Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
U.K. Defense Secretary Michael Fallon Resigns; Police: NYC Terror Suspect Is Speaking To Investigators; Sanders: Extreme Vetting Is Not New Idea For Trump; Source: Note Found In Truck Claims Attack Done For ISIS; U.S. Senators Grill Facebook, Twitter, Google Execs; Mueller Probe Lays Out Evidence Of Possible Collusion. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired November 01, 2017 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:00:34]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Welcome. I'm Hala Gorani.
Let's begin this hour with some breaking news from right here in the United Kingdom. The defense secretary of this country, Michael Fallon, a key
member of Theresa May's cabinet has resigned according to a Defense Ministry spokesperson confirmed this to CNN.
Fallon apologized on Tuesday for touching a journalist knee over 10 years ago. Is it related? Is the resignation related? He had said in his
resignation letter that his behavior has fallen short of standards he'd set for himself.
So, let's get more now with our Diana Magnay. She's been following this story, and this comes, of course, within the context of allegations of
inappropriate behavior in parliament in the U.K.
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. There has been a flurry of allegations over the past few days and they have ranged from the not
particularly significant to the very extreme ends. This, though, is the first time that we have had someone as high profile as Michael Fallon
resigning.
He is, of course, the defense secretary always considered a safe pair of hands within the cabinet and with the governance of Theresa May. And what
happens over the last few days as we had an allegation from a journalist that 15 years ago, she had been with him at a dinner and he has been
touching her knee.
And so, she said if you do that again, I'll you punch in the face. She also said that she considered all this talk about sexual allegations that
has been swirling around Westminster is essentially a witch-hunt.
She said that both she and Michael Fallon had put this behind them, but given the fact that he has now decided to resign --
GORANI: And this is the journalist -- I want to let our viewers know. This is Julia Hartley Brewer. This is the journalist who said that Michael
Fallon touched her knee, but said that essentially after she told him to stop, he did, and everything is fine.
And by the way, she did tweet this after the news emerged that the Defense secretary had resigned, "Bloody hell, Sir Michael Fallon has just resigned
as Defense secretary." She added later, "Although I doubt my knee was the reason." So, could there be more here that we are going to learn
ultimately --
MAGNAY: Well, that is the question. You know, there may have been allegations made against him that we do not know that went to the Whips
office, where Theresa May felt compelled to act. We do not know. We probably won't know.
What he has said is that many of the allegations made against him have been false. Interesting that he says many, I think he is referring to all the
allegations that have been made against him in the last few days.
But he said that I accept that in the past I have fallen below the high standards that we require of the Armed Forces, and that is why he is
stepping down.
GORANI: All right. Diana Magnay, thanks very much with the breaking news that the Defense secretary in the U.K., Michael Fallon has resigned.
Thanks so much for that report.
Meanwhile, this hour, we want to bring you the very latest on the investigation into that deadly terrorist attack in New York. Tough talk
from the U.S. president, overshadowing some of those details.
Donald Trump is now vowing to get rid of a visa program, some of you may be familiar with, it's the visa program that's the Lottery Green Card Program.
And it is that very program that allowed the Uzbek aspect to enter the United States. Listen to the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm going to ask Congress to immediately initiate work to get rid of this program, diversity
lottery, diversity lottery sounds nice. It is not nice. It's not good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The president there pledging to go after what's called the Diversity Lottery Program. We know the suspect, the 29-year-old man from
Uzbekistan entered the United States back in 2010. Police say he'd been plotting the attack for a number of weeks and follow the ISIS playbook to a
"T," quote/unquote. Eight people were killed when the assailant drove down a bike path in Lower Manhattan Tuesday. Thirteen others were injured.
There are so many different threads to follow-up on here. I want to go to Athena Jones. She is live from outside the suspect's home in Patterson,
New Jersey, and Stephen Collison as well on the political beat in Washington. We'll get to Stephen in a moment. But Athena, what more are
we learning about the suspect?
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Hala. Well, first, I also want to tell you about today. We arrived here several hours ago. The street was
cordoned off as with the street nearby. There were at least a dozen FBI agents and other law-enforcement gathered outside at this red brick
building where Saipov lived with his wife and three children.
[16:05:04] They are carrying out various items, hard to identify those items at one point. We saw a couple of FBI agents coming out carrying a
large black garbage bag. They had their feet covered in blue booties as if to protect them from contaminating the scene that they were searching, the
residence they were searching.
We also saw items carried out that appeared to be in a document shape, perhaps a sack of documents and a larger item about 2 feet x 1.5 feet.
They have since opened up the street. There is still a police presence here.
But we have been talking to neighbors in this immediate vicinity. None of them said that they knew Saipov well, but they did say he was particularly
remarkable. One man described him as pleasant. A woman who lived two doors down said that she thinks they've been living here about a year,
maybe a little over a year.
