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Diplomacy with North Korea; Iran Nuclear Deal; Iraqi Forces Moving in on Kurds; Bergdahl Claims Fair Trial Impossible; North Korea Wants Intercontinental Missile.; Bannon Declared War; Graham On Tax Reform Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 16, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: We begin with breaking news. A North Korean official tells CNN his country is not, repeat not, interested in diplomacy with the United States right now. The comments come on this, the same day the U.S. and South Korea are scheduled to begin a 10-day naval drill in the region, and just 24 hours after Secretary of State Rex Tillerson says the U.S. will pursue diplomacy until, quote, "the first bomb drops."

Let's go straight to CNN Correspondent Will Ripley. He's joining us now from Tokyo with the latest. Will, as our viewers know, you've been to North Korea more than a dozen times in recent years. Tell us about this latest statement you're getting from Pyongyang.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I spoke with a North Korean official, Wolf, who reiterated statements that have been made publicly by North Korea's foreign minister that now is simply not the time, from the North Korean perspective, for diplomacy with the United States.

This official telling me, and I'll quote it for you. Before we can engage in diplomacy with the Trump administration, we want to send a clear message that DPRK, that's North Korea, has a reliable, defensive and offensive capability to counter any aggression from the United States.

So, that -- he's talking about a nuclear deterrent, demonstrating that North Korea has an ICBM that could deliver a nuclear warhead to the mainland U.S.

And the office -- this official says that two steps would be needed to demonstrate to the Trump administration that North Korea has this capability. One would be to launch a long-range ICBM over the Pacific. Something that a Russian lawmaker had -- just a couple of weeks ago, said the North Korean officials in Pyongyang told him they were going to do. Even showing him the mathematic calculations. This official telling me that they're going to test a missile that could, potentially, hit the east coast of the United States. And the second step would be to detonate a nuclear device above ground over the Pacific. A threat that was first made at the United Nations by North Korean's foreign minister after President Trump made his speech, threatening to totally destroy North Korea.

So, essentially, you have North Korea saying that before they could sit down with the United States, they want to show they have an ICBM that could deliver a nuclear warhead to the mainland U.S., which would include the first above-ground nuclear test since China conducted an above ground nuclear test back in 1980. Obviously, that would be highly provocative. It would come with a great deal of risk.

But the messaging from North Korea seems to be that that's what they feel they need to do to send, in their words, a clear message to the Trump administration that they can defend themselves against what they view as provocative behavior from the United States.

And, of course, they say the time -- this official says the timing for this could possibly be to coincide with these joint naval drills that have began today and are expected to last for 10 days between the U.S. and South Korea.

You have 40 naval ships. The USS Ronald Reagan fighter jets and helicopters all engaging in what the United States says are purely defensive measures. But North Korea views it as a dress rehearsal for an invasion.

We also know that the U.S. is planning to conduct evacuation drills for the families of U.S. personnel who are based in South Korea. These are drills that they hold regularly. But, obviously, and this takes new significance, given all of the attention right now to evacuate these family members from the Korean Peninsula to the Island of Okinawa in southern Japan.

So, clearly, Wolf, at this moment, at least in this part of the world and, really, around the world, people are collectively holding their breath to see what North Korea is going to do next.

The other possibility is that they attempt to do one of these two provocative acts to coincide with President Trump's visit to Asia which is scheduled to happen early next month.

BLITZER: Lots going on right now. Very sensitive and potentially extremely dangerous developments. Will Ripley reporting for us from Tokyo. Thanks very much. We'll stay on top of this.

We have some more breaking news coming in right now. This time, from the president's cabinet room over at the White House. Just moments ago, President Trump said he understands why Steve Bannon, his former top strategic advisor in the White House is declaring war on the Republican establishment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, Steve is very committed. He's a friend of mine and he's very committed to getting things passed. I mean, look, I have -- you know, despite what the press writes, I have great relationships with actually many senators, but, in particular, with most Republican senators.

But we're not getting the job done. And I'm not going to blame myself. I'll be honest. They are not getting the job done. There are some Republicans, frankly, that should be ashamed of themselves.

But most of them -- I'll tell you what, I know the Republican senators. Most of them are really, really great people that want to work hard and they want to do a great thing for the American public.

But you had a few people that really disappointed us. They really, really disappointed us. So, I can understand fully how Steve Bannon feels.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:05:05] BLITZER: Bannon spent seven months as the White House chief strategist before leaving. He's taking direct aim at the Republican establishment, in general, and the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, in particular.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, BREITBART NEWS: Yes, Mitch, the donors -- the donors are not happy. They've all left you. We've cut your oxygen off, Mitch. OK? There is a time and season for everything. And, right now, it's a season of war against the GOP establishment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: By the way, the president is having lunch with Senator Mitch McConnell right now and the vice president, Mike Pence. He's expected to make a statement, meet with reporters after that lunch. We'll, of course, have coverage of that.

