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QUEST MEANS BUSINESS
Amazon Pulled Into Weinstein Scandal; Dijsselbloem Stepping Down As Eurogroup President; EU Says Brexit Talks With UK Are In Deadlock; Loud Criticism As Trump Decertifies Iran Deal; Zuma Faces Corruption Charges; Pokemon Used In Russia's Election Meddling. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired October 13, 2017 - 16:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICHARD QUEST: Closing bell ringing on the Wall Street, no record on the Dow Jones. Records made NASDAQ, the S&P (ph) doesn't have a record, so it
a quietish day. The hammer - look at that, it's bound to get stronger. And the third hammer, just as well. Three hammers and all is done. Today
is Friday, the 13th of October. Tonight, Donald Trump piles new sanctions on Iran, as Europe scrambles to save its deals.
Hammers are (ph) now getting pulled into the Hollywood harassment scandal. And South Africa's finance minister will be with me, live here at the IMF
in Washington, as the president faces corruption charges once again. So now, live, from the IMF, annual meetings in Washington, lm Richard Quest,
where, of course, I'm mean business.
So, Friday, the last day of the annual meetings - or the big meetings just taking place, and what you see as you look down, you see the various
ministers coming away from the IMF seat (ph) meeting. A warm welcome to the IMF in Washington where the meetings have been taking place, both at
G20 level and this -- this large number of people, walking out now from the international monetary and finance committee, which is the steering
But we being tonight with President Trump, which -- who has kicked Iran's nuclear agreement to the U.S. Congress. And in doing so, putting a series
of corporate deals in jeopardy. The commander-in-chief of the United States says that America will decertify, the international agreement with
Iran while announcing new sanctions against the Iranian revolutionary guard.
Mr. Trump warned, he will withdraw from the nuclear agreement entirely if Congress and Washington's allies do not strengthen that agreement. As the
president left the White House , he blamed the Obama administration| for throwing a lifeline to an Iranian regime that Trump says was on the verge
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We will see what happens with Iran. We're very unhappy with Iran. They have not treated us with the kind of respect that
they should be treating. They should have thanked Barack Obama for making that deal. They were gone. They were economically gone. He infused $100
to $150 billion into their economy. He gave them $1.7 billion in cash and they should be (ph), thank you, president Obama. They didn't say that.
QUEST: President Trump leaving the White House. Michelle Kosinski, CNN's senior diplomatic correspondent. She is in Washington for us tonight.
Michelle, I was reading the interesting reports on what happened and the way it happened. As I understand it, the decertification doesn't pull them
out the Iran deal. It merely gives Congress the opportunity to re-impose sanctions. So at what point would the participation in the JCPOA deal
actually be called into question?
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's still unclear. I mean, you would think that if Congress, for whatever reason, suddenly decided, either
now or down the road, if they install -- you know, they're going to tinker with this bill that only affects the U.S. it -- you know, the certification
doesn't -- as you said, it doesn't take the U.S. out of the Iran deal. This certification was just something that the Congress made the White
House do every 90 days to assure Congress that Iran was in keeping with this.
So, if Congress decided to re-impose sanctions that were lifted as part of the Iran deal, then the U.S. Would not be in compliance with the deal and
the deal will -- would be done. I mean, the U.S. Would be out of it. But there's also possibility that if congress imposes new sanctions that Iran
felt were not in keeping with, you know -- as President Trump often says, the spirit of the deal, then it's possible that Iran could leave the deal.
In fact, Iran has in the past, not that long ago, threatened to leave the deal and said they could leave the deal within hours if Congress imposed
more sanctions. So on the one hand, you know, Richard, you could say that today you saw President Trump being all bark and no bite. He gets up
there, he calls Iran murderous, and sinister. He says all those things against Iran's legitimately bad activity, but we're still in the Iran
On the other hand though, there are all these question marks about, first of all, what Congress will even do, and if they do take action, in a
sanctions department, then what does that do not only for, sort of the outlines of the deal itself, but the relationship and the influence that
the U.S. has with its allies and other countries around the world.
QUEST: Let's take that aspect of it, Michelle. Already, the high representative for the European Union has - Maria (ph) has said that, look,
this isn't a U.S. deal, it's an international deal which has got international backing from the United Nations. So once again, the waters
are muddied between president, Congress and the JCPOA's other members.
KOSINSKI: Yeah. I mean, that's the perfect way it. Because just trying to -- trying to explain what this means kind of makes your head explode. I
mean, the White House is trying to say, no, no, no, no. We are not leaving the deal, we are just tinkering with this law that's really about
communications between the White House and Congress but, you know, if Congress then moves sanctions around, or installs triggers, like if Iran
does X, maybe with its ballistic missile program, maybe having nothing to do with the nuclear deal, a then imposes, more sanctions, nobody really
knows how Iran is going to react to that.
