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Freed Taliban Hostages; Trump Signs Executive Order; Puerto Rico Suffers; Trump Says Aid Can't Stay Forever; Invoking the 25th Amendment; Odds Trump Finishes First Term. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 12, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with breaking news out of Pakistan where an American woman and her Canadian husband and all three of their children have been freed from the Taliban.

But moments ago, we have just learned that the husband, Joshua Boyle, is refusing, at least for now, to leave Pakistan.

Our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr is joining us live from the Pentagon. Our CNN National Security Analyst Peter Bergen is here in the studio with us.

Barbara, tell us why the husband, Joshua Boyle, is now refusing to board an American plane.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, this has been going on for several hours now, according to a number of officials we are talking to. They were, basically, rescued, if you will, by Pakistani authorities overnight when the U.S. spotted something -- cars on the move, believed it was the family, that they were being moved from one location to another.

The Pakistanis then moved in and said -- called the U.S. and said, we're good. We have them. They had all five. The American woman Caitlin Coleman, the husband, Canadian Joshua Boyle, and three small children born while they were in captivity.

But it rapidly developed that the husband, a Canadian citizen, declined to board an American military C-130 aircraft that had flown into Pakistan to take them out of there.

We are getting some indications that the husband may want to be returned to Canada. That he is nervous about coming back to the United States. That he has a reason to think he could face U.S. law enforcement.

This is a man that was previously married to a woman who was part of a Canadian family that did have ties to terrorism. We are not saying that woman did, but it is a family well-known to Canadian and U.S. law enforcement.

We do not know, to be absolutely clear if that is the precise reason that he has declined to board this plane to the United States. But where we are now is several hours after this, at this hour, our understanding is all five family members do remain in Pakistan -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Tell us about the operation that resulted in their freedom.

STARR: Well, let me start by saying that the first hint of this came actually last night when President Trump was speaking and hinted that there would be very good news that a country that, in his words, had disrespected the United States, had phoned up and said they had very good news to report.

And then, today, the president, once again, thanked Pakistan for carrying this mission out. Let's listen to what the president had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to thank the Pakistani government. I want to thank Pakistan. They worked very hard on this. And I believe they're starting to respect the United States again. It's very important. I think a lot of -- right now, a lot of countries are starting to respect the United States of America once again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Let's be clear. The Trump administration is pressuring Pakistan to take more personality for maintaining security and going after these terror networks.

I will tell you that a lot of U.S. officials still say, you know, show me. They want to see more evidence that Pakistan is really committed to this.

This mission is very unique. The U.S. noticed something. U.S. intelligence had some monitoring and surveillance in this border region between Afghanistan and Pakistan. They noticed cars, vehicles on the move. Called up the Pakistanis.

The U.S., by all accounts, was already thinking about how to mount a rescue operation of its own, believing, at that time last night, that this was the family they'd been looking for for five years.

But by the time that had passed and they were talking about it, suddenly, the Pakistanis called up and said, we have them. We have all five of them. Not clear, at this hour, Wolf, when the Pakistanis moved in, into this mobile target. Moving on a road, presumably, not a house, not a compound. Not clear what the Pakistanis actually did or said to those who were holding them. But they did get all five back -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It's important that they are now freed. They're on the ground in Pakistan, these five people, the American wife, the Canadian husband and their three kids who were born in captivity.

Peter Bergen, you've been doing some reporting on this as well. Do we know, first of all, if the Haqqani network or the Taliban received anything in exchange for the release of these five individuals?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: There's no evidence of that. They have been looking for the release of a senior member of the Haqqani family who's in custody in Afghanistan. That was one of the demands that they made.

[13:05:03] The African government was not going to do that. There's no evidence that that happened. So, this looks like purely a rescue operation.

BLITZER: A sophisticated military rescue operation by the Pakistani military with the assistance of U.S. intelligence, is that right?

BERGEN: Yes. I'd caveat that a little bit. From the Pakistani official that I have spoken to, the people who actually did the raid were intelligence agents.