And we also talked her neighbor in two building down, Carlos Batista, who described as Saipov as a peacemaker. He said that about six months back,
he, Carlos Batista, was riding his dirt bike, a motorbike, a loud motorbike late at night, two of Saipov's friends approached him and asked him to
quiet down, it was late.
Things got a little testy amongst them, and Saipov, this neighbor says step in, calmed things down, and was the peacemaker. So, some interesting
details we are learning about Saipov.
We know he has been talking with authorities and we also know that they had been interviewing his wife, who were told, is providing information. Still
a whole lot of facts to be discovered and worked out here -- Hala.
GORANI: His wife is in the United States or in Uzbekistan?
JONES: Our understanding is that she is here. I am not certain about where exactly this interview has been taking place. I can tell you that we
have not seen anyone enter or leave the apartment that is Saipov's in several hours now since that search earlier this morning.
We ourselves have knocked on the door. No one's answered instead we've been left talking to people nearby. As I mentioned, there is a woman a
couple of doors down, a young man two buildings down, and another neighbor who have been giving a sense of the neighborhood and a sense of what they
know about Saipov -- Hala.
GORANI: Just one more before I get to Stephen. Do we know if the suspect is conscious? We know he was operated on yesterday. Is he speaking with
investigators or that something we don't know yet?
JONES: What we do know, Hala, is that -- this is from my colleagues at -- who spoke with law enforcement that said that they did begin interviewing
Saipov last night before he underwent surgery and continued to talk to him after surgery.
I am not up to speed on whether he's had to do any additional surgeries or what his current state is, but as of this morning, we were told that he had
been speaking with authorities, one law-enforcement official described him as being somewhat cooperative.
But it's unclear exactly what he's told them and how they are reaching the conclusions that they are reaching over the course (inaudible) -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Athena Jones in Patterson, New Jersey, thanks very much. And of course, the question that investigators asked after each one
of these attacks, with their direct communication, with the group, was is it just inspired by material online, we'll get to the bottom of that as
investigators let us know more.
Stephen Collinson in Washington. So, the president of the United States pretty quickly reacted saying he wanted to shut down the Green Card
Diversity Lottery Program. It has been in place since 19 -- in the early 1990s or so. So, it quickly became political this attack in Washington.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: It certainly did. The president pounced on this very quickly. Now, he is saying that he wants to
shut down this green card lottery program. It's not clear he has the power to do that immediately.
The government does have the latitude about how immigration laws are implemented, but to end this program, it would take an act of Congress.
Something that Sarah Huckabee, the president's spokesman mentioned in her briefing a few moments ago.
And it's not that clear that Congress is able to act on anything specially to do with immigration as it's such a divisive issue. There was an attempt
to get rid of this program in a wider comprehensive immigration program about four years ago that passed the Senate, but it failed in the House.
So, you can see it is so difficult to change anything on immigration. So, I think the president at least can be somewhat frustrated if he is calling
for quick action after this attack.
GORANI: Yes. And 50,000 people or so are awarded these green cards annually. Sarah Huckabee Sanders had this to says asked by a journalist in
the briefing room just really a few minutes ago about the president's statement. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This is something that frankly the president has been talking about for a long time. This
isn't a new policy. This isn't a new position. This isn't a new conversation.
The president has been talking about extreme vetting and the need for that for the purpose of protecting the citizens of this country since he was a
candidate long before he was ever president.
[16:10:12] This isn't a new argument. This isn't a new position and this wasn't new for the president to speak about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. So again, we are hearing here sort of familiar themes that that support the idea that immigration is bad for the country. That
immigration is dangerous for the country, and it's something the president underlined again today.
COLLINSON: That's right. And that comment by Sarah Sanders was born out of a comment. A lot of people have been noticing that the president after
the Las Vegas shooting a month ago today, and members of his cabinet said it was too early to start talking about policy fixes, to make sure that
could not happen again.
They said it was disrespectful to the people killed. Of course, that's all about gun control. In this case, within a few hours of this attack in New
York, on Tuesday, the president was out talking about policy fixes that he said could stop this happening again in terms of changes in immigration
laws.
So that seemed like a clear double standard. Sarah Sanders was arguing that was not the case since he's been talking about immigration policy for
a long time. It does not really sort of stand the test of credibility.
But what does get to is, the fact that the president is using this for political reasons, he is venting. This is what he does after that attack.
It's not the normal way that a conventional president would react to something like this, calling for unity.
You know, this is the person who President Donald Trump is. He says the first thing that comes into his mind and I think he is talking to -- when
he talks about immigration laws. Today, he said that U.S. justice in terms of how terrorists are treated makes the U.S. like a laughing stock. He is
talking to a substantial portion of --
GORANI: But it's a joke, he said. He called it a joke.
All right. And also mentioned Guantanamo, which certainly is not the most popular thing abroad, popular American prison abroad. Thanks very much,
Stephen Collinson, live in Washington.