In the meantime, let's get some perspective from our panel. Our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger is with us. Our Senior Political Reporter Nia-Malika Henderson and Political Congressional Reporter Rachael Bade is here as well.

What do you think of the president's reaction to Steve Bannon, what he said over the weekend?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I think, in his heart of hearts, the president supports what Steve Bannon is doing. Don't forget, he ran with somebody who was anti-establishment. Ran against Congress. Doesn't really like a lot of these people. Thinks that they didn't get anything done.

And as he told us, he's not going to blame himself. He will never blame himself for anything that occurred.

On the other hand, he's having lunch with Mitch McConnell today. It's, like, there are two people sitting on the president's shoulders, right? And he's got to deal with Mitch McConnell whom he has tweeted about, whom he has said publicly he is disappointed in. And whom he needs, right now, to get something done.

And if Steve Bannon has his way, there are lots of Republicans out there who are saying Republicans could lose control of the Senate, not to mention the House, as Sara Murray has written about in CNN today.

And so, I think this is a President trying to threat the needle, and trying to put Republicans on notice that they better get something done or they're going to lose their seats. It's a weird position for a president to be in.

BLITZER: He went through a lot of issues in that 20-minute photo op with members of his cabinet.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, he did. I mean, it almost became sort of, like a mini press conference. He seemed to, kind of, relish the questioning, relish the fact that he could have that time to go through any number of issues.

He talked about the stock market. He talked about health care. And he talked about welfare reform. This idea that, at some point, they might turn to reforming welfare in the way that the Congress and Bill Clinton did in the 1990s.

So, yes, a very free-wheeling press conference he had there. Interesting to hear him talk about Bannon. I mean, essentially, he was, sort of, saying that a boy, Steve Bannon. I mean, this sense that --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Totally.

HENDERSON: Yes. I mean, there was never a sense that he's going to tell Bannon to, sort of, cut it out. It seems likes this chaos to be between, sort of, Mitch McConnell and Steve Bannon.

He is right. Not only is he not going to blame himself, if the Congress can't get anything done. It doesn't appear that voters are prepared to blame him either. They seem much more prepared to look at the establishment figures, like Mitch McConnell, like Paul Ryan, and essentially say that it's them. That they are part of the swamp. And that they need to be drained.

So, I -- you know, I think Bannon is on pretty firm ground here, not only with Trump, also with voters as well, and certainly with, sort of, the conservative chattering class.

BLITZER: But, Rachael, the big issue right now for the president, for the Republican leadership is -- are the tax cuts. In order to get the tax cuts, they have to pass a budget this week. You cover Capitol Hill. How does that look?

RACHAEL BADE, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, POLITICO: I mean, the timing of this GOP infighting is certainly not ideal for Republicans. They're about to enter this, sort of, critical stretch. You mentioned tax reform. DACA is going to expire in March.

They also have a government shutdown they have to avert in mid- December. A potential shutdown over the wall. Also, the Iran deal. A whole list of things Congress is going to have to deal with right now.

And the president is putting himself behind Steve Bannon, when it comes to, you know, pointing to Congress and saying this is their fault.

You know, it's interesting. I sat down with a couple of my colleagues, with OMB director, Mick Mulvaney, to talk about the agenda on Friday. And within a few minutes, you know, he started blistering about the Senate.

And, you know, how their -- their inability to get Obamacare repeal passed. He started, sort of, expressing his frustration about why is the Senate in recess this week? They were in recess last week, home in their districts and in their states. And he was saying, you know, why aren't they here working on nominations?

So, this is -- it's a lot of frustration building. And I think it's just going to continues to reach an ultimate climax right now. And we're going to see a potential civil war in the Republican party.

HENDERSON: You're already watching it.

BADE: Yes.

BLITZER: Gloria, take -- listen to Lindsay Graham who played golf with the president over the weekend. What he had to say the Republicans fail to pass tax reform. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSAY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: If we don't, we're dead. It's a symptom of a greater problem. If we don't cut taxes and we don't eventually repeal and replace Obamacare, then we're going to lose across the board in the House in 2018.

[13:10:00] And all of my colleagues running in primaries in 2018 will probably get beat. It will be the end of Mitch McConnell as we know it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is he right?