BLITZER: Pakistani intelligence.

BERGEN: Pakistani intelligence. And we -- it may not -- we don't know exactly what it looked like, but it was on, it looks like vehicles because they were transferring the hostages from one place to another.

There was Pakistani military, sort of, on the perimeter is the way they described it. That -- more than that, we don't really know. But a Pakistan -- clearly, a Pakistani operation.

BLITZER: A very strong statement from the president, welcoming this development. The secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, also issuing a strong statement. Both thanking the government of Pakistan.

But a surprising twist now. The Canadian husband, Joshua Boyle, refusing to board the C-130, this American plane. What do you make of that?

BERGEN: Well, this family just spent five years in custody. They have three children in captivity. You know, they had, obviously, no idea that this was going to happen.

So, I can't speak to his state of mind. I can just only observe that if anybody spent five years in Taliban custody, they're going to have strange reactions.

BLITZER: Yes, I'm sure that's totally understandable. Five years in custody will have an impact on individuals.

The president says this is happening now because of what he is doing. It wasn't happening in the previous administration. Clearly, the Obama administration tried to get this American woman and her family out of Pakistan. It didn't work out.

What do you make of the president's assertion that things -- that there's greater respect now, by the Pakistanis, for the United States?

BERGEN: It's hard to measure that. I mean, a lot of people in the U.S. government, in the Obama administration, some of them held over onto the Trump administration, have been working 24 hours a day for this outcome.

So, you know, there's a hostage fusion cell inside the U.S. government that's made up of the FBI and the State Department and other officials. They worked on this thing all the time. It doesn't matter who the president is. And, obviously, this is a great outcome.

Sunday, President Trump was -- you know, put pressure on Pakistan to, sort of, do more. So, maybe that had an effect. But I wouldn't discount the fact that the American intelligence and FBI and the State Department have been working on this for a long time.

BLITZER: Yes. And the good news is they are out of captivity right now. Caitlin Coleman, the American woman, Joshua Boyle, her Canadian husband, and three little kids are free. They're in Pakistan and we'll see what happens over the next few hours. If they stay there. If they board a plane to the United States or Canada or maybe someplace else or just stay in Pakistan, for the time being.

We'll update our viewers as we get more information. Peter Bergen, Barbara Starr, guys, thank you very much.

Other important news we're following here in Washington. President Trump has signed an executive order to begin dismantling some major parts of Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act.

The order follows failed attempts by Republicans to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act through legislation. The Trump administration says the goal is to increase competition and choice in order to lower health care for Americans. Critics say the order could destabilize the entire existing law.

Our White House Correspondent Sara Murray is joining us now with more. Sara, explain what this new executive order just signed by the president will do.

SARA MURRAY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, obviously, as you pointed out, the President tried to overhaul Obamacare through Congress. That effort failed multiple times. So now, he is trying to do it unilaterally as an executive order.

Part of what he wants to do is have government agencies study how to make it easier for small businesses, maybe even individuals, to buy their own health care, potentially across state lines.

He also wants to make it possible for people to buy shorter-term plans. Plans that would potentially be cheaper, but also wouldn't include many of those Obamacare protections for preexisting conditions that have been very popular with much of the public.

And, last but not least, he wants to make it easier for some employers to be able to offer workers money to be able to purchase their own policies. From the Trump administration's perspective, they are trying to offer more flexibility, different sizes to small businesses to individuals, to get different kinds of plans. And they hope draw more insurers into some of the markets that they've pulled out of.

BLITZER: Critics, Sara, say the new plans released by the president will appeal to younger, healthier individuals, while people with more serious conditions will end up paying a lot more. How does the White House respond to that?

MURRAY: Well, that's right, Wolf. The concern is that the people that you end up having left in these Obamacare exchanges are all older. They're all sicker. And their premiums will skyrocket.

The Trump administration's belief is that, ultimately, these new changes, these new plans will increase competition. They will drive down prices.