And speaking of Capitol Hill and what power it has and whether it would support the president, we'll have much more on Donald Trump's pledge to
terminate the Diversity Immigration Lottery. I'll reaction from a prominent American senator from the Democratic Party in the state of
Illinois, Dick Durbin still ahead.
Well, of course, we want to underline the fact that in the end, it is the victims that should get the most attention in this case. It was attack on
New York City, not just on New Yorkers, though. I was an attack on the city's international fabric.
And we now know that two of the victims were American men. One was a Belgian woman. Also among the dead a group of five Argentinians. Take a
look at this photo. Five of the men in this image, five of them were killed in the truck attack. It was taken before they travel to New York.
They were in Manhattan. They were going to go off to Boston after. That was the trip they had planned. They were in Manhattan to celebrate the
30th anniversary of their high school graduation and they took this picture before setting off to New York. It is actually heartbreaking.
But let's get back to the U.S. investigation and where it is going. CNN law enforcement analyst, James Gagliano, joins me from New York. You
worked as a supervisory Special Agent for the FBI. Thanks for being with us.
So, this was -- committed this act using a rented truck. We have seen a lot of these vehicle terrorist attacks in Europe. We saw one in Berlin, in
Nice, London Bridge as well. It happened a few weeks ago here in the U.K.
How do you police this, though? I mean, how do you try to prevent people with bad intentions from renting vehicles in the end?
JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, first, Hala, thanks for having me on and if the United States and Britain, our oldest ally needed
anything for common cause. You recall back in June, you just mentioned it to your point, the London Bridge attack, which was which was somewhat
similar to this one, what we are dealing with here.
And it involves obviously a vehicle, which it is very difficult to track. It is not like a does not like the same way that we track the sale now of
fertilizer and diesel fuel after some of the improvised explosive devices like in '95 in Oklahoma City.
It's very, very difficult. What are we doing? Well, the deputy commissioner for Counterterrorism Intelligence for the NYPD John Miller
stated today that this attack bore the classic, classic playbook of ISIS.
Now what we are trying to do from the law enforcement perspective in the United States so that's the NYPD and the JTTF, the Joint Terrorism Task
Force. It's headed by the FBI. We are trying to get to motives.
Now it is easy to understand this subject was a Jihadi. However, was he directed by ISIS, which would lead to a broader conspiracy? Was he
inspired by ISIS?
[16:15:08] We know he was radicalized here in the United States. Was it something that he saw a propaganda --
GORANI: It's what the governor said as well, which was interesting that he came to the U.S. and some of the people who knew him a few years ago, when
he came in through that lottery -- Green Card Lottery Program, said he was a normal guy when I met in 2010, 2011.
GAGLIANO: Absolutely. And that you move from directed by to inspired by to simply an aspirant, and an aspirant can be somebody that could just be a
copycat, somebody who saw, I saw this happen in London in June, I am going to do the same thing. It is a very rudimentary plan. It does not look
like he had assistance.
I mean, he obviously rented the vehicle from a Home Depot. He had some edged weapons in the vehicle. He clearly did not have any handguns. He
had a pellet gun and a paintball gun and what we've seen lately in this new paradigm, in this type of terrorist attack, is these folks are not looking
to negotiate.
They are not looking for a plane to Turks and Caicos. They are not looking to get some of their fellow jihadists out of jail. They are expecting to
die and that is why we believe he had the two pistols.
GORANI: Exactly. Because also in the United States, it's not that hard to buy a weapon if you set your mind to it. So, it's interesting that he
walked out with fake guns. What are investigators doing now because we heard from our Athena Jones in Patterson, New Jersey, where the suspect
lived.
They are obviously going to check his computer, his devices, talk to neighbors, talk to his family, at what stage are they now in the
investigation on day two?
GAGLIANO: OK. So, understand we are just over 25 hours into this investigation, so very preliminary. I think the police department as well
as the FBI stressed that. There are two different things that we are tracking right now.
We are tracking human intelligence. That human intelligence are the bystanders, the folks that might have taken video, cell phone videos of
this, or might have seen what happened, and the fortuitous set of circumstances, which was the fact that the subject did not die at the
scene.
He was shot in the abdomen by an NYPD police officer, but he went to surgery last night, and he has been talking. Now, we do not know if that
means cooperation. We also know the subject's wife, we believe is in Patterson, New Jersey, and has talked to police and the JTTF as well.
Again, we do not know if cooperation.
The second piece to your point is signal intelligence and that is the digital exhaust that comes off of every time this subject opened up his
laptop and Googles some site or went to some particular location or posted something on social media. So, that piece of it too will be part of the
harvesting of intelligence.
And between the signal intelligence and the human intelligence, we are hoping to get to an answer here to what actually was behind this total
piece.
GORANI: All right. Thanks for giving me the bigger picture here on what investigation, where it is heading, what is challenges are. James
Gagliano, thanks for joining us.