And you have -- you do have other European countries that were a party to the deal, saying, well, we have real concerns about what the U.S. is trying
-- as much as the U.S. is trying to insulate this, you know, other parties to the deal are saying, we are really concerned about this, we're concerned
about the possible implications.
QUEST: All right. Michelle Kosinski at the state department, thank you very much indeed.
Now the deal as mentioned is formerly called the joint comprehensive plan of action. That's what we just talked about, the JPC - the JCPOA. And
when you look at it and its ambitions, at the end of the day, you have to accept, as President trump said, it will be business that will be forcing
the issue for the United States to stay within that agreement.
TRUMP: They would love me to stay in, only or one reason, look at the kind of money that's being said. You know, Iran is spending money in various
countries, and I've always said it, and I say to them, don't do anything, don't worry about it. Take all the money you can get. They're all friends
Actually -- actually, Emmanuel called up and he talked to me, and I said, look, Emmanuel, they just gave Renault a lot of money. Take their money,
enjoy yourselves, but we'll see what happens. Iran has to behave much differently.
QUEST: Now, let's look at those companies that stand to benefit, or indeed have benefitted so far indeed. You've got Boeing, Airbus, both of whom who
have sol large numbers of new aircraft. Total (ph), and the look (ph) oil gas from Volkswagen. You can see the list there. All of which have moved
in very rapidly on the back of the - the United Nations agreed deal.
So Fred Pleitgen, in Tehran joins me now. On the business side of it, already we've heard from the Iranian president saying that it would be
wrong and illegal to pull out. But at the end of the day, business has already been started between Iran and the rest of the trading world.
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, you're absolutely right, Richard. Business has been started, but business has been, I would say a little bit
slower than many people who wanted this deal would have hoped for. You certainly have those sectors that you were talking about, the automotive
sector and especially the oil and gas sector.
and I've been to the oil and gas installations that the Iranians have down in the south of the country, and those really are booming and have made a
difference to the economy really hasn't trickled down that much to ordinary Iranians, and so there are still many of hardliners in this country and we
certainly did hear from them as well who have been very critical of this agreement, saying it hasn't brought the economic benefits many Iranians
would have wanted.
However, people like Hassan Rouhani, the moderate president of this country, he says, well that is still going to come. Of course, all of it
is going to be slow-going at the beginning. So lot of moderates really have high hopes in this agreement, and some of the ones we talked to today
were very, very disappointed at some of the things they predicted, President Trump would say.
And so that's one of the reasons why I think you saw so much anger from Hassan Rouhani and why you're seeing this reaction. Certainly the Iranians
have said -- Hassan Rouhani said in his speech, the Iranians are going to stay in the nuclear agreement as long as all other sides abide by it.
However, they also say that if there sanctions, like the ones that you and Michelle were talking about before, that then that would spell the end of
the deal and the Iranians would resume their nuclear program without restrictions they say.
QUEST: How much and, obviously, I know you'll be dealing with the politics and the geo-strategic influence elsewhere with other colleagues. But on
the business and economy front, how much of this deal was important for Iran when you think that President Trump specifically said that the
economy, the regime, was on the verge of collapse before this deal was done?
And we -- we lost the shot, guys, as you can see there from Fred Pleitgen in Teran (ph). If we got it back in this in short order, we will return to
Fred just for a few there, live television. These things happen, no need to get excited about it.
It was touch and go in the last seconds of trading on Wall Street where the Dow rose 31 points and it's in a short of a new record but to some
questioning about whether it was a directed or not in those final seconds. The NASDAQ did close at the record and all three indices are up slightly.
The tech stocks were amongst the best performance of today. Health insurance and hospital shares fell very shortly and that's not surprisingly
after Donald Trump announce the end of Obamacare subsidy payments.
And so, to the ever growing allegations of sexual harassment in Hollywood that are now reaching beyond the Weinstein Company and then to the top
levels of Amazon. The head of Amazon studios, Roy Price, has been placed on leave of absence. He is accused of making obscene comments to a TV
producer. It's emerged to Amazon also as a part to play in the Weinstein scandal.
Apparently, the actress Rose McGowan says Weinsten raped her and she directed a tweet of the Chief Executive of Amazon, Jeff Bezos. She claims
she told about the head of the Amazon Studios about the allegation of rape but Bezos or indeed Amazon, if you didn't even see it, ignored her.
