive car bomb if that had happened.
BANFIELD: It`s just -- it`s chilling to think what might have happened, especially considering that the sheriff now says he had a plan to escape.
He had a plan to escape that hotel room. How long he thought he escaped for or whether he wanted to escape to another site of destruction like that
vehicle remains to be seen.
I want to bring in David Shepherd. He is a former FBI SWAT team leader. He`s the former executive director of security for the Venetian resort
hotel and casino.
David, thanks so much for being with me. There`s a lot of questions I have. First and foremost, I want to look at this photograph that "The
Daily Mail" released of the shooter`s body because the closer you look at that scene -- I mean, there`s just so much to analyze in that hotel room,
all the weapons, all the ammunition, the scopes, the sites. But specifically, if you look at this body -- and I think our banner might be
covering it. He is gloved. There you go. You can see his hand, his left hand specifically is gloved, and it looks to be resting on the butt end of
a rifle that he has fallen on. And yet another rifle appears to have fallen on him.
And I wonder, with your SWAT experience, if you can tell me if that gives you some forensic information as to his last moments.
DAVID SHEPHERD, FORMER FBI SWAT TEAM LEADER: What I look at with the glove, the barrel`s become really hot, extremely hot, and he`s grabbing the
weapons once they either jam or he runs out ammo, takes them, throws them to another site. Then he grabs another one. Then he grabs another one.
That was something that they look at right off the bat as they`re trying to keep (ph) in shooting and shooting without stopping.
BANFIELD: There is some other evidence that -- you know, the sheriff is very upset it leaked to the press, but they have confirmed it is, in fact -
- it is the real McCoy. It is the material from the investigators.
And that is that room service cart. If you look closely at the room service cart, they have told us the cameras were placed on the room service
cart, but on closer zoom, you can actually see the cables. You can see the cables leading from the room service cart, and then, you know, may have
tried to disguise it with some plates but they effectively lead into the room.
The peephole from his door also had cables that were visible upon a closer zoom. And then the sheriff let us know there was, indeed, in fact, a third
camera that was not photographed, but it was a baby monitor. Of all things, a baby monitor camera that was in the living area of the suite.
And I`m wondering, again with your SWAT, experience, you come upon a lot of these scenes. Is that the evidence that no one will actually say is the
evidence of him wanting to survive this shooting and escape, the fact that he was monitoring but not recording, just watching to see when the police
were coming. Or is there something else that this scene, or at least what you can see of it, tells you about evidence that he was planning to escape
and survive?
SHEPHERD: I looked at the cameras in relationship to him being warned that the SWAT team or officers were coming down the hall and have an opportunity
to take and engage them before they ever got to his door. The same thing by looking through any peepholes and be able to take and get out.
Could he use that for trying to escape? Depends on what he was trying to do. Only 10 percent of the active shooters that we`ve seen in 160-plus
type cases actually try to escape. And what he looked like he was doing was trying to warn himself what was going on inside to give him more time
to prepare if somebody was coming up on him.
[20:20:04]BANFIELD: All right, I want you to stay with me, if you can. We got a lot more to cover. There are so many details coming out. We do know
who the shooter was in the Vegas massacre, but really, what he was all about is still a complete mystery. What those pictures from inside the
killer`s hotel room and the actual crime scene, what he left behind -- surprisingly, it does give you an indication of the mind of a madman. And
you`re going to find out from the person who says she knows exactly what this picture can tell you about him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say this was a meticulously planned attack. The killer installed several hidden cameras.
[20:25:02]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A work-around of the gun laws. Legal to buy yet illegal to actually use.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And tracking the money`s going to be crucial. Was that money sent to her so that she could have for future use, family, or
something more nefarious?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was sent away so that she will be not there to interfere with what he`s planning!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, they`re shooting right at us, guys. Everybody stay down. Stay down!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Obviously, the images of that horrible night from Sunday night continue to leak out because there are so many cell phones that were
rolling during that carnage. The question still remains, as the hell was being unleashed below, what was going on in that hotel room? Who was that
evil? Who was that personification of evil unleashing that hell in a murderous rampage?
It turns out you can learn a lot from what he left behind. And I want to bring in Mary Ellen O`Toole. She`s a retired FBI agent and profiler.
Mary Ellen, it is fascinating to think that the detritus of his crime scene helps you to understand who he was, what he was thinking and how he went
about his business. Take me from there.