But the other thing you have to remember is this is not an administration that's particularly concerned about setting Obamacare even further off kilter. The president has hinted, at a number of occasions, that he's willing to let it go down in flames as a way to prompt Congress to make a more comprehensive fix. So, this could be another component of that -- Wolf.

[13:10:05] BLITZER: All right, Sara, thank you. An important day at the White House. Sara Murray reporting for us.

Other news. Puerto Rico now still very much suffering, nearly three weeks after being slammed by Hurricane Maria. The majority of the island still has no power and many still don't have drinkable water. The death toll, clearly, is rising.

And now, on top of this, the president, President Trump, is threatening to take away federal assistance. In a series of tweets today, the president said the island's electric and all of its infrastructure was a disaster even before the hurricane. Congress decided how much to spend. The government's emergency responders, he says, can't stay there forever.

But one of his cabinet members struck a different tone during a hearing up on Capitol Hill just a little while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON (R), U.S. SECRETARY, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT: Well, first of all, as I was saying, Puerto Rico is a very important part of our culture. And as a result of that, I would not abandon them (ph).

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D), CALIFORNIA: No. I know it's important. But I want to know whether or not you agree with the president, who's threatening to abandon Puerto Rico recovery efforts.

CARSON: I think I just said, I have no intention of abandoning Puerto Rico. They are a very important part of who we are.

WATERS: So, you don't agree with the president? He tweeted, electric and all infrastructure was a disaster before the hurricanes. He sought to shame the territory for its own plight. Do you share that opinion? CARSON: I think that our job is to make sure that we take care of the disaster that has occurred.

WATERS: So, you don't agree it should be abandoned, is that right?

CARSON: Of course, it should not be abandoned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A lawmaker did hit Ben Carson on the president's tweets. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NYDIA VELAZQUEZ (D), NEW YORK: Those tweets are unpresidential. The most basic fundamental responsibility of the president of the United States, the president of the most powerful country in the world, is to show up and make and provide the assistance and the relief that American citizens need. They don't need this type of insult. So, to kick fellow citizens when they are down is shameful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let me read the tweets that the president posted earlier this morning. Puerto Rico survived the hurricanes. Now, a financial crisis looms largely of their own making, says Sharyl Attkisson (ph), a total lack of accountability by, say, (ph) the governor. Electric and all infrastructure was disaster before hurricanes. Congress to decide how much to spend. And here is the major part. We cannot keep FEMA, the military and first responders, who have been amazing under the most difficult circumstances in Puerto Rico forever.

Let's go to CNN Correspondent Layla Santiago. She's joining us now from San Juan. Layla, the mayor there, clearly, have been very outspoken about the federal response, the president's response.

How is she, right now, the mayor of San Juan, responding to these latest Trump tweets?

LAYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, within minutes of Trump's tweets, we were actually on the phone with the mayor, Yulin, the mayor of San Juan, the capital here in Puerto Rico. And she was angry, Wolf. She was angry.

She quickly said that she was offended. She said that he -- she said that the president was not fit to be president, to be the leader of the U.S. citizens, including those on this island.

And I want to read to you part of this statement that she put out. She says, your tweets and comments just show desperation and underscore the inadequacy of your government's response to this humanitarian crisis. It is not that you do not get it. It is that you are incapable of empathy and, frankly, simply cannot get the job done.

She has been very critical of the federal government's response. I've got to tell you, also just in the last hour, we are now hearing from the governor of Puerto Rico for the first time on this. He is saying that he has reached out to the White House, trying to get clarification from President Trump's tweets, trying to understand exactly what did he mean when he says FEMA aid cannot stay in Puerto Rico forever.

But let me tell you, as the president is tweeting these statements out, we have been out and about outside of San Juan, outside of the area where President Trump visited when he came.

And what we are seeing is that much of this aid is not getting to the homes, or enough of the aid is not getting to the homes of those most vulnerable. Those in areas still cutoff. Not just by communication but by access. Communities that haven't -- that have people who don't have the medicine they need. That don't have the water.