Weinstein through a representative has maintained a position saying he's never been involved in non-consensual sex. As for Amazon, it said it
reviewing its projects. It's working with the Weinstein Company.
Brian Stelter is following this story. Brian, give me an assessment please of how this is widening? How this story is just mushrooming?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Amazon and Weinstein Company are linked because Amazon had commissioned a couple of new TV
series from the Weinstein Company.
Now, Amazon says it's reviewing its options. That's called Richard for we want to back out of this deal, we need to figure out how to do it. But you
see Rose McGowan tweeting to Jeff Bezos because she knew about Roy Price. She knew about the harassment allegation against Roy Price. This have been
a kind of secret for two years, it was reported two months ago, nobody seem to take it very seriously two months ago but now the woman accusing Roy
Price of harassment is speaking on the record in a detailed interview with the Hollywood reporter. That's what called the Amazon to put him on leave
QUEST: All right, that's the situation so far.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From your understanding, how many more allegations either about Weinstein or about Amazon or indeed elsewhere this may go. I
mean are we watching a dam about to break with multiple allegations against many different Hollywood executives?
STELTER: I think we're definitely seeing soul searching. I don't want to go so far as today. We're going to see a lot more claims about other
executives in Hollywood but we are seeing soul searching. The Board of Governors that runs the Oscar's is going to meet tomorrow and consider
expelling Weinstein from the academy. That's an example of soul searching.
Just in the past few minutes, we have no information about what's going to happen to Weinstein's company. You know, this is the company behind
Project Runway and lots of big movies. It is crumbling before our eyes right now. The Wall Street Journal is reporting right now that there may
be a sale or a collapse of the company, essentially they're describing the shut down of the company. Bob Weinstein, Harvey's brother just came out
and said, that's not true, we are not exploring the sale. And he said in his statement, "Business is continuing as usual as the company moves
Richard, that is just not true. Business is not and it is not usual at the Weinstein Company. It is a crippled paralyzed company with some executives
considering resigning. But Bob Weinstein is claiming things are moving ahead, they got movies to release et cetera, et cetera.
I think we are going to see some changes of the Weinstein Company but we don't know exactly in what shape yet. This is the Wall Street Journal
reporting that sale is possible.
[16:15:05] QUEST: You know, here in the IMF and World Bank, gender and issues of gender, gender equality are always on the agenda and certainly in
terms of the rise of women to higher ranks. So I ask -- and their always looking for solutions, they're always wanting to know and look at ways
But when you get something like this, Brian, surely from you're hearing what measures, what new suggestions are people talking about that will
prevent repetition of this systemic and somewhat say endemic (ph) behavior?
STELTER: There are some basic measures like improve human resources departments, that was actually something that came up in the week of Fox
News scandal last year, improving the H.R. mechanisms so women have ability to go and report harassment or assault, and know it will be taken
seriously. There also needs to be discussion on Police Departments at the NYPD which did not -- that was not able to charge Weinstein two years ago.
But then, there's a broader, a broader issue about how agents and executives worked with women especially young women. And rather than treat
them as vulnerable, respect them and support them.
And that is not -- there's not an easy fix, there's no patch, there's no band aid for that. That's a long-term issue for the industry.
QUEST: Brian Stelter, thank you sir. We have our sources is, this weekend, and we look forward to that. Thank you, sir, as always.
As we continue tonight after the break. Philip Hammond, the British Chancellor of the Exchequer says, he shouldn't have called the EU Brexit
negotiations, the enemy. I've got the reaction from the outgoing Eurogroup President Jeroen Dijsselbloem, after the break.
QUEST: Welcome back, its Quest X, no it's not Quest X, it's Quest Means Business. I think I know that you always say (ph), quite overcome by the
whole presence of being the annual meetings of IMF and World Bank, also it's a Friday anybody is gossiping that way to the weekend. Have you heard
the one of our -- The Political and Economic Union that walked into a bar. Jean-Claude Juncker tried out a new analogy and looks about today when he
was asked about the current state of Brexit talks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN-CLAUDE JUNCKER, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: If you are sitting in a bar, and if you are ordering 28 beers. And then suddenly some of your
colleagues is leaving and say, and he's not paying, that is not feasible. They have to pay. They have to pay. Not in an impossible way. I'm not in
a revenge mood. I am not hating the British. The Europeans have to be grateful for so many things Britain has brought to Europe -- during war,
after war, before war, everywhere and every time. But now they have to pay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:20:00] QUEST: They have to pay, that's not surprising. But that's what about to choose as the torque's face deadlock. The UK Chancellor,
Philip Hammond, has called the EU negotiators "the enemy" in an interview. Philip Hammond later apologized saying it was a poor choice of words. So,
"the enemy", I put those words to the outgoing president of the Eurogroup.