A lot more to come this evening. Executives from the world's top tech companies answer some tough questions from American senators on Russian
trolls. We'll bring you the highlights.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:20]
GORANI: A hundred and fifty million, this is how many people Facebook now says were reached by Russian trolls, who created manipulative content on
social media to try to potentially disrupt the 2016 election.
Facebook's chief lawyer revealed a new significantly higher number when drilled by American senators with lawyers from Twitter and Google also
present, and as they all admitted, they still have a lot to learn about the scale of the problem.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK WARNER, VICE CHAIRMAN, U.S. SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Do you believe that any of your companies have identified the full scope of
Russian active measures on your platform, yes or no?
COLIN STRETCH, VICE PRESIDENT AND GENERAL COUNSEL, FACEBOOK: Senator, our investigation continues so I would have to say no, certainly not with
certainty.
WARNER: (Inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we are still working on this.
WARNER: Mr. Walker.
KENT WALKER, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT AND GENERAL COUNSEL, GOOGLE: We have done a comprehensive investigation, but as Mr. Stretch says these are
ongoing issues and we continue to investigate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, our senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter, joins me from New York. So, Brian, in just the space of a few weeks, we have gone from
no real influence to maybe a few millions and now 120 million to 150 million people saw these troll account and these invitations to events that
were designed to sow chaos, and still we don't know how much further it could go.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, and even of most of those folks never actually clicked on the links or acted on the information
that exposure number 150 million people that could have been exposed to it by scrolling to their newsfeed is an extraordinary number.
It is pretty much the number of people actually voted in the American election and as we know it only took a small number of people to change
their minds about a candidate in order to sway the result.
These companies have still not reached the bottom. They say they are continuing to dig, to find out how much Russian meddling there was on their
networks. But it is remarkable that almost a year to the day after election day, Facebook, Google and Twitter still do not know everything
that went on.
GORANI: OK. But what do you do? I mean, does Congress legislate this? Do you expect Facebook and Twitter to self-police? I mean, this is just
the very beginning of a long conversation here.
STELTER: Yes. There is talk on Capitol Hill about a law that would regulate online political ads. This goes so much deeper than political
ads. These are not -- these were not ads that said President Trump, you know, should be elected. These were much more insidious.
This kind of fake news content. This propaganda is very hard to detect. It seems to me, the companies have more to do and they know it. We have
heard admissions from the lawyers today that they have to do more.
But the lawmakers up there also have to learn more about how these technologies actually work. I think there are a lot of people that are
behind the eight ball on this. Both in Silicon Valley, but also in Washington.
GORANI: All right. Brian Stelter, as always, thanks so much for joining us.
Paul Manafort and Rick Gates are due back in court tomorrow after being charged by the special counsel overseeing the Russia investigation. The
former Trump campaign officials are currently under house arrest, and now we know why investigators consider them such a big flight risk.
Court documents show Manafort has three American passports, each with a different number. He traveled this year using a phone and e-mail account
registered under a fake name. Investigators say both Manafort and Gates have substantial ties abroad to wealthy oligarchs.
The charges they face concern dealings with a pro-Russia political party in Ukraine and the president of Ukraine at the time, Viktor Yanukovych, who
now lives in Russia.
We are also learning new details about George Papadopoulos, another man named in a separate indictment. The former Trump campaign advisor who has
pleaded guilty to lying about his Russia contacts.
Sources say Papadopoulos did not attend just one meeting as the White House has said, one foreign policy meeting during the Trump campaign but two.
Court documents describe one meeting was in fact attended by Donald Trump. Papadopoulos offered to use his Russia connections to arrange a meeting
between Mr. Trump and Vladimir Putin.
Now the Papadopoulos plea is a clear sign that Special Counsel Robert Mueller is on the hunt for possible collusion as he investigates Russian
interference in the election.
We are joined by someone very familiar with these kinds of investigations, CNN legal analyst, Michael Zeldin, once worked with Robert Mueller at the
Department of Justice. Thanks for being with us.
So, based on these latest moves and what we are learning in the last 24, 48 hrs. Where do you think -- what do you think the overall strategy here is,
Robert Mueller's overall strategy?
[16:25:10] MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So I think his overall strategy is to go after anyone who he feels has information that relates to
any of the various work streams that are within his mandate, and those include the Russia collusion, matters which may have arisen out of the
collusion, matters which may still arise out of the occlusion, and obstruction of justice. So, he is going to be pursuing each of them
vigorously.
GORANI: And -- but we are learning -- I mean, we have -- with George Papadopoulos, for instance, that for several weeks, in fact, months, he was
speaking. This was not -- this cut field. Why do you think it was cut field? Because some of the theories out there that he was possibly wearing
a wire and gathering information for the investigation.
ZELDIN: That is the most logical law enforcement theory and I think is probably correct, which is he was found to be a liar. They confronted him
with his lies. He acknowledged his lies. They said to him, look, you can go to jail for five years or you can cooperate with us and your sentencing
guideline will drop from five years to zero to six months, and so he accepted that deal.