MARY ELLEN O`TOOLE, RETIRED FBI AGENT AND PROFILER: Well, first of all, looking at the crime scene itself and the behavior that he was manifesting
at the crime scene, it was very cold-blooded. It was very callous. It was actually very predatory, as well. He`s up high, and he`s shooting down at
those people, his victims, in a way that a hunter would shoot down at an animal.
BANFIELD: What about just the scattered nature of the weapons? They`re everywhere. They`re on the floor. They`re in what looks like a bathtub,
but it`s actually two chairs pushed together almost to be like a chest, a war chest. Does that tell you anything?
O`TOOLE: Well, actually, the way that room is set up -- and I`m careful because I see the police officers`, the detective`s shoes in the corner.
So there probably has been some movement of some of those things, But it looked like he had them in places where he could grab them pretty readily,
and he had taken them out of the roller bag. You can sort of see that off to the side. But he had them in places where he could grab them fairly
quickly and kind of change out from different weapons, if that`s what he chose to do.
So I think that`s very important. And I also think it`s important that the way it was set up, it does sort of look like command center, and he was the
commander of this center. So he had it -- everything set up around him. And it probably took him several tries, practices, to actually decide, This
one will go here, I want this here.
BANFIELD: Wow.
O`TOOLE: I don`t think it was a helter-skelter situation. I think he thought that through.
BANFIELD: It`s disturbing on so many levels, the pre-planning, you know, the premeditation for this massacre. This window shot from outside, this
is sort of the first time we`re seeing the image from the air. But you can clearly see a sofa. What looks to be a sofa has been pushed up against
that window. And it almost makes me think he created a sniper`s nest so that he could fire like a hunter on those below.
But my question to you isn`t so much about the setup as it is the people below because we`re just now learning tonight the identity of one of the --
sort of the more famous and iconic people that have emerged through images from the scene below. And if I can just ask our control room to pull up
the image of this soldier who was crouched over -- and it looked like protecting a woman. This man that you`re seeing is Matthew Cobos (ph).
He`s been identified as the man in this picture. And this -- again, for me, this has been the most iconic photo I think of the entire story. You
can see him either protecting her or comforting her. And for many people, he`s been hailed as a hero in this story.
And now I can tell you that a tweet has come out from the U.S. Army identifying him. They said, Las Vegas shooting hero has been identified as
U.S. Army soldier Matthew Cobos. He is the epitome of the American soldier. And there he is standing at attention.
I can`t, unfortunately, tell you the condition of the woman that he was protecting in that photo. I just don`t know. But I did wonder if a man
like this murderer in his sniper`s nest ever thought for a moment who these people were below. What is going through his mind about these real people
below?
O`TOOLE: No, he would not be thinking at all about these people. In fact, these people below were objects to him. They weren`t human beings. And
that would have been necessary for him to have completed such an outrageous crime.
And I think what`s even more heartbreaking and concerning is that these people were really conduits. They were really collateral damage in this
grandiose, spectacular crime that he was committing. So he wasn`t thinking about them. He had no feelings for them. He had dehumanized them.
[20:30:30]
BANFIELD: I mean, it is just so chilling not just to see those survivors in such terror, but the heroes that stayed, the heroes that comforted, the
heroes that saved. And in some instances the heroes that gave their lives to protect others, and that includes those officers, too.
I want to bring in forensic psychiatrist Dr. Daniel Bober into this conversation. Dr. Bober, If I can, I want to play a 20-second clip. And it
is not an easy clip to watch, but I think it is helpful to anybody watching tonight, because if you`re moving forward out of this terrible story, many
people sort of have this question, what would I do?
What would I do if I were on that field with 22,000 people and I had no idea where the bullets were coming from? Where would I run? Would I run?
And in this clip, I think you`re going to see a lot of people -- there`s a lot of movement in the camera, but I think you`re going to see a lot of
people in the midst of bodies and they seemed paralyzed -- they seemed paralyzed with something, fear, terror, and they`re not moving. Take a look
at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(GUNFIRE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Because that video was so disturbing, we can`t even show the bulk of it, but it is more harrowing than that. And I think a lot of people
watching, doctor, would say if that were me, I would be running for my life. Why aren`t the others? Why aren`t they?
DANIEL BOBER, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: You know what, Ashleigh, a lot of people say if that was me, this is what I would do. But the truth is none
of us really know what we would do unless we were actually in that situation. Think about it, you`re standing there watching a concert and you
hear popping noises and you think is this fireworks? Is this pyrotechnics?
And then suddenly you realized that your life is in mortal danger. We talk about the fight or flight instinct. And this is a term that was coined in
the `20s, but we know that it`s actually fight, flight, or freeze.