BORGER: Yes, I think he's got a -- I think he's got a good point there. And since he did play golf with the president, you know, the question is, did he tell the president, you better talk to Mitch McConnell? Because right now, you need him. You may not be able to keep control of the Senate without him.

And this is the problem that the president has. I mean, he is an outsider. And he came to Washington as an outsider. And suddenly, he needs the ultimate insider to help him out here.

HENDERSON: Yes. BORGER: And it's Mitch McConnell and he doesn't like it.

So, he really sides with Steve Bannon to a great degree. But, on the other hand, he's got to work with Mitch McConnell. And it's a difficult position for him to be in. And I don't think he can quite figure out which side he's on yet.

HENDERSON: Yes, and we'll see. I mean, he's going to have lunch with Mitch McConnell. He had -- he had a golfing outing with Rand Paul as well, somebody he also needs.

So, yes, I mean, he's got to, sort of, make good and make nice --

BORGER: Right.

HENDERSON: -- with some of those Republican senators.

He says he's, sort of, friends of most of them. I think there's a statistic that he's feuded with one-fifth of the Republican senators. So, I don't know --

BORGER: Is that all?

HENDERSON: That's right. So, we'll see if he's able to, sort of, kiss and make up with Mitch McConnell at their lunch today.

BLITZER: And he did, Rachael, today, that as an interim event, he would like to work out some, sort of, temporary fix to Obamacare with Democrats, once again. He says he'll have the votes down the road to repeal and replace, maybe in March or April.

But, in the meantime, he's waiting for the Democrats to see if they can come up with something, a temp -- what he calls a temporary solution.

BADE: And, yes, he's tweeting at Chuck Schumer this morning, attacking the Democrats and saying they don't want to work on tax cuts and they're for tax increases.

I mean, look, the president says, you know, he wants to work with Democrats on a whole host of issues. And he does. He does a little flirting with them. Has them over to the White House for Chinese food with Chuck and Nancy. And then, he comes out and he blasts them on Twitter.

And so, he's trying to do this really awkward dance right now, where he has to work with Republicans. But then, he's siding with Bannon against the establishment. He wants to work with Democrats then he attacks them.

So, it's, like, there is not a coherent strategy here. And it's unclear to me exactly what he's doing. A lot of my Republican colleagues on the Hill are worried about this, when it comes to tax reform. That he's not going to have, you know, his eye on the ball, in terms of getting things done with them to actually get this through. BORGER: His strategy is he wants to win, right?

BADE: No matter what.

HENDERSON: Make a deal.

BORGER: And so, if he has to side with Republicans on some things, he will or Democrats on other things, he well. It's not -- it's just about Donald Trump being successful.

BLITZER: Yes. All right, everybody stand by. We're waiting. The president said at the end of his meeting, his luncheon with Mitch McConnell, he'd make another statement --

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: -- in front of reporters. Let's see if he does do that. The White House press secretary is going to have a briefing. We'll have live coverage of that as well.

But there's other news we're following. The president says he's looking forward to the next step on Iran. Last week, he decertified the nuclear deal but didn't end it all together. Today, in his cabinet meeting, the president said that total termination is very much on the table. It's a little different from what we heard from his secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, speaking with our Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "THE LEAD": Not long ago, your counterpart at the Pentagon, Secretary Mattis, was asked if he thought staying in the agreement was in the best interest of the United States. Not a question about whether or not he wanted to improve upon the deal or add a secondary deal, as you just discussed, but whether or not the U.S. should stay in it or leave.

And he said staying in it was his course. It sounds like you agree with that as well, that you would not want Congress to immediately impose sanctions that would end this deal.

REX TILLERSON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I do agree with that and I think the president does as well. That's why he took the decision he took. That, look, let's see if we cannot address the flaws in the agreement by staying within the agreement, working with the other signatories, working with our European friends and allies within the agreement.

But that -- as I said, that may come in a secondary agreement.

TAPPER: You were in China. We were just talking about the North Korean problem. You were in China trying to resolve the dispute with North Korea in a diplomatic way. And President Trump tweeted, I told Rex Tillerson, our wonderful secretary of state, that he is wasting his time trying to negotiate with little rocket man. And then, he sent a second tweet saying, save your energy, Rex. We'll do what has to be done. TILLERSON: But be clear, the president has also made clear to me that he wants this solved diplomatically. He is not seeking to go to war.

TAPPER: He doesn't think it's a waste of time?