JEROEN DIJSSELBLOEM, PRESIDENT OF THE EURO GROUP: We all have these moments where we use words we rather hasn't. So, let's not make it too big
thing out of it. So, I think the Chancellor has been one of the reasonable forces in the UK and that's how I see him. And I think we have joined
interest to get the process, to get the negotiations going. The clock is ticking.
QUEST: The Commissioner Michel Barnier is at negotiations. But you're aware of the state to play as President of Eurogroup, how (bulge) down all
day on this three areas that have to be dealt with before the transitional phase can move on?
DIJSSELBLOEM: Well I'm certainly not going to negotiate through you even though I talked you very much. I won't do any negotiations here. And
Michel Barnier has been very clear that things are extremely difficult. And there is a threat of getting stuck, but I don't think we can be
complacent. We can't accept that. Both sides need to realize what the risks are. The UK stands to lose massively of course if there's no
solution in good time. So, let's keep pushing for that.
QUEST: Would you advocate now that the European side and your own national economy needs to start to planning for no agreements. There's much debate
in the UK over the last week over the possibility of no agreement. And Theresa May said obviously, they're planning for that. Are you?
DIJSSELBLOEM: No, we're not planning for it. And I keep saying that there is still time. There is still the opportunity and the great sense of
urgencies to get that deal. And I think we should push for it. But I fully understand that the UK is preparing for it, for the impact, the
economic impacts of such a no deal situation will be quite devastating for the UK. So, I think it's quite obvious why they are preparing.
QUEST: So Wolfgang Schaeuble is off, has gone to become speaker, and you're leaving as well? Why are you off? Why did you decide it its all
DIJSSELBLOEM: Well, in The Netherlands we've dramatically lost the elections. My partner is socio democrats, and for me the consequences of
that is that I will leave Dutch Politics. The next government will come in two weeks time, and I'll complete my term, five year term has Minister of
Finance. I also want to complete my mandates as chair of the Eurogroup and that runs a little longer until mid-January. And the road is open for me.
This is political life, sometimes you need to draw conclusions from the facts. And the facts will delivers by the tax process.
QUEST: Do you think that sometimes people like me do not appreciate that fact. I mean, we sort of see you come, see you go in the University in
term of that. We sort of watched the political environment. We do so sometime skepticism, something with cynicism, but we don't actually
appreciate that it's pretty brutal life as a politician.
DIJSSELBLOEM: Well, I don't agree. I mean, you do your jobs. We don't -- your job is not to be sympathetic to our --
QUEST: Oh, I'm not, I'm not
DIJSSELBLOEM: -- to our political line.
QUEST: Don't worry, don't worry.
DIJSSELBLOEM: So, I would not going to view.
DIJSSELBLOEM: No, I think, you know, in the economic terms we've done a huge job in the Eurozone and also in my country we are such better state
than we were five years ago. In political terms, I have not been successful in my country. That's a hard fact or the fact that I have to
face up too.
QUEST: Thank you, sir. I wish you well in your next endeavor. Thank you. And all you can do, you know.
QUEST: And you wouldn't tell me anything?
DIJSSELBLOEM: Any vacancies?
QUEST: Well, just look at the camera and read the next words in the script. And then, you can give me a run from underneath.
DIJSSELBLOEM: But there is no other script.
QUEST: Exactly. Because why I'm doing it and you're not. Good luck.
Glad you have words on the script now on the screen, European shares finished the week close to the highest levels. As I know you all think
that we just sit here or stand here and read what's put in front of us. But it's the highest level, for nearly fours months, I can't even read
Just a narrow gain on the Dax, helps other shares of (inaudible) which is setting up assets ahead of its acquisition of Monsanto. And if we take a
look at these. So, you have two up and two down. Joining me now, Isabelle Mateos y Lago, the Chief Multi-Assets Strategist of BlackRock.
So, as we look at these IMS. We had showed no walking, we're warning of them in balances and things like that. We've had -- the managing director
warning, it's time to fix the leaky roof, is anybody listening?
[16:25:06] ISABELA MATEOS Y LAGO, BLACK ROCK'S CHIEF MULTI-ASSET STRATEGIST: I think so. I think people are listening because you can
think of this as a window of opportunity that finally people don't need to worry about firefighting. There are sort of peace in the atmosphere and
certainly in Europe at least, people are focusing now on the reforms that are needed to expand this period of recovery beyond just the cyclical
uptake. So, I think that's very positive.
QUEST: What sort of reforms are we talking about here?
