Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Trump's Call To Widow; Johnson Casket Arrives In U.S.; Sessions on Russian Communications; Jeff Sessions Hearing. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 18, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: If there is just one place in American politics that is sacred, this should be it.

I'll leave it at that. Thanks for joining us today on "INSIDE POLITICS." Wolf Blitzer up after a quick break. Up next (INAUDIBLE.)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in Niamey, Niger, 8:30 p.m. in Tehran. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

President Trump now picking a fight with a Florida Congresswoman after being slammed for his comments to the widow of a U.S. soldier killed in an ambush in Niger.

Sergeant La David Johnson was killed in the ambush, along with three other U.S. soldiers. His body was returned home to Miami on Tuesday.

In the drive to the airport, Sergeant Johnson's widow received a call from President Donald Trump. Congresswoman Frederica Wilson was also in the car. She says she heard the president tell the widow that her husband knew what he was signing up for but it still hurts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. FREDERICA WILSON (D), FLORIDA: For him to say that this young man stayed in school, did all the right things, went into the service, became a sergeant so quickly, that he signed up for his own death? That is so insensitive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did she hear it? What was her response?

WILSON: She was crying. She broke down. And she said, he didn't even know his name.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: President Trump strongly disputes that claim, tweeting, quote, "Democratic Congresswoman totally fabricated what I said to the wife of the soldier who died in action and I have proof. Sad."

We did hear from a family member who was also in the car during the call and she tells CNN that Congresswoman Wilson's recollection is, quote, "very accurate." Our Senior White House Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is joining us now from the White House. We saw the president's tweet. Since then, he was asked another question and he responded. Tell our viewers what he said.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Wolf. He did. He was meeting with the Senate Finance Committee a short time ago in the cabinet room here at the White House. And we did ask the president about this unusual back and forth between the Congresswoman, the mother of this fallen soldier and the president. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I did not say what she said. And I'd like her to make the statement again because I did not say what she said. I had a very nice conversation with the woman, with the wife who is -- sounded like a lovely woman. Did not say what the Congresswoman said and most people aren't too surprised to hear that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, Wolf, the back and forth continued with the member of Congress from Florida Representative Wilson, responding to the president on social media, on Twitter, she said this. She said, I stand by my account of the call between President Trump and Myesha Johnson. That is the widow of the soldier. That is her name, Mr. Trump. Not the woman or the wife.

So, again, Wolf, just to, sort of, try and break this all down here, this confusing and unfortunate back and forth. We have the Democratic Congresswoman who has known this family for a very long time, indeed was a mentor to this fallen soldier. And the widow of the soldier and the mother, the woman who raised him, saying that the president did, indeed, in their words, disrespect the soldier.

The president said he didn't say that. He said there was proof of that phone call, again raising the specter of if these calls were recorded or something. He did not elaborate on that. But, Wolf, I think there will be more questions on this this afternoon at the White House press briefing that Sara Sanders is holding.

But, Wolf, again, it, sort of -- all this back and forth, sort of, masks all the deep, serious questions about what happened on that night in Niger, what happened to cause the deaths of these four American soldiers.

Important to point out, that investigation is underway as all of this noise, if you will, is going on here in Washington.

BLITZER: Yes, very, very unfortunate and very painful noise. The exact tweet that he wrote. Democrat Congresswoman totally fabricated what I said to the wife of a soldier who died in action and I have proof. Sad.

So, is he suggesting that that conversation was recorded? They have a recording, is that what he's suggesting?

ZELENY: Well, Wolf, that certainly sounded like it. Of course, it sounds familiar. The president previously said that he's had recordings of phone conversations. But a reporter this morning, again in the cabinet room here at the White House, the only time we've seen the president, asked him what proof he indeed had. And he said, you will see.

But, again, Wolf, this, you know, simply raises the specter of if he's recording phone calls or if someone was taking notes at the time. We don't know the answer to that.

I believe the White House press secretary, Sara Sanders, will be asked about that this afternoon.

But, again, Wolf, I think important to point out, a lot of this back and forth here does not change the fact that this young American soldier died in action. And, again, the Pentagon investigating. And, indeed, this will surely reach Capitol Hill, as well. What happened to those soldiers in Niger -- Wolf.

[13:05:00] BLITZER: Yes, what were they doing there to begin with? That's another issue that needs to be investigated. Did they have the proper support? Was the U.S. intelligence adequate? Clearly, a very, very dangerous mission inside Niger.