TILLERSON: But I -- no, sir. He has made it clear to me to continue my diplomatic efforts which we are and we will -- as I've told others, those diplomatic efforts will continue until the first bomb drops.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Let's get some analysis. Let's bring in Arizona Republican Congressman Trent Franks. He's a key member of the House Armed Services Committee. He's joining us from Jerusalem right now where he's got meetings with Israeli leaders going on.

Let's talk about North Korea for a moment, Congressman. The North Koreans now say, forget about diplomacy until they are sure they have an intercontinental ballistic missile capable of reaching the United States. You heard Will Ripley report that at the top of our program this hour. What's your reaction to what we're hearing from the North Koreans?

REP. TRENT FRANKS (R), ARIZONA: Well, Wolf, first of all, thanks for having me on.

You know that the North Koreans have been practicing a brinksmanship for a long time. They have considered what's happened in past negotiations with Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. And each time that they pushed the envelope, as it were, they ended up gaping great compensation. And they've now watched this last administration make a deal with Iran that was extremely lucrative to Iran. So I think that they understand the danger of any sort of real conflict with the United States.

But I think it's going to take a lot of courage and a lot of clarity. And I would suggest to you that Donald Trump has played this very well. He's made it clear to the North Koreans that there's a different guy in the White House now. And he's said some things that I think caused them to back up a little bit and say, we need to reassess, because we may be in a dangerous circumstance here.

BLITZER: What -- you -- I know you see a connection that you just sort of pointed that out between the North Korean nuclear program and they may have 60 -- they may already have 80 nuclear bombs. They certainly have the capability of miniaturizing those nuclear bombs and putting them on -- on long range missiles, intermediate missiles and maybe eventually intercontinental ballistic missiles. But what is your analysis of why do you see that connected to the president's decision on the Iran nuclear deal, which he announced on Friday?

FRANKS: Well, I think Iran is watching very closely what we do with North Korea and vice versa. There's no question that the connection is real. The past connection has been very clear. And I would just suggest to you, Wolf, that when we talk about keeping Iran at a year breakout, you know, with the additional cash infusion that Iran has had, they could easily, if North Korea would be amenable, purchase or buy nuclear warheads from North Korea and then they could break out in a week.

And the reality here is that we've got a very danger situation on our hands and this president needs to continue, I believe, on the track he's on. And for him to take council from those that put us in this very untenable position doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

BLITZER: Iran says they won't support any changes to the deal, which was worked out not just with the United States, but with the other permanent members of the U.N. Security Council and Germany. And the president now says it's in the hands of Congress. So what do you want Congress to do?

FRANKS: Well, I hope Congress can make some changes. And I certainly advocated for those the first time. I was very much against the Iran deal, as you know. It puts Iran on a path, a trajectory to not only gaping a nuclear weapons capability, but to be able to do it under a legal protocol.

And we need to be able to inspect anywhere in Iran. We need to be able to have clarity that they have completely dismantled their capability and we need to make sure that these sunset provisions are out of the agreement because Iran remains the world's largest promoter of terrorism in the world. And if that turns to nuclear terrorism, it's a scenario that I just can't imagine given the fact that I'm a father of nine-year-old twins.

BLITZER: There's a very ominous development happening in Iraq right now. There seems to be a military confrontation emerging between Kurdish forces, the Peshmerga in the northern part Iraq, and the Iraq military. The Iraqi military, at least some of the militias that seem to be there backed by the Iranians. The U.S. obviously has a very close relationship with the Peshmerga, with the Kurds, also a very close relationship with the Iraqi government. What should the U.S. do?

FRANKS: Well, first of all, the U.S. has to end its studied indifference towards our ally, the Kurds. The Kurds have shown great courage in being able to stand up against ISIS when no one else stood with them. They have shown pluralism that is important to the entire region and I believe it's very important that we protect them and do everything that we can to make it clear that we're on their side right now and I have -- haven't seen that. And I'm very concerned about that.

You know, last week our office issued a press release that said that we saw these forces amassing and this was in fact something that made us call upon Prime Minister Abadi to keep his promise. He promised that there would be no confrontation or military moves. And yet the fact is that, as you said, Iran has insinuated itself into the Iraqi government to the extent -- especially the military side -- that we don't know who's doing what here right now. And Iraq has to back away from Iran because if they're a puppet of Iran at this point, then we need to back away from Iraq and back the Kurds and do what we can to have some sort of salvation of the system there as best we can. [13:20:13] BLITZER: And would you support an independent Kurdistan?

They voted a non-binding referendum the other day in favor -- the Kurds did -- in favor of an independent Kurdistan. Would you support that?