[13:15:00] A third of this island without water right now. More than 80 percent without power right now. The hospitals -- doctors at hospitals with patients who have had to be -- who have had to be evacuated because the generator failed, telling us that they don't have what they need to care for patients on this island. This island of 3.5 U.S. citizens with the president now threatening to possibly cut off aid after one of the worst disasters in this island's history.

Wolf.

BLITZER: And 3.5 million U.S. citizens on the island of Puerto Rico right now. And it's unclear why the president decided to issue these three tweets on Puerto Rico earlier this morning. We're working our sources in the White House, trying to get an explanation of why he decided to say right now, at this critical moment, less than three weeks after this hurricane devastated so much of Puerto Rico, we cannot keep FEMA, the military and the first responder, who have been amazing under the most difficult circumstances, in Puerto Rico forever. We're trying to get some more clarification on that and we hopefully will.

Leyla Santiago doing an amazing job for us in Puerto Rico. Leyla, thank you very much.

Would the president's cabinet ever -- ever try to oust him by invoking the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution? One of the president's former advisers says there's a really good chance of that happening. We'll discuss.

Plus, a Republican senator, not a Democrat, a Republican senator now questioning the president's commitment to his oath of office after his attacks on the First Amendment.

And two major events only moments away from now. Homeland Security getting ready to hold a news conference in Puerto Rico. That should be interesting.

And the White House getting ready to hold another press briefing. We will have coverage of both. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:55] BLITZER: A Republican senator is questioning President Trump's commitment to his oath of office. In response to the president's repeated attacks on news organizations, Nebraska Senator Ben Sasse tweeted this, Mr. President, are you recanting the oath you took on January 20th to preserve, protect, and defend the First Amendment to the Constitution?

And Senator Sasse isn't alone in raising serious questions about the Trump presidency. A source tells "Vanity Fair" magazine that former chief strategist Steve Bannon thinks the president only has a 30 percent chance of completing his first full term. According to "Vanity Fair," Bannon told Trump that the risk of his presidency wasn't impeachment, but the 25th Amendment, the provision by which a majority of the cabinet can vote to remove the president. When Bannon mentioned the 25th Amendment, Trump said, what's that, closed quote.

Our justice correspondent, Jessica Schneider, is joining us now with more on the amendment, what it says.

Tell our viewers who aren't familiar with the 25th Amendment, Jessica, precisely what it does.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, Wolf, some of the confusion might actually stem from the fact that the section four of the 25th Amendment, it has actually never been invoked. It lays out the path for removal of the president in cases of, quote, inability. And that's a term that has never been defined or tested.

So here's what exactly would need to happen to set the 25th Amendment in motion. Now it starts with the vice president and a majority of the 24 cabinet members. They would have to submit a written declaration to the leaders in the House and the Senate that the, quote, president is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. That's the first step.

Now, if that were to happen, the vice president would immediately assume the presidency. The president then could object in writing that no inability exists. He would have to submit that to the leaders as well of the House and Senate.

Now, of course, that is unless the vice president and the majority of the cabinet then, in turn, persist. They would have to resubmit their declaration within four days that the president is still, at that point, unable to perform his duties.

Then the final step. It would be up to Congress to decide within 21 days. They would have to determine by two-thirds vote in both houses if the president is unable to continue in office. Now, if that two- thirds vote is that the president is, in fact, unfit, that's when the vice president would welcome acting president.

But as you can see from all of this, this is a long and arduous process with vast political implications. And really what it comes down to is that a majority of Republicans, both in the cabinet and in Congress, they would have to openly reject the president and begin a movement to oust him.

And, of course, Wolf, while we've seen a couple of Republicans so far speak out publicly about their concerns, it is a long way from all of these political forces joining together to remove the president in this long process. Of course, something that has never happened.

Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Jessica. Jessica Schneider. A good explanation. Thanks very much.