Jeff Zeleny, thanks very much.

And let's not forget what is at the heart of this back and forth. Once again, the death of these four U.S. soldiers, Sergeant La David Johnson, Army Staff Sergeant Dustin Wright, Army Staff Sergeant Jeremiah Johnson and Army Staff Sergeant Brian Black. All killed in this ambush in Niger.

It's an incident the president of the United States didn't mention or tweet about for some 12 days until he was asked about it by our own Sara Murray at that news conversation the other day.

I want to bring in our John Kirby. He's our CNN Military and Diplomatic Analyst, a former spokesman for both the State Department and the Pentagon, a retired U.S. admiral.

You know, John, this has become a major issue now for the president. Is there a set protocol, as far as you know, for a president to follow when contacting the family of a fallen U.S. soldier, sailor, airman or Marine?

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY (retired), CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: I don't think there's a set protocol for all presidents. Every president handles this differently.

And so, obviously, it looks like President Trump has chosen he's going to make these phone calls and write those letters. And that's perfectly fine.

That's what a commander in chief should do which is find a way to appropriately reach out to the families of the fallen when and where he or she can. But there's no set protocol for all presidents.

BLITZER: When it comes to your background, 30 years in the U.S. military, in the Navy, when you hear of this political bickering that's going on about phone calls and letters to the families of the fallen, what goes through your mind?

KIRBY: It breaks my heart, Wolf. I mean, it just -- absolutely this whole sad situation just breaks my heart. And I find it utterly disgraceful, frankly, that this family and all those families are being put in the middle of what is beak a political fight. It just shouldn't happen that way.

You look at that -- those images of the young woman leaning over the casket, pregnant with a child that will never know his or her father. She has a six-year-old and two-year-old. Never see their daddy again.

That's what the focus needs to be on. That's where America needs to be focused. And the military will wrap their arms around these poor unfortunate families and they'll help them through this.

But we've got to focus on their grief and their needs and the support that they need going forward. Not what was said on the call and how it was perceived. That's, really, just not important right now. What's important is this family.

BLITZER: Good point. Congresswoman Wilson says she wanted to speak with the president during that call in the car. It was a speakerphone there but the master sergeant who is the liaison to the family, accompanying the family in the car, said he wouldn't allow it.

Explain why that master sergeant wouldn't let the Congresswoman, who mentored this young man, speak with the president.

KIRBY: Because it's a private conversation between the commander in chief and the family of the fallen. My guess is this master sergeant is what we call a casualty assistance case officer, CACO if you will.

Their whole job is to do exactly what we were talking about a few minutes ago. To wrap their arms around the family. Work -- help them work through not only the initial stages of grief but all the attendant responsibilities that they now have with a fallen service member, from funerals to insurance, everything.

And so, they really do wrap their arms around this family. And that's what he was doing. It's appropriate for him to not have allowed anybody else to be on that call.

BLITZER: President Trump, as you know, he seemed to go after his predecessor, former President Barack Obama, even questioning whether General John Kelly, his White House Chief of Staff, was called after his son was killed in the line of duty in Afghanistan back in 2010.

Senator Lindsey Graham defended President Obama, saying he definitely cared about U.S. troops. You were there at the Pentagon, later at the State Department. Give us a sense of how President Obama handled these kinds of so sensitive situations. KIRBY: He was dignified, Wolf. He was respectful. And he was quiet

about it. He visited families out at Section 60. Whenever he would travel to bases here in the United States, he would always carve out time to meet with families of the fallen that might be living or near that base.

He, obviously, made phone calls as well. When it was appropriate, he certainly wrote condolence letters. And he went to Walter Reed, as you know, Wolf, many, many times during his presidency to meet with the wounded, as well and their families.

But he was always low key about it, always quiet about it. This was a dignified thing for him. A duty that he took very seriously as commander in chief and he would never ever try to score political points as a result of it. He would never do that.

BLITZER: Yes. Remind viewers what Section 60 is.

KIRBY: I'm sorry. Section 60 is that area of the Arlington National Cemetery here in Washington where most of those who fell in Iraq and Afghanistan are now resting. And it's, sort of, a section that's almost completely just those -- the fallen from Iraq and Afghanistan.

[13:10:06] BLITZER: And there are, unfortunately, thousands of U.S. military personnel, over these many years, who have now died in -- and they are now buried at Arlington National Cemetery in Section 60.