And they said here is -- here are their conditions, we need you to help us get information that we cannot otherwise get. That is generally oral
testimony, and that is generally acquired by communications between Papadopoulos and other people.
GORANI: And do you think that based on this, the Mueller investigation is talking to others and other sealed cases. Is it possible will discover
this down the line?
ZELDIN: What we know is that in the plea of Papadopoulos, Mueller's team said to the court, this is one small part of a larger investigation so that
gives us a hint that this is a larger investigation.
Secondly, in the documents where Papadopoulos also pleaded guilty and entered a statement of facts, they say in it that they have presented
enough evidence to -- for the court to accept the guilty plea, but that they are not presenting all of the evidence they have already acquired
through or because of Papadopoulos.
And that they are only revealing now what they need to reveal for the court to legally be able to accept a plea of guilty. So, that tells us that this
is a broader matter than we know about and that probably there are others either similarly situated to Papadopoulos who are cooperating, or who they
want to cooperate.
GORANI: And what's the ultimate goal with Manafort and Gates, for instance? Is it to get to others to, to use them for more information in
order to advance investigation? Is some of that an end in itself? What do you think?
ZELDIN: So, I think there are two things. One is these guys, Manafort and Gates have engaged in a 10-year conspiracy to launder money and to evade
taxes and to lie about the source of their funds. No prosecutor is going to tolerate that.
And so, they are charged with that and if they are convicted, they'll go to jail for a decade or more. However, if Manafort or Gates has information
that is relevant to other aspects of the mandate specifically, a conspiracy to violate the election laws or interfere with the election.
That I expect Mueller will say to them, look, you can go to jail for 10 or 11 years, or you can cooperate with us in some way and we can perhaps find
a way to reduce that sentence.
For each of these guys have decisions to make if they have additional information, but we do not know whether they have any additional
information to cooperate with.
GORANI: Yes. Because all of these charges predate the election, but I was astonished at the amount of money that that investigators alleged was moved
around, laundered. How did that not attract the attention of investigators before? I mean, how is this only now coming to head for Manafort and
Gates?
ZELDIN: I think that in point of fact Manafort was under investigation for a while by various law enforcement agencies. So, I think that Mueller in
inherited an aspect of this investigation, but if you look at the pleadings -- the indictment, you'll see that this was a very sophisticated money-
laundering operation where they used secrecy jurisdictions, Seychelles, Grenadines, Cyprus.
They used nominee corporations where their names were disassociated from bank accounts. They moved monies through the U.S. and also Delaware,
nominee corporations where their names weren't associated.
So, it was sophisticated and complex and those are hard to find when you're working so many cases as the FBI is. So, testament to them they found it
at all.
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST, THE WORLD RIGHT NOW: Michael Zeldin, thanks very much. Really appreciate your time on CNN.
ZELDIN: Anytime. Thank you.
GORANI: We'll be right back after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Let's get back to one of our top stories, the investigation into Tuesday's deadly terror attack in New York. We learned more today about
the suspect's background. We know he's from the Central Asian nation of Uzbekistan.
Nick Paton Walsh investigates the country's connection to terrorism and ISIS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Radicalized domestically, associated with ISIS, left Uzbekistan seven years
ago.
So, why is his distant home whose president offered Donald Trump help by "all forces and means necessary" in the spotlight at all?
Because Uzbekistan sits at crossroads between ISIS' recruiting grounds and its targets. Troubled Central Asia, its verdant Fergana Valley spanning
three nations of many poor and angry, home to either failing or brutally repressive states.
Uzbekistan is the latter where 16 years ago Washington overlooked reports of a state boiling their political opponents, so they could open a vital
airbase for Afghanistan operations.
Since then, radicalism has spread, especially under despotic Islam Karimov, fueled by anger, a daily repression and poverty. Afghanistan's endless was
too close not to bleed radicalism over the border. Yet Uzbeks traveled further to carry out their jihad, making up the ranks of many extremist and
then ISIS brigades in Iraq and Syria.
Many died there as ISIS lost ground. One Uzbek man killing four in an April truck attack in Stockholm and another killing over 30 in the Istanbul
Reina nightclub attack. Both in the name of ISIS, both brutal and both by Uzbeks.
It's still unclear what links, if any, Saipov retains with homeland, but it has long been clear the radicalism borne of repression in his homeland has
traveled far and wide.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Our terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank is here with me. So, we discussed the tactics, the truck - and by the way, I think we have video,
Paul, of the truck being kind of towed away from the scene of the attack in lower Manhattan, if we could show our viewers that. It's not ready yet,
but we'll get that to them when it is.
Let's talk about the tactics. So, it's straight out of the ISIS "playbook." And there is the video by the way.