When our life is threatened, chemicals in our brain and our bodies such as adrenaline and cortisol are released which raises our blood pressure and
our pulse, our pupils dilate, our blood is shunted to the major muscle groups and we`re ready to fight.
But what happens when we realized that we can`t fight, that there`s an unseen enemy and there`s no way to fight, but then simultaneously at the
same time we realized there`s nowhere to run and we see people falling around all over the place and we don`t know where it is safe, this is where
the freeze comes in.
We call it disassociation or playing dead and it occurs in mammals. And it`s adaptive and it`s self-protective. Our emotions become so overwhelmed
that our body actually shuts down and we freeze up.
And it may seem counter-intuitive, but this is actually protective because our brain is so overwhelmed by emotion that the only way for us to survive
mentally is to disconnect ourselves from our thoughts and from our emotions.
BANFIELD: So I`ve heard that a lot of people in this circumstance instinctively will run to the place where they entered. It makes sense.
But if anyone is watching right now and fears that they very much could be in this same circumstance given the number of mass shootings we now
experience in the United States, is there something that you can learn or understand or at least lock away for later to help you make the right
decision and not be overcome to the point of paralysis? Is there something that you can do --
BOBER: Yes.
BANFIELD: -- so that your past experiences don`t dictate your future actions, but your new knowledge will?
BOBER: You know, Ashleigh, many years ago, there was a famous fire in Rhode Island called the station fire where a band was playing --
BANFIELD: I know it well.
BOBER: -- and something like 100 people died.
BANFIELD: Yes, 100 exactly. Yes, I covered it. It was horrifying.
BOBER: The people that survived that incident were the people who when they came into the club, scanned the location and said, I came into the main
entrance, but what if something were to happen, where would I go? Where are the side entrances? Is there an exit behind the stage?
The message here is when you`re in a situation, when you`re in a crowd, when you`re in a public place, think about this stuff before something
happens, think about if I had to exit, where would I go? Most people go out the same way they came in because that is the last thing that they
remember. When you`re in that state,
[20:35:00] your rational mind is not working, your reactive mind is working. And it is only about survival and you are not capable of complex
thinking or planning or organization of any kind.
BANFIELD: Just one last question about that. Listen. This happened just after 10:00, 10:05 is when the shooting began, and there were a lot of
people drinking heavily. There were people running out of that venue still clutching their beer bottles and their drinks.
And I just wonder if you can weigh in on the alcohol factor and how that may have stymied some of the reactions from people who may have been
quicker thinking and able to get out of there faster?
BOBER: Ironically, the alcohol would have acted as a central nervous system depressant and actually would have made people more calm actually to make
decisions and act without fear or anxiety.
So for some people, the alcohol may have actually been beneficial and if some people were too impaired and their judgment wasn`t good, then maybe
they would not have been able to appreciate the full weight of the situation, but for some it might actually have been beneficial.
BANFIELD: Yale University, assistant clinical professor of forensic psychiatry, fascinating. Dr. Bober, I appreciate your perspective and your
insight. I think it`s really helpful.
I think many of us are looking for something to cling on to because sadly we know we`re going to report on more of these. They`re going to happen.
And they maybe coming to a town near you and that`s just the awful reality. Doctor, thank you.
BOBER: My pleasure, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: A lot of people also have a feeling that they want to help when things like this happen. You can. In the aftermath of this massacre, the
Clark County Nevada Commission chair from Las Vegas is raising funds to assist the victims of the shooting.
If there`s one silver lining in what we`ve been reporting over the last four days is that they`ve now topped -- look at the total there. They`ve
now topped $9.3 million. I can also tell you by tonight now all 58 of the victims who died in this massacre have finally been identified.
[20:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: While the press has been laser focused on the aftermath of the massacre in Las Vegas, one of that city`s newest residents may have used
the opportunity to get out and about under the radar. O.J. Simpson hasn`t been out of prison for a week, but it is possible that he has already been
busy making money signing autographs?
The reason we ask is because this photo reportedly was snapped in a private Las Vegas hotel room on Tuesday. Simpson just two days into his parole on
that day. By the way, that day is the anniversary of two different things; both his 2008 conviction for armed robbery and his 1995 acquittal for
murder.
He was said to be signing memorabilia including those football helmets. Take a close look. Yes, those are his teams. Simpson has very strict parole
rules that he has to follow.