FRANKS: You know, I have to -- I have to be direct. I would. I want to make sure that the timing is right here because it's a very delicate situation. But, you know, the United States of America, we wanted to be a people that considered our own lot in this world and we should be the first to stand up for the group like the Kurds who have shown this courage to stand up to evil in Iraq. And I -- I would back their independence. And I hope we can somehow do it in a way that is at the right time.

And I also think it's important that the Kurds will make sure that the Christian defense forces in the Niniva (ph) plain have their own type of ability to defend themselves as well. Otherwise, we're going to see, you know, the whole Christian presence excised from Iraq.

BLITZER: Congressman Trent Franks, thanks so much for joining us.

FRANKS: Thank you.

You know, Wolf, I have to say, I heard children downstairs here when I was walking up singing Israeli songs, school girls, and that's in spite of the fact that Israel has 100,000 missiles aimed at them and possibly a nuclear threat from Iran. There's always hope here in Jerusalem. And I just thank God for that and thank God for Israel.

BLITZER: Thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you back here in Washington. Safe travels.

FRANKS: Thank you, sir.

BLITZER: Trent Franks, a member of the Armed Services Committee from Arizona.

FRANKS: Thank you, sir.

BLITZER: On the day that the former Taliban prisoner, Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl pleads guilty to desertion, we're now hearing in an interview in which he responds to President Trump calling him a traitor. Stand by for that.

And as new revelations emerge about Russian medaling in the U.S. presidential election, a new report suggests Russian trolls were told to watch the TV show "House of Cards." Stand by. You'll hear why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:26:18] BLITZER: A guilty plea in military court today for Bowe Bergdahl. He's the U.S. Army sergeant who was accused of deserting fellow soldiers after walking away from his remote military post in Afghanistan back in 2009. He was later captured by the Taliban. Five years after that, Bergdahl was released in exchange for five Taliban prisoners held at the U.S. Naval base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. In a recently uncovered interview, Bergdahl says a fair trial for him

would be impossible under a Trump administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. BOWE BERGDAHL, PLEADS GUILTY TO DESERTION: May as well go back to kangaroo courts and lynch mobs. That got what they wanted. The people who are to the point of saying, yes, just shoot him. You can never convince those people to change their minds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It hurts though?

BERGDAHL: It does hurt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: During the presidential campaign, Donald Trump suggested Bergdahl should face the ultimate consequences.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So we get a traitor named Bergdahl. A dirty, rotten traitor. You know, in the old days, bing, bong. When we were strong. When we were strong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Lawyers for both sides said there was no pre-trial agreement reached before the guilty plea. Bergdahl could face life in prison.

I want to bring in Congressman Brenden Boyle. He's a Democrat from Pennsylvania whose district includes parts of Philadelphia. He's also a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressman, let me get your reaction to what we just heard from Bowe Bergdahl. Do you think he has a valid concern that he wouldn't be able to get a fair trial in the United States because of what President Trump has said about him?

REP. BRENDAN BOYLE (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, thanks for having me on, Wolf.

As you know, I'm certainly no fan of this administration. But that said, I do have a tremendous amount of faith in our military and the military justice system. So I wouldn't agree that somehow Bowe Bergdahl wouldn't get a fair trial within the military system of justice.

BLITZER: We heard from the secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, earlier saying that the White House will pursue diplomacy with North Korea until the first bomb drops. The U.S. is currently conducting military exercises, as you know, with South Korea. Something the North Korean regime hates. Reports are surfacing right now -- we reported this -- that North Korea isn't really interested in diplomacy right now until they have that intercontinental ballistic missile capability, a missile that could reach the United States. So where does this go? BOYLE: Well, first, i would say with respect to the secretary of

state's comments, I think the point of diplomacy is to prevent the bombs from dropping in the first place.

You know, unfortunately, President Trump, only nine or 10 months in, has shown a real inability when it comes to dealing on the international stage. And that includes on the North Korea issue. It's unhelpful to take this go it alone approach. Really what we need to do is to work with our allies, Japan, South Korea and especially China, and ensure that we bring as much pressure as we can on the Kim regime possible to abandon these sort of suicidal thoughts that Kim is continuing to pursue.

Unfortunately, I think that the Trump approach had the exact opposite effect and has in many ways accelerated the North Korean regime's desire to be a nuclear power.

BLITZER: So you think that diplomacy still has a chance, because the U.S. has been trying diplomacy for 25 years with North Korea and it certainly hasn't succeeded.

[13:30:00] BOYLE: Well, in one sense it hasn't succeeded. But in another sense, it delayed us from reaching this point. Remember, in the early 1990s, North Korea was on this path. They weren't this far along.