[16:35:06] PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Yes, a vehicle attack. They've been calling for these vehicle attacks. Their sympathizers in the
West have been carrying out these vehicle attacks. I mean, Nice, Berlin, Barcelona, twice in London, Stockholm, there was another attack in the
United States - Columbus, Ohio - last year.
And we're going to see more of these kind of attacks. ISIS thinks it's very cheap form of terrorism, very difficult to defend against. And if
people are going to go out and just hire a car or drive their own car, how on earth can law enforcement know they are up to something.
And so, they are putting out very specific guidance for how to do this. And, in fact, there was an ISIS publication that went out about a year ago
with some very specific instructions, including writing a message, saying that ISIS is going to endure forever.
Well, that's exactly what the attacker did. It would appear, he read that very same publication then. It's just a few clicks away on the Internet.
GORANI: So, I mean, the question everyone asks after one of these attacks, was he inspired, was he directed, did he want to copycat other vehicle
attacks on innocent civilians? I mean, do we have any more clarity on that?
CRUICKSHANK: We don't. And ISIS haven't come up with a claim of responsibility yet. If they do, should we even treat it seriously after
they absurdity claimed the Las Vegas attack, Hala.
One possibility is that he could have been in touch with a group like ISIS using encrypted apps, getting some sort of coaching, some guidance. We've
seen that in a number of these terrorism plots and attacks on the United States.
GORANI: But the New York governor has said something interesting. He was radicalized, he said, in the United States, which presumably means - I
mean, you can self-radicalize online, I guess. But, I mean, chances are, you at least have friends or some sort of contacts with people who push you
in that direction.
CRUICKSHANK: And we now know that he did. We now know that he was in the periphery of a number of investigations that the FBI and others were
putting together, that he had friends/contacts who were being investigated when his name at the time cropped up, though he wasn't himself the subject
of an investigation.
But it would appear that he moved in a somewhat radical circle. We're going to obviously find out a lot more about what the FBI knew, when they
knew in the days ahead.
GORANI: Paul Cruickshank, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
Coming up, my interview with legendary actress Vanessa Redgrave, who accuses Europe of willfully breaking international law. She's always been
outspoken. She's directed a movie on the refugee crisis and she will joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Let's get more now on our top story. The British Defence Secretary Michael Fallon. Fallon apologized on Tuesday for touching a
journalist's knee over ten years ago. He wrote a resignation letter.
[15:40:05] But in the last few minutes, he has released a video statement. Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL FALLON, BRITISH DEFENSE SECRETARY: In recent days, allegation have been made about MPs' conduct, including my own. Many of these allegations
have been false. But I realize that, in the past, I may have fallen below the high standards that we require of the Armed Forces that I have the
honor to represent. I have reflected now on my position in government and I'm therefore resigning as Defense Secretary.
It has been a privilege to have served as defense secretary for the last three-and-a-half. I have the utmost admiration for the courage, the
professionalism and the service of the men and women who keep this country safe. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: In the last few minutes, we have heard from Prime Minister May. In a letter, she said, "I appreciate the characteristically serious manner
in which you have considered your position and the particular example you wish to set to servicemen and women and others." That is the latest from
the resignation of Michael Fallon.
Now, on to this. She has been captivating audiences on stage and screen for 60 years, with an Oscar, an Emmy, a Tony, and two Golden Globes to her
name. Vanessa Redgrave has, at the age of 80, chosen this moment in her life to make her directorial debut.
Her film, "Sea Sorrow", documents the plight of refugees fleeing to Europe. It was screened at this year's Cannes Film Festival. I sat down with
Redgrave and began by asking her, what drove her to make the film.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VANESSA REDGRAVE, ACTRESSS: What absolutely spurred, like could not spend every penny and work as hard as possible after seeing what happened to the
little baby, that little baby who ended up on the paddle shores of Bodrum, which is a resort where very rich people go yachts.
GORANI: Alan Kurdi.
REDGRAVE: The little Kurdish boy and his mum died and his brother died, drowned. Although they've been trying to escape from Kobani and I was so
outraged, I consider the European Union - this may sound dramatic, I don't intend it to be because it's just a fact - the European Union has been and
is breaking international law on the question of the protection of the right of refugees to asylum.
There's a United Nation convention of 1951 and they're breaking that. And they're doing even worse than that. They're paying countries to help keep
the refugees out of Europe.
GORANI: So, you're saying countries are willfully breaking international and humanitarian law.
REDGRAVE: Yes, they are willful. And that's one of the reasons why, as well as interviewing Alf Dubs, who you know so well, because of what
happened to Jewish refugees in the 1930s where Britain specifically refused visas. One or two got to because people work so hard.
GORANI: And Alf Dubs was one of them.
REDGRAVE: And he was a kinder transport, yes.
GORANI: It may show a clip from the movie "Sea Sorrow" that features Ray Fiennes and then I'll have you comment on it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RALPH FIENNES, ACTOR: They hurried us aboard a bark, Bore us some leagues to sea, where they prepared A rotten carcass of a butt, not rigged, Nor tackle, sail, nor mast. The very rats Instinctively had quit it. There they hoist us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How came we ashore?