So, if he`s signing autographs for money and if he fails to report that money, it could be a one way ticket back to prison as a parole violatoin
because remember that in the July parole hearing that set him free, Simpson had vowed that he would turn over a brand-new leaf. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say, "you can`t teach an old dog new tricks." And as "old dog" my friend, I can tell you that is not true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, Simpson just happens to owe the family of Ron Goldman tens of millions of dollars after losing that 1997 civil suit for wrongful
death. I want to show you something brand spanking new.
Today, Simpson was spotted at the Las Vegas Police Department. We are told that he was, in fact, filling out standard paperwork for parolees. The
video you`re seeing is that seven-second video and that`s all they gave us, of his release. But this -- let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Simpson, just some questions for you about --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing, O.J.?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And away he goes. Courtesy of KSND. This is him emerging from the Las Vegas Police Department. Today. What was he doing there? Because if you
are let out of prison, that would be the last place you`d want to end up.
I want to bring in Malcolm LaVergne, who is O.J. Simpson`s attorney. You`ve probably seen Mr. LaVergne because he was the attorney present at that
parole hearing. A very successful parole hearing. So, congratulations to you, sir, for that work.
No matter how you feel about O.J., it`s good lawyering when you can actually do something for your client like that. What happened? Why was he
at the police station today?
MALCOLM LAVERGNE, ATTORNEY FOR O.J. SIMPSON: He was at the police station just like you said, filling out basic paperwork. He`s required to register
with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department within a 48-hour time frame. He`s fulfilled this requirement. And so this is nothing out of the
ordinary.
BANFIELD: OK, that`s good to know. I think a lot of people were wondering, oh, my God, many days did it take before there was a slip-up. So, all
right, I`m sure you`re relieved.
(LAUGHTER)
LAVERGNE: Listen. That`s actually -- No. I knew that this was going to happen. And that`s actually the police station that`s --
[20:45:00] you know, I would have been concerned if he was over at the Clark County Detention Center --
BANFIELD: Right.
LAVERGNE: -- because that`s where they take people who are arrested. So, there are two different locations.
(LAUGHTER)
BANFIELD: Malcolm, let me ask you a couple things. What were those pictures that were released? It`s a private room apparently the reporting says in a
Las Vegas hotel. Those are Buffalo Bulls helmet and a USC helmet.
And I`m old enough to know those were O.J.`s teams. And I think anybody watching doesn`t even have to have a particular age to know that. These are
famous teams of O.J. If was signing, that`s him in the middle, what was he doing?
LAVERGNE: I don`t know. I really don`t know. I saw a picture, some type of freeze frame picture, and I have no clue what he was up to. So, I don`t
know. I can`t report anything about Mr. Simpson and what he`s up to.
I will say this though, Mr. Simpson is a parolee, yes. He`s a convicted felon, yes. But Mr. Simpson still has freedom to do a lot of things as long
as he`s complying with his parole conditions. So, if he`s out and about doing certain things, he can do that.
BANFIELD: Thank you for saying that because that was my next question. Nothing wrong with him going into a private hotel room and signing helmets,
nothing wrong with him getting paid for signing those helmets, but as a parolee, he has to report that income. How long does he have if he in fact
--
LAVERGNE: I don`t necessarily agree that he has to report that income. I`m not sure that`s the condition.
BANFIELD: Yes, it`s in the -- 100 percent parole condition, 100 percent, and his lawyer likely --
LAVERGNE: That`s between him and his parole officer.
BANFIELD: My question is, have you counseled him? Because I think you were the last lawyer maybe he spoke to as he`s leaving prison. Have you
counseled him as to, hey, pal, keep it on the up and up? You don`t want to mess up here.
LAVERGNE: Mr. Simpson is a parolee, he`s a convicted felon, I`ll give you both of those. I`ll tell you two things he isn`t. He isn`t an indentured
servant and he isn`t a slave and he isn`t accountable to anyone except for the Nevada Department of Parole. That`s what I can tell you.
BANFIELD: He`s accountable to the Goldmans, too.
LAVERGNE: Well, that`s a civil judgment. I don`t think he`s accountable to them. The Goldmans need to collect on the judgment.
BANFIELD: It`s a judgment, yes.
LAVERGNE: So, Mr. Simpson -- that`s who he is accountable to. It`s a civil suit judgment. Private part is still a judgment.
BANFIELD: So there are pictures also of him in the Verizon store with Arnelle taking some selfies with some fans. He`s got this really remarkably
beautiful almost $2 million house where he`s staying. A lovely setup. It`s got a potting green and a pool. It`s really, really nice.
LAVERGNE: Well, I won`t confirm or deny his location.
BANFIELD: OK. He was photographed there. Is it a friend? Do you know who it is? Does the friend live there? Is he loaning it to O.J.? What information
do you know about it?