John Kirby, thanks very much.

KIRBY: Yes, sir.

BLITZER: We're going to have much more on this, much more on the breaking news coming in from Capitol Hill, including President Trump now reversing himself on a bi-partisan health care deal.

But first, I want to take a moment to honor the U.S. soldier, the family he leaves behind, his wife just 24 years old and six months pregnant. They also have two children together, including a six-year- old daughter who was at her mother's side when her father's casket arrived back here in the United States. Please watch the solemn ceremony, a ceremony no military family wants to witness.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE.)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:14:12]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:18:20] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Attorney General Jeff Sessions in the hot seat this hour. He's being grilled by members of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Moments ago, there was a pretty fiery exchange between Sessions and Democratic Senator Al Franken about meeting Sessions had with Russian officials during the 2016 election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. AL FRANKEN (D), MINNESOTA: First it was, I did not have communications with Russians, which was not true. Then it was, I never met with any Russians to discuss any political campaign, which may or may not be true. Now it's, I did not discuss interference in the campaign, which further narrows your initial blanket denial about meeting with the Russians. Since you have qualified your denial to say that you did not, quote, discuss issues of the campaign with Russians, what, in your view, constitutes issues of the campaign?

JEFF SESSIONS, ATTORNEY GENERA: Well, let me just say this without hesitation, that I conducted no improper discussions with Russians at any time regarding a campaign or any other item facing this country.

FRANKEN: OK. How do you know?

SESSIONS: And I want to say that first. And that's been the suggestion that you've raised and others that somehow we had conversations that were improper, number one.

FRANKEN: May I suggest that -- that --

SESSIONS: No, no, no, you had a long time, Senator Franken. I'd like to respond. I think I have a --

FRANKEN: OK. We'll note that Senator Cruz went two minutes over. So, I don't want -- I --

[13:20:02] SESSIONS: Well --

FRANKEN: They're going to cut me off and so I want to ask you some questions.

SESSIONS: I will -- no, I -- Mr. Chairman, I don't have to sit in here and listen to his --

FRANKEN: You're the one who testified.

SESSIONS: Charges without having a chance to respond.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He did respond at length after that exchange.

Joining us now our legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Laura Coates, and CNN contributor, Garrett Graff.

Well, Laura, Sessions testified earlier that he -- earlier this year that he had no communications with the Russians in that one exchange that he had. That's now changed that he had no improper communications. And he explained his thinking along those lines during that lengthy exchange he had. Has the attorney general's story changed, in your opinion, so much that potentially it could be consider perjury? LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: At this point, from what he has

given, is a string of contingencies, (INAUDIBLE) in caveats here, which, you know, Lawyers are infamous for giving and he, in fact, is the head lawyer in town as the attorney general.

What it sounds like to me is less of perjury and more of somebody who is giving them a more nuanced description of his activity in a way that has been vetted, in a way that takes into account allegations of perjury, and in a way that suggests that he, in fact, is not involved. So I think it's more of an appropriate assessment of this -- of his statement to say that it's nuanced, it gives caveats and tries to distance himself from something that is obviously a criminal probe that he has recused himself from.

But, politically speaking, it certainly raises more than a few eyebrows that someone's story could change so dramatically on a turn of semantics. That's not going to get him very far if in fact he does get interviewed by someone like Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

BLITZER: Yes, and he had all the transcripts right in front of them.

COATES: Right.

BLITZER: He read those exchanges. He had his explanations.

But, Garrett, what does all this do to the attorney general's credibility?

GARRETT GRAFF, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Wolf, I think one of the things that's really worth thinking about in the context of this hearing today was just how combative this hearing actually was. I mean Jeff Sessions, just a few months ago, was sitting with these senators. I mean he was part of this club. And normally you don't see members of this club turn on another in the way that ends in a hearing as combative as today was. I mean at a different point in the hearing, you know, Dick Durbin, senator from Illinois, was -- actually said, you know, this is the points, Mr. Sessions, where Senator Sessions would have gotten very frustrated with an uncooperative witness.

BLITZER: You know, and Laura, the -- there was an exchange earlier in the day, Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont, pressed Sessions on the meetings that he did have with the Russians. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Have you discussed with him any policies or positions of the campaign or Trump presidency?