FIENNES: By providence, divine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: I find that very clever because it's from "The Tempest," but under Ray Fiennes' delivery of this particular section of it are scenes of
modern-day refugees.
REDGRAVE: Because earlier in the film, we see the poor guys and ladies and little children stampeding to get out of a rubber boat that's going to
sink.
GORANI: Yes.
REDGRAVE: Probably you know the latest figures there. They are terrifying, of how many have drowned in the Mediterranean because of the
European Union.
GORANI: Can I ask you - imagine yourself, you're 80. This is the first time you have directed a film. What still gives you this kind of passion
for what you, obviously, perceive as appalling injustice?
[16:45:04] REDGRAVE: It's always been inside me. I am a war child. And I explain that in the film.
(SIRENS BLARING)
REDGRAVE: So, we were evacuated. I and my brother was about a year old. Two relatives of my mother's family, up in Hertfordshire, far away from
London. There, we were reckoned to be safe.
Today, we would be called internally displaced persons. The words didn't exist at that time. So, we were refugees in our own country.
GORANI: And you have always, your whole life, had a passion for activism, for being politically engaged as well as for being the legendary actress
that you are. And you have kept those two running in parallel your whole life.
REDGRAVE: Yes, basically engaged - yes, I consider that campaigning for human rights is not politics. It's got to come first, about politics and
before politics. But that is the mantra of the United Nations. Children come before politics.
For me, who rushed into a sea, to rescue a drowning girl when I was 14 years old, it's as basic as that.
GORANI: Right.
REDGRAVE: I can't rush into the sea anymore.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Vanessa Redgrave. "Sea Sorrow" is the movie she directed. In fact, her son produced it. So, it was a family affair.
Don't forget, you can check out our Facebook page, Facebook.com/HalaGoraniCNN. All real news on there. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: A matter of hours after the terror attack at Manhattan, President Trump got political on Twitter where he said, " The terrorist came into our
country through what is called the "Diversity Visa Lottery Program," a Chuck Schumer beauty. I want merit based."
Indeed, as he heard earlier, he called for that visa lottery to end and the Democratic Senate Leader Chuck Schumer referenced in that tweet did not
hold back when he lambasted the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK SCHUMER, SENATE MINORITY LEADER: The president ought to stop tweeting and start leading. The American people long for leadership, not
divisiveness, not finger-pointing, not name-calling. This is a tragedy. It's less than a day than after it occurred. And he can't refrain from his
nasty divisive habits.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And, of course, in the Trump administration, when people are asked about, for instance, gun control policy or remember they said it's too
early, we need to respect the victims, too early to talk about policy change.
New York Mayor Bill de Blasio has been outspoken since the attack. Here is some of what he told CNN earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK MAYOR: - the FBI, by the NYPD, and all of our partners to determine exactly who this man is, what moved him to this
horrible act, what's going on, is there any bigger ramification? That's what we should be focused on.
But look, in the end, the last thing we should do is start casting aspersions on whole races of people, or whole religions, or whole nations.
That only makes the situation worse.
The bottom line is we - anyone who wants to come to this country should be very thoroughly vetted as an individual. But the minute you start
generalizing it, especially to a whole religion, then, unfortunately, we're sending the exact negative message that a lot of our enemies want sent,
that the terrorists want to affirm that this nation is somehow anti-Muslim.
[15:50: 19] We are adjusting every time. We are going to make an adjustment here, too. We're going to decide some places that need
additional hardening.
We don't have the illusion that we can be everywhere all the time, but we do know we can keep improving our defenses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Bill de Blasio, the mayor of New York. Well, of course, eyewitnesses, it was New York City after all, there were many people
around, they've been sharing their accounts of the attack. Here's part of Anderson Cooper's interview with Ruben Cabrera who, in fact, shot video of
the scene. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, AC360: When did you realize something was happening?
RUBEN CABRERA, EYEWITNESS: I was sitting in front of BMCC, the basketball court over that. I was sitting out there. I heard several gunshots. I
want to say about six overall. I knew something was wrong.
At first, I saw kids running away, laughing. So, I thought maybe it was a joke. It's Halloween. Something is going on. But something inside me
knew it was more than just the fact that I - I've heard a gunshot before.
So, me and my cousin started walking over to see what was going on. And there's a - I guess you'd call it overcast over the West Side highway and
we walked up there. And from up there, I could see a total pickup truck, another man laying down the ground as BMS was trying to help him.
COOPER: He was one of the bicyclists.
CABRERA: I don't know what he was. He wasn't in the bicycle lane. He was on the opposite side of the bicycle lane.
So, I saw them trying to help him. And then, when I look over to the other side of the bicycle lane, I saw two people laying down the floor, covered
with sheets. And their bicycles (INAUDIBLE) what appeared to be like their bicycles were run over because you could see that they weren't right. You
can see something hit the bicycle.