LAVERGNE: I will neither confirm nor deny Mr. Simpson`s location. Like I said, I`ll repeat it one more time, just because he`s a convict and just
because he`s a parolee, that doesn`t give everyone carte blanche discretion to invade all of his privacy. He has rights still just like everyone else.
So. Mr. Simpson is in undisclosed location within the state of Nevada. That`s where he is.
BANFIELD: You`re a good lawyer if you`re keeping that quiet. I`m just going to push back and say he`s not any parolee. He`s O.J. Simpson. Everybody
wants to know, which is why people like me pepper you with these questions. Malcolm Lavergne, thanks for being on. I look forward to talk to you again.
LAVERGNE: Take care.
BANFIELD: OK. So, what does the Goldman family think of O.J.`s release and then all these new news; the signing of the autographs, the beautiful house
where he is staying, getting the iPhone and taking those selfies. gn his release. Getting the iphone and taking those selfies.
They have that vested interest in any money that O.J. Simpson makes. Fred Goldman`s attorney, David Cook, is going to join me next because he has
been a very, very busy man to make sure that happens.
[20:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: After nine years behind bars in Nevada, O.J. Simpson was freed from prison early Sunday. He`s already been spotted practicing his golf
putting. On Tuesday, he was reportedly signing autographs. Tonight, at the police department in Vegas. We have the tape. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Simpson, just some questions for you about --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing, O.J.?
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Nope, he`s not answering. You can try, but you`re just going to get the roar of the SUV engine. I want to talk with David Cook. He is Fred
Goldman`s attorney. While O.J. can drive away, he can run, but he can`t hide, I think, is how you would look at it.
You have been a busy man including on Tuesday filing a restraining order to make sure that any money O.J. might get for pay-to-play interviews, you
will know all about it. What else you have been up to?
DAVID COOK, ATTORNEY FOR FRED GOLDMAN: Well, I tried to get the restraining order and the judge turned me down. He said, when you bring an opportunity
there, we`ll look at it again. But I`m getting anonymous calls. That`s what I`ve been receiving in the last few days. I`ve been following the news
obviously --
BANFIELD: What do they say? What are people saying?
COOK: Well, they`re saying, you might look here and you might look there. God forbid, you might find something.
BANFIELD: Wow.
COOK: I`m getting a fair number of these calls that the public is coming out. The public has an interest --
BANFIELD: What about the photos that TMZ printed, David? The photos of the (INAUDIBLE) University -- I mean, check this out. He`s signing autographs.
He`s probably autographing -- and it`s in a private room which, of course, makes you think if it`s a private room and Buffalo Bulls and USC, those
would be worth something. If he got money for this, how long does he have before he needs to tell his parole officer?
COOK: Well, that`s between him and the parole officer. He has to of course report it like everybody does and pay taxes on it. But we looked at that
and he did not organize that himself. He had somebody organized that for him. And either he was paid in cash or alternatively he`s paid by the
[20:55:00] person who organized it. So, there`s money to be had. There`s an entire culture of sports memorabilia.
BANFIELD: Yes, I know.
COOK: And people pay a lot of money.
BANFIELD: That`s how he ended up in prison nine years ago in a hotel room in Vegas with memorabilia. That`s why I`m so stunned to see these pictures.
I think my question really, though, David, is this. We`ve been talking to you and the Goldmans for a long time about chasing down the $33 million
judgment which now could be anywhere upwards of 100 million with interest.
However, that`s something he could skirt if he wanted to and wouldn`t land him behind bars, but parole is another thing. He has to report his income.
So if he doesn`t because he wants to skirt you and he`s caught, it means he goes back to the big house. That must be somewhat satisfying for you and
your clients.
COOK: As we say it`s karmic justice, if that`s anything. He went to prison originally nine years ago because he was trying to reach the sports
memorabilia that we were trying to reach at the time. So there`s more than just some karmic justice here. If that`s the way he wants it, ends up going
back to jail, he`s going to go back to jail.
BANFIELD: You have your work cut out for you, but you do have a little bit of help from the parole officers now, I would think. David Cook, thank you
for your time. Thank you for being on tonight.
COOK: You`re very welcome.
BANFIELD: I appreciate it. And thank you, everyone.
COOK: Thank you for the opportunity.
BANFIELD: And thanks, everyone, for watching. It`s been good to have you here with us. We`ll see you back here Monday night at 8:00 for "Primetime
Justice." In the meantime, stay tuned, "Forensic Files" begins right after this quick break.
[21:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