JEFF SESSIONS, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I -- I'm not sure about that. I met with the Russian ambassador after I gave a speech at the Republican Convention. He was right in front of the speakerphone. And we had a few -- we had an encounter there. I don't think there was any discussion about the details of the campaign other than it could have been that in that meeting in my office or at the convention that some comment was made about what Trump's positions were. I think that's possible. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So what does Special Counsel Robert Mueller do with this, if anything?

COATES: Well, you know, we're all juries in this court of public opinion for now. And if you're watching somebody who's able to make such emphatic statements about the recollection and their memories on one area, but they're unable to do so in more critical areas, it does tend to undermine your credibility in all of our eyes.

But also, importantly here, you have somebody who seems to have learned from his prior testimony. And his prior testimony, where he locked himself into a positioning that could suggest that he somehow was complicity in improper behavior. He knew what happened and the consequences were vast and continuing.

But here he knows that you have Special Counsel Robert Mueller, who's looking at what he says. He's deciphering it. He's looking for every sort of avenue he may partake in. And you have someone who's more -- more likely to hedge. And you saw that just now. So if I'm Robert Mueller's team, I'm thinking to myself, what is it about this line of questioning that has you hedging, but everything else your recollection is quite outstanding.

BLITZER: He did say in response to questioning, the attorney general, that if called to answer questions by the special counsel, Robert Mueller, absolutely he'd be happy to cooperate. But he did, Garrett, keep refusing to talk about his private conversations with President Trump. Can he do that?

GRAFF: It's sort of unclear at this point because it seems like that assertion of executive privilege would need to come from are the White House and it's not something that he can do personally. But there is a lot of questions -- there are a lot of questions about those conversations and what part of the Jim Comey firing in particular that Jeff Sessions was part of, because in theory, and he reiterated this today during the hearing, he is supposed to be fully recused from the Russia investigation. And it's supposed to be run by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. And that that -- the intersection of the firing of Jim Comey with the Russia investigation is very central to the questions that Robert Mueller, the special counsel, is examining right now.

BLITZER: Garrett Graph, Laura Coats, guys, thanks very much.

COATES: Thank you.

BLITZER: This conversation, no doubt, will continue.

In the meantime, President Trump once again blasting the NFL, calling them disrespectful for not forcing the players to stand during the national anthem.

And any moment now -- you're looking at live pictures -- the NFL commissioner, Roger Goodell, will weigh in publicly. We'll take it live. Much more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:28:01] BLITZER: Want to get back to the Senate Judiciary Committee. Senator Blumenthal, a member of the committee, questioning the attorney general, Jeff Sessions.

[13:28:09] SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D), CONNECTICUT: Been contacted to request an interview with you by the special counsel. That's a yes or no --

JEFF SESSIONS, ATTORNEY GENERA: Well, I don't -- I don't think so.

BLUMENTHAL: You don't think so? Are you sure? I'm -- I'm asking you this question multiple times that you can be clear.

SESSIONS: I'm multiply willing to respond to the special counsel in any way, but I don't recall that I have been contacted. I certainly have not spoken directly with anybody in the special counsel office.

BLUMENTHAL: But the fact of the matter is, the special counsel has asked your office for an interview with you, correct?

SESSIONS: I'll be glad to let you know within hours.

BLUMENTHAL: Well, I'm asking you now.

SESSIONS: Well, I don't know. I don't recall that I've ever been asked to provide any interview with the special counsel . You seem to know. So I don't want to come in here and be trapped, and you know something I don't know, maybe shared it with somebody in my office, or something.

So I would , you know, check and let you know.

BLUMENTHAL: It would make sense for the special counsel to ask for an interview, correct?

SESSIONS: Well I - that is his decision, not mine, senator.

BLUMENTHAL: You have knowledge relevant to the investigation into collusion and potential obstruction of justice, correct?

SESSIONS: It would be up to the special counsel, obviously, not me.

BLUMRENTHAL: The question to you was whether your office has been contacted, and you would certainly know the answer to that question.

SESSIONS: Well, I have no knowledge of any meeting or interview to be conducted, and no date, certainly, has been set for one. Whether there has been any conversation with somebody, I would verify before I gave you an absolute, final answer. What more can I tell you?

GRASSLEY: Can you give him an answer before the day is out?

SESSIONS: Yes, I can -- I said within hours, I can do that. GRASSLEY: Okay.

[13:30:01] SESSION: I just would like to check. You seem to know. Do you have a source?

BLUMENTHAL: Well, Mr. Attorney General, with all due respect, you're the one answering the questions here today. I will welcome an answer --