MATEOS: So, we're talking about the reforms of the Eurozone Economic Governance. We're taking about how to reduce risks that still exist, how
to better share risk, how to have better --
QUEST: Well, and in that sort of area, the Germans have caused even for (inaudible) are not wanting too much of risks sharing, are they?
MATEOS: Well, they always said, they want to reduce risks before they're prepared to share their risk with others. So, they're saying, you know,
those countries that has some legacy vulnerability should address them before we can seriously talk about things like common deposit insurance.
And that's sensible from their standpoints. And frankly, everybody can use a bit of risk reductions and that's a lot easier to do when you have
QUEST: The United States, the issue of tax, the whole question of whether this tax reform package is going to have an affect. Now, that's a
political issue as much as anything else.
QUEST: But how much of the global economy or even the market world is resting on the possibility and the prospect of such package?
MATEOS: Frankly, not that much. I mean, the market is not pricing in any massive tax reform or tax cut. If it happens, it will be a boost, maybe a
short-term boost but no question, it will be a boost and it will have an implications in terms of higher interest rates in the United States,
probably higher dollar. So, that's how it affects the risk of the global economy.
QUEST: We can't -- we're seeing Wolfgang Schaeuble leave. We don't necessary know how it all thought, fits in together. And you just heard
Jeroen Dijsselbloem, he is off as well. So, who becomes the rock stars within the European finance minister is that sense? Who becomes the
leader? Is it Bruno Le Maire of France?
MATEOS: Well, it doesn't need to be a rock star --
QUEST: Like for example, who needs to be the leader?
MATEOS: Well, I think we've got two leaders, which are -- who are Angela Merkel, who just got a new mandate and starts off with 63 percent
popularity. And Emmanuel Macron, who also just has a new mandate, and I think we can count on both of them to try and lead this effort to
consolidate the Eurozone going forward.
QUEST: So, do you not see a potential area of disagreement between say, Macron with his recent speech on greater integration with the Czech, and
indeed the Dutch, all of them say, "Hang on, before we do more integration, let's get what we've done so far in digital single market analysis. Let's
get that finished first.
MATEOS: Well, there's always areas of disagreement and that's, you know, the Europeans are used to working out these disagreements and that's
working better when France and Germany are on the same page and want to work hard at moving forward. And I think Macron wants to move not just on
the economy but also on security, on digital market. So, it's not a bit -- there's a lot of overlap there. There are differences but there's a lot of
QUEST: Finally, how would you grade this IMF, 1-10?
MATEOS: One to 10? If I grade IMF, five. I'm an IMF alumni so I'm at this good. I'm surprised by the very upbeat mood of people here.
QUEST: Excellent. Well fill as a (inaudible). Good to see you. Thank you.
MATEOS: Thank you.
QUEST: As we continue tonight. European stock market is close before President Trump announced he would decertify the Iran deal. European
leaders are not happy with the president's actions. Their warnings and the consequences, we'll talk about that after the break.
[16:31:14] QUEST: Hello. I'm Richard Question, there's more Quest Means Business in just a moment.
When South Africa's Finance Minister will be here as President Jacod Zuma potentially faces corruption charges once again. And the chairman of one
of Russia's biggest banks, tells with the U.S. Congress is to blame for Moscow's bad relations with Washington.
As we continue with the IMF. This is CNN. And on this network, the news always comes first.
Iranian President Hassan Rouhani has fired back at Donald Trump after the U.S. president decided not to re-certify the international deal over Iran's
nuclear program. Mr. Rouhani says, his country will never vow to foreign oppression. But does Iran will stick with the deal as long as he serves
The head of Amazon Studious, Roy Price, has been suspended of allegations he made absence comments through a TV producer. It happened after the
Hollywood reported posted an article detailing the claims. The producer says she was inspired by women who came forward with claims around the film
executive Harvey Weinstein.
Ninety-one percent of Puerto Ricans were without power on Friday, and that's three weeks after Hurricane Maria hit. It's actually up of 83
percent on Thursday. Our authority attributed the -- increase in failure to the central system without giving specifics. Tens of thousands of
people are fleeing the island.
Kenyan's opposition leader, Raila Odinga, says he is open to running for president again if the election process is reformed. Odinga pulled out of
an election re-run set for later this month. Kenya's Supreme Court ordered the re-run after invalidating the results of an August vote which gave
victory to the incumbent president, Uhuru Kenyatta.
President Trump is going against some of America's strongest allies in his moves on the Iran deal. The UK, Germany, and France say I was stunned by
the nuclear deal with Iran and they are concerned about the implications of the president's actions. EU's foreign policy chief insisted the agreement
was working and delivering. Germany has won the tallying of the deal, will drive Europe closer to Russia and China who are also signatories to the
Martin Wolf is the man we need to talk about and to talk to. He's the Chief Economic Commentator of the Financial Times. Good to see you Martin.