COOPER: The vehicle itself, and I know you took the video, which is obviously smashed in in the front, did you ever see the person get out of
the vehicle or the person who had been driving?
CABRERA: No. By the time I got there, it was pretty much - I guess I would say the aftermath because the shots were already paused, everything
was stunned by the time I got there. The police responded.
It took me maybe two, three minutes to walk over there. The police was already on the scene.
COOPER: You're a criminal justice student. You're going to the college down here to study that. To actually see this up close, what is it like?
CABRERA: It's different. I have never seen something of this magnitude happen. I mean, I've heard of shootings, but I've never actually seen one.
And to see one and to see how our firefighters, BMS, NYPD responded is just amazing.
It was so quick. I was half a block away. And there was already fire trucks, ambulance, car parked already there on the scene. It took me three
minutes just to walk down there. Two or three minutes.
COOPER: Does it make you frightened?
CABRERA: No. Because I know I live in New York City where, unfortunately this happened, maybe not here in this section, but this happened all over
New York. I've lived here my whole life, 23 years.
COOPER: Life goes on.
CABRERA: It's started to happen. I don't know the people who were killed or injured. I hope the people who are injured do well. But it's
unfortunate and it happens in New York way too often.
COOPER: Well, thank you very much for talking to us. Appreciate it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Interesting interview there, Anderson Cooper on the - this was yesterday, just really a few hours after the attack from a New York City
resident.
World leaders have been sending well wishes and condolences to New York. That includes the former President Barack Obama who tweeted, "Michele and I
are thinking of the victims of today's attack in New York City and everyone who keeps us safe. New Yorkers are as tough as they come."
The French President Emmanuel Macron tweeted, "I convey my emotion and the solidarity of friends for New York City in the US. Our fight for freedom
unites us more than ever. #Manhattan"
The Australian foreign minister urged her citizens to reach out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIE BISHOP, AUSTRALIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: If you're worried about friends or relatives or loved ones in New York, please make sure you try to contact
them. And if you are unable to do so, then call our Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade hotline.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, the London Mayor Sadiq Khan tweeted, "London stands in grief and solidarity with the great city of New York City." We know he was on the
receiving ends of some tweets by Donald Trump criticizing his response.
While Barcelona's mayor wrote, "On behalf of the city of Barcelona, we send our solidarity and support to New York, our sister city. We must stand
together. #CitiesForPeace" And as you know, of course, Barcelona too was the victim of a vehicle terrorist attack a few weeks ago.
Attack using trucks and cars have become disturbingly common in the last few years in the US and in Europe. Here is Gary Tuchman with a look at
some of them. And we should warn you, some of the images are graphic.
[15:55:09] GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bastille Day in France, just last year. A fireworks display had just ended in Nice.
A terrorist, a Tunisian national, driving his rented truck, strikes and kills 86 people as he plows through pedestrians at a high-speed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had a choice to either jump to my right or jump to my left because the truck was swerving. So, I had to make a decision which
way to jump. I decided to jump to my left and thank God I did because if I didn't I would've been dead.
TUCHMAN: More than with 400 people were hurt in the 2016 attack. The terrorist was shot and killed. Nice was the deadliest of recent vehicle
terror attacks, but there've been many more.
An August of this year, 13 people died, about 100 hurt in Barcelona. A van plowed through a crowd of people in a popular tourist area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw it plow into the merchant, the pedestrians. I saw people flying over the vehicle. Just flying all around the vehicle.
And it's just a really, really horrific scene of immediate carnage.
TUCHMAN: Two suspects are arrested, but the driver gets away and has never been caught. ISIS claims responsibility for the attack.
In Berlin, Germany, six days before last Christmas, a tractor-trailer barrels into a Christmas market, killing 12 people. A manhunt ensues for
the driver who got away. Four days after the attack, the Tunisian man is shot and killed. ISIS later releases a video of the man pledging
allegiance to the terrorist group.
London has had three separate attacks this year, including two in Junes. Twelve people in total were killed in those attacks that took place along
the Westminster Bridge, the London Bridge and outside a mosque.
There have been previous vehicle attacks in the United States too. Back in 2006, at the University of North Carolina, nine people are hurt when a man
drives an SUV into an area crowded with students. The driver who was convicted of attempted murder said it was retribution for Muslims being
killed overseas.
Ten years later, in 2016, 11 people were injured at Ohio State University when a student carried out a car and knife attack.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard the chaos, shouts, screams, shots.
TUCHMAN: At Ohio State campus, police officers shot and killed the attacker who police believe was inspired by ISIS.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: We promised an interview with Illinois Senator Dick Durbin in the program. He was held up in a meeting. We're going to reschedule that
interview and bring that to you as soon as we can.
I'm Hala Gorani. "Quest Means Business" is up next. Stay with CNN.
END