Let's get some perspective on all of this from our panel. We have CNN political analyst Julie Hirschfeld Davis, White House reporter for "The New York Times," CNN political analyst David Drucker, h's the senior congressional correspondent for "The Washington Examiner," and Shannon Pettypiece, White House reporter for "Bloomberg News."

Guys, thanks very much for joining us.

In that "Vanity Fair" article -- I think all of us have read it by now -- sources describe the president in that "Vanity Fair" article as unraveling, increasingly unfocused and consumed by dark moods.

So what's the likelihood -- I think it's pretty remote -- of that becoming the implementation of the 25th Amendment to the Constitution.

JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think you're right, we're pretty far from that. And as Jessica mentioned, that a very arduous and long process. But I think the point here is that the president is increasingly frustrated, he's increasingly feeling embittered, he's feeling like he's not breaking through, his agenda is not getting across. And what we are starting to hear is more Republicans say things like Senator Sasse said, tweet things like Senator Corker did and say things like he did about not just critics -- criticism of the president, but questioning really whether he is fit, whether he understands what he's doing and whether he is able to carry out those duties.

[13:25:13] And I think that, of course, is only adding to the cycle of frustration and isolation that the president is feeling inside the White House.

BLITZER: Yes, the senator, Bob Corker of Tennessee, David, he's the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. A very serious guy. He warned that president -- the president could take the country on the path to World War III, and that sparked this bitter exchange between him and the president. And the implication that some are suggesting, including this "Vanity Fair" article, that there's a lot of chaos going on inside the White House.

DAVID DRUCKER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. But what else is new. This has been the Trump administration from day one. I look -- look, first of all, I think we have to understand that invoking the 25th Amendment could do incalculable -- incalculable political damage to the democracy of the United States because when you short circuit a president's term that way, you're going to have a sizable amount of American voters that feel like they were mistreated and that things are not fair and not right.

I also think we need to understand that even though Trump's rhetoric is a little bit out there at times to say the least, there's still a difference between his sort of unmoored rhetoric and the provocations that he seems to engage in on Twitter, both domestically and overseas, and the policies that his foreign policy team are actually engaged in on the ground, the domestic policies that his administration are engaged in on the ground. He really has not tried to undo any of our institutions. And, from a foreign policy perspective between Mattis and McMaster and Tillerson, they have been involved in the same sorts of negotiations that previous Republican presidents and Democratic presidents have been involved in.

Finally what I would say is that the president seems to go through these ebbs and flows, right, where one minute for about a week or so he appears like a normal president doing presidential things, acting normally, and then he has a big blowup and h is unhappy for weeks and everybody's speculating about how long he can actually stand this, and then things go back to normal for him. I think we're going to see this as a part of his presidency. We saw it in his campaign. A lot of chaos, a lot of eventful rhetoric, but not necessarily followed through with scary, scary policy.

BLITZER: The -- you know, Steve Bannon, as you know, Shannon, a very controversial guy, but very smart. He was the strategic -- top strategic adviser to the president. In this "Vanity Fair" article, he's reportedly suggesting, according to some sources, that there's a 30 percent chance of the president not making it through his first four years -- his first four year term and citing the 25th Amendment, not impeachment. What do you make of that?

SHANNON PETTYPIECE, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, "BLOOMBERG NEWS": Well, those are the odds that some gave him to winning the presidency. You remember when people said there was about a 30 percent chance that he would even become president. And he defied those odds and did become president. So Trump is one to defy odds. And -- but at the same time, I think anything is possible. I know there's some people speculated he won't run for re-election. I don't necessarily buy into that argument yet because I -- I think he is someone who is not a quitter, who will, you know, go down fighting until the end, which is kind of what we saw from him through that entire e campaign. So, you know, I -- I guess I'm still in the camp of another three years of the Trump presidency and possibly another seven.

BLITZER: I'm sure a lot of these questions are going to be raised at the White House briefing, which is expected to begin momentarily. We're going to have live coverage of that.

Let's take a quick break, get ready for the White House briefing right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)