MARTIN WOLF, Chief Economic Commentator, Financial Times: Pleasure with you, Richard.
QUEST: And so, the de-certification of the deal, you know, it (inaudible) the Congress. By itself it doesn't pull the U.S. out, but I suspect you
think that the deal is on very shaky ground?
WOLF: Well, it appears to be -- of course, I'm not an expert on the American legal processes. But this is an action that President Trump has
taken against the advice, so, I understand it, most informed Americans quite apart from its allies and it is going to raise very profound
questions about the reliability of America signature on such crucial deals. And it's possible that he (inaudible) a very profound way, so I think it is
a very significant act.
QUEST: It's a -- not significant, can it be contained here politically or does it invariably moving to an economics they are not just only for the
companies involved but the creation of greater instability. How would you gage that?
WOLF: It's very difficult to know where we're going to win that but it's a step in the dissolution of the western world and inevitably of the whole
institutional frameworks supported by the United States.
[16:35:07] It is pulling out of a massive deal which involved five other important countries, three of them its allies, and you can raise a profound
questions as the TPP pulled out it at the NAFTA negotiations now do about whether the U.S. is a reliable partner.
QUEST: To Donald Trump's comment or view that he said yesterday about Pakistan where he is talking about. It shows that the U.S is respected
once again in the world. That people are now talking with a new respect for this country. What would you say?
WOLF: Well, I would say that it is true. I wouldn't use the word respect. I would use the word fear because the American as we all know is the world
most powerful country. If it's no longer predictable of the rules govern and predict, and let's say, predictable by its own commitments then
everyone will be very frightened. And in my own view is that there's a back cloth of fear now in the international community among other countries
about where the U.S. is going to go. If you call that respect you can call it. I would just say it's fear.
QUEST: And yet, with that respect off there the market rises like a balloon. He infield balloon despite all we have North Korea, Iran, lot of
tax policy, immigration, the market still rises. To you -- does that seem to you to be conundrum?
WOLF: I don't really regard as conundrum. I follow these matters for about 45 years. And there are many times when you see the market doing
things that are bit puzzling. But, I think, the market is responding to something absolutely genuine. The economists are strong, they are growing,
we are recovering worldwide from the effects of the Great Recession of the great commodity price crash. It's all happening on the economy well.
There's nothing in the way of it.
And at the moment the market is saying, this is all bluff. This is all blaster. In the end, the Trump administration isn't going to change. And
I hope it's true, we don't yet know. It's a bet, and this bet will know what the answer on that by this over the next three or four years. But at
the moment, they're saying, it sound and fury signifying nothing. And I hope they're right.
QUEST: Now, I don't want to dwell on your 45 years, but you raised it. In 45 years of looking and watching these things, have you ever seen ending
quite like this?
WOLF: Well, that been terrible period of this array. I started here in the -- I'm watching here in Washington in the Nixon period, and that was
pretty sensational. So, I would say there was -- the Nixon shock in '71, there was the (inaudible) interest rate up evil which cause the death
price. Yes, we had lots of big questions in the past. It is a very tense period.
But I would say, direction of United States under Mr. Trump is a bigger worry. And probably then at any time since the Second World War, that
possible exception of the early -- of the Nixon years. So, I would say, yes, I've seen things a bit like this and that's why people are thinking
we'll pause. But you always wonder whether this time it's actually serious.
QUEST: And what we learn from 2008, '07-'08, the crisis is the integrated nature of the economy means the potential for domineers to flow if one goes
is much greater than it ever been.
WOLF: Well, I'm thinking and actually this being true from all the century. A big international crisis, political or economic, really big one
affects everyone in the world. We are all locked together unavoidably. And the U.S. is the biggest player in the world in every possible
dimension. So, the U.S. does things that are profoundly destabilizing, has happened with the great financial crisis, has happened in the Great
Depression back in the '30s, remember, long before the modern period.
Then everybody has this -- has to live with the consequences of that event.
QUEST: Martin, excellent to have you. Thank you, sir. Many more years of standing here with me please, both of us.
WOLF: I hope so.
QUEST: Remarkably joining me.
More 700 corruption charges potentially reinstated against the South African President. I'm going to be discussing with the country's Finance
Minister, Malusi Gigaba here at the IMF, exactly the nature of the economy in South Africa that he facing such extra ordinary political economic
[16:41:37] QUEST: South African president say he is disappointed by the Supreme Court decision to reinstate corruption charges against him. Jacob
Zuma is facing more than 700 charges relating to allegations he took bribes from a French arms company. South Africa's former Finance Minister Pravin
Gordhan told me last month on this program that Mr. Emerson step aside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PRAVIN GORDHAN, SOUTH AFRICA'S FORMER FINACE MINISTER: I think that South Africa requires a new leadership both in government and in the ANC that
would build on the potential of this country and ensure that we accomplish the economic and social goals that we have set for all 55 million people in
this country and that would be best served by the president stepping aside and a new leader taking over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: The latest IMF update on South Africa says political uncertainty is stopping the confidence of consumers and businesses. Growth will be
Look at the numbers, the IMF has its growth forecast for the next 3 years is 0.7 percent and 1.1 percent well below the source of growth. It's
expecting another part of Sub Saharan Africa.
With all that in mind, we're very grateful that Malusi Gigaba is the current finance minister joins me now. Minister, thank you, nice to have
Let's just start straight way with the hardest part of all that charges that are likely to be brought back, the corruption charges against the
president. This is very damaging for the South African economy.
MALUSI GIGABA, CURRENT FINANCE MINISTER OF SOUTH AFRICA: Well, it is quite containing. It raises the political risk but you look at it on the -- from
another end, it affirms the independence of all courts. The supremacy of the rule of law and the constitution as the supreme law, the land and it
says that South African judges and South African court are independent enough to take decisions about whomsoever regardless of social or political
So in a way it must raise the confidence of the investors and those why entrusted in South Africa about the countries, I believe whom it affects no
matter how controversial they are.
QUEST: If it raises the confidence in the judiciary, the independence and indicative judiciary the question of the integrity of other parts of the
South African economy seriously called into question obviously by the barriers alleged Gupta scandals but particularly the Bell Pottinger, the
KPMJ time. And again, the stench of what's believed to bribery and corruption is coming out of the South African economy.
GIGABA: It is a good thing. It's a good thing because to be beg if it was for (inaudible).
QUEST: It has been swept into the government for a very long time.
GIGABA: But it's came out.
UNDENTIFIED MALE: Yes it came up because of hot e-mails concerning the Bell Pottinger case.
GIGABA: But the good thing is that it's coming out and therefore we can be able to know what wrong has happened and we can be able to take action
against this. We are expecting the judicial commission will be established which will deal with all the corruption allegation from whichever
(inaudible) and we can then be able as a society and the economy to move forward.
QUEST: So, are you in favor of a full judicial commission into all aspects of a corruption of say Bell Pottinger, KPMJ and the Gupta scandals a simple
yes or no.
[16:45:03]GIGABA: Yes I'm full I mean full as the point of a full judicial commission.
QUEST: Independent judicial commission?
GIGABA: Absolutely. Absolutely the African National Congress, the ruling party itself has said, that it want such a judicial commission and we are
looking forward to its announcement in terms of reference for the commission.
QUEST: Your economy, sir, is in trouble, do you agree?
GIGABA: Do economy is in trouble. It's Gods positive sign but it is in trouble. I think the three biggest economies on the African continent are
the topics from the currency (ph), and the gold projections of the entire subside in Africa.
QUEST: So what do you see now as the policies short of getting rid of the president which I expect you're not going to support, and actually do feel
free to tell me. But what do you see as the policies that you need to introduce to rebuilt confidence in your economy?
GIGABA: I think the most important thing for us is to implement structural reforms in the economy in order to drive investments to boast in this
confidence and get investments and create activity going in the economy, in the telecommunication sector, in the mining sector and the state-owned
companies to implement the reform, the SOE reform programs.
QUEST: How that confidence come as long as Jacob Zuma remains president? When you have your predecessor saying its time for him to go? That's a
GIGABA: The fate of the president can and must be decided by the ruling party which he saves. And I think that the (ANC) is well kept it below,
taking that decision. But because of time --
QUEST: Is it time for the ANC then, let's get straight to this. Is it time for the ANC to use the old analogy to hand in and begun and day do the
GIGABA: The National Executive Committee of the ANC has discussed this matter on more than three occasions already. And the national conference
of the ANC is only in December two month from today. I don't think there is any urgency for us to preempt what's going to happen in December.
He is going to step down anyway as leader of the ANC. And so that processed must be allowed to run his foot. The presidents on his own is
not descending (inaudible), or it's not sole sector in betting on business confidence. Of course, the issue of corruption allegation --
QUEST: But any when -- think would be a lot better some would say. Would you agree?
GIGABA: Some would say that, but some would say there is comprehensive package of issue that needs to be implemented to boast business confidence,
and keep the South African economy going. Because there's an issue where to step down without asking implementing the structural reforms required.
The SOE (ph) reforms re-choosing the government that are in (inaudible), reducing our contingence abilities, the economy is still going to end up
QUEST: So, problem gotten when he came back and then he went. And then somebody else was appointed, and then you're appointed. Do you fear that
your appointment has giving you the credibility that you need to do the job that you have been tasked to get all with? Or the way you got to your job
calls that into question?
GIGABA: I actually don't worry about all that, because I don't appoint myself, I didn't apply for the, I didn't go for an interview. I was simply
called and told that I'm now appointed to this position. My job is to focus single-handedly on the task. And then, that's what I've been doing
for the last six months. That's what I'm going to continue doing for as long as I occupy the position.
QUEST: Am I talking to a future president of South Africa?
GIGABA: I'm not aware of it at the present moment. Nobody can rule out what will happen --
QUEST: Ah, there we are. That's a politicians I cannot speak to this. That's a politicians -- who knows Mr. Future president.
Thanks for joining for us. We appreciate it.
When we continue on Quest means business, how to improve US relations with Russia? My next guest is I'm going to need to get it out in order first.
You're very welcome, this is Quest Means Business.
[15:51:31] QUEST: The chairman of one of Russian's biggest banks says the political situation in the United States make it almost impossible to
improve relations between Washington and Moscow. Andrey Kostin joined me earlier. And told me divisions inside the U.S. are hampering efforts to
improve the atmosphere.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREY KOSTIN, CEO, VTB BANK: The problem is not the relationship between Putin and Trump. The problem is the relationship between Trump and the
political elites of America, and the Congress. And that's the problem. And -- I mean, Trump recently said that all things about Russia is not
about Russia. It's about the results of elections.
And I've heard from the very problems here, the Democratic Party is very prominent. Everybody knows him that they would like to impeach Trump
either for Russia or for money laundering or for insanity. If such state of affair, we can hardly talk about building out relationship within the
administration. The administration cannot deliver it. That's the problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, Russia's attempt to sway Americans opinions ahead of last year's elections, we know they involved Facebook, Twitter, and now even
games including Pokemon Go. CNN has learned about a Russia link campaign, and bear with me as I explain. The idea was to add the names of African-
Americans who died in the claims of police brutality to the Pokemon game. Russian's Foreign Minister reacted and called this network a talent-less
Dylan Byers who also works for the talent-less television channel like myself joins me from Los Angeles. And -- well, let's put the talent-less
part aside. Tell me, how serious is this intervention that add Pokemon to these other things? I mean, it's getting more incredible by the day.
DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, it's more incredible in terms of how well the Russians understood our -- all of our social media platforms
that they went beyond social media into using games like Pokemon Go to try and galvanized outrage over police brutality and other issues. They
wouldn't even further than that, they actually reach out two newspapers, local news organizations to try and give them a heads up about rallies.
They even tried to organize rallies but they've been obviously wouldn't show up for it because they weren't in the United States.
BYERS: That's very significant. Look, did the fact that there was a Pokemon Go game encouraging people to go out and name their Pokemon after
victims of police brutality, did that sway the election? Is that undermining American democracy? No. At the end of the day, that's
probably very small.
But the fact that they knew how to do this, the fact that they were trying to do it, I think should be troubling for anyone in America. And
certainly, for legitimate black activist who are actually trying to advance a very real concern and a very real cause.
QUEST: Dylan, as we got deeper into this morass, will that come a moment when definitively a report is produced, we get the evidence we can say
because as long as the Russian foreign ministry held abuse at us and we do further investigations, another people came out (inaudible) Facebook
(inaudible) who's apologizing for the way in which Facebook allowed its platform to be abused. Will that be a definitive moment of clarity?
BRYERS: I hope so, Richard. And I don't think that moment is going to come soon. There's going to be a public hearing on November 1 with
Facebook, Twitter and Google. And we'll get more details there. But even then, I think it'll probably raise as many questions as does answers.
[16:55:01] In my mind, the only time we could get total clarity, not just on social media meddling but on the entire question of Russia's influence
over American politics in the 2016 election and beyond is when Special Counsel Robert Mueller completes his report and releases details of that
report to the public. Until then, we are going to be reading the tea leaves pulling its strings, pulling it threads, relying on leaks and
scoops. And it's going to be a very murky picture until the special counsel comes forward with his findings.
QUEST: And they can guarantee whatever happens to this network where the news always comes first. We'll stay on top of it. Good to see you Dylan.
Have a good weekend. Bye Dylan. Have a great weekend. Bye Dylan.
BYERS: You too.
QUEST: We will have a "Profitable Moment" after break.